[email protected]

In a message dated 04/17/2001 3:05:22 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
diamondair@... writes:


I'm curious about that one. To my knowledge it is not a standard test, and
indeed you have to sign several "informed consent" types of papers to even
have one. Usually they are suggested after an abnormal blood test reading
indicating some form of genetic problem.


And my two were suggested because I was oooollllddddd (late 30s).  No
complications.

Nance

[email protected]

>
>
> And my two were suggested because I was oooollllddddd (late 30s).
No
> complications.
>
> Nance


I had an amnio test with my 5th child, because I was *an older
mother*. The doctor said one of the things tested for was down
syndrome - if this was found I could have an abortion........
While waiting for the results, I reliezed that no matter what was
found - I could not have an abortion. This was a living being inside
me. She was already a person with a name.
Marianne

[email protected]

In a message dated 04/17/2001 7:37:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
tonitoni@... writes:


I had an amnio test with my 5th child, because I was *an older
mother*.  The doctor said one of the things tested for was down
syndrome - if this was found I could have an abortion........



Right -- that was the point of mine too.  

Nance

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/17/01 12:37:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tonitoni@... writes:

<< I had an amnio test with my 5th child, because I was *an older
mother*. The doctor said one of the things tested for was down
syndrome - if this was found I could have an abortion........ >>

This is one thing everyone presented with the amnio option/suggestion
should consider. If the condition being tested for is one in which there is
no treatment available before birth, there is no point in having it if the
person has already decided she won't opt for an abortion even if there is a
problem.

Lucy

[email protected]

In a message dated 04/17/2001 7:51:31 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
tracy.oldfield@... writes:


They're probably much safer in the hands of someone competent,



Well, yes.  Mine used the live ultrasound and everyone in the room could see
everything.

A condition I became used to more and more throughout pregnancy! :)

Nance

[email protected]

In a message dated 04/17/2001 8:07:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, LASaliger@...
writes:


.  If the condition being tested for is one in which there is
no treatment available before birth, there is no point in having it if the
person has already decided she won't opt for an abortion even if there is a
problem.  

       Lucy




Preparation -- that's what else it is good for.  IMO

Nance

Valerie Stewart

.  If the condition being tested for is one in which there is
no treatment available before birth, there is no point in having it if the
person has already decided she won't opt for an abortion even if there is a
problem.  

       Lucy




Preparation -- that's what else it is good for.  IMO

Nance 

 ***This is my take also. I had a midwife and homebirths. In this state, it was required of the midwife to take blood twice (to test for possible Downs and spinal bifida) but that's it. It was understood that if the baby was a Down's baby, this would just give us time to prepare for that, and that if the baby had spinal bifida, then a vaginal birth wouldn't have been a great idea. Again, preparation, abortion wasn't even mentioned.
 
Valerie in Tacoma 

Lynda

When I worked in radiology (ultrasounds and amnios were done there), lots of lives were saved by the combination.  One baby was the first to have kidney surgery done in the uterus.  The condition was found in an amnio (with concurrent ultrasound).  There were lots of cases where babies were saved.  Lots more where folks were prepared (the hospital had a whole team set up for counseling and classes to prepare parents) and we had a whole wall of photos and cards from grateful parents.  Each year we had a party for our "kids" that otherwise wouldn't have survived or would have been dumped at SDC.
 
I'm not a great fan of doctors but there are some that are good and there are some advances in medicine that have saved literally thousands of lives.
 
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for critical ...

.  If the condition being tested for is one in which there is
no treatment available before birth, there is no point in having it if the
person has already decided she won't opt for an abortion even if there is a
problem.  

       Lucy




Preparation -- that's what else it is good for.  IMO

Nance 


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In a message dated 4/17/01 12:10:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


The doctor should not have recommended it.
Yes, she should have said no, but unless she was screwing around on her
husband with an eastern European Jew, she shouldn't (by what is currently
believed) have been a candidate for that danger.

Why would having a child fathered by an Eastern European Jew make a woman a
candidate for genetic testing? I am truly curious because my dh's mother's
side are Eastern European Jews (he's 2nd generation American on his maternal
side and 1st generation American on his paternal side...his dad was from
Italy). My heritage is 2nd generation American from German Jew ancestry on my
dad's paternal side and 3rd generation  American from Irish ancestry on  my
mother 's maternal side.

 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

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Sandra Dodd (AElflaed)

-=-Why would having a child fathered by an Eastern European Jew make
a woman a candidate for genetic testing?-=-


Because the mother was, and the condition they were checking for
required (as I understand; could be wrong) both to be of that genetic
pool. If either parent was otherwise, the odds of the condition were
nil (I was told).

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/18/01 2:57:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


Because the mother was, and the condition they were checking for
required (as I understand; could be wrong) both to be of that genetic
pool.  If either parent was otherwise, the odds of the condition were
nil (I was told).

Sandra


Ah...okay. I understand now.


 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

Our Family Photo Album Index


































































































[email protected]

I am very, very sorry for your friend. I have lost 7 babies to miscarriage
and 12 years ago as on the 28th my only daughter was born asleep when I was
almost 6 mos. along. I can truly understand the loss that your friend is
going thru.

 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

Our Family Photo Album Index


































































































B. Van Brunt

Ah, but this is such a personal decision. A positive result from the downs
blood test (AFP?) only tells you that there is a *chance* that the baby will
have downs. I opted not to have this done. For you, it meant time for
preparation, for me it meant time for worrying about something that may not
be and which I had no control over.

Neither decision is right or wrong, as long as it is well informed and
considered.


----Original Message Follows----
From: " Valerie Stewart" <vlos@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for
critical ...
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:40:06 -0700

. If the condition being tested for is one in which there is
no treatment available before birth, there is no point in having it if
the
person has already decided she won't opt for an abortion even if there
is a
problem.

Lucy





Preparation -- that's what else it is good for. IMO

Nance

***This is my take also. I had a midwife and homebirths. In this state,
it was required of the midwife to take blood twice (to test for possible
Downs and spinal bifida) but that's it. It was understood that if the baby
was a Down's baby, this would just give us time to prepare for that, and
that if the baby had spinal bifida, then a vaginal birth wouldn't have been
a great idea. Again, preparation, abortion wasn't even mentioned.

Valerie in Tacoma

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/18/01 12:13:22 AM, lurine@... writes:

<< When I worked in radiology (ultrasounds and amnios were done there), lots
of lives were saved by the combination. >>

More lives than 1 in 200 being saved?
Too many are being lost.

Sandra

Lynda

Tay-Sachs is a genetic condition that is carried by Jews (not Eastern or Western or otherwise but all as the ethnic strain came from a single gene pool).  It is recessive and if both parents carry the gene the child may get the disease.
 
Now, here's the tricky part and why when "one" partner in a marriage/relationship/biological making of a child is from an ethnic line that goes back to that original gene pool they (some OB/GYNs) recommend testing.  Just like a segment of the black population that is very fair skinned and did what was referred to as "passing," it has been found that many Jewish slaves escaped and "passed" as Italian, Greek or whatever in order to escape the conditions that they lived in.  Tay-Sachs and Sickle Cell Anemia have been found in people that swore unequivocally that they could not/did not have any ancestors that were of the necessary ethnic group to pass on this disease.  With further research it was discovered that someone "passed" a few generations back.  The same has been found with folks that swore they were "pure" whatever back to arriving at Ellis Island and when they came up with a disease or condition that is seen more in the Native American population it was found that Grampa's bride wasn't actually who they said she was.  It happens/happened frequently and now, with in-depth genealogical research, scientists are finding out why these anomalies are occurring.
 
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for critical ...

In a message dated 4/17/01 12:10:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


The doctor should not have recommended it.
Yes, she should have said no, but unless she was screwing around on her
husband with an eastern European Jew, she shouldn't (by what is currently
believed) have been a candidate for that danger.


Why would having a child fathered by an Eastern European Jew make a woman a
candidate for genetic testing? I am truly curious because my dh's mother's
side are Eastern European Jews (he's 2nd generation American on his maternal
side and 1st generation American on his paternal side...his dad was from
Italy). My heritage is 2nd generation American from German Jew ancestry on my
dad's paternal side and 3rd generation  American from Irish ancestry on  my
mother 's maternal side.

 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

Our Family Photo Album Index




































































































Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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Lynda

Less than 1% vs. 50% or better. Hmmm, seems like a good number to me.
During a one year period we had 3 miscarriages following an amnio which may
or may not have been due to the amnio. Several hundred amnios were done
(county hospital with the teaching model gp clinic attached and two OB/GYN
groups in the complex). 7 pregnancies were terminated following the amnios
(2 had terminal kidney conditions, 1 baby had no brain, 1 had non-operative
SB, 3 had DS). Of the amnios that were done to determine lung function,
over half the labors were stopped and the women put on complete bed rest,
only one baby didn't make it. Of the ones done for kidney problems the 2
above and 3 others didn't make it. Over 50 did because of the knowledge
gained by the amnios. The SB babies were delivered by c-section and all
came back to our parties, we didn't lose one!

Let's see, 3 miscarriages vs. a hundred or more successes. Works for me.

As you said "I'm getting really grumpy now," (since obviously your post
below was thrown in as argument for argument's sake) so perhaps you are
right and you should drop it.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for
critical ...


>
> In a message dated 4/18/01 12:13:22 AM, lurine@... writes:
>
> << When I worked in radiology (ultrasounds and amnios were done there),
lots
> of lives were saved by the combination. >>
>
> More lives than 1 in 200 being saved?
> Too many are being lost.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/18/01 3:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lurine@... writes:


Tay-Sachs is a genetic condition that is carried by Jews (not Eastern or
Western or otherwise but all as the ethnic strain came from a single gene
pool).  It is recessive and if both parents carry the gene the child may
get the disease.

Now, here's the tricky part and why when "one" partner in a
marriage/relationship/biological making of a child is from an ethnic line
that goes back to that original gene pool they (some OB/GYNs) recommend
testing.  Just like a segment of the black population that is very fair
skinned and did what was referred to as "passing," it has been found that
many Jewish slaves escaped and "passed" as Italian, Greek or whatever in
order to escape the conditions that they lived in.


Thank you for explaining. I probably should have been tested then but I just
very recently (last few mos.) found out that my dad's side of the family
WHERE Jewish but when my great-grandmother immigrated she converted to
Christianity (or maybe did before hand in order TO immigrate). My dad's
siblings and everyone else on his family DENY my findings (I researched my
family tree) because they are all devout Christians and want nothing to do
with being of Jewish ancestry (my conversion caused quite a few problems, to
the say the least). I will definitely keep this info. in my brain for when my
son's grow up and marry , though. THANK YOU!

 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

Our Family Photo Album Index


































































































Johanna

This is one of the reasond I hate it when a government form asks what nationality are you? My children have american indian, hispanic and caucasian ancestors. Which one do you pick?
 
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynda
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for critical ...

Tay-Sachs is a genetic condition that is carried by Jews (not Eastern or Western or otherwise but all as the ethnic strain came from a single gene pool).  It is recessive and if both parents carry the gene the child may get the disease.
 
Now, here's the tricky part and why when "one" partner in a marriage/relationship/biological making of a child is from an ethnic line that goes back to that original gene pool they (some OB/GYNs) recommend testing.  Just like a segment of the black population that is very fair skinned and did what was referred to as "passing," it has been found that many Jewish slaves escaped and "passed" as Italian, Greek or whatever in order to escape the conditions that they lived in.  Tay-Sachs and Sickle Cell Anemia have been found in people that swore unequivocally that they could not/did not have any ancestors that were of the necessary ethnic group to pass on this disease.  With further research it was discovered that someone "passed" a few generations back.  The same has been found with folks that swore they were "pure" whatever back to arriving at Ellis Island and when they came up with a disease or condition that is seen more in the Native American population it was found that Grampa's bride wasn't actually who they said she was.  It happens/happened frequently and now, with in-depth genealogical research, scientists are finding out why these anomalies are occurring.
 
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: doom and gloom--cessation,and plea for critical ...

In a message dated 4/17/01 12:10:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


The doctor should not have recommended it.
Yes, she should have said no, but unless she was screwing around on her
husband with an eastern European Jew, she shouldn't (by what is currently
believed) have been a candidate for that danger.


Why would having a child fathered by an Eastern European Jew make a woman a
candidate for genetic testing? I am truly curious because my dh's mother's
side are Eastern European Jews (he's 2nd generation American on his maternal
side and 1st generation American on his paternal side...his dad was from
Italy). My heritage is 2nd generation American from German Jew ancestry on my
dad's paternal side and 3rd generation  American from Irish ancestry on  my
mother 's maternal side.

 Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91

My Homepage

Our Family Photo Album Index




































































































Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Johanna" <saninocencio1@c...> wrote:
> This is one of the reasond I hate it when a government form asks
what nationality are you? My children have american indian, hispanic
and caucasian ancestors. Which one do you pick?
*We always choose "other", even though I look caucasian, there's
a little bit of everything. My children are obviously not caucasian,
and I'm always asked if they're adopted. I tell them their daddy is
Japanese. But my little Rachel looks so Japanese, they don't believe
me. Funny, my husband has the features of a Korean - a little
different than the features of a Japanese. BUT WHO CARES?? Whenever
I leave it blank, they fill it in for me "white". Well, I'm not
albino...

Melanie in Indiana

Tracy Oldfield

> This is one of the reasond I hate it when a government form asks what
> nationality are you? My children have american indian, hispanic and
> caucasian ancestors. Which one do you pick?
>
> Johanna
> Life is the ultimate learning experience!


I like to tick 'other' and write in 'human.'

Tracy