Regarding Immunizations...
[email protected]
any job in the health care feild and possibly the food industry will require
the immunizations...
Adults who are not immunized nor experience those childhood diseases tend to
suffer those diseases far worse than the children recieving the immunizations
or even contracting the diseases...also...I am a nurse...I have to show an
immunity to measles before I can work in any facility...because...if I should
contract the disease it is possible for me to pass it on to either pregnant
patients or pregnant co-workers and measles (I believe the rubella version)
is devastating to the unborn. Chicken pox is another disease that is very
contagious and also devastating to adults...as well as pateints who could be
HIV positive...
I appreciate a parent not wanting to put thier children thruogh the pains of
immunizations and I understand the question of whether or not it is very
necessary today...but in the inner city populations and in the immigrant
populations (as well as poverty populations) we are seeing a rise in those
very diseases that the vaccines where supposed to have nearly wiped out.
Imagine going to the local store and exposing your child to the neighborhood
immigrant who has diptheria...without the vaccine...your non-immunized child
has a greater risk of contracting the disease...and I can tell you there is
nothing sadder than watching a young child struggle to breath with whooping
cough...almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
I hope this isn't to inflammatory for this group...I know ya'll have very
strong beliefs about what ya'll choose as parents...I can only speak from my
experiences...and what I see in my profession. You, as parents have to
decide what sort of measures you are going to take to protect your children
not only as children but even as they grow into adults...You have to decide
that the life ya'll are living is going to be good enough to protect your
children from those diseases that we vaccinate against...and you have to
decide if the descisions you make now are worth the consequences your
children may have to pay when they are adults...
I chose to vaccinate...long before I became educated enough to understand the
pro's and con's of the issue...and when I finally became educated enough to
understand the choice I had made...I also became educated enough to be able
to realize how devastating those diseases are...and also educated enough to
learn that despite the near disappearance of those diseases...they are also
on the rise again...so I am glad about the choice I made...
I don't know what else to say about the this topic...expect to do alot of
research...not just the opinions of those on this list...but contact the
local health department, ask for statistics for your area, think about
possible future choices that you mite make in where you live, if you decide
not to vaccinate...and decide to move to another area...research that
area...find the statistics for that area...although statistics are just
numbers...at any moment we could become a statistic...check out the diseases
that we are vaccinated against...learn about the long term effects that the
disease causes just in case your children happen to contract it some time in
their lives...Polio can leave some one to live the rest of thier lives in a
wheelchair...Mumps can leave a boy sterile and unable to have children (do
you really want to take the chance of not having grandchildren from your
sons?)...Chicken Pox can leave someone severely disfigured, can affect the
breathing and swallowing ability during the process of the
disease...Diptheria is often fatal...tetnus is fatal as well as excruciating
painful...Look this stuff up in the library or on the internet...don't go
into such a life affecting descision as to not vaccinate your children
without being fully informed...there is more to the issue than not being able
to attend public school or daycare...
I hoped that I created enough questions that you will not just jump into the
descision...
Blessed Be...
Lhiza
the immunizations...
Adults who are not immunized nor experience those childhood diseases tend to
suffer those diseases far worse than the children recieving the immunizations
or even contracting the diseases...also...I am a nurse...I have to show an
immunity to measles before I can work in any facility...because...if I should
contract the disease it is possible for me to pass it on to either pregnant
patients or pregnant co-workers and measles (I believe the rubella version)
is devastating to the unborn. Chicken pox is another disease that is very
contagious and also devastating to adults...as well as pateints who could be
HIV positive...
I appreciate a parent not wanting to put thier children thruogh the pains of
immunizations and I understand the question of whether or not it is very
necessary today...but in the inner city populations and in the immigrant
populations (as well as poverty populations) we are seeing a rise in those
very diseases that the vaccines where supposed to have nearly wiped out.
Imagine going to the local store and exposing your child to the neighborhood
immigrant who has diptheria...without the vaccine...your non-immunized child
has a greater risk of contracting the disease...and I can tell you there is
nothing sadder than watching a young child struggle to breath with whooping
cough...almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
I hope this isn't to inflammatory for this group...I know ya'll have very
strong beliefs about what ya'll choose as parents...I can only speak from my
experiences...and what I see in my profession. You, as parents have to
decide what sort of measures you are going to take to protect your children
not only as children but even as they grow into adults...You have to decide
that the life ya'll are living is going to be good enough to protect your
children from those diseases that we vaccinate against...and you have to
decide if the descisions you make now are worth the consequences your
children may have to pay when they are adults...
I chose to vaccinate...long before I became educated enough to understand the
pro's and con's of the issue...and when I finally became educated enough to
understand the choice I had made...I also became educated enough to be able
to realize how devastating those diseases are...and also educated enough to
learn that despite the near disappearance of those diseases...they are also
on the rise again...so I am glad about the choice I made...
I don't know what else to say about the this topic...expect to do alot of
research...not just the opinions of those on this list...but contact the
local health department, ask for statistics for your area, think about
possible future choices that you mite make in where you live, if you decide
not to vaccinate...and decide to move to another area...research that
area...find the statistics for that area...although statistics are just
numbers...at any moment we could become a statistic...check out the diseases
that we are vaccinated against...learn about the long term effects that the
disease causes just in case your children happen to contract it some time in
their lives...Polio can leave some one to live the rest of thier lives in a
wheelchair...Mumps can leave a boy sterile and unable to have children (do
you really want to take the chance of not having grandchildren from your
sons?)...Chicken Pox can leave someone severely disfigured, can affect the
breathing and swallowing ability during the process of the
disease...Diptheria is often fatal...tetnus is fatal as well as excruciating
painful...Look this stuff up in the library or on the internet...don't go
into such a life affecting descision as to not vaccinate your children
without being fully informed...there is more to the issue than not being able
to attend public school or daycare...
I hoped that I created enough questions that you will not just jump into the
descision...
Blessed Be...
Lhiza
Lynda
O.K., I debated sending this but felt it was necessary. This is not meant
to offend but some of the facts put out by the medical profession leave a
little bit to be desired.
Let's take adults that get measles, chicken pox and mumps. What they
neglect to say is that currently the vast majority of folks getting these
"childhood" diseases that are having such problems with the diseases are the
very people who were immunized as children.
For example, there was an outbreak of whooping cough in the Bay Area a
couple of years ago. This went through schools like the plague. Guess
what, these kids had all had their shots.
The number of deaths and adverse reactions from vaccines far out weigh the
numbers that use to have severe reactions or die from the diseases
themselves. Also, it needs to be noted that knowledge is the real reason
that there have been reductions in most of these diseases--knowledge of
proper personal hygiene, knowledge of proper municipal hygiene (water,
sewage), knowledge of the cause, knowledge in proper care of the patient
once they contract a disease.
And, again, take Hep B. More kids are dying of the vaccine than died of the
disease, plus deaths from the traditional causes of the disease continue
albeit at a reduced rate *due to* knowledge--knowledge of blood screening,
knowledge of pretesting before a woman gets pregnant.
So, as others have stated, do your research, but DON'T just rely on what the
medical profession is telling you by way of the handouts which the
pharmaceutical companies give them. After all, to not vaccinate causes a
big drop in the profits of those multimillionaire drug CEOs.
Lynda, retired Nursing Services Coordinator
to offend but some of the facts put out by the medical profession leave a
little bit to be desired.
Let's take adults that get measles, chicken pox and mumps. What they
neglect to say is that currently the vast majority of folks getting these
"childhood" diseases that are having such problems with the diseases are the
very people who were immunized as children.
For example, there was an outbreak of whooping cough in the Bay Area a
couple of years ago. This went through schools like the plague. Guess
what, these kids had all had their shots.
The number of deaths and adverse reactions from vaccines far out weigh the
numbers that use to have severe reactions or die from the diseases
themselves. Also, it needs to be noted that knowledge is the real reason
that there have been reductions in most of these diseases--knowledge of
proper personal hygiene, knowledge of proper municipal hygiene (water,
sewage), knowledge of the cause, knowledge in proper care of the patient
once they contract a disease.
And, again, take Hep B. More kids are dying of the vaccine than died of the
disease, plus deaths from the traditional causes of the disease continue
albeit at a reduced rate *due to* knowledge--knowledge of blood screening,
knowledge of pretesting before a woman gets pregnant.
So, as others have stated, do your research, but DON'T just rely on what the
medical profession is telling you by way of the handouts which the
pharmaceutical companies give them. After all, to not vaccinate causes a
big drop in the profits of those multimillionaire drug CEOs.
Lynda, retired Nursing Services Coordinator
----- Original Message -----
From: <androdite@...>
> Adults who are not immunized nor experience those childhood diseases tend
to
> suffer those diseases far worse than the children recieving the
immunizations
> or even contracting the diseases...also...I am a nurse...I have to show an
> immunity to measles before I can work in any facility...because...if I
should
> contract the disease it is possible for me to pass it on to either
pregnant
> patients or pregnant co-workers and measles (I believe the rubella
version)
> is devastating to the unborn. Chicken pox is another disease that is very
> contagious and also devastating to adults...as well as pateints who could
be
> HIV positive...
>
> I appreciate a parent not wanting to put thier children thruogh the pains
of
> immunizations and I understand the question of whether or not it is very
> necessary today...but in the inner city populations and in the immigrant
> populations (as well as poverty populations) we are seeing a rise in those
> very diseases that the vaccines where supposed to have nearly wiped out.
> Imagine going to the local store and exposing your child to the
neighborhood
> immigrant who has diptheria...without the vaccine...your non-immunized
child
> has a greater risk of contracting the disease...and I can tell you there
is
> nothing sadder than watching a young child struggle to breath with
whooping
> cough...almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
> chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
>
> I hope this isn't to inflammatory for this group...I know ya'll have very
> strong beliefs about what ya'll choose as parents...I can only speak from
my
> experiences...and what I see in my profession. You, as parents have to
> decide what sort of measures you are going to take to protect your
children
> not only as children but even as they grow into adults...You have to
decide
> that the life ya'll are living is going to be good enough to protect your
> children from those diseases that we vaccinate against...and you have to
> decide if the descisions you make now are worth the consequences your
> children may have to pay when they are adults...
>
> I chose to vaccinate...long before I became educated enough to understand
the
> pro's and con's of the issue...and when I finally became educated enough
to
> understand the choice I had made...I also became educated enough to be
able
> to realize how devastating those diseases are...and also educated enough
to
> learn that despite the near disappearance of those diseases...they are
also
> on the rise again...so I am glad about the choice I made...
>
> I don't know what else to say about the this topic...expect to do alot of
> research...not just the opinions of those on this list...but contact the
> local health department, ask for statistics for your area, think about
> possible future choices that you mite make in where you live, if you
decide
> not to vaccinate...and decide to move to another area...research that
> area...find the statistics for that area...although statistics are just
> numbers...at any moment we could become a statistic...check out the
diseases
> that we are vaccinated against...learn about the long term effects that
the
> disease causes just in case your children happen to contract it some time
in
> their lives...Polio can leave some one to live the rest of thier lives in
a
> wheelchair...Mumps can leave a boy sterile and unable to have children (do
> you really want to take the chance of not having grandchildren from your
> sons?)...Chicken Pox can leave someone severely disfigured, can affect the
> breathing and swallowing ability during the process of the
> disease...Diptheria is often fatal...tetnus is fatal as well as
excruciating
> painful...Look this stuff up in the library or on the internet...don't go
> into such a life affecting descision as to not vaccinate your children
> without being fully informed...there is more to the issue than not being
able
> to attend public school or daycare...
>
> I hoped that I created enough questions that you will not just jump into
the
> descision...
>
> Blessed Be...
> Lhiza
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/2/2001 8:48:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
androdite@... writes:
I guess I am not alone! Dawn
androdite@... writes:
I chose to vaccinate...
I guess I am not alone! Dawn
Valerie Stewart
almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
***My mother *did* look sad when she realized I got hard measles from the
stupid vaccine...I still have the scar from the shot over 30 years later,
too.
Valerie in Tacoma
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
***My mother *did* look sad when she realized I got hard measles from the
stupid vaccine...I still have the scar from the shot over 30 years later,
too.
Valerie in Tacoma
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/2/01 14:50:47 Uhr, vlos@... writes:
<< almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
it. They are not 100% effective.
kimme unschooling mama to Rebecca(7/24/85), Amanda(7/6/88),
Benjamin(5/15/92), Gabriel(4/7/95), Mary(12/6/97), and Samuel(2/19/00)
<< almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
>>A vaccine is not a guarantee that one won't contract the disease...far from
it. They are not 100% effective.
kimme unschooling mama to Rebecca(7/24/85), Amanda(7/6/88),
Benjamin(5/15/92), Gabriel(4/7/95), Mary(12/6/97), and Samuel(2/19/00)
dawn
>hmmm....most people i know who choose not to vaccinate are fully aware
> almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
> chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
>
thattheir kids could get these diseases. at least I am. My son had
measles (we think) which he contracted from a vaccinated child. I did my
research and dealt with it. I don't know anyone who has made thedecision
not to vaccinate easily and w/o research. I've discussed these issues
with my doctor and other medical professionals as well. And, fwiw, any
vaccinated child could also get any disease s/he was vaccinated for.
d
Unschooling.com
> In a message dated 2/2/01 14:50:47 Uhr, vlos@... writes:I know two mothers who look at their children and feel overwhelming grief
>
> << almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
> chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
> >>
>
that they allowed them to be vaccinated, as they feel their children became
autistic because of the MMR vaccine. It's just too complicated of an issue
to use shame and guilt as a way to control the choices we have.
LisaKK
Lynda
Not only that, even if one doesn't get the "childhood" disease at the age
considered the norm, these carefully vaccinated folks are now getting those
"childhood" diseases in their late teens and as adults and are not going
through them with the relative ease most children do!
Lynda
considered the norm, these carefully vaccinated folks are now getting those
"childhood" diseases in their late teens and as adults and are not going
through them with the relative ease most children do!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <squeaksoup@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Regarding Immunizations...
>
> In a message dated 2/2/01 14:50:47 Uhr, vlos@... writes:
>
> << almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
> chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
> >>
>
> A vaccine is not a guarantee that one won't contract the disease...far
from
> it. They are not 100% effective.
> kimme unschooling mama to Rebecca(7/24/85), Amanda(7/6/88),
> Benjamin(5/15/92), Gabriel(4/7/95), Mary(12/6/97), and Samuel(2/19/00)
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
Sue
> Not only that, even if one doesn't get the "childhood" disease at the agethose
> considered the norm, these carefully vaccinated folks are now getting
> "childhood" diseases in their late teens and as adults and are not goingLynda, I agree with you again.... I'm really starting to worry now.
> through them with the relative ease most children do!
>
> Lynda
I know a teenage girl who had been vaccinated against measles as a child so
was therefore "immune" to it. Maybe she was/is, she never had measles,
however this fake "immunity" doesn't seem to be able to be passed onto the
unborn child. Measles was almost exclusively seen in children over 12
months of age, but now with all these young Mom's with immunity from
vaccines instead of from fighting the illness there is an alarming increase
in babies getting measles. The one I am speaking of had to watch her 4
month old baby become very ill with measles at an age where nature almost
completely assured that it wouldn't happen.
> > << almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase sheAnd as sad as a Mother watching her child screaming for three days straight
> > chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> > vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
because of the vaccine, and being told that he is having a "cerebal"
reaction to it, which may or may not do brain damage. The guilt she feels
is just as bad, if not worse because she wasn't informed and blames herself
for just trusting the doctor's advice.
Or watching as an "immunised" child almost dies in her arms of pnuemonia, a
complication of whooping cough, or watch another of her "immunised" children
go from a healthy 15lb 6 month old to a sickly 11lb 9 month old because he
couldn't hold down any food due to the coughing fits assosciated with
whooping cough.
Sue
Lynda
That is the type guilt trip that pro-vaccinators put on folks. All mothers
suffer if their children get ill even if it is the common cold. However, I
don't think putting this sort of nonsense forward is quite in the mode of
doing anything positive.
IMHO, since children still get whooping cough, measles, mumps, rubella and
chicken pox even if they are vaccinated and as young adults/older teenagers
are now getting all the disease they would have gotten as children in spite
of having been good little soldiers and gotten their mandatory vaccinations
which the vast majority would have relatively breezed through, that throwing
guilt trips is counter productive.
Vaccinations are a gamble, not vaccinating is a gamble. However, folks need
to go into it with their eyes wide open instead of simply accepting what
pharmaceutical companies tell them in their nice shiney little pamphlets
that leave out the stats and all the adverse reactions and number of deaths.
Lynda
suffer if their children get ill even if it is the common cold. However, I
don't think putting this sort of nonsense forward is quite in the mode of
doing anything positive.
IMHO, since children still get whooping cough, measles, mumps, rubella and
chicken pox even if they are vaccinated and as young adults/older teenagers
are now getting all the disease they would have gotten as children in spite
of having been good little soldiers and gotten their mandatory vaccinations
which the vast majority would have relatively breezed through, that throwing
guilt trips is counter productive.
Vaccinations are a gamble, not vaccinating is a gamble. However, folks need
to go into it with their eyes wide open instead of simply accepting what
pharmaceutical companies tell them in their nice shiney little pamphlets
that leave out the stats and all the adverse reactions and number of deaths.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: " Valerie Stewart" <vlos@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Regarding Immunizations...
>
> almost as sad is seeing the guilt in the mother's eyes becuase she
> chose not to vaccinate and she finally realizes that if her child was
> vaccinated she wouldn't be suffering with the disease...
>
> ***My mother *did* look sad when she realized I got hard measles from the
> stupid vaccine...I still have the scar from the shot over 30 years later,
> too.
>
> Valerie in Tacoma
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>