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In a message dated 4/15/01 10:41:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
yuliwomie@... writes:

<< To me, it seemed to be a determination from all
involved, from the very beginning, to be RIGHT. Or to
argue for the sake of argument. >>

I don't know Sandra or Lynda but I believe that they, like myself, were
sincerely presenting their views on the issues being discussed. Sometimes
disagreements can seem pretty heated but I believe the key to keeping it at a
decent level is to not resort to personal attacks. As much as we may
disagree with someone on an issue, I think it is wrong to make statements
about her/him as a person, as in "You must be really insecure, selfish,
ignorant, negative, etc...." I believe it is better to presume that the
person has a good motive just as we want that same presumption made about us
when we speak up about our beliefs.

Lucy

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In a message dated 4/15/2001 2:53:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LASaliger@... writes:

<< As much as we may
disagree with someone on an issue, I think it is wrong to make statements
about her/him as a person, as in "You must be really insecure, selfish,
ignorant, negative, etc...." I believe it is better to presume that the
person has a good motive just as we want that same presumption made about us
when we speak up about our beliefs.

Lucy >>

I agree with what you write here, Lucy, but -- and this has been my sticking
point in these debate/discussions before -- the TONE can be unfriendly,
supercilious, condescending, sarcastic -- without ever actually stooping to
personal attacks, although those occur as well. I'm mystified when people
claim that they can't see this happening in one of these discussions. Really?
Without out-and-out name-calling and mudslinging you can't see the lack of
respect? The absence of love?

However, I have FINALLY learned that this type of discussion can be really
fulfilling and mind-expanding for some people. And who am I to deny them
their fun? I can skim. I can delete.

I got Sandra's point right away and didn't have a problem with the example
she used to make it. I stuck around to see if someone would spell leech
correctly. (I mean maybe it started out "leech" and morphed into "leach"
later in the discussion. Why did it start to bug me so much?) Molliere was
news to me. And I promptly forgot how to spell it. :(

You're all wonderful, powerful, strong, opinion-sharing women. (Except I
guess now I stand out as the suck-up.) I feel like pale pastel next to all
the crimson and saffron and fuchsia and rich chocolate brown and ...

But I digress ...

Laura

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In a message dated 4/15/01 1:00:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
parrishml@... writes:

<< You're all wonderful, powerful, strong, opinion-sharing women. (Except I
guess now I stand out as the suck-up.) I feel like pale pastel next to all
the crimson and saffron and fuchsia and rich chocolate brown and ...
>>

Laura, I don't at all see you as the suck-up! Sometimes, I myself
wonder if I'm coming across that way. We all have things we feel strongly
about and believe in passionately, whether they be unschooling, the
environment, keeping a positive tone, attachment parenting, etc....I always
find that it is hard to find the right balance between being serene, loving,
peaceful, etc. and having the courage of my convictions, standing up for what
I believe is right, and so on.
I don't know if you will be familiar with these two women, especially
the second, but a major part of me wants to be like Marmie in Little Women
and another part of me wants to be like Joan Baez, the 60s (and onward) folk
protest singer who marched with Martin Luther King and has spoken out very
strongly on her beliefs. I try to figure out what it means to be tolerant of
other views and how far that goes and how to balance that with honesty and
courage. To me, it isn't at all easy and I am always looking for better ways
for myself.
It is true that debates often become too sarcastic and angry. I think
the only way to try to keep this from happening is to keep reminding
ourselves that the other person's motive is most likely good and that we
don't want to personally wound them, even as we debate the subject at hand
vigorously if we are so inclined.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Laura....

Lucy