ADD
Your Name
When my oldest son was in preschool I had people suggesting he was ADD and I
should have him tested. I spoke to one of the teachers about it and she
said that her brother had ADD. She told me that if you see a child with ADD
you don't have to wonder if they need help you know it. There is a big
difference in treating a child like this and medicating a large group of
children who do not fit into the classroom situation. Because doctors and
teachers (who seem to make many of these diagnoses) don't differentiate
between the children with clinical ADD and those who are medicated for the
convenience of the teacher (and often the parent) it is difficult to discuss
the issue. Many of us live with children who would be diagnosed as ADD if
they were in the school system and we know our kids do not need medication.
I would not assume that all children labeled ADD are misdiagnosed and I
would not pretend to know what it is like to live with these children.
Basically, we are talking about apples and oranges here but society's label
is the same. It would be cumbersome to always write "those children who are
labeled ADD but are fine (although challenging) if they are not in school".
Using labels in e-mail is a real problem. In a face to face discussion you
would say - well I am not talking about children with clinical ADD or some
such thing and the other person wouldn't be feeling judged. Yet if you have
to clarify the label every time you use it - it would be impossible to read.
Not sure what the answer is.
I think it is very difficult for parents to buck the teachers if they are
recommending Ritalin. If the parent believes that the schools/teachers know
what they are doing they think it will help their child succeed. I think
that it is also often a relief for the parents who have been struggling with
"controlling" these kids and trying to get them to conform. Most people and
particularly parents who don't have spirited children are very ready and
vocal in telling you that your parenting is the problem. That you are
failing your child by not making them behave appropriately. What a relief
to be told that your child has a medical problem that he/she can be treated
for. What a relief that their grades in school will improve and that the
teacher will no longer be "picking" on your child. Although I strongly
disagree with these parents decision to medicate (not talking about true ADD
here) I do understand and I do believe that many if not most parents are
doing what they believe is the best thing for their child.
Jill
should have him tested. I spoke to one of the teachers about it and she
said that her brother had ADD. She told me that if you see a child with ADD
you don't have to wonder if they need help you know it. There is a big
difference in treating a child like this and medicating a large group of
children who do not fit into the classroom situation. Because doctors and
teachers (who seem to make many of these diagnoses) don't differentiate
between the children with clinical ADD and those who are medicated for the
convenience of the teacher (and often the parent) it is difficult to discuss
the issue. Many of us live with children who would be diagnosed as ADD if
they were in the school system and we know our kids do not need medication.
I would not assume that all children labeled ADD are misdiagnosed and I
would not pretend to know what it is like to live with these children.
Basically, we are talking about apples and oranges here but society's label
is the same. It would be cumbersome to always write "those children who are
labeled ADD but are fine (although challenging) if they are not in school".
Using labels in e-mail is a real problem. In a face to face discussion you
would say - well I am not talking about children with clinical ADD or some
such thing and the other person wouldn't be feeling judged. Yet if you have
to clarify the label every time you use it - it would be impossible to read.
Not sure what the answer is.
I think it is very difficult for parents to buck the teachers if they are
recommending Ritalin. If the parent believes that the schools/teachers know
what they are doing they think it will help their child succeed. I think
that it is also often a relief for the parents who have been struggling with
"controlling" these kids and trying to get them to conform. Most people and
particularly parents who don't have spirited children are very ready and
vocal in telling you that your parenting is the problem. That you are
failing your child by not making them behave appropriately. What a relief
to be told that your child has a medical problem that he/she can be treated
for. What a relief that their grades in school will improve and that the
teacher will no longer be "picking" on your child. Although I strongly
disagree with these parents decision to medicate (not talking about true ADD
here) I do understand and I do believe that many if not most parents are
doing what they believe is the best thing for their child.
Jill
David Albert
>There have been some very interesting studies done of situations where
>
> I think it is very difficult for parents to buck the teachers if they
> are
> recommending Ritalin. If the parent believes that the
> schools/teachers know
> what they are doing they think it will help their child succeed.
the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is on
Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
what happened.
David Albert
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 03:31 PM 8/8/99 -0700, you wrote:
one would love to hear what the results were.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: David Albert <shantinik@...>Do tell. That is a fasciinating twist on a placebo experiment, and I for
>
>>
>>
>> I think it is very difficult for parents to buck the teachers if they
>> are
>> recommending Ritalin. If the parent believes that the
>> schools/teachers know
>> what they are doing they think it will help their child succeed.
>
>There have been some very interesting studies done of situations where
>the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is on
>Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
>what happened.
>
>David Albert
one would love to hear what the results were.
Nanci K. in Idaho
David Albert
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall wrote:
grades went up!
> From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>In virtually every case, the teacher found improvement, and the kids'
>
> At 03:31 PM 8/8/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it is very difficult for parents to buck the teachers if
> they
> >> are
> >> recommending Ritalin. If the parent believes that the
> >> schools/teachers know
> >> what they are doing they think it will help their child succeed.
> >
> >There have been some very interesting studies done of situations
> where
> >the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is
> on
> >Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
> >what happened.
> >
> >David Albert
>
> Do tell. That is a fasciinating twist on a placebo experiment, and I
> for
> one would love to hear what the results were.
>
> Nanci K. in Idaho
grades went up!
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscription ratesReally?!?!? How horrifying. Does that mean that we are breeding a
>percapita)
generation of Human Pototoes here in Spud country?
Nanci K. in Idaho
mrstar
<<There have been some very interesting studies done of situations where
the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is on
Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
what happened.
David Albert>>
<<Do tell. That is a fasciinating twist on a placebo experiment, and I for
one would love to hear what the results were.
Nanci K. in Idaho>>
I for two!!
Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscription rates
percapita)
the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is on
Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
what happened.
David Albert>>
<<Do tell. That is a fasciinating twist on a placebo experiment, and I for
one would love to hear what the results were.
Nanci K. in Idaho>>
I for two!!
Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscription rates
percapita)
Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst
I would surmise that the teachers began *expecting* cooperation and better
behavior.....and that their expectaions were met (successful self-fulfilling
prophesy!)
:-) Susan in KY
behavior.....and that their expectaions were met (successful self-fulfilling
prophesy!)
:-) Susan in KY
>From: "mrstar" <mrstar@...>rates
>
><<There have been some very interesting studies done of situations where
>the teachers have recommended Ritalin, and are then told the child is on
>Ritalian (even though he/she's isn't). You can imagine quite easily
>what happened.
>
>David Albert>>
>
>
>
><<Do tell. That is a fasciinating twist on a placebo experiment, and I for
>one would love to hear what the results were.
>
>Nanci K. in Idaho>>
>
>
>I for two!!
>
>Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscription
>percapita)
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,
>programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
><a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
mrstar
>Mary in Idaho (state known for one of the highest ritalin perscriptionrates
>percapita)<<<Really?!?!? How horrifying. Does that mean that we are breeding a
generation of Human Pototoes here in Spud country?
Nanci K. in Idaho>>>
They have to do something I guess (from their perspective anyway) as we also
have like the second lowest education budget in the country. Of course, home
education is running rampant here!!!
Mary in Idaho
linjoy w
My sil works in the schools in Idaho, gives her kid ritalin and is anti
homeschooling - would make it against the law if she could, go figure.
LJ
homeschooling - would make it against the law if she could, go figure.
LJ
Joel Hawthorne
The guild members must protect the guild. This is the downside to guilds
and unions they sometimes wind up protecting the jobs of people who are
engaged in something less than socially useful tasks.
linjoy w wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which
conserve, restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society
i.e. restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
and unions they sometimes wind up protecting the jobs of people who are
engaged in something less than socially useful tasks.
linjoy w wrote:
> From: linjoy w <linjoy1@...>--
>
> My sil works in the schools in Idaho, gives her kid ritalin and is anti
> homeschooling - would make it against the law if she could, go figure.
> LJ
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com!
> If you join ONElist�s FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to
> http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which
conserve, restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society
i.e. restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
Jill
>having discovered that the 'spirited' behavior is common amonggifted children, they seem to feel that the behavior is acceptable, and must
be
accepted by everyone.
I agree with your comments about teaching children how to respect others.
It takes longer with some children but it is important to persist. I also
had to realize that there were some group things I could not do with my
child. As much as I wanted to be there and as much as I wanted him to be
there it was not reasonable to disrupt the group because my child didn't
cooperate. I just had to wait until he could function well in that
situation. That is not to say that I didn't try things - I just didn't keep
doing them if they didn't work well for my child or others. It isn't good
for children to be in situations that they can't handle either - no matter
how much we think it might be good for them.
>'you have to play my way,because I'm gifted and I so know better than you what to do'. His sister was
very
much the same, but is finally learning, the hard way, at 12,
I think I hate the gifted label as much as I hate any other label. Not
every parent or child abuses it but I think it is so easy to misuse this
information. If it helps a parent find appropriate activities for the child
great. However, it is getting to the stage ( I suspect when interacting
with high achieving parents) that every child is either gifted, ADD, or has
learning disabilities - what happened to normal or average. By definition
most children are average. A very small % of children (2.5% at either end
of the spectrum) have fall outside the curve. I want to start some kind of
group for average children - not really that is a joke - I truly do not see
any benefits in labeling my child. No child is gifted in all areas. I
think it behooves us to remember that. No matter how smart my son is about
reading or numbers or facts or figures every other kid out there will
probably be better than him at something. Thank goodness. We all can have
some aspect of our lives that we feel good at. Gifted children need to know
this. If not they feel better than others and confused when they can't do
something well. It is almost setting them up for failure in life. The
statistics on Mensa people indicate that they are not all that successful in
life. Obviously some are successful but so are many people who don't have
these amazing IQ's. It is great for kids to feel that they are good at
certain things but they also need to know that they don't have to be good at
everything.
One of the big benefits of unschooling is that you can work with your child
at whatever level they are capable of without having to compare to others.
It is irrelevant to the child that they are reading at 5th grade level when
they are 4. How does that help them learn more stuff in interesting ways?
How does that help them be a better person? How does that help the parent
you are telling whose 9 year old isn't reading? How does it make others
want to interact with your child? It is great to feel proud of your
child's achievements but the child must feel that you are proud of them not
what they can do.
I repeat that I do not think that everyone who labels their child is
misusing that label. I repeat that deterring the ways in which your child
is different from others can be very helpful for parents who use that
information to change their expectations of the child or provide appropriate
stimuli for them. I am not talking about you here. It can also be helpful
to share that information with people that the child interacts with so they
can adjust their expectations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 08/11/1999 2:03:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jillmca@... writes:
<< However, it is getting to the stage ( I suspect when interacting
with high achieving parents) that every child is either gifted, ADD, or has
learning disabilities - what happened to normal or average. >>
"Normal" and "Average" students don't get extra funding...."gifted" "ADD" and
"LD" students do. I find it interesting that all these labels came about at
the same time....coincidence or just school-budgeting problems during tax cut
times?
In my day ("the good ol' days"...OK, OK, so I'm older than most of you!) if
you had trouble reading, they sent you into another room for remedial work at
the same time as the rest of the class had their regular reading time. There
were no other remedial classes...just in reading. There was no "gifted"
program, you just did more work, i.e., I did both 3rd and 6th grades in 1
semester each...which consisted mostly of more homework!!
Sam
jillmca@... writes:
<< However, it is getting to the stage ( I suspect when interacting
with high achieving parents) that every child is either gifted, ADD, or has
learning disabilities - what happened to normal or average. >>
"Normal" and "Average" students don't get extra funding...."gifted" "ADD" and
"LD" students do. I find it interesting that all these labels came about at
the same time....coincidence or just school-budgeting problems during tax cut
times?
In my day ("the good ol' days"...OK, OK, so I'm older than most of you!) if
you had trouble reading, they sent you into another room for remedial work at
the same time as the rest of the class had their regular reading time. There
were no other remedial classes...just in reading. There was no "gifted"
program, you just did more work, i.e., I did both 3rd and 6th grades in 1
semester each...which consisted mostly of more homework!!
Sam
Brown
Hi Jill
I liked your comments. I have one son who had tantrums. Eventually I worked out
somethings that helped a bit - like making sure he had food and drink on a far
more precisely regular basis that any of my other kids needed. But really, it is
partly just his temperament - guess who he inherited it from :-(
The great thing about homeschooling is that he has had the space to work through
it. At 15 he has more control than his 47yo mother! When he was little I removed
him. As he got older, he removed himself. Older still, he learned to remove
himself when he felt himself getting wound up. In school that just couldn't have
happened.
has been spoiled, so it's great if you can find a sympathetic friend who is
willing to take on your other children while you remove the disruptive one.
great. But it can put tremendous pressure on the child, and can be badly abused.
about theories such as Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences, yet when it
comes down to it some sort of intelligences (interpersonal, bodily-kinesthetic)
are only accepted as such if they are associated with the more traditionally
academic areas.
because of low self esteem, due to unreal expectations of themselves.
am proud of my child's achievements, I am somehow taking ownership of the
achievement for myself, and away from the child??? Being happy for them seems a
more open way.
Carol
I liked your comments. I have one son who had tantrums. Eventually I worked out
somethings that helped a bit - like making sure he had food and drink on a far
more precisely regular basis that any of my other kids needed. But really, it is
partly just his temperament - guess who he inherited it from :-(
The great thing about homeschooling is that he has had the space to work through
it. At 15 he has more control than his 47yo mother! When he was little I removed
him. As he got older, he removed himself. Older still, he learned to remove
himself when he felt himself getting wound up. In school that just couldn't have
happened.
> I agree with your comments about teaching children how to respect others.The hard bit is when you have other children, who then get angry that their fun
> It takes longer with some children but it is important to persist. I also
> had to realize that there were some group things I could not do with my
> child. As much as I wanted to be there and as much as I wanted him to be
> there it was not reasonable to disrupt the group because my child didn't
> cooperate. I just had to wait until he could function well in that
> situation. That is not to say that I didn't try things - I just didn't keep
> doing them if they didn't work well for my child or others. It isn't good
> for children to be in situations that they can't handle either - no matter
> how much we think it might be good for them.
has been spoiled, so it's great if you can find a sympathetic friend who is
willing to take on your other children while you remove the disruptive one.
> I think I hate the gifted label as much as I hate any other label. NotYeah. If it helps explain behaviour so that the child gets more stimulation,
> every parent or child abuses it but I think it is so easy to misuse this
> information. If it helps a parent find appropriate activities for the child
> great.
great. But it can put tremendous pressure on the child, and can be badly abused.
> No child is gifted in all areas. IIt is interesting that even among gifted children groups there is much talk
> think it behooves us to remember that. No matter how smart my son is about
> reading or numbers or facts or figures every other kid out there will
> probably be better than him at something. Thank goodness.
about theories such as Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences, yet when it
comes down to it some sort of intelligences (interpersonal, bodily-kinesthetic)
are only accepted as such if they are associated with the more traditionally
academic areas.
> Gifted children need to knowVery very important. So much talent is lost to suicide among these people
> this. If not they feel better than others and confused when they can't do
> something well. It is almost setting them up for failure in life. The
> statistics on Mensa people indicate that they are not all that successful in
> life. Obviously some are successful but so are many people who don't have
> these amazing IQ's. It is great for kids to feel that they are good at
> certain things but they also need to know that they don't have to be good at
> everything.
because of low self esteem, due to unreal expectations of themselves.
> One of the big benefits of unschooling is that you can work with your childGreat points.
> at whatever level they are capable of without having to compare to others.
> It is irrelevant to the child that they are reading at 5th grade level when
> they are 4. How does that help them learn more stuff in interesting ways?
> How does that help them be a better person? How does that help the parent
> you are telling whose 9 year old isn't reading? How does it make others
> want to interact with your child?
> It is great to feel proud of yourI've become uncomfortable with the whole concept of 'pride'. It seems like if I
> child's achievements but the child must feel that you are proud of them not
> what they can do.
am proud of my child's achievements, I am somehow taking ownership of the
achievement for myself, and away from the child??? Being happy for them seems a
more open way.
Carol
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 6:56:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
In my opinion -- and I certainly am no expert except
in my knowledge of myself and my children -- having
ADD just means you may process information and
situations differently than some other people. But
then, introverts process information differently than
extroverts. That doesn't make introversion or
extroversion a handicap.
sure, there are various ways people process information that you could use to
describe certain types of people. That does not equal "disabled" in any way.
Only in a school situation.
In the context of unschooling it is pointless. I'm glad you trusted your own
wisdom on this. There are real disabilities that a parent might need some
extra information or help for, I'm not trying to downplay the need for
outside help in some cases.
But ADD is not real if you aren't in school.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
In my opinion -- and I certainly am no expert except
in my knowledge of myself and my children -- having
ADD just means you may process information and
situations differently than some other people. But
then, introverts process information differently than
extroverts. That doesn't make introversion or
extroversion a handicap.
>>YES Shelly!!! It's just another learning style when you look at it that way.
sure, there are various ways people process information that you could use to
describe certain types of people. That does not equal "disabled" in any way.
Only in a school situation.
In the context of unschooling it is pointless. I'm glad you trusted your own
wisdom on this. There are real disabilities that a parent might need some
extra information or help for, I'm not trying to downplay the need for
outside help in some cases.
But ADD is not real if you aren't in school.
Ren
michelle_3kds
>Oh here I go and I wasn't going to :) I agree with what you sayRen, except for your last statement, that ADD is not real if you
aren't in school. IMO it should read: ADD is real, but it's only a
problem when in ps! I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
quite severe. In any case, homeschooling sure eases the life of
whoever has this, and I believe it may in some cases nearly eliminate
any problems the child may be having. But in other instances (like
ours), it is definiteley not a cure all. I must say that bringing
our son home from ps has allowed him to be a happy person, despite
any difficulties he may yet face. There has been tremendous progress
in attitude and it is much easier to aid him in learning different
coping skills. Yet there are still problems and I honestly don't
know if there are solutions for some of them. We just try to learn
ways around whatever it is.
Oh... as for the previous posters on this subject : ADD is NOT
allowed as an excuse in this house. I figure we're ALL pretty weird,
so using one persons diagnosis as an excuse simply won't wash :)
(PS... we think "different" is good.. who wants to be a normie?)
Michelle H
> YES Shelly!!! It's just another learning style when you look at itthat way.
> sure, there are various ways people process information that youcould use to
> describe certain types of people. That does not equal "disabled" inany way.
> Only in a school situation.your own
> In the context of unschooling it is pointless. I'm glad you trusted
> wisdom on this. There are real disabilities that a parent mightneed some
> extra information or help for, I'm not trying to downplay the needfor
> outside help in some cases.
> But ADD is not real if you aren't in school.
>
> Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 11:31:26 AM, mvhunt1@... writes:
<< IMO it should read: ADD is real, but it's only a
problem when in ps! I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
quite severe. In any case, homeschooling sure eases the life of
whoever has this, and I believe it may in some cases nearly eliminate
any problems the child may be having. >>
Then the problem will be the label itself.
If their "reason" for having been homeschooled is called "ADD" (instead of
being called the happy, positive real benefits of a family living together)
then "ADD" affected their whole lives.
<<Oh... as for the previous posters on this subject : ADD is NOT
allowed as an excuse in this house. I figure we're ALL pretty weird,
so using one persons diagnosis as an excuse simply won't wash :)
(PS... we think "different" is good.. who wants to be a normie?)>>
Since different is not ever going away, treating each child as the individual
he or she is without diagnoses or labels lets them just be "Bob" or "Marla"
and not "An ADD child." The simple advantage of removing the label is not at
all simple, nor small. The disadvantage of saving the label, keeping it,
attaching it, is a perpetual disadvantage.
Sandra
<< IMO it should read: ADD is real, but it's only a
problem when in ps! I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
quite severe. In any case, homeschooling sure eases the life of
whoever has this, and I believe it may in some cases nearly eliminate
any problems the child may be having. >>
Then the problem will be the label itself.
If their "reason" for having been homeschooled is called "ADD" (instead of
being called the happy, positive real benefits of a family living together)
then "ADD" affected their whole lives.
<<Oh... as for the previous posters on this subject : ADD is NOT
allowed as an excuse in this house. I figure we're ALL pretty weird,
so using one persons diagnosis as an excuse simply won't wash :)
(PS... we think "different" is good.. who wants to be a normie?)>>
Since different is not ever going away, treating each child as the individual
he or she is without diagnoses or labels lets them just be "Bob" or "Marla"
and not "An ADD child." The simple advantage of removing the label is not at
all simple, nor small. The disadvantage of saving the label, keeping it,
attaching it, is a perpetual disadvantage.
Sandra
michelle_3kds
> Not real sure what you mean here, but ADD to us is merely the namegiven to a set of identifiable issues. It is also not the main
reason we chose to homeschool, it was a part of the decision. Both dh
and I really dislike ps and all the hogwash that goes on there... we
want a happier life for our kids, where they are free to choose the
life they want. Which goes along with our placing great value on
being "different" and unique, not having ADD or Chronic Depression or
being Diabetic...those are mere bumps in our lives. But they are
present nonetheless, and to put a name to it, helps us solve the
attendant problems. And in many ways, dealing with these things have
very positive outcomes. I see no need to hide what we are.
Michelle H
> In a message dated 5/29/02 11:31:26 AM, mvhunt1@b... writes:eliminate
>
> << IMO it should read: ADD is real, but it's only a
> problem when in ps! I think there are varying degrees of this
> situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
> quite severe. In any case, homeschooling sure eases the life of
> whoever has this, and I believe it may in some cases nearly
> any problems the child may be having. >>(instead of
>
> Then the problem will be the label itself.
> If their "reason" for having been homeschooled is called "ADD"
> being called the happy, positive real benefits of a family livingtogether)
> then "ADD" affected their whole lives.weird,
>
> <<Oh... as for the previous posters on this subject : ADD is NOT
> allowed as an excuse in this house. I figure we're ALL pretty
> so using one persons diagnosis as an excuse simply won't wash :)individual
> (PS... we think "different" is good.. who wants to be a normie?)>>
>
> Since different is not ever going away, treating each child as the
> he or she is without diagnoses or labels lets them just be "Bob"or "Marla"
> and not "An ADD child." The simple advantage of removing the labelis not at
> all simple, nor small. The disadvantage of saving the label,keeping it,
> attaching it, is a perpetual disadvantage.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 2:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
aren't in school. IMO it should read: ADD is real, >>
Just as real as any learning style, which doesn't need a disability label.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
>Oh here I go and I wasn't going to :) I agree with what you sayRen, except for your last statement, that ADD is not real if you
aren't in school. IMO it should read: ADD is real, >>
Just as real as any learning style, which doesn't need a disability label.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 2:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
quite severe. >>
I meant to include this in the last post....
I do agree that certain individuals can have very challenging learning
styles, or styles of personality or whatever. I didn't want to sound like I
was saying ADD just doesn't exist and it's all in your head or
something.....there are very real challenges with certain people. But it's
not ADD. It does only exist in schools. There are many ways a person can be a
challenge, many learning styles that make certain issues difficult.
There are people with massive food allergies and that can affect how they
listen, learn, act.
As unschoolers, ADD is a moot point.
It doesn't exist. What exists is a child, with individual needs, individual
desires and challenges and not a problem to be fixed.
I'm not talking out my rear on this topic. I have a brother with severe "ADD"
that is in prison right now. I've done some research on the topic, believe me.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
quite severe. >>
I meant to include this in the last post....
I do agree that certain individuals can have very challenging learning
styles, or styles of personality or whatever. I didn't want to sound like I
was saying ADD just doesn't exist and it's all in your head or
something.....there are very real challenges with certain people. But it's
not ADD. It does only exist in schools. There are many ways a person can be a
challenge, many learning styles that make certain issues difficult.
There are people with massive food allergies and that can affect how they
listen, learn, act.
As unschoolers, ADD is a moot point.
It doesn't exist. What exists is a child, with individual needs, individual
desires and challenges and not a problem to be fixed.
I'm not talking out my rear on this topic. I have a brother with severe "ADD"
that is in prison right now. I've done some research on the topic, believe me.
Ren
[email protected]
Another thing,
The type of people that fit the "ADD" profile tend to have many food
sensitivities and do a lot better when their diet is looked at and taken into
account. This is more typical of those that get the ADHD label.
But it's worth reading about if you haven't.
It's amazing what a few diet changes did for my oldest, who has outgrown
most of his allergy problems.
Ren
The type of people that fit the "ADD" profile tend to have many food
sensitivities and do a lot better when their diet is looked at and taken into
account. This is more typical of those that get the ADHD label.
But it's worth reading about if you haven't.
It's amazing what a few diet changes did for my oldest, who has outgrown
most of his allergy problems.
Ren
Leslie Avery
I am new to this website, so I am jumping in the
middle, but I have read an excellent book that
addresses the whole ADD and ADHD issue. The Myth of
ADD by Thomas Armstrong, PhD.
I have two children one 19 with "ADD" and one 9 with
"ADHD". I found this book to be an excellent source
of information and it also helped me to see my
children as just kids and not kids with ADD or ADHD.
Just that mind set alone does alot to change the
atmosphere of the home.
We cannot change any child so we must change ourselves
and our approach to our children without labeling
them.
The more we accept them and all children the way they
are instead of trying to control them the better they
will be. I find that all kids want what we want
someone to love them unconditionally.
Leslie A.
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
middle, but I have read an excellent book that
addresses the whole ADD and ADHD issue. The Myth of
ADD by Thomas Armstrong, PhD.
I have two children one 19 with "ADD" and one 9 with
"ADHD". I found this book to be an excellent source
of information and it also helped me to see my
children as just kids and not kids with ADD or ADHD.
Just that mind set alone does alot to change the
atmosphere of the home.
We cannot change any child so we must change ourselves
and our approach to our children without labeling
them.
The more we accept them and all children the way they
are instead of trying to control them the better they
will be. I find that all kids want what we want
someone to love them unconditionally.
Leslie A.
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/29/02 2:32:29 PM Central__________________________________________________
> Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> <<
> >Oh here I go and I wasn't going to :) I agree
> with what you say
> Ren, except for your last statement, that ADD is
> not real if you
> aren't in school. IMO it should read: ADD is real,
> >>
>
> Just as real as any learning style, which doesn't
> need a disability label.
>
> Ren
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
michelle_3kds
Well there are two schools of thought (forgive the pun !). One side
believes it is a behavioral problem that may be exacerbated by
allergies or a nutritional deficiency and there is the other camp
that believes there is a physiological component... guess which sides
we're on <G> In all fairness though, I too have done extensive
researching into this. I have come to the conclusion that in OUR
case, there appears to be a genetic predisposition to this. I don't
believe it is solely a behavioral problem. ..without a doubt it "runs
in the family", both sides. There are also some other closely
related "syndromes" from each side of the families that enters into
the mix. Of course we've tried everything possible to help alleviate
the situation (Feingold Diet, allergy testing, nutritional
supplements along with standard courses of treatment).
OK. I just deleted several paragraphs of me stating my "defense".
I'm done on this topic, I could go on all day. I should never have
started. The discussion of the reality (or not) of ADD belongs on
another message board. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
believes it is a behavioral problem that may be exacerbated by
allergies or a nutritional deficiency and there is the other camp
that believes there is a physiological component... guess which sides
we're on <G> In all fairness though, I too have done extensive
researching into this. I have come to the conclusion that in OUR
case, there appears to be a genetic predisposition to this. I don't
believe it is solely a behavioral problem. ..without a doubt it "runs
in the family", both sides. There are also some other closely
related "syndromes" from each side of the families that enters into
the mix. Of course we've tried everything possible to help alleviate
the situation (Feingold Diet, allergy testing, nutritional
supplements along with standard courses of treatment).
OK. I just deleted several paragraphs of me stating my "defense".
I'm done on this topic, I could go on all day. I should never have
started. The discussion of the reality (or not) of ADD belongs on
another message board. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., starsuncloud@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/29/02 2:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
> Unschooling-dotcom@y... writes:
>
> << I think there are varying degrees of this
> situation, some people are mildy challenged, with others it can be
> quite severe. >>
>
> I meant to include this in the last post....
> I do agree that certain individuals can have very challenging
learning
> styles, or styles of personality or whatever. I didn't want to
sound like I
> was saying ADD just doesn't exist and it's all in your head or
> something.....there are very real challenges with certain people.
But it's
> not ADD. It does only exist in schools. There are many ways a
person can be a
> challenge, many learning styles that make certain issues difficult.
> There are people with massive food allergies and that can affect
how they
> listen, learn, act.
> As unschoolers, ADD is a moot point.
> It doesn't exist. What exists is a child, with individual needs,
individual
> desires and challenges and not a problem to be fixed.
> I'm not talking out my rear on this topic. I have a brother with
severe "ADD"
> that is in prison right now. I've done some research on the topic,
believe me.
>
> Ren
Shelly G
OK, OK, so maybe I have 4 cents worth on ADD, not just
2 cents worth.
<< I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with
others it can be
quite severe. >>
You are very correct. I'll add to that, though, that
some are much more successful at developing coping
skills than others. And to that I'll add that some
people cope well in some areas of their lives and fail
miserably in others. There's a very broad spectrum.
<I do agree that certain individuals can have very
challenging learning
styles, or styles of personality or whatever. I didn't
want to sound
like I
was saying ADD just doesn't exist and it's all in your
head or
something.....there are very real challenges with
certain people. But
it's
not ADD. It does only exist in schools.>
Ren, I agree and I believe this is such an important
part. With myself, I know that I do better in some
environments and situations than I do in others. So I
choose to put myself into those environments in which
I can have a reasonable expectation of success. Or at
least fairly low odds of miserable failure. I work
part-time at a job that has a very flexible schedule.
I work at home, and I do most of my work from 4am to
7am because that's when my mental faculties are most
sharp. There may be some days when I work like crazy
(in ADD-world, they call that "hyper-focus". It's a
damn handy trait, in my opinion!!) and days in a row
when I just don't get much done at all.
I feel fortunate to have an employment situation that
allows me to use my strengths and circumvent my
limitations. I've done the 9-5 in the past and it has
been really difficult for me.
My son, similarly, had a really difficult time with
the structure of school. Well, lucky us! We can
unschool and he can learn in a free and open
environment around people who value him and his
talents instead of labeling him an "ADD CHILD".
<As unschoolers, ADD is a moot point.
It doesn't exist. What exists is a child, with
individual needs,
individual
desires and challenges and not a problem to be fixed.>
Absolutely. And if you've gone through the mental
anguish of deciding how to "fix" your ADD child, this
is very liberating.
In my previous post, I certainly didn't mean to
minimize the challenges associated with raising a
child with ADD traits. I'm doing it, too. I've walked
in those shoes! So I'm sorry if that's what it
appeared that I was doing.
I just choose not to see ADD as a disability. If that
makes me delusional or naive, so be it. We're going
along merrily so far, sans public school and ADD
treatment.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2 cents worth.
<< I think there are varying degrees of this
situation, some people are mildy challenged, with
others it can be
quite severe. >>
You are very correct. I'll add to that, though, that
some are much more successful at developing coping
skills than others. And to that I'll add that some
people cope well in some areas of their lives and fail
miserably in others. There's a very broad spectrum.
<I do agree that certain individuals can have very
challenging learning
styles, or styles of personality or whatever. I didn't
want to sound
like I
was saying ADD just doesn't exist and it's all in your
head or
something.....there are very real challenges with
certain people. But
it's
not ADD. It does only exist in schools.>
Ren, I agree and I believe this is such an important
part. With myself, I know that I do better in some
environments and situations than I do in others. So I
choose to put myself into those environments in which
I can have a reasonable expectation of success. Or at
least fairly low odds of miserable failure. I work
part-time at a job that has a very flexible schedule.
I work at home, and I do most of my work from 4am to
7am because that's when my mental faculties are most
sharp. There may be some days when I work like crazy
(in ADD-world, they call that "hyper-focus". It's a
damn handy trait, in my opinion!!) and days in a row
when I just don't get much done at all.
I feel fortunate to have an employment situation that
allows me to use my strengths and circumvent my
limitations. I've done the 9-5 in the past and it has
been really difficult for me.
My son, similarly, had a really difficult time with
the structure of school. Well, lucky us! We can
unschool and he can learn in a free and open
environment around people who value him and his
talents instead of labeling him an "ADD CHILD".
<As unschoolers, ADD is a moot point.
It doesn't exist. What exists is a child, with
individual needs,
individual
desires and challenges and not a problem to be fixed.>
Absolutely. And if you've gone through the mental
anguish of deciding how to "fix" your ADD child, this
is very liberating.
In my previous post, I certainly didn't mean to
minimize the challenges associated with raising a
child with ADD traits. I'm doing it, too. I've walked
in those shoes! So I'm sorry if that's what it
appeared that I was doing.
I just choose not to see ADD as a disability. If that
makes me delusional or naive, so be it. We're going
along merrily so far, sans public school and ADD
treatment.
Shelly
=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 3:52:25 PM, mvhunt1@... writes:
<< I'm done on this topic, I could go on all day. I should never have
started. The discussion of the reality (or not) of ADD belongs on
another message board. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
with issues of how children learn, and the damage that schools and testing
and labelling can do to children?
It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees, because outside of the three or
four who are discussing it are several hundred who are reading and thinking.
Sandra
<< I'm done on this topic, I could go on all day. I should never have
started. The discussion of the reality (or not) of ADD belongs on
another message board. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
>>Why should such things not be discussed in a group of parents who are dealing
with issues of how children learn, and the damage that schools and testing
and labelling can do to children?
It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees, because outside of the three or
four who are discussing it are several hundred who are reading and thinking.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/02 9:42:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
I just choose not to see ADD as a disability. If that
makes me delusional or naive, so be it. We're going
along merrily so far, sans public school and ADD
treatment. >>
I think that's really great Shelly. I think there are many, many unique
traits in humans that too quickly get labeled a disability, when it doesn't
have to.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
I just choose not to see ADD as a disability. If that
makes me delusional or naive, so be it. We're going
along merrily so far, sans public school and ADD
treatment. >>
I think that's really great Shelly. I think there are many, many unique
traits in humans that too quickly get labeled a disability, when it doesn't
have to.
Ren
michelle_3kds
Again, what I said was I will not debate whether ADD exists or not.
I will however, glady discuss the issues surrounding ADD and
unschooling. And you're right, it really doesn't matter whether you
believe in it or not, you still need to develop coping skills to deal
with it. We believe the label "ADD" is only a problem in public
school, or at home if you let it be. My dh has adult onset diabetes,
it explains why he gets sweaty when he eats too many Krispy Kremes.
Gunnar has ADD, it explains why he can't read for an extended period
of time. My dh's life is not wrapped up in being "Diabetic" any more
than my son's is wrapped up in being "ADD". That is not all they
are, it is a part of who they are. ADD is not an ugly word. It's
there, simply get on with life. In a public school, and I'm sure in
some homes, ADD can be used as a negative thing. It can be used as an
excuse, as said before, it can have a devastatingly squashing effect
(not allowing who that person is to be fully appreciated and
actualized among a myriad of other things). It doesn't have to be
that way. It can be a spring board into greatness. The "dark side"
of ADD can in reality be the best part of all, can be that person's
greatest strength. It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life.
Michelle H
I will however, glady discuss the issues surrounding ADD and
unschooling. And you're right, it really doesn't matter whether you
believe in it or not, you still need to develop coping skills to deal
with it. We believe the label "ADD" is only a problem in public
school, or at home if you let it be. My dh has adult onset diabetes,
it explains why he gets sweaty when he eats too many Krispy Kremes.
Gunnar has ADD, it explains why he can't read for an extended period
of time. My dh's life is not wrapped up in being "Diabetic" any more
than my son's is wrapped up in being "ADD". That is not all they
are, it is a part of who they are. ADD is not an ugly word. It's
there, simply get on with life. In a public school, and I'm sure in
some homes, ADD can be used as a negative thing. It can be used as an
excuse, as said before, it can have a devastatingly squashing effect
(not allowing who that person is to be fully appreciated and
actualized among a myriad of other things). It doesn't have to be
that way. It can be a spring board into greatness. The "dark side"
of ADD can in reality be the best part of all, can be that person's
greatest strength. It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life.
Michelle H
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/29/02 3:52:25 PM, mvhunt1@b... writes:
>
> << I'm done on this topic, I could go on all day. I should never
have
> started. The discussion of the reality (or not) of ADD belongs on
> another message board. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
> >>
>
> Why should such things not be discussed in a group of parents who
are dealing
> with issues of how children learn, and the damage that schools and
testing
> and labelling can do to children?
>
> It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees, because outside of the
three or
> four who are discussing it are several hundred who are reading and
thinking.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/02 6:55:37 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life. >>
I don't think anyone suggested denying any part of him. I believe the
suggestion is that possibly one day, you won't feel it's necessary to use
that label at all.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life. >>
I don't think anyone suggested denying any part of him. I believe the
suggestion is that possibly one day, you won't feel it's necessary to use
that label at all.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/02 5:45:50 AM, mvhunt1@... writes:
<< The "dark side"
of ADD can in reality be the best part of all, can be that person's
greatest strength. It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life.
People with personal experience at the negatives of having grown up with
labels are suggesting gently that you might want to lose the label.
And whether one person wants to debate this or not (and saying you don't want
to isn't the same as not debating), there are several hundred people here who
are undecided or unsure, and the discussion has merit.
If you're really sure of your position, why wouldn't you want to prove it to
us?
Sandra
<< The "dark side"
of ADD can in reality be the best part of all, can be that person's
greatest strength. It's PART of the tools and talents that person is
born with. I will not deny that part of my sons life.
>>You're preaching to a choir with a large ADD section.
People with personal experience at the negatives of having grown up with
labels are suggesting gently that you might want to lose the label.
And whether one person wants to debate this or not (and saying you don't want
to isn't the same as not debating), there are several hundred people here who
are undecided or unsure, and the discussion has merit.
If you're really sure of your position, why wouldn't you want to prove it to
us?
Sandra
michelle_3kds
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
them a lifetime of grief.
"Again, what I said was I will not debate whether ADD exists or not.
I will however, gladly discuss the issues surrounding ADD and
unschooling."
I guess I don't feel like "proving" it because I've already been
there, done that on an attention deficit message board. This is an
unschooling message board. Discussing the use of labels, how an
attention-deficit type person learns, these are the types of issues
I'm concerned with now. Now that I'm thinking about it,what I'd
REALLY like to know is if there are any adult ADD unschoolers out
there and how they're doing. I'd like to find out how any adult
unschoolers are doing. I'll ask that by posting another question
about it.
For those of you out there that may be interested in the veracity of
ADD, here are a couple of URL's to get you started on making your own
decision.
alt.support.attn-deficit (a Google Group)- a lot of people here with
varying opinions
http://www.quackwatch.com/
Michelle H
>with
>
> People with personal experience at the negatives of having grown up
> labels are suggesting gently that you might want to lose the label.There are just as many people that wish they had that label to save
them a lifetime of grief.
>don't want
> And whether one person wants to debate this or not (and saying you
> to isn't the same as not debating), there are several hundredpeople here who
> are undecided or unsure, and the discussion has merit.prove it to
>
> If you're really sure of your position, why wouldn't you want to
> us?I repeat:
>
> Sandra
"Again, what I said was I will not debate whether ADD exists or not.
I will however, gladly discuss the issues surrounding ADD and
unschooling."
I guess I don't feel like "proving" it because I've already been
there, done that on an attention deficit message board. This is an
unschooling message board. Discussing the use of labels, how an
attention-deficit type person learns, these are the types of issues
I'm concerned with now. Now that I'm thinking about it,what I'd
REALLY like to know is if there are any adult ADD unschoolers out
there and how they're doing. I'd like to find out how any adult
unschoolers are doing. I'll ask that by posting another question
about it.
For those of you out there that may be interested in the veracity of
ADD, here are a couple of URL's to get you started on making your own
decision.
alt.support.attn-deficit (a Google Group)- a lot of people here with
varying opinions
http://www.quackwatch.com/
Michelle H
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/02 9:01:03 AM, mvhunt1@... writes:
<< There are just as many people that wish they had that label to save
them a lifetime of grief. >>
Labels do not save grief.
Knowledge can save grief, and now that you have the knowledge, what good does
it do to use it to define your child? What benefit is there in his wearing
that "diagnosis" for life?
There are NOT "just as many people" who wish they were labelled "disabled."
Even a label of "giftedness" does lifelong damage.
Yes, knowledge of dyslexia 80 years ago would have saved a whole lot of grief
and stupid school policy. But if someone is dyslexic, the goal of the
parents is to be more patient with his learning to read, not to remind him
regularly "Well, you're dysLEXic, and so your whole life will be different."
My dad was a lefty forced to use his right hand in school in the 1930's, and
he had a VERY hard time reading and writing in his whole life. It's too bad
he wasn't aware that he wasn't the only one, and that it was NOT laziness or
being a bad, uncooperative boy.
But his name was Kirby Adams, not "a dyslexic man." He was Kirby Adams who
had a good job and worked hard and was honest and generous and funny, not
"Kirby Adams who is dyslexic."
My middle child has some symptoms of dyslexia, but instead of me teaching him
that term or discussing it, I have told him LOTS of people read late, and
it's not easy for everyone to know which way a three goes, and that he WILL
pick it up but just later, and in the meantime there are hundreds of things
he CAN do as well or better than others. Puzzles. Sports. Putting things
together and keeping them operational. He knows his physical skills and his
logic surpassnmanship practice book. Many parents might have done that
instead, or told him he could have new bearings if he did a page of numbers
or something.
He is Martin Dodd. He is not a dyslexic boy. He will do fine, and he will
do better without being branded.
When kids have short attention spans, I don't give them hour-long projects!
When kids have the ability to focus almost entirely on one thing for two
days, stopping MAYBE to eat and sleep, then I get out of their way, bring
them some food and let them have the freedom to be who they are instead of
stopping their lives to tell them they have a set of biochemical realities
which would be labelled thus'n'such at school, and that it's not REALLY a
disability, but can be an advantage.
Those whose kids haven't been in school at all DO have an headstart in the
realm of unschooling progress.
Those whose kids have been in school will begin to make the same sort of
progress at some point AFTER the family sets aside all the school
expectations, schedules, terminology, resentments, confusions, training,
aversions, etc.
Those who want unschooling to work as well as it can and who are willing to
get the school, its ghosts, and its invisible structure out of their homes
and away from their kids will understand unschooling better and live with
more interpersonal benefit than those who save SOME school stuff or who hope
for unschooling to operate over a faint school-grid which still exists in
their minds.
Sandra
<< There are just as many people that wish they had that label to save
them a lifetime of grief. >>
Labels do not save grief.
Knowledge can save grief, and now that you have the knowledge, what good does
it do to use it to define your child? What benefit is there in his wearing
that "diagnosis" for life?
There are NOT "just as many people" who wish they were labelled "disabled."
Even a label of "giftedness" does lifelong damage.
Yes, knowledge of dyslexia 80 years ago would have saved a whole lot of grief
and stupid school policy. But if someone is dyslexic, the goal of the
parents is to be more patient with his learning to read, not to remind him
regularly "Well, you're dysLEXic, and so your whole life will be different."
My dad was a lefty forced to use his right hand in school in the 1930's, and
he had a VERY hard time reading and writing in his whole life. It's too bad
he wasn't aware that he wasn't the only one, and that it was NOT laziness or
being a bad, uncooperative boy.
But his name was Kirby Adams, not "a dyslexic man." He was Kirby Adams who
had a good job and worked hard and was honest and generous and funny, not
"Kirby Adams who is dyslexic."
My middle child has some symptoms of dyslexia, but instead of me teaching him
that term or discussing it, I have told him LOTS of people read late, and
it's not easy for everyone to know which way a three goes, and that he WILL
pick it up but just later, and in the meantime there are hundreds of things
he CAN do as well or better than others. Puzzles. Sports. Putting things
together and keeping them operational. He knows his physical skills and his
logic surpassnmanship practice book. Many parents might have done that
instead, or told him he could have new bearings if he did a page of numbers
or something.
He is Martin Dodd. He is not a dyslexic boy. He will do fine, and he will
do better without being branded.
When kids have short attention spans, I don't give them hour-long projects!
When kids have the ability to focus almost entirely on one thing for two
days, stopping MAYBE to eat and sleep, then I get out of their way, bring
them some food and let them have the freedom to be who they are instead of
stopping their lives to tell them they have a set of biochemical realities
which would be labelled thus'n'such at school, and that it's not REALLY a
disability, but can be an advantage.
Those whose kids haven't been in school at all DO have an headstart in the
realm of unschooling progress.
Those whose kids have been in school will begin to make the same sort of
progress at some point AFTER the family sets aside all the school
expectations, schedules, terminology, resentments, confusions, training,
aversions, etc.
Those who want unschooling to work as well as it can and who are willing to
get the school, its ghosts, and its invisible structure out of their homes
and away from their kids will understand unschooling better and live with
more interpersonal benefit than those who save SOME school stuff or who hope
for unschooling to operate over a faint school-grid which still exists in
their minds.
Sandra