Re: Re: Fw: ADD
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 12:51 AM 8/6/99 -0400, you wrote:
I am so sorry that you are upset by the tone that the conversation has
taken and I apologize for any offense that my statements may have given
you. I would like to point out that, since you are using my statements as
fuel for your ire, that I did clarify that I was not speaking about parents
whose children had been carefully diagnosed and for whom the medication was
a necessary part of their treatment. There is, in my opinion, a problem
with misdiagnosis and overmedication of children with ADD, and I was
speaking to that problem. I happen to know people whom I think are being
too quick to follow the advice of people not qualified to make such
diagnosis, or people who are known for overprescribing medication.
I know one ten year old little boy who has been on medication for the last
5 years for ADD, but they only give it to him during the school week to
ensure his maliablity in the classroom! I think that is awful for him, and
irresponsible of his parents. I have watched him, overnight, on numerous
weekends when he is NOT being medicated and while he is excitable and
enthusiastic, and I do sometimes have to gently hold his chin to get him to
focus on what I am saying to him, he is for the most part no problem. He
is a delightful child, loves to play complicated computer games, is
intelligent and happy and articulate. I do not believe that 5 day a week
medication is a necessary course of action for him. His mother does not
work outside of the home and I see no reason why she could not spend more
time with him at home, rather than sending him to school where they have to
drug him into submission.
Let us all remember that this is a friendly discussion, and again, I
apologize if I was generalizing or if my statements gave offense. I value
your voice and your opinions Tanya, and I don't want you to feel attacked
or defensive here. I am thankful that my children have not been diagnosed
with ADD, however I have already had several people tell me that my older
boy is a prime candidate for ADD. He also has severe Asthma, allergies to
spices and preservatives, pet allergies, extreme allergies (like projectile
vomiting, hives and ER visits) to eggs and Dairy products, as well as a
fatal allergy to ALL nuts. I cannot let him out of my sight - ever. When
we are at playgroup I have to inspect EVERYTHING that the other children
are eating to ensure his safety. I will wash the other kids' hands (if
they were eating say, a cream cheese bagel or cheese) as his allergies are
severe enough to have a skin reaction if they touch him. I cannot tell you
how many times my heart has leapt into my throat when I catch him eating
something when I don't know what it is, or when other children try to share
things with him and I have to shout NO! and hurry to interrupt the exchange
before I have to take him to the hospital. All this without scaring him or
the other children or making him feel as though he is different. Last week
at Playgroup they had Carrot Cake (with Walnuts!) and my sons and I stayed
locked in the house watching a video while the other moms and tots had
their cake on the patio. I have been advised by a number of ER doctors,
and his Ped. to carry his Asthma medication, his Allergy medication and his
skin medication EVERYWHERE he goes, "Just in Case." He cannot eat most
things on kid's menus, he has never had Chinese food (due to a frequent use
of nuts and nut oils,) he has never been to Day Care and has had VERY FEW
babysitters. He sleeps fitfully and often with a humidifier due to his
Asthma. He is not allowed to "Help Himself" to ANY FOOD, EVER! Even if
the other kids are all eating it, he still needs to ask Mom or Dad. He has
never had any Birthday Cake, or most baked goods for that matter, he has
never had real ice cream or real milk, he has never had a grilled cheese
sandwich or a peanut butter sandwich, or pizza, and I have almost lost him
on several occassions already. I dread the coming years when he will be
more independent and running around with his friends and I will not be
there. One Peanut M & M, or one Reeses Pieces (which look like the regular
M&M's that he CAN eat) and I would lose him, no joke!
So I do understand what it is like to deal with a child that has special
needs on a daily basis and to answer other people's intrusive questions and
dispell their misconceptions. I truly can sympatize with how you feel.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: "B & T Simpson" <michigan@...>compared to people who
>
>I think all of you who are bashing parents of ADD children should think long
>and hard about what it is like for these children and their families before
>placing this kind of judgement on them, obviously you do not have ADD
>children, "busy " children and ADD children are two completely different
>species! there was a statement made about the parents of these kids being
>let their children bounce around the car, most of the severe add children IDear Tanya;
>know wouldn't be able to be restrained without meds, some of these kids ( a
>great deal of the severe cases) can't keep these kids in anything, beds ,
>cribs, carseats ect...... and it comes as a great releif for the parents of
>these children to be able to have things like restraints finally work! you
>people who think you know so much about other peoples children and the life
>they must live have no clue how deep the love runs for these children and
>how far the parents would go to protect them and help them whatever it took!
>so before you go accusing these parents of just being lazy or bad parents
>maybe you should take a good hard long look at what they go thru every day
>of their lives and be thankful for the fact that you don't have to
>experience what we do everyday , and that you don't have to spend every
>waking moment dealing with and protecting them from the kind of ignorance
>that is out there with regards to ADD ~!!!!!!!!
>Tanya Ohio (who wished they had diagnosed my ADD during my school years!)
>><<<<What parent could, in good conscious, medicate their child daily like
>that?
>> How can we know what the long term effects of such action will be? It
>>makes me sick, like folks who drive around with their kids bouncing all
>>over the car without seatbelts while they puff away on cigaretts with the
>>windows rolled up. Or the people whose kids run around in the street (I
>>mean 3-4-5 year olds) without an adult in sight. >>>
>>
>><<<Of course, if the condition has been carefully diagnosed and medication
>is
>>required as a small PART of a course of treatment, with the ultimte goal to
>>get them functioning without it, that is definately a responsible option.
>>I could keep my son overmedicated very easily with all of his special needs
>>and allergies, but I much prefer to treat him in other ways and keep the
>>drugs out of his little body.
>>
>>Nanci K. in Idaho>>>>>
I am so sorry that you are upset by the tone that the conversation has
taken and I apologize for any offense that my statements may have given
you. I would like to point out that, since you are using my statements as
fuel for your ire, that I did clarify that I was not speaking about parents
whose children had been carefully diagnosed and for whom the medication was
a necessary part of their treatment. There is, in my opinion, a problem
with misdiagnosis and overmedication of children with ADD, and I was
speaking to that problem. I happen to know people whom I think are being
too quick to follow the advice of people not qualified to make such
diagnosis, or people who are known for overprescribing medication.
I know one ten year old little boy who has been on medication for the last
5 years for ADD, but they only give it to him during the school week to
ensure his maliablity in the classroom! I think that is awful for him, and
irresponsible of his parents. I have watched him, overnight, on numerous
weekends when he is NOT being medicated and while he is excitable and
enthusiastic, and I do sometimes have to gently hold his chin to get him to
focus on what I am saying to him, he is for the most part no problem. He
is a delightful child, loves to play complicated computer games, is
intelligent and happy and articulate. I do not believe that 5 day a week
medication is a necessary course of action for him. His mother does not
work outside of the home and I see no reason why she could not spend more
time with him at home, rather than sending him to school where they have to
drug him into submission.
Let us all remember that this is a friendly discussion, and again, I
apologize if I was generalizing or if my statements gave offense. I value
your voice and your opinions Tanya, and I don't want you to feel attacked
or defensive here. I am thankful that my children have not been diagnosed
with ADD, however I have already had several people tell me that my older
boy is a prime candidate for ADD. He also has severe Asthma, allergies to
spices and preservatives, pet allergies, extreme allergies (like projectile
vomiting, hives and ER visits) to eggs and Dairy products, as well as a
fatal allergy to ALL nuts. I cannot let him out of my sight - ever. When
we are at playgroup I have to inspect EVERYTHING that the other children
are eating to ensure his safety. I will wash the other kids' hands (if
they were eating say, a cream cheese bagel or cheese) as his allergies are
severe enough to have a skin reaction if they touch him. I cannot tell you
how many times my heart has leapt into my throat when I catch him eating
something when I don't know what it is, or when other children try to share
things with him and I have to shout NO! and hurry to interrupt the exchange
before I have to take him to the hospital. All this without scaring him or
the other children or making him feel as though he is different. Last week
at Playgroup they had Carrot Cake (with Walnuts!) and my sons and I stayed
locked in the house watching a video while the other moms and tots had
their cake on the patio. I have been advised by a number of ER doctors,
and his Ped. to carry his Asthma medication, his Allergy medication and his
skin medication EVERYWHERE he goes, "Just in Case." He cannot eat most
things on kid's menus, he has never had Chinese food (due to a frequent use
of nuts and nut oils,) he has never been to Day Care and has had VERY FEW
babysitters. He sleeps fitfully and often with a humidifier due to his
Asthma. He is not allowed to "Help Himself" to ANY FOOD, EVER! Even if
the other kids are all eating it, he still needs to ask Mom or Dad. He has
never had any Birthday Cake, or most baked goods for that matter, he has
never had real ice cream or real milk, he has never had a grilled cheese
sandwich or a peanut butter sandwich, or pizza, and I have almost lost him
on several occassions already. I dread the coming years when he will be
more independent and running around with his friends and I will not be
there. One Peanut M & M, or one Reeses Pieces (which look like the regular
M&M's that he CAN eat) and I would lose him, no joke!
So I do understand what it is like to deal with a child that has special
needs on a daily basis and to answer other people's intrusive questions and
dispell their misconceptions. I truly can sympatize with how you feel.
Nanci K. in Idaho
B & T Simpson
>Nancy, Thank you for clarifying it was very late at night when I respondedto the posts and I get sooooooo easily frustrated by people not knowing what
goes on behind closed doors, obviously you have a clue about children with
special needs, I have often wondered about allergies with my daughter, I do
know when she was 1 1/2 she had an instant change of personallity after
drinking applejuice, which makes me leary about giving it to her 13 years
later! I am not a very organized person and have a hard time tracking and
removing certain food items from her diet, I tend to loose track or forget
what I was doing until it is to late and then have to start over again, I am
currently trying to find out if the 1 year old is allergic to apples, diaper
rash has been a major problem, so I cut out all apples, but coincedentally
put him back on formula and cut the tomatoe based baby food out all at the
same time, he has eaten pizza with no effect and yesterday and today he had
a bottle of reg milk and so far no problems, so I guess I have to give the
apples back next to see!~ do you know how many baby foods have apples in
them? wow! I cannot even immagine what you go thru with the food items, how
do you choose things to eat?? I think that my life with my daughter must be
easier than yours, she may be extreeme, but with patience and understanding
we get thru, but I don't think I would survive those severe allergies only
because I am the queen of JUNK FOOD!!!! it would probably do me good to have
to give it up, but I am pretty far gone !! well again, I am sorry to all
that I blew a gasket so quickly and I do agree that kids should not be on
for the school days only that comes from the doctors of whom I almost did
in for suggesting that she not be on afterschool , weekends or summer, until
they have lived with her, which I offered for them to do for a weekend to
understand more completely ( they did not take me up on it I wonder why?)
now, if I expect absolutely nothing from my child including behavior,
responsiblity, respect, self control of any sort, self hygene, not
inflicting pain on others, then I do not need her to take her meds, but
when my child tells me that she can tell the difference and it helps her be
in control of herself, then I do know I am doing the right thing, I hope I
can get myself together to test for allergies soon, what would you suggest
as the best place to start? I do have the book is this your child, but have
it out on loan to a friend .
thank you for your support to all who gave it, and I would have sent this
thank you earlier in the week, but I have been up every night until 2:00 and
sat until 5:00 with my best friend who was visiting from michigan, and her
4 children, putting us up to 8 and during that time we painted my dining
room, stairwell, and hallway, sponge painte the livingroom , wallpapered one
wall, and put up a border, (friday night and sat night)
so I haven't had to much time to answer any email!!! there 65 to go thru
tonight before my computer will let me receive any more~
well sorry this is soooo long, just making up for lost time oh yeah and
Joel, I am not sure how I feel about the DARE program at this time but it
must have some effect on the kids because she just about wigged out when I
drank a beer this weekend!
Tanya OHio feeling overly chatty tonight!
>
>Dear Tanya;
>
>I am so sorry that you are upset by the tone that the conversation has
>taken and I apologize for any offense that my statements may have given
>you. I would like to point out that, since you are using my statements as
>fuel for your ire, that I did clarify that I was not speaking about parents
>whose children had been carefully diagnosed and for whom the medication was
>a necessary part of their treatment. There is, in my opinion, a problem
>with misdiagnosis and overmedication of children with ADD, and I was
>speaking to that problem. I happen to know people whom I think are being
>too quick to follow the advice of people not qualified to make such
>diagnosis, or people who are known for overprescribing medication.
>
>I know one ten year old little boy who has been on medication for the last
>5 years for ADD, but they only give it to him during the school week to
>ensure his maliablity in the classroom! I think that is awful for him, and
>irresponsible of his parents. I have watched him, overnight, on numerous
>weekends when he is NOT being medicated and while he is excitable and
>enthusiastic, and I do sometimes have to gently hold his chin to get him to
>focus on what I am saying to him, he is for the most part no problem. He
>is a delightful child, loves to play complicated computer games, is
>intelligent and happy and articulate. I do not believe that 5 day a week
>medication is a necessary course of action for him. His mother does not
>work outside of the home and I see no reason why she could not spend more
>time with him at home, rather than sending him to school where they have to
>drug him into submission.
>
>Let us all remember that this is a friendly discussion, and again, I
>apologize if I was generalizing or if my statements gave offense. I value
>your voice and your opinions Tanya, and I don't want you to feel attacked
>or defensive here. I am thankful that my children have not been diagnosed
>with ADD, however I have already had several people tell me that my older
>boy is a prime candidate for ADD. He also has severe Asthma, allergies to
>spices and preservatives, pet allergies, extreme allergies (like projectile
>vomiting, hives and ER visits) to eggs and Dairy products, as well as a
>fatal allergy to ALL nuts. I cannot let him out of my sight - ever. When
>we are at playgroup I have to inspect EVERYTHING that the other children
>are eating to ensure his safety. I will wash the other kids' hands (if
>they were eating say, a cream cheese bagel or cheese) as his allergies are
>severe enough to have a skin reaction if they touch him. I cannot tell you
>how many times my heart has leapt into my throat when I catch him eating
>something when I don't know what it is, or when other children try to share
>things with him and I have to shout NO! and hurry to interrupt the exchange
>before I have to take him to the hospital. All this without scaring him or
>the other children or making him feel as though he is different. Last week
>at Playgroup they had Carrot Cake (with Walnuts!) and my sons and I stayed
>locked in the house watching a video while the other moms and tots had
>their cake on the patio. I have been advised by a number of ER doctors,
>and his Ped. to carry his Asthma medication, his Allergy medication and his
>skin medication EVERYWHERE he goes, "Just in Case." He cannot eat most
>things on kid's menus, he has never had Chinese food (due to a frequent use
>of nuts and nut oils,) he has never been to Day Care and has had VERY FEW
>babysitters. He sleeps fitfully and often with a humidifier due to his
>Asthma. He is not allowed to "Help Himself" to ANY FOOD, EVER! Even if
>the other kids are all eating it, he still needs to ask Mom or Dad. He has
>never had any Birthday Cake, or most baked goods for that matter, he has
>never had real ice cream or real milk, he has never had a grilled cheese
>sandwich or a peanut butter sandwich, or pizza, and I have almost lost him
>on several occassions already. I dread the coming years when he will be
>more independent and running around with his friends and I will not be
>there. One Peanut M & M, or one Reeses Pieces (which look like the regular
>M&M's that he CAN eat) and I would lose him, no joke!
>
>So I do understand what it is like to deal with a child that has special
>needs on a daily basis and to answer other people's intrusive questions and
>dispell their misconceptions. I truly can sympatize with how you feel.
>
>Nanci K. in Idaho
>
>
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/99 8:21:56 PM, michigan@... writes:
<<Joel, I am not sure how I feel about the DARE program at this time but it
must have some effect on the kids because she just about wigged out when I
drank a beer this weekend!>>
My kid even thinks it's wrong to go to the drugstore! And this is just from
seeing brief anti-drug messages on PBS. It was a struggle to explain to him.
<<Joel, I am not sure how I feel about the DARE program at this time but it
must have some effect on the kids because she just about wigged out when I
drank a beer this weekend!>>
My kid even thinks it's wrong to go to the drugstore! And this is just from
seeing brief anti-drug messages on PBS. It was a struggle to explain to him.
>>OK, get in the car, we are going to the medicine store<< ????Betsy
Joel Hawthorne
The real danger of the prohibitionist perspective is it tends to lead people to
all or nothing views of things. This may work well for a very young child but
the older they get the more they see shades of gray or grey and then unless they
have learned to think critically, they may discount the exaggerated, often
deceitful propaganda to which they have been exposed. Then they throw out the
baby with the bath water not being able to discriminate between subtle
differences resulting in the true dangers of drug use being ignored. Kids who
are "scared" by propaganda can wind up having big time drug problems when they
hit adolescence in the context of public school especially.
ECSamHill@... wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
all or nothing views of things. This may work well for a very young child but
the older they get the more they see shades of gray or grey and then unless they
have learned to think critically, they may discount the exaggerated, often
deceitful propaganda to which they have been exposed. Then they throw out the
baby with the bath water not being able to discriminate between subtle
differences resulting in the true dangers of drug use being ignored. Kids who
are "scared" by propaganda can wind up having big time drug problems when they
hit adolescence in the context of public school especially.
ECSamHill@... wrote:
> From: ECSamHill@...--
>
> In a message dated 8/9/99 8:21:56 PM, michigan@... writes:
>
> <<Joel, I am not sure how I feel about the DARE program at this time but it
> must have some effect on the kids because she just about wigged out when I
> drank a beer this weekend!>>
>
> My kid even thinks it's wrong to go to the drugstore! And this is just from
> seeing brief anti-drug messages on PBS. It was a struggle to explain to him.
> >>OK, get in the car, we are going to the medicine store<< ????
>
> Betsy
>
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best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
Brian Loucks
How about - OK, get in the car we are going to the Pharmacy....
Brian,
(New to the list and considering homeschooling our 15 year old. All
suggestions gratefully acknowledged)
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which
conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
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Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com
Brian,
(New to the list and considering homeschooling our 15 year old. All
suggestions gratefully acknowledged)
> seeing brief anti-drug messages on PBS. It was a struggle to explain tohim.
> >>OK, get in the car, we are going to the medicine store<< ????--
>
> Betsy
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Are you? If not, see our homepage for details.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which
conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
ONElist now brings ICQ Instant Messaging to members
For details,
<a href=" http://www.onelist.com/info/news.html ">Click Here</a>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com
Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst
>From: "Brian Loucks" <pbcal@...>Well, Brian, everyone here seems to agree that Grace Llewelen's (sp?)
>(New to the list and considering homeschooling our 15 year old. All
>suggestions gratefully acknowledged)
Teenage Liberation Handbook is top notch.
Susan
Jeff & Diane Gwirtz
> Well, Brian, everyone here seems to agree that Grace Llewelen's (sp?)I like her book _Real Lives_ also. It's personal accounts of how
> Teenage Liberation Handbook is top notch.
>
teenage unschoolers spend their days. I took my daughter out of
school at 15 and have never regretted it. She's 19 now and in
college and I have a 13 year old son unschooling. What would you
like to know?
Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...