bullies
[email protected]
Wow, do I have a lot to say today! Feel free to tell me to shut up
and go away for a while!
My ds, who is 10 and will be 11 in August has a paper route. This has
been a fantastic experience for him. He's making friends with all
sorts of neighbors. He's got this 94 yo buddy who lives alone and is
thrilled to see him every day. He's handling his own money, very
wisely, I might add. He's learned to organize his time. He's becoming
independent about making decisions. It's all been great.
But today these middle schoolers bullied him. He doesn't know them.
They sometimes follow him on his route on their bikes or make stupid
comments. Part of the problem is his route time happens to be right
when middle school gets out. His papers come right at that time and
he has to be done by 5, so he can't wait for the middle school kids
to get home and off the streets.
Anyway, one kid rear-ended Erik (on bikes). Erik heard them
saying, "He's a wimp; let's get him!" And he saw them speed up. So he
jumped off his bike (scraping his knee) just a fraction of a second
before the one kid rammed into his bike. Smart move, I thought. Then,
he grabbed a snow shovel lying in the yard where they were and
reached out with the shovel and flipped off each of the three boys'
baseball caps with the handle. While they were retrieving their caps,
he ran to Grandma's house and got a bandaid for his knee and waited
until the kids left the sidewalk in front of Grandma's where they
were waiting for him. Then he finished his route. But just as he was
coming home, they came for him again. He rode fast, ran into the
house and the boys left.
Then a guy called and said he didn't get his paper. No surprise,
considering how distracted Erik must have been. Erik went out with
the snow shovel from our garage this time, and the boys appeared
again and surrounded him on their bikes. He did the baseball cap
thing again and got away. I asked why they weren't prepared this time
for the cap thing and he says they just aren't too bright. I'm
guessing maybe they thought it was funny the first time and let him
do it again?
Anyway... tomorrow and after... I'm worried these boys will get him
and beat him up or something. I'm torn between leaving him to defend
himself with his cleverness against their numbers and size or maybe
going with him on the route? He has any number of houses to run to if
the boys come after him when he's not on Grandma's street. In fact,
earlier this winter, the boys were chasing him and he went into a
neighbor's house to wait it out. Am I exposing him to danger by
allowing him to keep the route? I don't want to baby him or
overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
I took him out of school!
and go away for a while!
My ds, who is 10 and will be 11 in August has a paper route. This has
been a fantastic experience for him. He's making friends with all
sorts of neighbors. He's got this 94 yo buddy who lives alone and is
thrilled to see him every day. He's handling his own money, very
wisely, I might add. He's learned to organize his time. He's becoming
independent about making decisions. It's all been great.
But today these middle schoolers bullied him. He doesn't know them.
They sometimes follow him on his route on their bikes or make stupid
comments. Part of the problem is his route time happens to be right
when middle school gets out. His papers come right at that time and
he has to be done by 5, so he can't wait for the middle school kids
to get home and off the streets.
Anyway, one kid rear-ended Erik (on bikes). Erik heard them
saying, "He's a wimp; let's get him!" And he saw them speed up. So he
jumped off his bike (scraping his knee) just a fraction of a second
before the one kid rammed into his bike. Smart move, I thought. Then,
he grabbed a snow shovel lying in the yard where they were and
reached out with the shovel and flipped off each of the three boys'
baseball caps with the handle. While they were retrieving their caps,
he ran to Grandma's house and got a bandaid for his knee and waited
until the kids left the sidewalk in front of Grandma's where they
were waiting for him. Then he finished his route. But just as he was
coming home, they came for him again. He rode fast, ran into the
house and the boys left.
Then a guy called and said he didn't get his paper. No surprise,
considering how distracted Erik must have been. Erik went out with
the snow shovel from our garage this time, and the boys appeared
again and surrounded him on their bikes. He did the baseball cap
thing again and got away. I asked why they weren't prepared this time
for the cap thing and he says they just aren't too bright. I'm
guessing maybe they thought it was funny the first time and let him
do it again?
Anyway... tomorrow and after... I'm worried these boys will get him
and beat him up or something. I'm torn between leaving him to defend
himself with his cleverness against their numbers and size or maybe
going with him on the route? He has any number of houses to run to if
the boys come after him when he's not on Grandma's street. In fact,
earlier this winter, the boys were chasing him and he went into a
neighbor's house to wait it out. Am I exposing him to danger by
allowing him to keep the route? I don't want to baby him or
overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
I took him out of school!
Vaughnde Edwards
Bullies are everywhere, not just on the school playgrounds
or inside the school. Does your son have a friend that would be willing to go
with him on his route? A older cousin, brother, etc? I think for your son's
sake, it would be much better if mom did not tag along. Also you might want to
call the newspaper that your son delivers, explain the situation and ask if they
could deliver the papers earlier so your son can be done with the route earlier?
In our town, the carriers deliver the paper in the mornings, not at night so its
much easier. Ask your son how he would like to solve this problem and tell him
how you feel. Maybe between the two of you, you might be able to come up with
some workable solutions.
-----Original Message-----Wow, do I have a lot to say today! Feel free to tell me to shut up
From: yuliwomie@... <yuliwomie@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 16, 2001 3:55 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] bullies
and go away for a while!
My ds, who is 10 and will be 11 in August has a paper route. This has
been a fantastic experience for him. He's making friends with all
sorts of neighbors. He's got this 94 yo buddy who lives alone and is
thrilled to see him every day. He's handling his own money, very
wisely, I might add. He's learned to organize his time. He's becoming
independent about making decisions. It's all been great.
But today these middle schoolers bullied him. He doesn't know them.
They sometimes follow him on his route on their bikes or make stupid
comments. Part of the problem is his route time happens to be right
when middle school gets out. His papers come right at that time and
he has to be done by 5, so he can't wait for the middle school kids
to get home and off the streets.
Anyway, one kid rear-ended Erik (on bikes). Erik heard them
saying, "He's a wimp; let's get him!" And he saw them speed up. So he
jumped off his bike (scraping his knee) just a fraction of a second
before the one kid rammed into his bike. Smart move, I thought. Then,
he grabbed a snow shovel lying in the yard where they were and
reached out with the shovel and flipped off each of the three boys'
baseball caps with the handle. While they were retrieving their caps,
he ran to Grandma's house and got a bandaid for his knee and waited
until the kids left the sidewalk in front of Grandma's where they
were waiting for him. Then he finished his route. But just as he was
coming home, they came for him again. He rode fast, ran into the
house and the boys left.
Then a guy called and said he didn't get his paper. No surprise,
considering how distracted Erik must have been. Erik went out with
the snow shovel from our garage this time, and the boys appeared
again and surrounded him on their bikes. He did the baseball cap
thing again and got away. I asked why they weren't prepared this time
for the cap thing and he says they just aren't too bright. I'm
guessing maybe they thought it was funny the first time and let him
do it again?
Anyway... tomorrow and after... I'm worried these boys will get him
and beat him up or something. I'm torn between leaving him to defend
himself with his cleverness against their numbers and size or maybe
going with him on the route? He has any number of houses to run to if
the boys come after him when he's not on Grandma's street. In fact,
earlier this winter, the boys were chasing him and he went into a
neighbor's house to wait it out. Am I exposing him to danger by
allowing him to keep the route? I don't want to baby him or
overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
I took him out of school!
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[email protected]
May I offer a suggestion as a mother whose sons deal with bullies on a
regular basis? Call the police and tell them what is going on. Ask them to be
at the middle school at the time your son will be and ask him to speak to
these boys and get their names and he will go to their homes and speak to
their families. We live in a village in NE Ohio and just moved in last June.
In this time my sons have had MANY problems simply because they are the "new
kids." I finally got tired of the confrontations and now I call the police.
Today a group of 3 boys stopped my sons and 2 of their friends and called
names & asked them (my boys and their friends) to meet them up at the school
at 2p. They came home and told me and I phoned the police who went up to the
school at 2p, instead of my boys and their friends, and spoke to them. The
police here are trying to stop the fighting....in March there was a situation
where my boys were confronted by 3 OTHER boys and a fight followed (we do not
tolerate or encourage physical confrontations or verbal confrontations and
ask the boys to walk away but at times human emotions take over) and the
police were called. The 3 other boys and my boys and their families (4
families all together) had to attend a meeting up at Town Hall to discuss the
situation and to rectify it. All 7 boys were told by the police that if ANY
of them were in 1 more fight EVER they would end up processed at the police
dept.. The other 3 boys have already ended up processed. Mine have not. The
police are aware that I will call EVERY time there is a problem and they
encourage me to do so. And I will, believe me.
Also....my 10yo will be 11 in August and there is NO WAY he could handle
himself against a group of middle school aged children. I wouldn't allow to
even be in this situation alone. If your son were 13-14 I would say, don't
baby him. But your son is 10 and these children are much older and 10 is
really not old enough to deal with these things. I would go with my son OR I
would call the police.
Just my thoughts.
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
regular basis? Call the police and tell them what is going on. Ask them to be
at the middle school at the time your son will be and ask him to speak to
these boys and get their names and he will go to their homes and speak to
their families. We live in a village in NE Ohio and just moved in last June.
In this time my sons have had MANY problems simply because they are the "new
kids." I finally got tired of the confrontations and now I call the police.
Today a group of 3 boys stopped my sons and 2 of their friends and called
names & asked them (my boys and their friends) to meet them up at the school
at 2p. They came home and told me and I phoned the police who went up to the
school at 2p, instead of my boys and their friends, and spoke to them. The
police here are trying to stop the fighting....in March there was a situation
where my boys were confronted by 3 OTHER boys and a fight followed (we do not
tolerate or encourage physical confrontations or verbal confrontations and
ask the boys to walk away but at times human emotions take over) and the
police were called. The 3 other boys and my boys and their families (4
families all together) had to attend a meeting up at Town Hall to discuss the
situation and to rectify it. All 7 boys were told by the police that if ANY
of them were in 1 more fight EVER they would end up processed at the police
dept.. The other 3 boys have already ended up processed. Mine have not. The
police are aware that I will call EVERY time there is a problem and they
encourage me to do so. And I will, believe me.
Also....my 10yo will be 11 in August and there is NO WAY he could handle
himself against a group of middle school aged children. I wouldn't allow to
even be in this situation alone. If your son were 13-14 I would say, don't
baby him. But your son is 10 and these children are much older and 10 is
really not old enough to deal with these things. I would go with my son OR I
would call the police.
Just my thoughts.
But today these middle schoolers bullied him. He doesn't know them.
They sometimes follow him on his route on their bikes or make stupid
comments. Part of the problem is his route time happens to be right
when middle school gets out. His papers come right at that time and
he has to be done by 5, so he can't wait for the middle school kids
to get home and off the streets.
Anyway, one kid rear-ended Erik (on bikes). Erik heard them
saying, "He's a wimp; let's get him!" And he saw them speed up. So he
jumped off his bike (scraping his knee) just a fraction of a second
before the one kid rammed into his bike. Smart move, I thought. Then,
he grabbed a snow shovel lying in the yard where they were and
reached out with the shovel and flipped off each of the three boys'
baseball caps with the handle. While they were retrieving their caps,
he ran to Grandma's house and got a bandaid for his knee and waited
until the kids left the sidewalk in front of Grandma's where they
were waiting for him. Then he finished his route. But just as he was
coming home, they came for him again. He rode fast, ran into the
house and the boys left.
Then a guy called and said he didn't get his paper. No surprise,
considering how distracted Erik must have been. Erik went out with
the snow shovel from our garage this time, and the boys appeared
again and surrounded him on their bikes. He did the baseball cap
thing again and got away. I asked why they weren't prepared this time
for the cap thing and he says they just aren't too bright. I'm
guessing maybe they thought it was funny the first time and let him
do it again?
Anyway... tomorrow and after... I'm worried these boys will get him
and beat him up or something. I'm torn between leaving him to defend
himself with his cleverness against their numbers and size or maybe
going with him on the route? He has any number of houses to run to if
the boys come after him when he's not on Grandma's street. In fact,
earlier this winter, the boys were chasing him and he went into a
neighbor's house to wait it out. Am I exposing him to danger by
allowing him to keep the route? I don't want to baby him or
overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
I took him out of school!
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
Lynda
In a lot of the states the schools are technically liable for activities
(good and bad) from the door of the school to when they return home. Maybe
talking to the school about the boys would help.
Also, when the kidlets had their daily routes they requested that they be
first on the drop order and that might be an option. On days when they
really needed to get the papers done earlier than usual, I went and picked
them up which might also be an option.
While I would think he would do just fine relying on wits in a one to one
situation, the bully pack instinct usually goes from threatening to
dangerously violent when they are made to look the fool. I would be
seriously concerned.
Lynda
(good and bad) from the door of the school to when they return home. Maybe
talking to the school about the boys would help.
Also, when the kidlets had their daily routes they requested that they be
first on the drop order and that might be an option. On days when they
really needed to get the papers done earlier than usual, I went and picked
them up which might also be an option.
While I would think he would do just fine relying on wits in a one to one
situation, the bully pack instinct usually goes from threatening to
dangerously violent when they are made to look the fool. I would be
seriously concerned.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <yuliwomie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 2:55 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] bullies
> Wow, do I have a lot to say today! Feel free to tell me to shut up
> and go away for a while!
>
> My ds, who is 10 and will be 11 in August has a paper route. This has
> been a fantastic experience for him. He's making friends with all
> sorts of neighbors. He's got this 94 yo buddy who lives alone and is
> thrilled to see him every day. He's handling his own money, very
> wisely, I might add. He's learned to organize his time. He's becoming
> independent about making decisions. It's all been great.
>
> But today these middle schoolers bullied him. He doesn't know them.
> They sometimes follow him on his route on their bikes or make stupid
> comments. Part of the problem is his route time happens to be right
> when middle school gets out. His papers come right at that time and
> he has to be done by 5, so he can't wait for the middle school kids
> to get home and off the streets.
>
> Anyway, one kid rear-ended Erik (on bikes). Erik heard them
> saying, "He's a wimp; let's get him!" And he saw them speed up. So he
> jumped off his bike (scraping his knee) just a fraction of a second
> before the one kid rammed into his bike. Smart move, I thought. Then,
> he grabbed a snow shovel lying in the yard where they were and
> reached out with the shovel and flipped off each of the three boys'
> baseball caps with the handle. While they were retrieving their caps,
> he ran to Grandma's house and got a bandaid for his knee and waited
> until the kids left the sidewalk in front of Grandma's where they
> were waiting for him. Then he finished his route. But just as he was
> coming home, they came for him again. He rode fast, ran into the
> house and the boys left.
>
> Then a guy called and said he didn't get his paper. No surprise,
> considering how distracted Erik must have been. Erik went out with
> the snow shovel from our garage this time, and the boys appeared
> again and surrounded him on their bikes. He did the baseball cap
> thing again and got away. I asked why they weren't prepared this time
> for the cap thing and he says they just aren't too bright. I'm
> guessing maybe they thought it was funny the first time and let him
> do it again?
>
> Anyway... tomorrow and after... I'm worried these boys will get him
> and beat him up or something. I'm torn between leaving him to defend
> himself with his cleverness against their numbers and size or maybe
> going with him on the route? He has any number of houses to run to if
> the boys come after him when he's not on Grandma's street. In fact,
> earlier this winter, the boys were chasing him and he went into a
> neighbor's house to wait it out. Am I exposing him to danger by
> allowing him to keep the route? I don't want to baby him or
> overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
> I took him out of school!
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/17/01 1:44:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lurine@... writes:
I totally agree with this. My sons have had bullies physically attack my
younger 2 sons to provoke my younger 2 sons in to fighting (didn't work, they
came home and I called the police....thankfully THAT bully is NOW a friend of
my older 2 sons and watched out for my younger 2 sons like they were HIS
brothers and as I type is spending the night, along with another boy). A 12+
yo child can somewhat handle bullies better than a 10/almost 11yo can. And
they aren't in exactly the same danger as younger child.
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
lurine@... writes:
While I would think he would do just fine relying on wits in a one to one
situation, the bully pack instinct usually goes from threatening to
dangerously violent when they are made to look the fool. I would be
seriously concerned.
I totally agree with this. My sons have had bullies physically attack my
younger 2 sons to provoke my younger 2 sons in to fighting (didn't work, they
came home and I called the police....thankfully THAT bully is NOW a friend of
my older 2 sons and watched out for my younger 2 sons like they were HIS
brothers and as I type is spending the night, along with another boy). A 12+
yo child can somewhat handle bullies better than a 10/almost 11yo can. And
they aren't in exactly the same danger as younger child.
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/17/01 1:44:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
lurine@... writes:
In my experiences the boys get bullied MORE now than my older 2 did when they
attended school. In the village we live in there are very few homeschoolers
and the kids who bully them do so for a number of reasons......they view the
boys as "weird" because they don't go to school; they "envy" the boys because
they don't have to go to school and deal with boring subjects, uninterested
teachers, pressure to wear the "right" clothes or to listen to the "right"
music, etc.; they feel "threatened" by the boys because the boys don't strive
to follow them, don't care if they "fit in" and they don't care if they are
liked or not by others who do not truly know them; they "envy" them because
they have such a close bond between the 4 of; they "envy" them because they
have such a close relationship with their parents; etc.. These are not only
feelings expressed by kids who don't like the boys....they are also feelings
expressed by their FRIENDS (except for the thinking the boys are weird
part....they think it is cool that the boys are homeschooled).
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
lurine@... writes:
I don't want to baby him or
> overprotect him, but I thought bullying was a thing of the past when
> I took him out of school!
In my experiences the boys get bullied MORE now than my older 2 did when they
attended school. In the village we live in there are very few homeschoolers
and the kids who bully them do so for a number of reasons......they view the
boys as "weird" because they don't go to school; they "envy" the boys because
they don't have to go to school and deal with boring subjects, uninterested
teachers, pressure to wear the "right" clothes or to listen to the "right"
music, etc.; they feel "threatened" by the boys because the boys don't strive
to follow them, don't care if they "fit in" and they don't care if they are
liked or not by others who do not truly know them; they "envy" them because
they have such a close bond between the 4 of; they "envy" them because they
have such a close relationship with their parents; etc.. These are not only
feelings expressed by kids who don't like the boys....they are also feelings
expressed by their FRIENDS (except for the thinking the boys are weird
part....they think it is cool that the boys are homeschooled).
Tracy-Lynn
Wife to Gary for 15 1/2 years
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~14 1/2, Andru ~13,Wylliam~10 1/2 & Danyel ~9
My NEW Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
[email protected]
First, I would tell him to cut out ANY activity with a snow shovel. That's a
weapon, and a potentially lethal one, even if it's plastic. Aiming it toward
anyone's head could cause some eye-out, brain-damage death. That shouldn't
have been repeated.
Even if your child were an expert in hat removal with a snow shovel, the
other kids could lunge, or turn, or jump, and get hurt very badly.
If your son has a snowshovel, they will seem justified in bringing one too,
or a bat or a stick, or some other big weapon.
Driving the route isn't a horror. But sending another kid with him is a
possibility. If you could get photographs of the boys who are bullying him,
that might be really useful. Do you have a telephoto lens and a place to
park unobtrusively? Speaking with their parents once you have photos might
help--not angry and accusing, just ask them to make sure their boys leave
yours alone when he's on his paper route, and other times too. You could
tell them homeschoolers aren't used to bullies, and they might consider that
homeschooling would help their own kids' attitudes. (That's kind of a dream,
but it happens from time to time in unexpected situations.)
But back to the serious problem of the shovel--if he picks up a weapon, those
kids could do something pretty bad and call it self defense. I'd get my son
out of the situation altogether (no paper route if necessary) rather than
allow or encourage him to escalate it by taking up a weapon (even if he
doesn't intend to use it as a weapon per se).
Sandra
weapon, and a potentially lethal one, even if it's plastic. Aiming it toward
anyone's head could cause some eye-out, brain-damage death. That shouldn't
have been repeated.
Even if your child were an expert in hat removal with a snow shovel, the
other kids could lunge, or turn, or jump, and get hurt very badly.
If your son has a snowshovel, they will seem justified in bringing one too,
or a bat or a stick, or some other big weapon.
Driving the route isn't a horror. But sending another kid with him is a
possibility. If you could get photographs of the boys who are bullying him,
that might be really useful. Do you have a telephoto lens and a place to
park unobtrusively? Speaking with their parents once you have photos might
help--not angry and accusing, just ask them to make sure their boys leave
yours alone when he's on his paper route, and other times too. You could
tell them homeschoolers aren't used to bullies, and they might consider that
homeschooling would help their own kids' attitudes. (That's kind of a dream,
but it happens from time to time in unexpected situations.)
But back to the serious problem of the shovel--if he picks up a weapon, those
kids could do something pretty bad and call it self defense. I'd get my son
out of the situation altogether (no paper route if necessary) rather than
allow or encourage him to escalate it by taking up a weapon (even if he
doesn't intend to use it as a weapon per se).
Sandra
Johanna
Do you have a dog? Sometimes just the presence can distract bullies. This
is one thing my son did when in a similar situation. Would it be possible to
pick up his papers at the site? We used to deliver papers and could pick up our
papers at the print building at noon. If this has been a reoccuring situation,
he will only be able to protect himself so far, especially if there are many
boys and only one of him. If you go with him sometimes, they will look for you
and go after him worse when you are not there. Do you know their
parents?
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
[email protected]
You definitely have reason to worry, I would too. We have always had trouble
with bullies and very rude public school kids. ( even at Bible School) Here
they have summer recreation activities that are sponsored by each towns, not
schools. When the kids were younger they liked to go. They could ride the bus
and go to swimming lessons, ice skating, baseball games, and etc. When my
older two girls (age 9 and 11) went alone they complained that the kids
teases them on the bus. It ruined the whole trip. So I had an idea. In order
for my younger boys to go a parent was required to go too. So I going to
using the boys as my excuse to be there and the public school kids cooled it
some. The girls seemed so glad to have me there. Once when we were at an
arcade a big kid (twice my oldest girls size) bullied her. While my oldest
was waiting in line for tickets, with her littlest brother, this boy came
along and physically shoved her to the floor as hard as he could. She told me
later that she is not sure what happened next as instinct just kicked in. (5
yrs of karate by that time) She said she was off the floor before she hardly
touched it, she stepped in front of little brother, turned and nailed the
bully with a palm strike. The good news was that right before the palm strike
hit him in the nose she pulled it back (could have broke his nose). The bad
news was that one of her fingernails did catch his face accidentally and give
him a bad scratch. I had no idea any of this was going on as I was with the
other two kids. Suddenly the youngest was there crying that his sister had
been taken away for fighting. I found her being chewed out by the supervisor
of the group (school teacher). She did not like that at all. Then the older
brother of the bully came and called me every swearing name you could think
of. Said we would be hearing from their parents and lawyer. I said, we are in
the book, please tell them to call. The bully was sitting there crying his
eyes out. That was a little amusing to see. Now I do not condone fighting but
self defense is self defense. The bully's family has four children that are
all very large and tower over all the kids. They are bullies to everyone.
Later at home dad said, if you are going to get in trouble anyway you should
have nailed him good. We never received the calls but we did stop going to
rec activities because my kids said they were not worth the hassles. Too bad.
Later I learned that my oldest was very scared of running into that bully
with a big group of his peers and not being able to defend herself and her
siblings. She always felt that defending her siblings was up to her. We do
not live in town so it never happened and now years have passed and all is
well. I am not sure what I would do if I were you. I agree with Sandra that
the shovel is a bad idea. They may take it from him and hit him with it.
Trying to get the papers earlier and deliver them sooner is a good idea. I
would talk to the paper office and see if they have any ideas. After all they
want those papers delivered and good help is hard to find. If nothing else
works I would probably suggest quitting. Sad, but I would be that concerned
for his safety.
You may ask your son if he would be interested in taking martial arts
classes. Not to fight but it really builds self esteem and they do teach some
great self defense techniques. My kids love them and have been in classes for
many years. I take classes too. I know that they will not help in this
situation. Martial arts changed my two boys, for the better, but that is
another story.
Good luck!!
Candy
with bullies and very rude public school kids. ( even at Bible School) Here
they have summer recreation activities that are sponsored by each towns, not
schools. When the kids were younger they liked to go. They could ride the bus
and go to swimming lessons, ice skating, baseball games, and etc. When my
older two girls (age 9 and 11) went alone they complained that the kids
teases them on the bus. It ruined the whole trip. So I had an idea. In order
for my younger boys to go a parent was required to go too. So I going to
using the boys as my excuse to be there and the public school kids cooled it
some. The girls seemed so glad to have me there. Once when we were at an
arcade a big kid (twice my oldest girls size) bullied her. While my oldest
was waiting in line for tickets, with her littlest brother, this boy came
along and physically shoved her to the floor as hard as he could. She told me
later that she is not sure what happened next as instinct just kicked in. (5
yrs of karate by that time) She said she was off the floor before she hardly
touched it, she stepped in front of little brother, turned and nailed the
bully with a palm strike. The good news was that right before the palm strike
hit him in the nose she pulled it back (could have broke his nose). The bad
news was that one of her fingernails did catch his face accidentally and give
him a bad scratch. I had no idea any of this was going on as I was with the
other two kids. Suddenly the youngest was there crying that his sister had
been taken away for fighting. I found her being chewed out by the supervisor
of the group (school teacher). She did not like that at all. Then the older
brother of the bully came and called me every swearing name you could think
of. Said we would be hearing from their parents and lawyer. I said, we are in
the book, please tell them to call. The bully was sitting there crying his
eyes out. That was a little amusing to see. Now I do not condone fighting but
self defense is self defense. The bully's family has four children that are
all very large and tower over all the kids. They are bullies to everyone.
Later at home dad said, if you are going to get in trouble anyway you should
have nailed him good. We never received the calls but we did stop going to
rec activities because my kids said they were not worth the hassles. Too bad.
Later I learned that my oldest was very scared of running into that bully
with a big group of his peers and not being able to defend herself and her
siblings. She always felt that defending her siblings was up to her. We do
not live in town so it never happened and now years have passed and all is
well. I am not sure what I would do if I were you. I agree with Sandra that
the shovel is a bad idea. They may take it from him and hit him with it.
Trying to get the papers earlier and deliver them sooner is a good idea. I
would talk to the paper office and see if they have any ideas. After all they
want those papers delivered and good help is hard to find. If nothing else
works I would probably suggest quitting. Sad, but I would be that concerned
for his safety.
You may ask your son if he would be interested in taking martial arts
classes. Not to fight but it really builds self esteem and they do teach some
great self defense techniques. My kids love them and have been in classes for
many years. I take classes too. I know that they will not help in this
situation. Martial arts changed my two boys, for the better, but that is
another story.
Good luck!!
Candy
Juli
I've been reading everyone's great thoughts about my
son's paper route. I love the idea of taking a
picture. One problem is that Erik doesn't know their
names, so I can't talk to their parents. But, some
other kids were around the second time, and we've told
him to ask those kids what the bullies' names are. We
didn't know he brought the shovel the second time. In
fact, I wouldn't have let him go alone the second
time, but I had just told him to go pick up some books
he'd put on hold from the library (a block away in the
other direction) and that's where I thought he was
heading. I guess I was NOT being aware. My husband
sort of pointed that out.
Erik says he's not afraid of the bullies. But I liked
the idea of driving the route, not with him, but sort
of following and watching in a way that the bullies
wouldn't know I was with him. And I'll have a camera.
Just in case.
I should have thought of the picture. Here's one of
those school stories I was asked not to tell, but this
one is relevant here. Erik was in second grade gym
class, horsing around in a non-violent but silly way
with a boy. The gym teacher apparently called the
boys, who didn't hear her. So she marched over and
GRABBED them by the front collars of their shirts,
GOUGING four DEEP scratches into Erik's neck with her
fingernails. When he got home, my husband took LOTS of
pictures, and we brought these to the principal. Turns
out there was a student education major observing
there who would NOT stand up for the gym teacher.
That, with the pictures, got the teacher in trouble,
but not much. One of the things that led us to
homeschooling...
Juli
=====
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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son's paper route. I love the idea of taking a
picture. One problem is that Erik doesn't know their
names, so I can't talk to their parents. But, some
other kids were around the second time, and we've told
him to ask those kids what the bullies' names are. We
didn't know he brought the shovel the second time. In
fact, I wouldn't have let him go alone the second
time, but I had just told him to go pick up some books
he'd put on hold from the library (a block away in the
other direction) and that's where I thought he was
heading. I guess I was NOT being aware. My husband
sort of pointed that out.
Erik says he's not afraid of the bullies. But I liked
the idea of driving the route, not with him, but sort
of following and watching in a way that the bullies
wouldn't know I was with him. And I'll have a camera.
Just in case.
I should have thought of the picture. Here's one of
those school stories I was asked not to tell, but this
one is relevant here. Erik was in second grade gym
class, horsing around in a non-violent but silly way
with a boy. The gym teacher apparently called the
boys, who didn't hear her. So she marched over and
GRABBED them by the front collars of their shirts,
GOUGING four DEEP scratches into Erik's neck with her
fingernails. When he got home, my husband took LOTS of
pictures, and we brought these to the principal. Turns
out there was a student education major observing
there who would NOT stand up for the gym teacher.
That, with the pictures, got the teacher in trouble,
but not much. One of the things that led us to
homeschooling...
Juli
=====
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
>arts
> You may ask your son if he would be interested in taking martial
> classes. Not to fight but it really builds self esteem and they doteach some
> great self defense techniques. My kids love them and have been inclasses for
> many years. I take classes too. I know that they will not help inthis
> situation. Martial arts changed my two boys, for the better, butthat is
> another story.Just on this vein, one of the favourite phrases on another list I'm
>
> Good luck!!
> Candy
on is about making oneself 'difficult and dangerous prey.' Even non-
martial T'ai Chi will alter one's bearing and posture to make one
seem a more formidable opponent, and while I wouldn't advocate
changing oneself solely because someone else takes exception to how
you look (or whatever) I think this is important to know.
Confidence shows in so many ways, when you have it. I know that
greater numbers will always be a problem, but still, we can all make
ourselves 'difficult and dangerous prey' in lots of different ways :-)
Tracy
Juli
No, we don't have a dog. But I will find out about
picking up the papers at the site. That's a great
idea.
Thing is, we only have one vehicle and dh often takes
that to work. Still, it's something we could do some
days. Thanks! Juli
--- Johanna <saninocencio1@...> wrote:
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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picking up the papers at the site. That's a great
idea.
Thing is, we only have one vehicle and dh often takes
that to work. Still, it's something we could do some
days. Thanks! Juli
--- Johanna <saninocencio1@...> wrote:
> Do you have a dog? Sometimes just the presence can=====
> distract bullies. This is one thing my son did when
> in a similar situation. Would it be possible to pick
> up his papers at the site? We used to deliver papers
> and could pick up our papers at the print building
> at noon.
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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Juli
> You may ask your son if he would be interested inWe keep bringing that up. NOT interested. Most of his
> taking martial arts
> classes.
friends are in Soo Bahk Do, but he just does not want
to do that. Juli
=====
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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[email protected]
If this was being done to an adult, the adult would call the police. I
find it so sad that kids in our society have to deal with things like this
and feel helpless to put a real stop to the problem. I believe you should
call the police, try to find out who the kids are so their parents can be
contacted, and maybe try speaking to the kids themselves. Also, some schools
have a policy that if kids are doing things like that on their way home from
school, they can still be disciplined by the school, so again, if you could
find out who they are...My parents work at a middle school and a lot of
times, they use or have others use the school yearbook if they don't know the
names.
Your son sounds like a great kid!
Lucy
find it so sad that kids in our society have to deal with things like this
and feel helpless to put a real stop to the problem. I believe you should
call the police, try to find out who the kids are so their parents can be
contacted, and maybe try speaking to the kids themselves. Also, some schools
have a policy that if kids are doing things like that on their way home from
school, they can still be disciplined by the school, so again, if you could
find out who they are...My parents work at a middle school and a lot of
times, they use or have others use the school yearbook if they don't know the
names.
Your son sounds like a great kid!
Lucy
Juli
We went on a spy mission! The papers actually came
early, but when it was time for school to get out,
Aubrey and I got in the van and discreetly followed
Erik. When he was finished, we followed him home and
he got in the van. Then we parked in an unobtrusive
spot and watched for kids. A pack of five boys came
along, and Erik thought one of them might be one of
the bullies, but he couldn't tell because the baseball
cap was shading his eyes. So we went around the
corner, and I parked, and Erik and Aubrey got out and
nonchalantly walked past the group, while I was ready
to spring out of the van, snapping photos and looking
intimidating. But it wasn't the right boy. After they
passed the boys, Aubrey grabbed Erik and was giving
him a noogie when I pullled up, so I snapped some
pictures of them, and as they climbed in, I said, "I
got it! A picture of the bully! The little one in the
pink socks!" They laughed.
If and when our spy mission succeeds, we'll try to
follow the boys home without them noticing, so I'll
know where to find the parents. If that doesn't work,
we'll take the pictures to the school to find out who
they are.
Thanks for the help on this, and I'll shut up about it
now unless the spy mission succeeds. Juli
=====
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
early, but when it was time for school to get out,
Aubrey and I got in the van and discreetly followed
Erik. When he was finished, we followed him home and
he got in the van. Then we parked in an unobtrusive
spot and watched for kids. A pack of five boys came
along, and Erik thought one of them might be one of
the bullies, but he couldn't tell because the baseball
cap was shading his eyes. So we went around the
corner, and I parked, and Erik and Aubrey got out and
nonchalantly walked past the group, while I was ready
to spring out of the van, snapping photos and looking
intimidating. But it wasn't the right boy. After they
passed the boys, Aubrey grabbed Erik and was giving
him a noogie when I pullled up, so I snapped some
pictures of them, and as they climbed in, I said, "I
got it! A picture of the bully! The little one in the
pink socks!" They laughed.
If and when our spy mission succeeds, we'll try to
follow the boys home without them noticing, so I'll
know where to find the parents. If that doesn't work,
we'll take the pictures to the school to find out who
they are.
Thanks for the help on this, and I'll shut up about it
now unless the spy mission succeeds. Juli
=====
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself --Galileo
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/17/01 2:59:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LASaliger@... writes:
Luckily my guys know to come and tell me the minute there is violence being
suggested. It took awhile to get the message from their ears to their brains,
though. They didn't want to be teased (at their ages, especially the teens)
for running home and telling "mommy and daddy" but they finally understand
that being safe is far more important the names kids may call them for
telling my dh and I. Our police dept. is very concerned about the amount of
fighting around here and want to stop it (we live in a village of about 1500
people ). Sadly most of the parents of these bullies could care less that
their children (boys AND girls) are this way. I can't even tell you how many
times my sons have been physically attacked by GIRLS and the boys tell me
how unfair that is, if boys can't hit girls then girls shouldn't be allowed
to hit boys. I HAVE tried talking to parents....it has never worked.
So many of the kids around here labeled as trouble makers AREN'T (mine have
this label).....they are kids that eventually get tired of the names other
kids call their parents/comments they make about their parents (especially
me...comments like "how much does your mom charge", "does your mom take a
credit card--after last night I want a running bill", etc..) , them (my sons
have heard MANY racist comments based on their being Jewish) and they "stand
up for themselves". OR...the bullies tell their story and sound all innocent.
I believe in the "it takes a village to raise up a child" philosophy and I
WELCOME the kids labeled as trouble makers in to my home. The 3 boys my older
2 sons hang around with (the 5 of them are a group of close friends) are
called trouble makers and they come here every single day, have spent the
night a few times and they LOVE being here. I always tell them how much I
appreciate them following our rules, tell them what great kids they are, etc.
and their faces just shine.....2 of the boys do NOT get this at home! I told
one "if I ever find out you got in a fight, you aren't coming here anymore"
and you know what? he has been walking away from confrontations, not mouthing
off back to name callers, etc.. He likes coming here too much to mess it up.
Last night we had 2 of the boys stay the night and they wanted to stay again
tonight!
Anyway...sorry for rambling. It's late and I get a little hot under the
collar when I think of how many bullies wouldn't be bullies if they just had
parents who cared enough to say enough when a parent tells them what their
child has done instead of say "not my kid". If an adult came here and told me
my boys had done something wrong you can bet that I would listen to them and
I would have a long talk with me sons!
Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91
My Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
LASaliger@... writes:
. I
find it so sad that kids in our society have to deal with things like this
and feel helpless to put a real stop to the problem. I believe you should
call the police, try to find out who the kids are so their parents can be
contacted, and maybe try speaking to the kids themselves.
Luckily my guys know to come and tell me the minute there is violence being
suggested. It took awhile to get the message from their ears to their brains,
though. They didn't want to be teased (at their ages, especially the teens)
for running home and telling "mommy and daddy" but they finally understand
that being safe is far more important the names kids may call them for
telling my dh and I. Our police dept. is very concerned about the amount of
fighting around here and want to stop it (we live in a village of about 1500
people ). Sadly most of the parents of these bullies could care less that
their children (boys AND girls) are this way. I can't even tell you how many
times my sons have been physically attacked by GIRLS and the boys tell me
how unfair that is, if boys can't hit girls then girls shouldn't be allowed
to hit boys. I HAVE tried talking to parents....it has never worked.
So many of the kids around here labeled as trouble makers AREN'T (mine have
this label).....they are kids that eventually get tired of the names other
kids call their parents/comments they make about their parents (especially
me...comments like "how much does your mom charge", "does your mom take a
credit card--after last night I want a running bill", etc..) , them (my sons
have heard MANY racist comments based on their being Jewish) and they "stand
up for themselves". OR...the bullies tell their story and sound all innocent.
I believe in the "it takes a village to raise up a child" philosophy and I
WELCOME the kids labeled as trouble makers in to my home. The 3 boys my older
2 sons hang around with (the 5 of them are a group of close friends) are
called trouble makers and they come here every single day, have spent the
night a few times and they LOVE being here. I always tell them how much I
appreciate them following our rules, tell them what great kids they are, etc.
and their faces just shine.....2 of the boys do NOT get this at home! I told
one "if I ever find out you got in a fight, you aren't coming here anymore"
and you know what? he has been walking away from confrontations, not mouthing
off back to name callers, etc.. He likes coming here too much to mess it up.
Last night we had 2 of the boys stay the night and they wanted to stay again
tonight!
Anyway...sorry for rambling. It's late and I get a little hot under the
collar when I think of how many bullies wouldn't be bullies if they just had
parents who cared enough to say enough when a parent tells them what their
child has done instead of say "not my kid". If an adult came here and told me
my boys had done something wrong you can bet that I would listen to them and
I would have a long talk with me sons!
Tracy
Wife to Gary since 10/22/85
Unschooling Mom to 4 sweet boys:
Crisstoffer ~ born 8/29/86,
Andru ~ born 1/8/88,
Wylliam ~ born 8/17/90,
&
Danyel ~ born 12/12/91
My Homepage
Our Family Photo Album Index
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/17/01 11:53:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Momma24Ratz@... writes:
<< I think of how many bullies wouldn't be bullies if they just had
parents who cared enough to say enough when a parent tells them what their
child has done instead of say "not my kid". If an adult came here and told
me
my boys had done something wrong you can bet that I would listen to them and
I would have a long talk with me sons! >>
Wow, you sound like a great influence in these kids' lives and in your
town. If more people took your approach, it really would have a major
impact. I have run into the mentality you describe with the parents of the
bullies, back when we lived in neighborhoods. (We live out in the boondocks
now so we drive into town for park days and other things with the homeschool
group.) It's not surprising that something is lacking in the parents of the
worst bullies. I know that kids can learn some mean behaviors from other
kids but when kids make racist comments and are particularly cruel and
violent, I have usually found that they've learned most of those attitudes
from their parents.
If the parents are totally uncooperative and there aren't any words that
seem to be reaching the kids, I would still believe in going to the police
and the school. But what you're accomplishing with the kids you can reach is
definitely the best solution!
Lucy
Momma24Ratz@... writes:
<< I think of how many bullies wouldn't be bullies if they just had
parents who cared enough to say enough when a parent tells them what their
child has done instead of say "not my kid". If an adult came here and told
me
my boys had done something wrong you can bet that I would listen to them and
I would have a long talk with me sons! >>
Wow, you sound like a great influence in these kids' lives and in your
town. If more people took your approach, it really would have a major
impact. I have run into the mentality you describe with the parents of the
bullies, back when we lived in neighborhoods. (We live out in the boondocks
now so we drive into town for park days and other things with the homeschool
group.) It's not surprising that something is lacking in the parents of the
worst bullies. I know that kids can learn some mean behaviors from other
kids but when kids make racist comments and are particularly cruel and
violent, I have usually found that they've learned most of those attitudes
from their parents.
If the parents are totally uncooperative and there aren't any words that
seem to be reaching the kids, I would still believe in going to the police
and the school. But what you're accomplishing with the kids you can reach is
definitely the best solution!
Lucy