What about Mathematics??
Dalene Mactier
Hi All
My husband and I are still in the discovering stages unschooling. Our
children are still young so we'll have ample time to sort the
issues out before we get there, but here's one that we've been
talking about this weekend. Mathematics.
In my mind I do have a picture of children discovering Mathematics
for themselves if they are interested, but I'm having difficulty
putting this over to DH.
He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculum
in some subjects like Mathematics how else will they be able to
enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
astronomer or whatever??
Any ideas to help??
Thanks
Dalene
http://www.geocities.com/mactiers/
My husband and I are still in the discovering stages unschooling. Our
children are still young so we'll have ample time to sort the
issues out before we get there, but here's one that we've been
talking about this weekend. Mathematics.
In my mind I do have a picture of children discovering Mathematics
for themselves if they are interested, but I'm having difficulty
putting this over to DH.
He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculum
in some subjects like Mathematics how else will they be able to
enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
astronomer or whatever??
Any ideas to help??
Thanks
Dalene
http://www.geocities.com/mactiers/
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/04/2000 9:15:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
Mactier@... writes:
<< Our
children are still young – so we'll have ample time to sort the
issues out before we get there, but here's one that we've been
talking about this weekend. Mathematics.
In my mind I do have a picture of children discovering Mathematics
for themselves if they are interested, but I'm having difficulty
putting this over to DH.
He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculum
in some subjects – like Mathematics – how else will they be able to
enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
astronomer or whatever??
But the kiddos are young. So we have a mixture of texts and fun math books
and workbooks and CDs (Math in the Real World, Mathblaster series, etc.,
etc.) and lots and lots of fun -- build a bridge in the sandbox or help Mom
with the shopping (this is fun if you are getting something like candy!) or
read the cartoons in the Algebra book (my son thinks this is a big yuck)
which leads to actual math discussions or do a puzzle book or play a logic
game (Zoombinis is nice) on the computer. It all counts and it's all math
even if it's not in the "right" order. We use a mixture of everything and,
while some unschoolers don't include textbooks, we do and you can do whatever
suits your fancy! And follow up with whatever you need when you find an area
you want/need to know more about.
Side note: I usually look at websites when I see someone recommend a
curriculum or program -- I use the math sections as a gauge of whether or not
it will fit my kids. I usually find that the packaged currics contain a lot
of repetition and spread subjects over many years -- things we have covered
and revisited and will talk/read about again in context -- breaking things up
into tiny little steps when this is not what my kids need. For example,
fractions -- do we really need to learn 1/2 and 1/4 one year and 1/10 and
1/100 the next and then decimals two years later and repeat it all every
single year for 6+ years? Not around here. Do you encounter those concepts
and much more in just doing -- around here -- yes. You bake or you watch a
science show or you do an experiment or you share a candy bar (do you see a
theme?). Just a tiny example, but if you are aware of what you might cover I
think you will be reassured that these things do really come up in real life
and you don't have to repeat them to death or do 100 problems on a page to
get the info thru.
Have fun! Don't feel guilty if a text is a comfort -- but don't let it
dictate how you learn things. That's what we do anyway!
Nance
Mactier@... writes:
<< Our
children are still young – so we'll have ample time to sort the
issues out before we get there, but here's one that we've been
talking about this weekend. Mathematics.
In my mind I do have a picture of children discovering Mathematics
for themselves if they are interested, but I'm having difficulty
putting this over to DH.
He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculum
in some subjects – like Mathematics – how else will they be able to
enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
astronomer or whatever??
>>We are unschoolers who love math.
But the kiddos are young. So we have a mixture of texts and fun math books
and workbooks and CDs (Math in the Real World, Mathblaster series, etc.,
etc.) and lots and lots of fun -- build a bridge in the sandbox or help Mom
with the shopping (this is fun if you are getting something like candy!) or
read the cartoons in the Algebra book (my son thinks this is a big yuck)
which leads to actual math discussions or do a puzzle book or play a logic
game (Zoombinis is nice) on the computer. It all counts and it's all math
even if it's not in the "right" order. We use a mixture of everything and,
while some unschoolers don't include textbooks, we do and you can do whatever
suits your fancy! And follow up with whatever you need when you find an area
you want/need to know more about.
Side note: I usually look at websites when I see someone recommend a
curriculum or program -- I use the math sections as a gauge of whether or not
it will fit my kids. I usually find that the packaged currics contain a lot
of repetition and spread subjects over many years -- things we have covered
and revisited and will talk/read about again in context -- breaking things up
into tiny little steps when this is not what my kids need. For example,
fractions -- do we really need to learn 1/2 and 1/4 one year and 1/10 and
1/100 the next and then decimals two years later and repeat it all every
single year for 6+ years? Not around here. Do you encounter those concepts
and much more in just doing -- around here -- yes. You bake or you watch a
science show or you do an experiment or you share a candy bar (do you see a
theme?). Just a tiny example, but if you are aware of what you might cover I
think you will be reassured that these things do really come up in real life
and you don't have to repeat them to death or do 100 problems on a page to
get the info thru.
Have fun! Don't feel guilty if a text is a comfort -- but don't let it
dictate how you learn things. That's what we do anyway!
Nance
Cory and Amy Nelson
Hi Dalene,
I also have a young child - 17 months - and am still in the discovering
stage of unschooling. I've often wondered about math, too, since I've never
had much of an interest in the subject but want to make it as fun as
possible for her when she expresses an interest in learning more.
You might want to check out the most recent issue of Home Education
Magazine's (www.home-ed-magazine.com) online newsletter since there were a
few links for math education sites - not just worksheets either.
I don't think your husband should be too worried about when they enter
university. They'll probably have retained more than most kids do. In fact,
I have a hard time remembering anything I learned about math beyond basic
algebra and I made it through college :).
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
I also have a young child - 17 months - and am still in the discovering
stage of unschooling. I've often wondered about math, too, since I've never
had much of an interest in the subject but want to make it as fun as
possible for her when she expresses an interest in learning more.
You might want to check out the most recent issue of Home Education
Magazine's (www.home-ed-magazine.com) online newsletter since there were a
few links for math education sites - not just worksheets either.
I don't think your husband should be too worried about when they enter
university. They'll probably have retained more than most kids do. In fact,
I have a hard time remembering anything I learned about math beyond basic
algebra and I made it through college :).
Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls
> In my mind I do have a picture of children discovering Mathematics
> for themselves if they are interested, but I'm having difficulty
> putting this over to DH.
Roni Murphy
My kids do grocery store math. Yesterday we compared package sizes and used multiplication and adding and subtracting. We also used the scale in the produce department to learn about weights and learn to estimate what something might weigh. We also reviewed how many oz. were in a pound and things like that. So whatever we are doing there are lots of opportunities to use applicable basic math. Cooking is a good thing to do when learning math, especially fractions, and lots of fun too. There are a couple of good books out there using cooking as a fun way to teach science and do art activities. Later when I find the books I'll give you the titles and the author. We also have this game called "The Bead Game". It has several different games you can play using beads and laces and dice in fun ways to learn math. We also have those games you can get at Wal-Mart !
they have an addition and subtraction game and a multiplication game (they are shaped like flashlights). Also we use computer games like Jumpstart which are really fun and full of good learning. These are just a few ideas. With an older child they can learn to budget their allowance or even help with the family budget.
Roni
dawn
>exactly. my 8 yr old (well, he'll be 8 tomorrow--my how time flies) wants
> If they choose to become a person who needs to know formal mathematics,
> they will learn it at that point. Unschooling doesn't mean no formal
> classes, it means the child decides whether or not to do them.(IMO)
>
to be a scientist, mathmetist (as he calls it), or philospher. He knows
he needs a solid foundation in math and logic to do any of these things.
He asked this year for a systematic way to improve math. So, he's
methodically working through Saxon 54 and 67 to get a solid grasp of the
fundamentals. He is still looking for challenging math, though. We also
engage in lots of logical thinking activities and stuff, too. He is
hoping to be ready for algebra in a year so that he can better understand
the math that goes along with some of the science he reads about. OTOH,
his younger brother is not interested one iota in anything academic at age
5. I'm sure, though, that as his interests evolve, he'll become
interested. He has asked for some reading assistance, but the interest
really isn't there enough to hold his attention. Funny, though, how
quickly he learned to write his name when he realized he could get a
library card....took all of 5 minutes.
dawn h-s
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/4/2000 1:15:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Mactier@... writes:
can be sure I teach what is needed for success in college. Our son is 12 and
we are only beginning formal math training. I'm amazed at how much he
already knows. That gives me quite a lot of confidence in the natural
learning process. It has been a little scary to hold off and not push math
in a formal way and 12 is not a magic age, that's just where we are.
In his earlier years he has played with different bricks, geoboards, computer
games, helped me with shopping/cooking/sewing and other activities that
required math skills, he helps us plan trips and figure out the shortest
route and how long it will take to get there, he handles his own money
including figuring out percentages for spending or donations. Because of
these activities, he had a pretty good handle on math ability.
I'm pleased that we are using a more formal training as well, however and
here's why. We are finding that he often has the skill (say multiplication)
but he doesn't know what the text book is asking for when he is instructed to
multiply 6 by 5. Becoming familiar with the language that will be used by
college instructors is important. I've found it interesting to note that the
language varies so much from text to text or from instructor to instructor,
so even with this preparation there will still be some adapting to future
teachers. Still, I think it will help.
It doesn't hurt that my dh and I both like math and science, I suppose. This
is a subject that our family has fun doing together. Perhaps my answer might
be different if it were a chore to any of us.
I really believe that math skills can be polished at a later date and there
is no real need to insist on formal early training. The push for learning
more and more at an earlier age is not a valid method, IMO.
Something else to think about (and someone else may have already pointed this
out...) anything that is not covered by you can be learned rapidly when the
need arises. It happens all the time. My point being if you are concerned
that you'll miss something important, relax. You and your children will
learn what you need when you need it.
Hope it helps (if not, feel free to ignore it! <BG>),
Eiraul
Mactier@... writes:
> He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculumWe've done both. I felt that I needed a curriculum to follow for math so I
> in some subjects – like Mathematics – how else will they be able to
> enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
> astronomer or whatever??
>
can be sure I teach what is needed for success in college. Our son is 12 and
we are only beginning formal math training. I'm amazed at how much he
already knows. That gives me quite a lot of confidence in the natural
learning process. It has been a little scary to hold off and not push math
in a formal way and 12 is not a magic age, that's just where we are.
In his earlier years he has played with different bricks, geoboards, computer
games, helped me with shopping/cooking/sewing and other activities that
required math skills, he helps us plan trips and figure out the shortest
route and how long it will take to get there, he handles his own money
including figuring out percentages for spending or donations. Because of
these activities, he had a pretty good handle on math ability.
I'm pleased that we are using a more formal training as well, however and
here's why. We are finding that he often has the skill (say multiplication)
but he doesn't know what the text book is asking for when he is instructed to
multiply 6 by 5. Becoming familiar with the language that will be used by
college instructors is important. I've found it interesting to note that the
language varies so much from text to text or from instructor to instructor,
so even with this preparation there will still be some adapting to future
teachers. Still, I think it will help.
It doesn't hurt that my dh and I both like math and science, I suppose. This
is a subject that our family has fun doing together. Perhaps my answer might
be different if it were a chore to any of us.
I really believe that math skills can be polished at a later date and there
is no real need to insist on formal early training. The push for learning
more and more at an earlier age is not a valid method, IMO.
Something else to think about (and someone else may have already pointed this
out...) anything that is not covered by you can be learned rapidly when the
need arises. It happens all the time. My point being if you are concerned
that you'll miss something important, relax. You and your children will
learn what you need when you need it.
Hope it helps (if not, feel free to ignore it! <BG>),
Eiraul
Carolyn
dawn wrote:
> Unschooling doesn't mean no formalI'm very new at this, having just pulled my 10 year old daughter out of public school a little over a month ago now. I'm telling myself, she's depressurizing and I'm going to allow her time to do that without pressure to do something "constructive".
> classes, it means the child decides whether or not to do them.(IMO)
We've talked a lot about what she's interested in and what she's not interested in and it's becoming clear to me that she doesn't really know. So I have found myself trying to put interesting things within her reach and let her pick them up or not. For example, she declared herself not interested in history or colonial America. I rented Roots at the local library and invited her to watch. Last night we finished watching the last of the six videotapes. During movie time, it was her idea to tell her friends on the telephone that she was busy watching Roots and couldn't talk. We all enjoyedd it thoroughly.
I feel like I'm cheating but how can she know if she's interested in history or not when her exposure to the subject is limited to what they presented in public school? It seems to me like my job is to offer lots of interesting activities and see which ones she wants to delve into. I'd prefer it, I think, if she had some grand passion for something and I'd help her pursue it.
Carolyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/05/2000 10:24:18 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
nielsonc@... writes:
<< I feel like I'm cheating but how can she know if she's interested in
history or not when her exposure to the subject is limited to what they
presented in public school? It seems to me like my job is to offer
lots of interesting activities and see which ones she wants to delve
into. I'd prefer it, I think, if she had some grand passion for
something and I'd help her pursue it.
Carolyn
passion" (if she ever needs one) if she's never exposed to a rich mixture of
what's out there in the world. Lots of choices, a library card and a mom
with a working car -- you'll do great!
Nance
nielsonc@... writes:
<< I feel like I'm cheating but how can she know if she's interested in
history or not when her exposure to the subject is limited to what they
presented in public school? It seems to me like my job is to offer
lots of interesting activities and see which ones she wants to delve
into. I'd prefer it, I think, if she had some grand passion for
something and I'd help her pursue it.
Carolyn
>>I don't think you're cheating! LOL How will she ever discover her "grand
passion" (if she ever needs one) if she's never exposed to a rich mixture of
what's out there in the world. Lots of choices, a library card and a mom
with a working car -- you'll do great!
Nance
Julie
>I would be tempted to say that they are more likely to be creative when it
>
> Dalene Mactier wrote:
> >
> > He feels that they will have to follow at a least a formal curriculum
> > in some subjects - like Mathematics - how else will they be able to
> > enter unversity if they would choose a career as a scientist or
> > astronomer or whatever??
> >
comes to maths if they do not have a formal curriculim. Formal learning of
subjects often prohibits true understanding of a subject. Understanding
goes so much deeper when you figure it out yourself. I suppose I am talking
more about discovery for younger children and early teens raher thatn for
somebody who has decided to follow a math calling and seek formal
instruction/exploration. But in our house, the basics have just happened.
Pocket money, manipulatives just played with, counting by 2s or 5s for the
fun of it. (I remember one of the kids doing a workbook type thing which was
adding/subtracting the teens. For every problem she subtracted 10 and
added/subtracted the remainder and then added the 10 back on again. Talk
about understanding of the decimal number system...now, what would have
happened if I had tried to "teach" that?) We also talk alot about conceptual
mathmatics and build things like Mobius strips and Klein cubes. Check out
http://www.tarquin-books.demon.co.uk/ What a shame that you don't get
to the fun stuff until too late if you follow a linear curriculum. I am only
just realizing how cool maths is because I am learning it all over again
with my kids.
Peace
Julie
[email protected]
Just to put our two penneth in - maths only exists in our house in fractions.
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-12-07 06:05:33 EST, you write:
<< Understanding
goes so much deeper when you figure it out yourself. >>
This is holding very true with my kids.
And when you have learned something by actually needing and doing it, once
you come to the formal presentation all you're learning is vocabulary because
you already understand the concepts.
Understanding algebra first and THEN seeing an equation is WAY more sensible
than someone showing you a jumble of numbers and trying to turn it into real
pictures in your head.
Any parent who can't imagine how algebra could be intuitively understood
probably doesn't actually understand how algebra can be used in everyday
life, and so... even though they took Algebra I when they were 13 and Algebra
II when they were 15, or Algebra in college, maybe they only understand how
to run numbers through pre-provided "problems" and don't understand what it
is in the everyday world.
My husband's a math guy. I told him I only ever liked and understood the word
problems, but most of my friends hated the word problems. He said the word
problems are the ONLY problems in math books. The "number problems" are the
solutions to unstated problems, without the computations done.
Sandra
<< Understanding
goes so much deeper when you figure it out yourself. >>
This is holding very true with my kids.
And when you have learned something by actually needing and doing it, once
you come to the formal presentation all you're learning is vocabulary because
you already understand the concepts.
Understanding algebra first and THEN seeing an equation is WAY more sensible
than someone showing you a jumble of numbers and trying to turn it into real
pictures in your head.
Any parent who can't imagine how algebra could be intuitively understood
probably doesn't actually understand how algebra can be used in everyday
life, and so... even though they took Algebra I when they were 13 and Algebra
II when they were 15, or Algebra in college, maybe they only understand how
to run numbers through pre-provided "problems" and don't understand what it
is in the everyday world.
My husband's a math guy. I told him I only ever liked and understood the word
problems, but most of my friends hated the word problems. He said the word
problems are the ONLY problems in math books. The "number problems" are the
solutions to unstated problems, without the computations done.
Sandra
Valerie
Just to put our two penneth in - maths only exists in our house in
fractions.
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
**Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in a homeschooling magazine...kids sitting
at a table, the mom serving cake. One kid exclaims: "Oh boy! Fractions!"
--Valerie
fractions.
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
**Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in a homeschooling magazine...kids sitting
at a table, the mom serving cake. One kid exclaims: "Oh boy! Fractions!"
--Valerie
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/07/2000 4:20:54 PM !!!First Boot!!!, CallyAnt@...
writes:
<< Just to put our two penneth in - maths only exists in our house in
fractions.
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
couldn't even talk!! :):)
Nance
writes:
<< Just to put our two penneth in - maths only exists in our house in
fractions.
As in "her piece of cake is bigger than mine"!
Here's hoping my children progress beyond this stage so we can get onto the
real fun stuff of percentages. As in "she's got 25% more sweets than me"!
Caroline
>>Remember when they were really little and it was so nice and quiet and they
couldn't even talk!! :):)
Nance