Fw: ADD/Custody Issue
Lori
I'm trying to help a friend who is embroiled in a post-divorce disaster concerning his children. He and his ex have joint legal custody of the 14yos and 15yos. Both have been "diagnosed" by the schools as being ADD and, therefore, mandated to have Ritalin. The mother is in full support of the course and will not hear of another approach. The young men in question do not want to be drugged and the father supports them. The elder son has flat out refused to take any meds and has weaned himself off but is now miserable living with the school system and the mother. The younger son will not be permitted to attend school in the father's town without meds unless the mother signs an educational consent form which she will not do. Last year, the father had to pay $650 each month to his school district to allow the younger son to attend school there as a non-resident because the mother would not sign the paper. Apparently, this boy encountered some fairly awful situations while in school in the mother's town because the father feels that to return there would be life-threatening for the boy. Resultingly, the father and step-mother want to homeschool the 14yos.
The biggest stumbling block in their situation is that the father encounters attorney after attorney, and even the magistrate in charge of his case, who has a son on Ritalin and keeps espousing the benefits. The family already sees that the *benefit* of drugging those who learn differently is mostly derived by the school institution and not the child. Can any of you point me in the direction of substantive information or an attorney in Ohio who can assist these folks? TIA!
Lori
The biggest stumbling block in their situation is that the father encounters attorney after attorney, and even the magistrate in charge of his case, who has a son on Ritalin and keeps espousing the benefits. The family already sees that the *benefit* of drugging those who learn differently is mostly derived by the school institution and not the child. Can any of you point me in the direction of substantive information or an attorney in Ohio who can assist these folks? TIA!
Lori
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/2/1999 8:48:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
HarmNone@... writes:
<< ggest stumbling block in their situation is that the father encounters
attorney after attorney, and even the magistrate in charge of his case, who
has a son on Ritalin and keeps espousing the benefits. The family already
sees that the *benefit* of drugging those who learn differently is mostly
derived by the school institution and not the child. Can any of you point me
in the direction of substantive information or an attorney in Ohio who can
assist these folks? >>
Wow. I sure wish I could help. I have two children with ADHD. Adam was
first put on Ritalin in 1st grade, and it was awful. He is one of those
children that the meds made a lot worse. He was on 5 different medications
by the 6th grade,and had been hospitalized once for depression. Now that he
is homeschooled, he is off all medication and is doing wonderfully. I would
suggest that this parent contact C.H.A.D.D. They may even have a website,
but I'm not sure. They may be able to help him contact an attorney or
perhaps an advocate that could help him.
Jill
HarmNone@... writes:
<< ggest stumbling block in their situation is that the father encounters
attorney after attorney, and even the magistrate in charge of his case, who
has a son on Ritalin and keeps espousing the benefits. The family already
sees that the *benefit* of drugging those who learn differently is mostly
derived by the school institution and not the child. Can any of you point me
in the direction of substantive information or an attorney in Ohio who can
assist these folks? >>
Wow. I sure wish I could help. I have two children with ADHD. Adam was
first put on Ritalin in 1st grade, and it was awful. He is one of those
children that the meds made a lot worse. He was on 5 different medications
by the 6th grade,and had been hospitalized once for depression. Now that he
is homeschooled, he is off all medication and is doing wonderfully. I would
suggest that this parent contact C.H.A.D.D. They may even have a website,
but I'm not sure. They may be able to help him contact an attorney or
perhaps an advocate that could help him.
Jill
[email protected]
I too have a son who has ADD. First he should check the state law. The school
cannot diagnose ADD or demand medication (of course they can make it very
miserable for parents and kids if you don't comply). He is absolutely correct
in not wanting his kids on Ridalin. No one really knows the long-term effects
of this drug yet. I know it does teach a child self-medication and thus opens
the door for later drug abuse, but so would not being understood by so many
adults. Schools are not willing to deal with the extra care needed to teach
an ADD child without Ridalin making them an automaton. The schools goal is to
have quiet children who follow the rules without ever stepping out of line,
requiring minimum care on the part of the staff. Make sure he does know,
however, that they will treat his children as "bad" kids, almost as if
Ridalin were the only way to validate the diagnosis of ADD. That of course,
can and will follow them on their school records. Let your friend know he has
support in Texas! Lori in TX
cannot diagnose ADD or demand medication (of course they can make it very
miserable for parents and kids if you don't comply). He is absolutely correct
in not wanting his kids on Ridalin. No one really knows the long-term effects
of this drug yet. I know it does teach a child self-medication and thus opens
the door for later drug abuse, but so would not being understood by so many
adults. Schools are not willing to deal with the extra care needed to teach
an ADD child without Ridalin making them an automaton. The schools goal is to
have quiet children who follow the rules without ever stepping out of line,
requiring minimum care on the part of the staff. Make sure he does know,
however, that they will treat his children as "bad" kids, almost as if
Ridalin were the only way to validate the diagnosis of ADD. That of course,
can and will follow them on their school records. Let your friend know he has
support in Texas! Lori in TX
linjoy w
CHADD is very pro ritalin, so I don't think that would be a good resource
to fight the use of it. (the insulin=ritalin comparison is from them)
LJ
to fight the use of it. (the insulin=ritalin comparison is from them)
LJ
>
>
>Wow. I sure wish I could help. I have two children with ADHD. Adam
>was
>first put on Ritalin in 1st grade, and it was awful. He is one of
>those
>children that the meds made a lot worse. He was on 5 different
>medications
>by the 6th grade,and had been hospitalized once for depression. Now
>that he
>is homeschooled, he is off all medication and is doing wonderfully.
>I would
>suggest that this parent contact C.H.A.D.D. They may even have a
>website,
>but I'm not sure. They may be able to help him contact an attorney or
>
>perhaps an advocate that could help him.
>
>Jill
>
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mrstar
go to http://www.borntoexplore.org for alternative adhd info. It is the best
site I have found. I will try to post an insufferably long article about
adhd as soon as I can get to it (in the middle of moving from webtv to
computer, not fun) Best wishes to the family involved.
Mary in Idaho
site I have found. I will try to post an insufferably long article about
adhd as soon as I can get to it (in the middle of moving from webtv to
computer, not fun) Best wishes to the family involved.
Mary in Idaho
linjoy w
there are an awful lot of those parents out there. They really don't
want to hear about any alternatives, especially any that might require
them to spend time with their own child. It makes me very sad.
LJ
want to hear about any alternatives, especially any that might require
them to spend time with their own child. It makes me very sad.
LJ
>>
>>What parent could, in good conscious, medicate their child daily like
>that?
>> How can we know what the long term effects of such action will be?
>
>I get the impression a significant number of people just haven't given
>it a
>lot of thought. They've been raised to defer to "experts" including
>teachers
>and doctors, they may be feeling tremendously pressured from other
>aspects
>of their lives, and they tell themselves they're doing what's best.
>When
>junior comes back with more positive comments from his teacher and
>maybe
>better grades which are sometimes very subjective, their decision is
>affirmed.
>
>What just blows me away, besides the whole creativity aspect, is that
>we
>seem to have labeled normal behavior among young males in particular
>as a
>disease and are treating them accordingly. I can't begin to imagine
>the
>consequences of that.
>
>>
>>Of course, if the condition has been carefully diagnosed and
>medication is
>>required as a small PART of a course of treatment, with the ultimte
>goal to
>>get them functioning without it, that is definately a responsible
>option.
>
>
>That's a different story and I'm sure there are very conscientious
>parents
>who are taking this tack.
>
>Maura
>
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/5/1999 7:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
linjoy1@... writes:
<<
this medication is perfectly safe. And the parent who is told that ADHD is
an illness like diabetes, and you wouldn't withhold insulin from a child who
needed it, would you?
My son is off meds now, but I bought into the fact that he needed them in
order to function, and that I would be doing him a disservice if I did not
"treat" his illness. I bought it for 5 years.
Jill
linjoy1@... writes:
<<
>>What parent could, in good conscious, medicate their child daily likePerhaps the parent who is told by their pediatrician or a psychiatrist that
>that? >>
this medication is perfectly safe. And the parent who is told that ADHD is
an illness like diabetes, and you wouldn't withhold insulin from a child who
needed it, would you?
My son is off meds now, but I bought into the fact that he needed them in
order to function, and that I would be doing him a disservice if I did not
"treat" his illness. I bought it for 5 years.
Jill
Michele Moss
> From: Jastypes@...Quite a few years ago, i did a paper on Ritalin and one of the
>
> In a message dated 8/5/1999 7:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> linjoy1@... writes:
>
> <<
> >>What parent could, in good conscious, medicate their child daily
> like >that? >>
>
> Perhaps the parent who is told by their pediatrician or a
> psychiatrist that this medication is perfectly safe. And the parent
> who is told that ADHD is an illness like diabetes, and you wouldn't
> withhold insulin from a child who needed it, would you?
>
things that shocked me at the time is that Ritalin was on the list of
drugs that airplane pilots were grounded for.
so we could give Ritalin to our kids but pilots could not fly if
they were on Ritalin? i found that a little scarey.
If Ritalin is suppose to help kids focus, then why were pilots not
able to fly while on Ritalin? if 2+2-4, wouldn't the aide of
Ritalin made them a better pilot? h-m-m-m-m.
so what's wrong with this picture folks?
> My son is off meds now,good for you! give yourself a big hug!
but I bought into the fact that he needed
> them in order to function, and that I would be doing him aMichele Moss
> disservice if I did not "treat" his illness. I bought it for 5
> years.
>
> Jill
>
Infinity Computer Solutions
Great Falls, MT
406-727-5609
http://www.icstech.net
Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst
Regarding your comments below on your Ritalin paper....
Medications can act very differently in a child body vs. an adult body.
Perhaps what Ritalin does in an adult constitutes grounding pilots.
However, what it does for a child with real ADD may be beneficial for some
period (perhaps even years).
To really diagnose ADD appropriately, the child should probably be *at
least* 5.5 or 6 yo.
I guess my comment on this discussion comes down to......realize it's
confusing out there. I agree many innappropriate diagnostics are done - I
believe especially on the 3 - 5 year old crowd. But many parents truly
struggle into the school age years with this issue. They appropriately
seek, try, and trust their physician's advice - and thier own gut
instincts. It's all on the parenting journey.....we don't have all the
answers, but I think most on this list are sincerely doing their best - and
would be willing to change as *whatever is best* changes.
TTFN,
Susan
Mom to three
From: "Michele Moss" <michele@...>
things that shocked me at the time is that Ritalin was on the list of
drugs that airplane pilots were grounded for.
so we could give Ritalin to our kids but pilots could not fly if
they were on Ritalin? i found that a little scarey.
If Ritalin is suppose to help kids focus, then why were pilots not
able to fly while on Ritalin? if 2+2-4, wouldn't the aide of
Ritalin made them a better pilot? h-m-m-m-m.
so what's wrong with this picture folks?
Michele Moss
Infinity Computer Solutions
Great Falls, MT
406-727-5609
http://www.icstech.net
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Medications can act very differently in a child body vs. an adult body.
Perhaps what Ritalin does in an adult constitutes grounding pilots.
However, what it does for a child with real ADD may be beneficial for some
period (perhaps even years).
To really diagnose ADD appropriately, the child should probably be *at
least* 5.5 or 6 yo.
I guess my comment on this discussion comes down to......realize it's
confusing out there. I agree many innappropriate diagnostics are done - I
believe especially on the 3 - 5 year old crowd. But many parents truly
struggle into the school age years with this issue. They appropriately
seek, try, and trust their physician's advice - and thier own gut
instincts. It's all on the parenting journey.....we don't have all the
answers, but I think most on this list are sincerely doing their best - and
would be willing to change as *whatever is best* changes.
TTFN,
Susan
Mom to three
From: "Michele Moss" <michele@...>
> From: Jastypes@...Quite a few years ago, i did a paper on Ritalin and one of the
>
things that shocked me at the time is that Ritalin was on the list of
drugs that airplane pilots were grounded for.
so we could give Ritalin to our kids but pilots could not fly if
they were on Ritalin? i found that a little scarey.
If Ritalin is suppose to help kids focus, then why were pilots not
able to fly while on Ritalin? if 2+2-4, wouldn't the aide of
Ritalin made them a better pilot? h-m-m-m-m.
so what's wrong with this picture folks?
Michele Moss
Infinity Computer Solutions
Great Falls, MT
406-727-5609
http://www.icstech.net
--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,
NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR.
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Maura Seger
>From: Jastypes@...And the parent who is told that ADHD is
>
>In a message dated 8/5/1999 7:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>linjoy1@... writes:
>
>an illness like diabetes, and you wouldn't withhold insulin from a childwho
>needed it, would you?I heard this line! Not five minutes into an appointment with a pediatrician
>
who observing my son (anxious to get back to a new piece of software) wrote
on his file "possible ADHD" and started talking to me about Ritalin. Gee, I
wonder how it is different doctors spout the identical line. Maybe they're
all using the same play book and who would be providing that? A drug
company, by any chance?
Maura
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/99 11:30:12 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mseger@...
writes:
<<
I heard this line! Not five minutes into an appointment with a pediatrician
who observing my son (anxious to get back to a new piece of software) wrote
on his file "possible ADHD" and started talking to me about Ritalin. Gee, I
wonder how it is different doctors spout the identical line. Maybe they're
all using the same play book and who would be providing that? A drug
company, by any chance?
Maura >>
One of the things that has always bothered me about Ritalin is the "try it
and see if it works" line. The version I have heard is that it won't have
the desired effect in kid's who don't have ADD/ADHD -- so if it doesn't fix
the problem after X months -- then the kid doesn't have ADD/ADHD and
something else needs to be done. I don't have this problem with my kids and
I believe there are kids who really do need this med, but this cavalier
approach to experimenting on a particular kid has always frightened me.
Nance
writes:
<<
I heard this line! Not five minutes into an appointment with a pediatrician
who observing my son (anxious to get back to a new piece of software) wrote
on his file "possible ADHD" and started talking to me about Ritalin. Gee, I
wonder how it is different doctors spout the identical line. Maybe they're
all using the same play book and who would be providing that? A drug
company, by any chance?
Maura >>
One of the things that has always bothered me about Ritalin is the "try it
and see if it works" line. The version I have heard is that it won't have
the desired effect in kid's who don't have ADD/ADHD -- so if it doesn't fix
the problem after X months -- then the kid doesn't have ADD/ADHD and
something else needs to be done. I don't have this problem with my kids and
I believe there are kids who really do need this med, but this cavalier
approach to experimenting on a particular kid has always frightened me.
Nance
Maura Seger
>From: Marbleface@...mseger@...
>
>In a message dated 8/6/99 11:30:12 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
>writes:and
>
>
>
>One of the things that has always bothered me about Ritalin is the "try it
>and see if it works" line. The version I have heard is that it won't have
>the desired effect in kid's who don't have ADD/ADHD -- so if it doesn't fix
>the problem after X months -- then the kid doesn't have ADD/ADHD and
>something else needs to be done. I don't have this problem with my kids
>I believe there are kids who really do need this med, but this cavalierI've also heard this approach and it really amazes me but I understand it's
>approach to experimenting on a particular kid has always frightened me.
>
>Nance
>
reflective of the lack of any clinical standard for ADD. It's not like
there's a blood test or any other screening that can actually show the
presence of a disease. The checklist that's used looks like a sick joke
especially since so many of the traits on it relate to gifted kids. I'd
think all that would make doctors extremely cautious about prescribing.
Silly me.
Maura
Andi Kaufman
GO TANYA! There is something called ADD and it is something that not only
needs meds but it needs diagonosing and support.
and then there are schools and people who want to label kids that dont fit
into the system. these are 2 very different things. I assume the people who
were talking neg about meds were the ones in teh second group. an active
kids doesnt need meds!
I am very interested in this whole discussion cus we are in the process of
adopting a child between the ages of 4 and 8 and many of these childrens
are diagnosed with ADD, way too many for it to be a real problem. Most
likely they just dont fit the system and tell me who could if you were
taken away from your parents and probably abused.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
needs meds but it needs diagonosing and support.
and then there are schools and people who want to label kids that dont fit
into the system. these are 2 very different things. I assume the people who
were talking neg about meds were the ones in teh second group. an active
kids doesnt need meds!
I am very interested in this whole discussion cus we are in the process of
adopting a child between the ages of 4 and 8 and many of these childrens
are diagnosed with ADD, way too many for it to be a real problem. Most
likely they just dont fit the system and tell me who could if you were
taken away from your parents and probably abused.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
linjoy w
first comment linjoy1@... has not said half of the stuff being
attributed.
From my sent messages folder, these are the three posts made to the list.
I will stand behind all of them, but not the other things I have been
quoted as saying <G>
I do think it was CHADD that started the insulin/ritalin comparison and
since CHADD has the money to get their message out most doctors have not
heard of any other thoughts on ADD/ADHD
LJ
there are an awful lot of those parents out there. They really don't
want to hear about any alternatives, especially any that might require
them to spend time with their own child. It makes me very sad.
LJ
CHADD is very pro ritalin, so I don't think that would be a good resource
to fight the use of it. (the insulin=ritalin comparison is from them)
LJ
plus a forward on a custody battle
attributed.
From my sent messages folder, these are the three posts made to the list.
I will stand behind all of them, but not the other things I have been
quoted as saying <G>
I do think it was CHADD that started the insulin/ritalin comparison and
since CHADD has the money to get their message out most doctors have not
heard of any other thoughts on ADD/ADHD
LJ
there are an awful lot of those parents out there. They really don't
want to hear about any alternatives, especially any that might require
them to spend time with their own child. It makes me very sad.
LJ
CHADD is very pro ritalin, so I don't think that would be a good resource
to fight the use of it. (the insulin=ritalin comparison is from them)
LJ
plus a forward on a custody battle
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>I'd say, more properly, Good for HIM!
>> My son is off meds now,
>
> good for you! give yourself a big hug!
Nanci K. in Idaho
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
A
share the same opinion of it.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>We are adopting from the same age group, have seen the same phenomenon and
>I am very interested in this whole discussion cus we are in the process of
>adopting a child between the ages of 4 and 8 and many of these childrens
>are diagnosed with ADD, way too many for it to be a real problem. Most
>likely they just dont fit the system and tell me who could if you were
>taken away from your parents and probably abused.
>
>Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
> mom to Isaac
> tl2b@...
>
>Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
share the same opinion of it.
Nanci K. in Idaho