Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] giftedness
[email protected]
"Its seems that some of the most popular books out thier about
homeschooling that talk mostly about kids that are gifted (atleasts
thats how I percieve it)."
I'm not sure who originally wrote this. But reading it raised two
questions in my mind:
First, to what books are you referring? I'm scouring the globe
(metaphorically speaking) for books on homeschooling that aren't so
limited to the mid-curve that they're utterly useless for my gifted
son. I'll admit I've not yet ventured into the "family memoir"
sub-genre; I've been focussing my attention on those that are written as
guides, or collections of tips, or resource directories, as collecting
enough material to keep a rich environment at his ever-changing level is
more relevant to me than reading about someone else's experience at the
moment. The books I've seen are packed with tips on "age appropriate"
activities that are not the least appropriate for him--either because he
can't physically perform the indicated action until he's long past being
interested in the intended lesson, or because he's just not engaged by
what's aimed at the sensibilities of a child 2-3 times his age. They
prominently feature "developmental timetables" that resemble nothing
that will EVER happen in this house. They burgeon with guidelines on
how to reinforce information in which he is just becoming deeply
interested by referencing "everyday" concepts which are familiar to a
child at the "right age" for learning X, Y, and Z. . .but totally
foreign to my son, who already knows X, has a reasonable grasp of Y, and
is doggedly pursuing an understanding of Z without benefit of said
reinforcement. The books I most often see lauded as indispensable on
homeschooling mailing lists typically prove to hold little utility for
us, BECAUSE my son is gifted. My observation up to this point has been
that the literature (even when it purports to cover the full spectrum)
is heavily weighted toward children in the middle ranges of the IQ
chart, and that anyone whose child(ren) fall into that range has a much,
much broader pool of relevant resources on which to draw. I would truly
LOVE to get a booklist from you that would alter that perception.
Secondly, what makes you so sure the kids mentioned in those books are
gifted? I mean, do their authors say, "Sarah, a gifted nine-year-old,
has learnt to play Mozart on the violin. . .", or are you assuming that
Sarah MUST be gifted in order to have done so? If the latter, I'm
somewhat confused. If you're going to assign the title "gifted" to
every high achiever, doesn't that guarantee that, definitionally, no
non-gifted child will ever BE a high achiever, no matter what they do,
and, therefore, that every book that mentions achievement WILL be about
a gifted child? It sounds like circular logic to me. If the books ARE
about gifted children explicitly, well, O.K., so why feel inadequate? I
don't remember the basketball coach at my old highschool ever looking
out at a room full of 5'10" and under sophomores who couldn't hit a
three-point shot to save their lives and saying, "If I don't produce an
NBA all-star in this group, I'll know I'm a rotten coach." I doubt
reading a biography of Shaquille O'Neal would make him do so.
It seems that your true complaint has nothing to do with giftedness, but
is about achievement and the pressure to achieve, which is an ENTIRELY
different, and at best tangentially related, issue. Moreover, the
pressure seems to be something you're generating yourself, which
certainly can't be blamed on those who homeschool gifted kids or those
who write about them. Those books (whatever they may be) which inspired
your complaint trouble you because you compare your child(ren)'s (and by
extension your own) ACHIEVEMENT to that of the children (and parents)
mentioned in them. So, don't. I know that may seem flippant, but it's
just a straightforward acknowledgment of the only solution to the
problem. You decide what you concentrate on. My son will not excel in
everything. He will not even ever dip into most things--no one could.
Such is the nature of our world, so richly diverse that a hundred
lifetimes will not permit us to experience its every facet. Do I weep
that he might never be a banana farmer? Does it trouble me that he may
have been born without the capacity to someday stand as one of history's
greatest pearl-divers? Do I worry that I must be a poor mother and a
worse teacher if he reaches adulthood lacking the skills to be a
snakecharmer? Of course not. He's him, and entirely sufficient in
himself. If I teach him that, and help him acquire the skills to make
his life what he wants it to be, I will have done an unimpeachable job
of raising AND teaching him, no matter what he does or doesn't achieve
in the eyes of others. And they can write all the books they want about
anything they want without altering that simple fact.
Misty Blagg
athterath@...
homeschooling that talk mostly about kids that are gifted (atleasts
thats how I percieve it)."
I'm not sure who originally wrote this. But reading it raised two
questions in my mind:
First, to what books are you referring? I'm scouring the globe
(metaphorically speaking) for books on homeschooling that aren't so
limited to the mid-curve that they're utterly useless for my gifted
son. I'll admit I've not yet ventured into the "family memoir"
sub-genre; I've been focussing my attention on those that are written as
guides, or collections of tips, or resource directories, as collecting
enough material to keep a rich environment at his ever-changing level is
more relevant to me than reading about someone else's experience at the
moment. The books I've seen are packed with tips on "age appropriate"
activities that are not the least appropriate for him--either because he
can't physically perform the indicated action until he's long past being
interested in the intended lesson, or because he's just not engaged by
what's aimed at the sensibilities of a child 2-3 times his age. They
prominently feature "developmental timetables" that resemble nothing
that will EVER happen in this house. They burgeon with guidelines on
how to reinforce information in which he is just becoming deeply
interested by referencing "everyday" concepts which are familiar to a
child at the "right age" for learning X, Y, and Z. . .but totally
foreign to my son, who already knows X, has a reasonable grasp of Y, and
is doggedly pursuing an understanding of Z without benefit of said
reinforcement. The books I most often see lauded as indispensable on
homeschooling mailing lists typically prove to hold little utility for
us, BECAUSE my son is gifted. My observation up to this point has been
that the literature (even when it purports to cover the full spectrum)
is heavily weighted toward children in the middle ranges of the IQ
chart, and that anyone whose child(ren) fall into that range has a much,
much broader pool of relevant resources on which to draw. I would truly
LOVE to get a booklist from you that would alter that perception.
Secondly, what makes you so sure the kids mentioned in those books are
gifted? I mean, do their authors say, "Sarah, a gifted nine-year-old,
has learnt to play Mozart on the violin. . .", or are you assuming that
Sarah MUST be gifted in order to have done so? If the latter, I'm
somewhat confused. If you're going to assign the title "gifted" to
every high achiever, doesn't that guarantee that, definitionally, no
non-gifted child will ever BE a high achiever, no matter what they do,
and, therefore, that every book that mentions achievement WILL be about
a gifted child? It sounds like circular logic to me. If the books ARE
about gifted children explicitly, well, O.K., so why feel inadequate? I
don't remember the basketball coach at my old highschool ever looking
out at a room full of 5'10" and under sophomores who couldn't hit a
three-point shot to save their lives and saying, "If I don't produce an
NBA all-star in this group, I'll know I'm a rotten coach." I doubt
reading a biography of Shaquille O'Neal would make him do so.
It seems that your true complaint has nothing to do with giftedness, but
is about achievement and the pressure to achieve, which is an ENTIRELY
different, and at best tangentially related, issue. Moreover, the
pressure seems to be something you're generating yourself, which
certainly can't be blamed on those who homeschool gifted kids or those
who write about them. Those books (whatever they may be) which inspired
your complaint trouble you because you compare your child(ren)'s (and by
extension your own) ACHIEVEMENT to that of the children (and parents)
mentioned in them. So, don't. I know that may seem flippant, but it's
just a straightforward acknowledgment of the only solution to the
problem. You decide what you concentrate on. My son will not excel in
everything. He will not even ever dip into most things--no one could.
Such is the nature of our world, so richly diverse that a hundred
lifetimes will not permit us to experience its every facet. Do I weep
that he might never be a banana farmer? Does it trouble me that he may
have been born without the capacity to someday stand as one of history's
greatest pearl-divers? Do I worry that I must be a poor mother and a
worse teacher if he reaches adulthood lacking the skills to be a
snakecharmer? Of course not. He's him, and entirely sufficient in
himself. If I teach him that, and help him acquire the skills to make
his life what he wants it to be, I will have done an unimpeachable job
of raising AND teaching him, no matter what he does or doesn't achieve
in the eyes of others. And they can write all the books they want about
anything they want without altering that simple fact.
Misty Blagg
athterath@...
Samantha Stopple
A Child's Work by Nacy Wallace: Describes not genius
children but much more advanced at an early age
children than mine so far. 4 yr old Vera "writing"
poems independently. Both children fairly young being
musically gifted.
Homeschooling for Excellence by the Colfaxes: 3 of
their for son's went Harvard or Yale can't remember.
The Skylark Sings with Me by David: One child learned
to play the piano at 2yrs. Another has been suggested
to be gifted.
I have yeat to read except in GWS about normal
everyday kids. BUT and I say a big but I don't really
like labeling it that.
I really like Howard Gardner's (used to be 7 but) 8
intelligences. I think Thomas Armstrong wrote a book a
little more accessible for me about the intelligences.
What I would love is maybe we could do a thread on our
kids if you feel like sharing about what they are
doing. Maybe if we get others looking from the outside
we might see what our children are doing from another
perspective.
Maybe I am looking to the future to much. I have young
kids. I am very pleased with unschooling. I actually
want my kids to be unconventional. I will probably
have harder time with it if they want to be a doctor.
Not really but yes.
I get giddy watching my kids learn. Yesterday dd asked
her dad "what is 3+3+3+3 make?" Dad paused for a bit
then dd had her own answer "I know is 6+6." So here is
my 5 yrold learning the basics of math without any
instruction.
I know yesterday she did so many things that was
'learning' / what would have been 'instructed
learning' in a school in about 1 hour. Yet I also know
she is learning every minute things I don't even see.
Peace,
Samantha
__________________________________________________
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children but much more advanced at an early age
children than mine so far. 4 yr old Vera "writing"
poems independently. Both children fairly young being
musically gifted.
Homeschooling for Excellence by the Colfaxes: 3 of
their for son's went Harvard or Yale can't remember.
The Skylark Sings with Me by David: One child learned
to play the piano at 2yrs. Another has been suggested
to be gifted.
I have yeat to read except in GWS about normal
everyday kids. BUT and I say a big but I don't really
like labeling it that.
I really like Howard Gardner's (used to be 7 but) 8
intelligences. I think Thomas Armstrong wrote a book a
little more accessible for me about the intelligences.
What I would love is maybe we could do a thread on our
kids if you feel like sharing about what they are
doing. Maybe if we get others looking from the outside
we might see what our children are doing from another
perspective.
Maybe I am looking to the future to much. I have young
kids. I am very pleased with unschooling. I actually
want my kids to be unconventional. I will probably
have harder time with it if they want to be a doctor.
Not really but yes.
I get giddy watching my kids learn. Yesterday dd asked
her dad "what is 3+3+3+3 make?" Dad paused for a bit
then dd had her own answer "I know is 6+6." So here is
my 5 yrold learning the basics of math without any
instruction.
I know yesterday she did so many things that was
'learning' / what would have been 'instructed
learning' in a school in about 1 hour. Yet I also know
she is learning every minute things I don't even see.
Peace,
Samantha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
Gerry Westenberg
> "Its seems that some of the most popular books out thier aboutHi! I'm new to this list, but just wanted to comment....Books or articles by
> homeschooling that talk mostly about kids that are gifted (atleasts
> thats how I percieve it)."
unschoolers do often mention all the great things/learning that the children
are doing. However, this seems to me to be a natural result of interacting
with your children and really seeing them - I know that if I am doing this,
then I *am* amazed at all my children learn/do/are interested in. But if I
fall victim to the curriculum monster, I then focus on what they can';to do,
their messy handwriting or poor spelling, that sort of thing.
So, if I was writing about my children in my unschooling cap, I guess they
*would* sound gifted because I am enjoying them and perceiving them as
interesting people. They are the same - it is my perception that is
different! Oh, does this make sense? :-)
Leonie
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/01 3:06:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
westen@... writes:
<< So, if I was writing about my children in my unschooling cap, I guess they
*would* sound gifted because I am enjoying them and perceiving them as
interesting people. They are the same - it is my perception that is
different! Oh, does this make sense? :-)
candice
westen@... writes:
<< So, if I was writing about my children in my unschooling cap, I guess they
*would* sound gifted because I am enjoying them and perceiving them as
interesting people. They are the same - it is my perception that is
different! Oh, does this make sense? :-)
>>Absolutely makes sense!
candice
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/10/01 3:06:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
westen@... writes:
<< Oh, does this make sense? :-) >>
to me it does
westen@... writes:
<< Oh, does this make sense? :-) >>
to me it does