College bound Question/ For Valerie and All
Angela
Hi,
I have a sil who schools at home. She is on the road to becoming more
relaxed as time goes by. She has even decided that it might not be a big
deal if her kids do not get a diploma and that college will still work out
for them without one. Her biggest fear is that they will not learn to write
a decent paper or get enough English to survive college.
I asked her if she had any of her own high school papers and she did. She
said they were atrocious, yet she got B's on them. I told her to look at
them and expect that that is how an average student wrote a paper in that
grade if she got B's. Anyway, my other thought was for her to give her
children's papers to me or another adult who like to read and write to have
them go over them and point out where the child could improve in his/her
writing. And, that as long as the child is improving she shouldn't worry.
I also mentioned that it is much easier to write about something you love or
are very interested in, instead of a prescribed topic. I was wondering if
an of you have any other thoughts or words of wisdom for her to help quell
her fears. Esp. those of you who have children who have been through the
high school years unschooling. Her kids are 7th and 8th grade right now and
she is thinking about giving them high school courses and letting them work
through them at their own pace, as she has heard that most of jr. high is
repetition of what they learned in grade school. Her kids are very bright
and I don't think this would be too difficult for them.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play is our
brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
I have a sil who schools at home. She is on the road to becoming more
relaxed as time goes by. She has even decided that it might not be a big
deal if her kids do not get a diploma and that college will still work out
for them without one. Her biggest fear is that they will not learn to write
a decent paper or get enough English to survive college.
I asked her if she had any of her own high school papers and she did. She
said they were atrocious, yet she got B's on them. I told her to look at
them and expect that that is how an average student wrote a paper in that
grade if she got B's. Anyway, my other thought was for her to give her
children's papers to me or another adult who like to read and write to have
them go over them and point out where the child could improve in his/her
writing. And, that as long as the child is improving she shouldn't worry.
I also mentioned that it is much easier to write about something you love or
are very interested in, instead of a prescribed topic. I was wondering if
an of you have any other thoughts or words of wisdom for her to help quell
her fears. Esp. those of you who have children who have been through the
high school years unschooling. Her kids are 7th and 8th grade right now and
she is thinking about giving them high school courses and letting them work
through them at their own pace, as she has heard that most of jr. high is
repetition of what they learned in grade school. Her kids are very bright
and I don't think this would be too difficult for them.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play is our
brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Valerie
She has even decided that it might not be a big
and she had something to say. She was never assigned a project to
write about. She read voraciously and learned how to articulate on
paper from her reading. Looking for signs of improvement in a child's
writing is missing the joy of the writing itself. If the child wants
another adult to read and criticize the writing then that would be
fine. Writing is very personal and to pass someone else's writing on
for corrections is rather rude in my opinion.
Laurie now writes at every opportunity. All of her papers for classes
have received excellent marks. I feel that is because she loves to
write. Writing was always something for HER pleasure, not something
to be judged by me or anyone else. She has decided to write a
response to my book showing her side of being raised in the
unschooling lifestyle.
Relaxing and trusting your child to learn what they need. There's no
better way.
Valerie
> deal if her kids do not get a diploma and that college will stillwork out
> for them without one. Her biggest fear is that they will not learnto write
> a decent paper or get enough English to survive college.Laurie wrote poems, stories and essays whenever the mood struck her
and she had something to say. She was never assigned a project to
write about. She read voraciously and learned how to articulate on
paper from her reading. Looking for signs of improvement in a child's
writing is missing the joy of the writing itself. If the child wants
another adult to read and criticize the writing then that would be
fine. Writing is very personal and to pass someone else's writing on
for corrections is rather rude in my opinion.
Laurie now writes at every opportunity. All of her papers for classes
have received excellent marks. I feel that is because she loves to
write. Writing was always something for HER pleasure, not something
to be judged by me or anyone else. She has decided to write a
response to my book showing her side of being raised in the
unschooling lifestyle.
Relaxing and trusting your child to learn what they need. There's no
better way.
Valerie
[email protected]
Angela,
I get so caught up in my writing at times that I forget to say what I
really wanted to say. :-)
When Laurie went to register for college they told her she needed a
GED. I said, "No, she doesn't. She was homeschooled. Please sign her
up for the college entrance exam." They looked perplexed at me but
did as I said. I think 'acting' like I knew what I was talking about
helped.
She had never seen a textbook or taken a test before the college
entrance exam. No curriculum, no grades, no workbooks...just did as
she pleased. She scored in the top 10% overall, top 5% in English and
Reading.
Soooooo glad that she didn't waste 12 years sitting in a desk in
school!
Valerie
I get so caught up in my writing at times that I forget to say what I
really wanted to say. :-)
When Laurie went to register for college they told her she needed a
GED. I said, "No, she doesn't. She was homeschooled. Please sign her
up for the college entrance exam." They looked perplexed at me but
did as I said. I think 'acting' like I knew what I was talking about
helped.
She had never seen a textbook or taken a test before the college
entrance exam. No curriculum, no grades, no workbooks...just did as
she pleased. She scored in the top 10% overall, top 5% in English and
Reading.
Soooooo glad that she didn't waste 12 years sitting in a desk in
school!
Valerie
Angela
Personally, I agree with you 100 percent Valerie. Unfortunately my sil
hasn't quite come around to the unschooling philosophy. I was looking for
something that will help her in the path she is on. Maybe some stories like
your own where your daughter did well in college but wasn't forced to write
at home or some other more relaxed approach other than curriculum driven
like she is now. My sil doesn't feel like she is a good writer therefore
she doesn't feel qualified to assess her children's work. I am afraid her
children will always be assessed because she doesn't feel comfortable any
other way. It would be nice to ease her mind though and help her to relax
and let the learning happen.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play is our
brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Laurie wrote poems, stories and essays whenever the mood struck her
and she had something to say. She was never assigned a project to
write about. She read voraciously and learned how to articulate on
paper from her reading. Looking for signs of improvement in a child's
writing is missing the joy of the writing itself. If the child wants
another adult to read and criticize the writing then that would be
fine. Writing is very personal and to pass someone else's writing on
for corrections is rather rude in my opinion.
Laurie now writes at every opportunity. All of her papers for classes
have received excellent marks. I feel that is because she loves to
write. Writing was always something for HER pleasure, not something
to be judged by me or anyone else. She has decided to write a
response to my book showing her side of being raised in the
unschooling lifestyle.
Relaxing and trusting your child to learn what they need. There's no
better way.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hasn't quite come around to the unschooling philosophy. I was looking for
something that will help her in the path she is on. Maybe some stories like
your own where your daughter did well in college but wasn't forced to write
at home or some other more relaxed approach other than curriculum driven
like she is now. My sil doesn't feel like she is a good writer therefore
she doesn't feel qualified to assess her children's work. I am afraid her
children will always be assessed because she doesn't feel comfortable any
other way. It would be nice to ease her mind though and help her to relax
and let the learning happen.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play is our
brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Laurie wrote poems, stories and essays whenever the mood struck her
and she had something to say. She was never assigned a project to
write about. She read voraciously and learned how to articulate on
paper from her reading. Looking for signs of improvement in a child's
writing is missing the joy of the writing itself. If the child wants
another adult to read and criticize the writing then that would be
fine. Writing is very personal and to pass someone else's writing on
for corrections is rather rude in my opinion.
Laurie now writes at every opportunity. All of her papers for classes
have received excellent marks. I feel that is because she loves to
write. Writing was always something for HER pleasure, not something
to be judged by me or anyone else. She has decided to write a
response to my book showing her side of being raised in the
unschooling lifestyle.
Relaxing and trusting your child to learn what they need. There's no
better way.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
As I said, Laurie was never forced to write as a child. She wrote
when and if she felt like it. She taught herself to type and was soon
typing 75 words a minute. We think differently when we type as
opposed to how we think when we are using pen and paper. Does your
sil let the kids use the computer/typewriter?
I had no confidence in my writing skills until I began college at age
43. I soon found out I was fairly good at writing, but mainly I found
out that writing is my passion. Laurie's writing surpasses mine by a
long shot. She has never made a B on a paper, only A's. She LOVES to
write and I think it is because she was never forced. (She is editing
my book by the way). :-)
I am not sure why what we did worked so well. She loves algebra,
statistics, biology, theatre, English...all of it. I have to believe
that is was because she was always free to choose what she learned.
She chose to go to college, she chooses her courses, etc.
Does your sil ever write for fun? If so, she could compare how she
feels about her writing when it's for fun as opposed to when she has
to write something to the insurance company or something like that.
I know how you feel. I wish I could get everyone to realize how much
stress is put upon kids and adults by needlessly forcing them to do
something that they have no interest in. Laurie absolutely detested
math and could not understand the simplest of procedures. She would
ask me to show her how to do simple multiplication, but she would be
frustrated in minutes and we'd put it aside. I knew she'd learn math
when the time was right for HER. Once she began college, she went
into the remedial college math courses and made all 100's BECAUSE she
wanted to do well. She is now in her third statistics course and NO
statistics were required for her major. She just loves it! Her
professor told me, "Laurie is quite gifted in math."
I'll keep thinking about this and see if I can remember any
incidences in particular about writing. Oh, when she did write as a
child and made errors, I never told her. She found them all herself
later. Now her friends call her Ms. Dictionary and she's a
grammatical wiz.
Valerie
when and if she felt like it. She taught herself to type and was soon
typing 75 words a minute. We think differently when we type as
opposed to how we think when we are using pen and paper. Does your
sil let the kids use the computer/typewriter?
I had no confidence in my writing skills until I began college at age
43. I soon found out I was fairly good at writing, but mainly I found
out that writing is my passion. Laurie's writing surpasses mine by a
long shot. She has never made a B on a paper, only A's. She LOVES to
write and I think it is because she was never forced. (She is editing
my book by the way). :-)
I am not sure why what we did worked so well. She loves algebra,
statistics, biology, theatre, English...all of it. I have to believe
that is was because she was always free to choose what she learned.
She chose to go to college, she chooses her courses, etc.
Does your sil ever write for fun? If so, she could compare how she
feels about her writing when it's for fun as opposed to when she has
to write something to the insurance company or something like that.
I know how you feel. I wish I could get everyone to realize how much
stress is put upon kids and adults by needlessly forcing them to do
something that they have no interest in. Laurie absolutely detested
math and could not understand the simplest of procedures. She would
ask me to show her how to do simple multiplication, but she would be
frustrated in minutes and we'd put it aside. I knew she'd learn math
when the time was right for HER. Once she began college, she went
into the remedial college math courses and made all 100's BECAUSE she
wanted to do well. She is now in her third statistics course and NO
statistics were required for her major. She just loves it! Her
professor told me, "Laurie is quite gifted in math."
I'll keep thinking about this and see if I can remember any
incidences in particular about writing. Oh, when she did write as a
child and made errors, I never told her. She found them all herself
later. Now her friends call her Ms. Dictionary and she's a
grammatical wiz.
Valerie
Angela
Unfortunately my sil is not the type who has any other passion than for her
children. She is a very good friend, but not one who stimulates my mind
with deep conversation. She is the most sincere person I know and would do
anything for me, but she does not read for pleasure or write for pleasure
and has no hobbies that she has time for (or makes time for) with 5 children
from ages 10 months-13 years. She is not someone who reads about
unschooling and goes "Wow! that makes sense!" Her two oldest children were
in school until two years ago and she is not yet out of the schooled frame
of mind. (Even though she thought public school was a waste of time) I
never stop telling her about unschooling and how much my children are
learning naturally, but I think she thinks it is just because my children
are gifted and wouldn't necessarily work for her children, though they are
very bright. Her children hate to sit and do their work and I don't think
she can see past that fact to the point where if it were NOT forced they
would learn because they would love to and would follow their own interests
and that in that course of life, they would learn all they need to. For me
it is so obvious. I mean after reading about unschooling, I thought, "Well,
that was really obvious, I wonder why I didn't discover it on my own! There
is no other path that I could take and still be following my heart!" None
the less, she is very worried about their English. She is considering
hiring a tutor when they begin freshman English. Her son is an avid reader.
That boy always has a book in his hand. (not a curriculum book though) I
keep telling her that with all his reading he will just know if something
sounds right or not. When I read what I have written aloud, I can tell when
it doesn't read smoothly and I change it. I just wish I could help her to
understand unschooling more.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play
is our brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 5:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie and
All
As I said, Laurie was never forced to write as a child. She wrote
when and if she felt like it. She taught herself to type and was soon
typing 75 words a minute. We think differently when we type as
opposed to how we think when we are using pen and paper. Does your
sil let the kids use the computer/typewriter?
I had no confidence in my writing skills until I began college at age
43. I soon found out I was fairly good at writing, but mainly I found
out that writing is my passion. Laurie's writing surpasses mine by a
long shot. She has never made a B on a paper, only A's. She LOVES to
write and I think it is because she was never forced. (She is editing
my book by the way). :-)
I am not sure why what we did worked so well. She loves algebra,
statistics, biology, theatre, English...all of it. I have to believe
that is was because she was always free to choose what she learned.
She chose to go to college, she chooses her courses, etc.
Does your sil ever write for fun? If so, she could compare how she
feels about her writing when it's for fun as opposed to when she has
to write something to the insurance company or something like that.
I know how you feel. I wish I could get everyone to realize how much
stress is put upon kids and adults by needlessly forcing them to do
something that they have no interest in. Laurie absolutely detested
math and could not understand the simplest of procedures. She would
ask me to show her how to do simple multiplication, but she would be
frustrated in minutes and we'd put it aside. I knew she'd learn math
when the time was right for HER. Once she began college, she went
into the remedial college math courses and made all 100's BECAUSE she
wanted to do well. She is now in her third statistics course and NO
statistics were required for her major. She just loves it! Her
professor told me, "Laurie is quite gifted in math."
I'll keep thinking about this and see if I can remember any
incidences in particular about writing. Oh, when she did write as a
child and made errors, I never told her. She found them all herself
later. Now her friends call her Ms. Dictionary and she's a
grammatical wiz.
Valerie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children. She is a very good friend, but not one who stimulates my mind
with deep conversation. She is the most sincere person I know and would do
anything for me, but she does not read for pleasure or write for pleasure
and has no hobbies that she has time for (or makes time for) with 5 children
from ages 10 months-13 years. She is not someone who reads about
unschooling and goes "Wow! that makes sense!" Her two oldest children were
in school until two years ago and she is not yet out of the schooled frame
of mind. (Even though she thought public school was a waste of time) I
never stop telling her about unschooling and how much my children are
learning naturally, but I think she thinks it is just because my children
are gifted and wouldn't necessarily work for her children, though they are
very bright. Her children hate to sit and do their work and I don't think
she can see past that fact to the point where if it were NOT forced they
would learn because they would love to and would follow their own interests
and that in that course of life, they would learn all they need to. For me
it is so obvious. I mean after reading about unschooling, I thought, "Well,
that was really obvious, I wonder why I didn't discover it on my own! There
is no other path that I could take and still be following my heart!" None
the less, she is very worried about their English. She is considering
hiring a tutor when they begin freshman English. Her son is an avid reader.
That boy always has a book in his hand. (not a curriculum book though) I
keep telling her that with all his reading he will just know if something
sounds right or not. When I read what I have written aloud, I can tell when
it doesn't read smoothly and I change it. I just wish I could help her to
understand unschooling more.
Angela in Maine. Unschooling Mom to two beautiful daughters. "Play
is our brain's favorite way to learn." Unknown
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 5:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie and
All
As I said, Laurie was never forced to write as a child. She wrote
when and if she felt like it. She taught herself to type and was soon
typing 75 words a minute. We think differently when we type as
opposed to how we think when we are using pen and paper. Does your
sil let the kids use the computer/typewriter?
I had no confidence in my writing skills until I began college at age
43. I soon found out I was fairly good at writing, but mainly I found
out that writing is my passion. Laurie's writing surpasses mine by a
long shot. She has never made a B on a paper, only A's. She LOVES to
write and I think it is because she was never forced. (She is editing
my book by the way). :-)
I am not sure why what we did worked so well. She loves algebra,
statistics, biology, theatre, English...all of it. I have to believe
that is was because she was always free to choose what she learned.
She chose to go to college, she chooses her courses, etc.
Does your sil ever write for fun? If so, she could compare how she
feels about her writing when it's for fun as opposed to when she has
to write something to the insurance company or something like that.
I know how you feel. I wish I could get everyone to realize how much
stress is put upon kids and adults by needlessly forcing them to do
something that they have no interest in. Laurie absolutely detested
math and could not understand the simplest of procedures. She would
ask me to show her how to do simple multiplication, but she would be
frustrated in minutes and we'd put it aside. I knew she'd learn math
when the time was right for HER. Once she began college, she went
into the remedial college math courses and made all 100's BECAUSE she
wanted to do well. She is now in her third statistics course and NO
statistics were required for her major. She just loves it! Her
professor told me, "Laurie is quite gifted in math."
I'll keep thinking about this and see if I can remember any
incidences in particular about writing. Oh, when she did write as a
child and made errors, I never told her. She found them all herself
later. Now her friends call her Ms. Dictionary and she's a
grammatical wiz.
Valerie
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Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
I will reply tomorrow Angela...but wanted to get these websites to
you.
One is for Summerhill, a private free school in England. Summerhill
is the book that I read while still pregnant that decided Laurie's
childhood for me. If your sil could read this book, she would stop
all mandatory teaching. :-)
The other is for Sudbury Valley School. It was on 60 Minutes tonight.
I just talked to Laurie on the phone and she caught it. She almost
never watches television, so this was phenomenal.
Enjoy the sites if you haven't already seen them. There are other
Sudbury inspired schools that can be found in Yahoo search engine.
Take care,
Valerie
http://www.s-hill.demon.co.uk/index.htm
www.sudval.org
you.
One is for Summerhill, a private free school in England. Summerhill
is the book that I read while still pregnant that decided Laurie's
childhood for me. If your sil could read this book, she would stop
all mandatory teaching. :-)
The other is for Sudbury Valley School. It was on 60 Minutes tonight.
I just talked to Laurie on the phone and she caught it. She almost
never watches television, so this was phenomenal.
Enjoy the sites if you haven't already seen them. There are other
Sudbury inspired schools that can be found in Yahoo search engine.
Take care,
Valerie
http://www.s-hill.demon.co.uk/index.htm
www.sudval.org
[email protected]
In a message dated 04/30/2001 1:59:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!, valfitz@...
writes:
I don't think Morley "got it."
Oh well . . .
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> The other is for Sudbury Valley School. It was on 60 Minutes tonight.It was fun to see! It looked like our house with a lot more kids!!
> I just talked to Laurie on the phone and she caught it. She almost
> never watches television, so this was phenomenal.
>
>
I don't think Morley "got it."
Oh well . . .
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
I wish I had seen it. I've read about Sudbury for twenty years.
Laurie said, "They were just like you Mom."
Sad, but I don't think many people 'get it.'
Valerie
Laurie said, "They were just like you Mom."
Sad, but I don't think many people 'get it.'
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., marbleface@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04/30/2001 1:59:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
valfitz@y...
> writes:
>
>
> > The other is for Sudbury Valley School. It was on 60 Minutes
tonight.
> > I just talked to Laurie on the phone and she caught it. She
almost
> > never watches television, so this was phenomenal.
> >
> >
>
> It was fun to see! It looked like our house with a lot more kids!!
>
> I don't think Morley "got it."
>
> Oh well . . .
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew immediately
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
Jon and Rue Kream
I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn't
necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works, though. College
is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may convince
someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", it wouldn't
appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I would love a book
that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closer family -
maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends on your
target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew immediately
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
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necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works, though. College
is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may convince
someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", it wouldn't
appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I would love a book
that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closer family -
maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends on your
target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew immediately
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Kim Baker
--- Valerie <valfitz@...> wrote:
would be wonderful!!!!! :-)
=====
Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(10) Jacob(10) Noah(20 mos)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in herI think that a picture of your Daughter on the cover
> college cap and
> gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too
> pretentious?
>
> Valerie
would be wonderful!!!!! :-)
=====
Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(10) Jacob(10) Noah(20 mos)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
In a message dated 04/30/2001 9:45:19 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
azhom2000@... writes:
are not college-bound. It's not even the point of their unschooling. If
that, in fact, was/is the point of your daughter's story though, what the
heck do I know?
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
azhom2000@... writes:
> --- Valerie <valfitz@...> wrote:Not pretentious. Too limiting. Many kids are unschooling successfully and
> > We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her
> > college cap and
> > gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too
> > pretentious?
> >
> > Valerie
>
>
are not college-bound. It's not even the point of their unschooling. If
that, in fact, was/is the point of your daughter's story though, what the
heck do I know?
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hello,
I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the best
experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it should
be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to skeptics
that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as any
of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in the
very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly, I'm
having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
-Laurie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the best
experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it should
be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to skeptics
that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as any
of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in the
very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly, I'm
having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
-Laurie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
> I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn'tthough. College
> necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it mayconvince
> someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", itwouldn't
> appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I wouldlove a book
> that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closerfamily -
> maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends onyour
> target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
>
Valerie
Hi Rue,
College was not the intent of our unschooling either. I was taken
totally by surprise when she announced one day that she wanted to try
college. (I think it surprised her too)
Even though she is making a 4.0, that is not the point to me. The
point is that she loves to learn...in fact she is hungry to learn
everything that she can.
You are right that it might convince someone who doesn't believe in
unschooling. I'm wondering if this is the audience I SHOULD be
targeting. Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience.
One of the main points of my book is that parents and children can be
friends. It's as much the focus as the unschooling is. She and I have
been best of friends all of her life. In light of this, I think you
might be closer on target with a pic of the two of us on the cover.
I appreciate your feedback...you really got me to thinking! :-)
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
College was not the intent of our unschooling either. I was taken
totally by surprise when she announced one day that she wanted to try
college. (I think it surprised her too)
Even though she is making a 4.0, that is not the point to me. The
point is that she loves to learn...in fact she is hungry to learn
everything that she can.
You are right that it might convince someone who doesn't believe in
unschooling. I'm wondering if this is the audience I SHOULD be
targeting. Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience.
One of the main points of my book is that parents and children can be
friends. It's as much the focus as the unschooling is. She and I have
been best of friends all of her life. In light of this, I think you
might be closer on target with a pic of the two of us on the cover.
I appreciate your feedback...you really got me to thinking! :-)
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
> I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn'tthough. College
> necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it mayconvince
> someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", itwouldn't
> appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I wouldlove a book
> that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closerfamily -
> maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends onyour
> target audience :). Good luck ~RueValerie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@y...]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For
> and Allimmediately
>
>
> That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew
> that my child would never go through the torment of schools or ahttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> powertripping mom.
>
> There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
> or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
> just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
> really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
> my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
>
> If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
> the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
> secret.
>
> Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
> that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
> We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
> gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
>
> Valerie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Valerie
What about both of us Kim? I don't want to be too cutesy with the
title and pic though. HA! If you saw the two of us, cutesy would not
exactly come to mind!!!
Valerie
title and pic though. HA! If you saw the two of us, cutesy would not
exactly come to mind!!!
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kim Baker <azhom2000@y...> wrote:
> --- Valerie <valfitz@y...> wrote:
> > We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her
> > college cap and
> > gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too
> > pretentious?
> >
> > Valerie
>
> I think that a picture of your Daughter on the cover
> would be wonderful!!!!! :-)
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(10) Jacob(10) Noah(20 mos)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., marbleface@a... wrote:
is too limiting. I personally did not enjoy college, except for the
classes I attended with Laurie. Those were a hoot! I loved college
for the comraderie with her, not for the actual classes.
See letter to Rue...
> In a message dated 04/30/2001 9:45:19 PM !!!First Boot!!!,successfully and
> azhom2000@y... writes:
>
>
> > --- Valerie <valfitz@y...> wrote:
> > > We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her
> > > college cap and
> > > gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too
> > > pretentious?
> > >
> > > Valerie
> >
> >
>
> Not pretentious. Too limiting. Many kids are unschooling
> are not college-bound. It's not even the point of theirunschooling. If
> that, in fact, was/is the point of your daughter's story though,what the
> heck do I know?Nance, I have a feeling that you know plenty. :-) You're right. It
>
> Nance
is too limiting. I personally did not enjoy college, except for the
classes I attended with Laurie. Those were a hoot! I loved college
for the comraderie with her, not for the actual classes.
See letter to Rue...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
LAURIE!!!! I'm grinning like a total idiot here... or is this just
a 'mom' kinda look?
Unschooling Parents....meet Laurie... proof that what we are doing is
the right thing to do.
Valerie
a 'mom' kinda look?
Unschooling Parents....meet Laurie... proof that what we are doing is
the right thing to do.
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., nikleba@y... wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
> should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the
best
> experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
> picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it should
> be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to skeptics
> that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
>
> It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian
traditions
> of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
> unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
> College.
>
> I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as any
> of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
> there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in the
> very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly,
I'm
> having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
>
> Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
>
> If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
>
> -Laurie
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
> wrote:
> > I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn't
> > necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> though. College
> > is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may
> convince
> > someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", it
> wouldn't
> > appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I would
> love a book
> > that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a
closer
> family -
> > maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends on
> your
> > target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
> >
[email protected]
sigh... put down some pillows so it won't hurt when I get knocked
off of my pedestal. :)
off of my pedestal. :)
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Valerie" <valfitz@y...> wrote:
> LAURIE!!!! I'm grinning like a total idiot here... or is this just
> a 'mom' kinda look?
>
> Unschooling Parents....meet Laurie... proof that what we are doing
is
> the right thing to do.
>
> Valerie
>
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., nikleba@y... wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
> > should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the
> best
> > experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
> > picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it
should
> > be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to
skeptics
> > that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
> >
> > It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian
> traditions
> > of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
> > unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone
respects:
> > College.
> >
> > I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as
any
> > of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
> > there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in
the
> > very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly,
> I'm
> > having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
> >
> > Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
> >
> > If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
> >
> > -Laurie
> >
> > --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@m...>
> > wrote:
> > > I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I
wouldn't
> > > necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> > though. College
> > > is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may
> > convince
> > > someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work",
it
> > wouldn't
> > > appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I
would
> > love a book
> > > that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a
> closer
> > family -
> > > maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends
on
> > your
> > > target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
> > >
Angela
Valerie and Anyone following this,
I spent the day with my sil today. I think I actually made some head way,
but it isn't going to hit her like a ton of bricks like it did us, from
reading one book. I printed out what you and others said, including letters
from another list and I brought them to her to read. We discussed some of
her fears and talked about how the kids will learn what they need to learn
and even if they get to college and don't know how to write a paper at
first, that they will learn because first year English in college is all
about how to write papers correctly.
While I was there, her son was doing his math. He was finding common
denominators and since he understood how to get the answer it was all busy
work. I suggested he use a calculator and after asking his mom she said yes
it was ok. Boy, I just saved a whole tree from being scrap paper not to
mention the time it was taking him to do the basic math. I asked her why
she doesn't let him skip the busywork and she said he likes it. I didn't
get a chance to ask him if he would do it if he didn't feel like he had to.
Maybe next visit. I am going to lend her my "Teenage Liberation Handbook"
as soon as I get it back from another person I lent it to.
I have a hard time trying to convince someone to do anything. I don't want
to hurt people's feelings because I feel that by promoting what I believe in
so strongly, I am criticizing what they are already doing. I don't mind
giving examples of what works for us, but my kids are only 4 and 6 and so
she can't relate with her 12 and 13 year olds. She did say today, that she
can't wait to have one kid grown up and on his way so that she can see how
it all ends. She is very afraid of screwing them up for life. Personally,
I think sending them to school could screw them up for life. I AM making
head way, but the reward is slow in coming. She is a person who listens to
what is said and spends a lot of time mulling it over, so there is not
instant gratification for me. This summer we will spend a lot of time
together camping and maybe I can talk some more. She isn't a big reader so
I can't just give her a bunch of books to read and discuss them with her.
Wish me luck.
Angela
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie and
All
That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew immediately
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I spent the day with my sil today. I think I actually made some head way,
but it isn't going to hit her like a ton of bricks like it did us, from
reading one book. I printed out what you and others said, including letters
from another list and I brought them to her to read. We discussed some of
her fears and talked about how the kids will learn what they need to learn
and even if they get to college and don't know how to write a paper at
first, that they will learn because first year English in college is all
about how to write papers correctly.
While I was there, her son was doing his math. He was finding common
denominators and since he understood how to get the answer it was all busy
work. I suggested he use a calculator and after asking his mom she said yes
it was ok. Boy, I just saved a whole tree from being scrap paper not to
mention the time it was taking him to do the basic math. I asked her why
she doesn't let him skip the busywork and she said he likes it. I didn't
get a chance to ask him if he would do it if he didn't feel like he had to.
Maybe next visit. I am going to lend her my "Teenage Liberation Handbook"
as soon as I get it back from another person I lent it to.
I have a hard time trying to convince someone to do anything. I don't want
to hurt people's feelings because I feel that by promoting what I believe in
so strongly, I am criticizing what they are already doing. I don't mind
giving examples of what works for us, but my kids are only 4 and 6 and so
she can't relate with her 12 and 13 year olds. She did say today, that she
can't wait to have one kid grown up and on his way so that she can see how
it all ends. She is very afraid of screwing them up for life. Personally,
I think sending them to school could screw them up for life. I AM making
head way, but the reward is slow in coming. She is a person who listens to
what is said and spends a lot of time mulling it over, so there is not
instant gratification for me. This summer we will spend a lot of time
together camping and maybe I can talk some more. She isn't a big reader so
I can't just give her a bunch of books to read and discuss them with her.
Wish me luck.
Angela
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie and
All
That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew immediately
that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
powertripping mom.
There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
secret.
Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
Valerie
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/30/01 3:23:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
valfitz@... writes:
<< Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience. >>
I think it might be good to kind of reel in some unbelievers or even
those who are just kind of unsure by sharing the point that your daughter is
doing so well in college, which is THEIR idea of success. From there, you
can always go into some of the ideas that our society has about success and
explain that college wasn't the point or goal of unschooling, that it is a
good path for Laurie right now but we all have to find our own best match
(sadly, few people do in our regimented society).
Lucy
valfitz@... writes:
<< Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience. >>
I think it might be good to kind of reel in some unbelievers or even
those who are just kind of unsure by sharing the point that your daughter is
doing so well in college, which is THEIR idea of success. From there, you
can always go into some of the ideas that our society has about success and
explain that college wasn't the point or goal of unschooling, that it is a
good path for Laurie right now but we all have to find our own best match
(sadly, few people do in our regimented society).
Lucy
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/30/01 3:15:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nikleba@... writes:
<< It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
list. I can see the logic of what you're saying here. Glad you've had such
a great life so far and that you're still having one...
Lucy
nikleba@... writes:
<< It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
>>Welcome, Laurie! I'm so glad that you and your mom have joined the
list. I can see the logic of what you're saying here. Glad you've had such
a great life so far and that you're still having one...
Lucy
Valerie
fluffing up the pillows... (hey, don't judge me guys...she'll be
fluffing MY pillows when I'm a rich and famous author)
fluffing MY pillows when I'm a rich and famous author)
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., nikleba@y... wrote:
> sigh... put down some pillows so it won't hurt when I get knocked
> off of my pedestal. :)
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Valerie" <valfitz@y...> wrote:
> > LAURIE!!!! I'm grinning like a total idiot here... or is this
just
> > a 'mom' kinda look?
> >
> > Unschooling Parents....meet Laurie... proof that what we are
doing
> is
> > the right thing to do.
> >
> > Valerie
> >
> >
> > --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., nikleba@y... wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
> > > should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the
> > best
> > > experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and
gown
> > > picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it
> should
> > > be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to
> skeptics
> > > that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can
do.
> > >
> > > It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian
> > traditions
> > > of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
> > > unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone
> respects:
> > > College.
> > >
> > > I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as
> any
> > > of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to
get
> > > there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in
> the
> > > very top academic percentile at my college, but more
importantly,
> > I'm
> > > having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
> > >
> > > Not to mention the great relationship with my mom,
Valerie... :)
> > >
> > > If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
> > >
> > > -Laurie
> > >
> > > --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream"
> <skreams@m...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I
> wouldn't
> > > > necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> > > though. College
> > > > is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may
> > > convince
> > > > someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it
can "work",
> it
> > > wouldn't
> > > > appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I
> would
> > > love a book
> > > > that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a
> > closer
> > > family -
> > > > maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it
depends
> on
> > > your
> > > > target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
> > > >
Jon and Rue Kream
I for one would love to get my hands on a book geared towards those of us
who are unschooling now. It would be nice to hear how it all ends up (not
that 21 is "done") and what the whole ride was like for the parent and the
child. The only books I've found have been about extraordinary children
doing extraordinary things, and seem to be trying to prove that
home/unschooling breeds genius. A book that tells the story of parents and
children sharing their lives would be great, and I'd love to be able to pass
it to my friends and family and say, this is what we're doing, this is why
we do it. It's so hard to explain to people when you're in the middle of
it. As for the title, I like Tacoma Val's (how do you like your new
nickname?) An Unschooled Life. ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
Hi Rue,
College was not the intent of our unschooling either. I was taken
totally by surprise when she announced one day that she wanted to try
college. (I think it surprised her too)
Even though she is making a 4.0, that is not the point to me. The
point is that she loves to learn...in fact she is hungry to learn
everything that she can.
You are right that it might convince someone who doesn't believe in
unschooling. I'm wondering if this is the audience I SHOULD be
targeting. Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience.
One of the main points of my book is that parents and children can be
friends. It's as much the focus as the unschooling is. She and I have
been best of friends all of her life. In light of this, I think you
might be closer on target with a pic of the two of us on the cover.
I appreciate your feedback...you really got me to thinking! :-)
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
who are unschooling now. It would be nice to hear how it all ends up (not
that 21 is "done") and what the whole ride was like for the parent and the
child. The only books I've found have been about extraordinary children
doing extraordinary things, and seem to be trying to prove that
home/unschooling breeds genius. A book that tells the story of parents and
children sharing their lives would be great, and I'd love to be able to pass
it to my friends and family and say, this is what we're doing, this is why
we do it. It's so hard to explain to people when you're in the middle of
it. As for the title, I like Tacoma Val's (how do you like your new
nickname?) An Unschooled Life. ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
Hi Rue,
College was not the intent of our unschooling either. I was taken
totally by surprise when she announced one day that she wanted to try
college. (I think it surprised her too)
Even though she is making a 4.0, that is not the point to me. The
point is that she loves to learn...in fact she is hungry to learn
everything that she can.
You are right that it might convince someone who doesn't believe in
unschooling. I'm wondering if this is the audience I SHOULD be
targeting. Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
experience.
One of the main points of my book is that parents and children can be
friends. It's as much the focus as the unschooling is. She and I have
been best of friends all of her life. In light of this, I think you
might be closer on target with a pic of the two of us on the cover.
I appreciate your feedback...you really got me to thinking! :-)
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
> I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn'tthough. College
> necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it mayconvince
> someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", itwouldn't
> appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I wouldlove a book
> that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closerfamily -
> maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends onyour
> target audience :). Good luck ~RueValerie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@y...]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For
> and Allimmediately
>
>
> That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew
> that my child would never go through the torment of schools or ahttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> powertripping mom.
>
> There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe you
> or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe it's
> just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool? Get
> really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to promote
> my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
>
> If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading is
> the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such a
> secret.
>
> Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see proof
> that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the book.
> We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap and
> gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
>
> Valerie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Jon and Rue Kream
If my kids can say that they're having great fun doing what they want I will
be a very happy mom ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: nikleba@... [mailto:nikleba@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
Hello,
I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the best
experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it should
be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to skeptics
that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as any
of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in the
very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly, I'm
having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
-Laurie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
be a very happy mom ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: nikleba@... [mailto:nikleba@...]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For Valerie
and All
Hello,
I am Laurie, Valerie's daughter. I agree with you that college
should not be a universal goal, although it has been one of the best
experiences of my life. I do believe that while the cap and gown
picture probably shouldn't be on the cover of Mom's book, it should
be included somewhere because it's very tangible proof to skeptics
that an unschooled kid can do anything that a schooled kid can do.
It's going to be hard for us to subvert the authoritarian traditions
of childrearing, and it can only help to have examples of
unschoolers' successes in an area that virtually everyone respects:
College.
I am so glad that I was unschooled. My life is just as rich as any
of my peers', and I didn't have to go through K-12 school to get
there. I didn't even get a high school equivalency and I'm in the
very top academic percentile at my college, but more importantly, I'm
having great fun doing what I want. Pretty sweet deal.
Not to mention the great relationship with my mom, Valerie... :)
If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to ask.
-Laurie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
> I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn'tthough. College
> necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it mayconvince
> someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", itwouldn't
> appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I wouldlove a book
> that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closerfamily -
> maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends onyour
> target audience :). Good luck ~RueMessage boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Valerie Stewart
As for the title, I like Tacoma Val's (how do you like your new
nickname?) An Unschooled Life. ~Rue
***Hey Rue...I've missed you. We'll have to e privately (it will extend my
creative avoidance of taxes). I like An Unschooled Life because it implies
that unschooling is lifelong and because it throws "unschooling" into the
common language. (I hope)
Valerie in Tacoma
PS You know I hate nicknames, you troublemaker.
nickname?) An Unschooled Life. ~Rue
***Hey Rue...I've missed you. We'll have to e privately (it will extend my
creative avoidance of taxes). I like An Unschooled Life because it implies
that unschooling is lifelong and because it throws "unschooling" into the
common language. (I hope)
Valerie in Tacoma
PS You know I hate nicknames, you troublemaker.
Valerie
Thanks Lucy! I have already written about college being society's
idea of success. I even stated that it was secretly something I
wanted for Laurie, thinking that she would need it to be successful.
I later changed my mind (before she started college) and made that
point also.
Valerie
idea of success. I even stated that it was secretly something I
wanted for Laurie, thinking that she would need it to be successful.
I later changed my mind (before she started college) and made that
point also.
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., LASaliger@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/30/01 3:23:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> valfitz@y... writes:
>
> << Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
> the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
> and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
> experience. >>
>
> I think it might be good to kind of reel in some unbelievers
or even
> those who are just kind of unsure by sharing the point that your
daughter is
> doing so well in college, which is THEIR idea of success. From
there, you
> can always go into some of the ideas that our society has about
success and
> explain that college wasn't the point or goal of unschooling, that
it is a
> good path for Laurie right now but we all have to find our own best
match
> (sadly, few people do in our regimented society).
>
> Lucy
Valerie
Hi Angela,
I do wish you good luck in convincing your sil...for the sake of her
kids. Maybe you could print out a few of Laurie's posts from today
and show her? Just the intelligent one...not the smart aleck ones. ;-)
I was exactly the same way you were when Laurie was young. I was
afraid of offending others when I told about the unschooling. As she
got a bit older, I decided this shouldn't be a secret. I still used a
bit of diplomacy though, especially with my sister who is a school
teacher. She now has two young boys and told me that she is sometimes
afraid of letting me down because of the conventional childhood her
boys are having. She's a great mom, but VERY stressed and uptight
with herself.
School doesn't screw up your entire life...I managed to straighten
mine out in less than thirty years! :-)
Valerie
PS.. Laurie might be willing to share some of her writings... She's
quite blunt in her papers, so you might want to discuss which topics
would be appropriate for your sil to read.
I do wish you good luck in convincing your sil...for the sake of her
kids. Maybe you could print out a few of Laurie's posts from today
and show her? Just the intelligent one...not the smart aleck ones. ;-)
I was exactly the same way you were when Laurie was young. I was
afraid of offending others when I told about the unschooling. As she
got a bit older, I decided this shouldn't be a secret. I still used a
bit of diplomacy though, especially with my sister who is a school
teacher. She now has two young boys and told me that she is sometimes
afraid of letting me down because of the conventional childhood her
boys are having. She's a great mom, but VERY stressed and uptight
with herself.
School doesn't screw up your entire life...I managed to straighten
mine out in less than thirty years! :-)
Valerie
PS.. Laurie might be willing to share some of her writings... She's
quite blunt in her papers, so you might want to discuss which topics
would be appropriate for your sil to read.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Angela" <unschooling@c...> wrote:
> Valerie and Anyone following this,
> I spent the day with my sil today. I think I actually made some
head way,
> but it isn't going to hit her like a ton of bricks like it did us,
from
> reading one book. I printed out what you and others said,
including letters
> from another list and I brought them to her to read. We discussed
some of
> her fears and talked about how the kids will learn what they need
to learn
> and even if they get to college and don't know how to write a paper
at
> first, that they will learn because first year English in college
is all
> about how to write papers correctly.
>
> While I was there, her son was doing his math. He was finding
common
> denominators and since he understood how to get the answer it was
all busy
> work. I suggested he use a calculator and after asking his mom she
said yes
> it was ok. Boy, I just saved a whole tree from being scrap paper
not to
> mention the time it was taking him to do the basic math. I asked
her why
> she doesn't let him skip the busywork and she said he likes it. I
didn't
> get a chance to ask him if he would do it if he didn't feel like he
had to.
> Maybe next visit. I am going to lend her my "Teenage Liberation
Handbook"
> as soon as I get it back from another person I lent it to.
>
> I have a hard time trying to convince someone to do anything. I
don't want
> to hurt people's feelings because I feel that by promoting what I
believe in
> so strongly, I am criticizing what they are already doing. I don't
mind
> giving examples of what works for us, but my kids are only 4 and 6
and so
> she can't relate with her 12 and 13 year olds. She did say today,
that she
> can't wait to have one kid grown up and on his way so that she can
see how
> it all ends. She is very afraid of screwing them up for life.
Personally,
> I think sending them to school could screw them up for life. I
AM making
> head way, but the reward is slow in coming. She is a person who
listens to
> what is said and spends a lot of time mulling it over, so there is
not
> instant gratification for me. This summer we will spend a lot of
time
> together camping and maybe I can talk some more. She isn't a big
reader so
> I can't just give her a bunch of books to read and discuss them
with her.
> Wish me luck.
>
> Angela
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@y...]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For
Valerie and
> All
>
>
> That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew
immediately
> that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
> powertripping mom.
>
> There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe
you
> or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybe
it's
> just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool?
Get
> really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me to
promote
> my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)
>
> If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading
is
> the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not such
a
> secret.
>
> Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see
proof
> that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with the
book.
> We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college cap
and
> gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?
>
> Valerie
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> Maybe next visit. I am going to lend her my "Teenage LiberationHandbook"
> as soon as I get it back from another person I lent it to.*Don't lend it to her, lend it to her son. Well, it's just a
suggestion. It might work out better that way...
Melanie in Indiana
Valerie
Rue, I promise to do my best to give you what you want. This is
something I wanted when I was in the midst of unschooling too.
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
something I wanted when I was in the midst of unschooling too.
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
wrote:
> I for one would love to get my hands on a book geared towards thoseof us
> who are unschooling now. It would be nice to hear how it all endsup (not
> that 21 is "done") and what the whole ride was like for the parentand the
> child. The only books I've found have been about extraordinarychildren
> doing extraordinary things, and seem to be trying to prove thatparents and
> home/unschooling breeds genius. A book that tells the story of
> children sharing their lives would be great, and I'd love to beable to pass
> it to my friends and family and say, this is what we're doing, thisis why
> we do it. It's so hard to explain to people when you're in themiddle of
> it. As for the title, I like Tacoma Val's (how do you like your newValerie
> nickname?) An Unschooled Life. ~Rue
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@y...]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 6:22 PM
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For
> and Alltry
>
>
> Hi Rue,
>
> College was not the intent of our unschooling either. I was taken
> totally by surprise when she announced one day that she wanted to
> college. (I think it surprised her too)be
> Even though she is making a 4.0, that is not the point to me. The
> point is that she loves to learn...in fact she is hungry to learn
> everything that she can.
>
> You are right that it might convince someone who doesn't believe in
> unschooling. I'm wondering if this is the audience I SHOULD be
> targeting. Do I preach to the believers or the nonbelievers? I want
> the unbelievers to know that anything is possible with unschooling
> and college is the one thing that the naysayers doubted in my
> experience.
>
> One of the main points of my book is that parents and children can
> friends. It's as much the focus as the unschooling is. She and Ihave
> been best of friends all of her life. In light of this, I think youyou
> might be closer on target with a pic of the two of us on the cover.
>
> I appreciate your feedback...you really got me to thinking! :-)
>
> Valerie
>
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jon and Rue Kream" <skreams@m...>
> wrote:
> > I would love to read a book about a grown unschooler. I wouldn't
> > necessarily use the cap and gown as evidence that it works,
> though. College
> > is not the goal of our unschooling journey. So while it may
> convince
> > someone who doesn't believe in unschooling that it can "work", it
> wouldn't
> > appeal to me as someone who is already living the life. I would
> love a book
> > that shows that unschooling makes for a happier house and a closer
> family -
> > maybe a picture of you and your daughter. I guess it depends on
> your
> > target audience :). Good luck ~Rue
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Valerie [mailto:valfitz@y...]
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:34 PM
> > To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: College bound Question/ For
> Valerie
> > and All
> >
> >
> > That's the same way it hit me. I read Summerhill and knew
> immediately
> > that my child would never go through the torment of schools or a
> > powertripping mom.
> >
> > There is a reason that your sil hasn't seen the light yet. Maybe
> > or all of us have something to learn from these people??? Maybeit's
> > just a chance for you to practice convincing others to unschool?Get
> > really good at it so you can go on the Oprah show with me topromote
> > my book!!! (I'm dreaming now)is
> >
> > If her son reads, he'll do great with essays in college. Reading
> > the secret to learning, although for us unschoolers it's not sucha
> > secret.proof
> >
> > Hopefully my book will be out soon and she'll read it and see
> > that it works. That's what I truly hope to accomplish with thebook.
> > We're thinking about putting a pic of Laurie in her college capand
> > gown on the cover. What do ya think? Too pretentious?http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > Valerie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to