Valerie

Hi Fellow Unschoolers,


As the subject stated, my daughter Laurie was unschooled from birth.
She is now a senior in college with a 4.0 and absolutely loves
learning. I am in the process of writing a book about her life and
it's going quite well I might add. I'm hoping to send it to a
publisher within a month.

I am new to this group. I just thought I'd see what the buzz is on
unschooling these days. I haven't really kept up with it for the past
ten years. I just followed my instincts and let life proceed
naturally. I would be happy to answer questions for anyone who is
just getting started with unschooling or having any doubts.
Unschooling my daughter has been the best accomplishment of my life.
There was never a doubt in my mind that I was doing the right thing.

My daughter sent me the Time article yesterday. How wonderful that
the world is waking up to the benefits of this lifestyle.

Valerie

[email protected]

>
> I am new to this group. I just thought I'd see what the buzz is on
> unschooling these days. I haven't really kept up with it for the
past
> ten years. I just followed my instincts and let life proceed
> naturally. I would be happy to answer questions for anyone who is
> just getting started with unschooling or having any doubts.
> .

I for one would love to know how you *Unschooled* - what you did -
did you at any stage use workbooks or any structural learning. OH
there is so much I would like to know..........
What is the title of your book and when will it be on sale?

Marianne

Valerie

Hi Marianne,

You asked a perfect question. I used no workbooks or any structural
learning. Laurie was free to do as she chose at all times. My goal
was to let her instigate all of her learning. She had no rules except
that she could not hurt herself or anyone else. Everything else was
open to her. Most think this would lead to an irresponsible
undisciplined child. I found just the opposite to be true.
She 'studied' only what she wanted to study and therefore enjoyed the
process of learning. She is like a sponge; she hears something and
remembers it. We both attended college and had quite a few classes
together. I would study for 3-4 hours to get an A or a B; she would
glance at her notes thirty minutes before class and make A's, often
100's.

It's difficult for some to realize that they can put total faith and
trust in their child learning what they need to know as they need to
know it. We don't have to "teach" them a single thing.

We haven't named the book yet. We have ideas but nothing seems to
cover it all. It's about unschooling, parenting, and living a
lifestyle that would baffle many. I'm trying not to degrade schools
too much but instead raise unschooling to the pedestal it deserves to
be on. I will let you know when the book is for sale as soon as I
know myself.

Please feel free to ask anything.

Thanks, Valerie


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., tonitoni@z... wrote:
>
> >
> > I am new to this group. I just thought I'd see what the buzz is
on
> > unschooling these days. I haven't really kept up with it for the
> past
> > ten years. I just followed my instincts and let life proceed
> > naturally. I would be happy to answer questions for anyone who is
> > just getting started with unschooling or having any doubts.
> > .
>
> I for one would love to know how you *Unschooled* - what you did -
> did you at any stage use workbooks or any structural learning. OH
> there is so much I would like to know..........
> What is the title of your book and when will it be on sale?
>
> Marianne

[email protected]

>
> It's difficult for some to realize that they can put total faith
and
> trust in their child learning what they need to know as they need
to
> know it. We don't have to "teach" them a single thing.




Valerie
Is your daughter an only one? From your post I figured she is.
I have older children. All went to ps. But these children are much
older and have all left home now. Toni is the only one left at
home. She did go to school for 6 yrs. I find it very hard for her
to be motivated to do much at all. At the moment she is doing *work
experience*. Going to work with her dad most days!! She loves this
and so does he.
Did your dd find it hard being an only child. (I am presuming she is)
marianne

Valerie

> Valerie
> Is your daughter an only one? From your post I figured she is.
> I have older children. All went to ps. But these children are much
> older and have all left home now. Toni is the only one left at
> home. She did go to school for 6 yrs. I find it very hard for her
> to be motivated to do much at all. At the moment she is doing *work
> experience*. Going to work with her dad most days!! She loves
this
> and so does he.
> Did your dd find it hard being an only child. (I am presuming she
is)
> marianne

Marianne,

Yes, Laurie is my only child. I wanted more but it wasn't meant to
be. I did babysit other children the entire time she was growing up
though. We're still close with those kids. Laurie LOVED being an only
child. She was always content with a book or a computer and silence.
Laurie was seldom motivated to do much of anything. I thought she
might end up being totally without self-discipline, however I kept my
mouth shut and let her be. She is now one of the most self-
disciplined people I know. She does what needs doing, maintains her
own home, car, etc. She's never late for work or class; and always
has all of her work done ahead of time. Let Toni have fun (and her
dad). She knows what she needs at this time...trust her. :-)

Valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/01 10:58:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
valfitz@... writes:

<< I am in the process of writing a book about her life and
it's going quite well I might add. >>

Valerie, I loved all of your posts! Your book sounds wonderful and I'm
so glad to hear the experiences of someone who's gotten all the way to
adulthood with unschooling. My son is about to turn 17 and my other four
boys are younger than him so I'm getting close to seeing my first one reach
adulthood. He took the California high school proficiency test on Saturday
so that he could just start taking whatever community college classes he
feels like without having to worry about getting some school to sign off
giving permission (a requirement of some CA community colleges for kids under
18 without diplomas or the equivalent).
I can relate to some of what you said about going it alone with your
unschooling because the homeschool groups didn't agree with your approach. I
am glad that we have been fortunate enough lately to meet some like-minded
homeschoolers. Your move to Canada sounds interesting! We have talked about
moving to Canada ourselves at times but aren't sure if it would be a good
idea because we can't get residency and so our kids wouldn't be able to get
jobs there later on. I wouldn't want them to have to leave an area they have
come to love because of that. I wish they still had the option of
homesteading in certain areas.
I look forward to reading your book when it comes out and I'm so glad
you've joined the group here!

Lucy

Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., LASaliger@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/29/01 10:58:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> valfitz@y... writes:
>
> << I am in the process of writing a book about her life and
> it's going quite well I might add. >>
>
> Valerie, I loved all of your posts! Your book sounds
wonderful and I'm
> so glad to hear the experiences of someone who's gotten all the way
to
> adulthood with unschooling. My son is about to turn 17 and my
other four
> boys are younger than him so I'm getting close to seeing my first
one reach
> adulthood. He took the California high school proficiency test on
Saturday
> so that he could just start taking whatever community college
classes he
> feels like without having to worry about getting some school to
sign off
> giving permission (a requirement of some CA community colleges for
kids under
> 18 without diplomas or the equivalent).
> I can relate to some of what you said about going it alone
with your
> unschooling because the homeschool groups didn't agree with your
approach. I
> am glad that we have been fortunate enough lately to meet some like-
minded
> homeschoolers. Your move to Canada sounds interesting! We have
talked about
> moving to Canada ourselves at times but aren't sure if it would be
a good
> idea because we can't get residency and so our kids wouldn't be
able to get
> jobs there later on. I wouldn't want them to have to leave an area
they have
> come to love because of that. I wish they still had the option of
> homesteading in certain areas.
> I look forward to reading your book when it comes out and I'm
so glad
> you've joined the group here!
>
> Lucy

Thank you so much Lucy. If you'd like to email me privately about
Canada, I'll reply.

Did most of you register your homes as private schools so that you
wouldn't have to deal with school boards?

Valerie

Vaughnde Edwards

no...fortunatly in montana we don't have to. It is up to you what your child wants to learn whether its homeschooling or unschooling. Time tells when they decide to go to college or not.

Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie <valfitz@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: My 21-year old daughter was unschooled all of her life


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., LASaliger@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/29/01 10:58:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> valfitz@y... writes:
>
> << I am in the process of writing a book about her life and
> it's going quite well I might add. >>
>
> Valerie, I loved all of your posts! Your book sounds
wonderful and I'm
> so glad to hear the experiences of someone who's gotten all the way
to
> adulthood with unschooling. My son is about to turn 17 and my
other four
> boys are younger than him so I'm getting close to seeing my first
one reach
> adulthood. He took the California high school proficiency test on
Saturday
> so that he could just start taking whatever community college
classes he
> feels like without having to worry about getting some school to
sign off
> giving permission (a requirement of some CA community colleges for
kids under
> 18 without diplomas or the equivalent).
> I can relate to some of what you said about going it alone
with your
> unschooling because the homeschool groups didn't agree with your
approach. I
> am glad that we have been fortunate enough lately to meet some like-
minded
> homeschoolers. Your move to Canada sounds interesting! We have
talked about
> moving to Canada ourselves at times but aren't sure if it would be
a good
> idea because we can't get residency and so our kids wouldn't be
able to get
> jobs there later on. I wouldn't want them to have to leave an area
they have
> come to love because of that. I wish they still had the option of
> homesteading in certain areas.
> I look forward to reading your book when it comes out and I'm
so glad
> you've joined the group here!
>
> Lucy

Thank you so much Lucy. If you'd like to email me privately about
Canada, I'll reply.

Did most of you register your homes as private schools so that you
wouldn't have to deal with school boards?

Valerie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> Yes, Laurie is my only child. I wanted more but it wasn't meant to
> be. I did babysit other children the entire time she was growing up
> though. We're still close with those kids. Laurie LOVED being an
only
> child.


I believe that toni enjoys being like an only child, most of the
time!!!
I am enjoying your posts. It is good to see posts from some one who
has *been there*. I belive that natural learning is the way to go -
i just have doubts occasionally that my dd will never learn another
thing!!

Personally I think Unschooling should be in the title of your book -
but not the cap and gown thing on the front. There are books out
there about h/s un/s geniusis - thats not the kind of book i want to
read. I want to read about ordinary people like myself and my dd.
Just my opinion.

Marianne - who hopes the book will be on sale in New Zealand too.

Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., tonitoni@z... wrote:
>
> > Yes, Laurie is my only child. I wanted more but it wasn't meant
to
> > be. I did babysit other children the entire time she was growing
up
> > though. We're still close with those kids. Laurie LOVED being an
> only
> > child.
>
>
> I believe that toni enjoys being like an only child, most of the
> time!!!
> I am enjoying your posts. It is good to see posts from some one who
> has *been there*. I belive that natural learning is the way to go -

> i just have doubts occasionally that my dd will never learn another
> thing!!
>
> Personally I think Unschooling should be in the title of your book -

> but not the cap and gown thing on the front. There are books out
> there about h/s un/s geniusis - thats not the kind of book i want
to
> read. I want to read about ordinary people like myself and my dd.
> Just my opinion.
>
> Marianne - who hopes the book will be on sale in New Zealand too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks Marianne, and if it doesn't go on sale in New Zealand, I'll
ship one to you. Toss those doubts out. She'll learn just what she
needs to when she needs to. :-)

That's the thing, we are ordinary people who discovered unschooling.
I don't think unschooled people CAN turn out any other way but
extraordinary though. You unschoolers with older children may have
noticed this. The thought processes of a totally unschooled child are
so logical. They don't have all of the bs in their minds from years
of sitting in a desk and doing busywork. I'm certainly no genius - I
was just blessed with a sil that gifted me with the book Summerhill.
I do think unschooling raises iq's. That's my opinion of course - not
a lot of research has been done on unschoolers. :-)

Valerie

[email protected]

<<You unschoolers with older children may have
noticed this. The thought processes of a totally unschooled child are
so logical. They don't have all of the bs in their minds from years
of sitting in a desk and doing busywork.>>

Absolutely! My dd and I were talking in the car today and her ability to
reason was blowing me away. We were discussing some fairly complex
issues and her processing of the information was keeping pace with mine.
It's a good thing *I'm* learning to unschool as well, she'd leave me in
the dust! LOL

Kris
________________________________________________________________
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Judie C. Rall

> Did most of you register your homes as private schools so that you
> wouldn't have to deal with school boards?
>
> Valerie
>

No, because according to the Oklahoma Constitution and state
statutes, the school board only has the authority to regulate public
schools. They have absolutely no authority to even come and
check to see if my kids are truant or not. It's one thing I love about
this state.


>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
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> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Judie

"Keep me away from the wisdom that does not cry,
the philosophy which does not laugh, and the greatness
which does not bow before children." -Kahlil Gibran

[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Valerie" <valfitz@y...> wrote:
> I don't think unschooled people CAN turn out any other way but
> extraordinary though. You unschoolers with older children may have
> noticed this. The thought processes of a totally unschooled child
are
> so logical. They don't have all of the bs in their minds from years
> of sitting in a desk and doing busywork. I'm certainly no genius -
I
> was just blessed with a sil that gifted me with the book
Summerhill.
> I do think unschooling raises iq's. That's my opinion of course -
not
> a lot of research has been done on unschoolers. :-)
>
> Valerie


We need more stories about unschoolers. When has it succeeded and
when has it failed? HAS it failed?

Every once in awhile, my best friend and I rehash some opinions. We
will forever disagree on some things, including abortion, country
music, and schooling. She has repeatedly told me that the only
reason my upbringing worked was because I was already so smart and
that ordinary children need structured learning and discipline. I
tell her that I'm ordinary and my unschooling worked because
unschooling works. I need to argue with her some more.

This is something that she is absolutely sure of because she is about
to graduate with a bachelor's in Special Education and has watched
her very opinionated mother raise nine other children besides her
(don't panic, eight of them were adopted).

I'm sure that part of her views on education come from her experience
with disabled children (the degree in Special Ed and the 8 special
needs adopted siblings). It's very widely understood that special
kids, especially those with autism, need structure much more than
regular kids. I'll grant that this is true until proven otherwise,
because I know of one autistic boy who is so routine-centered that he
gets upset if his father takes a different route while driving him to
his school or if his teacher deviates from the daily schedule.

Are there any parents of special needs kids in the group? I'm not
referring to dyslexia or ADD, but challenges like Down's Syndrome and
autism.

Valerie

Kris...the ultimate dustbowl... I started college when Laurie did and
we took several classes together. She left me so far behind that she
would stand in my bedroom door at night with her hands on her hips
and say, "Mom, have you done your homework?" (no kidding) and I would
reply sheepishly, "No, not yet." to which she replied, "You are SO
going to embarrass me if you fail." sigh.... :-)

At age seven, Laurie started quoting facts and numbers having to do
with the new prospective superstores. I asked her where she learned
that and she said, "It was in Time magazine." I said, "You read Time
magazine?" She said, "Well, it was the only thing in the bathroom."

Seriously though, she left me floundering in the dust so long ago.
You saw her post? Ms. Dictionary strikes again!

Valerie


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., louisam1@j... wrote:
> <<You unschoolers with older children may have
> noticed this. The thought processes of a totally unschooled child
are
> so logical. They don't have all of the bs in their minds from years
> of sitting in a desk and doing busywork.>>
>
> Absolutely! My dd and I were talking in the car today and her
ability to
> reason was blowing me away. We were discussing some fairly complex
> issues and her processing of the information was keeping pace with
mine.
> It's a good thing *I'm* learning to unschool as well, she'd leave
me in
> the dust! LOL
>
> Kris
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Valerie Stewart

I know of one autistic boy who is so routine-centered that he
gets upset if his father takes a different route while driving him to
his school or if his teacher deviates from the daily schedule.

***I thought this was a common symtom of autism.

Valerie in Tacoma

[email protected]

<<Seriously though, she left me floundering in the dust so long ago. >>

Valerie, I'm looking forward to the day, a confirmation in all I believe
about learning.

Kris
________________________________________________________________
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Valerie

I know what you mean Kris. I love it when she makes me look dumb. lol

Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., louisam1@j... wrote:
> <<Seriously though, she left me floundering in the dust so long
ago. >>
>
> Valerie, I'm looking forward to the day, a confirmation in all I
believe
> about learning.
>
> Kris
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Eileen M.

Yes, it is a common, though not universal symptom of
autism... I know a gal whose son refuses to
acknowledge that he knows her unless she is wearing a
particular *shirt*, gets very upset if she wears
anything else around him!

Eileen


--- Valerie Stewart <vlos@...> wrote:
> I know of one autistic boy who is so
> routine-centered that he
> gets upset if his father takes a different route
> while driving him to
> his school or if his teacher deviates from the daily
> schedule.
>
> ***I thought this was a common symtom of autism.
>
> Valerie in Tacoma
>


__________________________________________________
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Sarah Wheeler

Hey! I'm in Oklahoma too! :-) I've been lurking on here for a few weeks now, but was too shy to post. Where at in OK are you, Judie?

Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: Judie C. Rall
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: My 21-year old daughter was unschooled all of her life






> Did most of you register your homes as private schools so that you
> wouldn't have to deal with school boards?
>
> Valerie
>

No, because according to the Oklahoma Constitution and state
statutes, the school board only has the authority to regulate public
schools. They have absolutely no authority to even come and
check to see if my kids are truant or not. It's one thing I love about
this state.


>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Judie

"Keep me away from the wisdom that does not cry,
the philosophy which does not laugh, and the greatness
which does not bow before children." -Kahlil Gibran

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

So glad you decided to post...welcome!

love, Valerie


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Wheeler" <woobersmommy@y...>
wrote:
> Hey! I'm in Oklahoma too! :-) I've been lurking on here for a few
weeks now, but was too shy to post. Where at in OK are you, Judie?
>
> Sarah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Judie C. Rall
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: My 21-year old daughter was
unschooled all of her life
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Did most of you register your homes as private schools so that
you
> > wouldn't have to deal with school boards?
> >
> > Valerie
> >
>
> No, because according to the Oklahoma Constitution and state
> statutes, the school board only has the authority to regulate
public
> schools. They have absolutely no authority to even come and
> check to see if my kids are truant or not. It's one thing I love
about
> this state.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Judie
>
> "Keep me away from the wisdom that does not cry,
> the philosophy which does not laugh, and the greatness
> which does not bow before children." -Kahlil Gibran
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/4/2001 12:26:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
nikleba@... writes:

<<
We need more stories about unschoolers. When has it succeeded and
when has it failed? HAS it failed?
>>
<< I tell her that I'm ordinary and my unschooling worked because
unschooling works.>>

Can anyone articulate why this "unschooling works" or doesn't, makes me so
uncomfortable? It seems to buy into that "outcome-based parenting" meme.
Laurie, you come across as very nice and a person who could give this some
thought. I'm not criticizing or attacking here, merely asking.

When my family comments on my 14yo unschooled daughter, I get a lot of "she's
so bright", "you've done a wonderful job", "unschooling has really worked for
HER"-kind of comments. I squirm. She is not a cake that I baked. She is not
a project that "proves" or disproves an unschooling theory. She is just
herself, and my job, as her mom, is to help her clear that path to
self-knowledge in any way I can.

Understand?

Laura

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/4/2001 12:26:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
nikleba@... writes:


>
> This is something that she is absolutely sure of because she is about
>


I understand this. . . when my daughter was born, I went back to college to
get a Master's in Adapted Physical Education. About the time I was finishing
up, I started looking into unschooling and the works of John Holt. I started
questioning my professors and their methods and was always met with "we do it
that way because it has to be done that way, always been done that way", etc.
I could not in good consciousness finish my master's with the knowledge I now
had in hand, and so I stopped a semester away from finishing, and decided I
would homeschool, and do something else for work. But educrats believe they
know everything and you cannot question them. . . I know I have several in my
family who are appalled at my homeschooling.

lovemary
If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself, and then
make a change.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeanmarie Shingleton

>From: "Valerie" <valfitz@...>

>At age seven, Laurie started quoting facts and numbers having to do
>with the new prospective superstores. I asked her where she learned
>that and she said, "It was in Time magazine." I said, "You read Time
>magazine?" She said, "Well, it was the only thing in the bathroom."

LOL!! Too funny!!! Well, I can relate to this. My 13 yo reads Time, too.
I just tend to look at the pictures!! But the interesting thing about
this is that his two older sibs who did "real school" never had any time to
read anything other than the required reading or textbooks, but Sean will
pick up anything and read it... and has pretty good recall of just about
anything and everything he reads. Amazes me..

We're not talking about just the full size articles here, either. I bring
him to work with me sometimes and we (some of my co-workers) got on the
subject of the pros & con's of long term breastfeeding and the next thing I
knew Sean was recalling an article (little tiny blurb in the back) in Time
the week before about the "negative" effects of long term nursing. I was
flabbergasted to say the least. Had to go home and find the issue to see
what he was talking about. I'll never ever question those comments again.
He was right on with what the article said. <shaking my head in amazement>

Jeanmarie
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[email protected]

>
> When my family comments on my 14yo unschooled daughter, I get a lot
of "she's
> so bright", "you've done a wonderful job", "unschooling has really
worked for
> HER"-kind of comments. I squirm. She is not a cake that I baked.
She is not
> a project that "proves" or disproves an unschooling theory. She is
just
> herself, and my job, as her mom, is to help her clear that path to
> self-knowledge in any way I can.
>
> Understand?
>
> Laura

Do other people only see success when they see a child succeed
academicly? (sp) My elder children went to ps. If I had unschooled
the 2 eldest, both would have succeeded in there own right. Only
one would have been an academic success. The second is also a
*genius* in his own right. But academically he was/is a failure.
Would people have said I had *failed* with this child. (Who, by the
way owns his own successful business)

Marianne

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/4/2001 3:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tonitoni@... writes:

<< Do other people only see success when they see a child succeed
academicly? >>

Hey Marianne :)

Well, you know my love of other people's words:

"And it's been a horrifying academic secret for decades that the children who
walk away with the highest formal honors, the valedictorians and National
Merit Scholars, have a horrendous performance record in later life." John
Taylor Gatto

There just different things to learn, right? My husband wasn't such a
terrific student, didn't care about grades, and didn't go to college (until
recently, in his 40's). But, the man knows how to do everything!! Cars,
building, chess, mountain climbing -- his lists of interests are endless.
(Lately he loves opera:) His job supports us all nicely.

I, on the other hand, thought learning was about getting a good grade, making
people proud of you. Impressing others. Once I got out of school, I
floundered. "Who do I impress now?" I still have trouble with motivation if
there isn't the carrot of someone telling me what a good job I've done, how
exceptional I am. (At what, laundry?)

Clearing the path to a true sense of self, whatever that "self" may become --
my "goal" as a mom.

Laura

Eileen M.

Does Asperger's Syndrome (autistic spectrum w/highish
IQ), combined with ADHD, Anxiety Disorder, hearing
difficulties, Central Processing Disorder/Disorders
(not completely nailed down yet), and other (he had
seizures as a baby, and we don't know yet if he's
inherited the family-linked bipolar and tremor issues)
physical and developmental problems and chronic
illness count?

Eileen


> Are there any parents of special needs kids in the
> group? I'm not
> referring to dyslexia or ADD, but challenges like
> Down's Syndrome and
> autism.
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Diana Tashjian

If you don't mind sharing, what are your second child's strengths and how have they translated into success? I'm always trying to wean myself from the belief that the only road to success is through academics! :o)

Thanks!
Diana Tashjian
----- Original Message -----
From: tonitoni@...
Do other people only see success when they see a child succeed
academicly? (sp) My elder children went to ps. If I had unschooled
the 2 eldest, both would have succeeded in there own right. Only
one would have been an academic success. The second is also a
*genius* in his own right. But academically he was/is a failure.
Would people have said I had *failed* with this child. (Who, by the
way owns his own successful business)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

I was told those same things Laura. When they told me "you did a
wonderful job" I would reply with, "I left her alone. I didn't do a
thing." I agree that our wording needs work. Laurie ended up in
college with a 4.0 which makes her a success in society's eyes. She
would have been a success to me no matter what path she took in life,
as long as she was happy.

You made a good point. What would constitute it NOT working?

love, Valerie


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., parrishml@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/4/2001 12:26:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> nikleba@y... writes:
>
> <<
> We need more stories about unschoolers. When has it succeeded and
> when has it failed? HAS it failed?
> >>
> << I tell her that I'm ordinary and my unschooling worked because
> unschooling works.>>
>
> Can anyone articulate why this "unschooling works" or doesn't,
makes me so
> uncomfortable? It seems to buy into that "outcome-based parenting"
meme.
> Laurie, you come across as very nice and a person who could give
this some
> thought. I'm not criticizing or attacking here, merely asking.
>
> When my family comments on my 14yo unschooled daughter, I get a lot
of "she's
> so bright", "you've done a wonderful job", "unschooling has really
worked for
> HER"-kind of comments. I squirm. She is not a cake that I baked.
She is not
> a project that "proves" or disproves an unschooling theory. She is
just
> herself, and my job, as her mom, is to help her clear that path to
> self-knowledge in any way I can.
>
> Understand?
>
> Laura

Valerie

LOL Jeanmarie... and it gets better and better. I have learned so
much more from listening to Laurie than I EVER learned in school or
college. The wide variety of topics that catch unschooler's interest
is phenomenal.

Laurie just told me on the phone tonight why there are so many
mosquitoes in Canada. It just never stops.

love, Valerie

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Jeanmarie Shingleton"
<Jmarie_s02qlt@h...> wrote:
> >From: "Valerie" <valfitz@y...>
>
> >At age seven, Laurie started quoting facts and numbers having to do
> >with the new prospective superstores. I asked her where she learned
> >that and she said, "It was in Time magazine." I said, "You read
Time
> >magazine?" She said, "Well, it was the only thing in the
bathroom."
>
> LOL!! Too funny!!! Well, I can relate to this. My 13 yo reads
Time, too.
> I just tend to look at the pictures!! But the interesting thing
about
> this is that his two older sibs who did "real school" never had any
time to
> read anything other than the required reading or textbooks, but
Sean will
> pick up anything and read it... and has pretty good recall of just
about
> anything and everything he reads. Amazes me..
>
> We're not talking about just the full size articles here, either.
I bring
> him to work with me sometimes and we (some of my co-workers) got on
the
> subject of the pros & con's of long term breastfeeding and the next
thing I
> knew Sean was recalling an article (little tiny blurb in the back)
in Time
> the week before about the "negative" effects of long term nursing.
I was
> flabbergasted to say the least. Had to go home and find the issue
to see
> what he was talking about. I'll never ever question those comments
again.
> He was right on with what the article said. <shaking my head in
amazement>
>
> Jeanmarie
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Valerie

I graduated from high school with a 3.8, married at age 18, started
drinking A LOT seven nights a week, got divorced, started using drugs
A LOT, somehow landed a great job, found Laurie's dad at the great
job, quit the alcohol and drugs, got pregnant and discovered
unschooling. With unschooling, watching Laurie learn and grow...I was
finally able to feel like I had accomplished something. Academics are
not a measure of success, in spite of Laurie's 4.0 in college. It's
her happiness with learning that is important to me.

love, Valerie


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., parrishml@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/4/2001 3:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> tonitoni@z... writes:
>
> << Do other people only see success when they see a child succeed
> academicly? >>
>
> Hey Marianne :)
>
> Well, you know my love of other people's words:
>
> "And it's been a horrifying academic secret for decades that the
children who
> walk away with the highest formal honors, the valedictorians and
National
> Merit Scholars, have a horrendous performance record in later
life." John
> Taylor Gatto
>
> There just different things to learn, right? My husband wasn't such
a
> terrific student, didn't care about grades, and didn't go to
college (until
> recently, in his 40's). But, the man knows how to do everything!!
Cars,
> building, chess, mountain climbing -- his lists of interests are
endless.
> (Lately he loves opera:) His job supports us all nicely.
>
> I, on the other hand, thought learning was about getting a good
grade, making
> people proud of you. Impressing others. Once I got out of school, I
> floundered. "Who do I impress now?" I still have trouble with
motivation if
> there isn't the carrot of someone telling me what a good job I've
done, how
> exceptional I am. (At what, laundry?)
>
> Clearing the path to a true sense of self, whatever that "self" may
become --
> my "goal" as a mom.
>
> Laura