raising dogs
Shelley A Stefanic
>Recently my kids decided to raise dogs and have bought breeding >stockand have puppies that need constant care.
After recovering from apoplectic shock at reading this, I read on and
then checked to see if anyone else had commented. No one else did, so I
will. I do not know where you are located, but in the U.S. there is a
serious pet overpopulation problem. Millions of cats and dogs (that
includes puppies and kittens) are put to sleep EACH DAY because there are
not enough PERMANENT homes for them. I do not know if Canada or Britain
are in much better shape. There is not a huge market for mixed breed or
badly bred pure bred dogs. Dog breeding is something of a science and
love that should only be undertaken after much experience and research.
Also, a responsible breeder should be concerned about the life of their
"stock" and their offspring from the cradle to the grave, so to speak.
> And the dog thing was their idea not mine. I do help out but it isAny dog breeder or animal shelter will tell you that as the adult in the
> their business.
house, the dog is ultimately the adults responsibility. These are living
creatures, not a rock collection.
> the kids are reading dog books aloud, learning how to ...This is something that should have been done BEFORE the dogs or puppies
arrival. Along with genetics and numerous contacts with current breeders
since you are planning to breed.
If teaching children responsibility, maybe they should go to the local
shelter or pound and volunteer - it will help them find out how and why
many animals end up there. To help them learn the miracle of birth and
life, the shelter/pound can also show you the miracle, or rather, tragedy
of death of many wonderful creatures who want nothing more then to be
loved THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.
I am sorry if I am being rude. This issue is very dear to me. I am
shaking as I write this. Some years ago I was employed at the Chicago of
the Humane Society and was present for the death of many animals. Most
were loving, wonderful dogs and cats of all breeds, mixes and ages.
Their only sin was that they existed past the point that there owner
cared and the shelter had space. Animal welfare is a concern I will have
until my death because of that experience, and one I hope to pass on to
my children. PLEASE check into neutering and spaying your dogs offspring
and finding responsible homes for any puppies you place. Your dog may
have a litter of 8 puppies. Even if you place each of those 8 puppies,
each of them could have a litter of 8 puppies and so on.
~Shelley S.
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/29/2001 12:16:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sveetp@... writes:
<< his issue is very dear to me. I am
shaking as I write this. Some years ago I was employed at the Chicago of
the Humane Society and was present for the death of many animals. >>
I, too, worked in a Humane Society. Holding an animal while euthanized isn't
a pleasant experience and I urge anyone who is thinking of letting their
critters have more critters to consider the number of animals who do end up
in a shelter. Bunnies are another animal who get a bum deal. Bought at Easter
they often end up in the shelter or dumped somewhere because the owners
hadn't a clue on what they needed.
Teri
Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>
Pre-order's available now!
Assistant Editor of <A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/Seedling">eGroups :
Seedling</A>
For more information see:
<A HREF="http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/default.htm">Homeschooling -
Christian Unschooling - Natural Learning</A>
sveetp@... writes:
<< his issue is very dear to me. I am
shaking as I write this. Some years ago I was employed at the Chicago of
the Humane Society and was present for the death of many animals. >>
I, too, worked in a Humane Society. Holding an animal while euthanized isn't
a pleasant experience and I urge anyone who is thinking of letting their
critters have more critters to consider the number of animals who do end up
in a shelter. Bunnies are another animal who get a bum deal. Bought at Easter
they often end up in the shelter or dumped somewhere because the owners
hadn't a clue on what they needed.
Teri
Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>
Pre-order's available now!
Assistant Editor of <A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/Seedling">eGroups :
Seedling</A>
For more information see:
<A HREF="http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/default.htm">Homeschooling -
Christian Unschooling - Natural Learning</A>
[email protected]
Gee, maybe you should ask us more about what we are doing instead of
attacking us. Our pets, not breeding stock, are neutered. It would seem
rather silly to neuter our breeding stock now wouldn't it.
It is a shame that too many animals are killed whether it is a no longer
wanted pet, an unwanted litter of kittens, or beef cattle. I understand where
you are coming from but maybe you should be clear on your facts before you
start telling us what to do.
First off my children are 17 to 11 yrs in age. They are not small children
who have no idea what they are getting into. They know so much about animals,
including dogs, that it amazes me. They are not the idiots that you are
portraying them to be. I did not have my children start raising animals to
teach them responsibility. I agreed to go along with them and help them. In
other words, I support their dreams and ambitions. I really do not appreciate
you telling me that we are not smart enough to understand the science of
breeding. I cannot believe that you think we would actually be breeding mixed
breeds, give us some credit. My kids have a great love for animals. That is
why they exercise and train their animals daily and would never leave them in
little cages like some. They have been training dogs now for several years,
using our pets as their subjects. And may I say that I am amazed at what
those dogs can learn to do. Two of my children are very interested in raising
and training dogs for the disabled and are at the moment waiting for some
information we ordered about doing this. It is their dream to raise dogs for
the disabled. In case you did not know there is a big shortage of dogs
trained in this field.
If you are really wanting to get rid of all dog breeders then do it. Go for
it, write your congress or whatever, do what it takes, if that is your
desire. Be passionate about it and fight to do away with dogs as pets. Do
what you think is best. Make a stand. Exactly what will happen to the
existence of dogs if it becomes illegal to breed them is a thought. After all
it sounded like you are against the breeding of all dogs not just the ones
that are allowed to have unwanted pups. Usually dog breeders do not have
unwanted pups.
I call the pups we have now breeding stock because they are pure breed dogs
that we do plan to breed someday. That does not mean that they are not loved,
respected, given attention to, and apart of this family. We never plan to
become a large breeder with hundreds of dogs.
Since we live 60 miles form the local animal shelter the kids will not be
volunteering there anytime soon but you may be interested in knowing that our
pets did come from that pound.
creatures, not a rock collection. <<
Guess they should try raising responsible children. I am insulted that you
think I or my children are not intelligent to know that animals take more
care than rocks. You are lumping me in with people who drop their dogs
(animals) off at shelters to be killed. I do not, and will not. Maybe instead
of working at the shelter, watching animals be put to sleep you should have
been involved in finding ways for low income people to get their pets
neutered. It is an expense that many find hard to afford.
I have a big problem with way animals are raised for butcher. Not the small
farmer but the big industry of beef, pork, and etc., the meat that finds its
way to your store shelves. I will not eat it because I refuse to support it.
But I am not going to jump down your throat if you choose to eat meat. It is
your choice. You are blaming me and dog breeders for the way people cruely
throw away their pets or let them breed unresponsibly. Put the blame where it
is due, on the pet owner. Just how is a pet breeder suppose to know if a
perspective buyer is going to take care of their pets. Put the blame where it
belongs. Make it harder to dumo pets, but put the blame where due.
Yes, you were rude.
Know us before you condemn us.
Candace
attacking us. Our pets, not breeding stock, are neutered. It would seem
rather silly to neuter our breeding stock now wouldn't it.
It is a shame that too many animals are killed whether it is a no longer
wanted pet, an unwanted litter of kittens, or beef cattle. I understand where
you are coming from but maybe you should be clear on your facts before you
start telling us what to do.
First off my children are 17 to 11 yrs in age. They are not small children
who have no idea what they are getting into. They know so much about animals,
including dogs, that it amazes me. They are not the idiots that you are
portraying them to be. I did not have my children start raising animals to
teach them responsibility. I agreed to go along with them and help them. In
other words, I support their dreams and ambitions. I really do not appreciate
you telling me that we are not smart enough to understand the science of
breeding. I cannot believe that you think we would actually be breeding mixed
breeds, give us some credit. My kids have a great love for animals. That is
why they exercise and train their animals daily and would never leave them in
little cages like some. They have been training dogs now for several years,
using our pets as their subjects. And may I say that I am amazed at what
those dogs can learn to do. Two of my children are very interested in raising
and training dogs for the disabled and are at the moment waiting for some
information we ordered about doing this. It is their dream to raise dogs for
the disabled. In case you did not know there is a big shortage of dogs
trained in this field.
If you are really wanting to get rid of all dog breeders then do it. Go for
it, write your congress or whatever, do what it takes, if that is your
desire. Be passionate about it and fight to do away with dogs as pets. Do
what you think is best. Make a stand. Exactly what will happen to the
existence of dogs if it becomes illegal to breed them is a thought. After all
it sounded like you are against the breeding of all dogs not just the ones
that are allowed to have unwanted pups. Usually dog breeders do not have
unwanted pups.
I call the pups we have now breeding stock because they are pure breed dogs
that we do plan to breed someday. That does not mean that they are not loved,
respected, given attention to, and apart of this family. We never plan to
become a large breeder with hundreds of dogs.
Since we live 60 miles form the local animal shelter the kids will not be
volunteering there anytime soon but you may be interested in knowing that our
pets did come from that pound.
>>Any dog breeder or animal shelter will tell you that as the adult in thehouse, the dog is ultimately the adults responsibility. These are living
creatures, not a rock collection. <<
Guess they should try raising responsible children. I am insulted that you
think I or my children are not intelligent to know that animals take more
care than rocks. You are lumping me in with people who drop their dogs
(animals) off at shelters to be killed. I do not, and will not. Maybe instead
of working at the shelter, watching animals be put to sleep you should have
been involved in finding ways for low income people to get their pets
neutered. It is an expense that many find hard to afford.
I have a big problem with way animals are raised for butcher. Not the small
farmer but the big industry of beef, pork, and etc., the meat that finds its
way to your store shelves. I will not eat it because I refuse to support it.
But I am not going to jump down your throat if you choose to eat meat. It is
your choice. You are blaming me and dog breeders for the way people cruely
throw away their pets or let them breed unresponsibly. Put the blame where it
is due, on the pet owner. Just how is a pet breeder suppose to know if a
perspective buyer is going to take care of their pets. Put the blame where it
belongs. Make it harder to dumo pets, but put the blame where due.
Yes, you were rude.
Know us before you condemn us.
Candace
Lynda
Whoa, I missed that post! Shelley, I am in complete agreement with you!
Raising dogs is NOT a child's business.
If they wanted to "raise" a puppy, then they could have contacted 4-H, Guide
Dogs for the Blind or Canine Companions and done something useful instead of
adding to the pet population problem.
No one should "decide" to raise dogs without knowing a whole lot about
genetics, the particular breed in question, showing, training and health
issues.
And, as a former breeder of show dogs and stockdogs, I seriously doubt that
any children had the $1000 minimum it takes to actually buy breeding stock
and not just puppy mill stock which just perpetuates the problems.
Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies and
kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count the
ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
death)!
Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately places
more animals in shelters to be put to death!
Raising dogs is NOT a child's business.
If they wanted to "raise" a puppy, then they could have contacted 4-H, Guide
Dogs for the Blind or Canine Companions and done something useful instead of
adding to the pet population problem.
No one should "decide" to raise dogs without knowing a whole lot about
genetics, the particular breed in question, showing, training and health
issues.
And, as a former breeder of show dogs and stockdogs, I seriously doubt that
any children had the $1000 minimum it takes to actually buy breeding stock
and not just puppy mill stock which just perpetuates the problems.
Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies and
kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count the
ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
death)!
Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately places
more animals in shelters to be put to death!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shelley A Stefanic" <sveetp@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:56 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] raising dogs
>
>
> >Recently my kids decided to raise dogs and have bought breeding >stock
> and have puppies that need constant care.
>
> After recovering from apoplectic shock at reading this, I read on and
> then checked to see if anyone else had commented. No one else did, so I
> will. I do not know where you are located, but in the U.S. there is a
> serious pet overpopulation problem. Millions of cats and dogs (that
> includes puppies and kittens) are put to sleep EACH DAY because there are
> not enough PERMANENT homes for them. I do not know if Canada or Britain
> are in much better shape. There is not a huge market for mixed breed or
> badly bred pure bred dogs. Dog breeding is something of a science and
> love that should only be undertaken after much experience and research.
> Also, a responsible breeder should be concerned about the life of their
> "stock" and their offspring from the cradle to the grave, so to speak.
>
> > And the dog thing was their idea not mine. I do help out but it is
> > their business.
>
> Any dog breeder or animal shelter will tell you that as the adult in the
> house, the dog is ultimately the adults responsibility. These are living
> creatures, not a rock collection.
>
> > the kids are reading dog books aloud, learning how to ...
>
> This is something that should have been done BEFORE the dogs or puppies
> arrival. Along with genetics and numerous contacts with current breeders
> since you are planning to breed.
>
> If teaching children responsibility, maybe they should go to the local
> shelter or pound and volunteer - it will help them find out how and why
> many animals end up there. To help them learn the miracle of birth and
> life, the shelter/pound can also show you the miracle, or rather, tragedy
> of death of many wonderful creatures who want nothing more then to be
> loved THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.
>
> I am sorry if I am being rude. This issue is very dear to me. I am
> shaking as I write this. Some years ago I was employed at the Chicago of
> the Humane Society and was present for the death of many animals. Most
> were loving, wonderful dogs and cats of all breeds, mixes and ages.
> Their only sin was that they existed past the point that there owner
> cared and the shelter had space. Animal welfare is a concern I will have
> until my death because of that experience, and one I hope to pass on to
> my children. PLEASE check into neutering and spaying your dogs offspring
> and finding responsible homes for any puppies you place. Your dog may
> have a litter of 8 puppies. Even if you place each of those 8 puppies,
> each of them could have a litter of 8 puppies and so on.
>
> ~Shelley S.
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
Lynda
The other ones that are real high turn overs are ignuanas and snakes. They
are "cute" when they first get them and then they get big and high
maintenance.
Lynda
are "cute" when they first get them and then they get big and high
maintenance.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <unschoolr2@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raising dogs
> In a message dated 01/29/2001 12:16:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> sveetp@... writes:
>
> << his issue is very dear to me. I am
> shaking as I write this. Some years ago I was employed at the Chicago of
> the Humane Society and was present for the death of many animals. >>
>
> I, too, worked in a Humane Society. Holding an animal while euthanized
isn't
> a pleasant experience and I urge anyone who is thinking of letting their
> critters have more critters to consider the number of animals who do end
up
> in a shelter. Bunnies are another animal who get a bum deal. Bought at
Easter
> they often end up in the shelter or dumped somewhere because the owners
> hadn't a clue on what they needed.
> Teri
>
>
>
> Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
> Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>
> Pre-order's available now!
> Assistant Editor of <A
HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/Seedling">eGroups :
> Seedling</A>
> For more information see:
> <A
HREF="http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/default.htm">Homeschooling -
> Christian Unschooling - Natural Learning</A>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
Lynda
All puppies in a litter are not breeding stock. And just because they are
purebred does not make them breeding stock either. Some litters produce no
animals that should be used for breeding stock even if they are purebred.
the way the e-mail was written suggested that you purchased the dogs and
then read about them.
Responsible breeders sell their "pet" stock with a prepaid neuter
agreements. And, just a note, backyard breeders are responsible for a large
percentage of the dogs and cats in the shelters.
Lynda
purebred does not make them breeding stock either. Some litters produce no
animals that should be used for breeding stock even if they are purebred.
the way the e-mail was written suggested that you purchased the dogs and
then read about them.
Responsible breeders sell their "pet" stock with a prepaid neuter
agreements. And, just a note, backyard breeders are responsible for a large
percentage of the dogs and cats in the shelters.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <discovery6@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raising dogs
> Gee, maybe you should ask us more about what we are doing instead of
> attacking us. Our pets, not breeding stock, are neutered. It would seem
> rather silly to neuter our breeding stock now wouldn't it.
>
> It is a shame that too many animals are killed whether it is a no longer
> wanted pet, an unwanted litter of kittens, or beef cattle. I understand
where
> you are coming from but maybe you should be clear on your facts before you
> start telling us what to do.
>
> First off my children are 17 to 11 yrs in age. They are not small children
> who have no idea what they are getting into. They know so much about
animals,
> including dogs, that it amazes me. They are not the idiots that you are
> portraying them to be. I did not have my children start raising animals to
> teach them responsibility. I agreed to go along with them and help them.
In
> other words, I support their dreams and ambitions. I really do not
appreciate
> you telling me that we are not smart enough to understand the science of
> breeding. I cannot believe that you think we would actually be breeding
mixed
> breeds, give us some credit. My kids have a great love for animals. That
is
> why they exercise and train their animals daily and would never leave them
in
> little cages like some. They have been training dogs now for several
years,
> using our pets as their subjects. And may I say that I am amazed at what
> those dogs can learn to do. Two of my children are very interested in
raising
> and training dogs for the disabled and are at the moment waiting for some
> information we ordered about doing this. It is their dream to raise dogs
for
> the disabled. In case you did not know there is a big shortage of dogs
> trained in this field.
>
> If you are really wanting to get rid of all dog breeders then do it. Go
for
> it, write your congress or whatever, do what it takes, if that is your
> desire. Be passionate about it and fight to do away with dogs as pets. Do
> what you think is best. Make a stand. Exactly what will happen to the
> existence of dogs if it becomes illegal to breed them is a thought. After
all
> it sounded like you are against the breeding of all dogs not just the ones
> that are allowed to have unwanted pups. Usually dog breeders do not have
> unwanted pups.
>
> I call the pups we have now breeding stock because they are pure breed
dogs
> that we do plan to breed someday. That does not mean that they are not
loved,
> respected, given attention to, and apart of this family. We never plan to
> become a large breeder with hundreds of dogs.
>
> Since we live 60 miles form the local animal shelter the kids will not be
> volunteering there anytime soon but you may be interested in knowing that
our
> pets did come from that pound.
>
> >>Any dog breeder or animal shelter will tell you that as the adult in the
> house, the dog is ultimately the adults responsibility. These are living
> creatures, not a rock collection. <<
>
> Guess they should try raising responsible children. I am insulted that you
> think I or my children are not intelligent to know that animals take more
> care than rocks. You are lumping me in with people who drop their dogs
> (animals) off at shelters to be killed. I do not, and will not. Maybe
instead
> of working at the shelter, watching animals be put to sleep you should
have
> been involved in finding ways for low income people to get their pets
> neutered. It is an expense that many find hard to afford.
>
> I have a big problem with way animals are raised for butcher. Not the
small
> farmer but the big industry of beef, pork, and etc., the meat that finds
its
> way to your store shelves. I will not eat it because I refuse to support
it.
> But I am not going to jump down your throat if you choose to eat meat. It
is
> your choice. You are blaming me and dog breeders for the way people cruely
> throw away their pets or let them breed unresponsibly. Put the blame where
it
> is due, on the pet owner. Just how is a pet breeder suppose to know if a
> perspective buyer is going to take care of their pets. Put the blame where
it
> belongs. Make it harder to dumo pets, but put the blame where due.
>
> Yes, you were rude.
>
> Know us before you condemn us.
> Candace
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2001 2:13:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
discovery6@... writes:
I am so glad you responded Candace, and in such an eloquent, respectful
manner. You remained on the "high road" and should be congratulated for
showing such restraint. I was amazed and dismayed at the way you were
verbally attacked.
Kudos to you, Dawn
discovery6@... writes:
Yes, you were rude.
Know us before you condemn us.
Candace
I am so glad you responded Candace, and in such an eloquent, respectful
manner. You remained on the "high road" and should be congratulated for
showing such restraint. I was amazed and dismayed at the way you were
verbally attacked.
Kudos to you, Dawn
[email protected]
<< Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies and
kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count the
ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
death)!
<<Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately places
more animals in shelters to be put to death! >>
I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition of this strident attitude (from more than
one person here) and the pro-life tirades that homeschoolers have to endure.
There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are. They suffer
for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog, and yet the argument
that they can have an entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is
pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let their
children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights they want
to control.
Maybe NEITHER subject has anything to do with unschooling!
Sandra
kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count the
ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
death)!
<<Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately places
more animals in shelters to be put to death! >>
I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition of this strident attitude (from more than
one person here) and the pro-life tirades that homeschoolers have to endure.
There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are. They suffer
for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog, and yet the argument
that they can have an entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is
pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let their
children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights they want
to control.
Maybe NEITHER subject has anything to do with unschooling!
Sandra
Demetria
I agree. I have left the message board for a while because it gets tiresome,
the whole abortion thing!!
the whole abortion thing!!
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raising dogs
> << Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies
and
> kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count
the
> ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
> death)!
>
> <<Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately
places
> more animals in shelters to be put to death! >>
>
> I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition of this strident attitude (from more
than
> one person here) and the pro-life tirades that homeschoolers have to
endure.
>
> There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are. They
suffer
> for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog, and yet the
argument
> that they can have an entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is
> pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let
their
> children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights they
want
> to control.
>
>
> Maybe NEITHER subject has anything to do with unschooling!
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>
Lynda
We use to do rescue but are so far off the beaten path now that the beasties
of our fav breeds just aren't being dumped in this area. Which is a good
thing <g> but we kept the last rescue dog and he is still with us with all
his quirks. We're not sure how old he is but he is at least 12. He was the
result of all the bad things that happen. He is obviously from show stock
but in Keeshonds you can't have what are called "dirty" feet and he does.
Who ever bought him never socialised him and he would appear to have been
locked up in a small backyard for at least 2 years without any company. He
was supposedly 2 but was in actuality between 4 and 6 and had never been on
a leash. It is sad what happens when folks don't realise the amount of work
that goes into caring for a long haired breed.
We always screened buyers and made sure they knew exactly what they were
getting into. It is too easy for folks to buy something "cute" and then get
tired of it when it grows up. It is like what happened when 101 Dalmations
came out, literally thousands of Dalmations ended up in shelters.
Glad to hear you will be doing Ridgeback rescue as they have a special
personality that requires special people.
Lynda
of our fav breeds just aren't being dumped in this area. Which is a good
thing <g> but we kept the last rescue dog and he is still with us with all
his quirks. We're not sure how old he is but he is at least 12. He was the
result of all the bad things that happen. He is obviously from show stock
but in Keeshonds you can't have what are called "dirty" feet and he does.
Who ever bought him never socialised him and he would appear to have been
locked up in a small backyard for at least 2 years without any company. He
was supposedly 2 but was in actuality between 4 and 6 and had never been on
a leash. It is sad what happens when folks don't realise the amount of work
that goes into caring for a long haired breed.
We always screened buyers and made sure they knew exactly what they were
getting into. It is too easy for folks to buy something "cute" and then get
tired of it when it grows up. It is like what happened when 101 Dalmations
came out, literally thousands of Dalmations ended up in shelters.
Glad to hear you will be doing Ridgeback rescue as they have a special
personality that requires special people.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Ferguson" <crma@...>
>
> Responsible breeders will also take back any of their animals at any
> time in the animal's life.
>
> I am seriously considering becoming part of Ridgeback Rescue when
> my children are older - being a foster family for animals who need
> placement. I am a Ridgeback lover but I would not consider breeding
> them!
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
Lynda
Perhaps you can explain why it is that when this topics comes up someone
always jumps in with the same or similar statement to the one you just
voiced.
I seriously doubt, just to play devil's advocate here, that too many humans
suffer more than the animal that is put alive into a closed chamber that
then has all the oxygen slowly removed from it.
Using an animal as an educational experience for children would, indeed,
seem to fall under the category of unschooling, or homeschooling or even
public schooling, for that matter.
To compare a discussion of the rights and wrongs of puppy mills and backyard
breeders and the resulting wholesale slaughter, not euthenasia (definately
not euthenasia), of thousands of animals each year with the supposed
pro-life tirades is a bit of a stretch. As far as that goes, I haven't seen
that homeschoolers have been singled out to be on the receiving end of
pro-life tirades.
Are you perhaps implying that those of us who are anti-puppy mills are also
pro-lifers that "pooh pooh" child abuse issues? You really aren't to
terribly clear and where you were going with this other than it was clearly
a rant was clear either.
Lynda
always jumps in with the same or similar statement to the one you just
voiced.
I seriously doubt, just to play devil's advocate here, that too many humans
suffer more than the animal that is put alive into a closed chamber that
then has all the oxygen slowly removed from it.
Using an animal as an educational experience for children would, indeed,
seem to fall under the category of unschooling, or homeschooling or even
public schooling, for that matter.
To compare a discussion of the rights and wrongs of puppy mills and backyard
breeders and the resulting wholesale slaughter, not euthenasia (definately
not euthenasia), of thousands of animals each year with the supposed
pro-life tirades is a bit of a stretch. As far as that goes, I haven't seen
that homeschoolers have been singled out to be on the receiving end of
pro-life tirades.
Are you perhaps implying that those of us who are anti-puppy mills are also
pro-lifers that "pooh pooh" child abuse issues? You really aren't to
terribly clear and where you were going with this other than it was clearly
a rant was clear either.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] raising dogs
> << Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies
and
> kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to count
the
> ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that starve to
> death)!
>
> <<Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that ultimately
places
> more animals in shelters to be put to death! >>
>
> I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition of this strident attitude (from more
than
> one person here) and the pro-life tirades that homeschoolers have to
endure.
>
> There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are. They
suffer
> for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog, and yet the
argument
> that they can have an entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is
> pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let
their
> children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights they
want
> to control.
>
>
> Maybe NEITHER subject has anything to do with unschooling!
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
[email protected]
I am somewhat confused by your post. I live in northern Illinois and
we have several no-kill shelters here and there is a demand for
puppies, kittens and previously owned pets. As much as putting
animals in gas chambers is an upsetting and unpleasant thought, I'm
not sure how it really ties into "pro-life" issues. My understanding
of "pro-life" has to do with humans from conception to death, not
with animals. I will say that I firmly believe there is quite a
distinction between humans and animals.
I find that pro-lifers aren't the ones cramming "choice" down other
people's throats and are not the ones who falsely make claims about
how "choice" helps humanity. It seems that "pro-choicers" have that
market covered. More confusion sets in upon reading,
"There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are.
They suffer for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog,
and yet the argument that they can have an entirely horrible life of
abuse and deprivation is pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in
comfortable homes who don't let their children associate with the
very people whose reproductive rights they want to control."
Am I to understand that children who are to be born into poverty,
abuse or inhuman conditions should be terminated before birth? Or
that human suffering would be under control if "pro-choice" issues
and "reproductive rights" were everyone's belief? What about people
who willingly and lovingly bring their children into the world only
to find that their lives change drastically over time? Examples of
this would be job loss & homelessness; or sickness that creates
poverty for the family; or a divorced woman who takes up with a
boyfriend only to find that he has beaten, raped and killed her
child? The list can go on and on.
And speaking of "reproductive rights they want to control", does
anybody realize that if you are pro-life, pro-natural family
planning, pro-God's will & the faith to do His will, that you are
under constant attack by "pro-choicers"? From family, to doctors, to
other "faithful" people, to strangers or obviously others on this
unschooling list, we never hear the end of it. That strikes me as
ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow our
beliefs. We do live out a testimony to our beliefs and find it
absolutely amazing that so many people are offended by our "pro-life"
attitude and have the nerve to try to shove their opinions down our
throats.
Anybody else out there that has had to endure the comments,
critisisms and assumptions made by others, while being pregnant and
wanting a large family, about sterilization, too many kids, college,
etc.? Just wondering...
Chris
Mommy to Jason (8), Angela (6-1/2), Daniel (3-1/2) and baby due in
March!!!!
we have several no-kill shelters here and there is a demand for
puppies, kittens and previously owned pets. As much as putting
animals in gas chambers is an upsetting and unpleasant thought, I'm
not sure how it really ties into "pro-life" issues. My understanding
of "pro-life" has to do with humans from conception to death, not
with animals. I will say that I firmly believe there is quite a
distinction between humans and animals.
I find that pro-lifers aren't the ones cramming "choice" down other
people's throats and are not the ones who falsely make claims about
how "choice" helps humanity. It seems that "pro-choicers" have that
market covered. More confusion sets in upon reading,
"There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are.
They suffer for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog,
and yet the argument that they can have an entirely horrible life of
abuse and deprivation is pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in
comfortable homes who don't let their children associate with the
very people whose reproductive rights they want to control."
Am I to understand that children who are to be born into poverty,
abuse or inhuman conditions should be terminated before birth? Or
that human suffering would be under control if "pro-choice" issues
and "reproductive rights" were everyone's belief? What about people
who willingly and lovingly bring their children into the world only
to find that their lives change drastically over time? Examples of
this would be job loss & homelessness; or sickness that creates
poverty for the family; or a divorced woman who takes up with a
boyfriend only to find that he has beaten, raped and killed her
child? The list can go on and on.
And speaking of "reproductive rights they want to control", does
anybody realize that if you are pro-life, pro-natural family
planning, pro-God's will & the faith to do His will, that you are
under constant attack by "pro-choicers"? From family, to doctors, to
other "faithful" people, to strangers or obviously others on this
unschooling list, we never hear the end of it. That strikes me as
ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow our
beliefs. We do live out a testimony to our beliefs and find it
absolutely amazing that so many people are offended by our "pro-life"
attitude and have the nerve to try to shove their opinions down our
throats.
Anybody else out there that has had to endure the comments,
critisisms and assumptions made by others, while being pregnant and
wanting a large family, about sterilization, too many kids, college,
etc.? Just wondering...
Chris
Mommy to Jason (8), Angela (6-1/2), Daniel (3-1/2) and baby due in
March!!!!
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> << Again, no offense but thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats,
puppies and
> kittens are put to sleep every year and that doesn't even begin to
count the
> ones that are dumped and left to fend for themselves (spell that
starve to
> death)!
>
> <<Lynda, who hates the whole "miracle of birth" excuse that
ultimately places
> more animals in shelters to be put to death! >>
>
> I'm fascinated by the juxtaposition of this strident attitude (from
more than
> one person here) and the pro-life tirades that homeschoolers have
to endure.
>
> There are children suffering WAY more than euthenized pets are.
They suffer
> for years and YEARS, past the natural lifespan of a dog, and yet
the argument
> that they can have an entirely horrible life of abuse and
deprivation is
> pooh-poohed by right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't
let their
> children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights
they want
> to control.
>
>
> Maybe NEITHER subject has anything to do with unschooling!
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/30/01 3:38:30 PM, cmas100@... writes:
<< That strikes me as
ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow our
beliefs. >>
Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent), and the movies
and photos of little feet.
<< That strikes me as
ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow our
beliefs. >>
Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent), and the movies
and photos of little feet.
Debbie & K.C. Jones
SandraDodd@... wrote:
outside a 'Wee Life' organization? Or trying to pass laws forcing
'pro-choice' upon others? I'm sorry.. I generally keep my views to
myself, but this is the lamest bunch of nonsense I've seen in a long
time. Deb (Mom to Cory 9 1/2 and Jesse 14 months)
>And when WAS the last time we saw 'pro-choice' protesters picketing
> In a message dated 01/30/01 3:38:30 PM, cmas100@... writes:
>
> << That strikes me as
> ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
> people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow our
> beliefs. >>
>
> Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent), and the movies
> and photos of little feet.
outside a 'Wee Life' organization? Or trying to pass laws forcing
'pro-choice' upon others? I'm sorry.. I generally keep my views to
myself, but this is the lamest bunch of nonsense I've seen in a long
time. Deb (Mom to Cory 9 1/2 and Jesse 14 months)
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/01 4:03:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent), and the
movies
and photos of little feet. >>
I thought she was referring to her own family, not speaking for a movement.
Did I miss something?
candice
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent), and the
movies
and photos of little feet. >>
I thought she was referring to her own family, not speaking for a movement.
Did I miss something?
candice
[email protected]
I'm sure that it is known that the laws favor abortion in the U.S.,
and that people who believed that abortion should be legal had to
push their beliefs onto others or in the public eye to get the laws
changed in the first place.
I'm also sure that reasonable people, regardless of your belief on
the subject, know that most people who respect life do not protest in
a violent manner. Unfortunately, no matter what cause is being taken
up by the people, there are some radicals. This is true with women's
rights, minority's rights, government protestors, as well as people
on both sides of abortion. What constitutes violence is obviously an
opinion here since photos of tiny feet or movies depicting the
reality of what abortion is have to come from somewhere. In my
opinion, a violent act had to take place in order for there to be
mutilated body parts. Do people really want to see these images? I
personally don't, but that doesn't hide the fact that these acts are
taking place and we call it "abortion" and it's supposed to be o.k.
Since I was responding to a comment made, "...that they can have an
entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is pooh-poohed by
right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let their
children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights
they want to control.", I'm wondering why it is alright to voice this
strong and not necessarily accurate view, yet it seems so offensive
to some that my view is pro-life. Did I place judgement or call "pro-
choicers" anything but that? Am I responding to left-wing Atheists?
Did I tell anyone that their opinion is "the lamest bunch of nonsense
I've seen in a long time."?
prescribe to the rules of your god. This seems totally unfair and
hypocrital of you.<<
And rights? Someone felt that they had the "right" to label and make
clear their "pro-choice" beliefs, whether I wanted to read it or
not. But that's not shoving something down some of our throats? I
do believe that we all have the "right" to our opinion and free-will,
whether you "prescribe to the rules of my God" or not. Opinion and
free-will were expressed in the original post regarding abortion, yet
this is not unfair or hypocritical of that person. I do not
understand how that can be.
I'd also like to say that my original intention was not to offend the
author or the other users on this site. I see that some of you have
no problem responding to this with the intention to offend. I also
know that your beliefs certainly won't be changed by my posts.
So, if my husband and I want to have several children, it's supposed
to be o.k. for everyone to share with us their opinions regarding
sterilization, birth control and abortion, yet we are not supposed to
share our belief in procreation? Again, I do not understand how that
can be.
It does sadden me to see how compassionate people can be toward the
animals killed daily in our country, but that same compassion does
not seem to spill over to the humans killed daily in our country.
Chris
Mommy to Jason (8), Angela (6-1/2), Daniel (3-1/2) and baby due in
March!!!
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Debbie & K.C. Jones" <debj@c...>
wrote:
and that people who believed that abortion should be legal had to
push their beliefs onto others or in the public eye to get the laws
changed in the first place.
I'm also sure that reasonable people, regardless of your belief on
the subject, know that most people who respect life do not protest in
a violent manner. Unfortunately, no matter what cause is being taken
up by the people, there are some radicals. This is true with women's
rights, minority's rights, government protestors, as well as people
on both sides of abortion. What constitutes violence is obviously an
opinion here since photos of tiny feet or movies depicting the
reality of what abortion is have to come from somewhere. In my
opinion, a violent act had to take place in order for there to be
mutilated body parts. Do people really want to see these images? I
personally don't, but that doesn't hide the fact that these acts are
taking place and we call it "abortion" and it's supposed to be o.k.
Since I was responding to a comment made, "...that they can have an
entirely horrible life of abuse and deprivation is pooh-poohed by
right-wing Christians in comfortable homes who don't let their
children associate with the very people whose reproductive rights
they want to control.", I'm wondering why it is alright to voice this
strong and not necessarily accurate view, yet it seems so offensive
to some that my view is pro-life. Did I place judgement or call "pro-
choicers" anything but that? Am I responding to left-wing Atheists?
Did I tell anyone that their opinion is "the lamest bunch of nonsense
I've seen in a long time."?
>>Do you think that you have some "God Given" right to shove yourbeliefs down our throats, while we have no rights since we don't all
prescribe to the rules of your god. This seems totally unfair and
hypocrital of you.<<
And rights? Someone felt that they had the "right" to label and make
clear their "pro-choice" beliefs, whether I wanted to read it or
not. But that's not shoving something down some of our throats? I
do believe that we all have the "right" to our opinion and free-will,
whether you "prescribe to the rules of my God" or not. Opinion and
free-will were expressed in the original post regarding abortion, yet
this is not unfair or hypocritical of that person. I do not
understand how that can be.
I'd also like to say that my original intention was not to offend the
author or the other users on this site. I see that some of you have
no problem responding to this with the intention to offend. I also
know that your beliefs certainly won't be changed by my posts.
So, if my husband and I want to have several children, it's supposed
to be o.k. for everyone to share with us their opinions regarding
sterilization, birth control and abortion, yet we are not supposed to
share our belief in procreation? Again, I do not understand how that
can be.
It does sadden me to see how compassionate people can be toward the
animals killed daily in our country, but that same compassion does
not seem to spill over to the humans killed daily in our country.
Chris
Mommy to Jason (8), Angela (6-1/2), Daniel (3-1/2) and baby due in
March!!!
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Debbie & K.C. Jones" <debj@c...>
wrote:
>our
>
> SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 01/30/01 3:38:30 PM, cmas100@h... writes:
> >
> > << That strikes me as
> > ironic since we don't go around shoving our beliefs down other
> > people's throats and we don't try to "convince" others to follow
> > beliefs. >>and the movies
> >
> > Not counting laws and abortion clinic protests (some violent),
> > and photos of little feet.dotcom
>
> And when WAS the last time we saw 'pro-choice' protesters picketing
> outside a 'Wee Life' organization? Or trying to pass laws forcing
> 'pro-choice' upon others? I'm sorry.. I generally keep my views to
> myself, but this is the lamest bunch of nonsense I've seen in a long
> time. Deb (Mom to Cory 9 1/2 and Jesse 14 months)
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-
Cindy L.
> So, if my husband and I want to have several children, it's supposedChris,
> to be o.k. for everyone to share with us their opinions regarding
> sterilization, birth control and abortion, yet we are not supposed to
> share our belief in procreation? Again, I do not understand how that
> can be.
>
> > Chris
> Mommy to Jason (8), Angela (6-1/2), Daniel (3-1/2) and baby due in
> March!!!
Personally I just think some people are thoughtless, and therefore often
offend others, whether they intend to or not. I don't think the people who
question your family size are really coming from a pro-choice stance, I
think they're just obnoxious people who probably think everyone should be
just like them. I face the same criticism, but in reverse, we have one
child, and we have no plans for more. I am always amazed by the nerve of
people who tell us how unfair we are, how selfish we are not to provide our
son with his own little sibling playmate. I refuse to explain to any of
them why we have an only child, there is no way to win this conversation,
just as there is no way to win an argument on abortion. These are issues
that people have already made up their minds on, and too often there is no
tolerance nor understanding of anyone who may have a different opinion
(usually due to having a different life experience). So congratulations on
the new baby, and I wish you & your family continued joy & happiness.
Cindy L.
BTW- I am non-religious, with deeply held spiritual beliefs. I am
adamantly pro-choice. I use natural family planning. My pregnancy was
unplanned, and seemingly inconvenient- I took it as a profound gift, and I
never once considered any other option than giving birth, I never had an
ultrasound even though I was in my late 30's at the time- I have never had
such a sense of 'faith' as I did with my pregnancy. I go by my intuition.
I understand that other people are guided (or not) by their own intuition,
or beliefs. I try my best not to judge the choices that other people
make...... Just to explain where I'm coming from. (I also understand that
many people think I'm just flaky, that's ok, too.)