the o'rielly factor
[email protected]
just now I'm listening to 'the O'Reilly factor' on 'fox news' at 8 PM and
he's reporting 60% of the 4th graders can't read - 60%!! public school 4th
grade children can't read!!! in the whole USA!!!
and They wonder why we are Unscholing!
jeannie
he's reporting 60% of the 4th graders can't read - 60%!! public school 4th
grade children can't read!!! in the whole USA!!!
and They wonder why we are Unscholing!
jeannie
[email protected]
not good, i spelled unschooling wrong
whoops
whoops
Juli
What? No... he must have meant 60% can't read at grade
level, maybe? Juli
--- Jclamdown@... wrote:
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level, maybe? Juli
--- Jclamdown@... wrote:
> just now I'm listening to 'the O'Reilly factor' on=====
> 'fox news' at 8 PM and
> he's reporting 60% of the 4th graders can't read -
> 60%!! public school 4th
> grade children can't read!!! in the whole USA!!!
> and They wonder why we are Unscholing!
> jeannie
>
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Lynda
O'Reilly of the infamous Spin Factor probably meant exactly what he said
even though that is probably not what the stats were. He began the segment
with his usual rant that "even with all the promises Clinton made, blah,
blah, blah" and went on to say "now we'll see if Bush can blah, blah, blah."
Then he ranted about wasting money and that the only thing schools needed
was discipline. Then he stated that 63% of all black 4th graders couldn't
read. He later added that 60% of all "poor" 4th graders couldn't read.
Now, I e-mailed him to ask where he got his stats but if he runs true to
form, he won't say. AND, when presented with the correct stats he will not
acknowledge them! Guaranteed!!!!!
Lynda
even though that is probably not what the stats were. He began the segment
with his usual rant that "even with all the promises Clinton made, blah,
blah, blah" and went on to say "now we'll see if Bush can blah, blah, blah."
Then he ranted about wasting money and that the only thing schools needed
was discipline. Then he stated that 63% of all black 4th graders couldn't
read. He later added that 60% of all "poor" 4th graders couldn't read.
Now, I e-mailed him to ask where he got his stats but if he runs true to
form, he won't say. AND, when presented with the correct stats he will not
acknowledge them! Guaranteed!!!!!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juli" <yuliwomie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the o'rielly factor
> What? No... he must have meant 60% can't read at grade
> level, maybe? Juli
>
> --- Jclamdown@... wrote:
> > just now I'm listening to 'the O'Reilly factor' on
> > 'fox news' at 8 PM and
> > he's reporting 60% of the 4th graders can't read -
> > 60%!! public school 4th
> > grade children can't read!!! in the whole USA!!!
> > and They wonder why we are Unscholing!
> > jeannie
> >
>
>
> =====
> You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within
himself --Galileo
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
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>
>
[email protected]
<< Now, I e-mailed him to ask where he got his stats but if he runs true to
form, he won't say. AND, when presented with the correct stats he will not
acknowledge them! >>
Where would "correct stats" come from?
The definition of "reading" varies greatly. Getting good grades on reading
lessons is usually considered "reading." Reading lessons often consist of
phonics worksheets the first few years, and multiple choice or
fill-in-the-blanks after that for a while.
"Reading" in 4th grade has never meant fluent reading of large blocks of
texts except for the few best readers in each class. Others stumble along
sounding things out. Lots of homeschoolers seem not to know that, and they
pressure their kids a lot. They see one eight year old reading Harry Potter
(they don't know with how much ease or comprehension) and they think ALL
should be able to if they're not lazy. That's the worst thing I see in
homeschoolers, is unreasonable expectation and then shaming the kids for
being behind.
I think we should turn away from school and its problems and be with our
children right where they are--right where they are in learning about fish
and the air and fire and drawing and music and whatever they're learning,
looking at them, not at a "4th grade book." We are doing as much for school
reform by taking our kids out as are the most rabid school reformers. We are
creating a control group, the results of which will be miscontrued, but
there's no avoiding that--there are no statistics to be had on unschoolers
either, not yet and maybe never will be, but there will be anecdotal
impressive exceptions, and there will someday be researchers and politicians
able to say "I wasn't taught to read and I could read fluently by eleven" or
whenever.
Sandra
form, he won't say. AND, when presented with the correct stats he will not
acknowledge them! >>
Where would "correct stats" come from?
The definition of "reading" varies greatly. Getting good grades on reading
lessons is usually considered "reading." Reading lessons often consist of
phonics worksheets the first few years, and multiple choice or
fill-in-the-blanks after that for a while.
"Reading" in 4th grade has never meant fluent reading of large blocks of
texts except for the few best readers in each class. Others stumble along
sounding things out. Lots of homeschoolers seem not to know that, and they
pressure their kids a lot. They see one eight year old reading Harry Potter
(they don't know with how much ease or comprehension) and they think ALL
should be able to if they're not lazy. That's the worst thing I see in
homeschoolers, is unreasonable expectation and then shaming the kids for
being behind.
I think we should turn away from school and its problems and be with our
children right where they are--right where they are in learning about fish
and the air and fire and drawing and music and whatever they're learning,
looking at them, not at a "4th grade book." We are doing as much for school
reform by taking our kids out as are the most rabid school reformers. We are
creating a control group, the results of which will be miscontrued, but
there's no avoiding that--there are no statistics to be had on unschoolers
either, not yet and maybe never will be, but there will be anecdotal
impressive exceptions, and there will someday be researchers and politicians
able to say "I wasn't taught to read and I could read fluently by eleven" or
whenever.
Sandra
Lynda
For example, he made a comment about the quality of education in CA. He
told the head of the school system in SF that since they were dumbing down
the kids he might as well send them to Eureka as they would fit right in.
When provided with "correct" as in "accurate" information which included
results from all the counties, all the school districts and the national
results which clearly showed that students in Humboldt County outscored SF,
he ignored them.
As to correct information, perhaps I should have phrased it as he should
correctly state his facts. I did a web search through the local school
district and the over-all numbers do not show that 60% of the POOR (he
stated poor) 4th graders cannot read. It did show that in SOME poor areas
of the country 60% of the 4th graders could not read fluently and/or at
grade level.
Now, what grade level is in reading, one more area that has been dumbed
down. If you go and get a book printed in the 50s and find a current copy
of it and it is a book that includes a reading level, you will find that
what "was" 4th grade level is now listed as 5th or 6th grade level.
Being an unschooler does not, IMHO and without links to back this up,
relieve me of a responsibility to my world. Part of my world is encompassed
by other folks who are not knowledgable enough to fight for themselves.
Part of my world is being beat down by highly visable experts who pass out
as "fact" their opinion. The result is the shaming of some people. I don't
find that acceptable.
Because O'Reilly the Spin Doctor doesn't like how much money is being spent
on Title One is no excuse for him to make statements as facts to support his
pet peeves when what he is stating is not fact. In many cases it is pure
invention or wishful thinking. I have no idea where he gets the information
he uses but a lot of it is simply his opinion based on his exaggerated idea
of his own self-worth and expertise.
One of his favorites is "I know how to run schools and fix the education
system because I went to Harvard and I was a teacher." He taught for two
years, some expert.
Lynda
told the head of the school system in SF that since they were dumbing down
the kids he might as well send them to Eureka as they would fit right in.
When provided with "correct" as in "accurate" information which included
results from all the counties, all the school districts and the national
results which clearly showed that students in Humboldt County outscored SF,
he ignored them.
As to correct information, perhaps I should have phrased it as he should
correctly state his facts. I did a web search through the local school
district and the over-all numbers do not show that 60% of the POOR (he
stated poor) 4th graders cannot read. It did show that in SOME poor areas
of the country 60% of the 4th graders could not read fluently and/or at
grade level.
Now, what grade level is in reading, one more area that has been dumbed
down. If you go and get a book printed in the 50s and find a current copy
of it and it is a book that includes a reading level, you will find that
what "was" 4th grade level is now listed as 5th or 6th grade level.
Being an unschooler does not, IMHO and without links to back this up,
relieve me of a responsibility to my world. Part of my world is encompassed
by other folks who are not knowledgable enough to fight for themselves.
Part of my world is being beat down by highly visable experts who pass out
as "fact" their opinion. The result is the shaming of some people. I don't
find that acceptable.
Because O'Reilly the Spin Doctor doesn't like how much money is being spent
on Title One is no excuse for him to make statements as facts to support his
pet peeves when what he is stating is not fact. In many cases it is pure
invention or wishful thinking. I have no idea where he gets the information
he uses but a lot of it is simply his opinion based on his exaggerated idea
of his own self-worth and expertise.
One of his favorites is "I know how to run schools and fix the education
system because I went to Harvard and I was a teacher." He taught for two
years, some expert.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] the o'rielly factor
> << Now, I e-mailed him to ask where he got his stats but if he runs true
to
> form, he won't say. AND, when presented with the correct stats he will
not
> acknowledge them! >>
>
> Where would "correct stats" come from?
>
> The definition of "reading" varies greatly. Getting good grades on
reading
> lessons is usually considered "reading." Reading lessons often consist
of
> phonics worksheets the first few years, and multiple choice or
> fill-in-the-blanks after that for a while.
>
> "Reading" in 4th grade has never meant fluent reading of large blocks of
> texts except for the few best readers in each class. Others stumble along
> sounding things out. Lots of homeschoolers seem not to know that, and
they
> pressure their kids a lot. They see one eight year old reading Harry
Potter
> (they don't know with how much ease or comprehension) and they think ALL
> should be able to if they're not lazy. That's the worst thing I see in
> homeschoolers, is unreasonable expectation and then shaming the kids for
> being behind.
>
> I think we should turn away from school and its problems and be with our
> children right where they are--right where they are in learning about fish
> and the air and fire and drawing and music and whatever they're learning,
> looking at them, not at a "4th grade book." We are doing as much for
school
> reform by taking our kids out as are the most rabid school reformers. We
are
> creating a control group, the results of which will be miscontrued, but
> there's no avoiding that--there are no statistics to be had on unschoolers
> either, not yet and maybe never will be, but there will be anecdotal
> impressive exceptions, and there will someday be researchers and
politicians
> able to say "I wasn't taught to read and I could read fluently by eleven"
or
> whenever.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>