Kerry Kibort

We were having a heck of a time at "bedtime". My boys
would never go to bed and made so much noise
protesting, they'd always wake the baby . Finally,
after a year of begging, pleading, yelling, crying,
and still no sleeping, we discovered unschooling and
the fabulous parenting ideas that go with it. Why do
they have to go to bed at 8pm? Well, for my sanity,
for one! We have made a great compromise---- they can
stay up as late as they want, IN THEIR ROOM, BEING
QUIET. It worked! They play quietly, read, even
learned all the states on Nick's leap pad!
By the way, as someone who is just learning these new
parenting skills, I appreciate all the ideas, advice,
and chatter. I feel at home and am finally able to
shed the limiting ideas I grew up with.
Learning all the time,
Kerry

[email protected]

Most kids have their own sleeping schedule as do I. My ds, 11, is generally
asleep by seven and up about four. ACK! Not me! My DD, 10 and I stay up till
about eleven. I get up about six and she gets up around eight. I think my son
likes his quiet time and is always very creative, judging from the various
messes I find! He has also become superresponsible during that time....
probably as there is no one up and he is the "man" of the house. Often times
I have a fresh pot of coffee made, the fire started and the animals fed.... I
am a happy woman!!!!!
Teri


Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>
Pre-order's available now!
Assistant Editor of <A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/Seedling">eGroups :
Seedling</A>
<A HREF="http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/default.htm">Homeschooling -
Christian Unschooling - Natural Learning</A>

Carolyn

We did this recently too. Our 10 year old daughter loves to stay up
half the night, and sleep half the day. Until she begged us to let her
watch Nightmare on Elm Street, "everybody else has seen it". After
several months of this I let her try the movie. As I expected, she
didn't last too long and has slept with us every night for a week now,
going to bed at our bedtime and up early.

I'm struggling with how much control to give up. She says now I
probably shouldn't have let her watch the movie. She craves sugar, junk
TV, Brittney Spears. Do I indulge? What books are you reading? I
really like the idea of letting her make her own choices. I wonder,
though, if sometimes it really is to her benefit.

Carolyn

Kerry Kibort wrote:

> We were having a heck of a time at "bedtime". My boys
> would never go to bed and made so much noise
> protesting, they'd always wake the baby . Finally,
> after a year of begging, pleading, yelling, crying,
> and still no sleeping, we discovered unschooling and
> the fabulous parenting ideas that go with it. Why do
> they have to go to bed at 8pm? Well, for my sanity,
> for one! We have made a great compromise---- they can
> stay up as late as they want, IN THEIR ROOM, BEING
> QUIET. It worked! They play quietly, read, even
> learned all the states on Nick's leap pad!
> By the way, as someone who is just learning these new
> parenting skills, I appreciate all the ideas, advice,
> and chatter. I feel at home and am finally able to
> shed the limiting ideas I grew up with.
> Learning all the time,
> Kerry
>
> eGroups Sponsor
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Kerry Kibort

I think I've read TOO many books on
unschooling/homeschooling, to be quite honest. We have
only begun unschooling/homeschooling in September, but
I have learned so much more about parenting than about
homeschooling. I do indulge my boys alot, with video
games, movies (not scary ones- I hate scary movies!).
I like to visit the unschooling boards alot, because
there is so much being said that isnt on this list-
the nitty gritty, daily grind of life with kids.
Reading books on unschooling didnt really help me
much, even made me feel bad that my kids werent
writing music and neighborhood newsletters- without
being poked with a branding iron, that wont happen
here:) I think someone should write a book on the
AVERAGE unschooled kid. The ones who balk at writing
anything at all! The ones who love tv and video games,
and sports! Did you all know that theres a
homeschooler rookie on the Miami Dolphins??? Well, I
guess I am babbling a bit, but I'm learning to go with
my instincts, not by the book. Dont let too many "how
to" homeschooling/ unschooling books discourage you.
All those moms and dads wrote about what they know,
and if you did the same it may not help everyone,
kwim?
Ok, I'm off the deep end now!
Kerry

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/16/01 11:53:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
kkibort@... writes:

<< I think someone should write a book on the
AVERAGE unschooled kid. The ones who balk at writing
anything at all! The ones who love tv and video games,
and sports! Did you all know that theres a
homeschooler rookie on the Miami Dolphins??? >>

Well, I don't know about a book until someday, but I sure do know what you're
talking about. I'll write more later. For now, my son would like to know who
the Dolphin's homeschooler is. Do you know his name? ;.) -Amalia-

Erin M

>Most kids have their own sleeping schedule as do I. My ds, 11, is generally
>asleep by seven and up about four. ACK! Not me! My DD, 10 and I stay up
>till
>about eleven. I get up about six and she gets up around eight. I think my
>son
>likes his quiet time and is always very creative, judging from the various
>messes I find! He has also become superresponsible during that time....
>probably as there is no one up and he is the "man" of the house. Often
>times
>I have a fresh pot of coffee made, the fire started and the animals fed....
>I
>am a happy woman!!!!!
>Teri
>
>
>Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
>Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>

That's a book my mother needs to read! I started out wanting to unschool,
but I could only convince my parents to let me homeschool, and they bought
textbooks, but I have stopped using them now. Both of my parents work and
they are busy, so I basically do my own thing, but I hate being expected do
school at home, and they don't support my unschooing and I can't talk about
it with them, I have to be hush- hush about it. They know what I do, but
they don't say anything, because I think they don't want to confront
me-AGAIN.
I wish they would be convinced and be supportive so I can call myself an
unschooler and "come out of the closet".<sigh>
-Ren

_________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

In a message dated 01/16/2001 4:35:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
arabhorses_rock@... writes:

<< That's a book my mother needs to read! >>
LOL this is a book that a lot of Christians need to read... the best part of
the book is not the words of Elissa or myself, but the essays of Christian
Unschoolers from all over the US and Canada:) I am not out to convert anyone
to my way of raising my children, I just want to offer solace to those
families who are burning out from school at home and support for those
Christian unschoolers who feel out of sync with simply everyone!!! Thanks for
the note..... makes me feel good at a time when I Just KNOW that everyone is
going to simply hate it ect ect ect! LOL
Teri


Co-author of <A HREF="http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html">
Christian Unschooling: growing your child in the freedom of Christ</A>
Pre-order's available now!

Kerry Kibort

I don't know the Dolphin's name, I do know he was
drafted in 2000. Sorry, hockey is my sport. My son
wants to be the first homeschooled NHL player, but hes
only 7, so someone might beat him to it.
Kerry

Valerie Stewart

That's a book my mother needs to read! I started out wanting to unschool,
but I could only convince my parents
-Ren

Hi again Ren...Have you read The Teenager Liberation Handbook by Grace
Llewellyn? Heady stuff, but a must-read, in my opinion. Maybe if you read
it, then you can read the best parts aloud to your parents to help deschool
them.

--Valerie in Tacoma

Sandi & Scott Spaeth

>Hi again Ren...Have you read The Teenager Liberation Handbook by Grace
>Llewellyn? Heady stuff, but a must-read, in my opinion. Maybe if you read
>it, then you can read the best parts aloud to your parents to help deschool
>them.
>
>--Valerie in Tacoma


Another excellent one is "Real Lives" also by Grace Llewellyn. That one is
about the lives of 11 teenages who do not go to school. Some went to
school and quit, others never attended school. My husband just finished
both Real Lives and Teen Lib Handbook, they really are must reads.

I co-founded a homeschooling org here in the St Louis area, and I often get
emails and questions from people just starting out homeschooling, or
thinking about it. I almost ALWAYS get asked what curriculum people should
buy for their kids. I suggest these two books to parents of older kids
(and even younger ones sometimes), and tell them to not worry about
curriculum. They are books both parents and the child can get something
out of.

I really wish Grace Llewellyn would go back and revisit the teens in the
Real Lives book. It has been nearly 10 years since it was written, and
they are all in the mid 20's now and I would be very interested to see what
they are doing now.

Another good one is : "The Unschooling Handbook: How to use the whole world
as your child's classroom" By Mary Griffith Most anything by John Holt
of Gatto is a good bet too.

Something else you might do to convince them is get into some volunteering
or some internship programs. Show them that there are more valuable ways
to spend your time other than doing boring text work.

Anyway, I hope maybe something in that helps. I know how you feel. My
family is not unsupportive, but my dad and step-sister are both teachers,
so I think they were expecting a bit more traditional methods (why they
thought that of me, the big old black sheep of the family I have no
clue!!). So, mostly they just ignore the fact that we do what we do. This
xmas was the first time they really acknowledged anything and they did that
buy getting the kids some really wonderful books and hands on things to
do. So, maybe they are finally starting to accept, if not understand.

Just hang in there! It is your education, as long as they are not
physically stopping you, go for it!
--------------------------------------------------------------
"What we want to see is the child in pursuit of knowledge, not knowledge in
pursuit of the child."
-- George Bernard Shaw

Piston Ported Vespas:
http://members.nbci.com/piston_ported/index.html
words
http://www.geocities.com/vespass/words.html
ST Louis Secular Homeschooler's Co-Op
http://www.stlsecularhomeschool.org
-------------------------------------------------------------

Susan (mother to 5 in Fla)

I firmly believe the Underground History of American Education by John
Taylor Gatto is a must read. It will help tremendously in explaining to
"educator" type family & friends why we don't want to send our kids to
school.

Erin M

>That's a book my mother needs to read! I started out wanting to unschool,
>but I could only convince my parents
>-Ren
>
>Hi again Ren...Have you read The Teenager Liberation Handbook by Grace
>Llewellyn? Heady stuff, but a must-read, in my opinion. Maybe if you read
>it, then you can read the best parts aloud to your parents to help deschool
>them.
Yes!!! My copy is beaten to death and I read to them tons, but it didn't
work. I tryed out all of Grace's suggestions too. However, soon I'm going to
start getting GWS, so I hope that will help. -Ren
>--Valerie in Tacoma
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Erin M

> >Hi again Ren...Have you read The Teenager Liberation Handbook by Grace
> >Llewellyn? Heady stuff, but a must-read, in my opinion. Maybe if you read
> >it, then you can read the best parts aloud to your parents to help
>deschool
> >them.
> >
> >--Valerie in Tacoma
I have read it(cover to cover a couple of times, and a ton of selected
reading and browsing), worn it to bits actually! That was the first thing I
did after I heard of unschooling for the first time, in an article in Girls
Life written by an unschooler(Erin Doty,she lives in Portland, and we are
now in sort of occasional touch-if any of you know her). She suggested it,
along with Real Lives, and I convinced my mom to get it for me right away.
She didn't know what she was getting into! :-) I have higlighted, dogeared,
bent, and read tons of it to my parents, but it didn't seem to help.
My answer to this got "delayed" so it will probably show up again in a few
days but it might be a dead topic by then so I decide to "re answer"!
>Another excellent one is "Real Lives" also by Grace Llewellyn. That one is
>about the lives of 11 teenages who do not go to school. Some went to
>school and quit, others never attended school. My husband just >finished
>both Real Lives and Teen Lib Handbook, they really are must reads.
I haven't yet read it, but I have heard tons about it. I can't find it in
bookstores in dinky Baxley,GA(thank goodness for Amazon-may they never go
out of business) but I will either save my money and get Mom to order it for
me(I'm currently broke:-) or ask for it for my birthday in April, because I
would really like to read it. And the more sucess stories I can cram into my
parents heads the better.
>I really wish Grace Llewellyn would go back and revisit the teens in the
>Real Lives book. It has been nearly 10 years since it was written, and
>they are all in the mid 20's now and I would be very interested to see what
>they are doing now.
That would be interesting!
>Another good one is : "The Unschooling Handbook: How to use the whole world
>as your child's classroom" By Mary Griffith Most anything by John Holt
>of Gatto is a good bet too.
I would also like to buy the Unschooling Handbook as soon as I can. I read
parts of it at a bookstore when we were at the beach this past summer, and
it was really good, but I wasn't able to buy it then(because I had no money,
as usual for me). And yes I have thought of starting a business!

>Something else you might do to convince them is get into some volunteering
>or some internship programs. Show them that there are more valuable ways
>to spend your time other than doing boring text work.
I am working on starting to volunteer at the local hospital an I would like
to work with a vet or maybe with my grown cousin who has just started her
own business, a neat little card and scrapbook supply store. She makes
cards, stationary, all kinds of neat things and she has tons of stickers and
scrapbook supplies. She's very creative and fun and she's really busy now
because the shop just took off.
>Anyway, I hope maybe something in that helps. I know how you feel. My
>family is not unsupportive, but my dad and step-sister are both teachers,
>so I think they were expecting a bit more traditional methods (why they
>thought that of me, the big old black sheep of the family I have no
>clue!!). So, mostly they just ignore the fact that we do what we do.
That's actually how I feel my parents act. And they are both teachers, which
is very annoying. Last night Mama was grading papers(her third graders are
using the Shurley Method-they are diagramming sentences in third grade), and
I very maturely stuck my finger in my mouth and pertended to throw up-I
don't like the Shurley Method. Not a good move. Anyway, we got into an
argument about diagramming sentences. She said, "Well, you don't know how to
do that". I know most of the parts of speech and I write and speak
correctly(when I wish to). I just don't see the point and I told her so. I
asked her when she ever used this in life, besides when she was teaching her
kids. She said I would need it in college and on tests. And I said, "Yes,
but what practical purpose will it serve me in the real world?". She
obviously didn't have an answer for that, and so she didn't(answer, that is
:-). She just got all uptight and said, "You just will!" "No I won't- if you
knew of some reason I'll need it you would tell me." "You -will- need it,
don't argue with me."
There's just no point in argueing with her then, anyway.
>Just hang in there! It is your education, as long as they are not
>physically stopping you, go for it!
I sure will.

Sorry about the novel length message, I just had it to get it all out!

Thank you very much for all your advice!
Ren


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

uebinger robyn

Dear Ren,
I just had to write and say how happy I am to read your messages. Some
people are born with an understanding way beyond their years. Keep
explaining and discussing these issues with your parents. They know what an
intelligent and kind person you are. They just worry. It must be difficult
for them to embrace this philosophy. It makes them question their whole life
and the work they have done. Teaching! Questioning is always a good thing so
just keep it up. They will come around. Are they aware of the wonderful
input you give this group? They would have to be very impressed. Thanks
again for all your kind words and keep writing! Warmly,
Robyn

>From: "Erin M" <arabhorses_rock@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Ren-- Books
>Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:13:13 -0500
>
>
>
>
>
> > >Hi again Ren...Have you read The Teenager Liberation Handbook by Grace
> > >Llewellyn? Heady stuff, but a must-read, in my opinion. Maybe if you
>read
> > >it, then you can read the best parts aloud to your parents to help
> >deschool
> > >them.
> > >
> > >--Valerie in Tacoma
>I have read it(cover to cover a couple of times, and a ton of selected
>reading and browsing), worn it to bits actually! That was the first thing I
>did after I heard of unschooling for the first time, in an article in Girls
>Life written by an unschooler(Erin Doty,she lives in Portland, and we are
>now in sort of occasional touch-if any of you know her). She suggested it,
>along with Real Lives, and I convinced my mom to get it for me right away.
>She didn't know what she was getting into! :-) I have higlighted, dogeared,
>bent, and read tons of it to my parents, but it didn't seem to help.
>My answer to this got "delayed" so it will probably show up again in a few
>days but it might be a dead topic by then so I decide to "re answer"!
> >Another excellent one is "Real Lives" also by Grace Llewellyn. That one
>is
> >about the lives of 11 teenages who do not go to school. Some went to
> >school and quit, others never attended school. My husband just
> >finished
> >both Real Lives and Teen Lib Handbook, they really are must reads.
>I haven't yet read it, but I have heard tons about it. I can't find it in
>bookstores in dinky Baxley,GA(thank goodness for Amazon-may they never go
>out of business) but I will either save my money and get Mom to order it
>for
>me(I'm currently broke:-) or ask for it for my birthday in April, because I
>would really like to read it. And the more sucess stories I can cram into
>my
>parents heads the better.
> >I really wish Grace Llewellyn would go back and revisit the teens in the
> >Real Lives book. It has been nearly 10 years since it was written, and
> >they are all in the mid 20's now and I would be very interested to see
>what
> >they are doing now.
>That would be interesting!
> >Another good one is : "The Unschooling Handbook: How to use the whole
>world
> >as your child's classroom" By Mary Griffith Most anything by John Holt
> >of Gatto is a good bet too.
>I would also like to buy the Unschooling Handbook as soon as I can. I read
>parts of it at a bookstore when we were at the beach this past summer, and
>it was really good, but I wasn't able to buy it then(because I had no
>money,
>as usual for me). And yes I have thought of starting a business!
>
> >Something else you might do to convince them is get into some
>volunteering
> >or some internship programs. Show them that there are more valuable
>ways
> >to spend your time other than doing boring text work.
>I am working on starting to volunteer at the local hospital an I would like
>to work with a vet or maybe with my grown cousin who has just started her
>own business, a neat little card and scrapbook supply store. She makes
>cards, stationary, all kinds of neat things and she has tons of stickers
>and
>scrapbook supplies. She's very creative and fun and she's really busy now
>because the shop just took off.
> >Anyway, I hope maybe something in that helps. I know how you feel. My
> >family is not unsupportive, but my dad and step-sister are both teachers,
> >so I think they were expecting a bit more traditional methods (why they
> >thought that of me, the big old black sheep of the family I have no
> >clue!!). So, mostly they just ignore the fact that we do what we do.
>That's actually how I feel my parents act. And they are both teachers,
>which
>is very annoying. Last night Mama was grading papers(her third graders are
>using the Shurley Method-they are diagramming sentences in third grade),
>and
>I very maturely stuck my finger in my mouth and pertended to throw up-I
>don't like the Shurley Method. Not a good move. Anyway, we got into an
>argument about diagramming sentences. She said, "Well, you don't know how
>to
>do that". I know most of the parts of speech and I write and speak
>correctly(when I wish to). I just don't see the point and I told her so. I
>asked her when she ever used this in life, besides when she was teaching
>her
>kids. She said I would need it in college and on tests. And I said, "Yes,
>but what practical purpose will it serve me in the real world?". She
>obviously didn't have an answer for that, and so she didn't(answer, that is
>:-). She just got all uptight and said, "You just will!" "No I won't- if
>you
>knew of some reason I'll need it you would tell me." "You -will- need it,
>don't argue with me."
>There's just no point in argueing with her then, anyway.
> >Just hang in there! It is your education, as long as they are not
> >physically stopping you, go for it!
>I sure will.
>
>Sorry about the novel length message, I just had it to get it all out!
>
>Thank you very much for all your advice!
>Ren
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Erin M

>Dear Ren,
>I just had to write and say how happy I am to read your messages. Some
>people are born with an understanding way beyond their years.
Thank you!
Let me take this moment to say how wonderful I think all of -you- are. I am
on several unschooling lists and this one is definately the best! Everybody
is so understanding and helpful and we don't bicker about silly things.
>Keep
>explaining and discussing these issues with your parents. They know what an
>intelligent and kind person you are. They just worry. It must be difficult
>for them to embrace this philosophy. It makes them question their whole
>life
>and the work they have done. Teaching! Questioning is always a good thing
>so
>just keep it up. They will come around.
I will keep trying. I'm not going to give up that's for sure!
>Are they aware of the wonderful
>input you give this group? They would have to be very impressed.
No they don't know. Sometimes I wish they could read our discussions, but a
lot of the time I would actually prefer they were not on the list, because I
can speak freely and ask for advice without worrying about what they think.
>Thanks
>again for all your kind words and keep writing! Warmly,
> Robyn
The same for you!

Love, Erin

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Kerry Kibort

Some
>people are born with an understanding way beyond
their years.

Around here, we call thos folks "old souls", not their
first time here, if you know what I mean.
Kerry

Bobbie

Ren, are you SURE you're only 14?:)
I homeschooled when i was 14 and I've known alot of
teen homeschoolers in my life and most of them
-including me at some point- homeschooled just becuz
they WANTED to slack off all day. Cuz they wanted to
be able to NOT learn and just play. You seem sooo the
opposite. You actually sought out a list about
unschooling. Some kids would have just been perfectly
happy letting thier parents say "homeschooling" and
just watch TV all day, turn in a test every once in a
while, to keep people happy. I'm very impressed with
your morale. I am very out of the loop here on this
list, so maybe someone's already suggested it. But a
huge thing that helped me -(though my family wasn't
against unschooling by any means, but they did worry
that they should have been making me "do schoolwork"
instead of stuff on my own, so it helped me reassured
them)- was seeking out learning experiences (which you
obviously like doing) and then sharing them with them
all excitedly. Checking out these tapes from the
library with my then best friend (6 yrs older and
"taking a correspondence course" to get her diploma)to
learn Swahili, or sitting down and reading a national
geographic in thier presence, or writing a report on
something I found interesting, for no other purpose
than to write it. Not for them to read. Not for
"school" but just cuz I wanted to learn about
something particular and did it on my own. Making a
science experiment that they knew wasn't required of
me. Then my parents were like "ok, she'll be fine. she
learns what she wants to learn." They bought me a
couple of correspondence courses Calvert and American
School and they never witnessed me really absorbing
them the way I did these other things. If you let them
see you learning on your "own time" (as opposed to
during the day when you are supposed to be doing
"school" and then be thru with it when they are home
later), and enjoying it and maybe taking an interest
in something they hope you will learn about thru
homeschooling. for instance if they encourage you to
take something as an elective in a homeschooling
course or something, then let them see you looking at
site on the net about that very thing when you could
easily be chatting with friends instead. If they have
hopes of you liking medical science, then let them
catch you reading a medical encyclopedia at some time
when one of your favorite tv shows is on. This will
show them that learning is important to you and you
aren't just trying to "get out of the work", and that
you can learn it fine on your own, without structured
lessons. Right now if you tell them something you
learned during the day, they may just assumed it was
thru the homeschooling program they have set up for
you. But if they can see with thier own eyes that you
can do it and want to do it then it may help ease
thier minds. Keep in mind that the same peer pressure
that kids get at school, adults get at work and from
family and friends. I'm sure they want what's best for
you just as much as we all want it for our kids, but
they obviously need convincing in a different way than
from words and talking, if that hasn't worked. Maybe
SEEING it work will be effective. Sometimes adults
have to have "hands-on" learning, too, in order to
finally grasp a point. :) Hope that was somewhat
helpful and not just incoherent. I must go to bed now.
I think I typed that last part in my sleep.
-Bobbie

--- Erin M <arabhorses_rock@...> wrote:

I started out
> wanting to unschool,
> but I could only convince my parents to let me
> homeschool, and they bought
> textbooks, but I have stopped using them now. Both
> of my parents work and
> they are busy, so I basically do my own thing, but I
> hate being expected do
> school at home, and they don't support my unschooing
> and I can't talk about
> it with them, I have to be hush- hush about it. They
> know what I do, but
> they don't say anything, because I think they don't
> want to confront
> me-AGAIN.
> I wish they would be convinced and be supportive so
> I can call myself an
> unschooler and "come out of the closet".<sigh>
> -Ren
>
>
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> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

--- Erin M <arabhorses_rock@...> wrote:
I started out
> wanting to unschool,
> but I could only convince my parents to let me
> homeschool, and they bought
> textbooks, but I have stopped using them now. Both
> of my parents work and
> they are busy, so I basically do my own thing, but I
> hate being expected do
> school at home, and they don't support my unschooing
> and I can't talk about
> it with them, I have to be hush- hush about it. They
> know what I do, but
> they don't say anything, because I think they don't
> want to confront
> me-AGAIN.
> I wish they would be convinced and be supportive so
> I can call myself an
> unschooler and "come out of the closet".<sigh>
> -Ren
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>


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