Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I need direction! boundary
Judie C. Rall
> I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM UNSCHOOLING.What would you change it to? The whole idea is to convey that
> It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view of education
> that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is unfortunate
> and wish it could change.
traditional schooling is inadequate and that we are trying to
deprogram them, so to speak. Perhaps "Intentional Learning" or
"Self-Schooling"?
Judie
Judie C. Rall
There are too many reminders
is borning, mindless, without imagination, and usually produces
less than desirable results. I love my unusual lifestyle. Tell those
reminders to "get out of your face."
Judie
> in my face that what I am doing is not the norm.I absolutely LOVE doing things that are NOT the norm. The norm
is borning, mindless, without imagination, and usually produces
less than desirable results. I love my unusual lifestyle. Tell those
reminders to "get out of your face."
Judie
[email protected]
Hi There All!
My name is Allison and I'm new to the idea of homeschooling. We just
recently (December) pulled our 6-year-old son, Ryland, out of public
school and placed him in a charter school program that combines
traditional class time, called workshops, and homeschooling.
Workshops are Mon. and Wed. I homeschool the other three days. The
charter school provides everything including the schedule of
learning, which is very academic!
At first, I thought this was all great. We were so glad to get Ry
out of the program he was in and his learning really took off with me
having more input in his day. But, as I'm sure you already know, it
is still a struggle.
Ryland has always wanted to be homeschooled and I have resisted.
Didn't think I could do it, wasn't sure I believed in it, etc.
You've heard it all. But, from the first day Ry was home, I was
hooked! But, the struggle was stil there. It wasn't until just two
weeks ago I stumbled across Home Ed Magazine and the whole concept of
unschooling. I was stunned! For six years now I have prided myself
for parenting Ryland using what I call "intuitive parenting", which
really means child directed. I have breastfed on demand and let him
decide when he was ready to stop. I didn't potty-train Ryland, I
just gently guided him until he decided he was ready. I didn't teach
Ryland how to tie his shoes until he asked and then he learned in one
day. The list goes on and on. So, you can understand how my heart
began to ache as I realized that I wasn't homeschooling in the same
way I was parenting.
I have talked to my husband about how I feel and mentioned the
concept of unschooling. That went over like a lead balloon! :-)
But, a year ago he wouldn't have imagined that we would be
homeschooling and he loves it now! He says he'll fight me every step
of the way when I say I want to homeschool on our own, not using a
curriculum.
So where do I go from here? I need information. I need anecdotal
(sp?) evidence. I need direction.
Have others felt strongly about unschooling and felt resistance from
their husbands? What does a typical (if there is such a thing)
unschooling day look like for all of you? How do you let go of the
strong messages from friends, family, society that traditional
schooling is the only way to produce a functioning human being? Are
there any statistics on unschooling? My husband loves proof that it
will all turn out o.k. :-)
I've never struggled this much with anything else since having
Ryland. This is much harder to follow my heart than staying home
fulltime. I thought there was very little support out there in the
world for stay-at-home-moms. But, it seems like nothing compared to
the lack of support and understanding I sense there is for
unschooling.
If you've made it to the end of this letter, I'd love to hear your
thoughts. :-)
Love,
Allison
My name is Allison and I'm new to the idea of homeschooling. We just
recently (December) pulled our 6-year-old son, Ryland, out of public
school and placed him in a charter school program that combines
traditional class time, called workshops, and homeschooling.
Workshops are Mon. and Wed. I homeschool the other three days. The
charter school provides everything including the schedule of
learning, which is very academic!
At first, I thought this was all great. We were so glad to get Ry
out of the program he was in and his learning really took off with me
having more input in his day. But, as I'm sure you already know, it
is still a struggle.
Ryland has always wanted to be homeschooled and I have resisted.
Didn't think I could do it, wasn't sure I believed in it, etc.
You've heard it all. But, from the first day Ry was home, I was
hooked! But, the struggle was stil there. It wasn't until just two
weeks ago I stumbled across Home Ed Magazine and the whole concept of
unschooling. I was stunned! For six years now I have prided myself
for parenting Ryland using what I call "intuitive parenting", which
really means child directed. I have breastfed on demand and let him
decide when he was ready to stop. I didn't potty-train Ryland, I
just gently guided him until he decided he was ready. I didn't teach
Ryland how to tie his shoes until he asked and then he learned in one
day. The list goes on and on. So, you can understand how my heart
began to ache as I realized that I wasn't homeschooling in the same
way I was parenting.
I have talked to my husband about how I feel and mentioned the
concept of unschooling. That went over like a lead balloon! :-)
But, a year ago he wouldn't have imagined that we would be
homeschooling and he loves it now! He says he'll fight me every step
of the way when I say I want to homeschool on our own, not using a
curriculum.
So where do I go from here? I need information. I need anecdotal
(sp?) evidence. I need direction.
Have others felt strongly about unschooling and felt resistance from
their husbands? What does a typical (if there is such a thing)
unschooling day look like for all of you? How do you let go of the
strong messages from friends, family, society that traditional
schooling is the only way to produce a functioning human being? Are
there any statistics on unschooling? My husband loves proof that it
will all turn out o.k. :-)
I've never struggled this much with anything else since having
Ryland. This is much harder to follow my heart than staying home
fulltime. I thought there was very little support out there in the
world for stay-at-home-moms. But, it seems like nothing compared to
the lack of support and understanding I sense there is for
unschooling.
If you've made it to the end of this letter, I'd love to hear your
thoughts. :-)
Love,
Allison
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/29/01 4:29:21 PM, allisongoldstein@... writes:
<< But, it seems like nothing compared to
the lack of support and understanding I sense there is for
unschooling. >>
There are lots of us--we are our own support.
The best thing you could do would be to get your husband to a conference
where unschoolers are speaking. If that's impossible, at least get books.
The Homeschool Book of Answers is good.
Read, read, read at www.unschooling.com
Sandra
<< But, it seems like nothing compared to
the lack of support and understanding I sense there is for
unschooling. >>
There are lots of us--we are our own support.
The best thing you could do would be to get your husband to a conference
where unschoolers are speaking. If that's impossible, at least get books.
The Homeschool Book of Answers is good.
Read, read, read at www.unschooling.com
Sandra
[email protected]
Resistance from a husband?
Does resistance from a former husband count?
This is my first year of homeschooling two of my four children, ages 6 & 8.
My 10 year old daughter is in a traditional public school (which she loves)
getting what seems to be a spotty education at best. My 12 year old son is
in an out-of-district placement for his autism & ADHD.
My homeschooled daughters have been a delight to work with, but I cannot
begin to tell you the opposition we have met at every turn in the road from
their father for reasons that are unclear. Both girls are very bright (CORE
testing before leaving school to get all the testing information in order)
and I had every expectation of following a regular curriculum (Oak Meadow --
very Waldorf). However, as the year has evolved, we're clearly becoming
unschoolers. At this point in time, it is what is working best for my
daughters and they are once again excited about learning. I love it and have
learned so much.
I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM UNSCHOOLING.
It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view of education
that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is unfortunate
and wish it could change.
I am constantly telling their dad all manner of things they've done and
achieved -- but he wants to see workbooks! And on and on it goes...
My homeschooled daughters are definitely doing better than my public school
5th grader who is becoming increasingly conflicted about not being
homeschooled. I'd love for her to be home, but I want her to make the
decision at this point.
I cannot give you answers, but I certainly understand what you are saying.
You aren't alone.
Good luck...and keep us posted.
Nancy
Does resistance from a former husband count?
This is my first year of homeschooling two of my four children, ages 6 & 8.
My 10 year old daughter is in a traditional public school (which she loves)
getting what seems to be a spotty education at best. My 12 year old son is
in an out-of-district placement for his autism & ADHD.
My homeschooled daughters have been a delight to work with, but I cannot
begin to tell you the opposition we have met at every turn in the road from
their father for reasons that are unclear. Both girls are very bright (CORE
testing before leaving school to get all the testing information in order)
and I had every expectation of following a regular curriculum (Oak Meadow --
very Waldorf). However, as the year has evolved, we're clearly becoming
unschoolers. At this point in time, it is what is working best for my
daughters and they are once again excited about learning. I love it and have
learned so much.
I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM UNSCHOOLING.
It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view of education
that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is unfortunate
and wish it could change.
I am constantly telling their dad all manner of things they've done and
achieved -- but he wants to see workbooks! And on and on it goes...
My homeschooled daughters are definitely doing better than my public school
5th grader who is becoming increasingly conflicted about not being
homeschooled. I'd love for her to be home, but I want her to make the
decision at this point.
I cannot give you answers, but I certainly understand what you are saying.
You aren't alone.
Good luck...and keep us posted.
Nancy
Collette Mattingly
-Robin-
tattooed, vegetarian, homebirthing, tandem-nursing mother of two self-led
learners...This sounds just like me.-Collette
tattooed, vegetarian, homebirthing, tandem-nursing mother of two self-led
learners...This sounds just like me.-Collette
----- Original Message -----From: DiamondAirSent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:44 AMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: I need direction! boundary> I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM
UNSCHOOLING.
> It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view of
education
> that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is
unfortunate
> and wish it could change.
I personally don't care a whole lot for the term "unschooling" and usually
only use it as a sort of shorthand with people who are already calling
themselves "unschoolers". To people in the outside world :-), I use the term
"child-led learning" because to me that connotes more of what we are doing.
For one thing, usually when you "un" something, you have to have done it
first. To "undo", you first have to "do", to "untie" you first have to
"tie". We're not unschooling anything. My kids have never been in a school,
not even a pre-school, and will not be until they choose to do so. So
there's nothing there to "un"do. "Un" also implies somehow a reduction to
me, an undoing, a lessening, not a confident, spirited, and thoughtful
moving forward which is more of what I feel we are doing.
As for it scaring people, I think maybe that's part of the point. It's an
in-your-face kind of a term, something to make people sit up and take
notice. In that sense, it can be a double-edged sword. It can be great to
open people's eyes and minds to the other possibilities of education. OTOH,
when it's someone like a CPS person listening, the term is probably not
going to be to your advantage, sadly enough.
Myself, I've been so radical about so many things for so many years that
I've largely given up caring what anyone thinks of anything I do. :-)
-Robin-
tattooed, vegetarian, homebirthing, tandem-nursing mother of two self-led
learners...
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
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Johanna
Allison,
Wow, good questions! Many I have struggled with. Is
unschooling what Ryland was asking you for in the first place? When you talked
to your hubby how did you present it? Does he think you will be doing nothing
all day long? Is Ryland reading already?
When we started homeschooling, I chose
different materials and tailored the curriculum to my children, by what I
perceived as their needs. Dad approved, but it was a very rough year. We
have homeschooled since 97. This year we sort of fell into unschooling. I
haven't even defined the concept to my husband, but he sees their growth. The
child that has the hardest time is the one that spent many years in public
school.She is very dependent on someone telling her what to do
academically. My nine year old has only known a half year of public
school because of a big move (over 1000 miles and twice in six months) He
thrives on unschooling.
Does your husband feel a standard curriculum
guarantees results? How many children fail
school or drop out? Did you feel satisfied with your school experience when you
were growing up? there are many examples of people with unconventional schooling
experiences who excelled. Thomas Edison is one who comes to mind. In response to
public school being the only way to produce a functioning human being, what
did the world do prior to 1830 when there were no public schools? Was everyone
illiterate?
Have you read any books on unschooling? I just finished Teach Your Own
by John Holt. It is an excellent book! I found it at our local library.
Other books are The Unschooling handbook by Mary Griffith,great guide to
the current unschooling movement. Going Home to School by Llewellyn
B. Davis, an excellent resource to help others to see what you now understand is
best for your child and why. She does have a Christian worldview. Dumbing Us
Down by John Taylor Gatto a former teacher of the year who shows what
lessons the public schools really teach. Homeschooling for Excellence by
David and Micki Colfax. They unschooled four sons who eventually received
scholarships to Ivy League schools. The Successful Homeschool Family Handbook
by Raymond and Dorothy Moore, pioneers in the homeschooling movement. maybe
if your husband reads some of these, he will see things differently.
This group is an excellent source of support because we all share the
vision of child directed learning. Personally, being involved in this group
has empowered me to stand firm in what I felt was best for my children and
family.My mother in law thinks I'm nuts. Countless people have told me
"send them to school, you will have a break all day". I want to be with my
children! When your spirit screams NO, you need to listen. Your family and
peers trust you to do what is best in raising your children in other issues.
Sometimes they need to see the "proof" before they will agree. some may never
approve and you need to accept that.
Johanna
P.S. sorry so long
----- Original Message -----
From: allisongoldstein@...Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:27 PMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] I need direction!Hi There All!
My name is Allison and I'm new to the idea of homeschooling. We just
recently (December) pulled our 6-year-old son, Ryland, out of public
school and placed him in a charter school program that combines
traditional class time, called workshops, and homeschooling.
Workshops are Mon. and Wed. I homeschool the other three days. The
charter school provides everything including the schedule of
learning, which is very academic!
At first, I thought this was all great. We were so glad to get Ry
out of the program he was in and his learning really took off with me
having more input in his day. But, as I'm sure you already know, it
is still a struggle.
Ryland has always wanted to be homeschooled and I have resisted.
Didn't think I could do it, wasn't sure I believed in it, etc.
You've heard it all. But, from the first day Ry was home, I was
hooked! But, the struggle was stil there. It wasn't until just two
weeks ago I stumbled across Home Ed Magazine and the whole concept of
unschooling. I was stunned! For six years now I have prided myself
for parenting Ryland using what I call "intuitive parenting", which
really means child directed. I have breastfed on demand and let him
decide when he was ready to stop. I didn't potty-train Ryland, I
just gently guided him until he decided he was ready. I didn't teach
Ryland how to tie his shoes until he asked and then he learned in one
day. The list goes on and on. So, you can understand how my heart
began to ache as I realized that I wasn't homeschooling in the same
way I was parenting.
I have talked to my husband about how I feel and mentioned the
concept of unschooling. That went over like a lead balloon! :-)
But, a year ago he wouldn't have imagined that we would be
homeschooling and he loves it now! He says he'll fight me every step
of the way when I say I want to homeschool on our own, not using a
curriculum.
So where do I go from here? I need information. I need anecdotal
(sp?) evidence. I need direction.
Have others felt strongly about unschooling and felt resistance from
their husbands? What does a typical (if there is such a thing)
unschooling day look like for all of you? How do you let go of the
strong messages from friends, family, society that traditional
schooling is the only way to produce a functioning human being? Are
there any statistics on unschooling? My husband loves proof that it
will all turn out o.k. :-)
I've never struggled this much with anything else since having
Ryland. This is much harder to follow my heart than staying home
fulltime. I thought there was very little support out there in the
world for stay-at-home-moms. But, it seems like nothing compared to
the lack of support and understanding I sense there is for
unschooling.
If you've made it to the end of this letter, I'd love to hear your
thoughts. :-)
Love,
Allison
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[email protected]
How do you let go of the
strong messages from friends, family, society that traditional
schooling is the only way to produce a functioning human being?
I am having a hard time letting go of this. There are too many reminders
in my face that what I am doing is not the norm. Sometimes I wonder if I
am the crazy one. As my kids grow and demonstrate learning, it does get
easier though. I feel better when I get lots of support for myself.
Growing Without Schooling, Home Education Magazine, any and all books on
unschooling and some on homeschooling, this list, all are very helpful to
me. As far as family or friends go, I tend to tell them the things that
sound "educational", and just not mention the rest. OTH, as I go farther
down the path I am feeling more comfortable telling my mom (the only one
who really asks - and she LOVES my dds sooo much), some of my ideas about
why I'm doing what I'm doing. Also, if your child is young, I find Dr.
Raymond Moore's ideas of delayed education very convincing. (Homegrown
Kids, or something like that? What DID he write? I don't really like
all of his ideas, BUT DO like the delayed academics part.) So, you can
tell family about the advantages of delaying formal academics until 10 or
12. By then, they will be so impressed with your son that they won't
worry so much about the details.
Mary Ellen
March is National Nutrition Month
Did you eat your 5 today?
(fruits and vegetables, that is!)
strong messages from friends, family, society that traditional
schooling is the only way to produce a functioning human being?
I am having a hard time letting go of this. There are too many reminders
in my face that what I am doing is not the norm. Sometimes I wonder if I
am the crazy one. As my kids grow and demonstrate learning, it does get
easier though. I feel better when I get lots of support for myself.
Growing Without Schooling, Home Education Magazine, any and all books on
unschooling and some on homeschooling, this list, all are very helpful to
me. As far as family or friends go, I tend to tell them the things that
sound "educational", and just not mention the rest. OTH, as I go farther
down the path I am feeling more comfortable telling my mom (the only one
who really asks - and she LOVES my dds sooo much), some of my ideas about
why I'm doing what I'm doing. Also, if your child is young, I find Dr.
Raymond Moore's ideas of delayed education very convincing. (Homegrown
Kids, or something like that? What DID he write? I don't really like
all of his ideas, BUT DO like the delayed academics part.) So, you can
tell family about the advantages of delaying formal academics until 10 or
12. By then, they will be so impressed with your son that they won't
worry so much about the details.
Mary Ellen
March is National Nutrition Month
Did you eat your 5 today?
(fruits and vegetables, that is!)
A. Yates
I know that when I first started talking about homeschooling, my husband
didn't say No, but wasn't sure. He had doubts. (so did I) I did alot
of reading...ALOT! He read nothing. Every once in awhile he will read
something I ask him to (an article, never a book) This is fine with me.
His turning point was when we had some homeschooled all the way through
kids over for dinner. They were in the late teens then. A brother and
sister. He was so impressed by them.... They were not your typical
teenagers with alot of "hang ups". After that, he was really much less
doubtful with the whole thing
Maybe if your husband could meet some homeschool families...see their
kids, even if they are young. That is a big boost.
Ann
didn't say No, but wasn't sure. He had doubts. (so did I) I did alot
of reading...ALOT! He read nothing. Every once in awhile he will read
something I ask him to (an article, never a book) This is fine with me.
His turning point was when we had some homeschooled all the way through
kids over for dinner. They were in the late teens then. A brother and
sister. He was so impressed by them.... They were not your typical
teenagers with alot of "hang ups". After that, he was really much less
doubtful with the whole thing
Maybe if your husband could meet some homeschool families...see their
kids, even if they are young. That is a big boost.
Ann
[email protected]
Allison--HI--I was that many good books were recommended. I just wanted to
add "Learning All The Time" by John Holt. When we decided to homeschool I
read a couple of Homeschooling books and they were informative. I heard John
Holt's name mentioned repeatedly at a La Leche League conference and again at
Unschooling.com. I checked this book out of the library one morning and
finished it that night. It was excellent! It totally changed my outlook on
the learning process.
I just started "Teach Your Own" also.
Good Luck! My husband is very supportive of the idea----but the rest of the
family still thinks I'm crazy so I know somewhat how you feel! :)Merri
add "Learning All The Time" by John Holt. When we decided to homeschool I
read a couple of Homeschooling books and they were informative. I heard John
Holt's name mentioned repeatedly at a La Leche League conference and again at
Unschooling.com. I checked this book out of the library one morning and
finished it that night. It was excellent! It totally changed my outlook on
the learning process.
I just started "Teach Your Own" also.
Good Luck! My husband is very supportive of the idea----but the rest of the
family still thinks I'm crazy so I know somewhat how you feel! :)Merri
[email protected]
This is such a good question! I so fully embrace the concept of
"de-schooling," which has been essential for my 8 year old daughter who
absolutely "hated" school by the end of 2nd grade. I don't think everyone
understands what is going on with our children who have already experienced
public school in such a negative way, but for my daughter Jillian,
de-schooling is what has been necessary and has indeed occurred. I never
heard the term before a month or so ago, but it fits and its works.
Unschooling was how it happened.
My happy 1st grader, Hayley, surprised me in wanting to homeschool and is now
saying she is "having the time of my life" (I love this at age 7!!!) despite
the fact that her public school kindergarten was fine for her.
So, where are we?
Maybe (I'm thinking out loud) people think that "unschooling" means
"unlearning" or not learning or something similar. I did, however, love the
question about drinking "uncola while you unschool!" I think that's part of
the problem: what does it mean? That was a great question and, for me, got to
the heart of the semantic issue: WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
I know it means something different for every family and every child, as it
should. I know it isn't about watching television or not, or being a
vegetarian or not. It isn't about Christian education or any other. It is an
approach to learning that might be appropriate for Christians and
non-Christians, vegetarians and meat eaters, TV addicts, PBS only people or
I-don't-own-a-televison people. It absolutely is non judgmental.
BUT WHAT IS THE CORRECT TERM?
I think this matters very little to those of us who are doing what we do and
believe in it and want to do what is best for our individual children.
However, most of us probably have friends or relatives or someone asking very
legitimate and curious questions about how our children are learning. Do we
just ignore their questions?
I am very, very interested in the ideas of others who have tried to explain
how their children are learning and how you are facilitating that process.
I am not questioning anyone's approach or style or beliefs in any way.
I guess I am asking how we can best articulate what we are doing, what our
children are doing and what we are trying to achieve together.
This is an extraordinary group!!!!
Nancy
"de-schooling," which has been essential for my 8 year old daughter who
absolutely "hated" school by the end of 2nd grade. I don't think everyone
understands what is going on with our children who have already experienced
public school in such a negative way, but for my daughter Jillian,
de-schooling is what has been necessary and has indeed occurred. I never
heard the term before a month or so ago, but it fits and its works.
Unschooling was how it happened.
My happy 1st grader, Hayley, surprised me in wanting to homeschool and is now
saying she is "having the time of my life" (I love this at age 7!!!) despite
the fact that her public school kindergarten was fine for her.
So, where are we?
Maybe (I'm thinking out loud) people think that "unschooling" means
"unlearning" or not learning or something similar. I did, however, love the
question about drinking "uncola while you unschool!" I think that's part of
the problem: what does it mean? That was a great question and, for me, got to
the heart of the semantic issue: WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
I know it means something different for every family and every child, as it
should. I know it isn't about watching television or not, or being a
vegetarian or not. It isn't about Christian education or any other. It is an
approach to learning that might be appropriate for Christians and
non-Christians, vegetarians and meat eaters, TV addicts, PBS only people or
I-don't-own-a-televison people. It absolutely is non judgmental.
BUT WHAT IS THE CORRECT TERM?
I think this matters very little to those of us who are doing what we do and
believe in it and want to do what is best for our individual children.
However, most of us probably have friends or relatives or someone asking very
legitimate and curious questions about how our children are learning. Do we
just ignore their questions?
I am very, very interested in the ideas of others who have tried to explain
how their children are learning and how you are facilitating that process.
I am not questioning anyone's approach or style or beliefs in any way.
I guess I am asking how we can best articulate what we are doing, what our
children are doing and what we are trying to achieve together.
This is an extraordinary group!!!!
Nancy
DiamondAir
> I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERMUNSCHOOLING.
> It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view ofeducation
> that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term isunfortunate
> and wish it could change.I personally don't care a whole lot for the term "unschooling" and usually
only use it as a sort of shorthand with people who are already calling
themselves "unschoolers". To people in the outside world :-), I use the term
"child-led learning" because to me that connotes more of what we are doing.
For one thing, usually when you "un" something, you have to have done it
first. To "undo", you first have to "do", to "untie" you first have to
"tie". We're not unschooling anything. My kids have never been in a school,
not even a pre-school, and will not be until they choose to do so. So
there's nothing there to "un"do. "Un" also implies somehow a reduction to
me, an undoing, a lessening, not a confident, spirited, and thoughtful
moving forward which is more of what I feel we are doing.
As for it scaring people, I think maybe that's part of the point. It's an
in-your-face kind of a term, something to make people sit up and take
notice. In that sense, it can be a double-edged sword. It can be great to
open people's eyes and minds to the other possibilities of education. OTOH,
when it's someone like a CPS person listening, the term is probably not
going to be to your advantage, sadly enough.
Myself, I've been so radical about so many things for so many years that
I've largely given up caring what anyone thinks of anything I do. :-)
-Robin-
tattooed, vegetarian, homebirthing, tandem-nursing mother of two self-led
learners...
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
[email protected]
In a message dated 03/30/2001 3:44:57 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
saninocencio1@... writes:
Bingo!
I just started calling it that and it sounded right and it's not a perfect
name for what we do either but to most people we just say homeschooling -- do
it and let him call it whatever he wants!
And/or maybe there is an area that Dad would like to be involved in -- then
he can see for himself what works and what doesn't -- what's real and what
isn't.
Just thinking . . .
Nance
saninocencio1@... writes:
I haven't even defined the concept to my husband, but he sees their growth.
Bingo!
I just started calling it that and it sounded right and it's not a perfect
name for what we do either but to most people we just say homeschooling -- do
it and let him call it whatever he wants!
And/or maybe there is an area that Dad would like to be involved in -- then
he can see for himself what works and what doesn't -- what's real and what
isn't.
Just thinking . . .
Nance
[email protected]
Thanks, Judie!
Mary Ellen
less than desirable results. I love my unusual lifestyle. Tell those
reminders to "get out of your face."
Mary Ellen
>>>>>>>I absolutely LOVE doing things that are NOT the norm. The normis borning, mindless, without imagination, and usually produces
less than desirable results. I love my unusual lifestyle. Tell those
reminders to "get out of your face."
Vaughnde Edwards
Self-Schooling or as I call it Child-led
Schooling.
-----Original Message-----
From: Judie C. Rall <adonai@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, March 29, 2001 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I need direction! boundary
> I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM UNSCHOOLING.
> It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view of education
> that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is unfortunate
> and wish it could change.
What would you change it to? The whole idea is to convey that
traditional schooling is inadequate and that we are trying to
deprogram them, so to speak. Perhaps "Intentional Learning" or
"Self-Schooling"?
Judie
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Tracy Oldfield
>When I'm asked by the 'man on the street' (who's usually a woman,
>
> I guess I am asking how we can best articulate what we are doing, what
> our children are doing and what we are trying to achieve together.
>
> This is an extraordinary group!!!!
>
> Nancy
>
>
>
if we're talking about children) 'you teach them yourself?' which is
the first question I get when I tell folk that they don't go to school (I
know, don't take me there :-) ) I say, 'not exactly, I don't teach, I
help them learn.' (I even get variants on this from people who
phone me about the local HE meeting, usually 'how do you teach
them?') Atm that's fine, cos most of the people I'm talking to can
relate when I go on about how they learn before they go to school,
do we teach our children to walk, or do they learn 'by themselves?'
It's neither of course, they learn by a mixture of watching what
everyone else does and encouragement, and developing the
physical skills... Whether it will make a difference when I'm talking
to parents of older children (if mine are that bit older I can envisage
this more) I don't know, but I think it's something most people can
relate to, what children did before they went to school.
Hope this makes sense!!
Tracy
[email protected]
For some background on the term "unschooling," you may want to read:
http://www.unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm
Billy
http://www.unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm
Billy
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "DiamondAir" <diamondair@e...> wrote:
> > I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM
> UNSCHOOLING.
> > It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of view
of
> education
> > that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term is
> unfortunate
> > and wish it could change.
>
Elizabeth Hill
> He says he'll fight me every stepHi, Allison --
>of the way when I say I want to homeschool on our own, not using a
>curriculum.
>
>So where do I go from here? I need information. I need anecdotal
>(sp?) evidence. I need direction.
It might be wise to acknowledge to him that this IS a mutual decision, and
YES you will work it out together. You aren't just going to hi-jack the
decision and make it unilateraly. (I would hope that once you offer him
this degree of courteous respect, he would return it to you.)
::: aside ::: (And yet, I was shrieking at my husband in the car last
night, (about other subjects) so there's certainly a big dollop of
two-facedness in what I'm saying.) (I guess I'll try harder to take my own
advice.)
I would want to be able to ask your husband WHY he believes using
curriculum leads to learning. My brother told me that my son should go to
preschool. I asked him why and he said "well, I did, and I turned out
fine". That's not exactly the same as a longitudinal study showing that
kids who go to preschool turn out to be happier, wealthier or more demure.
<g> Logic like my brothers can also be used to support ritual mutilation
and scarification.
(Apologies to those of you who are eating breakfast while reading your
mail.)
Alfie Kohn's book, _The Schools Our Children Deserve_ has some good
insights (based on research, with footnotes) about why hands-on,
interest-driven learning is best for children. If your husband doesn't
want to read the whole book, maybe just Appendix A would be persuasive.
My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school experiences.
They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps they even think
that the pain was necessary and "worth it". So, getting your dh to discuss
his school days with you, and tell you what he remembers that was great and
what he remembers that was lousy, can be a useful starting place.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/30/2001 9:20:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
FUNLists@... writes:
<< For some background on the term "unschooling," you may want to read:
http://www.unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm
Billy
week, one of his friends from last year's team ran up to see when Jesse could
come play. "When does he have Spring Break?" Ben asked. We told him we
thought he knew Jesse was homeschooled. "Oh, I know, I am too!" he said, "My
mom is giving me a week off for Spring Break! When is Jesse off?"
My husband looked at me and grinned and said, "Our whole family is "off" all
the time." I was left to explain to Ben that Jesse would give him a call. :)
I guess I have to determine how much people really want to know when they
ask, and what my motives for telling them are. When I explain too much, my
daughter HAS said, "Mom, they don't really want to know."
Laura
FUNLists@... writes:
<< For some background on the term "unschooling," you may want to read:
http://www.unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm
Billy
>>Thanks Billy -- I printed that. It's wonderful. At my son's soccer game last
week, one of his friends from last year's team ran up to see when Jesse could
come play. "When does he have Spring Break?" Ben asked. We told him we
thought he knew Jesse was homeschooled. "Oh, I know, I am too!" he said, "My
mom is giving me a week off for Spring Break! When is Jesse off?"
My husband looked at me and grinned and said, "Our whole family is "off" all
the time." I was left to explain to Ben that Jesse would give him a call. :)
I guess I have to determine how much people really want to know when they
ask, and what my motives for telling them are. When I explain too much, my
daughter HAS said, "Mom, they don't really want to know."
Laura
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/31/01 10:43:10 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school experiences.
They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps they even think
that the pain was necessary and "worth it". >>
We were all TOLD that--
--you HAVE to go to school.
--it's good for you.
--we did it (parents, grandparents, etc.).
--otherwise you can't get a job.
--you wouldn't have any friends if you didn't go to school.
--everybody goes to school.
That last piece of propaganda was hammered home in the most unlikely (and
unfair) ways. We have an old children's series, and I was reading a story to
Holly, her request, her choice of story. It was about the boy Jesus staying
behind in the temple in Jerusalem. No problem, I thought--fine story.
WRONG!
It was written as a school propaganda, obey your parents story.
The families were on a school trip, basically; it says Jesus had to go to
school just like you do.
And when he was discovered missing his parents went and got him and he was a
bad boy to have stayed.
None of the all-light-and-glory "Can't you see must do my father's business."
So it wasn't just school itself that told people throughout the 20th century
that school was right and good and natural, and the absence of it was heathen
and ignorant and unthinkable.
Sandra Dodd
______________________________
http://expage.com/RadicalUnschooling
______________________________
______________________________
<< My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school experiences.
They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps they even think
that the pain was necessary and "worth it". >>
We were all TOLD that--
--you HAVE to go to school.
--it's good for you.
--we did it (parents, grandparents, etc.).
--otherwise you can't get a job.
--you wouldn't have any friends if you didn't go to school.
--everybody goes to school.
That last piece of propaganda was hammered home in the most unlikely (and
unfair) ways. We have an old children's series, and I was reading a story to
Holly, her request, her choice of story. It was about the boy Jesus staying
behind in the temple in Jerusalem. No problem, I thought--fine story.
WRONG!
It was written as a school propaganda, obey your parents story.
The families were on a school trip, basically; it says Jesus had to go to
school just like you do.
And when he was discovered missing his parents went and got him and he was a
bad boy to have stayed.
None of the all-light-and-glory "Can't you see must do my father's business."
So it wasn't just school itself that told people throughout the 20th century
that school was right and good and natural, and the absence of it was heathen
and ignorant and unthinkable.
Sandra Dodd
______________________________
http://expage.com/RadicalUnschooling
______________________________
______________________________
[email protected]
Hi Johanna,
Thanks to you and everyone else for all their wonderful responses to
my request! I'm still working my way through them all and I'm really
enjoying them. As I read all your thoughts, I'm getting more
comfortable with the idea of defining with my son what "unschooling"
means to us. He's a very wise 6-year-old and I've always been able
to include him in the process of decision-making.
Now, to answer specifically a few of your questions.
You asked, "Is Unschooling what Ryland was asking you for in the
first place?"
Ryland has wanted to be homeschooled since he could talk. I was
always resistant, wasn't something I thought I wanted to do or would
be good at. Since we've been home in this modified program, I've
discovered just how good I am at it and how much more I want of it.
Ryland has said he wants to be home all the time and I believe him.
As far as "unschooling", I'm not sure either of us has defined it
well enough to say we want it. Although, like I said in my original
letter, I have parented Ryland in a way that makes unschooling seem
to be a natural progression.
You asked, "Does he think he'll be doing nothing all day long?"
At this point, since Ryland was in public school for 1 1/2 years and
is still now in workshops two days a week, I don't think he's ready
for absolutely no structure. I would have to wean him from it. But,
to some degree, I'm realizing that Ryland likes structure. He is a
rule-follower just like mom! So, as I begin to define unschooling in
our lives, I believe that it will include structure, but structure
that Ry and I define, not others. Does that make sense?
You asked, "Does your husband feel a standard curriculum guarantees
results?"
Yes, yes, yes! At the same time we were making the decision to take
Ry out of public school, my husband made the decision to return to
school to get his teaching credential. He currently owns a record
store (24+ years) and is looking for a change. What perfection that
we are moving out of the school system and into it simultaneously.
We actually know a couple male ps teachers whose wives homeshcool
their children.
You asked, "Did you feel satisfied with your school experience when
you were growing up?
At the time, yes. Looking back, no. What school did provide for me
was the stability and predictability that I desprately needed as a
child. There was a lot of chaos in my home and I can't imagine not
having school to go to. But, where I believe the school did fail me
was especially in their approach to math. At that time, they didn't
teach concepts, they taught "how" to do math. It wasn't until
adulthood when I began using math in my own work that I discovered
that I'm reeeeeally good at math. I wish I'd known it sooner.
Thanks again for your thoughtful response. I look forward to getting
to know you all.
Love,
Allison
Thanks to you and everyone else for all their wonderful responses to
my request! I'm still working my way through them all and I'm really
enjoying them. As I read all your thoughts, I'm getting more
comfortable with the idea of defining with my son what "unschooling"
means to us. He's a very wise 6-year-old and I've always been able
to include him in the process of decision-making.
Now, to answer specifically a few of your questions.
You asked, "Is Unschooling what Ryland was asking you for in the
first place?"
Ryland has wanted to be homeschooled since he could talk. I was
always resistant, wasn't something I thought I wanted to do or would
be good at. Since we've been home in this modified program, I've
discovered just how good I am at it and how much more I want of it.
Ryland has said he wants to be home all the time and I believe him.
As far as "unschooling", I'm not sure either of us has defined it
well enough to say we want it. Although, like I said in my original
letter, I have parented Ryland in a way that makes unschooling seem
to be a natural progression.
You asked, "Does he think he'll be doing nothing all day long?"
At this point, since Ryland was in public school for 1 1/2 years and
is still now in workshops two days a week, I don't think he's ready
for absolutely no structure. I would have to wean him from it. But,
to some degree, I'm realizing that Ryland likes structure. He is a
rule-follower just like mom! So, as I begin to define unschooling in
our lives, I believe that it will include structure, but structure
that Ry and I define, not others. Does that make sense?
You asked, "Does your husband feel a standard curriculum guarantees
results?"
Yes, yes, yes! At the same time we were making the decision to take
Ry out of public school, my husband made the decision to return to
school to get his teaching credential. He currently owns a record
store (24+ years) and is looking for a change. What perfection that
we are moving out of the school system and into it simultaneously.
We actually know a couple male ps teachers whose wives homeshcool
their children.
You asked, "Did you feel satisfied with your school experience when
you were growing up?
At the time, yes. Looking back, no. What school did provide for me
was the stability and predictability that I desprately needed as a
child. There was a lot of chaos in my home and I can't imagine not
having school to go to. But, where I believe the school did fail me
was especially in their approach to math. At that time, they didn't
teach concepts, they taught "how" to do math. It wasn't until
adulthood when I began using math in my own work that I discovered
that I'm reeeeeally good at math. I wish I'd known it sooner.
Thanks again for your thoughtful response. I look forward to getting
to know you all.
Love,
Allison
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@s...> wrote:
really represents what we should be doing not just in schooling but
in life in general. Living in the moment and listening to the cues
that tell us what is best for that moment.
>UNSCHOOLING.
>
> > I think one of the biggest problems with unschooling is THE TERM
> > It connotes such a laid back, insubstantial, hippy-kind of viewof education
> > that it scares alot of people. In many ways, I think the term isunfortunate
> > and wish it could change.How 'bout Intuitive Schooling? I know it's "touchy feely" but it
>
> What would you change it to? The whole idea is to convey that
> traditional schooling is inadequate and that we are trying to
> deprogram them, so to speak. Perhaps "Intentional Learning" or
> "Self-Schooling"?
>
>
> Judie
really represents what we should be doing not just in schooling but
in life in general. Living in the moment and listening to the cues
that tell us what is best for that moment.
[email protected]
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., megates@j... wrote:
life. And amazingly enough, I often find what is right also happens
to be the norm! A lot of times the norm is the norm because it
works! It's not always bad to do the norm. It's only bad if you do
it blindly and without thoughtful consideration about what is best
for you.
Love,
Allison
> Thanks, Judie!norm
>
> Mary Ellen
>
> >>>>>>>I absolutely LOVE doing things that are NOT the norm. The
> is borning, mindless, without imagination, and usually producesthose
> less than desirable results. I love my unusual lifestyle. Tell
> reminders to "get out of your face."I try to use my intuition to find what's right for each situation in
life. And amazingly enough, I often find what is right also happens
to be the norm! A lot of times the norm is the norm because it
works! It's not always bad to do the norm. It's only bad if you do
it blindly and without thoughtful consideration about what is best
for you.
Love,
Allison
[email protected]
Elizabeth,
I really like your suggestion about getting my husband to talk about
his school days. If nothing else, it will give ME insight into what
motivates him. Possibly it will give him insight, as well.
As far as letting him know that this is not a decision I will make
unilaterally, he knows that. Actually, when he made the comment that
he would fight it every step of the way, my response was, "Well, you
can do that. But right now, I'm just getting information. You might
want to wait until we're actually making a decision about all this.
Otherwise, it seems like a lot of wasted energy." That seemed to
settle him down. He's still absolutely sure he doesn't even want us
to homeschool fulltime, but he's also listening whole-heartedly to my
concerns and offering constructive suggestions how to fix things from
within. By being open to his suggestions and trying them with an
open mind, I hope that it opens his mind to new ideas too. How can I
expect him to have an open mind if I am acting like a runaway train,
plowing through all his ideas like clueless cows on the tracks! :-)
I felt panicky the day I wrote "I need direction" and I still want
things to change. But, now I'm remembering that this is all a
process and we'll get where we need to be. Since my son was born 6
years ago, my husband and I have found ourselves doing sooooo many
things that we said we would never do. Time will tell.
Thanks again to all of you for your loving and thoughtful responses.
Love,
Allison
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Elizabeth Hill" <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
I really like your suggestion about getting my husband to talk about
his school days. If nothing else, it will give ME insight into what
motivates him. Possibly it will give him insight, as well.
As far as letting him know that this is not a decision I will make
unilaterally, he knows that. Actually, when he made the comment that
he would fight it every step of the way, my response was, "Well, you
can do that. But right now, I'm just getting information. You might
want to wait until we're actually making a decision about all this.
Otherwise, it seems like a lot of wasted energy." That seemed to
settle him down. He's still absolutely sure he doesn't even want us
to homeschool fulltime, but he's also listening whole-heartedly to my
concerns and offering constructive suggestions how to fix things from
within. By being open to his suggestions and trying them with an
open mind, I hope that it opens his mind to new ideas too. How can I
expect him to have an open mind if I am acting like a runaway train,
plowing through all his ideas like clueless cows on the tracks! :-)
I felt panicky the day I wrote "I need direction" and I still want
things to change. But, now I'm remembering that this is all a
process and we'll get where we need to be. Since my son was born 6
years ago, my husband and I have found ourselves doing sooooo many
things that we said we would never do. Time will tell.
Thanks again to all of you for your loving and thoughtful responses.
Love,
Allison
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Elizabeth Hill" <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
> > He says he'll fight me every stepdecision, and
> >of the way when I say I want to homeschool on our own, not using a
> >curriculum.
> >
> >So where do I go from here? I need information. I need anecdotal
> >(sp?) evidence. I need direction.
>
> Hi, Allison --
>
> It might be wise to acknowledge to him that this IS a mutual
> YES you will work it out together. You aren't just going to hi-jack the
> decision and make it unilateraly. (I would hope that once youoffer him
> this degree of courteous respect, he would return it to you.)last
>
> ::: aside ::: (And yet, I was shrieking at my husband in the car
> night, (about other subjects) so there's certainly a big dollop oftake my own
> two-facedness in what I'm saying.) (I guess I'll try harder to
> advice.)should go to
>
> I would want to be able to ask your husband WHY he believes using
> curriculum leads to learning. My brother told me that my son
> preschool. I asked him why and he said "well, I did, and I turnedout
> fine". That's not exactly the same as a longitudinal study showingthat
> kids who go to preschool turn out to be happier, wealthier or moredemure.
> <g> Logic like my brothers can also be used to support ritualmutilation
> and scarification.your
>
> (Apologies to those of you who are eating breakfast while reading
> mail.)doesn't
>
> Alfie Kohn's book, _The Schools Our Children Deserve_ has some good
> insights (based on research, with footnotes) about why hands-on,
> interest-driven learning is best for children. If your husband
> want to read the whole book, maybe just Appendix A would bepersuasive.
>experiences.
> My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school
> They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps theyeven think
> that the pain was necessary and "worth it". So, getting your dh todiscuss
> his school days with you, and tell you what he remembers that wasgreat and
> what he remembers that was lousy, can be a useful starting place.
>
> Betsy
[email protected]
Hi Sandra,
That's not what I've gotten out of that story in the bible. In fact,
it is one of my favorites, Luke 2:41-52. This is my interpretation.
Jesus and his family were traveling to Jerusalem for the Passover
festival. When they left to return to Nazareth, Jesus' family didn't
realize immediately that he was missing. It was most likely that he
was old enough to travel in a separate part of the group now and that
explains why it took them so long to realize he was missing. Once
they realized he was missing, it took them three days to discover him
in Jerusalem studying among the religious teachers, discussing deep
questions with them. Mary was beside herself when she discovered
that Jesus was not traveling home with the group. Mary wasn't as
upset that he stayed behind as she was that he hadn't communicated
his decision. She was terrified that she had lost her child, the Son
of G-d that had been put into her charge by G-d. Seems a pretty
reasonable reaction to say, "What were you thinking?" Then, the
story continues that Jesuse returned to Nazareth with his parents and
was obedient to them. What this means to me is that, even though
Jesus was the Son of G-d, he was still a human child that needed
guidance and structure to ensure he would fulfill His purpose. I'm
not sure how this fits into society's propaganda about schooling.
Although, if Mary had been more sensitive, she would've realized that
Jesus was where he really belonged. He actually belonged in "school"
(the temple is where lessons were taught) and his parents were the
ones pulling him out. Maybe, it would've been better for them to
move to Jerusalem so that Jesus could continue his studies with the
great teachers who were quickly becoming his peers. Also, it is my
understanding that Mary was well-informed in Jewish law and tradition
and was an important part of Jesus' knowledge of Judaism. It seems
that the perfect solution would've been to combine those two
resources so that Jesus would've gotten the best of both worlds. :-)
That's not what I've gotten out of that story in the bible. In fact,
it is one of my favorites, Luke 2:41-52. This is my interpretation.
Jesus and his family were traveling to Jerusalem for the Passover
festival. When they left to return to Nazareth, Jesus' family didn't
realize immediately that he was missing. It was most likely that he
was old enough to travel in a separate part of the group now and that
explains why it took them so long to realize he was missing. Once
they realized he was missing, it took them three days to discover him
in Jerusalem studying among the religious teachers, discussing deep
questions with them. Mary was beside herself when she discovered
that Jesus was not traveling home with the group. Mary wasn't as
upset that he stayed behind as she was that he hadn't communicated
his decision. She was terrified that she had lost her child, the Son
of G-d that had been put into her charge by G-d. Seems a pretty
reasonable reaction to say, "What were you thinking?" Then, the
story continues that Jesuse returned to Nazareth with his parents and
was obedient to them. What this means to me is that, even though
Jesus was the Son of G-d, he was still a human child that needed
guidance and structure to ensure he would fulfill His purpose. I'm
not sure how this fits into society's propaganda about schooling.
Although, if Mary had been more sensitive, she would've realized that
Jesus was where he really belonged. He actually belonged in "school"
(the temple is where lessons were taught) and his parents were the
ones pulling him out. Maybe, it would've been better for them to
move to Jerusalem so that Jesus could continue his studies with the
great teachers who were quickly becoming his peers. Also, it is my
understanding that Mary was well-informed in Jewish law and tradition
and was an important part of Jesus' knowledge of Judaism. It seems
that the perfect solution would've been to combine those two
resources so that Jesus would've gotten the best of both worlds. :-)
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/31/01 10:43:10 AM, ecsamhill@e... writes:
>
> << My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school
experiences.
> They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps they
even think
> that the pain was necessary and "worth it". >>
>
> We were all TOLD that--
>
> --you HAVE to go to school.
> --it's good for you.
> --we did it (parents, grandparents, etc.).
> --otherwise you can't get a job.
> --you wouldn't have any friends if you didn't go to school.
> --everybody goes to school.
>
> That last piece of propaganda was hammered home in the most
unlikely (and
> unfair) ways. We have an old children's series, and I was reading
a story to
> Holly, her request, her choice of story. It was about the boy
Jesus staying
> behind in the temple in Jerusalem. No problem, I thought--fine
story.
>
> WRONG!
>
> It was written as a school propaganda, obey your parents story.
>
> The families were on a school trip, basically; it says Jesus had to
go to
> school just like you do.
>
> And when he was discovered missing his parents went and got him and
he was a
> bad boy to have stayed.
>
> None of the all-light-and-glory "Can't you see must do my father's
business."
>
> So it wasn't just school itself that told people throughout the
20th century
> that school was right and good and natural, and the absence of it
was heathen
> and ignorant and unthinkable.
>
> Sandra Dodd
> ______________________________
> http://expage.com/RadicalUnschooling
> ______________________________
> ______________________________
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/1/01 2:32:25 PM, allisongoldstein@... writes:
<< How 'bout Intuitive Schooling? I know it's "touchy feely" but it
really represents what we should be doing not just in schooling but
in life in general. >>
But it's not at all "schooling."
Sandra
<< How 'bout Intuitive Schooling? I know it's "touchy feely" but it
really represents what we should be doing not just in schooling but
in life in general. >>
But it's not at all "schooling."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/1/01 3:21:50 PM, allisongoldstein@... writes:
<<
That's not what I've gotten out of that story in the bible. >>
We weren't reading the Bible, we were reading a retelling of the story in a
book from the 1920's or 1930's--a series of kids' literature books.
Here's what the Bible says:
[41] Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the
passover.
[42] And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the
custom of the feast.
[43] And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus
tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.
[44] But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's
journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
[45] And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem,
seeking him.
[46] And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them
questions.
[47] And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
[48] And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him,
Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought
thee sorrowing.
[49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I
must be about my Father's business?
[50] And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
[51] And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto
them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
[52] And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and
man.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What that book I was reading Holly said was that Jesus had to go to school,
and spoke of the trip to Jerusalem as a field trip.
Sandra
<<
That's not what I've gotten out of that story in the bible. >>
We weren't reading the Bible, we were reading a retelling of the story in a
book from the 1920's or 1930's--a series of kids' literature books.
Here's what the Bible says:
[41] Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the
passover.
[42] And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the
custom of the feast.
[43] And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus
tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.
[44] But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's
journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
[45] And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem,
seeking him.
[46] And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them
questions.
[47] And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
[48] And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him,
Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought
thee sorrowing.
[49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I
must be about my Father's business?
[50] And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
[51] And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto
them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
[52] And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and
man.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What that book I was reading Holly said was that Jesus had to go to school,
and spoke of the trip to Jerusalem as a field trip.
Sandra
Johanna
Of course if you think about the
biblical account, Jesus wanted to learn from the priests. He wasnn't there
because society said it was the place for him to be
Johanna
----- Original Message -----From: SandraDodd@...Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:16 AMSubject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] I need direction!
In a message dated 3/31/01 10:43:10 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< My belief is that many men are "stoic" about their school experiences.
They won't admit how much those experiences hurt. Perhaps they even think
that the pain was necessary and "worth it". >>
We were all TOLD that--
--you HAVE to go to school.
--it's good for you.
--we did it (parents, grandparents, etc.).
--otherwise you can't get a job.
--you wouldn't have any friends if you didn't go to school.
--everybody goes to school.
That last piece of propaganda was hammered home in the most unlikely (and
unfair) ways. We have an old children's series, and I was reading a story to
Holly, her request, her choice of story. It was about the boy Jesus staying
behind in the temple in Jerusalem. No problem, I thought--fine story.
WRONG!
It was written as a school propaganda, obey your parents story.
The families were on a school trip, basically; it says Jesus had to go to
school just like you do.
And when he was discovered missing his parents went and got him and he was a
bad boy to have stayed.
None of the all-light-and-glory "Can't you see must do my father's business."
So it wasn't just school itself that told people throughout the 20th century
that school was right and good and natural, and the absence of it was heathen
and ignorant and unthinkable.
Sandra Dodd
______________________________
http://expage.com/RadicalUnschooling
______________________________
______________________________
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Johanna
I think structure can be a good
thing, even in unschooling, if it what the learner wants. My daughter is a good
example of this. She has asked me to give her assignments in anatomy. She wants
to be a paramedic and feels she needs it right now. you are giving the ability
to control his time the way he wants.
If your husband is in college
courses to become a teacher, he must be getting messages that are completely
arbitrary to what you want to do. Has he actually forbidden you
to unschool, or is he just uncomfortable with it?He might need to see
"results" before he feels ok about Ryland being unschooled. Do the other ps
teachers who homeschool now unschool, or do they use a curriculum? If they
unschool, they could be allies in helping your husband understand.
Johanna
----- Original Message -----From: allisongoldstein@...Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 3:27 PMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: I need direction!Hi Johanna,
Thanks to you and everyone else for all their wonderful responses to
my request! I'm still working my way through them all and I'm really
enjoying them. As I read all your thoughts, I'm getting more
comfortable with the idea of defining with my son what "unschooling"
means to us. He's a very wise 6-year-old and I've always been able
to include him in the process of decision-making.
Now, to answer specifically a few of your questions.
You asked, "Is Unschooling what Ryland was asking you for in the
first place?"
Ryland has wanted to be homeschooled since he could talk. I was
always resistant, wasn't something I thought I wanted to do or would
be good at. Since we've been home in this modified program, I've
discovered just how good I am at it and how much more I want of it.
Ryland has said he wants to be home all the time and I believe him.
As far as "unschooling", I'm not sure either of us has defined it
well enough to say we want it. Although, like I said in my original
letter, I have parented Ryland in a way that makes unschooling seem
to be a natural progression.
You asked, "Does he think he'll be doing nothing all day long?"
At this point, since Ryland was in public school for 1 1/2 years and
is still now in workshops two days a week, I don't think he's ready
for absolutely no structure. I would have to wean him from it. But,
to some degree, I'm realizing that Ryland likes structure. He is a
rule-follower just like mom! So, as I begin to define unschooling in
our lives, I believe that it will include structure, but structure
that Ry and I define, not others. Does that make sense?
You asked, "Does your husband feel a standard curriculum guarantees
results?"
Yes, yes, yes! At the same time we were making the decision to take
Ry out of public school, my husband made the decision to return to
school to get his teaching credential. He currently owns a record
store (24+ years) and is looking for a change. What perfection that
we are moving out of the school system and into it simultaneously.
We actually know a couple male ps teachers whose wives homeshcool
their children.
You asked, "Did you feel satisfied with your school experience when
you were growing up?
At the time, yes. Looking back, no. What school did provide for me
was the stability and predictability that I desprately needed as a
child. There was a lot of chaos in my home and I can't imagine not
having school to go to. But, where I believe the school did fail me
was especially in their approach to math. At that time, they didn't
teach concepts, they taught "how" to do math. It wasn't until
adulthood when I began using math in my own work that I discovered
that I'm reeeeeally good at math. I wish I'd known it sooner.
Thanks again for your thoughtful response. I look forward to getting
to know you all.
Love,
Allison
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Bobbie
how silly. Jesus had to go to school so you do too.
blah blah blah.
that's all I have to say.
Jesus (and all children in bible times) = unschoolers.
so there.
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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blah blah blah.
that's all I have to say.
Jesus (and all children in bible times) = unschoolers.
so there.
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In a message dated 4/1/01 3:21:50 PM,
> allisongoldstein@... writes:
>
> <<
> That's not what I've gotten out of that story in the
> bible. >>
>
> We weren't reading the Bible, we were reading a
> retelling of the story in a
> book from the 1920's or 1930's--a series of kids'
> literature books.
>
> Here's what the Bible says:
>
> [41] Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at
> the feast of the
> passover.
> [42] And when he was twelve years old, they went up
> to Jerusalem after the
> custom of the feast.
> [43] And when they had fulfilled the days, as they
> returned, the child Jesus
> tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his
> mother knew not of it.
> [44] But they, supposing him to have been in the
> company, went a day's
> journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk
> and acquaintance.
> [45] And when they found him not, they turned back
> again to Jerusalem,
> seeking him.
> [46] And it came to pass, that after three days they
> found him in the temple,
> sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing
> them, and asking them
> questions.
> [47] And all that heard him were astonished at his
> understanding and answers.
> [48] And when they saw him, they were amazed: and
> his mother said unto him,
> Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy
> father and I have sought
> thee sorrowing.
> [49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought
> me? wist ye not that I
> must be about my Father's business?
> [50] And they understood not the saying which he
> spake unto them.
> [51] And he went down with them, and came to
> Nazareth, and was subject unto
> them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her
> heart.
> [52] And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and
> in favour with God and
> man.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
> What that book I was reading Holly said was that
> Jesus had to go to school,
> and spoke of the trip to Jerusalem as a field trip.
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
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