Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
> attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
> without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
> an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
> books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and
>
I truely believe that any child will thrive without school,
possibly even more so children like yours who are often bored.
You may find that he has more attention span than you think once he's
doing what he really enjoys. My son has no desire to pay attention
to things that don't interest him. As far as math books and brain
teasers. We have used these types of things. Unschooling doesn't
mean that you can't use anything, even text books. Anything can be a
resource. The difference is that the child can decide what to use,
when and how much.

Since your son has been in school, he'll probably need what we call
deschooling time - time to recover from school and get used to what
"unschooling" is for your family. When we first took my son out of
school at 10, he worried that he wasn't doing enough, that he needed
to take spelling tests, etc. I had to work to convince him at the
same time I was reassuring myself that this would work. Now at 13,
he never needs reassurance, but sometimes I still do. Sometimes,
when deschooling, parents become concerned about the amount of tv
watched, video games played, and the amount of time spent doing what
appears to be nothing. It passes. Be patient, and he'll find his
way back to a genuine love of learning.

Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

Susan Wilkins-Hubley

Hi there,

I've been on this list for about a month or so, and when I can, I read the
posts with great interest. I am a newbie at the whole
"unschooling-homeschooling" thing. I am a mom/stepmom to four children in
total and have a son who is 8 and who has been labeled by the schools as
"gifted". He was in public school until last June. Last April I decided
that year would be his last in formal school. I decided this because I
found that the school and the teachers did not understand my son the way I
do, it was just a matter of his learning style and whether it fit into the
way they did things. Well it didn't - so here I am :)

My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and
encourage him as long as he is happy, but I am worried that he will become
bored without the chaos of the school environment..... should this be a
concern? Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to having him home and
educating him at home, and I do think it is best for him, but I guess I'm
just concerned hypothetically (again) :)

Any thoughts are most appreciated !

Warmest Regards,
Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/99 6:41:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, swclub@...
writes:

<< My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
without school? >>

I don't thing there is a *type* that thrives without school. Any child will
thrive without school. Don't let that short attention span fool you. A busy
child thinks constantly. And you can't know WHAT they are thinking about. I
don't know how many times I'm had the kids running all over the house while I
was reading or doing something. Knowing absoluteley they were not paying
attention. Only later to have them come up and discuss the entire plot of
the book.

Are you doing the all natural, I think I'll panic for awhile? I do, and I've
been at this for a few years. It's normal, and I'd say healthy.... You'll
be fine.. And so will that little guy.

Charlotte

Joel Hawthorne

The world contains more than enough chaos to provide stimulation. The chaos of
schools is contrived at best. Sadly a lot of that chaos is the result of
unhappy interactions of kids who are little better than prisoners.....taking out
their frustration on those weaker than themselves.

And remember, home extends beyond walls, right out the door, into the
fascinating, exciting, totally engaging world.

Susan Wilkins-Hubley wrote:

> From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
> Hi there,
>
> I've been on this list for about a month or so, and when I can, I read the
> posts with great interest. I am a newbie at the whole
> "unschooling-homeschooling" thing. I am a mom/stepmom to four children in
> total and have a son who is 8 and who has been labeled by the schools as
> "gifted". He was in public school until last June. Last April I decided
> that year would be his last in formal school. I decided this because I
> found that the school and the teachers did not understand my son the way I
> do, it was just a matter of his learning style and whether it fit into the
> way they did things. Well it didn't - so here I am :)
>
> My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
> attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
> without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
> an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
> books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and
> encourage him as long as he is happy, but I am worried that he will become
> bored without the chaos of the school environment..... should this be a
> concern? Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to having him home and
> educating him at home, and I do think it is best for him, but I guess I'm
> just concerned hypothetically (again) :)
>
> Any thoughts are most appreciated !
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
> The Second Wives Club

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

Sandi Chelan

>From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
...........>My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely
NO
>attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
>without school? ...I am worried that he will become
>bored without the chaos of the school environment.....

Welcome to the list, Susan! In my experience, a child like this can thrive
as an unschooler. Boredom is great! They figure out how to create their
own chaos! The attention span issue may resolve itself when he has the time
to devote to activities of his own choosing. I think the short attention
span also signifies a passion for covering a lot of ground. They are making
amazing connections even while it seems their attention is merely cursory.
While this can look like a lack of focus, it is actually a matter of paying
attention to something else. After unschooling for 1 1/2 years, our 8yo dd
is thriving. Good luck!
Sandi

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/99 1:41:29 PM !!!First Boot!!!, swclub@... writes:

<< My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and
encourage him as long as he is happy, but I am worried that he will become
bored without the chaos of the school environment..... should this be a
concern? Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to having him home and
educating him at home, and I do think it is best for him, but I guess I'm
just concerned hypothetically (again) :) >>


Sounds like my son in a lot of ways -- what works here (so far -- he's only
6): We read and play computer games and do puzzles and mazes and math type
games and real math workbooks and flashcards and go outside and bird watch
and read about lizards and and and and -- but it's not on any time table --
it's as things come up -- on demand, just like food. The kitchen's a mess
and so is my living room most of the time but we do a lot and have "school
work" input when desired and just figure things out ourselves when desired.
And I personally think that, if you haven't been taught to hate workbooks and
text books, they can be enjoyed just as well as any other source of info.
But with a 6-year-old's attention span and a 9-year-old's reading
comprehension and an 8-year-old's computation ability but a 10-year-old's
grasp of math concepts and all of this changing constantly, I think you kind
of have to go with the flow.

I think one of the things I like about unschooling, is that there seems to be
a great tolerance for just doing what works. Some people seem to be more or
less un, but I think we all just want to do the best we can.

Good luck.

Nance

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/99 8:41:39 AM EST, swclub@... writes:

<< s a child who has absolutely NO
attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and >>
Susan,
Hi and welcome!
My youngest ds sounds a lot like yours! LOL, He would be labeled and sorted
so fast your head would spin, but, he is so smart! He is what I call a
parallel learner, he taught himself to read, by listening to me teach his
older brother, while he played. Today, he is still learning by taking
things in while playing with his toys. His imagination is extraordinary, and
he can remember every line of every cartoon and movie he has ever seen.
Also, all his favorite characters in the Narnia chronicles. He has to be
kept busy and we do that with sports, music and make believe. Anyway, what
we do is not so important, its just that I wanted to tell you that yes, you
can do just fine at home. Also, there is a great book by Cynthia Tobias,
called "The Way They Learn" She is so funny, and the book is too. You would
really like it and get some insight into our different learners! LOL.
Teresa

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/99 10:22:11 AM EST, jagwirtz@... writes:

<< Sometimes,
when deschooling, parents become concerned about the amount of TV
watched, video games played, and the amount of time spent doing what
appears to be nothing. It passes. Be patient, and he'll find his
way back to a genuine love of learning. >>
Good grief!, I find I am being so talkative today!
I wanted to thank you for your post. I have been hsing for going on 6 years
now, and have gone from school at home, to I don't know what, now. It is
indeed hard to not to be concerned when all they want to do is play. My guys
didn't go to public school, except for preschool for the oldest, 1 year. But
I am trying to deschool from the strict homeschool schedule. Myself
included! I don't know if we are having much luck at it. We have been doing
this all summer and they still only want to play! One bright spot, I bought
the two Harry Potter books and read them one chapter a night. My oldest
would wait till I left the room and then read the next chapter himself, cause
he couldn't wait. So, I know that if I can find the things they want to
read, they will!! LOL.
thanks again,
Teresa

Susan Wilkins-Hubley

Thank you to everyone! I feel "understood" and that means a lot to me. I
have no one to really bounce situations, concerns or questions from, so this
list will come in very handy indeed!

I also work from home and was/is concerned that I wouldn't be there enough
for him emotionally/intellectually at all the right times.. etc... but
perhaps I should not fret. (?)

You are right he certainly does create his very own chaos (enough for both
of us). I am quite disenchanted with the way "school" works, the things
that go on etc... My son was in a very small, community oriented school.
The average Joe would consider it heaven for their child but my son just did
not think "within the box" so to speak and it frustrated his teachers
terribly. He can do academic work three grades ahead but they would not
allow him the challenge because he wouldn't complete his grade 2 work on
time if at all - he was bored with it - so on went a vicious circle....

Anyway, I'm rambling, and I thank you for all of the insightful feedback,
I've saved it and will re-read them again for reassurance :)


Warmest Regards,
Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!

Joel Hawthorne

Play is learning! Drawing the line between learning and play is totally
arbitrary. Learning that you can direct your own learning, determine your own
interests, and learn what you decide you need to know are the important lessons.
Content is not the most important unschooling "lessons". All of this occurring
in a loving supportive family are what it is all about in my eyes.

Hsmotgo@... wrote:

> From: Hsmotgo@...
>
> In a message dated 8/6/99 10:22:11 AM EST, jagwirtz@... writes:
>
> << Sometimes,
> when deschooling, parents become concerned about the amount of TV
> watched, video games played, and the amount of time spent doing what
> appears to be nothing. It passes. Be patient, and he'll find his
> way back to a genuine love of learning. >>
> Good grief!, I find I am being so talkative today!
> I wanted to thank you for your post. I have been hsing for going on 6 years
> now, and have gone from school at home, to I don't know what, now. It is
> indeed hard to not to be concerned when all they want to do is play. My guys
> didn't go to public school, except for preschool for the oldest, 1 year. But
> I am trying to deschool from the strict homeschool schedule. Myself
> included! I don't know if we are having much luck at it. We have been doing
> this all summer and they still only want to play! One bright spot, I bought
> the two Harry Potter books and read them one chapter a night. My oldest
> would wait till I left the room and then read the next chapter himself, cause
> he couldn't wait. So, I know that if I can find the things they want to
> read, they will!! LOL.
> thanks again,
> Teresa
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Show your ONElist SPIRIT!
> http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html
> With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

--
best wishes
Joel

All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/

Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e. restorative
justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org

Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> I wanted to thank you for your post. I have been hsing for going on 6 years
> now, and have gone from school at home, to I don't know what, now. It is
> indeed hard to not to be concerned when all they want to do is play. My guys
> didn't go to public school, except for preschool for the oldest, 1 year. But
> I am trying to deschool from the strict homeschool schedule. Myself
> included! I don't know if we are having much luck at it. We have been doing
> this all summer and they still only want to play! One bright spot, I bought
> the two Harry Potter books and read them one chapter a night. My oldest
> would wait till I left the room and then read the next chapter himself, cause
> he couldn't wait. So, I know that if I can find the things they want to
> read, they will!! LOL.
>
It varies from child to child, but I've heard it said that it takes
1 month of deschooling for every month in school, or in your case -
school at home. It took my kids quite a while. My 13 year old still
spends a lot of time playing, but from other homeschoolers, I've
learned that it's quite common at this age. Their bodies are
changing so fast, hormones are running rampant - sometimes it's all
they can do to just exist. A long time unschooler told me that this
is one of the reasons middle schools don't introduce new information
at this age. I think you're on the right track. I often show
interest in something in front of my son, or just leave things I
think he might be interested in laying around. I know of one
unschooler that puts interesting posters and reading material in the
bathroom. Whatever works is our motto......

Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

Lisa Fuller

I just wanted to add another resource for people with "active" learners. Howard
Gardner wrote several books about different intelligences and how the different
intelligences learn. It is slowly making its way through the ps system and
hopefully things will change, but his books are interesting to read. According to
his theory, it sounds like your children are kinesthetic learners, they have to
be physically active in order to absorb information and learn. He lays out 7
total intelligences and they make sense. I think that even 7 is too limiting;)
but at least it is a start.

Lisa F.

Hsmotgo@... wrote:

> From: Hsmotgo@...
>
> In a message dated 8/6/99 8:41:39 AM EST, swclub@... writes:
>
> << s a child who has absolutely NO
> attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
> without school? I'm thinking that this child is the one who will do well as
> an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would LIKE to work in some math
> books and some brain teasing work books - so I think I will let him, and >>
> Susan,
> Hi and welcome!
> My youngest ds sounds a lot like yours! LOL, He would be labeled and sorted
> so fast your head would spin, but, he is so smart! He is what I call a
> parallel learner, he taught himself to read, by listening to me teach his
> older brother, while he played. Today, he is still learning by taking
> things in while playing with his toys. His imagination is extraordinary, and
> he can remember every line of every cartoon and movie he has ever seen.
> Also, all his favorite characters in the Narnia chronicles. He has to be
> kept busy and we do that with sports, music and make believe. Anyway, what
> we do is not so important, its just that I wanted to tell you that yes, you
> can do just fine at home. Also, there is a great book by Cynthia Tobias,
> called "The Way They Learn" She is so funny, and the book is too. You would
> really like it and get some insight into our different learners! LOL.
> Teresa
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,
> programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
> <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com

Sessuale

Hi Sandi! Sessuale here :)

Just a quick thought. I'm a vet unschooler but new to this list and I have been experiencing a little chaos of my own (computer chaos that is). At any rate, this is my first op to speak up. I just wanted to say that I couldn't agree with you more. In fact your sentiments reminded me of a wonderful book:
Dumbing Us Down.

Susan if you read nothing else this summer, read this. It made me really stop and think. It strengthened my resolve and made me proud of my choices and remember I'm a former homeschooler myself!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandi Chelan [SMTP:S-Chelan@...]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 12:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I'm new here

From: "Sandi Chelan" <S-Chelan@...>




>From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
..........>My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely
NO
>attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
>without school? ...I am worried that he will become
>bored without the chaos of the school environment.....

Welcome to the list, Susan! In my experience, a child like this can thrive
as an unschooler. Boredom is great! They figure out how to create their
own chaos! The attention span issue may resolve itself when he has the time
to devote to activities of his own choosing. I think the short attention
span also signifies a passion for covering a lot of ground. They are making
amazing connections even while it seems their attention is merely cursory.
While this can look like a lack of focus, it is actually a matter of paying
attention to something else. After unschooling for 1 1/2 years, our 8yo dd
is thriving. Good luck!
Sandi





--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com.
Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how.
For details, go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com

Susan Wilkins-Hubley

Thank you, I think I will see if that book is in our library. :) I heard a
lot about it but no really great testimonials. Thanks for the resource!





Warmest Regards,
Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!
S T E P M O M S --> Check out the "Back To Sanity" Contest
http://www.secondwivesclub.com/contest.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: Sessuale <primo@...>
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, August 07, 1999 12:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] I'm new here


Hi Sandi! Sessuale here :)

Just a quick thought. I'm a vet unschooler but new to this list and I have
been experiencing a little chaos of my own (computer chaos that is). At any
rate, this is my first op to speak up. I just wanted to say that I couldn't
agree with you more. In fact your sentiments reminded me of a wonderful
book:
Dumbing Us Down.

Susan if you read nothing else this summer, read this. It made me really
stop and think. It strengthened my resolve and made me proud of my choices
and remember I'm a former homeschooler myself!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandi Chelan [SMTP:S-Chelan@...]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 12:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I'm new here

From: "Sandi Chelan" <S-Chelan@...>




>From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
.........>My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely
NO
>attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who thrives
>without school? ...I am worried that he will become
>bored without the chaos of the school environment.....

Welcome to the list, Susan! In my experience, a child like this can thrive
as an unschooler. Boredom is great! They figure out how to create their
own chaos! The attention span issue may resolve itself when he has the time
to devote to activities of his own choosing. I think the short attention
span also signifies a passion for covering a lot of ground. They are making
amazing connections even while it seems their attention is merely cursory.
While this can look like a lack of focus, it is actually a matter of paying
attention to something else. After unschooling for 1 1/2 years, our 8yo dd
is thriving. Good luck!
Sandi





--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com.
Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how.
For details, go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it out!
http://www.unschooling.com

Michele Moss

> From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
> Hi Susan!
>
I decided this because I found that the school and the
> teachers did not understand my son the way I do, it was just a
> matter of his learning style and whether it fit into the way they
> did things. Well it didn't - so here I am :)

My son turned 3 in May and this is one of the same reasons that
keeps shouting "homeschool/unschool" to me. He is very bright and high
in energy with a learning style that is not typically accomodated by
the majority of schools.
>
> My question to any of you is..... is a child who has absolutely NO
> attention span and who is conversely brilliant - the child who
> thrives without school?

My personal opinion would be absolutely yes. first of all, if he
brilliant, he probably doesn't need an attention span of more than a
few seconds to learn something new. he's probably also intelligent
enough to realize that "okay, i've learned this, no point in wasting
time dwelling on it, time to go learn something else!" you can go
with that flow while the schools are going to expect him to sit
tolerantly while they teach the rest of the students. and i'm
curious... who's opinion is it that he has NO attention span?
Sterling would appear to also have NO attention span "most" of the
time when in actuality he has a very "multi-tasking" type attention
span. just because it appears to me that he isn't paying attention
to what i am expecting that he should be paying attention to at that
very instant, doesn't mean he isn't paying attention. He
usually has several things going on in that busy little mind. He'll
come back several hours later after he's had a chance to absorb and
ponder something i was trying to do with him and start asking all
sorts of questions or he might say/do something related that makes me
realize he certainly was paying very close attention - and probably
was thoughfully engaged for quite some time!

I'm thinking that this child is the one who
> will do well as an unschooler, but he has mentioned that he would
> LIKE to work in some math books and some brain teasing work books -
> so I think I will let him, and encourage him as long as he is happy,

With Sterling only 3 yo, learning about "unschooling" just made me
realize the name for what i had been doing all along. doing, doing,
doing... following his cues and giving him the resources to be more
involved in those things that he showed an obvious interest in.
Those resources range from going to places to see and do more on the
subject, interrelating it with our every day activities in and around
the house, the internet (some really great sites out there!), his own
computer software, videos, educational TV, music, storybooks and
yes.... workbooks and puzzle books.
To Sterling it's all part of the fun of playing and "things to do"
rather than "school". and toys? oh yes... LOTS! but toys that have
multiple educational/developmental value. mindless toys don't
hold his interest for very long. i mentioned the appearance of NO
attention span "most" of the time... so i also have to mention that
there are times when he gets very obviously focused in learning. He
will get lost in a jigsaw puzzle, lego's, and some types of books
(mazes, dot-to-dot, etc) and other learning. he's very intense so
when he does get involved with something that challenges him and that
he likes, he can get locked in for quite some time. We recently did
a science volcano project. he thought it was so cool that we had to
make it erupt over and over and over and over (like the energizer
bunny, he didn't want to quit or do anything else most of the day!).
he even decided we had to build a town around it for the dinosaurs.
and THEN he decided the dinosaurs would die with no water so we had
to add a pond by putting blue colored water into a deep jar cover and
burying it in sand up to the rim. How does he know these things is
what i would like to know!!

> but I am worried that he will become bored without the chaos of the
> school environment..... should this be a concern?

i saw a couple other posts mention that he would find his own
chaos. i think that is so true. given a little guidance to
encourage his creativity, believe me... he WILL create his own
constructive chaos. our family is always in a state of chaos.
between all the "work-in-progress" playing that Sterling dreams up
and spread throughout the house, special projects, this and that,
external activities, crammed schedules, etc, etc, etc, there's plenty
of chaos.

Don't get me
> wrong, I'm committed to having him home and educating him at home,
> and I do think it is best for him, but I guess I'm just concerned
> hypothetically (again) :)
>
> Any thoughts are most appreciated !
>
hope some of this helps... sorry it got so long. btw, if your son
likes puzzle and brain teasers books, has he ever gotten the
"hilights puzzelmania" books? i didn't even know Hilights
published puzzle books until recently.



Michele Moss
Mom of Sterling Tyler age 3 yrs old
Parents of Spirited Kids Resource Web site:
http://www.icstech.net/~michele
Parents of Spirited Kids Discussion Group:
http://www.egroups.com/list/psk

Susan Wilkins-Hubley

> hope some of this helps... sorry it got so long. btw, if your son
>likes puzzle and brain teasers books, has he ever gotten the
>"hilights puzzelmania" books? i didn't even know Hilights
>published puzzle books until recently.

No... he doesn't have any of those..... can you buy them or see them
online? (We're not in the city for easy shopping).. they sound interesting.
My instincts tell me to get him these things but there are times when I
wonder if they teach them anything? If "toyland" has me convinced they are
just for fun rather than good for the child's mind. I hate going against my
own instincts, and I guess that's why I am here.. struggling with my
instincts that tell me to just let him "be".



Warmest Regards,
Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!
S T E P M O M S --> Check out the "Back To Sanity" Contest
http://www.secondwivesclub.com/contest.htm
1-877-STEPMUM

Diana Asberry

Wowser! We get them too. They are conveniently delivered to our mailbox
each month--like a book club subscription.

Call 1-800-962-3661 to subscribe.

Diana A.
"the world is our classroom"


----Original Message Follows----
hope some of this helps... sorry it got so long. btw, if your son
>likes puzzle and brain teasers books, has he ever gotten the
>"hilights puzzelmania" books? i didn't even know Hilights
>published puzzle books until recently.

No... he doesn't have any of those..... can you buy them or see them
online? (We're not in the city for easy shopping).. they sound interesting.

Warmest Regards,
Susan

Lisa Fuller

If "toyland" has me convinced they are
just for fun rather than good for the child's mind.

I had to respond to this!! Fun is good for the child's mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

All toys are *educational*, and so is everything else in the world. That is my
basic unschooling philosophy. Toys (as with everything else) are more or less
complex. For example, the little battery operated toy that makes sounds and
lights up is simple, you can only do one thing with it -- push the button and
watch it light up. Although my 2 yog is bored by it (she's figured it out
already) my 5 mos old thinks its the best thing in the world. He's bored by the
more complex toys (i.e. a dish set or toilet paper tubes) because he can't play
complexly yet. Although the battery operated toy drives me nuts (grandma gift :)
it still has value. It is teaching my son that his movements (and very specific
movements at that) cause extrordinary things to happen. Play at every age is
vitally important. Just think, if your kids thought of life and learning as play
then everything would be fun, from cleaning the house to going to work to
scrubbing the toilet (my dd thinks this is the most fun, she wears fun gloves
and since we use baking soda and vinegar to clean everything she can "play" in
the toilet as long as she wants -- its amazing how clean she gets it!)

So even if something appears to be for playing, look beyond and see what the
kids are actually doing when they play. If you need help, read something on
child development (not what kids are supposed to be doing, but what skills kids
are capable of doing or are concentrating on like fine motor skills in
toddlerhood, or emotional self-regulation in the preschool years) A good author
to read Gonzalez-Mena, but there are many others out there.

Enjoy!

Lisa

Susan Wilkins-Hubley wrote:

> From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
> > hope some of this helps... sorry it got so long. btw, if your son
> >likes puzzle and brain teasers books, has he ever gotten the
> >"hilights puzzelmania" books? i didn't even know Hilights
> >published puzzle books until recently.
>
> No... he doesn't have any of those..... can you buy them or see them
> online? (We're not in the city for easy shopping).. they sound interesting.
> My instincts tell me to get him these things but there are times when I
> wonder if they teach them anything? I hate going against my
> own instincts, and I guess that's why I am here.. struggling with my
> instincts that tell me to just let him "be".
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
> The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
> mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
> Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!
> S T E P M O M S --> Check out the "Back To Sanity" Contest
> http://www.secondwivesclub.com/contest.htm
> 1-877-STEPMUM
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> http://www.unschooling.com

Michele Moss

> From: "Diana Asberry" <diasberry@...>
>
> Wowser! We get them too. They are conveniently delivered to our
> mailbox each month--like a book club subscription.
>
> Call 1-800-962-3661 to subscribe.
>
Hi Diana! thanks for posting this for everyone. It doesn't appear
that they have a website which really surprises me. How long have
you been getting them and how old are your kids that use them? I was
hesitant to get them for Sterling since he's only 3 yo but figured i
can always cancel if there wasn't enough for his skill level yet.
He's always liked finding hidden pictures. we've gotten the "I spy"
series from the library a few times so figured he'd like the
highlights hidden pictures. i found there is quite a nice mix of
things he can do as well as many that are far too advanced for him
yet. but that's okay, the challenge is there when he is ready and he
has already shocked me with some that i expected him to ignore...
like the "find-a-word".

He's only gotten the first shipment but we've had lots of fun.
it's one of those things we do together, relaxing on the soft,
when we need some quiet time. and he's learning so much from them!

Michele Moss
Infinity Computer Solutions
Great Falls, MT
406-727-5609
http://www.icstech.net

Michele Moss

> From: "Susan Wilkins-Hubley" <swclub@...>
>
My instincts tell me to get him these things but there
> are times when I wonder if they teach them anything? If "toyland"
> has me convinced they are just for fun rather than good for the
> child's mind. I hate going against my own instincts, and I guess
> that's why I am here.. struggling with my instincts that tell me to
> just let him "be".
>
i think there are a lot of bad toys out there. they may teach but
are they teaching what we want them to teach? on the other hand,
toys have progressed to a new level that are educational while having
fun as are some of the good old classic toys. I evaluate every toy
that comes into our house carefully. We don't have a lot of extra
money for toys so i want to make sure i choose wisely.

when it comes to puzzles, many kids find them fun and depending on
the type of puzzle i think they are very educational and cover a wide
range of skills from logic, reasoning, problem solving, math,
observation, memory, etc.

I saw a rand-mcnally 100 piece jigsaw puzzle a couple of weeks ago
at a thrift store for $.50. it was the United States on one side and
world map on the other side. the pieces were cut out in the shape of
each US state. i bought it with the idea of putting it away for
Sterling for later. It didn't get that far. he saw it in the bag
when i got home and wanted to make it! We made it together that
evening. what better way for a child to learn his geography and have
fun doing it?


Michele Moss
Mom of Sterling Tyler age 3 yrs old
Parents of Spirited Kids Resource Web site:
http://www.icstech.net/~michele
Parents of Spirited Kids Discussion Group:
http://www.egroups.com/list/psk

Susan Wilkins-Hubley

Thank you, I guess I have been conditioned to think that "playing is bad"
and is not part of learning, but when I think about it I know damn well that
is not the case! (brain fart!)

This is exactly when he thrives and learns best. But put him in a "school"
situation and they think he is lazy... unmotivated etc. This has affected
his self esteem and so I'm trying to help him to get it back, slowly but
surely.

I guess I need lots of people like you parents, standing around me nodding
in approval a lot :)

Warmest Regards,
Susan Wilkins-Hubley - Founder
The Second Wives Club - http://www.secondwivesclub.com
mailto:susan@... or mailto:swclub@...
Making Second Wives Our First Priority Since 1997!
S T E P M O M S --> Check out the "Back To Sanity" Contest
http://www.secondwivesclub.com/contest.htm
1-877-STEPMUM



-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Fuller <eifuller@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I'm new here


>From: Lisa Fuller <eifuller@...>


>.... Just think, if your kids thought of life and learning as play
>then everything would be fun, from cleaning the house to going to work to
>scrubbing the toilet (my dd thinks this is the most fun, she wears fun
gloves
>and since we use baking soda and vinegar to clean everything she can "play"
in
>the toilet as long as she wants -- its amazing how clean she gets it!)

David Albert

Sessuale wrote:

> Hi Sandi! Sessuale here :)
>
> Just a quick thought. I'm a vet unschooler but new to this list and I
> have been experiencing a little chaos of my own (computer chaos that
> is). At any rate, this is my first op to speak up. I just wanted to
> say that I couldn't agree with you more. In fact your sentiments
> reminded me of a wonderful book:
> Dumbing Us Down.
>
> Susan if you read nothing else this summer, read this. It made me
> really stop and think. It strengthened my resolve and made me proud
> of my choices and remember I'm a former homeschooler myself!

Dear Sessuale -

It does my heart proud that you liked Gatto's book. I was the editor
and publisher (I'm the one with the note in the front), and I think the
book is even better today than when it came out.

In about six weeks, my own book on our homeschooling experiences will be
out (published by New Society Publishers/Holt Associates) -- it was
interesting to homeschool being very conscious in advance of Gatto's
critiques, so I hope it will be seen as building on his work. The book
will be called "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" (I finished the proofing
this weekend.) Chapters will appear on my website:
www.skylarksings.com (which won't be up until September 5 or so.)

David Albert

Sandi Chelan

Sessuale and David!
Gatto's book saved my sanity when we were deciding to homeschool. There was
so much nonsense going on that his critique was something of a beacon in a
stormy sea!

I just placed a library hold on The Exhausted School. I look forward to
reading your book, David.
Sandi

-----Original Message-----
From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I'm new here


>From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
>
>Sessuale wrote:
>
>> Hi Sandi! Sessuale here :)
>>
>> Just a quick thought. I'm a vet unschooler but new to this list and I
>> have been experiencing a little chaos of my own (computer chaos that
>> is). At any rate, this is my first op to speak up. I just wanted to
>> say that I couldn't agree with you more. In fact your sentiments
>> reminded me of a wonderful book:
>> Dumbing Us Down.
>>
>> Susan if you read nothing else this summer, read this. It made me
>> really stop and think. It strengthened my resolve and made me proud
>> of my choices and remember I'm a former homeschooler myself!
>
>Dear Sessuale -
>
>It does my heart proud that you liked Gatto's book. I was the editor
>and publisher (I'm the one with the note in the front), and I think the
>book is even better today than when it came out.
>
>In about six weeks, my own book on our homeschooling experiences will be
>out (published by New Society Publishers/Holt Associates) -- it was
>interesting to homeschool being very conscious in advance of Gatto's
>critiques, so I hope it will be seen as building on his work. The book
>will be called "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
>Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" (I finished the proofing
>this weekend.) Chapters will appear on my website:
>www.skylarksings.com (which won't be up until September 5 or so.)
>
>David Albert
>
>
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Jill

>. I hate going against my
own instincts, and I guess that's why I am here.. struggling with my
instincts that tell me to just let him "be".

I really recommend trusting your instincts over what any one tells you. I
think you can get ideas here and other places and if they sound right for
your child try them. If they don't sound right for your child forget it -
at least for the time being. Every child is different and it definitely
works best for me to let my son "be". I really have had to train myself to
"keep out of his way". I have found it helpful to not worry if a particular
activity is teaching him something. If he enjoys it - he will get what he
needs out of it and then move onto something else. It something bores him
it doesn't matter how educational it is my son will not learn anything from
it. Someone else's child probably will but not mine at least not at this
time. I would probably try again later to see if he was interested.

Jill