Re: Sociatal standards
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 07:09 AM 8/9/99 -0700, you wrote:
to take a positive slant on that information.
Unfortunately, I have also heard (from someone who used to work in the
Social Services here in Eastern Idaho) that child abuse is rampant in this
part of the state. I have also seen plenty (ok LOTS) of folks smoking with
their kids in the car, not using sunblock, shouting at or striking their
children, not using carseats, not that I think those are problems that are
unique to this area, but I have noticed more of it here. Apparently there
is a big problem with people not using Carseats here. They have radio
campaigns and seat givaways from the hospital and the fire department. We
noticed it when we moved here. We also noticed that they have a problem
with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!!
I was also surprised to find (after growing up in Northern California) that
there are ALL smoking resturaunts here. I have yet to find one that is
Smoke Free. For us that is a big deal as both my older son and I have
Asthma. We sometimes have to get up and leave after being seated in a new
restaurant (one we have not been in before) if we discover that it is just
too smokey. I always ask to be seated as far away from their smoking
section as possible.
There are lots of wonderful things about this area. Small town atmosphere
with still a decent sized population. A very nice zoo and library, lots of
parks, playgrounds and city flower beds, a good semi-pro baseball team,
Yellowstone, Glacier National Park, and other areas nearby. But I have to
adjust to a mentality that is about 15 years (in the general populace)
behind the coastal areas and the big cities. If I was outside the box
anywhwhere else, here I am a Radical!!
"What?! You don't attend church? You don't send your kids to school? You
don't drink or smoke?" etc etc.....Freakish!
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: "mrstar" <mrstar@...>HE HE...well, I guess we're just the pioneering type. That is, if you want
>
>>Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscription
>rates
>>percapita)
>
><<<Really?!?!? How horrifying. Does that mean that we are breeding a
>generation of Human Pototoes here in Spud country?
>
>Nanci K. in Idaho>>>
>
>
>They have to do something I guess (from their perspective anyway) as we also
>have like the second lowest education budget in the country. Of course, home
>education is running rampant here!!!
>
>Mary in Idaho
to take a positive slant on that information.
Unfortunately, I have also heard (from someone who used to work in the
Social Services here in Eastern Idaho) that child abuse is rampant in this
part of the state. I have also seen plenty (ok LOTS) of folks smoking with
their kids in the car, not using sunblock, shouting at or striking their
children, not using carseats, not that I think those are problems that are
unique to this area, but I have noticed more of it here. Apparently there
is a big problem with people not using Carseats here. They have radio
campaigns and seat givaways from the hospital and the fire department. We
noticed it when we moved here. We also noticed that they have a problem
with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!!
I was also surprised to find (after growing up in Northern California) that
there are ALL smoking resturaunts here. I have yet to find one that is
Smoke Free. For us that is a big deal as both my older son and I have
Asthma. We sometimes have to get up and leave after being seated in a new
restaurant (one we have not been in before) if we discover that it is just
too smokey. I always ask to be seated as far away from their smoking
section as possible.
There are lots of wonderful things about this area. Small town atmosphere
with still a decent sized population. A very nice zoo and library, lots of
parks, playgrounds and city flower beds, a good semi-pro baseball team,
Yellowstone, Glacier National Park, and other areas nearby. But I have to
adjust to a mentality that is about 15 years (in the general populace)
behind the coastal areas and the big cities. If I was outside the box
anywhwhere else, here I am a Radical!!
"What?! You don't attend church? You don't send your kids to school? You
don't drink or smoke?" etc etc.....Freakish!
Nanci K. in Idaho
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/99 8:02:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< We also noticed that they have a problem with getting people to get
their kids vaccinated!! >>
Well good for them.... I wonder if it's a real objection to vaccinations or
they just don't take them in. I would hope for the former.
Charlotte
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< We also noticed that they have a problem with getting people to get
their kids vaccinated!! >>
Well good for them.... I wonder if it's a real objection to vaccinations or
they just don't take them in. I would hope for the former.
Charlotte
Lisa Bugg
> . <<< We also noticed that they have a problemhere
> with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!! >>>
>
> Now, that is a whole other subject. I am sure there are allot of people
> and there and everywhere who don't vaccinate for the same reason theydon't
> use a car seat or read the labels on the food they feed their children,I'll jump in..... we also choose not to vaccinate, and it's surely not
> ignorance and careless disregard. >
because of ignorance. :) I really liked the issue of Mothering that covered
this topic last year. It might help some understand why others actively
choose not to vaccinate.
LisaKK
mrstar
Wow!! I guess it is different over there in the east of here. I still see
allot of ignorance but not any more than I saw in Portland for sure.
<<<I was also surprised to find (after growing up in Northern California)
that
there are ALL smoking restaurants here. I have yet to find one that is
Smoke Free. >>>
In the Boise area there are quite a few smoke free restaurants (although the
best food so far has been in a couple of ones that had smoking areas :( I
used to smoke but never in a restaurant)
. <<< We also noticed that they have a problem
with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!! >>>
Now, that is a whole other subject. I am sure there are allot of people here
and there and everywhere who don't vaccinate for the same reason they don't
use a car seat or read the labels on the food they feed their children,
ignorance and careless disregard. I know quite a few folks, myself
included, who have done a bit of research on the subject and have chosen not
to vaccinate because it is more dangerous than the illnesses they are trying
to prevent. I am sure this is a touchy subject for many people and I don't
want to start a flame war or anything.lol. If there is interest I have a few
articles saved that I could post, but I won't until I see interest. I just
wanted to be clear, despite Idaho's reputation for not vaccinating (looking
backwoods) there are many legitimate reasons for choosing this path and I
would personally like to remove it from the "things ignorant folk don't
think about" list even if many ignorant folk don't do it for just that
reason!!
Mary in Idaho (no where near the box anymore)
allot of ignorance but not any more than I saw in Portland for sure.
<<<I was also surprised to find (after growing up in Northern California)
that
there are ALL smoking restaurants here. I have yet to find one that is
Smoke Free. >>>
In the Boise area there are quite a few smoke free restaurants (although the
best food so far has been in a couple of ones that had smoking areas :( I
used to smoke but never in a restaurant)
. <<< We also noticed that they have a problem
with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!! >>>
Now, that is a whole other subject. I am sure there are allot of people here
and there and everywhere who don't vaccinate for the same reason they don't
use a car seat or read the labels on the food they feed their children,
ignorance and careless disregard. I know quite a few folks, myself
included, who have done a bit of research on the subject and have chosen not
to vaccinate because it is more dangerous than the illnesses they are trying
to prevent. I am sure this is a touchy subject for many people and I don't
want to start a flame war or anything.lol. If there is interest I have a few
articles saved that I could post, but I won't until I see interest. I just
wanted to be clear, despite Idaho's reputation for not vaccinating (looking
backwoods) there are many legitimate reasons for choosing this path and I
would personally like to remove it from the "things ignorant folk don't
think about" list even if many ignorant folk don't do it for just that
reason!!
Mary in Idaho (no where near the box anymore)
Joel Hawthorne
Ditto. It fascinates me how I can have things in common with people with whom I
may have little else in common. We don't vaccinate (I am an RN on top of it
all) for good reasons. We neither smoke nor drink. Aren't especially
religious. Have anarcho, libertarian, communitarian socialist,anti-oliarchy,
individualistic sort of politics which change depending on the issue.
Lisa Bugg wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
may have little else in common. We don't vaccinate (I am an RN on top of it
all) for good reasons. We neither smoke nor drink. Aren't especially
religious. Have anarcho, libertarian, communitarian socialist,anti-oliarchy,
individualistic sort of politics which change depending on the issue.
Lisa Bugg wrote:
> From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>--
>
> > . <<< We also noticed that they have a problem
> > with getting people to get their kids vaccinated!! >>>
> >
> > Now, that is a whole other subject. I am sure there are allot of people
> here
> > and there and everywhere who don't vaccinate for the same reason they
> don't
> > use a car seat or read the labels on the food they feed their children,
> > ignorance and careless disregard. >
>
> I'll jump in..... we also choose not to vaccinate, and it's surely not
> because of ignorance. :) I really liked the issue of Mothering that covered
> this topic last year. It might help some understand why others actively
> choose not to vaccinate.
>
> LisaKK
>
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 11:34 AM 8/9/99 EDT, you wrote:
choices made by concerned parents. However, that is not what we are
talking about here. I would not consider this to be a "Radical, Outside
the Box, Freethinkers" population. I think it is more a factor of
ignorance and passivity.
By the way, educate me as to the reasons that some of you do not vaccinate.
I have never read or heard anything on the subject and it intrigues me.
It surprises me that I have never heard of it (not vaccinating for sound
medical reasons) as I have been sick and in and out of the hospital all my
life. I might have been diagnosed with an impaired immune system, if my
parents cared enough to do anything about it. I get SOOOO angry when I
think about it/them. They also never diagnosed my Asthma, I had to do that
myself and could not get medication for it until I was on my own. In
keeping with my pattern of stubborn disobedience in the IS system in the
interests of self preservation, I simply refused to participate in GYM,
because most days we would be doing something too stenuous for me with my
Asthma. Without a Dr.'s note they would not "go easy" on me, so I just sat
out.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Rhiahl@...I appreciate what I have been hearing from you all about informed medical
>
>In a message dated 8/9/99 8:02:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>tn-k4of5@... writes:
>
><< We also noticed that they have a problem with getting people to get
>their kids vaccinated!! >>
>
>Well good for them.... I wonder if it's a real objection to vaccinations or
>they just don't take them in. I would hope for the former.
>
>Charlotte
choices made by concerned parents. However, that is not what we are
talking about here. I would not consider this to be a "Radical, Outside
the Box, Freethinkers" population. I think it is more a factor of
ignorance and passivity.
By the way, educate me as to the reasons that some of you do not vaccinate.
I have never read or heard anything on the subject and it intrigues me.
It surprises me that I have never heard of it (not vaccinating for sound
medical reasons) as I have been sick and in and out of the hospital all my
life. I might have been diagnosed with an impaired immune system, if my
parents cared enough to do anything about it. I get SOOOO angry when I
think about it/them. They also never diagnosed my Asthma, I had to do that
myself and could not get medication for it until I was on my own. In
keeping with my pattern of stubborn disobedience in the IS system in the
interests of self preservation, I simply refused to participate in GYM,
because most days we would be doing something too stenuous for me with my
Asthma. Without a Dr.'s note they would not "go easy" on me, so I just sat
out.
Nanci K. in Idaho
Joel Hawthorne
There is a lot out there on vaccination which I haven't bookmarked but I'm sure
many people will send you. Now the bad news I have heard on at least two
separate occasions that some respiratory drs. theorize that the tremendous rise
in asthma is in fact directly related to mass vaccination. I am not sure of the
mechanics of how it works. I have also heard allergies being related to not
breast feeding long enough.
There is an alleged connection between how the implementation of modern sewage
systems and increased hygiene caused the polio epidemic of the 40's and 50's.
These children were the first generation wherein getting the disease from their
environment because they had not been given immunity to it from their mothers
because their mothers were not exposed to it (having immunity from their mothers)
because of modern sanitation.
We keep thinking we know what we are doing but we don't quite get it. This is
not to say that I think polio immunization is a bad thing. The Salk version
being better than the Sabin. Other immunizations I'm not so sure about.
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
many people will send you. Now the bad news I have heard on at least two
separate occasions that some respiratory drs. theorize that the tremendous rise
in asthma is in fact directly related to mass vaccination. I am not sure of the
mechanics of how it works. I have also heard allergies being related to not
breast feeding long enough.
There is an alleged connection between how the implementation of modern sewage
systems and increased hygiene caused the polio epidemic of the 40's and 50's.
These children were the first generation wherein getting the disease from their
environment because they had not been given immunity to it from their mothers
because their mothers were not exposed to it (having immunity from their mothers)
because of modern sanitation.
We keep thinking we know what we are doing but we don't quite get it. This is
not to say that I think polio immunization is a bad thing. The Salk version
being better than the Sabin. Other immunizations I'm not so sure about.
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
> From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>--
>
> At 11:34 AM 8/9/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >From: Rhiahl@...
> >
> >In a message dated 8/9/99 8:02:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >tn-k4of5@... writes:
> >
> ><< We also noticed that they have a problem with getting people to get
> >their kids vaccinated!! >>
> >
> >Well good for them.... I wonder if it's a real objection to vaccinations or
> >they just don't take them in. I would hope for the former.
> >
> >Charlotte
>
> I appreciate what I have been hearing from you all about informed medical
> choices made by concerned parents. However, that is not what we are
> talking about here. I would not consider this to be a "Radical, Outside
> the Box, Freethinkers" population. I think it is more a factor of
> ignorance and passivity.
>
> By the way, educate me as to the reasons that some of you do not vaccinate.
> I have never read or heard anything on the subject and it intrigues me.
> It surprises me that I have never heard of it (not vaccinating for sound
> medical reasons) as I have been sick and in and out of the hospital all my
> life. I might have been diagnosed with an impaired immune system, if my
> parents cared enough to do anything about it. I get SOOOO angry when I
> think about it/them. They also never diagnosed my Asthma, I had to do that
> myself and could not get medication for it until I was on my own. In
> keeping with my pattern of stubborn disobedience in the IS system in the
> interests of self preservation, I simply refused to participate in GYM,
> because most days we would be doing something too stenuous for me with my
> Asthma. Without a Dr.'s note they would not "go easy" on me, so I just sat
> out.
>
> Nanci K. in Idaho
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
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best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
mrstar
The thing to understand is that vaccination (immunization is a misnomer)
doesn't make you immune to said illness. What it does is give you a chronic
case of said illness so that you become unable to contract an acute case.
Your immune system is constantly under attack and constantly producing
antibodies to fight diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, tetnus, pertussis
(my kids have had this, no big deal for healthy children, we had an outbreak
in northern Idaho a few years ago and 70% of those who contracted it had
been vaccinated!! what is the point?), hepatitisB, and POLIO!! (I understand
that the only know cases of Polio in this country these days are a direct
result of vaccination). So, when you assault the developing immune system of
a baby with all of this you basically set them up for problems. The reason
they have to keep going back for boosters--their immune system wasn't
developed enough in the first place to react in the desired way to the
vaccinations. So there they are with their immune systems so busy taking
care of all these chronic illnesses that it can't handle some of the other
things the world throws their way, like pet dander or peanuts or less than
clean air. You know, some of the foods that are the most highly allergenic
probably weren't meant for food in the first place i.e.; milk ( we are the
only animals who aren't weaned, drinking the secretions from a cows udder
how gross) , peanuts, and wheat. There are adequate foods in the world that
more efficiently provide the nutrients we get from those foods. Anyway, I
have sent Nanci the most recent information in vaccinations that I have and
would be happy to post it here if I see any more interest, or feel free to e
mail me privately. And, thank you to my friend who is lurking here for the
vaccination information, you know who you are. I am sure for the most part
I am preaching to the choir as those outside the box in one area tend to be
outside the box in others.
Mary in Idaho (who seems quite long winded today, must be something in the
air)
doesn't make you immune to said illness. What it does is give you a chronic
case of said illness so that you become unable to contract an acute case.
Your immune system is constantly under attack and constantly producing
antibodies to fight diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, tetnus, pertussis
(my kids have had this, no big deal for healthy children, we had an outbreak
in northern Idaho a few years ago and 70% of those who contracted it had
been vaccinated!! what is the point?), hepatitisB, and POLIO!! (I understand
that the only know cases of Polio in this country these days are a direct
result of vaccination). So, when you assault the developing immune system of
a baby with all of this you basically set them up for problems. The reason
they have to keep going back for boosters--their immune system wasn't
developed enough in the first place to react in the desired way to the
vaccinations. So there they are with their immune systems so busy taking
care of all these chronic illnesses that it can't handle some of the other
things the world throws their way, like pet dander or peanuts or less than
clean air. You know, some of the foods that are the most highly allergenic
probably weren't meant for food in the first place i.e.; milk ( we are the
only animals who aren't weaned, drinking the secretions from a cows udder
how gross) , peanuts, and wheat. There are adequate foods in the world that
more efficiently provide the nutrients we get from those foods. Anyway, I
have sent Nanci the most recent information in vaccinations that I have and
would be happy to post it here if I see any more interest, or feel free to e
mail me privately. And, thank you to my friend who is lurking here for the
vaccination information, you know who you are. I am sure for the most part
I am preaching to the choir as those outside the box in one area tend to be
outside the box in others.
Mary in Idaho (who seems quite long winded today, must be something in the
air)
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/99 8:49:30 AM EST, mrstar@... writes:
<< Anyway, I
have sent Nanci the most recent information in vaccinations that I have and
would be happy to post it here if I see any more interest, or feel free to e
mail me privately. >>
I would appreciate having more information on this subject - either to the
whole group if others have expressed interest or just to me privately. As an
RN, unfortunately, I know very little about this area. I seem to have just
taken the "facts" which were given to me in nursing school, and never did any
further research on my own. In fact I have to admit that I was terrified
when my dd was an infant and we changed pediatricians. Our new ped. was
talking about vaccinations and explained that she always gave two doses of
the "dead" polio vaccine, followed by two doses of the "live" vaccine because
if you gave all oral polio vaccinations ("live"), the child could actually
contract polio. To my horror, I had to tell her that my dd had already
received all OPVs, because that is what our previous ped. did -- no
discussion, no options, no information. So, this is an area that I would
definitely like to know more about.
Candice in OK (still trying to get around to that intro!)
<< Anyway, I
have sent Nanci the most recent information in vaccinations that I have and
would be happy to post it here if I see any more interest, or feel free to e
mail me privately. >>
I would appreciate having more information on this subject - either to the
whole group if others have expressed interest or just to me privately. As an
RN, unfortunately, I know very little about this area. I seem to have just
taken the "facts" which were given to me in nursing school, and never did any
further research on my own. In fact I have to admit that I was terrified
when my dd was an infant and we changed pediatricians. Our new ped. was
talking about vaccinations and explained that she always gave two doses of
the "dead" polio vaccine, followed by two doses of the "live" vaccine because
if you gave all oral polio vaccinations ("live"), the child could actually
contract polio. To my horror, I had to tell her that my dd had already
received all OPVs, because that is what our previous ped. did -- no
discussion, no options, no information. So, this is an area that I would
definitely like to know more about.
Candice in OK (still trying to get around to that intro!)
mrstar
Here is a link to a site full of information on vaccinations. I don't
remember if I already posted it. Candice, if you didn't get the two articles
that were posted already e mail me privately and I will send them too you.
Mary in Idaho
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
remember if I already posted it. Candice, if you didn't get the two articles
that were posted already e mail me privately and I will send them too you.
Mary in Idaho
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm