Dorinda Oakes

Bobbie
My public school experience was much like yours I was liked by the popular kids but they
wouldn't "hang around" me because I refused to puick on the nerds, I was liked by the nerds but
they chose not to "socialize" with me either. I did not like the kids at school because they
teased me. I got detention once for bringing a Bible to school to read in study hall. (Ironic
thing is that My kids use this as a text book) I lived the furtest away from our school and had no
other Families in my "neighborhood" Unfortunatly I did not discover Jehovah untill I was in my
20's and was baptised in 1996. I wish I had known him as a child. At any rate the courses at the
kingdomhall are a great help to our homeschooling. I Love the Book we are finishing, I never found
world history so interesting as when it was applied through Daniel's Prophecy! It was surprising
to see the explaination of these recent events found in a book as old as Daniel.
Dorinda
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:34:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bobbie <insomniaaks@...>
> Subject: Re: Homeschooling and social handicaps (long)
>
> The only time my son is singled
> > out,
> > its by adults , ignorant, rude adults. When hes
> > grown,
> > in whatever job he chooses, I sincerely doubt that
> > his
> > coworkers will know, or care if he was homeschooled.
> > The big picture for me is his happiness and
> > security,
> > 2 things he never felt during the 2 years I allowed
> > ps
> > to undermine everything I believe in. Never again.
>
>
> I have to reply here, cuz that is so true about adults
> and their close mindedness. I am the 5th of 6
> children, the first four are 12-17 yrs older than me
> (quite a gap), and of them ONE graduated from ps. (Of
> her own choice). The rest my dad had to fight to be
> able to "homeschool" (which ended up being
> unschooling) them, and so by the time I was old enough
> to put in school, he knew he didn't really want to,
> but he had had so much negative thoughts on
> homeschooling thrown his way (that his kids wouldnt'
> learn as much, that they would be socially and
> academically handicapped, that their lives would be
> too sheltered, etc, etc, AND that the kids actually
> LIKED school and he was depriving them)
> that I remember after I had turned 5, he, very
> reluctantly sighed and asked me "do you WANT to go to
> school? If you WANT to I guess you can." and I
> remember thinking, I am soooo cool. I can decide
> whether or not to go to school. and I said no, (to his
> delight)and stayed at home all that year, learning at
> home in absolutely no structured way, just my mom
> creatively teaching me in play that my friends never
> dreamt of having, both my parents and older siblings
> reading to me several times a day and ALWAYS before
> bed. Then the next year my "best friend" started first
> grade and all the other kids that I knew from my
> religion were starting school too, so I decided I
> wanted to go. And to tell the truth in first grade I
> had a blast. But only becuz I happened to have a
> smaller class and the coolest teacher there, who
> didn't believe in traditional school methods and
> pacing. and thought if we wanted to learn cursive in
> first grade then she would teach us, if I wanted to
> use three pages and three days worth of story in my
> squiggle book, as opposed to the assigned one
> page/day, then 'go for it, you'll be a great writer',
> and if we still needed to count on our fingers to
> figure things out, then we were allowed to. And here's
> the cool part. I was further advanced in reading than
> the other kids who had faithfully gone to kindergarten
> to learn their abc's like good little "normal" kids,
> so I got to go a different grade and classroom for a
> special reading time and sometimes read to the younger
> kids. I stayed in ps thru 3rd grade, (in 2nd, I saw my
> actual teacher about a third of the year cuz of
> horrible health problems, and we had substitutes for
> most of the year and a huge class, so needless to say
> I was pretty bored, and just went to see my friends
> and play for those blessed 15 minute recesses of
> playing freedom), in 3rd grade, the only thing I
> really enjoyed was going to "gifted class", where we
> were encouraged to do our own thing and learn at our
> own pace. Oh, and since I was raised as a Jehovah's
> Witness and didn't celebrate a lot of the holidays, I
> was sent to the Library while the rest of the enormous
> class did holiday activities, which was just fine with
> me, cuz reading was what I really enjoyed, --other
> than daydreaming, which was considered something "bad"
> (ex: "Bobbie's a really great student, has lots and
> lots of potential, BUT daydreams a bit too much"),--
> and that way I didn't have to stay and be made to feel
> bad about my beliefs by the TEACHER, who wanted sooo
> bad to prove that I really truly did WANT so bad to
> celebrate them and my parents were just being mean to
> me. The kids, being naturally unbiased and open minded
> never said a thing more to me about it than asking
> questions cuz it was something different to them. On
> the other end of it, I obviously wasn't getting math,
> I NEVER did my math or social studies types of
> homework and would therefore end up having to stay in
> during recess and write "I will do my math homework. I
> will do my math homework. I will do my math homework."
> and THEN if I didn't finish that (due to daydreaming,
> most likely) I had to write more sentences. And in my
> school, at 3rd grade there was already horrible social
> circles and cliques to try and fit into. I was in
> neither the cool nor nerd group, cuz my cool friends
> liked me but didn't like that I also liked and hung
> out with weird and nerdy kids, and my weird and nerdy
> friends thought I must be kinda stuck up to hang out
> and like the cool kids. I lived in constant fear of
> going to the principal's office for anything and was
> so scared riding the bus, cuz I lived in a rural area
> and was dropped off at the end of my "driveway", which
> was really a dirt road that seemed millions of miles
> long to a little easily frightened girl. In the middle
> of third grade, our house burned down, and my dad's
> brother was living in Phoenix, where he had heard of
> this "private school" (which was what I like to call a
> "homemade school", just started by a few like-minded
> parents who wanted to be in charge of their kids and
> their learning activities and associations and still
> let them have a "school" with friends to go to.) So me
> and my little sister (2yrs younger) went there, and my
> mom and oldest sister became teachers there, and I had
> a great time. I went thru 5th, (my mom taught
> 5th..there was only one class per grade) and I loved
> it, but mostly becuz it was sooo unstructured, and
> huge amounts of personal attention. The teachers were
> like extended family, who respected your strengths and
> weaknesses and beliefs and my dad was almost the
> principal at one point. Then we decided to move back
> to New Mexico and I said there was no way on God's
> green earth I was going to go to middle school. So I
> took Calvert homeschool. Or at least ordered the
> course and did some work out of it every once and
> awhile. Then ordered American school, and still like
> to study in those just for the sake of refreshing my
> brain cells sometimes. All of my friends have always
> been older than me. Not becuz I was socially
> handicapped with kids my age, but becuz frankly, they
> bored me. And irritated me with their pettiness in
> always trying to be "cool" and fit in. My best friend
> for a long time was 6 years older than me and people
> always thought she must be babysitting me. :) My
> point? oh yeah. (I promise there is one)
> Homeschooling kids ARE different. They haven't been
> corrupted with the need to conform in every way of
> their being, right down to the way they think and how
> long they think on each subject, and HEAVEN FORBID
> they use their imaginations to their full potential.
> And the reason I got started on this whole tangent
> (THANKYOU BOBBIE PLEEEEZE FINISH UP HERE) is that as
> an adult, by nature, I suppose, I deal with a lot of
> social phobia (in myself) and there was a point in my
> life where it was really bad, and in general have
> dealt with phobias and stuff like that my whole life.
> I don't like dealing with public figures and dread
> having confrontations of any sort sometimes. My POINT
> though, is, that when other ADULTS hear this about me,
> they have the nerve to say "Oh yeah, weren't you
> homeschooled?" And I have heard the argument soooooo
> many times that the homeschooled kids they know either
> grow up to be way dumber than most kids or way
> smarter, but either way are socially handicapped and
> don't know how to interact with others at all in their
> adult life. I maintain that PUBLIC School started
> planting the seeds of social phobia and handicapping
> in me, cuz I was "different" and didn't fit the mold
> of a "normal" all American apple pie sort of girl, so
> I was made to feel as though I needed to change.
> Fortunately, thanks to my parents teaching me at home
> BEFORE first grade, I had that one thing going for me,
> that I loved to read, and was at a middle school level
> in 3rd grade, and the "gifted class" teachers loved
> that. But kids who are just thrown into school feet
> first and aren't considered "gifted" don't even have
> THAT advantage. One ounce of "different" and they are
> either in need of Ritalin or "poor students". I think
> unschooling PREVENTS social handicaps and helps heal
> already planted ones, especially if we do expose our
> children to other people and situations. My son is the
> only kid at McDonald's playlands and parks who
> actually takes the initiative and says in his most
> friendly voice "Hi. I'm my name is Satori. Wanna play
> with me?" Sometimes he meets no answer at all, cuz,
> following in the footsteps of his mom he is by no
> means "normal" and sadly a lot of these kids are
> already behaving like biased adults. THAT, to me, is a
> social handicap.
> -Bobbie
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:53:14 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bobbie <insomniaaks@...>
> Subject: Re: Intro
>
> Ok, maybe I'm just having an emotional sort of day,
> but what a beautiful story. Brought tears to my eyes
> almost.
> Nice to meet you laura & co!
> I know how you feel with the ELATION to find like
> minded people! I just can't get over it. This list
> rocks my world. My family has just gotten used to my
> happy comments to myself as I'm reading my mail
> now.("These are my kind of people! I can't beleive it!
> This is great! Yes! Rock on!", etc )
>
> Ever since my son (5) was born I've been talking and
> planning and trying to convince people that this was
> NOT just out of laziness and in fact, SOME people who
> know me and my lack of ....structure and following
> traditional "rules", think that homeschooling would be
> a bad idea for my kids cuz we'll "never DO it". and At
> first I was doing the sit down and do so much
> schoolwork per day thing and it broke my heart to see
> that my son dreaded that time. Thought it was no fun.
> Totally defeated my purpose of keeping him home.
> I LOVED hearing about your son learning multiplication
> with his stuffed animals! (That was the teary eyed
> part) :) Thanks for sharing.
> -bobbie
>
> P.S. Any suggestions from anyone on how to instill in
> my kids a love ...or even an interest in things that
> sadly just don't do it for me, specifically math and
> parts and aspects of history, mostly like
> political/governmental aspects? If they BORE the life
> out of me, how am I supposed to make them fun for him?
> Math right now is cool, cuz he is just learning the
> only part that ever interested me (adding and
> subtracting and money stuff), but later on I know his
> stepdad will have to step in cuz ds and dd will be
> able to pick up on my vibes of disinterest, which I
> really don't want to pass on.
>
> --- ChipandLaura@... wrote:
>
> > I am soooo glad to have found this group. It feels
> > wonderful.
>
> > So, the minute Jeremy was born, I looked at this
> > beautiful little boy and
> > thought..
> > "No way will I turn him over to quacks in five
> > years!" It was literally one
> > of my first
> > thoughts (after having cried my eyes out!)
> >
> > So we set out to learn about homeschooling. I've
> > enjoyed the Charlotte Mason
> > method and a few pre packaged curriculums, and the
> > book "the Well Trained
> > Mind".
> > The book actually gave me great ideas on the kids
> > keeping notebooks on worms
> > and such!
> > But, I always fell away from what I was doing, no
> > matter how much I enjoyed
> > it.
> > I found the kids saying "Awwww" when I called them
> > to "do school".
> >
> > I had heard of unschooling, but so many had acted
> > like it was a "too far out"
> > idea or possibly even unchristian..that I had not
> > looked seriously.
> >
> > YIPEE!
> >
> > Like minded people! I'm NOT lazy! hahhahahahha..
> > boy does that feel good!
> > A perfect example of how unschooling works. We like
> > the Math U See
> > curriculum.
> > Multiplication was just not clicking with Jeremy so
> > I gave myself permission
> > to
> > just put it away. I would simply ask him a question
> > once in awhile, and if he
> > hesitated, I would supply the answer, offering a
> > brief explanation of how I
> > got the
> > answer.
> >
> > About two weeks after starting this, Jeremy was
> > playing with his stuffed
> > animal
> > collection on his top bunk. He began arranging them
> > in groups of three.
> > At 11 pm that night, he came flying out of his room,
> > yelling "Three, Three
> > times!
> > That's NINE!" And took us in to show us the
> > different groupings and how they
> > represented numbers, etc.
> > I was elated. Not only did he know multiplication,
> > but he SAW how it worked,
> > he didn't just blindly memorize answers!
> > The next day he happily sat down and filled in about
> > 4 chapters of his math
> > book,
> > willingly, without being asked!
> >
> > I LOVE this!
> >
> > Nice to meet you all!
> > Laura
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
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>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:50:23 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Pagan e-group
>
> I would think there already is one but can find out if you would like. I am
> on a list called ManyPaths which was set up by a Pagen mother who was asked
> by a Christian mother about an inclusive list. I'm sure Barb would know if
> there are any Pagen homeschooling lists.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Painter" <bonniepainter@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Pagan e-group
>
>
> > Why don't we start one if we can't find one? Let me know if you guys are
> > interested. I would be.
> >
> > Bonnie
> >
> >
> > >From: "Tami Labig-Duquette" <labigduquette@...>
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Pagan e-group
> > >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:47:35 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Carrie0204@...
> > >
> > > >Tami...is there a pagan homeschooling egroup that you know of?
> > > >tia
> > > >Carrie
> > >Carrie,
> > >Here is one, [email protected]. Forgot about it.
> > >Tami
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Addresses:
> > Post message: [email protected]
> > Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> > List owner: [email protected]
> > List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:56:04 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: And So It Begins
>
> For all those that said he didn't have a religious agenda and that he
> wouldn't go after pro-choice and roe v wade, here is step one.
>
> Lynda
> If Ignorance Is Bliss Why Aren't More People Happy?
>
> > Bush To Block Abortion Funds
> > The Associated Press
> > Jan 22 2001 10:51AM
> >
> > WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush has decided to block U.S. funds to
> international family-planning groups that offer abortion and abortion
> counseling, a White House official said Monday....
> > http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0100&id=0101221052001005
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>


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Bobbie

woo hoo! how did I miss this post before. it's amazing
the things you find when you clean out your mail box.
:)
Where are you from Dorinda? I just ask becuz like
someone said on a different post somewhere that you
notice the different terms and phrases people use in
different parts of the world, and I noticed you said
"courses at the kingdom hall". And yeah I agree that
the Daniel's Prophecy book is oh so interesting. I had
only read the beginning of it (out of laziness) and
then I had a time of not attending meetings right when
they starting studying it there, until my sister went
(who had also not been going) and comes home ranting
and raving about did you know this and this and that
about all these different things in history and how
she was so happy that we're studying it now. Sparked
my interest, and the rest...is history. :)
(could that have BEEN a cheesier attempt at a joke?
sorry bout that. ahem.)
anyway, nice to meet you.
Maybe we'll see each other at a convention or
something someday. :)
-Bobbie

--- Dorinda Oakes <Oakes_family_homeschool@...>
wrote:
At any rate the courses at the
> kingdomhall are a great help to our homeschooling. I
> Love the Book we are finishing, I never found
> world history so interesting as when it was applied
> through Daniel's Prophecy! It was surprising
> to see the explaination of these recent events found
> in a book as old as Daniel.
> Dorinda
> > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:34:34 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Bobbie <insomniaaks@...>
> > Subject: Re: Homeschooling and social handicaps
> (long)
> >
> > The only time my son is singled
> > > out,
> > > its by adults , ignorant, rude adults. When hes
> > > grown,
> > > in whatever job he chooses, I sincerely doubt
> that
> > > his
> > > coworkers will know, or care if he was
> homeschooled.
> > > The big picture for me is his happiness and
> > > security,
> > > 2 things he never felt during the 2 years I
> allowed
> > > ps
> > > to undermine everything I believe in. Never
> again.
> >
> >
> > I have to reply here, cuz that is so true about
> adults
> > and their close mindedness. I am the 5th of 6
> > children, the first four are 12-17 yrs older than
> me
> > (quite a gap), and of them ONE graduated from ps.
> (Of
> > her own choice). The rest my dad had to fight to
> be
> > able to "homeschool" (which ended up being
> > unschooling) them, and so by the time I was old
> enough
> > to put in school, he knew he didn't really want
> to,
> > but he had had so much negative thoughts on
> > homeschooling thrown his way (that his kids
> wouldnt'
> > learn as much, that they would be socially and
> > academically handicapped, that their lives would
> be
> > too sheltered, etc, etc, AND that the kids
> actually
> > LIKED school and he was depriving them)
> > that I remember after I had turned 5, he, very
> > reluctantly sighed and asked me "do you WANT to go
> to
> > school? If you WANT to I guess you can." and I
> > remember thinking, I am soooo cool. I can decide
> > whether or not to go to school. and I said no, (to
> his
> > delight)and stayed at home all that year, learning
> at
> > home in absolutely no structured way, just my mom
> > creatively teaching me in play that my friends
> never
> > dreamt of having, both my parents and older
> siblings
> > reading to me several times a day and ALWAYS
> before
> > bed. Then the next year my "best friend" started
> first
> > grade and all the other kids that I knew from my
> > religion were starting school too, so I decided I
> > wanted to go. And to tell the truth in first grade
> I
> > had a blast. But only becuz I happened to have a
> > smaller class and the coolest teacher there, who
> > didn't believe in traditional school methods and
> > pacing. and thought if we wanted to learn cursive
> in
> > first grade then she would teach us, if I wanted
> to
> > use three pages and three days worth of story in
> my
> > squiggle book, as opposed to the assigned one
> > page/day, then 'go for it, you'll be a great
> writer',
> > and if we still needed to count on our fingers to
> > figure things out, then we were allowed to. And
> here's
> > the cool part. I was further advanced in reading
> than
> > the other kids who had faithfully gone to
> kindergarten
> > to learn their abc's like good little "normal"
> kids,
> > so I got to go a different grade and classroom for
> a
> > special reading time and sometimes read to the
> younger
> > kids. I stayed in ps thru 3rd grade, (in 2nd, I
> saw my
> > actual teacher about a third of the year cuz of
> > horrible health problems, and we had substitutes
> for
> > most of the year and a huge class, so needless to
> say
> > I was pretty bored, and just went to see my
> friends
> > and play for those blessed 15 minute recesses of
> > playing freedom), in 3rd grade, the only thing I
> > really enjoyed was going to "gifted class", where
> we
> > were encouraged to do our own thing and learn at
> our
> > own pace. Oh, and since I was raised as a
> Jehovah's
> > Witness and didn't celebrate a lot of the
> holidays, I
> > was sent to the Library while the rest of the
> enormous
> > class did holiday activities, which was just fine
> with
> > me, cuz reading was what I really enjoyed, --other
> > than daydreaming, which was considered something
> "bad"
> > (ex: "Bobbie's a really great student, has lots
> and
> > lots of potential, BUT daydreams a bit too
> much"),--
> > and that way I didn't have to stay and be made to
> feel
> > bad about my beliefs by the TEACHER, who wanted
> sooo
> > bad to prove that I really truly did WANT so bad
> to
> > celebrate them and my parents were just being mean
> to
> > me. The kids, being naturally unbiased and open
> minded
> > never said a thing more to me about it than asking
> > questions cuz it was something different to them.
> On
> > the other end of it, I obviously wasn't getting
> math,
> > I NEVER did my math or social studies types of
> > homework and would therefore end up having to stay
> in
> > during recess and write "I will do my math
> homework. I
> > will do my math homework. I will do my math
> homework."
> > and THEN if I didn't finish that (due to
> daydreaming,
> > most likely) I had to write more sentences. And in
> my
> > school, at 3rd grade there was already horrible
> social
> > circles and cliques to try and fit into. I was in
> > neither the cool nor nerd group, cuz my cool
> friends
> > liked me but didn't like that I also liked and
> hung
> > out with weird and nerdy kids, and my weird and
> nerdy
> > friends thought I must be kinda stuck up to hang
> out
> > and like the cool kids. I lived in constant fear
> of
> > going to the principal's office for anything and
> was
> > so scared riding the bus, cuz I lived in a rural
> area
> > and was dropped off at the end of my "driveway",
> which
> > was really a dirt road that seemed millions of
> miles
> > long to a little easily frightened girl. In the
> middle
> > of third grade, our house burned down, and my
> dad's
> > brother was living in Phoenix, where he had heard
> of
> > this "private school" (which was what I like to
> call a
> > "homemade school", just started by a few
> like-minded
>
=== message truncated ===


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Sylvia Toyama

I came across that article about a year ago -- it's great! I love the examples -- like not being allowed to shop at the store for 29 year olds!

Syl


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim and Maureen

Also see www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/ books/files/homeschool.pdf for a researcher's approach to socialization.
----- Original Message -----
From: angelwings14513
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 7:41 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Socialization.


No Thank You, We Don't Believe in Socialization!

http://www.tnhomeed.com/LRSocial.html

MUST READ!


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