Changing the World
[email protected]
I would like to first remind anyone who's feeling personally jumped on by me
that I don't mean to do that--I was generalizing to all negativity on the
list. It's been a fairly dark and negative week on this list.
I feel (perhaps wrongly) that the suggestion was made that I was some kind of
conservative non-hippie without gratitude who wasn't doing her part to make
the world a better place.
I would like to suggest that that is quite far from the truth.
The part of world-changing this list is designed to deal with is
homeschooling, and I have helped lots of families out of school (two,
locally, this week) and helped many more homeschooling families toward
unschooling. I've helped worried unschoolers toward peace.
I also let my cats go outside.
If I sign up for the cat-protection-at-all-costs mailing list, I'll expect to
be shamed for that. Guess what? I'm on homeschooling lists. This is no
place to shame me for not changing the world for the better.
Sandra
that I don't mean to do that--I was generalizing to all negativity on the
list. It's been a fairly dark and negative week on this list.
I feel (perhaps wrongly) that the suggestion was made that I was some kind of
conservative non-hippie without gratitude who wasn't doing her part to make
the world a better place.
I would like to suggest that that is quite far from the truth.
The part of world-changing this list is designed to deal with is
homeschooling, and I have helped lots of families out of school (two,
locally, this week) and helped many more homeschooling families toward
unschooling. I've helped worried unschoolers toward peace.
I also let my cats go outside.
If I sign up for the cat-protection-at-all-costs mailing list, I'll expect to
be shamed for that. Guess what? I'm on homeschooling lists. This is no
place to shame me for not changing the world for the better.
Sandra
Tammy Graves
I don't feel personally jumped on, but then again I'm new to the scene. I too
let one of my two cats out. I understand the cons to doing this. I use to
volunteer at a shelter and that is where my little guy came from so I am very
familiar with the whole situation. I agree too that this week, the format around
this chat has sort of been depressing, however I have gotten a lot of great
advise from a lot of you and I do appreciate it. I want to say thank you to all!
I know this may spark some more intense conversations, but I would like to hear
more regarding the reasons why some have stopped sending dd or ds or both to ps.
What was your final decision maker? How many of you have been homeschooled or
unschooled yourself? How many have older children (teenagers or older) that
were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and how are they
adjusting? I know that most teenagers in a ps often are subjected to peer
pressure about drinking/smoking/drugs, has the unschooled/homeschooled child not
been exposed. I know that some may not wish to discuss this online, but if you
have information you are willing to discuss, please feel free to email me
directly at tgraves@...
While, I have not been able to make the jump to homeschool/unschool my dd's
myself, I really would like to hear some advise and stories to help me with that
move.
Thanks for hearing me out
let one of my two cats out. I understand the cons to doing this. I use to
volunteer at a shelter and that is where my little guy came from so I am very
familiar with the whole situation. I agree too that this week, the format around
this chat has sort of been depressing, however I have gotten a lot of great
advise from a lot of you and I do appreciate it. I want to say thank you to all!
I know this may spark some more intense conversations, but I would like to hear
more regarding the reasons why some have stopped sending dd or ds or both to ps.
What was your final decision maker? How many of you have been homeschooled or
unschooled yourself? How many have older children (teenagers or older) that
were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and how are they
adjusting? I know that most teenagers in a ps often are subjected to peer
pressure about drinking/smoking/drugs, has the unschooled/homeschooled child not
been exposed. I know that some may not wish to discuss this online, but if you
have information you are willing to discuss, please feel free to email me
directly at tgraves@...
While, I have not been able to make the jump to homeschool/unschool my dd's
myself, I really would like to hear some advise and stories to help me with that
move.
Thanks for hearing me out
Tami Labig-Duquette
My dd was in 5th grade when I finally had enough crap from ps to pull her, (
and ds 9yo and dd 6yo), out of ps. I dont immunize, so my youngest never
really went to much. But my oldest was sent to detention for laughing in
class, I was so outraged! If she had cried she would not have gotten into
trouble (I was told this) and the girl who made her laugh did not get
detention at all. I mean how incredibly stupid is that? you cant be happy
and laugh or youll get in trouble, but be sad and cry and you wont! Needless
to say she never went to detention and I think the entire school heard my
say on the matter! I have so many horror stories from thier school, and
sadly enough I did not know enough about it earlier to take them out. My
only regret! They are now happier, healthier and know more than thier years
in alot of areas. They do things with peace jam, and are now raising money
for the rainforest. Its one of those wish I knew then what know now type of
deals!
Tami
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
and ds 9yo and dd 6yo), out of ps. I dont immunize, so my youngest never
really went to much. But my oldest was sent to detention for laughing in
class, I was so outraged! If she had cried she would not have gotten into
trouble (I was told this) and the girl who made her laugh did not get
detention at all. I mean how incredibly stupid is that? you cant be happy
and laugh or youll get in trouble, but be sad and cry and you wont! Needless
to say she never went to detention and I think the entire school heard my
say on the matter! I have so many horror stories from thier school, and
sadly enough I did not know enough about it earlier to take them out. My
only regret! They are now happier, healthier and know more than thier years
in alot of areas. They do things with peace jam, and are now raising money
for the rainforest. Its one of those wish I knew then what know now type of
deals!
Tami
>From: "Tammy Graves" <tgraves@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Changing the World
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:49:07 -0500
>
>I don't feel personally jumped on, but then again I'm new to the scene. I
>too
>let one of my two cats out. I understand the cons to doing this. I use to
>volunteer at a shelter and that is where my little guy came from so I am
>very
>familiar with the whole situation. I agree too that this week, the format
>around
>this chat has sort of been depressing, however I have gotten a lot of great
>advise from a lot of you and I do appreciate it. I want to say thank you to
>all!
>
>I know this may spark some more intense conversations, but I would like to
>hear
>more regarding the reasons why some have stopped sending dd or ds or both
>to ps.
>What was your final decision maker? How many of you have been homeschooled
>or
>unschooled yourself? How many have older children (teenagers or older)
>that
>were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and how are
>they
>adjusting? I know that most teenagers in a ps often are subjected to peer
>pressure about drinking/smoking/drugs, has the unschooled/homeschooled
>child not
>been exposed. I know that some may not wish to discuss this online, but if
>you
>have information you are willing to discuss, please feel free to email me
>directly at tgraves@...
>
>While, I have not been able to make the jump to homeschool/unschool my dd's
>myself, I really would like to hear some advise and stories to help me with
>that
>move.
>
>Thanks for hearing me out
>
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Tammy Graves
Helen, just curious, what has your children put down on the job applications
where it asks for a school?
where it asks for a school?
Helen Hegener
At 6:15 PM +0000 4/5/01, [email protected] wrote:
Mom and Dad didn't think school was a good place for kids, and they
kept theirs out of school as much as possible. Dad was a computer
systems analyst for the US Army, and helped develop much of what we
now know as the Internet. He designed one of the packeting systems
that helps email messages travel more easily. He taught me that
computers were already changing the world when I was barely big
enough to understand the concept. <g>
Anyway, Mom and Dad kept us out of school every chance they got,
which was pretty often since we travelled so much, and by the time I
was 12 I'd pretty much quit going to school altogether. By the time
my youngest brother and sister (both now in their late 30's) came
along, my parents had discovered John Holt's writings, and they never
attended school at all.
businesses. My youngest brother owns a very successful auto body shop
in Alaska, and my little sister attended the University of Alaska,
made the dean's list without ever having taken a test before, and is
now a writer.
Our own kids, ages 15-27, have all been totally unschooled. The
oldest, John, is superintendent of a major construction company in
Alaska, building huge commercial buildings during the construction
season and staying home with his two little girls in the winter (his
wife is an RN). John's the one who makes changes to the blueprints as
a building goes up, resulting in what's called "as-builts" instead of
"as-designed." He's also in charge of hiring, ordering materials, and
sometimes even straps on a toolbelt. He loves the work, which makes
him good at it. <g>
Second son Jim (married, also has two little girls) became an
industrial electrician (taught himself calculus when he figured out
it would make his job easier), and has travelled and worked all over
the US for several years now, making very good wages and gaining
experience with every job. Not bad for a kid who grew up 20 miles
from the nearest town and never cracked a textbook until he wanted to
learn about electricity and earn a living for his family. He just
recently moved back to this area when the first guy he worked for
made him a package offer he couldn't refuse. (It's nice to have two
of the grandkids close again! <g>)
These boys both started out by taking the bottom-rung jobs - go-fers,
cleanup, whatever - and working their way up. Both were in
superintendent positions with three years, and both have personal
recommendations a mile long for their exceptional abilities,
attitudes, and general willingness to go the extra mile when needed
on a job. From talking with their respective bosses and coworkers
over the years, it seems those are rare qualities these days, and
highly valued in any job market.
We have three younger kids who've done similarly well in completely
different ways, but this is getting pretty long. <g>
local alternative school kids in our community, attending all the
local parties, working at the hippy co-op in town, helping coordinate
local music festivals and other events, volunteering and helping out
at community gatherings for various causes, etc. - and they've seen
it all. They've made their own determinations about what's right and
what's not, based in large part (I assume) on how we raised them and
the attitudes we modeled, and we're very happy with their decisions.
Helen
>Message: 24It wasn't called that back then, but I was homeschooled in the '60's.
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:49:07 -0500
> From: "Tammy Graves" <tgraves@...>
>Subject: Re: Changing the World
>
> How many of you have been homeschooled or unschooled yourself?
Mom and Dad didn't think school was a good place for kids, and they
kept theirs out of school as much as possible. Dad was a computer
systems analyst for the US Army, and helped develop much of what we
now know as the Internet. He designed one of the packeting systems
that helps email messages travel more easily. He taught me that
computers were already changing the world when I was barely big
enough to understand the concept. <g>
Anyway, Mom and Dad kept us out of school every chance they got,
which was pretty often since we travelled so much, and by the time I
was 12 I'd pretty much quit going to school altogether. By the time
my youngest brother and sister (both now in their late 30's) came
along, my parents had discovered John Holt's writings, and they never
attended school at all.
> How many have older children (teenagers or older) thatWell, that brother and sister I just mentioned both own their own
>were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and
>how are they
>adjusting?
businesses. My youngest brother owns a very successful auto body shop
in Alaska, and my little sister attended the University of Alaska,
made the dean's list without ever having taken a test before, and is
now a writer.
Our own kids, ages 15-27, have all been totally unschooled. The
oldest, John, is superintendent of a major construction company in
Alaska, building huge commercial buildings during the construction
season and staying home with his two little girls in the winter (his
wife is an RN). John's the one who makes changes to the blueprints as
a building goes up, resulting in what's called "as-builts" instead of
"as-designed." He's also in charge of hiring, ordering materials, and
sometimes even straps on a toolbelt. He loves the work, which makes
him good at it. <g>
Second son Jim (married, also has two little girls) became an
industrial electrician (taught himself calculus when he figured out
it would make his job easier), and has travelled and worked all over
the US for several years now, making very good wages and gaining
experience with every job. Not bad for a kid who grew up 20 miles
from the nearest town and never cracked a textbook until he wanted to
learn about electricity and earn a living for his family. He just
recently moved back to this area when the first guy he worked for
made him a package offer he couldn't refuse. (It's nice to have two
of the grandkids close again! <g>)
These boys both started out by taking the bottom-rung jobs - go-fers,
cleanup, whatever - and working their way up. Both were in
superintendent positions with three years, and both have personal
recommendations a mile long for their exceptional abilities,
attitudes, and general willingness to go the extra mile when needed
on a job. From talking with their respective bosses and coworkers
over the years, it seems those are rare qualities these days, and
highly valued in any job market.
We have three younger kids who've done similarly well in completely
different ways, but this is getting pretty long. <g>
> I know that most teenagers in a ps often are subjected to peerOur kids have always hung out with the public school crowd and the
>pressure about drinking/smoking/drugs, has the
>unschooled/homeschooled child not
>been exposed.
local alternative school kids in our community, attending all the
local parties, working at the hippy co-op in town, helping coordinate
local music festivals and other events, volunteering and helping out
at community gatherings for various causes, etc. - and they've seen
it all. They've made their own determinations about what's right and
what's not, based in large part (I assume) on how we raised them and
the attitudes we modeled, and we're very happy with their decisions.
Helen
Vaughnde Edwards
Speaking of electricity...I don't know how many of you
realize that I am deaf, but I have two non-functioning doorbell thingys that you
plug in and attatch the doorbell to the outside with long wiring connected to
it. The one that I could open had something like a computer chip thingy in it.
Every time I tried to plug in both of them, it would short out aka make the
light flash without the bell being pushed. I would love to be able to fix either
one of these without going to an electrician or learn how to create a better one
for myself with a plastic box, light bulb attatchment, phone wiring and one of
those doorbell thingys you can pick up at any home dept store. Is there any
books or advice I can glean from someone in order to create one that won't short
out and will allow me to NOT depend on my daughter when someone is at the
door??
This is totally frustrating. I paid big bucks for these
products, moved them with me across state lines and they don't work?
grrrrrrrr.
Jessica
-----Original Message-----At 6:15 PM +0000 4/5/01, [email protected] wrote:
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:36 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Changing the World
>Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:49:07 -0500
> From: "Tammy Graves" <tgraves@...>
>Subject: Re: Changing the World
>
> How many of you have been homeschooled or unschooled yourself?
It wasn't called that back then, but I was homeschooled in the '60's.
Mom and Dad didn't think school was a good place for kids, and they
kept theirs out of school as much as possible. Dad was a computer
systems analyst for the US Army, and helped develop much of what we
now know as the Internet. He designed one of the packeting systems
that helps email messages travel more easily. He taught me that
computers were already changing the world when I was barely big
enough to understand the concept. <g>
Anyway, Mom and Dad kept us out of school every chance they got,
which was pretty often since we travelled so much, and by the time I
was 12 I'd pretty much quit going to school altogether. By the time
my youngest brother and sister (both now in their late 30's) came
along, my parents had discovered John Holt's writings, and they never
attended school at all.
> How many have older children (teenagers or older) that
>were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and
>how are they
>adjusting?
Well, that brother and sister I just mentioned both own their own
businesses. My youngest brother owns a very successful auto body shop
in Alaska, and my little sister attended the University of Alaska,
made the dean's list without ever having taken a test before, and is
now a writer.
Our own kids, ages 15-27, have all been totally unschooled. The
oldest, John, is superintendent of a major construction company in
Alaska, building huge commercial buildings during the construction
season and staying home with his two little girls in the winter (his
wife is an RN). John's the one who makes changes to the blueprints as
a building goes up, resulting in what's called "as-builts" instead of
"as-designed." He's also in charge of hiring, ordering materials, and
sometimes even straps on a toolbelt. He loves the work, which makes
him good at it. <g>
Second son Jim (married, also has two little girls) became an
industrial electrician (taught himself calculus when he figured out
it would make his job easier), and has travelled and worked all over
the US for several years now, making very good wages and gaining
experience with every job. Not bad for a kid who grew up 20 miles
from the nearest town and never cracked a textbook until he wanted to
learn about electricity and earn a living for his family. He just
recently moved back to this area when the first guy he worked for
made him a package offer he couldn't refuse. (It's nice to have two
of the grandkids close again! <g>)
These boys both started out by taking the bottom-rung jobs - go-fers,
cleanup, whatever - and working their way up. Both were in
superintendent positions with three years, and both have personal
recommendations a mile long for their exceptional abilities,
attitudes, and general willingness to go the extra mile when needed
on a job. From talking with their respective bosses and coworkers
over the years, it seems those are rare qualities these days, and
highly valued in any job market.
We have three younger kids who've done similarly well in completely
different ways, but this is getting pretty long. <g>
> I know that most teenagers in a ps often are subjected to peer
>pressure about drinking/smoking/drugs, has the
>unschooled/homeschooled child not
>been exposed.
Our kids have always hung out with the public school crowd and the
local alternative school kids in our community, attending all the
local parties, working at the hippy co-op in town, helping coordinate
local music festivals and other events, volunteering and helping out
at community gatherings for various causes, etc. - and they've seen
it all. They've made their own determinations about what's right and
what's not, based in large part (I assume) on how we raised them and
the attitudes we modeled, and we're very happy with their decisions.
Helen
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Helen Hegener
At 3:32 PM -0500 4/5/01, Tammy Graves wrote:
And yes, they've gotten questions about it, which they've answered,
obviously to everyone's satisfaction, because none of them has ever
been turned down for a job they applied for.
Helen
>Helen, just curious, what has your children put down on the job applicationsEvery one of them has proudly written "homeschooled"!
>where it asks for a school?
And yes, they've gotten questions about it, which they've answered,
obviously to everyone's satisfaction, because none of them has ever
been turned down for a job they applied for.
Helen
Helen Hegener
At 2:51 PM -0600 4/5/01, Vaughnde Edwards wrote:
work is Marshall Brain's wonderful site, How Things Work:
http://www.howthingswork.com/
By doing a search on his site and then studying his detailed
descriptions of whatever I'm working on I've been able to figure out
some pretty complex stuff...
Helen
>Is there any books or advice I can glean from someone in order toMy favorite site when I'm trying to figure out how to make things
>create one that won't short out and will allow me to NOT depend on
>my daughter when someone is at the door??
work is Marshall Brain's wonderful site, How Things Work:
http://www.howthingswork.com/
By doing a search on his site and then studying his detailed
descriptions of whatever I'm working on I've been able to figure out
some pretty complex stuff...
Helen
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/5/01 12:47:47 PM, tgraves@... writes:
<< How many have older children (teenagers or older) that
were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and how are
they
adjusting? >>
Kirby's 14, and has had a job for six months. It's part time, but it's real,
and they offered it to him.
He also, starting next week, is teaching one session a week of the beginning
karate class at his dojo.
Pretty good for 14, I think. He's never been to school.
It makes me think he'll have no trouble whatsoever finding fulltime
employment, as adults already ask him to help, and put him in positions of
responsibility.
Sandra
<< How many have older children (teenagers or older) that
were/are unschooled/homeschooled that are now in the workplace and how are
they
adjusting? >>
Kirby's 14, and has had a job for six months. It's part time, but it's real,
and they offered it to him.
He also, starting next week, is teaching one session a week of the beginning
karate class at his dojo.
Pretty good for 14, I think. He's never been to school.
It makes me think he'll have no trouble whatsoever finding fulltime
employment, as adults already ask him to help, and put him in positions of
responsibility.
Sandra
Lynda
Hmmmm, interesting take on an "UN"schooling
list when one considers that life is unschooling <g>
Lynda, who couldn't resist, sorry %-}
----- Original Message -----From: SandraDodd@...Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:25 AMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Changing the WorldI would like to first remind anyone who's feeling personally jumped on by me
that I don't mean to do that--I was generalizing to all negativity on the
list. It's been a fairly dark and negative week on this list.
I feel (perhaps wrongly) that the suggestion was made that I was some kind of
conservative non-hippie without gratitude who wasn't doing her part to make
the world a better place.
I would like to suggest that that is quite far from the truth.
The part of world-changing this list is designed to deal with is
homeschooling, and I have helped lots of families out of school (two,
locally, this week) and helped many more homeschooling families toward
unschooling. I've helped worried unschoolers toward peace.
I also let my cats go outside.
If I sign up for the cat-protection-at-all-costs mailing list, I'll expect to
be shamed for that. Guess what? I'm on homeschooling lists. This is no
place to shame me for not changing the world for the better.
Sandra
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
Addresses:
Post message: [email protected]
Unsubscribe: [email protected]
List owner: [email protected]
List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.