Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

Hey everyone,
I'm really curious about unschooling and learning to read. My 7yod does not
yet read (much...she can read a few words). I've read many articles saying
things like: a) just keep reading to the child and s/he will learn to read.
b) When s/he's ready, she will read, whether it's at age 4 or even as late
as nine or ten.
She has excelled at all the pre-reading skills and many thought she would be
reading by the time she was 5.
This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and learning,
but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
with this?
Any ideas, thoughts on this?
Thanks all!
Susan

Lisa Bugg

I have 4 kids, currently they are almost 17, 9.5, 7.5, and almost 6. The
oldest was taught to read between 5-6, she gobbled it up and was reading
fluently quickly.

The second child began learning at about 5. He took it very slowly and
rather privately. He would use computer programs and ask questions. By 6
he had lost interest and only sort of played around with letters/sounds,
with no real progress. He also didn't *get* phonics. By 8 I wanted him to
be able to read, as he wanted to play computer and video games that needed
someone to read to him. Only this spring and summer, after he turned 9 in
January, did his reading take off. Now you can't stop him, he's reading
everything. All I did was provide the computer games and paper and pencils.
I also answered his questions and read to him a bit. (not a lot, just a
bit).

My third child is doesn't even know his ABC's, couldn't care less, and has
no plans to read anytime soon. He did cry tonight because his brother
wouldn't read the directions to Pokemon Snapshot to him. I don't see him
even trying to read until much later. Doing is this child's middle name. He
takes things apart, he builds things. Sometimes he tries to rebuild what he
took apart, but not often. <g>

My 4th child is another daughter and she's actively asked for lessons. She
was sorely disappointed that one 15 minute lesson didn't solve her desire to
read fluently. She's willing to play around with sounds and letters and
writing with me. She's absorbing things, but I have a clue as to when it
will click for her.

The thing I would look for is frustration at not being able to read. Is she
showing signs of wanting to read, or to be able to read fluently? Or is this
just you??

There is a great essay in the back of one of the Colfax books, _Hard Time in
Paradise_ I think. Of Daffodils and Diesels is the name of the essay. It
discusses the idea that when a child is reading for their information they
are NOT actively figuring things out on their own. They are trusting a book
to tell them about things. Since your child is not reading, just what is
she doing with the time others spend reading? Aren't those things more
appropriate for her at the moment? My 7.5 year old who builds is working
very hard on understanding his world, his physical world. When he has a
handle on all that he wants to know there, he'll shift and move on into the
abstract world of reading. I suspect the same is true for your child. When
she's finished the stage she's currently in, she'll have room for other
things like reading.

Breathe. Everything in it's own time. :)

Lisa
> Hey everyone,
> I'm really curious about unschooling and learning to read. My 7yod does
not
> yet read (much...she can read a few words). I've read many articles
saying
> things like: a) just keep reading to the child and s/he will learn to
read.
> b) When s/he's ready, she will read, whether it's at age 4 or even as
late
> as nine or ten.>>
> She has excelled at all the pre-reading skills and many thought she would
be
> reading by the time she was 5.
> This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and
learning,
> but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
> with this?
> Any ideas, thoughts on this?
> Thanks all!
> Susan
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Congrats to our GROW TO GIVE winners, ZENtertainment & ROTInews!
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>

[email protected])

There's a URL for this one. It's
http://www.angelfire.com/al/dayspringacademy/diesels.html
Enjoy
Barb E

>From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>There is a great essay in the back of one of the Colfax books, _Hard Time in
>Paradise_ I think. Of Daffodils and Diesels is the name of the essay. It
>discusses the idea that when a child is reading for their information they
>are NOT actively figuring things out on their own.

[email protected]

In a message dated 08/10/1999 11:43:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fuerst@... writes:

<< She has excelled at all the pre-reading skills and many thought she would
be
reading by the time she was 5.
This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and learning,
but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
with this >>
Some kids read at 4 or 5, and some read later. My now 11 yo dd didn't
read fluently until around 7 1/2 or 8. One night she told me that she would
read to me. She then picked up Little Men and proceeded. My youngest dd (7
1/2) isn't a fluent reader. But she loves the process and that is what is
important. Last night she wanted to go to bed early so we would have plenty
of thime to read.
Wait--she'll read when she is ready.
Debra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/11/1999 12:36:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LisaBugg@... writes:

<<
Breathe. Everything in it's own time. :)
>>

Thank you for throwing this out there. My daughters, ages 7 and 5, also do
not read yet, although the 7 y/o does recognize some words, and they both
know all their letters and some sounds. My daughters also have trouble with
phonics. My 7 y/o had gone to kindergarten in ps, and failed. I had said
that if I couldn't teach them to read this year, then I would send them to ps
next year to learn. My 11 y/o son has learning disabilities, including
dyslexia. He knew how to read, but he HATED it. But for some reason over
this summer, he has totally gotten into reading and is never without a book
in his hand. I swear, I didn't do anything differently!

Anyway, I wanted to thank you for sharing your concern, and I want to thank
Lisa for her kind response. You made me feel a lot better today too.

Jill

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/10/99 7:43:40 PM, fuerst@... writes:

<<This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and learning,
but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
with this?>>

You could try tossing out a little challenge. However, I think it works
better if you keep it fun.

You might want to look for Peggy Kaye's book, Games for Reading, at your
library. She has more than thirty suggestions, including collecting words in
a word box, making giant words and playing word bingo.

Betsy

Joel Hawthorne

Seconding the motion to "Relax". There is so much evidence that different
people learn things in different ways and at different rates. Your daughter will
learn to read in her own good time. We have two daughters, first one an early
reader which of course eliminated the worry for us. And I know it easier to say
relax when your kid read at three than it is when your kid is ten and doesn't
read a word. There are lots of kids who didn't learn to read until their teens
some become avid readers and others don't care for it much. AnD ....I always
like to point out that there are wonderful, loving, kind, happy, good people
who can't read a word. And there are hideously evil doing folk who are excellent
readers.

"Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst" wrote:

> From: "Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
>
> Hey everyone,
> I'm really curious about unschooling and learning to read. My 7yod does not
> yet read (much...she can read a few words). I've read many articles saying
> things like: a) just keep reading to the child and s/he will learn to read.
> b) When s/he's ready, she will read, whether it's at age 4 or even as late
> as nine or ten.
> She has excelled at all the pre-reading skills and many thought she would be
> reading by the time she was 5.
> This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and learning,
> but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
> with this?
> Any ideas, thoughts on this?
> Thanks all!
> Susan
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Congrats to our GROW TO GIVE winners, ZENtertainment & ROTInews!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Check out ONElist's latest program, FRIENDS & FAMILY. See homepage.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

Amy Aybar

-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Bugg [mailto:LisaBugg@...]

<<Since your child is not reading, just what is she doing with the time
others spend reading? Aren't those things more appropriate for her at the
moment? My 7.5 year old who builds is working very hard on understanding
his world, his physical world. When he has a handle on all that he wants to
know there, he'll shift and move on into the abstract world of reading. I
suspect the same is true for your child. When she's finished the stage
she's currently in, she'll have room for other things like reading.>>

Wow!! What a great take on the workings of a child's mind. Thanks for the
insight.

Amy
Mom to Carlos (6) and Sasha (now 4!!)

Amy Aybar

Unschooling does not mean you can't use books. Whatever works for the child
that the child is WILLING to do still constitutes unschooling. I'd say see
if she wants to learn and how she would like to go about doing it, but give
her options. Maybe show her different ways that you could help her with it.

I used the book Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons with my son
when he was 3.5. Now he reads...well it totally amazes me the things he can
read. I didn't finish the book with him. He told me when we were about 3/4
of the way through it that that was enough of this book. From there on he
figured out everything for himself with me reading, reading, reading still.

Amy
Mom to Carlos (6) and Sasha (now 4!!)


-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst [mailto:fuerst@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 11:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Just wanted to throw this out there...


From: "Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst" <fuerst@...>


Hey everyone,
I'm really curious about unschooling and learning to read. My 7yod does not
yet read (much...she can read a few words). I've read many articles saying
things like: a) just keep reading to the child and s/he will learn to read.
b) When s/he's ready, she will read, whether it's at age 4 or even as late
as nine or ten.
She has excelled at all the pre-reading skills and many thought she would be
reading by the time she was 5.
This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and learning,
but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
with this?
Any ideas, thoughts on this?
Thanks all!
Susan


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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com

Lisa Bugg

I really like Peggy Kaye's book. I flip through it every so often. Matter
of fact she has 3 books that are good. There is Games for Reading, Games for
Learning and Games for Math. My library has them all.

LisaKK
----- Original Message -----
From: <ECSamHill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Just wanted to throw this out there...


> From: ECSamHill@...
>
>
> In a message dated 8/10/99 7:43:40 PM, fuerst@... writes:
>
> <<This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and
learning,
> but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
> with this?>>
>
> You could try tossing out a little challenge. However, I think it works
> better if you keep it fun.
>
> You might want to look for Peggy Kaye's book, Games for Reading, at your
> library. She has more than thirty suggestions, including collecting words
in
> a word box, making giant words and playing word bingo.
>
> Betsy
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY...
> ...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to
> http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

Jill, sorry it's taken me awhile to get back! I am glad to know I'm not
the 'only one'! I was beginning to think every hs child I met could read by
age 5! My 7yo seems to be just where your dd is with reading. I keep
waiting and waiting for her to suddenly 'take off' with it. (as some
unschoolers articles proclaim). After reading those almost a year ago, I
was patient for awhile and relaxed about it....I just thought by now she'd
be there...it's partly pressure from the outside; lots of neighbors think
I'm doing an injustice by HSing and I can't wait to prove them wrong!!
One person constantly talks about how her son is *expected* to be reading
independently at the start of first grade. She has also wondered aloud to
me...what will I do if I send my dd back to school and she tests *behind*
her grade level!!! (GRRRRRR!!!!)
I believe my dd will be fine, I admit I hope she will excel and find her
talents.
I am thankful for the supportive comments....it's just what I need now,
until I regain my confidence in my dd's going at her own pace.
Thanks, Susan in KY


>From: Jastypes@...
>
>
>Thank you for throwing this out there. My daughters, ages 7 and 5, also do
>not read yet, although the 7 y/o does recognize some words, and they both
>know all their letters and some sounds. My daughters also have trouble
with
>phonics. My 7 y/o had gone to kindergarten in ps, and failed. I had said
>that if I couldn't teach them to read this year, then I would send them to
ps
>next year to learn. My 11 y/o son has learning disabilities, including
>dyslexia. He knew how to read, but he HATED it. But for some reason over
>this summer, he has totally gotten into reading and is never without a book
>in his hand. I swear, I didn't do anything differently!
>
>Anyway, I wanted to thank you for sharing your concern, and I want to thank
>Lisa for her kind response. You made me feel a lot better today too.
>
>Jill
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist announces "FRIENDS & FAMILY!"
>For details, including our weekly drawing, go to
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

-

>From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
>I have 4 kids, currently they are almost 17, 9.5, 7.5, and almost 6. The
>oldest was taught to read between 5-6, she gobbled it up and was reading
>fluently quickly.

>The thing I would look for is frustration at not being able to read. Is
she
>showing signs of wanting to read, or to be able to read fluently? Or is
this
>just you??

She shows signs of wanting to read...loves to write....copies words from
cereal boxes, magazines etc.; she looks at books every night before going
to sleep 15-20 mins. And part is me, too, wondering how to guide her to
put it together, without trying to force it on her if she's not
ready/willing.

>
Of Daffodils and Diesels is the name of the essay.
Since your child is not reading, just what is
>she doing with the time others spend reading? Aren't those things more
>appropriate for her at the moment? My 7.5 year old who builds is working
>very hard on understanding his world, his physical world. When he has a
>handle on all that he wants to know there, he'll shift and move on into the
>abstract world of reading. I suspect the same is true for your child.
When
>she's finished the stage she's currently in, she'll have room for other
>things like reading.
>
>Breathe. Everything in it's own time. :)
>
>
>
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Your support has been very helpful!!
:-)
Susan

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

.
>
>You might want to look for Peggy Kaye's book, Games for Reading, at your
>library. She has more than thirty suggestions, including collecting words
in
>a word box, making giant words and playing word bingo.
>
>Betsy
>
Thank you to Betsy and to EVERYONE!!
I really appreciate the supportive thoughts, comments, and resource
referrals!!
I notice so much sociatal pressure in learning to read early.... I know my
dd is a bright, inquisitive person.
I am getting more grounded about the reading issue again!!
And the trusting her to lead in her exploration of the world issue!!
Susan
PS. Maybe I can remember to update everyone in a few months to see where
she and I are at, and how we proceeded from here.

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

I love Libraries!!!!



>From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
>
>I really like Peggy Kaye's book. I flip through it every so often. Matter
>of fact she has 3 books that are good. There is Games for Reading, Games
for
>Learning and Games for Math. My library has them all.
>
>LisaKK
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <ECSamHill@...>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Just wanted to throw this out there...
>
>
>> From: ECSamHill@...
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/10/99 7:43:40 PM, fuerst@... writes:
>>
>> <<This is causing me some anxiety.... I want to enjoy her growth and
>learning,
>> but feel she can accomplish this. I wonder if she needs to be challenged
>> with this?>>
>>
>> You could try tossing out a little challenge. However, I think it works
>> better if you keep it fun.
>>
>> You might want to look for Peggy Kaye's book, Games for Reading, at your
>> library. She has more than thirty suggestions, including collecting
words
>in
>> a word box, making giant words and playing word bingo.
>>
>> Betsy
>>
>> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>>
>> Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY...
>> ...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to
>> http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check it out!
>> http://www.unschooling.com
>>
>>
>
>
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>This week's FRIENDS & FAMILY WINNER!
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>

Sandi Chelan

Susan,
Our 8.5 yo dd went from reading a few words at age 7 to complete the C. S.
Lewis "Narnia" series a few weeks ago. It was amazing to watch! I started
reading Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House" books to her when she was 6.
We loved those! We found some McGuffy readers, including the primer, at a
used bookstore and she read aloud to me from these. We had fun with this
because the vignettes were from Laura's time and these would have been the
kind of readers she used. Early on, she would get very frustrated if I
tried to get her to sound a word out. She wanted to point at the words she
didn't know and have me read them. She finally patiently explained to me
that she was learning to sound out the words by watching (and hearing) me do
it. It must have worked because before long she was reading independently.
Have fun! Play!
Sandi Chelan-Jackson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst <fuerst@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Just wanted to throw this out there...


>From: "Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
>
>
>.
>>
>>You might want to look for Peggy Kaye's book, Games for Reading, at your
>>library. She has more than thirty suggestions, including collecting words
>in
>>a word box, making giant words and playing word bingo.
>>
>>Betsy
>>
>Thank you to Betsy and to EVERYONE!!
>I really appreciate the supportive thoughts, comments, and resource
>referrals!!
>I notice so much sociatal pressure in learning to read early.... I know my
>dd is a bright, inquisitive person.
>I am getting more grounded about the reading issue again!!
>And the trusting her to lead in her exploration of the world issue!!
>Susan
>PS. Maybe I can remember to update everyone in a few months to see where
>she and I are at, and how we proceeded from here.
>
>
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>
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><a href=" http://www.onelist.com/info/news.html ">Click Here</a>
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>http://www.unschooling.com
>

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

>From: "Sandi Chelan" <S-Chelan@...>
>
>Susan,
>Our 8.5 yo dd went from reading a few words at age 7 to complete the C. S.
>Lewis "Narnia" series a few weeks ago. It was amazing to watch! I started
>reading Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House" books to her when she was 6.
>We loved those! We found some McGuffy readers, including the primer, at a
>used bookstore and she read aloud to me from these. We had fun with this
>because the vignettes were from Laura's time and these would have been the
>kind of readers she used. Early on, she would get very frustrated if I
>tried to get her to sound a word out. She wanted to point at the words she
>didn't know and have me read them. >
She sounds alot like my dau!! We have read some of the Laura Ingalls
Wilder, too. That and the American girls books, which she loves. We did
get "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" and have presented it to
her. She is cooperating with the lessons, but we're not following
instructions exactly. We try to go through 2 lessons/day. We'll see...if
she gets bored, I'll stop and let her go.
She wants us to read her every word she's not absolutely sure about, but
has given us no feedback. I was beginning to wonder if she was afraid i
wouldn't read to her anymore once she can read on har own.
Susan in KY