missing kids, and subject shift
[email protected]
This is a subject slide.
<< I think anually there are maybe 100 cases. So say,
two a state. Most of the abductions are custody cases. >>
Speaking from a state with 1.6 million people or so, we're not due our two
per year from those stats.
We have more missing teens girls, and it's hard to impossible to say which of
those were runaways or date-gone-very-wrong things, as opposed to
drive-by-and-grab.
I try sometimes and fail to imagine how I would cope with the mysterious loss
of a child.
My kids have a friend who ran away (he's here at the moment, having spent the
night along with some others from the anime club which meets almost all night
Fridays at an anime shop nearby). He's also a homeschooler. When I knew he
was not where his mom thought he should be (one busy Saturday six or seven
weeks ago), my first priority was to find out whether he was okay and what
his intentions were. I threatened a kid with police coming to ask her if she
didn't give me a phone number I needed. Within half an hour I knew several
places where he wasn't, I knew he had been delivered to a shelter, and that
he was safe. I told the mom he was safe at a shelter without giving her the
other information.
It was two days before his 17th birthday and she was treating him like he was
ten. I had suggested earlier the same day (the second time she called me,
before he was even due home) that she was keeping him on too short a leash,
that he was a good, thoughtful guy and should be cut some slack.
From her point of view, she was right to be calling all over because he
"couldn't be trusted." From my point of view, I'm surprised he didn't leave
sooner.
He's arranging lots of things himself--has applied to a transitional
residence program, is going to get a GED and apply for emancipation, he
figured out how to finagle his social security number (his mother had
promised for a year to get it out of the shed for him; he wanted to get a
job). She had given his dentist a false number. There's an older brother, a
grandmother, and there has never been a resident father. There are no
outside relatives (those three being in the apartment).
He would be considered a missing child, perhaps, except that friends
persuaded him to call his mom once a week, which he does, and I'm glad. He
doesn't tell her where he is, for which I don't blame him.
It is possible that there are other cases of the official statistics that
involve children escaping a stifling (or worse) homelife.
Sandra
<< I think anually there are maybe 100 cases. So say,
two a state. Most of the abductions are custody cases. >>
Speaking from a state with 1.6 million people or so, we're not due our two
per year from those stats.
We have more missing teens girls, and it's hard to impossible to say which of
those were runaways or date-gone-very-wrong things, as opposed to
drive-by-and-grab.
I try sometimes and fail to imagine how I would cope with the mysterious loss
of a child.
My kids have a friend who ran away (he's here at the moment, having spent the
night along with some others from the anime club which meets almost all night
Fridays at an anime shop nearby). He's also a homeschooler. When I knew he
was not where his mom thought he should be (one busy Saturday six or seven
weeks ago), my first priority was to find out whether he was okay and what
his intentions were. I threatened a kid with police coming to ask her if she
didn't give me a phone number I needed. Within half an hour I knew several
places where he wasn't, I knew he had been delivered to a shelter, and that
he was safe. I told the mom he was safe at a shelter without giving her the
other information.
It was two days before his 17th birthday and she was treating him like he was
ten. I had suggested earlier the same day (the second time she called me,
before he was even due home) that she was keeping him on too short a leash,
that he was a good, thoughtful guy and should be cut some slack.
From her point of view, she was right to be calling all over because he
"couldn't be trusted." From my point of view, I'm surprised he didn't leave
sooner.
He's arranging lots of things himself--has applied to a transitional
residence program, is going to get a GED and apply for emancipation, he
figured out how to finagle his social security number (his mother had
promised for a year to get it out of the shed for him; he wanted to get a
job). She had given his dentist a false number. There's an older brother, a
grandmother, and there has never been a resident father. There are no
outside relatives (those three being in the apartment).
He would be considered a missing child, perhaps, except that friends
persuaded him to call his mom once a week, which he does, and I'm glad. He
doesn't tell her where he is, for which I don't blame him.
It is possible that there are other cases of the official statistics that
involve children escaping a stifling (or worse) homelife.
Sandra
[email protected]
Actually, your timing for this "subject shift" is perfect... my 11-
year-old daughter was in tears the night before last, because she
doesn't think we give her enough independence. We live in Orlando,
Florida, in a nice neighborhood, but rather near the tourist areas,
and there are robberies at the businesses less than a mile from here
too often for my comfort. A couple weeks ago, my friend, who lives
around the corner, had an experience with a "watcher" - her daughter
was sitting on the bench on their front porch, while my friend ran
back inside for a sweater. A man was in a car across the street
watching her daughter, and when my friend came out and saw him, he
yelled something about living in the neighborhood and wanting to make
sure everything was okay, then took off quickly.
There are no other homeschoolers in our immediate neighborhood, and
few kids my daughter's age. The couple that she has found she didn't
even like because of their attitudes and behaviors. She has a couple
of friends that live in a nearby neighborhood, but they aren't
allowed to wander on their own either. Most of her homeschool
friends live in a different part of town, where the kids attend
weekly homeschool classes.
The problem is that my daughter keeps reading all these books about
kids who can wander their little town on their own. Since we don't
live in a little town, and due to financial constraints we cannot
consider that at this time, how do I help her feel more independence
without taking a chance that something will happen? If she
could "travel in a group" it might be less "dangerous," but those
don't exist here... and the only thing (besides houses) that's close
enough for her to go to (local shopping village) has had some crime
as well (mostly at night, but not all of it)...
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Robin
Orlando, FL
:-)
year-old daughter was in tears the night before last, because she
doesn't think we give her enough independence. We live in Orlando,
Florida, in a nice neighborhood, but rather near the tourist areas,
and there are robberies at the businesses less than a mile from here
too often for my comfort. A couple weeks ago, my friend, who lives
around the corner, had an experience with a "watcher" - her daughter
was sitting on the bench on their front porch, while my friend ran
back inside for a sweater. A man was in a car across the street
watching her daughter, and when my friend came out and saw him, he
yelled something about living in the neighborhood and wanting to make
sure everything was okay, then took off quickly.
There are no other homeschoolers in our immediate neighborhood, and
few kids my daughter's age. The couple that she has found she didn't
even like because of their attitudes and behaviors. She has a couple
of friends that live in a nearby neighborhood, but they aren't
allowed to wander on their own either. Most of her homeschool
friends live in a different part of town, where the kids attend
weekly homeschool classes.
The problem is that my daughter keeps reading all these books about
kids who can wander their little town on their own. Since we don't
live in a little town, and due to financial constraints we cannot
consider that at this time, how do I help her feel more independence
without taking a chance that something will happen? If she
could "travel in a group" it might be less "dangerous," but those
don't exist here... and the only thing (besides houses) that's close
enough for her to go to (local shopping village) has had some crime
as well (mostly at night, but not all of it)...
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Robin
Orlando, FL
:-)
Tracy Oldfield
The problem is that my daughter keeps reading all these
books about
kids who can wander their little town on their own.
Since we don't
live in a little town, and due to financial constraints
we cannot
consider that at this time, how do I help her feel more
independence
without taking a chance that something will happen? If
she
could "travel in a group" it might be less "dangerous,"
but those
don't exist here... and the only thing (besides houses)
that's close
enough for her to go to (local shopping village) has
had some crime
as well (mostly at night, but not all of it)...
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Robin
Orlando, FL
:-)
I know it's one of those endemic things that some folk
detest, but what about her having a mobile phone, with
the understanding that unless it's an emergency call
she pays for the calls out of her allowance?
Tracy
books about
kids who can wander their little town on their own.
Since we don't
live in a little town, and due to financial constraints
we cannot
consider that at this time, how do I help her feel more
independence
without taking a chance that something will happen? If
she
could "travel in a group" it might be less "dangerous,"
but those
don't exist here... and the only thing (besides houses)
that's close
enough for her to go to (local shopping village) has
had some crime
as well (mostly at night, but not all of it)...
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Robin
Orlando, FL
:-)
I know it's one of those endemic things that some folk
detest, but what about her having a mobile phone, with
the understanding that unless it's an emergency call
she pays for the calls out of her allowance?
Tracy
[email protected]
Tracy wrote:
RV instead of making her come in the store, etc.), I give her the
walkie-talkie, which has a range of 2 miles... but I'm afraid if
someone were to grab her, the walkie-talkie would either hit the
ground or be of little use.... I think...
Robin
:-)
> What about her having a mobile phoneTracy - actually, whenever I do give her freedoms (leave her in the
RV instead of making her come in the store, etc.), I give her the
walkie-talkie, which has a range of 2 miles... but I'm afraid if
someone were to grab her, the walkie-talkie would either hit the
ground or be of little use.... I think...
Robin
:-)
Vaughnde Edwards
Naomi is only 10. I dont give her that much independence
either. She goes with me where I go...I won't even consider leaving her home
alone. But down the street, she found a friend and does and can go to their
house after her friend Tasha comes home from school or on the weekends. We
currently (moving may first) live near a park so she can play there, but she
will only play at the park if some other kids are there....she refuses to play
by herself. She is allowed freedoms in her choice of clothing to wear, how she
styles her hair, etc. Little things...but I still consider her a child and wont
leave her home when I go on the bus somewhere. She is not responsible enough to
be left alone even for 30 minutes!
So I guess I can't help you much there.
-----Original Message-----Actually, your timing for this "subject shift" is perfect... my 11-
From: RNorell@... <RNorell@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:29 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
year-old daughter was in tears the night before last, because she
doesn't think we give her enough independence. We live in Orlando,
Florida, in a nice neighborhood, but rather near the tourist areas,
and there are robberies at the businesses less than a mile from here
too often for my comfort. A couple weeks ago, my friend, who lives
around the corner, had an experience with a "watcher" - her daughter
was sitting on the bench on their front porch, while my friend ran
back inside for a sweater. A man was in a car across the street
watching her daughter, and when my friend came out and saw him, he
yelled something about living in the neighborhood and wanting to make
sure everything was okay, then took off quickly.
There are no other homeschoolers in our immediate neighborhood, and
few kids my daughter's age. The couple that she has found she didn't
even like because of their attitudes and behaviors. She has a couple
of friends that live in a nearby neighborhood, but they aren't
allowed to wander on their own either. Most of her homeschool
friends live in a different part of town, where the kids attend
weekly homeschool classes.
The problem is that my daughter keeps reading all these books about
kids who can wander their little town on their own. Since we don't
live in a little town, and due to financial constraints we cannot
consider that at this time, how do I help her feel more independence
without taking a chance that something will happen? If she
could "travel in a group" it might be less "dangerous," but those
don't exist here... and the only thing (besides houses) that's close
enough for her to go to (local shopping village) has had some crime
as well (mostly at night, but not all of it)...
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Robin
Orlando, FL
:-)
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<<Naomi is only 10. I dont give her that much independence either. She
goes with me where I go...I won't even consider leaving her home alone.
But down the street, she found a friend and does and can go to their
house after her friend Tasha comes home from school or on the weekends.
We currently (moving may first) live near a park so she can play there,
but she will only play at the park if some other kids are there....she
refuses to play by herself. She is allowed freedoms in her choice of
clothing to wear, how she styles her hair, etc. Little things...but I
still consider her a child and wont leave her home when I go on the bus
somewhere. She is not responsible enough to be left alone even for 30
minutes!>>
Yeah, it depends on the kid. My dd is 10 and very responsible, she was
born like this. I have JUST begun to let her stay home alone for brief
periods. My neighbor works at home and my best friend works around the
corner, less than 2 minutes drive from here. I always make sure one or
both of there and aware she is home and I keep my cell phone on.
What is so odd to me is that they offer classes called "When I'm In
Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues when they are home
alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not positive about the
max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch.
Kris
Kris
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goes with me where I go...I won't even consider leaving her home alone.
But down the street, she found a friend and does and can go to their
house after her friend Tasha comes home from school or on the weekends.
We currently (moving may first) live near a park so she can play there,
but she will only play at the park if some other kids are there....she
refuses to play by herself. She is allowed freedoms in her choice of
clothing to wear, how she styles her hair, etc. Little things...but I
still consider her a child and wont leave her home when I go on the bus
somewhere. She is not responsible enough to be left alone even for 30
minutes!>>
Yeah, it depends on the kid. My dd is 10 and very responsible, she was
born like this. I have JUST begun to let her stay home alone for brief
periods. My neighbor works at home and my best friend works around the
corner, less than 2 minutes drive from here. I always make sure one or
both of there and aware she is home and I keep my cell phone on.
What is so odd to me is that they offer classes called "When I'm In
Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues when they are home
alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not positive about the
max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch.
Kris
Kris
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., RNorell@m... wrote:
June. Last week we let them go to the mall on their own for an hour.
My dh dropped them of at 11am and told them he would pick them up at
12. This is the first time we have allowed them to do this.
Both girls are very sensible. When I go to the mall and they come
with me, I do let them do their own thing - giving them a time and
place to meet me, It isnt that I dont trust the girls - I dont
trust other people!
The girls are allowed to go to the movies together, or the swimming
pools. A parent takes them and brings them back. I do want to know
where dd is at all times. she also goes for a walk around the block
with friend. We live in a safe area where most people know each
other.
I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone.
I am rather protective compared to a lot of Mums with this age child -
and I am only just starting to losen the apron strings.
Marianne
> Actually, your timing for this "subject shift" is perfect... my 11-My dd will be 13yrs old in August. her friend will be 13yrs old in
> year-old daughter was in tears the night before last, because she
> doesn't think we give her enough independence.
June. Last week we let them go to the mall on their own for an hour.
My dh dropped them of at 11am and told them he would pick them up at
12. This is the first time we have allowed them to do this.
Both girls are very sensible. When I go to the mall and they come
with me, I do let them do their own thing - giving them a time and
place to meet me, It isnt that I dont trust the girls - I dont
trust other people!
The girls are allowed to go to the movies together, or the swimming
pools. A parent takes them and brings them back. I do want to know
where dd is at all times. she also goes for a walk around the block
with friend. We live in a safe area where most people know each
other.
I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone.
I am rather protective compared to a lot of Mums with this age child -
and I am only just starting to losen the apron strings.
Marianne
Tracy Oldfield
What is so odd to me is that they offer classes called
"When I'm In
Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues
when they are home
alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not
positive about the
max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home
alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch.
Kris
Kris
I was left 'HA' from quite a young age, not only during
the day but at night too, basically I was more reliable
by myself than the sitters Mum found... I always knew
where she was going and had the phone number... I used
to phone once or twice while she was out :-) I think I
would be about 8 or 9... I'm looking forward to my
eldest being able to cross roads by herself then she
can take herself to Granny's, maybe next year I think.
I used to go to the shops by myself too. But then I
used to play out down the street (a fairly fast main
road) when I was 3yo, so maybe it's that my mum was
clueless!!
Dunno, but I do like to be by myself...
Tracy
"When I'm In
Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues
when they are home
alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not
positive about the
max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home
alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch.
Kris
Kris
I was left 'HA' from quite a young age, not only during
the day but at night too, basically I was more reliable
by myself than the sitters Mum found... I always knew
where she was going and had the phone number... I used
to phone once or twice while she was out :-) I think I
would be about 8 or 9... I'm looking forward to my
eldest being able to cross roads by herself then she
can take herself to Granny's, maybe next year I think.
I used to go to the shops by myself too. But then I
used to play out down the street (a fairly fast main
road) when I was 3yo, so maybe it's that my mum was
clueless!!
Dunno, but I do like to be by myself...
Tracy
[email protected]
I don't have any solutions or suggestions about how to encourage our
children's growing desire for independence, while keeping them safe.
I think, like a lot of people, I've thought that something like an abduction
couldn't happen to us because ...
...we arm our children with knowledge.
...we live in a "safe" area.
...our children aren't afraid to speak their minds or to tell us things.
When an 11yo girl from near here was abducted and murdered, I thought, well I
wouldn't have let an 11yo go to a late night skate alone. And I would have
been there to pick her up right on time, if I HAD let her go. Now that my
daughter is older, I can see how that struggle for independence might have
led me to let her do something like this, and trusting someone else, who then
showed up late, to give her a ride home could have happened. We want to think
our kids are absolutely safe. That we or they are in control. It's
frightening that we can't always be safe, no matter how much control we think
we have or what tools we have given them.
This is a link to a site with information on the abduction of three girls
near us who seemed safe. One was taken from her front porch where she was
doing her homework. The other two sisters, 11 and 15, had just gotten home
from school.
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/kkscases/
It's hard to know what to do as a parent. We live near a small college town
where my daughter, 14, is comfortable walking around with her friends. Being
dropped off at the town library. Spending hours in the little used book
store. She is confident, and I don't want her to be "jumpy" and wary and
frightened. But sometimes I am. I think I always will be. What was that
quote? (Yes, it's Laura, lover of other people's words.)
"Making the decision to have a child -- it's momentous. It is to decide
forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." Elizabeth
Stone
Laura
children's growing desire for independence, while keeping them safe.
I think, like a lot of people, I've thought that something like an abduction
couldn't happen to us because ...
...we arm our children with knowledge.
...we live in a "safe" area.
...our children aren't afraid to speak their minds or to tell us things.
When an 11yo girl from near here was abducted and murdered, I thought, well I
wouldn't have let an 11yo go to a late night skate alone. And I would have
been there to pick her up right on time, if I HAD let her go. Now that my
daughter is older, I can see how that struggle for independence might have
led me to let her do something like this, and trusting someone else, who then
showed up late, to give her a ride home could have happened. We want to think
our kids are absolutely safe. That we or they are in control. It's
frightening that we can't always be safe, no matter how much control we think
we have or what tools we have given them.
This is a link to a site with information on the abduction of three girls
near us who seemed safe. One was taken from her front porch where she was
doing her homework. The other two sisters, 11 and 15, had just gotten home
from school.
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/kkscases/
It's hard to know what to do as a parent. We live near a small college town
where my daughter, 14, is comfortable walking around with her friends. Being
dropped off at the town library. Spending hours in the little used book
store. She is confident, and I don't want her to be "jumpy" and wary and
frightened. But sometimes I am. I think I always will be. What was that
quote? (Yes, it's Laura, lover of other people's words.)
"Making the decision to have a child -- it's momentous. It is to decide
forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body." Elizabeth
Stone
Laura
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/01 9:18:42 PM, louisam1@... writes:
<< Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch. >>
I've left kids that young and younger, for long enough to go to the grocery
store (two blocks) or post office or to rent a video but only if and when
they wanted to stay instead of go. Usually they were engrossed in something
(video game or Barbie-dolls or something) and I would put a phone number
right by the phone, and come right home and ask questions--were you scared?
Anything weird happen? And gradually, the time got longer and slight
incidents came up and were discussed, and now that Holly's nine she often
prefers to stay than go.
We're in a safe neighborhood, though, the neighbors know her, we have a smart
dog, several phones around the house, and Holly's decisive and assertive. I
wouldn't pressure her to stay. Sometimes I leave her with a brother somewhat
against her will if I'm in a hurry to leave or it's not a kid-friendly
destination.
Sandra
<< Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch. >>
I've left kids that young and younger, for long enough to go to the grocery
store (two blocks) or post office or to rent a video but only if and when
they wanted to stay instead of go. Usually they were engrossed in something
(video game or Barbie-dolls or something) and I would put a phone number
right by the phone, and come right home and ask questions--were you scared?
Anything weird happen? And gradually, the time got longer and slight
incidents came up and were discussed, and now that Holly's nine she often
prefers to stay than go.
We're in a safe neighborhood, though, the neighbors know her, we have a smart
dog, several phones around the house, and Holly's decisive and assertive. I
wouldn't pressure her to stay. Sometimes I leave her with a brother somewhat
against her will if I'm in a hurry to leave or it's not a kid-friendly
destination.
Sandra
Nancy from MI
Laura: That's it. My daughter's are NEVER going to go anywhere alone.
Can I keep them in the house until they are 40? No? Darn. I agree
with
the quote at the end of your post :
almost 12-year-old daughter was riding her bike at dusk and I went
outside to call her in and couldn't find her. She was down the block
(about three houses) riding around in a parking lot that is on a main
road (where the local undersirables frequently walk). She's been told
not to go there, especially at night. When I asked her why she was
down there, she looked at me like I was crazy. Kids think they are
invincible. I did, didn't everyone?
~Nancy
Can I keep them in the house until they are 40? No? Darn. I agree
with
the quote at the end of your post :
> "Making the decision to have a child -- it's momentous. It is toWith stories like this, it is hard to let them go. Last night, my
>decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your
>body." Elizabeth Stone
almost 12-year-old daughter was riding her bike at dusk and I went
outside to call her in and couldn't find her. She was down the block
(about three houses) riding around in a parking lot that is on a main
road (where the local undersirables frequently walk). She's been told
not to go there, especially at night. When I asked her why she was
down there, she looked at me like I was crazy. Kids think they are
invincible. I did, didn't everyone?
~Nancy
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., parrishml@a... wrote:
> I don't have any solutions or suggestions about how to encourage
our
> children's growing desire for independence, while keeping them safe.
>
> I think, like a lot of people, I've thought that something like an
abduction
> couldn't happen to us because ...
>
> ...we arm our children with knowledge.
>
> ...we live in a "safe" area.
>
> ...our children aren't afraid to speak their minds or to tell us
things.
>
> When an 11yo girl from near here was abducted and murdered, I
thought, well I
> wouldn't have let an 11yo go to a late night skate alone. And I
would have
> been there to pick her up right on time, if I HAD let her go. Now
that my
> daughter is older, I can see how that struggle for independence
might have
> led me to let her do something like this, and trusting someone
else,
who then
> showed up late, to give her a ride home could have happened. We
want
to think
> our kids are absolutely safe. That we or they are in control. It's
> frightening that we can't always be safe, no matter how much
control
we think
> we have or what tools we have given them.
>
> This is a link to a site with information on the abduction of three
girls
> near us who seemed safe. One was taken from her front porch where
she was
> doing her homework. The other two sisters, 11 and 15, had just
gotten home
> from school.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/va2/kkscases/
>
> It's hard to know what to do as a parent. We live near a small
college town
> where my daughter, 14, is comfortable walking around with her
friends. Being
> dropped off at the town library. Spending hours in the little used
book
> store. She is confident, and I don't want her to be "jumpy" and
wary
and
> frightened. But sometimes I am. I think I always will be. What was
that
> quote? (Yes, it's Laura, lover of other people's words.)
>
> "Making the decision to have a child -- it's momentous. It is to
decide
> forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body."
Elizabeth
> Stone
>
> Laura
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/01 8:36:47 AM, tonitoni@... writes:
<< I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone. >>
I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late?
I worry about phones. I don't let our phone line be tied up if any kids are
not home. So on a night when all are in and accounted for, after 10:00 I'll
let the kids use both phone lines (so two can be online at the same time) but
if anyone's spending the night away or still out, I make sure the phone line
is available.
My husband sometimes just lets the phone ring and it really bothers me. I
tell him it could be me, or one of the kids, needing a rescue.
Sandra
<< I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone. >>
I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late?
I worry about phones. I don't let our phone line be tied up if any kids are
not home. So on a night when all are in and accounted for, after 10:00 I'll
let the kids use both phone lines (so two can be online at the same time) but
if anyone's spending the night away or still out, I make sure the phone line
is available.
My husband sometimes just lets the phone ring and it really bothers me. I
tell him it could be me, or one of the kids, needing a rescue.
Sandra
[email protected]
<<I've left kids that young and younger, for long enough to go to the
grocery
store (two blocks) or post office or to rent a video but only if and when
they wanted to stay instead of go.>>
That's a point, she was afraid of being alone until recently so that may
be why it seemed so young.
Staying home wasn't MY idea, LOL, I love her company. It still makes me
nervous but she really wanted to have this freedom and she's so
responsible I felt that saying no would be insulting. She usually wants
to go but needs a break from her little brother once in a while.
The problem is, now she's asking when she can start baby sitting. Argh!
Thankfully she's good about giving ME time to get comfortable with new
ideas. I've told her that she is welcome to baby sit here in our house
when I'm home.
Kris
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grocery
store (two blocks) or post office or to rent a video but only if and when
they wanted to stay instead of go.>>
That's a point, she was afraid of being alone until recently so that may
be why it seemed so young.
Staying home wasn't MY idea, LOL, I love her company. It still makes me
nervous but she really wanted to have this freedom and she's so
responsible I felt that saying no would be insulting. She usually wants
to go but needs a break from her little brother once in a while.
The problem is, now she's asking when she can start baby sitting. Argh!
Thankfully she's good about giving ME time to get comfortable with new
ideas. I've told her that she is welcome to baby sit here in our house
when I'm home.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 04/09/2001 7:44:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late? >>
Hi Sandra and everyone;
My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
they know it is me.
Sheree
Sheree -:¦:-´¨¨)) -:¦:- AIM:ShereeS411
¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ICQ: 78470094 NorthStar -:¦:-
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ "Great spirits have always encountered
opposition from mediocre minds." ..Albert Einstein
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late? >>
Hi Sandra and everyone;
My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
they know it is me.
Sheree
Sheree -:¦:-´¨¨)) -:¦:- AIM:ShereeS411
¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ICQ: 78470094 NorthStar -:¦:-
((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ "Great spirits have always encountered
opposition from mediocre minds." ..Albert Einstein
Lynda
Unfortunately, we have a major freeway that turns into a regular 4 lane city
street running right in front of our only "real" mall. This is the first
town with anything larger than a wide space in the road on the trip from
Pelican Bay (super max last stop prison) to points south when they cut folks
loose. We've had several murders by these supposed "ex" offenders and a
couple of years ago a 17 year old was snatched right in front of the mall
when she was crossing the street. She has never been found.
End result, I am working real hard at keeping my now out of control "mommy
paranoia" under some sort of control! The 17 yo is lucky I let him go to
the mall <g>
Lynda
street running right in front of our only "real" mall. This is the first
town with anything larger than a wide space in the road on the trip from
Pelican Bay (super max last stop prison) to points south when they cut folks
loose. We've had several murders by these supposed "ex" offenders and a
couple of years ago a 17 year old was snatched right in front of the mall
when she was crossing the street. She has never been found.
End result, I am working real hard at keeping my now out of control "mommy
paranoia" under some sort of control! The 17 yo is lucky I let him go to
the mall <g>
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <tonitoni@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:35 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., RNorell@m... wrote:
> > Actually, your timing for this "subject shift" is perfect... my 11-
> > year-old daughter was in tears the night before last, because she
> > doesn't think we give her enough independence.
>
> My dd will be 13yrs old in August. her friend will be 13yrs old in
> June. Last week we let them go to the mall on their own for an hour.
> My dh dropped them of at 11am and told them he would pick them up at
> 12. This is the first time we have allowed them to do this.
> Both girls are very sensible. When I go to the mall and they come
> with me, I do let them do their own thing - giving them a time and
> place to meet me, It isnt that I dont trust the girls - I dont
> trust other people!
>
> The girls are allowed to go to the movies together, or the swimming
> pools. A parent takes them and brings them back. I do want to know
> where dd is at all times. she also goes for a walk around the block
> with friend. We live in a safe area where most people know each
> other.
>
> I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
> but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone.
>
> I am rather protective compared to a lot of Mums with this age child -
> and I am only just starting to losen the apron strings.
> Marianne
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/01 7:45:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< << I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone. >>
I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late?
calling to see if the house is empty so I tell my son to say that I can't
come to the phone right now. I also want him to pick up because I often need
to talk to him while I'm out.
Cheryl
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< << I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone. >>
I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late?
>>I've also read that children should answer the phone in case anyone is
calling to see if the house is empty so I tell my son to say that I can't
come to the phone right now. I also want him to pick up because I often need
to talk to him while I'm out.
Cheryl
Vicki A. Dennis
> What is so odd to me is that they offer classes called "When I'm InOver the years one of the ways I have stayed in touch is coaching soccer!!!
> Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues when they are home
> alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not positive about the
> max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
> just out of touch.
Various locations (small town, city, suburbs) and various years.
I remember my shock in 1988 to learn that a 9 year old team member not only was
home alone for 3 hours each schoolday but he was also responsible for his 5 yo
brother. Just last year (I am commissioner now, not coach) I listened as a
mother explained why her child needed to be on team with a particular child so
that he could get a ride to practices since mom did not get home from big city
job until 6:30 daily. Furthermore, practices needed to be on certain days when
younger son had activities since she depended on the 11 yo to supervise the 8
yo.
These examples were for "after school" hours.
For summertime, lots of kids are in "day camps" which are often special
programs run by daycare establishments to provide supervision and activities up
to about age 12. My experience is that after about age 10 families make
decisions based on the individual child (able to control impulses, willing to
be home alone) and their own situation (older siblings at home, neighbor
willing to be a contact if trouble arises, parents or adults able to maintain
telephone contact, relative safety of home location)
I can also remember when my now 21 yo was about 9-12 and our neighborhood teemed
with that age group. I always tried to keep our property "kid-friendly" as a
way to keep my son home. The majority of the kids did not have an adult at
home many days. Watching their life skills as they participated in our
household I thought that classes covering certain basics might be very useful
since it was apparent many had not given thought to what to do in potentially
threatening situations.
Yes, many kids are home alone from very young ages. Or they are in the care
of others that are not quite adults yet.
Vicki
Lynda
Answering machine and screen the calls????
Lynda
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ShereeS411@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
> In a message dated 04/09/2001 7:44:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> << I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire
and
> want to call and say you'll be late? >>
> Hi Sandra and everyone;
> My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
> twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
> they know it is me.
> Sheree
>
> Sheree -:¦:-´¨¨)) -:¦:- AIM:ShereeS411
> ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ICQ: 78470094 NorthStar -:¦:-
> ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-
> -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ "Great spirits have always encountered
> opposition from mediocre minds." ..Albert Einstein
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Vicki A. Dennis
The answering machines you hook to the phone to let you "screen" calls can be
very useful. "Callnotes" has its advantages...........one being that it will
take a message even if you have call waiting and decide not to answer the other
line. But there is a distinct disadvantage in that one cannot hover over the
phone and listen to the voice of the caller before deciding to answer. I
think we were the "last on the block" to get call waiting but it certainly
helped my mommy worries---------I could feel comfortable using the phone even
when my babies were out and about. Miss Manners might say that it is rude to
put someone on hold to take another call but I have yet to find a parent who is
upset when I say "let me take this call, my teenagers are still out". Usually
they are quick to say "I do the same thing".
Vicki
P.S.: So glad that cellphone costs have decreased. Pagers for a teenager
were very helpful (even police advised that pagers were nowadays less likely to
be for drug deals than to be from parents anxious to be able to contact mobile
children) but cellphone is even better.
very useful. "Callnotes" has its advantages...........one being that it will
take a message even if you have call waiting and decide not to answer the other
line. But there is a distinct disadvantage in that one cannot hover over the
phone and listen to the voice of the caller before deciding to answer. I
think we were the "last on the block" to get call waiting but it certainly
helped my mommy worries---------I could feel comfortable using the phone even
when my babies were out and about. Miss Manners might say that it is rude to
put someone on hold to take another call but I have yet to find a parent who is
upset when I say "let me take this call, my teenagers are still out". Usually
they are quick to say "I do the same thing".
Vicki
P.S.: So glad that cellphone costs have decreased. Pagers for a teenager
were very helpful (even police advised that pagers were nowadays less likely to
be for drug deals than to be from parents anxious to be able to contact mobile
children) but cellphone is even better.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ShereeS411@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
In a message dated 04/09/2001 7:44:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late? >>
Hi Sandra and everyone;
My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
they know it is me.
Sheree
Vaughnde Edwards
-----Original Message-----
From: louisam1@... <louisam1@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shiftYeah, it depends on the kid. My dd is 10 and very responsible, she was
born like this. I have JUST begun to let her stay home alone for brief
periods. My neighbor works at home and my best friend works around the
corner, less than 2 minutes drive from here. I always make sure one or
both of there and aware she is home and I keep my cell phone on.
What is so odd to me is that they offer classes called "When I'm In
Charge" which teach kids how to handle safety issues when they are home
alone. The ages they offer this to are 8 to 13? (not positive about the
max age). Eight seems incredibly young to be home alone but maybe I'm
just out of touch.
Kris
8 is incredibly young to be left alone...unfortunatly alot of latch key kids are left alone at that age..usually for half an hour to an hour and usually they have rules like call mom at work the minute they get in the door, etc. I never considered it even when I was working part time at Pizza Hut in Spanaway, Wa. and if I couldn't get home on time, I let my best friend know so she could have Naomi come over after school to stay with her until I got home.Vaughnde
[email protected]
>.> Tracy
> I was left 'HA' from quite a young age, not only during
> the day but at night too, basically I was more reliable
> by myself than the sitters Mum found...
Me and my 2 sisters where left with dad when I was 9yrs old. We
lived on a Market Garden in UK, Dad worked on the garden. So we
could always get to him if we needed him- we also had a secret signal
if there was an emegancy.
From 9yrs old I had a lot of freedom. Not only looked after myself
but my sisters too.
Dad was the best father he could be - never left us on a night by
ourselves. But during the day he had to work.
Marianne
[email protected]
>tire and
> I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat
> want to call and say you'll be late?Sandra
Sorry - forgot to mention we have a *secret* ring. If either me or
dad ring - she knows its us!!!
Marianne
Johanna
That is why we have an answering machine you can
monitor. If we call when the kids are home alone, they wait until the machine
turns on . If they hear my husband or me, they then pick up the phone, but not
before. Some internet services have an option where you get disconnected if an
incoming call comes in on the other line, but I guess you need call waiting for
this to work.
"Education is not the filling of a bucket but the lighting of a fire"
William Butler Yeats
----- Original Message -----From: SandraDodd@...Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:42 AMSubject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
In a message dated 4/9/01 8:36:47 AM, tonitoni@... writes:
<< I will leave dd alone during the day occasionally for a little while -
but she has to stay inside and not answere the door or phone. >>
I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire and
want to call and say you'll be late?
I worry about phones. I don't let our phone line be tied up if any kids are
not home. So on a night when all are in and accounted for, after 10:00 I'll
let the kids use both phone lines (so two can be online at the same time) but
if anyone's spending the night away or still out, I make sure the phone line
is available.
My husband sometimes just lets the phone ring and it really bothers me. I
tell him it could be me, or one of the kids, needing a rescue.
Sandra
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[email protected]
Just as a matter of interest. Is there a law in America RE. what age
a child can be legal left alone?
In New Zealand the law states that a child cannot Babysit until they
reach 14yrs old.
Many people interpret this to mean that a child cannot be left alone
until that age. I think it would depend on the age/maturity of the
child, to if the parents would face prosicution or not, if the family
were reported for leaving a child at home alone.
Mariane
a child can be legal left alone?
In New Zealand the law states that a child cannot Babysit until they
reach 14yrs old.
Many people interpret this to mean that a child cannot be left alone
until that age. I think it would depend on the age/maturity of the
child, to if the parents would face prosicution or not, if the family
were reported for leaving a child at home alone.
Mariane
Lynda
Every state is different and every CPS/CWS can and frequently does decide
that they are the only authority capable of reading and understanding any
given states laws in this area.
Lynda
that they are the only authority capable of reading and understanding any
given states laws in this area.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <tonitoni@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:24 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift
> Just as a matter of interest. Is there a law in America RE. what age
> a child can be legal left alone?
>
> In New Zealand the law states that a child cannot Babysit until they
> reach 14yrs old.
> Many people interpret this to mean that a child cannot be left alone
> until that age. I think it would depend on the age/maturity of the
> child, to if the parents would face prosicution or not, if the family
> were reported for leaving a child at home alone.
>
> Mariane
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/01 9:29:03 AM, ShereeS411@... writes:
<< My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
they know it is me. >>
Because I can't help being nitpicky...
The ringer on the phone doesn't match the tone you hear. It can seem the
phone didn't ring at all but it did. Or the caller can hear a ring (which is
a tone showing a connection, not the actual sound or time of that ring on the
other end) and hang up, and the phone didn't ring on the other end.
So it's imperfect, a count of two. It's possible to do, but not
guaranteeable. You can't go absolutely by what you hear.
Sandra
<< My children and I have used a code, in the past. I let the phone ring
twice.. hang up and then return the call a couple minutes later...that way
they know it is me. >>
Because I can't help being nitpicky...
The ringer on the phone doesn't match the tone you hear. It can seem the
phone didn't ring at all but it did. Or the caller can hear a ring (which is
a tone showing a connection, not the actual sound or time of that ring on the
other end) and hang up, and the phone didn't ring on the other end.
So it's imperfect, a count of two. It's possible to do, but not
guaranteeable. You can't go absolutely by what you hear.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/01 1:28:54 PM, tonitoni@... writes:
<< Just as a matter of interest. Is there a law in America RE. what age
a child can be legal left alone? >>
Different state to state (and maybe cities??).
I'm not sure all states have the laws. Someone here has probably already put
up a website, but I'm answering as I go. <g>
Sandra
<< Just as a matter of interest. Is there a law in America RE. what age
a child can be legal left alone? >>
Different state to state (and maybe cities??).
I'm not sure all states have the laws. Someone here has probably already put
up a website, but I'm answering as I go. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/01 1:51:07 PM, lurine@... writes:
<< Every state is different and every CPS/CWS >>
I'm thinking those mean Child Protective Service and Child Welfare Service.
Also local terms. <g>
<< Every state is different and every CPS/CWS >>
I'm thinking those mean Child Protective Service and Child Welfare Service.
Also local terms. <g>
[email protected]
<<I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire
and
want to call and say you'll be late?>>
I do the same thing with the door and phone, she doesn't answer either.
We have an answering machine so I just call and tell her to call me back
on the cell phone.
I use Call Wave which answers the phone when I'm online and plays the
message for me on the computer. That way I can go online even when the
kids aren't home.
Kris
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and
want to call and say you'll be late?>>
I do the same thing with the door and phone, she doesn't answer either.
We have an answering machine so I just call and tell her to call me back
on the cell phone.
I use Call Wave which answers the phone when I'm online and plays the
message for me on the computer. That way I can go online even when the
kids aren't home.
Kris
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Johanna
How about a little more info on "call wave"? I
struggle with being online because my husband works on the road and I never know
when he is going to call.
Johanna
"Education is not the filling of a bucket but the lighting of a fire"
William Butler Yeats
"Education is not the filling of a bucket but the lighting of a fire"
William Butler Yeats
----- Original Message -----From: louisam1@...Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:03 PMSubject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: missing kids, and subject shift<<I'm just curious about the phone thing: What if you have a flat tire
and
want to call and say you'll be late?>>
I do the same thing with the door and phone, she doesn't answer either.
We have an answering machine so I just call and tell her to call me back
on the cell phone.
I use Call Wave which answers the phone when I'm online and plays the
message for me on the computer. That way I can go online even when the
kids aren't home.
Kris
________________________________________________________________
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