Guns
Sherry Hagen
Hi folks,
My son and I were out shopping and he had $2 to spend. He saw a small
silver shiny toy pistle. I said those guns were made mostly just for
killing people. He decided not to buy it and bought a small flashlight
instead.
Sherry
My son and I were out shopping and he had $2 to spend. He saw a small
silver shiny toy pistle. I said those guns were made mostly just for
killing people. He decided not to buy it and bought a small flashlight
instead.
Sherry
[email protected]
My dh was 14yrs old when he went Duck shoting with his uncle. his
uncle went every year, and was a *careful* hunter.
On this day, for some reason the gun ahd been leant up against a
fence loaded and ready to fire. It began to fall over and uncle
reached over to catch it - too late, it went off, shooting my dh in
the ankle. It blow away his ankle - he was unconcious for 3 days from
loss of blood. Because thay were a long way from a road, it took
considerable time to get to the hospital.
dh had to have a muscle graft - skin graft and bone graft. He still
has the scars 20 yrs later. He was in hospital for 3 months and when
he did go home, was in a wheel chair for several weeks.
Accidents can/will always happen. So yes, if one must have a gun,
safty precautions MUST be taught.
I do not like guns and will not have them in the house.
Marianne
uncle went every year, and was a *careful* hunter.
On this day, for some reason the gun ahd been leant up against a
fence loaded and ready to fire. It began to fall over and uncle
reached over to catch it - too late, it went off, shooting my dh in
the ankle. It blow away his ankle - he was unconcious for 3 days from
loss of blood. Because thay were a long way from a road, it took
considerable time to get to the hospital.
dh had to have a muscle graft - skin graft and bone graft. He still
has the scars 20 yrs later. He was in hospital for 3 months and when
he did go home, was in a wheel chair for several weeks.
Accidents can/will always happen. So yes, if one must have a gun,
safty precautions MUST be taught.
I do not like guns and will not have them in the house.
Marianne
Tsigili Unega
That is sad that your husband went thru such pain.
You are right that accidents do happen. However, Id
like to point out a line of thinking that doesnt quite
make sense to me. Its normal but I want to stimulate
some thinking about it.
You have chosen to not have guns in your home because
of the accident. Do you also choose not to have
vehicles? Cars have killed people.
Many children have died from toys. Will you no longer
allow toys in the home because they have killed
children?
People have killed people. Will they also be banned?
Ridiculous thinking? Sure it is. But, were teaching
our children that people are not the ones who are
hurting and killing others.
By saying an inatimate, unfeeling object is
responsible for killing something, were teaching our
children that people are not responsible for the
things that they do.
The saying "Guns Dont Kill People, People Kill People"
is nothing but the truth and I what I teach my child.
Guns do not get up all be themselves and kill. A
person must pick it up, load it and pull the trigger.
We prosecute the drunk that got in their car, drove
and killed someone. Do we blame the car, the drinks?
How can children grow up to be responsible individuals
if were teaching them they dont have to be?
Robin
A single mom gun owner/hunter/hobbyist shooter
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You are right that accidents do happen. However, Id
like to point out a line of thinking that doesnt quite
make sense to me. Its normal but I want to stimulate
some thinking about it.
You have chosen to not have guns in your home because
of the accident. Do you also choose not to have
vehicles? Cars have killed people.
Many children have died from toys. Will you no longer
allow toys in the home because they have killed
children?
People have killed people. Will they also be banned?
Ridiculous thinking? Sure it is. But, were teaching
our children that people are not the ones who are
hurting and killing others.
By saying an inatimate, unfeeling object is
responsible for killing something, were teaching our
children that people are not responsible for the
things that they do.
The saying "Guns Dont Kill People, People Kill People"
is nothing but the truth and I what I teach my child.
Guns do not get up all be themselves and kill. A
person must pick it up, load it and pull the trigger.
We prosecute the drunk that got in their car, drove
and killed someone. Do we blame the car, the drinks?
How can children grow up to be responsible individuals
if were teaching them they dont have to be?
Robin
A single mom gun owner/hunter/hobbyist shooter
__________________________________________________
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[email protected]
We choose not to have guns (or I would, dh does have a rifle that the kids
don't know about--unloaded) because we do a risk/benefit analysis.
Can a car, or a kitchen knife, or a million other things hurt us? Yes, but we
keep them around if they benefit us more than their perceived risk.
Guns don't pass the test--for me.
:-) Diane
don't know about--unloaded) because we do a risk/benefit analysis.
Can a car, or a kitchen knife, or a million other things hurt us? Yes, but we
keep them around if they benefit us more than their perceived risk.
Guns don't pass the test--for me.
:-) Diane
> You have chosen to not have guns in your home because
> of the accident. Do you also choose not to have
> vehicles? Cars have killed people.
[email protected]
I'm going to ask this question in the most innocent, or perhaps
ignorant way I can think of - Aren't guns made for doing one thing,
and one thing only?
O.K., I know there are decorative guns (see, everything IS subjective
to perception!) and there are collector's or antique guns. Do these
guns have live ammunition to go with them usually (I honestly do not
know)? Guns that are used for target practice, do they have to have
live ammunition with them or can you use blanks?
I only ask these questions because guns seem to be one type of item
that is manufactured expressly for the purpose to kill. I recognize
that almost any household item or personal affect could be *turned
into* something that's lethal, but not directly designed for it. I
do not question the validity of the statement, "Guns Don't Kill
People, People kill People". I'm wondering if comparing guns to
automobiles, toys, household items or the millions of other dangers
in our lives is a fair comparison.
I'm also wondering if a child gets a hold of a loaded gun and shoots
himself or someone else, accidently, does the "Guns Don't Kill..."
statement hold true?
Chris
ignorant way I can think of - Aren't guns made for doing one thing,
and one thing only?
O.K., I know there are decorative guns (see, everything IS subjective
to perception!) and there are collector's or antique guns. Do these
guns have live ammunition to go with them usually (I honestly do not
know)? Guns that are used for target practice, do they have to have
live ammunition with them or can you use blanks?
I only ask these questions because guns seem to be one type of item
that is manufactured expressly for the purpose to kill. I recognize
that almost any household item or personal affect could be *turned
into* something that's lethal, but not directly designed for it. I
do not question the validity of the statement, "Guns Don't Kill
People, People kill People". I'm wondering if comparing guns to
automobiles, toys, household items or the millions of other dangers
in our lives is a fair comparison.
I'm also wondering if a child gets a hold of a loaded gun and shoots
himself or someone else, accidently, does the "Guns Don't Kill..."
statement hold true?
Chris
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tsigili Unega <whiteowl_4@y...> wrote:
> That is sad that your husband went thru such pain.
> You are right that accidents do happen. However, Id
> like to point out a line of thinking that doesnt quite
> make sense to me. Its normal but I want to stimulate
> some thinking about it.
>
> You have chosen to not have guns in your home because
> of the accident. Do you also choose not to have
> vehicles? Cars have killed people.
>
> Many children have died from toys. Will you no longer
> allow toys in the home because they have killed
> children?
>
> People have killed people. Will they also be banned?
>
> Ridiculous thinking? Sure it is. But, were teaching
> our children that people are not the ones who are
> hurting and killing others.
>
> By saying an inatimate, unfeeling object is
> responsible for killing something, were teaching our
> children that people are not responsible for the
> things that they do.
>
> The saying "Guns Dont Kill People, People Kill People"
> is nothing but the truth and I what I teach my child.
> Guns do not get up all be themselves and kill. A
> person must pick it up, load it and pull the trigger.
>
> We prosecute the drunk that got in their car, drove
> and killed someone. Do we blame the car, the drinks?
>
> How can children grow up to be responsible individuals
> if were teaching them they dont have to be?
>
> Robin
> A single mom gun owner/hunter/hobbyist shooter
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Valerie Stewart
I'm going to ask this question in the most innocent, or perhaps
ignorant way I can think of - Aren't guns made for doing one thing,
and one thing only?
**Chris, we have guns for protection. If that means kill someone in order to
protect myself or my family, so be it. Fortunately, it's never come down to
that with anyone I know. (I take that back...I know someone who killed
someone else in self-defense, but it was with a sword.) My husband's entire
family and nearly all their friends have guns. You'd never know it, but they
are armed nearly at all times. We enjoy target shooting. In all the
generations of their gun ownership, there's never been an accident or a case
of a child getting ahold of a gun. Not that they are cocky about that. They
take it very seriously.
When/if my daughters want to learn to shoot we'll have them take a
marksmanship course, and a gun safety course. I took one with my mil and we
had a great time.
Valerie in Tacoma
ignorant way I can think of - Aren't guns made for doing one thing,
and one thing only?
**Chris, we have guns for protection. If that means kill someone in order to
protect myself or my family, so be it. Fortunately, it's never come down to
that with anyone I know. (I take that back...I know someone who killed
someone else in self-defense, but it was with a sword.) My husband's entire
family and nearly all their friends have guns. You'd never know it, but they
are armed nearly at all times. We enjoy target shooting. In all the
generations of their gun ownership, there's never been an accident or a case
of a child getting ahold of a gun. Not that they are cocky about that. They
take it very seriously.
When/if my daughters want to learn to shoot we'll have them take a
marksmanship course, and a gun safety course. I took one with my mil and we
had a great time.
Valerie in Tacoma
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tsigili Unega" <whiteowl_4@...>
> Ridiculous thinking? Sure it is. But, were teaching
> our children that people are not the ones who are
> hurting and killing others.
*** I think that we are teaching that irresponsibility is o.k. when folks
get all hyper over responsible ownership--waiting periods, mandatory
classes, responsibility for stolen guns.
>
> By saying an inatimate, unfeeling object is
> responsible for killing something, were teaching our
> children that people are not responsible for the
> things that they do.
>
> The saying "Guns Dont Kill People, People Kill People"
> is nothing but the truth and I what I teach my child.
> Guns do not get up all be themselves and kill. A
> person must pick it up, load it and pull the trigger.
>
> We prosecute the drunk that got in their car, drove
> and killed someone. Do we blame the car, the drinks?
*** We tow and impound cars that don't meet the requirements of safe
driving. We tow and impound cars that are used in various illegal acts
(including DUIs), so in essence we are "punishing" the object as well as the
owner, technically <g> And if a vehicle is too unsafe, we crush the sucker
and melt it down and make it into something else.
>
> How can children grow up to be responsible individuals
> if were teaching them they dont have to be?
*** How does not having a gun and teaching children there are ways besides
violence to solve problems possibly be teaching kids to be irresponsible
adults?
Lynda
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/10/01 7:41:00 PM, cmas100@... writes:
<< Guns that are used for target practice, do they have to have
live ammunition with them or can you use blanks? >>
Blanks can kill people too; I need to say that.
Swords are made for killing too. At least rifles are made to kill animals
for food or protections. Nobody goes deer hunting with a sword.
Then again, kids don't accidently kill each other much with swords.
We have a hatchet in the den, which I use to split kindling, and it hangs on
the wall, low, in easy reach. When little kids (toddlers) come over, I put
it up high.
But out in the garage we have all kinds of power tools and hammers and
screwdrivers, and those could be used to kill people, even in the movies.
Even if a simple question is answered about handguns being designed for
interpersonal business, it doesn't make them the only dangerous thing in
anyone's house.
People who have been in the military or law enforcement often come to have an
affinity for the tools they're trained to use--clubs, sticks, swords, guns,
missile launchers, helicopters, whatever. Some of those are cooler and have
a more fascinating history than others.
I can see and understand the fascination, I just don't personally have it.
We can't kill that fascination by talking about it, though. We can scare
some people into hiding the ammo better and locking the guns up, but the
history of firearms is totally interesting to many people, and there are
bright people I know and respect who have it, and I see it in their eyes, and
they never want to kill anybody and they're very careful.
Sandra
<< Guns that are used for target practice, do they have to have
live ammunition with them or can you use blanks? >>
Blanks can kill people too; I need to say that.
Swords are made for killing too. At least rifles are made to kill animals
for food or protections. Nobody goes deer hunting with a sword.
Then again, kids don't accidently kill each other much with swords.
We have a hatchet in the den, which I use to split kindling, and it hangs on
the wall, low, in easy reach. When little kids (toddlers) come over, I put
it up high.
But out in the garage we have all kinds of power tools and hammers and
screwdrivers, and those could be used to kill people, even in the movies.
Even if a simple question is answered about handguns being designed for
interpersonal business, it doesn't make them the only dangerous thing in
anyone's house.
People who have been in the military or law enforcement often come to have an
affinity for the tools they're trained to use--clubs, sticks, swords, guns,
missile launchers, helicopters, whatever. Some of those are cooler and have
a more fascinating history than others.
I can see and understand the fascination, I just don't personally have it.
We can't kill that fascination by talking about it, though. We can scare
some people into hiding the ammo better and locking the guns up, but the
history of firearms is totally interesting to many people, and there are
bright people I know and respect who have it, and I see it in their eyes, and
they never want to kill anybody and they're very careful.
Sandra
Tsigili Unega
Now THAT makes sense to me. Thank you for this
explanation. :)
Robin
* \___/
(OvO)
( )~( )
=((=))=
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explanation. :)
Robin
> Message: 25=====
> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:28:28 EST
> From: cen46624@...
> Subject: Re: Re: Guns
>
> We choose not to have guns (or I would, dh does have
> a rifle that the kids
> don't know about--unloaded) because we do a
> risk/benefit analysis.
>
> Can a car, or a kitchen knife, or a million other
> things hurt us? Yes, but we
> keep them around if they benefit us more than their
> perceived risk.
>
> Guns don't pass the test--for me.
>
> :-) Diane
* \___/
(OvO)
( )~( )
=((=))=
__________________________________________________
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[email protected]
Thanks for responding! I was beginning to think my response hadn't posted to
the list.
:-) Diane
the list.
:-) Diane
> Now THAT makes sense to me. Thank you for this
> explanation. :)
>
> Robin
[email protected]
In a message dated 08/29/2001 4:41:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
toys that I thought were positive and empowering. We never really ran into
relatives buying them, probably because they knew we'd have issues with it.
He never did much of the gun play thing at all. When he was little he only
watched PBS on tv, so it's possible it never occurred to him to imagine a
gun. (It amuses me now, but he also didn't have any sugar until well after
two!)
Now he has Super Soakers, which I definitely had a twinge about. But how cool
ARE these things?! Interestingly, he always refers to them as Super Soakers
("Want to go play with the Super Soakers?"), never as guns. It might be fear
of Mama Disapproval, but I really believe it's just commercial influence.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> **i just wondered what other parents did or thought about children playingJulian didn't get toy guns when he was little because I tried to always buy
> with guns. not real guns, but toy guns. we had a no gun rule then my son
> turned
> everything into a gun and so it turned into a don't point it at anyone
> rule.**
>
>
toys that I thought were positive and empowering. We never really ran into
relatives buying them, probably because they knew we'd have issues with it.
He never did much of the gun play thing at all. When he was little he only
watched PBS on tv, so it's possible it never occurred to him to imagine a
gun. (It amuses me now, but he also didn't have any sugar until well after
two!)
Now he has Super Soakers, which I definitely had a twinge about. But how cool
ARE these things?! Interestingly, he always refers to them as Super Soakers
("Want to go play with the Super Soakers?"), never as guns. It might be fear
of Mama Disapproval, but I really believe it's just commercial influence.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/01 9:40:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
also colored the way I think... When we were growing up we had toy guns,
water pistols and cap guns.... BUT there was no chance of us getting a real
gun when we got older and it never entered out head.
Now that I live in America I don't let my son have guns... He doesn't even
know what one is (a) he's not exposed to television programs that have them
in it (b) not exposed to children who play with guns (maybe that will change
and I'll deal with it when it happens)..... Whenever he goes to someone's
house for a playdate that is new to us I ask them whether they have guns....
(I mean real ones) and if the answer is yes, Zak doesn't go.... They are
welcome to come to our home, but I'm not sending my child to a house where
there are guns....
Dawn
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dawn Falbe
Personal Development Coach
Relocational Astrologer
(520) 579-2646
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Path of Least Resistance is Inside of You
www.astrologerdawn.com
Enlightening women on how to live their Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world
are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and,
if they can't find them, make them." - George Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."-George
Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Generally speaking children do not pretend to kill people with a car,I'm definately with you on this one Lynda.... maybe growing up in England
> toy dishes, a horse or an air guitar.
also colored the way I think... When we were growing up we had toy guns,
water pistols and cap guns.... BUT there was no chance of us getting a real
gun when we got older and it never entered out head.
Now that I live in America I don't let my son have guns... He doesn't even
know what one is (a) he's not exposed to television programs that have them
in it (b) not exposed to children who play with guns (maybe that will change
and I'll deal with it when it happens)..... Whenever he goes to someone's
house for a playdate that is new to us I ask them whether they have guns....
(I mean real ones) and if the answer is yes, Zak doesn't go.... They are
welcome to come to our home, but I'm not sending my child to a house where
there are guns....
Dawn
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dawn Falbe
Personal Development Coach
Relocational Astrologer
(520) 579-2646
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Path of Least Resistance is Inside of You
www.astrologerdawn.com
Enlightening women on how to live their Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world
are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and,
if they can't find them, make them." - George Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."-George
Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/2/01 12:40:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Dawn
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dawn Falbe
Personal Development Coach
Relocational Astrologer
(520) 579-2646
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Path of Least Resistance is Inside of You
www.astrologerdawn.com
Enlightening women on how to live their Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world
are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and,
if they can't find them, make them." - George Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."-George
Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> And while removing guns won't remove the people you term problems, sinceYou go girl!!!!
> most of those "problems" are usually of the bully/coward genre, and I
> somehow can't picture driveby knivings, then I guess they just might have to
> learn to deal with their anger in a more constructive way.
>
Dawn
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dawn Falbe
Personal Development Coach
Relocational Astrologer
(520) 579-2646
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Path of Least Resistance is Inside of You
www.astrologerdawn.com
Enlightening women on how to live their Soul Purpose
"The people who get on in this world
are people who get up and look for the
circumstances they want, and,
if they can't find them, make them." - George Bernard Shaw
"The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."-George
Bernard Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]