Collette Mattingly

Juli,
 
I used to worry so much about too much tv, computer, etc. It was really an internal struggle for me.  Then I just realised that my son is really advanced and he doesn't even watch that much tv, computer, etc.  I just was afraid he would.  So I gave it up.  Now he rarely watches tv and as for the computer, I like to get him some more advanced CD-Roms so he'll play MORE.  What you resist persists.  Just don't worry about it.  Our kids are gonna turn out great.  BTW, if anyone knows of any really great CDs I'd love to hear about them. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Erin Sutka
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hi Juli,
 
Welcome to the group.
 
*1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time?*
 
We don't limit computer time here, my children are younger 3 & 4, however they have to fight me to get onto the computer :) I may be doing the wrong thing by not limiting but they seem to limit themselves pretty well.  They will get tired of it and will decide to go and colour or read or something.  I do limit tv time though, they also only watch pbs when they do watch it.  They don't know any different so that's ok for now. 
 
As for your second question, it really doesn't apply to me yet as my children don't read yet.  When we go to the library we do check that their books that they choose are age appropriate for them, perhaps that is too much control on my part, but it makes us feel more comfortable about that.  MY dh was very much into sci fi books when he was a kid and I don't see us limiting that when the kids are able to read and comprehend them.  It sounds like your son really enjoys them and the fact that he is enjoying reading is wonderful, banning those particular books may make him lose his joy in reading which would be much worse then him reading some trash ;) 
 
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
 
Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

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Judie C. Rall

> Juli,
> You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children in the way
> that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is very clear on this.

For the record, the Bible says "Train up a child in the way he
should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it."

The phrase "in the way he should go" literally means "according to
his own way." It refers to training the child according to his own
individual needs or design. It does NOT mean we have to control
everything they do. Children learn best, and the learning is most
permanent, when children come to conclusions on their own based
upon their own experience. Sometimes that means we have to let
them do it wrong and make mistakes. It doesn't mean we need to
control them either. Jesus never controlled anybody. He loved and
encouraged people, and allowed them to make their own choices.


Judie

Elizabeth Hill

>Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)

We watch Star Trek Voyager nearly every day, and I have come to the
opposite conclusion. Sci-fi is a very powerful dramatic device for
creating situations that illuminate ethical issues. (This does not
necessarily apply to Star Wars spin-off books.)

Most of the adults I know who read a lot read plenty of genre junk. (Or
genre good stuff.) I don't know any who only read classic literature. My
brother reads a lot of sci-fi, my mom perpetually reads mysteries, and I
confess to sometimes reading steamy historical romance novels.)

(For the record: I also eat potato chips.)

Betsy

P.S. (Anyone want to recommend some good sci-fi to me? I've finished
reading all of Lois McMasters Bujold's books, and I'm going through
withdrawal.)

yuli womie

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Erin Sutka

Hi Juli,
 
Welcome to the group.
 
*1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time?*
 
We don't limit computer time here, my children are younger 3 & 4, however they have to fight me to get onto the computer :) I may be doing the wrong thing by not limiting but they seem to limit themselves pretty well.  They will get tired of it and will decide to go and colour or read or something.  I do limit tv time though, they also only watch pbs when they do watch it.  They don't know any different so that's ok for now. 
 
As for your second question, it really doesn't apply to me yet as my children don't read yet.  When we go to the library we do check that their books that they choose are age appropriate for them, perhaps that is too much control on my part, but it makes us feel more comfortable about that.  MY dh was very much into sci fi books when he was a kid and I don't see us limiting that when the kids are able to read and comprehend them.  It sounds like your son really enjoys them and the fact that he is enjoying reading is wonderful, banning those particular books may make him lose his joy in reading which would be much worse then him reading some trash ;) 
 
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
 
Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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Vaughnde Edwards

Juli,
You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children in the way that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is very clear on this. I don't know if you are a christian family or not, but in either case your concerns are valid because they are born of your love for your children. My daughter is indeed obsessive about the television. I am the same way about the computer. We made a deal to limit our television and computer times down to an hour each day with allowances for special times or special programs. You can sit down with the kids and make an agreement that they can do maybe an hour on pharoah and maybe half an hour on smileys or whatever that one is. Do the same thing with the books. Say he can read his Star Wars book for a couple hours if he also reads a nature book, or some other book for twice the amount of time he reads the star wars books. You can also have him build models of the ships, write his own sci-fi play, etc instead of just reading alone. I am having the same problem with the Harry Potter books. She can read it, provided she also reads some other books from the library as well. WE also add bible reading and prayer time to our day.
Jessica
 
Vaughnde Lee
Missoula, Montana
http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie <yuliwomie@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:08 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text


Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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Vicki A. Dennis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughnde Edwards" <stampinbookworm@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!


Juli,
You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children in the way
that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is very clear on this.

*******
Actually, she IS sliding into the control freak range. If you wish to argue
that being very controlling is a positive attribute or a duty, then do so.
But it is not honest to deny that authoritarian control ("control freak")
status is being sought.

In other words, argue that being a control freak is a good thing; don't accept
that it is negative but deny that folks are experiencing it.

Vicki

unschooling.com

Hi Julie! Welcome!


> Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
> and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
> half, since I took them out of public school. We
> decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
> reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

Unschooling is a wonderful journey. It sometimes takes a whole year to find
the rhythm and stride that will work for your family, and even then it
changes as the children grow and mature.


> 1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
> kids love the computer, and are on it all the time.

We don't limit them here. We are a housefull of geeks and wannabe geeks
though. ;)

> feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
> ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
> playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
> faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
> playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
> But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
> that unschooling is about everything being learning,
> nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
> computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
> has encountered this situation.

As one who has her computer on from the time I wake up until the time I go
to bed, maybe I'm not the one to ask. :) But we seem to go through spurts
here. Play a great deal, than outside beckons. We went through a board and
card game phase during the winter. I became very tired of playing Payday
and Risk Chess and Risk are still the games they play with Dad.

Are they refusing to go outside? Are the games interferring with any other
part of their lives?
>
> 2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
> unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
> They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
> being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
> sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
> scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
> I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
> I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
> with.

Why do you consider Sci-Fi trash? Can you pinpoint why you came to believe
this?

I'm not understanding the worry over the scary parts, if you know he would
stop as soon as something began to bother him?

> I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
> we're guides and are to put interesting things in
> their path, but what about taking things out of their
> paths?

Hmmm....There are things that I have not brought to their attention at
certain times. I don't feel the need to discuss certain topics with my
young ones yet. So, I guess I do agree that by the nature of parenthood I
keep some issues out of their path until later, or they find them on their
own. If my child was spending 13 hours a day on the computer, or 13 hours a
day reading or 13 hours a day doing just any one thing I would feel the
desire to broaden their horizons. I'm not sure I would feel the same if
they were doing 13 hours of housework/yard work every day, but since that
isn't likely to happen I don't worry about that one either.

Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
> books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
> that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?
>
> Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
> I'm being a control freak. :)

That's what these lists and message boards are best at, showing ourselves to
ourselves. ;) The next thing to do is examine why you want to control these
things. Limits and control are not dirty words, but parents have to be very
careful and completely aware of why they are doing what they are doing.
Moving into the freak area is not good. <G>


LisaKK

[email protected]

Hi Juli,
Welcome to the list.

*I* think my dd spends too much time watching TV. MY dd and dh think
I spend too much time on the computer............. *I* am sure i
dont spend too much time on the computer!!!

I am not a controll freak - just the opposite. I have tried to bring
all my kids up to be independant and to think for themselves. This
includes how much time they spend watching TV.

This doesnt mean I dont freek out when my dd sits and watches Tv for
a whole week - I do, and I come here and complain about it. However,
more than often, she finds some thing more constructive to do the
next week.

As for reading. Does it really matter what a child reads (within
reason of course)as long as they read..... My 30yr old son, and my
husband, do not read. I have never seen either read a novel. Both
CAN read, but only read if they need to know something. Both own
their own small businesses.

We all have our own opinion on TV and Computer usage. So I think you
have to do what you are comforable with.
Marianne

Tracy Oldfield

> Juli,
> You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children
> in the way that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is
> very clear on this. I don't know if you are a christian family or not,
> but in either case your concerns are valid because they are born of
> your love for your children. My daughter is indeed obsessive about the
> television. I am the same way about the computer. We made a deal to
> limit our television and computer times down to an hour each day with
> allowances for special times or special programs. You can sit down
> with the kids and make an agreement that they can do maybe an hour on
> pharoah and maybe half an hour on smileys or whatever that one is. Do
> the same thing with the books. Say he can read his Star Wars book for
> a couple hours if he also reads a nature book, or some other book for
> twice the amount of time he reads the star wars books. You can also
> have him build models of the ships, write his own sci-fi play, etc
> instead of just reading alone. I am having the same problem with the
> Harry Potter books. She can read it, provided she also reads some
> other books from the library as well. WE also add bible reading and
> prayer time to our day. Jessica
>
> Vaughnde Lee
> Missoula, Montana
> http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
>

I'm sorry, but this really isn't unschooling. What's the point of
saying they can follow their interests and trusting them to know
what they want (which for me is the whole point, what they learn is
far less important than that they enjoy it, and know themselves
from it) if then you go about controlling their access to those things
they want to do? Why mess about with someone's love of and joy
in reading by telling them they have to read something they don't
want to? Not my idea of unschooling.

Tracy
PS Some Sci-fi books are trash, but that's the fun! And some are
great literature, Lord of the Rings was voted the UK's no1 20thC
book last year, and thousands of people voted. I got belittled in
school for reading fantasy novels (David Eddings and Anne
McCaffrey) cos the others thought they were rubbish. I never found
Sweet Valley High all that challenging or appealing, but I didn't say
so...

Tracy Oldfield

Hi Juli,
Welcome to the list.

*I* think my dd spends too much time watching TV. MY
dd and dh think 
I spend too much time on the computer............. *I*
am sure i 
dont spend too much time on the computer!!!

I am not a controll freak - just the opposite. I have
tried to bring 
all my kids up to be independant and to think for
themselves. This 
includes how much time they spend watching TV.

This doesnt mean I dont freek out when my dd sits and
watches Tv for 
a whole week - I do, and I come here and complain about
it. However, 
more than often, she finds some thing more constructive
to do the 
next week.

Marianne, I'm ROFL laughing at this!! If only she'd
been here acouple of weeks ago, huh? LOL

Tracy

unschooling.com

<<My daughter is indeed obsessive about the television. I am the same way
about the computer. We made a deal to limit our television and computer
times down to an hour each day with allowances for special times or special
programs. >>

This kind of mutual discussion is an amazing thing. This takes us out of the
realm of I know best and you have to do what I say, irrespective of what you
see me doing. I think it only works well though, we all parties agree there
is a problem in the first place. Of my 4 children only one could be
considered having a problem with screens (TV, computer, video games) and for
him, the screens aren't a problem, they are what serve him best right now.
Now..... the children could legitmately say *I* have a computer problem,
since it appears my cooking is impaired by being here. What they do not
understand is my ability to cook is impared no matter what. <G>

<<. You can also have him build models of the ships, write his own sci-fi
play, etc instead of just reading alone.>>

I have trouble with the phrase *you can have him* and it may just be a case
of semantics. If I tried to have my chidlren build models of ships, they
would run far, far away. <G> I help extend their interests though, both by
bringing all kinds of things home and taking them all kinds of places.
Sometimes these phases for things like Sci-Fi are just like those todder and
young child phases, you don't really know what they are leading up to until
they jump the chasm and tell you all about it. Then your jaw drops to the
floor and you wondered what you were worrying about.


Lisa

A. Yates

What age is your son...Just wondering since many CD's we have are for 8-9 and younger.
A

Collette Mattingly wrote:

Juli, I used to worry so much about too much tv, computer, etc. It was really an internal struggle for me.  Then I just realised that my son is really advanced and he doesn't even watch that much tv, computer, etc.  I just was afraid he would.  So I gave it up.  Now he rarely watches tv and as for the computer, I like to get him some more advanced CD-Roms so he'll play MORE.  What you resist persists.  Just don't worry about it.  Our kids are gonna turn out great.  BTW, if anyone knows of any really great CDs I'd love to hear about them. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!
 Hi Juli,Welcome to the group.*1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time?* We don't limit computer time here, my children are younger 3 & 4, however they have to fight me to get onto the computer :) I may be doing the wrong thing by not limiting but they seem to limit themselves pretty well.  They will get tired of it and will decide to go and colour or read or something.  I do limit tv time though, they also only watch pbs when they do watch it.  They don't know any different so that's ok for now. As for your second question, it really doesn't apply to me yet as my children don't read yet.  When we go to the library we do check that their books that they choose are age appropriate for them, perhaps that is too much control on my part, but it makes us feel more comfortable about that.  MY dh was very much into sci fi books when he was a kid and I don't see us limiting that when the kids are able to read and comprehend them.  It sounds like your son really enjoys them and the fact that he is enjoying reading is wonderful, banning those particular books may make him lose his joy in reading which would be much worse then him reading some trash ;) Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!
 
Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

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Collette Mattingly

My son is only four.  By more advanced I mean beyond Freddi Fish and Pajama Sam. They are the only CDs we've found that are creative.  All the "educational" ones seem too school-y and are just not that fun.  Thanks. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Yates
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

What age is your son...Just wondering since many CD's we have are for 8-9 and younger.
A

Collette Mattingly wrote:

Juli, I used to worry so much about too much tv, computer, etc. It was really an internal struggle for me.  Then I just realised that my son is really advanced and he doesn't even watch that much tv, computer, etc.  I just was afraid he would.  So I gave it up.  Now he rarely watches tv and as for the computer, I like to get him some more advanced CD-Roms so he'll play MORE.  What you resist persists.  Just don't worry about it.  Our kids are gonna turn out great.  BTW, if anyone knows of any really great CDs I'd love to hear about them. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!
 Hi Juli,Welcome to the group.*1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time?* We don't limit computer time here, my children are younger 3 & 4, however they have to fight me to get onto the computer :) I may be doing the wrong thing by not limiting but they seem to limit themselves pretty well.  They will get tired of it and will decide to go and colour or read or something.  I do limit tv time though, they also only watch pbs when they do watch it.  They don't know any different so that's ok for now. As for your second question, it really doesn't apply to me yet as my children don't read yet.  When we go to the library we do check that their books that they choose are age appropriate for them, perhaps that is too much control on my part, but it makes us feel more comfortable about that.  MY dh was very much into sci fi books when he was a kid and I don't see us limiting that when the kids are able to read and comprehend them.  It sounds like your son really enjoys them and the fact that he is enjoying reading is wonderful, banning those particular books may make him lose his joy in reading which would be much worse then him reading some trash ;) Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!
 
Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

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Hi Juli,

And welcome!

You're not being a control freak if you can question your actions! You'll no
doubt have responses from both 'camps' here about limit/no limit and what you
said yourself about all situations being opportunity for education is true.

Just remember, whatever you and your children decide, if they're reading
they're reading, if they're operating equipment, they're operating equipment,
if they're playing, they're playing. They are learning from all these
scenarios whatever they are reading/operating/playing. You may decide you
don't want to limit time on certain activities, but content. Maybe you would
feel uncomfortable with your children reading porn for example. (Actually, as
an aside, does one 'read' porn?!)

Good luck anyway!
Caroline

Tracy Oldfield

P.S. (Anyone want to recommend some good sci-fi to me?
I've finished
reading all of Lois McMasters Bujold's books, and I'm
going through
withdrawal.)

Never read any of hers, but for 'froth' I like the
David Eddings and Anne McCaffrey books I mentioned
earlier (The 'Garion' ones are more 'frothy' than the
'Sparhawk' ones) or for mind-blowingly complex and
wierd literature, Iain M Banks (he does 'straight' work
as Iain Banks, which are supposedly more wierd than the
sci-fi...) is utterly amazing! Oh, and if you want to
be clued-up before the first film is released in
December (possibly earlier over there...) then you
cuold always read the Lord of the Rings books, and The
Hobbit :-)

I also read trashy spy novels :-)

Tracy

Tracy Oldfield

(Actually, as 
an aside, does one 'read' porn?!) 

Good luck anyway!
Caroline

Er, umm, some of the stories are quite funny, in a 'oh, no!!!' kind
of way...

Tracy *sheepish grin*

Collette Mattingly

Thank God I'm not the only one who just didn't get Sweet Valley High.  In fifth grade you think there's something wrong with you if you can't stomach that crap.-collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanna
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Somebody else remembers Anne McCaffrey!! I loved her books. Of course I loved Tolkien too. My nine year old son can hardly wait for the first Lord of the Rings movies to come out this year. I think I infected him with a love of science fiction.
Johanna
PS Sweet Valley High....urgh....
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

> Juli,
> You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children
> in the way that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is
> very clear on this. I don't know if you are a christian family or not,
> but in either case your concerns are valid because they are born of
> your love for your children. My daughter is indeed obsessive about the
> television. I am the same way about the computer. We made a deal to
> limit our television and computer times down to an hour each day with
> allowances for special times or special programs. You can sit down
> with the kids and make an agreement that they can do maybe an hour on
> pharoah and maybe half an hour on smileys or whatever that one is. Do
> the same thing with the books. Say he can read his Star Wars book for
> a couple hours if he also reads a nature book, or some other book for
> twice the amount of time he reads the star wars books. You can also
> have him build models of the ships, write his own sci-fi play, etc
> instead of just reading alone. I am having the same problem with the
> Harry Potter books. She can read it, provided she also reads some
> other books from the library as well. WE also add bible reading and
> prayer time to our day. Jessica
>
> Vaughnde Lee
> Missoula, Montana
> http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
>

I'm sorry, but this really isn't unschooling.  What's the point of
saying they can follow their interests and trusting them to know
what they want (which for me is the whole point, what they learn is
far less important than that they enjoy it, and know themselves
from it) if then you go about controlling their access to those things
they want to do?  Why mess about with someone's love of and joy
in reading by telling them they have to read something they don't
want to?  Not my idea of unschooling.

Tracy
PS  Some Sci-fi books are trash, but that's the fun!  And some are
great literature, Lord of the Rings was voted the UK's no1 20thC
book last year, and thousands of people voted.  I got belittled in
school for reading fantasy novels (David Eddings and Anne
McCaffrey) cos the others thought they were rubbish.  I never found
Sweet Valley High all that challenging or appealing, but I didn't say
so...


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Collette Mattingly

Thanks, Lisa!
----- Original Message -----
From: LisaBugg
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!


<<My son is only four.  By more advanced I mean beyond Freddi Fish and
Pajama Sam. They are the only CDs we've found that are creative.  All the
"educational" ones seem too school-y and are just not that fun.  Thanks. -
Collette>>

Collete take a look at these, some of them are old you might have to hunt
for them

Gizmos an Gadgets by the Learning Company.  3 of mine played this for hours
and hours. Science

The Logical Journey of the Zoombini's - Borderbund -  Outstanding math game,
with no numberes. I plaed with my kids.

Zap - edmark Sort of like Gizmos and Gadgets but slightly different topics
Not quite as good as G&G

Any of the Living Books -- He can hear books read in another language, mess
around with all the hidden things in the pictures.

ZooZillions and Carnival Countdown  -Edmark now bundled together as a *math
package*

Any and all of the Reader Rabbit programs.  They are a blend of phonics and
sight words.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

LisaKK



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Johanna

Juli,
Most of the games we have for computer are "educational" in one way or the other, but sometimes we all need down time. I, as an adult have been known to play solitare or other games when the task I am working on gets frustrating. After a while I can go back to the task and often see things differently. If you feel they are really in front of the computer too much, suggest someting else that might interest them. Sometimes we need ideas too. As for the science fiction, go easy on him. He is reading and that will only improve his reading ability. Science fiction books can also have deep thought built in. I remember reading Farenheit 451 when I was around twelve and saw the damage blind obedience and not questioning or standing up for what is right can do. Many science fiction books show different groups of people working together for a common goal. Good concepts both. remember we all learn in different ways. Guide gently
Johanna
----- Original Message -----
From: yuli womie
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

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[email protected]

-
> 
> Marianne, I'm ROFL laughing at this!! If only she'd
> been here acouple of weeks ago, huh? LOL
>
> Tracy

Tracy
I *know*. But I did say i come here and complain!!!

Marianne - who is feeling much happire this week!!

Johanna

And the ones who received a blessing were the ones who sought him on their own accord and chose to follow his way
No one ever learned by force. My son says you can make me do it, but you can't make me like it.
Johanna 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!



> Juli,
> You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children in the way
> that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is very clear on this.

For the record, the Bible says "Train up a child in the way he
should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it."

The phrase "in the way he should go" literally means "according to
his own way."  It refers to training the child according to his own
individual needs or design.  It does NOT mean we have to control
everything they do.  Children learn best, and the learning is most
permanent, when children come to conclusions on their own based
upon their own experience.  Sometimes that means we have to let
them do it wrong and make mistakes.  It doesn't mean we need to
control them either.  Jesus never controlled anybody.  He loved and
encouraged people, and allowed them to make their own choices.


Judie


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Johanna

Collette,
 How old is your son?
Johanna
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Juli,
 
I used to worry so much about too much tv, computer, etc. It was really an internal struggle for me.  Then I just realised that my son is really advanced and he doesn't even watch that much tv, computer, etc.  I just was afraid he would.  So I gave it up.  Now he rarely watches tv and as for the computer, I like to get him some more advanced CD-Roms so he'll play MORE.  What you resist persists.  Just don't worry about it.  Our kids are gonna turn out great.  BTW, if anyone knows of any really great CDs I'd love to hear about them. - Collette
----- Original Message -----
From: Erin Sutka
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hi Juli,
 
Welcome to the group.
 
*1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time?*
 
We don't limit computer time here, my children are younger 3 & 4, however they have to fight me to get onto the computer :) I may be doing the wrong thing by not limiting but they seem to limit themselves pretty well.  They will get tired of it and will decide to go and colour or read or something.  I do limit tv time though, they also only watch pbs when they do watch it.  They don't know any different so that's ok for now. 
 
As for your second question, it really doesn't apply to me yet as my children don't read yet.  When we go to the library we do check that their books that they choose are age appropriate for them, perhaps that is too much control on my part, but it makes us feel more comfortable about that.  MY dh was very much into sci fi books when he was a kid and I don't see us limiting that when the kids are able to read and comprehend them.  It sounds like your son really enjoys them and the fact that he is enjoying reading is wonderful, banning those particular books may make him lose his joy in reading which would be much worse then him reading some trash ;) 
 
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
 
Erin
esutka@... <mailto:esutka@...>
-----Original Message-----
From: yuli womie [mailto:yuliwomie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

Hello! My name's Juli and I'm homeschooling my ds, 10
and dd, 8. We've been homeschooling for a year and a
half, since I took them out of public school. We
decided a couple weeks ago to try unschooling, after
reading a lot about it. I have a couple questions:

1. I'm wondering if anyone limits computer time? My
kids love the computer, and are on it all the time. I
feel ok when I see them playing Pharoah (a game about
ancient Egypt) but they're also spending a lot of time
playing Smiloid, a silly game of splashing smiley
faces with paint. Now, I tell myself it's ok, they're
playing that together, it requires cooperation, etc.
But part of me feels like it's wasting time. I *know*
that unschooling is about everything being learning,
nothing is a waste of time. But the kids are on the
computer for hours a day. So I wonder if anyone else
has encountered this situation.

2. My son is a very advanced reader, but since our
unschooling started, all he reads is Star Wars books.
They're adult sci-fi, and I worry a little about there
being "scary" stuff in there, though he's VERY
sensitive and would stop reading if he did get
scared.Also, I have this bias that sci-fi is trash. :)
I have no intention of censoring his reading, because
I believe it's for him to find what he's comfortable
with.

I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
we're guides and are to put interesting things in
their path, but what about taking things out of their
paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

Hmm, even writing this I feel like I have my answer.
I'm being a control freak. :)

Juli

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Johanna

Somebody else remembers Anne McCaffrey!! I loved her books. Of course I loved Tolkien too. My nine year old son can hardly wait for the first Lord of the Rings movies to come out this year. I think I infected him with a love of science fiction.
Johanna
PS Sweet Valley High....urgh....
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] new to this list: Hi!

> Juli,
> You aren't being a control freak. Our job is to train up our children
> in the way that they should go..even in the small things. The bible is
> very clear on this. I don't know if you are a christian family or not,
> but in either case your concerns are valid because they are born of
> your love for your children. My daughter is indeed obsessive about the
> television. I am the same way about the computer. We made a deal to
> limit our television and computer times down to an hour each day with
> allowances for special times or special programs. You can sit down
> with the kids and make an agreement that they can do maybe an hour on
> pharoah and maybe half an hour on smileys or whatever that one is. Do
> the same thing with the books. Say he can read his Star Wars book for
> a couple hours if he also reads a nature book, or some other book for
> twice the amount of time he reads the star wars books. You can also
> have him build models of the ships, write his own sci-fi play, etc
> instead of just reading alone. I am having the same problem with the
> Harry Potter books. She can read it, provided she also reads some
> other books from the library as well. WE also add bible reading and
> prayer time to our day. Jessica
>
> Vaughnde Lee
> Missoula, Montana
> http://www.stampinbookworm.eboard.com
>

I'm sorry, but this really isn't unschooling.  What's the point of
saying they can follow their interests and trusting them to know
what they want (which for me is the whole point, what they learn is
far less important than that they enjoy it, and know themselves
from it) if then you go about controlling their access to those things
they want to do?  Why mess about with someone's love of and joy
in reading by telling them they have to read something they don't
want to?  Not my idea of unschooling.

Tracy
PS  Some Sci-fi books are trash, but that's the fun!  And some are
great literature, Lord of the Rings was voted the UK's no1 20thC
book last year, and thousands of people voted.  I got belittled in
school for reading fantasy novels (David Eddings and Anne
McCaffrey) cos the others thought they were rubbish.  I never found
Sweet Valley High all that challenging or appealing, but I didn't say
so...


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DiamondAir

> From: yuli womie <yuliwomie@...>
> I guess my 2 questions are the same: I understand
> we're guides and are to put interesting things in
> their path, but what about taking things out of their
> paths? Does anyone LIMIT things like computers, sci-fi
> books, videos? We don't have TV at all, never have, so
> that's not a problem. But what about other stuff?

The questions I usually ask myself in these sorts of situations are - is
what my child is doing life-threatening, health-threatening, likely to hurt
themself or others, or morally dangerous?? If not, I try really hard not to
mess with it. So in answer to your question, yes I do think that at some
point we might limit things, if I found they met the above criteria. So in
other words, we might limit computer time if my kid spent so much time in
front of the computer that they became a pale and flabby worm (health
threatening), or if they were conversing on the internet with potential
child molesters or some such outrageous thing that was dangerous (hard to
imagine, but still...). Or if they were reading books or magazines that we
felt were detrimental to their burgeoning psyches, sure we'd limit it. I
think every parent has limits, whether they like to admit it or not, and I
don't necessarily think some limits are a bad thing. We all draw lines in
the sand, the difference being where those lines are drawn. Personally, I
think it's a good idea to draw your lines where they matter the most, and
where you can give maximum freedom to your kids to enjoy the experiences in
life that they are drawn to. I don't believe that unschooling means
free-for-all, to me it means that I follow my childrens' lead and try to
gently guide them where I see them reaching boundaries that I think are
important. For instance, for us that meant getting rid of the TV this last
year. It was obviously negatively impacting our lives on a daily basis, so
it went down to the basement and has not really been missed.

It seems to me that you're taking an important step in challenging your own
assumptions about what is "worthwhile" and what is a "waste of time". In
unschooling our children, we sometimes have to put in a lot of work
deschooling ourselves. After all, most of us grow up with the assumptions
that our culture and schooling have indoctrinated us with. Things have to be
"educational" or "useful" (as defined by someone else's arbitrary standards)
in order to have value. Letting go of these assumptions can be really
difficult. For me, I've found that always keeping a mind-opening book handy
for reading and inspiration helps to keep my own horizons ever expanding
(anything by John Holt, John Taylor Gatto, Grace Llewellyn, among others are
good places to start).

I would bet Bill Gates doesn't feel that he blew off too much time by
playing on computers, that Matisse is glad he "wasted" time cutting up bits
of paper and pasting them into collages, that Edison trifled away his hours
tinkering with things most people saw no use for, that Asimov spent his
writing hours in the realm of "trashy" Sci Fi, etc. etc. :-)

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I told you I was going to grow up to be a
weirdo"
and Asa (10/5/99) Who says "Fishy swim!" at the aquarium, her favorite place
in the world
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

LisaBugg

<<My son is only four. By more advanced I mean beyond Freddi Fish and
Pajama Sam. They are the only CDs we've found that are creative. All the
"educational" ones seem too school-y and are just not that fun. Thanks. -
Collette>>

Collete take a look at these, some of them are old you might have to hunt
for them

Gizmos an Gadgets by the Learning Company. 3 of mine played this for hours
and hours. Science

The Logical Journey of the Zoombini's - Borderbund - Outstanding math game,
with no numberes. I plaed with my kids.

Zap - edmark Sort of like Gizmos and Gadgets but slightly different topics
Not quite as good as G&G

Any of the Living Books -- He can hear books read in another language, mess
around with all the hidden things in the pictures.

ZooZillions and Carnival Countdown -Edmark now bundled together as a *math
package*

Any and all of the Reader Rabbit programs. They are a blend of phonics and
sight words.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

LisaKK

Tracy Oldfield

> My son is only four. By more advanced I mean beyond Freddi Fish and
> Pajama Sam. They are the only CDs we've found that are creative. All
> the "educational" ones seem too school-y and are just not that fun.
> Thanks. - Collette

My kids (5 and 4yo) like all sorts of stuff, from Art Attack (a UK
telly program tie-in, very cool art stuff including cartoons) through
the FPS from Star-Trek (I kid you not, but I only set up the tutorial
levels for them) to Dungeon Keeper, which is educational in the use
of resources and personnel, if you don't have enough gold, your
creatures don't train and get angry when you can't pay them, and
strategy, planning and forward thinking. Oh, and they like it :-) I'm
looking on the desk to see what's being used apart from that... a
couple of DK 'explorer' disks and Dinosaur Hunter, Rollercoaster
Tycoon (planning and physics, if your coaster track doesn't come
down before the car runs out of momentum, it crashes...) and
Creatures 2... oh, and a Chicken Run 'fun-pack' CD, it came cheap
with a newspaper. We have an 'educational' DK CD, but it hasn't
been used for ages. Hmm, maybe it's time for a return...

My problem with the telly is that I don't like watching the tv for the
sake of it, so i tend not to watch when they're watching unless it's
something I really like, like Little Bear, or a vid I haven't seen for a
while. But it's my problem more than theirs, apart from I don't get
into discussions about what they're watching...

Tracy

Tracy Oldfield

> Thank God I'm not the only one who just didn't get Sweet Valley High.
> In fifth grade you think there's something wrong with you if you can't
> stomach that crap.-collette

Oh. I 'got' it, I got the point of it, but I think I was a bit more, er,
'advanced' than that when they were 'in' I mean there's actual sex
in the other stuff I mentioned, even if it's of the snog-and-close-the-
door type, not graphic, but you know it's there...

What can I say without incriminating myself further...

Tracy

Tracy Oldfield

> 
I agree with Betsy. I am watching Babylon 5 for the
third or fourth
time and they certainly face ethical issues there.
Trivia note :
did you know that the first interracial kiss on network
TV was on Star
Trek (the original series)? I'm not sure if the fact
that it took 
place in the future or that Uhura and Kirk were under
the control of
a mind-controlling alien that swayed the censors into
leaving it!

If you want I can go fish out the Shatner memoir book
with that bit in and tell you! I think it was the
scriptwriters saying 'It has to stay in!!!' as much as
anything...

Tracy
(whose house is full of ST stuff... oh, and a couple of
Discworld statuettes, I can't believe I didn't mention
Terry Pratchett!!!)

A. Yates

My kids are 8, 6 and 4. Here is what they love so far...
Reader Rabbits...any age appr., Edmarks Reading ones...They are on to
Lets Go Read 2., Math Journey, Dr Seuss Kindergarten, My First Amazing
World Explorer, Magic School Bus series (particularly under the earth,
The Jump Start Series, the Way Things Work, We love The Logical Journey
of the Zoombinis, I have shared this with other families, and the adults
get addicted too!, Living numbers, and Living Letters (these are still
ok for my 4 yr old daughter, but the older ones are a bit old., I Spy,
Kid Pix's Deluxe (a paint sort of program).
Hope this helps some.
Ann

BTW Collette, my dd's name is mattingly!