Unschoolers in preschool, was Re: Bonnie
DiamondAir
From: "Vaughnde Edwards" <stampinbookworm@...>
not unschooling. Additionally, I personally believe that preschools teach
unsocialization, not socialization. My son's best friend (who previously had
been at home his whole life with a SAHM) just started pre-school last month
and the change in his behavior has been amazing (not for the good). Last
night, my son told us "I don't want to play with XXX again. I don't like the
way he treats me anymore". The difference is that noticeable. On another
list I'm on, there has been a thread on bullying in preschool. Yes, it
starts early.
IMHO, segregating a bunch of kids of the same age in a place that they don't
have the freedom to leave results in some markedly anti-social behavior.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "Mom, maybe when you die they'll put you in a
natural history museum"
and Asa (10/5/99) who likes to dive headfirst into the swimming pool!
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
> What are you doing about preschool for your daughter? I've been planningto
> send the boys to preschool even though I don't intend to send them toschool.
> The learning to follow group directions a bit, other's routines, etc.seems
> like a positive addition to their life experience. Now as I think moreabout
> unschooling, I'm not sure it's congruent, though I still want to do it!I agree with what someone else said - this is where they'll learn schooling,
not unschooling. Additionally, I personally believe that preschools teach
unsocialization, not socialization. My son's best friend (who previously had
been at home his whole life with a SAHM) just started pre-school last month
and the change in his behavior has been amazing (not for the good). Last
night, my son told us "I don't want to play with XXX again. I don't like the
way he treats me anymore". The difference is that noticeable. On another
list I'm on, there has been a thread on bullying in preschool. Yes, it
starts early.
IMHO, segregating a bunch of kids of the same age in a place that they don't
have the freedom to leave results in some markedly anti-social behavior.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "Mom, maybe when you die they'll put you in a
natural history museum"
and Asa (10/5/99) who likes to dive headfirst into the swimming pool!
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Samantha Stopple
--- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
my dd to preschool when she turned 2 1/2 even though
we planned to unschool. I needed the space because ds
was born. It was a very constructive and well paid
more than just a baysitter in a time when I needed it.
My dd became very attached to all the teachers at her
preschool. She loves them all and still talks about
them. She got tons of positive energy from all the
teachers at a time when I was very low energy after
the birth of little brother.
The preschool had very little over control structure.
The practiced what is called divergent(I think this is
right) 'curiculum'. When they set up a project and the
kids wanted to go in a different direction from the
teachers beginning idea the teachers supported them in
it.
The teachers were also very respectful of all the kids
feelings. They also help the kids solve disputes
peacefully.
I think it was a very positive experience for my dd.
But just because it was for her doesn't mean I think
everyone should do it.
Kids don't need socialization which is forced (which
is what compulsory education is IMHO)but at some point
many kids like to be social because being social is
human nature. Preschool allowed my dd that outlet and
gave my tired my introverted self time to recharge
when I couldn't find homeschooling community.
Not all preschools are bad.
Samantha
__________________________________________________
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> From: "Vaughnde Edwards"I think this really depends upon the preschool. I sent
> <stampinbookworm@...>
> > What are you doing about preschool for your
> daughter? I've been planning
> to
> > send the boys to preschool even though I don't
> intend to send them to
> school.
> > The learning to follow group directions a bit,
> other's routines, etc.
> seems
> > like a positive addition to their life experience.
> Now as I think more
> about
> > unschooling, I'm not sure it's congruent, though
> I still want to do it!
>
>
>
> I agree with what someone else said - this is where
> they'll learn schooling,
> not unschooling. Additionally, I personally believe
> that preschools teach
> unsocialization, not socialization.
my dd to preschool when she turned 2 1/2 even though
we planned to unschool. I needed the space because ds
was born. It was a very constructive and well paid
more than just a baysitter in a time when I needed it.
My dd became very attached to all the teachers at her
preschool. She loves them all and still talks about
them. She got tons of positive energy from all the
teachers at a time when I was very low energy after
the birth of little brother.
The preschool had very little over control structure.
The practiced what is called divergent(I think this is
right) 'curiculum'. When they set up a project and the
kids wanted to go in a different direction from the
teachers beginning idea the teachers supported them in
it.
The teachers were also very respectful of all the kids
feelings. They also help the kids solve disputes
peacefully.
I think it was a very positive experience for my dd.
But just because it was for her doesn't mean I think
everyone should do it.
Kids don't need socialization which is forced (which
is what compulsory education is IMHO)but at some point
many kids like to be social because being social is
human nature. Preschool allowed my dd that outlet and
gave my tired my introverted self time to recharge
when I couldn't find homeschooling community.
Not all preschools are bad.
Samantha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Bobbie
I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself, Robin.
One of the major reasons I'm not putting my kids in
school. They are such lovely kids right now. I really
don't want to screw that up and a year from now look
back and go "What happened here??". I've seen it
happen to alot of other kids before. It's very sad.
Poor things don't stand a chance, comparitively. (Yes,
that's a word.) :)
-Bobbie
--- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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One of the major reasons I'm not putting my kids in
school. They are such lovely kids right now. I really
don't want to screw that up and a year from now look
back and go "What happened here??". I've seen it
happen to alot of other kids before. It's very sad.
Poor things don't stand a chance, comparitively. (Yes,
that's a word.) :)
-Bobbie
--- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
> From: "Vaughnde Edwards"__________________________________________________
> <stampinbookworm@...>
> > What are you doing about preschool for your
> daughter? I've been planning
> to
> > send the boys to preschool even though I don't
> intend to send them to
> school.
> > The learning to follow group directions a bit,
> other's routines, etc.
> seems
> > like a positive addition to their life experience.
> Now as I think more
> about
> > unschooling, I'm not sure it's congruent, though
> I still want to do it!
>
>
>
> I agree with what someone else said - this is where
> they'll learn schooling,
> not unschooling. Additionally, I personally believe
> that preschools teach
> unsocialization, not socialization. My son's best
> friend (who previously had
> been at home his whole life with a SAHM) just
> started pre-school last month
> and the change in his behavior has been amazing (not
> for the good). Last
> night, my son told us "I don't want to play with XXX
> again. I don't like the
> way he treats me anymore". The difference is that
> noticeable. On another
> list I'm on, there has been a thread on bullying in
> preschool. Yes, it
> starts early.
> IMHO, segregating a bunch of kids of the same age in
> a place that they don't
> have the freedom to leave results in some markedly
> anti-social behavior.
>
> Blue Skies!
> -Robin-
> Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "Mom, maybe when you die
> they'll put you in a
> natural history museum"
> and Asa (10/5/99) who likes to dive headfirst into
> the swimming pool!
> http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying
> Clevenger Family
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Bobbie
Good point, Samantha. I hadn't considered it. I also
want to say that I think a preschool would reallyl NOT
work for my kids or me, but I know it is a help to
some people. If you find the right one. The one you
used sounds nice. That divergent curiculum thing is
lovely sounding. Plus I truly know the meaning of
fatigue and being introverted so I can totally see
your point there. Glad it worked out for you and your
family the way it did and proved to help instead of
hinder.
-Bobbie
--- Samantha Stopple <sammimag@...> wrote:
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want to say that I think a preschool would reallyl NOT
work for my kids or me, but I know it is a help to
some people. If you find the right one. The one you
used sounds nice. That divergent curiculum thing is
lovely sounding. Plus I truly know the meaning of
fatigue and being introverted so I can totally see
your point there. Glad it worked out for you and your
family the way it did and proved to help instead of
hinder.
-Bobbie
--- Samantha Stopple <sammimag@...> wrote:
> The practiced what is called divergent(I think this__________________________________________________
> is
> right) 'curiculum'. When they set up a project and
> the
> kids wanted to go in a different direction from the
> teachers beginning idea the teachers supported them
> in
> it.
>
> The teachers were also very respectful of all the
> kids
> feelings. They also help the kids solve disputes
> peacefully.
>
> I think it was a very positive experience for my dd.
> But just because it was for her doesn't mean I think
> everyone should do it.
>
> Kids don't need socialization which is forced (which
> is what compulsory education is IMHO)but at some
> point
> many kids like to be social because being social is
> human nature. Preschool allowed my dd that outlet
> and
> gave my tired my introverted self time to recharge
> when I couldn't find homeschooling community.
>
> Not all preschools are bad.
>
> Samantha
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Mel Stiadle
That has happened with my son and daughter, ages 10
and 8 respectively. I should NEVER have enrolled them
in PS. Although they are still lovely children, I
feel their self confidence was undermined in school.
I am having a hard time trying to "deschool" them. My
son, in particular, is having trouble making the
transition from school to home even though he is all
for homeschooling. Any suggestions? I just started
this in January.
--- Bobbie <insomniaaks@...> wrote:
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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and 8 respectively. I should NEVER have enrolled them
in PS. Although they are still lovely children, I
feel their self confidence was undermined in school.
I am having a hard time trying to "deschool" them. My
son, in particular, is having trouble making the
transition from school to home even though he is all
for homeschooling. Any suggestions? I just started
this in January.
--- Bobbie <insomniaaks@...> wrote:
> I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself, Robin.__________________________________________________
>
> One of the major reasons I'm not putting my kids in
> school. They are such lovely kids right now. I
> really
> don't want to screw that up and a year from now look
> back and go "What happened here??". I've seen it
> happen to alot of other kids before. It's very sad.
> Poor things don't stand a chance, comparitively.
> (Yes,
> that's a word.) :)
> -Bobbie
> --- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
> > From: "Vaughnde Edwards"
> > <stampinbookworm@...>
> > > What are you doing about preschool for your
> > daughter? I've been planning
> > to
> > > send the boys to preschool even though I don't
> > intend to send them to
> > school.
> > > The learning to follow group directions a bit,
> > other's routines, etc.
> > seems
> > > like a positive addition to their life
> experience.
> > Now as I think more
> > about
> > > unschooling, I'm not sure it's congruent,
> though
> > I still want to do it!
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with what someone else said - this is
> where
> > they'll learn schooling,
> > not unschooling. Additionally, I personally
> believe
> > that preschools teach
> > unsocialization, not socialization. My son's best
> > friend (who previously had
> > been at home his whole life with a SAHM) just
> > started pre-school last month
> > and the change in his behavior has been amazing
> (not
> > for the good). Last
> > night, my son told us "I don't want to play with
> XXX
> > again. I don't like the
> > way he treats me anymore". The difference is that
> > noticeable. On another
> > list I'm on, there has been a thread on bullying
> in
> > preschool. Yes, it
> > starts early.
> > IMHO, segregating a bunch of kids of the same age
> in
> > a place that they don't
> > have the freedom to leave results in some markedly
> > anti-social behavior.
> >
> > Blue Skies!
> > -Robin-
> > Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "Mom, maybe when you
> die
> > they'll put you in a
> > natural history museum"
> > and Asa (10/5/99) who likes to dive headfirst into
> > the swimming pool!
> > http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying
> > Clevenger Family
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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Vaughnde Edwards
Sit down with your son and ask him to help you make up a
calendar. A weekly calendar. ASk him to help you set aside blocks of time in
that week for things he wants do to. Ask him if he wants to read, watch a
special program, watch a video, go to the library, etc and see how he does on
that. It will change from day to day. Tell him its ok if he doesn't plan every
single moment. IF a week is too much, sit down each evening and plan the next
day with him. Not too structured, but loose enough that he can learn to enjoy
himself.
Jessica
(Its a start in the right direction)
-----Original Message-----That has happened with my son and daughter, ages 10
From: Mel Stiadle <lizzieloo21@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschoolers in preschool, was Re: Bonnie
and 8 respectively. I should NEVER have enrolled them
in PS. Although they are still lovely children, I
feel their self confidence was undermined in school.
I am having a hard time trying to "deschool" them. My
son, in particular, is having trouble making the
transition from school to home even though he is all
for homeschooling. Any suggestions? I just started
this in January.
--- Bobbie <insomniaaks@...> wrote:
> I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself, Robin.
>
> One of the major reasons I'm not putting my kids in
> school. They are such lovely kids right now. I
> really
> don't want to screw that up and a year from now look
> back and go "What happened here??". I've seen it
> happen to alot of other kids before. It's very sad.
> Poor things don't stand a chance, comparitively.
> (Yes,
> that's a word.) :)
> -Bobbie
> --- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
> > From: "Vaughnde Edwards"
> > <stampinbookworm@...>
> > > What are you doing about preschool for your
> > daughter? I've been planning
> > to
> > > send the boys to preschool even though I don't
> > intend to send them to
> > school.
> > > The learning to follow group directions a bit,
> > other's routines, etc.
> > seems
> > > like a positive addition to their life
> experience.
> > Now as I think more
> > about
> > > unschooling, I'm not sure it's congruent,
> though
> > I still want to do it!
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with what someone else said - this is
> where
> > they'll learn schooling,
> > not unschooling. Additionally, I personally
> believe
> > that preschools teach
> > unsocialization, not socialization. My son's best
> > friend (who previously had
> > been at home his whole life with a SAHM) just
> > started pre-school last month
> > and the change in his behavior has been amazing
> (not
> > for the good). Last
> > night, my son told us "I don't want to play with
> XXX
> > again. I don't like the
> > way he treats me anymore". The difference is that
> > noticeable. On another
> > list I'm on, there has been a thread on bullying
> in
> > preschool. Yes, it
> > starts early.
> > IMHO, segregating a bunch of kids of the same age
> in
> > a place that they don't
> > have the freedom to leave results in some markedly
> > anti-social behavior.
> >
> > Blue Skies!
> > -Robin-
> > Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "Mom, maybe when you
> die
> > they'll put you in a
> > natural history museum"
> > and Asa (10/5/99) who likes to dive headfirst into
> > the swimming pool!
> > http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying
> > Clevenger Family
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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Tracy Oldfield
That has happened with my son and daughter, ages 10
and 8 respectively. I should NEVER have enrolled them
in PS. Although they are still lovely children, I
feel their self confidence was undermined in school.
I am having a hard time trying to "deschool" them. My
son, in particular, is having trouble making the
transition from school to home even though he is all
for homeschooling. Any suggestions? I just started
this in January.
I'm going to say that this reply is for Linda with the
LD child too :-) Unschooling (for me, anyway) isn't
about teaching our children what we think they need to
know or even skills we think they'll need to use. It's
about following their interests and trusting them, that
if they need or want to know something they'll find a
way to find it out. Our role is as facilitator, like
the great stories about the train-obsessed boys! Those
'let's go look it up!' sessions... I have a similar
thing with my dd and dinosaurs atm, we got a DK CD on
dinosaurs cheap with a newspaper, and now she quotes to
anyone who'll listen, and wants to know anything and
everything there is to know about dinosaurs *grin* We
went to the UK's National Museum of Photography, Film
and Television on Friday, and she was more interested
in the model dinosaurs used in 10 million years BC (or
whatever it's called!) (oh, we saw the Art of Star Wars
exhibition while were there, spendy but good, real
production models of the ships and costumes and stuff,
wish I hadn't been dragged round by the kids who wanted
to look at something else...) So I don't do 'maths' or
'reading' or 'writing' or any other subject, we just
live our lives and follow what we're into. And you
know what, it really works!
Maths, Linda, you've had great suggestions about how
you can deal with maths in real-life ways. Now I
wonder if you can let go of the idea that it's
necessary to think about it in this way, and just do
those things without turning your life into a series of
'educational experiences.' (I think it's very easy for
home-edders to fall into this pattern, and it's a very
quick route to burn-out.)
Deschooling is a natural process which will occur if
it's allowed to. You can't deschool your son, nor make
him deschool, it would defeat the object I think.
Given that (can someone back me up on this, I keep
quoting it and I need to know if others concur)
deschooling is said to take around a month for each
year of institutionalised school, you can give both you
and him at least until August to shed whatever
preconceptions about learning and issues of self-image
and self-worth have been gathered in his time at
school, before even thinking about assessing any
'progress.' It's my guess that in that time, he'll
have rediscovered enough of himself and his interests
to be doing stuff on his own initiative. Simply
support whatever he's doing and try not to worry when
he doesn't seem to be doing anything, many people's
brains work best when they don't appear to be doing
anything! (Those vacant driftings-off are actually
times of brain development, or so I read a couple of
years ago, and it's important not to interrupt them.
Unfortunately if I left my dd until she came out of
such fugues, the cats would come and eat her tea from
her plate without her knowing, and we'd never go
anywhere!)
Anyway, I hope this helps in some way, even if it's not
what either of you were asking in the first place!
Tracy
and 8 respectively. I should NEVER have enrolled them
in PS. Although they are still lovely children, I
feel their self confidence was undermined in school.
I am having a hard time trying to "deschool" them. My
son, in particular, is having trouble making the
transition from school to home even though he is all
for homeschooling. Any suggestions? I just started
this in January.
I'm going to say that this reply is for Linda with the
LD child too :-) Unschooling (for me, anyway) isn't
about teaching our children what we think they need to
know or even skills we think they'll need to use. It's
about following their interests and trusting them, that
if they need or want to know something they'll find a
way to find it out. Our role is as facilitator, like
the great stories about the train-obsessed boys! Those
'let's go look it up!' sessions... I have a similar
thing with my dd and dinosaurs atm, we got a DK CD on
dinosaurs cheap with a newspaper, and now she quotes to
anyone who'll listen, and wants to know anything and
everything there is to know about dinosaurs *grin* We
went to the UK's National Museum of Photography, Film
and Television on Friday, and she was more interested
in the model dinosaurs used in 10 million years BC (or
whatever it's called!) (oh, we saw the Art of Star Wars
exhibition while were there, spendy but good, real
production models of the ships and costumes and stuff,
wish I hadn't been dragged round by the kids who wanted
to look at something else...) So I don't do 'maths' or
'reading' or 'writing' or any other subject, we just
live our lives and follow what we're into. And you
know what, it really works!
Maths, Linda, you've had great suggestions about how
you can deal with maths in real-life ways. Now I
wonder if you can let go of the idea that it's
necessary to think about it in this way, and just do
those things without turning your life into a series of
'educational experiences.' (I think it's very easy for
home-edders to fall into this pattern, and it's a very
quick route to burn-out.)
Deschooling is a natural process which will occur if
it's allowed to. You can't deschool your son, nor make
him deschool, it would defeat the object I think.
Given that (can someone back me up on this, I keep
quoting it and I need to know if others concur)
deschooling is said to take around a month for each
year of institutionalised school, you can give both you
and him at least until August to shed whatever
preconceptions about learning and issues of self-image
and self-worth have been gathered in his time at
school, before even thinking about assessing any
'progress.' It's my guess that in that time, he'll
have rediscovered enough of himself and his interests
to be doing stuff on his own initiative. Simply
support whatever he's doing and try not to worry when
he doesn't seem to be doing anything, many people's
brains work best when they don't appear to be doing
anything! (Those vacant driftings-off are actually
times of brain development, or so I read a couple of
years ago, and it's important not to interrupt them.
Unfortunately if I left my dd until she came out of
such fugues, the cats would come and eat her tea from
her plate without her knowing, and we'd never go
anywhere!)
Anyway, I hope this helps in some way, even if it's not
what either of you were asking in the first place!
Tracy