Debra Bures

My husband and I are potters and we have a gallery alonside our studio. We face the dichotomy of being a socially and environmentally responsible business,but one whose existance depends upon consumerism.  We make things by hand, one at a time, and we hope that folks only have to buy the product once--since it is made to last.  We are not small business, we are micro-business. 
 If you chose to shop for the holidays--or for that matter, for any reason, please consider bypassing the various Marts and patronize the folks like us, who are, just folks like you.
 Hoping to make a difference and leave the planet a better place... 
 Debra

Julie

Hello everybody
I am Julie and i live in Manchester, England with my partner and our four
kids. Just thought I would jump in and say Hello. I don't really have
anything else to say right now as I am finding it hard keeping up with all
my email (finding it hard keeping up with the kids as well!) But if
anybody can share some of their experience with unschooling and Washington
State laws, i'd be interested as we are considering a move.
Peace
Julie

Cory and Amy Nelson

Hi Julie! No advice for you regarding Washington State laws except to check
out www.nhen.org as someone recently suggesting. I'm new here myself.

Amy
Mama to Accalia (6/14/99)
"The hardest to learn was the least complicated" -Indigo Girls

But if
> anybody can share some of their experience with unschooling and Washington
> State laws, i'd be interested as we are considering a move.
> Peace
> Julie

Tracy Oldfield

HI, Julie, I'm Tracy, and I live over t'other side of
the Pennines, my dear! So I can't tell you about
Washington State, but if you're over this way you're
welcome to drop in!

Tracy

Hello everybody
I am Julie and i live in Manchester, England with my
partner and our four
kids. Just thought I would jump in and say Hello. I
don't really have
anything else to say right now as I am finding it hard
keeping up with all
my email (finding it hard keeping up with the kids as
well!) But if
anybody can share some of their experience with
unschooling and Washington
State laws, i'd be interested as we are considering a
move.
Peace
Julie

[email protected]

but one whose existance depends upon consumerism

Your existance must depend on consumerism; you live in a capitalist
state. One can practice cooperative socialism or the like, but may
only take it so far when the econemy and social structure in which
one exists is capitalist. I recently whent on a search for a
socially responsible mutual fund. I looked at Pax, Domini, and the
rest, adn was satisfied with none. Nike here, Wal-mart there, Intel
over there. I expressed my frustration to a long-time socialist and
wa-resistor. He basically told me the same thing I am stating here.
One cannot live purely in a socialist of communist or anarchist way
unless one is living on land far away from society and self-
sustaining. There is a community like this in Denmark, Christiana (I
think I spelled that right). Ther are pretty much a self-sustaining
community. And the Danish government leaves them alone. Of course,
Denmark is socialist (as is Sweeden, Norway, France, Germany, . . .)
You would never see that in this country.

What one must do then is to use the power of the consumerm, the laws
of supply and demand, to force the economy further in the wanted
direction. Just like what you are asking. Take hemp papere for
example. Demand is low, supply is low, prices are high. If however,
demand were to increase, and systenms were developed to mass produce
hemp paper, it would cost less than wood paper today (the production
requires less resources). It's hard because most often those of us
who wish for that utopian economy are those who can afford the higher
prices of "buying right". Instead our pocket books tell us to go to
Wal-mart instead of the family business on the corner.

OK, I'm rambling (it is just too hard to express a truly solid
argument for these without writing a book; everything is integral to
the everything else). The points are:

1) If you live in today's America, you have to participate in
consumerism to survive. The question is to what degree should you
participate in consumerism (X-mas is all about profits as far as the
markets are concerned, but that is another story).

2) One must support food coops, art coops, and the rest whenever
possible to increase awareness, drive down prices in that market, and
decrease revenues in others.

Seamus

======================================================================
See Jane. See Jane Run.
See Jane Run Her School.
See Jane Run Her Life.

Cascade Valley School
http://www.casval.org
======================================================================

DiamondAir

> What one must do then is to use the power of the consumerm, the laws
> of supply and demand, to force the economy further in the wanted
> direction. .......<snip>....It's hard because most often those of us
> who wish for that utopian economy are those who can afford the higher
> prices of "buying right". Instead our pocket books tell us to go to
> Wal-mart instead of the family business on the corner.

This is a great point. I'm so excited to see very mainstream things "going
organic". I picked up some Gold Medal organic flour at my local supermarket
for Christmas baking. General Mills is making an organic breakfast cereal,
Western Family now has organic apple juice in the gigantic economy jug, etc.
etc. Obviously, all us people "voting with our dollars" are doing some good
if the mainstream companies are starting to purchase organically grown items
for their products.
My husband often despairs over our grocery bill because it's 25% higher than
it would be if I didn't buy organic/local and shop at our neighborhood
store. I figure as long as we can afford it, or during the times in which we
can afford it, we should do it to "pave the way".

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "What if there was no gravity, but we all held on
to something really tight??"
and Asa (10/5/99) who says "Odwalla!" (her favorite treat at the store)
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

Olivia

About a year and a half ago we began grocery shopping at a natural food
store so we could buy more organic items. This was mainly my idea and, at
first, my husband would complain about the increase in our grocery bill
(about $25 per week). Now he has gotten used to it. Plus, he sees that we
actually buy less junk and throw away less food. Our choices are more
deliberate. We used to buy large quantities of things because they were on
sale, stockpile them (esp. canned goods) for future use or assume we could
eat that much (with a family of only three!), then throw them away months
later when they had passed their expiration dates or had rotted in the
refrigerator. It was a waste. Now we eat almost everything we buy before
our next shopping trip. I am working on using less paper, plastic and
cleaners. My son is learning along with us, about the ingredients in foods
and recycling, etc.

You are right about consumer support of environmentally-friendly items
being important. I think it will eventually bring the prices down; someone
has to start somewhere if that is what one supports. I have been reading a
lot about organic cotton and hemp and would love to see more products made
of these materials, but the prices now are so high that they are
prohibitive for most of us. It is really hard to justify (esp. to DH)
spending $50 for a pair of organic cotton pants when I could get the same,
non-organic pair at a discount store for $15. It is my goal for 2001 to
try to "put my money where my mouth is" when it comes to "green" living
whenever I can.

I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a discussion
list online that deals with transitioning to a more "green" lifestyle?

Olivia





>This is a great point. I'm so excited to see very mainstream things "going
>organic". I picked up some Gold Medal organic flour at my local supermarket
>for Christmas baking. General Mills is making an organic breakfast cereal,
>Western Family now has organic apple juice in the gigantic economy jug, etc.
>etc. Obviously, all us people "voting with our dollars" are doing some good
>if the mainstream companies are starting to purchase organically grown items
>for their products.
>My husband often despairs over our grocery bill because it's 25% higher than
>it would be if I didn't buy organic/local and shop at our neighborhood
>store. I figure as long as we can afford it, or during the times in which we
>can afford it, we should do it to "pave the way".
>
>Blue Skies!
> -Robin-
>Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "What if there was no gravity, but we all held on
>to something really tight??"
>and Asa (10/5/99) who says "Odwalla!" (her favorite treat at the store)
>http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/16/00 3:46:49 PM, liv2learn@... writes:

<< I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a discussion
list online that deals with transitioning to a more "green" lifestyle?
>>

i would be interested in this as well.

~~maryann~~
"rules are guidelines!"
check out ~ http://www.bangmusicstore.com

Tami Labig-Duquette

We grow our own fruits and vegetables. I prefer no meat but my son and honey
loves it ( YUK) I also grow our own herbs and some spices. So if I could
only find an organic grocer here I would be hapy!!
Tami


>From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] consumerism
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:46:29 -0500
>
>About a year and a half ago we began grocery shopping at a natural food
>store so we could buy more organic items. This was mainly my idea and, at
>first, my husband would complain about the increase in our grocery bill
>(about $25 per week). Now he has gotten used to it. Plus, he sees that we
>actually buy less junk and throw away less food. Our choices are more
>deliberate. We used to buy large quantities of things because they were on
>sale, stockpile them (esp. canned goods) for future use or assume we could
>eat that much (with a family of only three!), then throw them away months
>later when they had passed their expiration dates or had rotted in the
>refrigerator. It was a waste. Now we eat almost everything we buy before
>our next shopping trip. I am working on using less paper, plastic and
>cleaners. My son is learning along with us, about the ingredients in foods
>and recycling, etc.
>
>You are right about consumer support of environmentally-friendly items
>being important. I think it will eventually bring the prices down; someone
>has to start somewhere if that is what one supports. I have been reading a
>lot about organic cotton and hemp and would love to see more products made
>of these materials, but the prices now are so high that they are
>prohibitive for most of us. It is really hard to justify (esp. to DH)
>spending $50 for a pair of organic cotton pants when I could get the same,
>non-organic pair at a discount store for $15. It is my goal for 2001 to
>try to "put my money where my mouth is" when it comes to "green" living
>whenever I can.
>
>I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a discussion
>list online that deals with transitioning to a more "green" lifestyle?
>
>Olivia
>
>
>
>
>
> >This is a great point. I'm so excited to see very mainstream things
>"going
> >organic". I picked up some Gold Medal organic flour at my local
>supermarket
> >for Christmas baking. General Mills is making an organic breakfast
>cereal,
> >Western Family now has organic apple juice in the gigantic economy jug,
>etc.
> >etc. Obviously, all us people "voting with our dollars" are doing some
>good
> >if the mainstream companies are starting to purchase organically grown
>items
> >for their products.
> >My husband often despairs over our grocery bill because it's 25% higher
>than
> >it would be if I didn't buy organic/local and shop at our neighborhood
> >store. I figure as long as we can afford it, or during the times in which
>we
> >can afford it, we should do it to "pave the way".
> >
> >Blue Skies!
> > -Robin-
> >Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "What if there was no gravity, but we all held
>on
> >to something really tight??"
> >and Asa (10/5/99) who says "Odwalla!" (her favorite treat at the store)
> >http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
>Unsubscribe: [email protected]
>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Olivia

Homegrown is even better, although more work for you. I have a very
small and heavily shaded yard and nothing grows but mold. Our old
house had a great sunny place for growing. I miss it. I would also
prefer a veg. diet but ds and dh like meat at least twice a week.

Olivia


--- In [email protected], "Tami Labig-Duquette"
<labigduquette@h...> wrote:
> We grow our own fruits and vegetables. I prefer no meat but my son
and honey loves it ( YUK) I also grow our own herbs and some spices.
So if I could only find an organic grocer here I would be hapy!!
> Tami

Olivia

If we can't find a list, we could always start one. :-)

Olivia



--- In [email protected], mabushka59@a... wrote:
>
> i would be interested in this as well.
>
> ~~maryann~~
> "rules are guidelines!"
> check out ~ http://www.bangmusicstore.com

>
> In a message dated 12/16/00 3:46:49 PM, liv2learn@y... writes:
>
> << I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a
discussion
> list online that deals with transitioning to a more "green"
lifestyle?
> >>

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/17/00 10:14:54 AM, liv2learn@... writes:

<< If we can't find a list, we could always start one. :-)

Olivia >>

i was thinking the same thing. egroups makes it pretty easy to set up.

~~maryann~~
"rules are guidelines!"
check out ~ http://www.bangmusicstore.com

Deirdre Malfatto

> << If we can't find a list, we could always start one. :-)
>
> Olivia >>
>
> i was thinking the same thing. egroups makes it pretty easy to set up.

I've been thinking more about this...I think it would be a really good thing. I
would set it up myself if I weren't already moderating two lists, which is
already too much for me. But I would definitely join!

Deirdre

Lynda

We have gone organic. At first the kidlets had fits but even my junk food
junkie (teenager <g>) came up the other day and said that organic really
tastes better. He was even "caught" telling a friend that organic food has
more flavor <g>

We have gone a step further and gotten rid of all plastics, aluminum and
teflon. We are lucky to live in an old house (1903) that isn't full of
formaldehyde. I just wish the all organic cotton mattresses didn't cost as
much as the mortgage on a house!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tami Labig-Duquette" <labigduquette@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] consumerism


> We grow our own fruits and vegetables. I prefer no meat but my son and
honey
> loves it ( YUK) I also grow our own herbs and some spices. So if I could
> only find an organic grocer here I would be hapy!!
> Tami
>
>
> >From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] consumerism
> >Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:46:29 -0500
> >
> >About a year and a half ago we began grocery shopping at a natural food
> >store so we could buy more organic items. This was mainly my idea and, at
> >first, my husband would complain about the increase in our grocery bill
> >(about $25 per week). Now he has gotten used to it. Plus, he sees that we
> >actually buy less junk and throw away less food. Our choices are more
> >deliberate. We used to buy large quantities of things because they were
on
> >sale, stockpile them (esp. canned goods) for future use or assume we
could
> >eat that much (with a family of only three!), then throw them away months
> >later when they had passed their expiration dates or had rotted in the
> >refrigerator. It was a waste. Now we eat almost everything we buy before
> >our next shopping trip. I am working on using less paper, plastic and
> >cleaners. My son is learning along with us, about the ingredients in
foods
> >and recycling, etc.
> >
> >You are right about consumer support of environmentally-friendly items
> >being important. I think it will eventually bring the prices down;
someone
> >has to start somewhere if that is what one supports. I have been reading
a
> >lot about organic cotton and hemp and would love to see more products
made
> >of these materials, but the prices now are so high that they are
> >prohibitive for most of us. It is really hard to justify (esp. to DH)
> >spending $50 for a pair of organic cotton pants when I could get the
same,
> >non-organic pair at a discount store for $15. It is my goal for 2001 to
> >try to "put my money where my mouth is" when it comes to "green" living
> >whenever I can.
> >
> >I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a
discussion
> >list online that deals with transitioning to a more "green" lifestyle?
> >
> >Olivia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >This is a great point. I'm so excited to see very mainstream things
> >"going
> > >organic". I picked up some Gold Medal organic flour at my local
> >supermarket
> > >for Christmas baking. General Mills is making an organic breakfast
> >cereal,
> > >Western Family now has organic apple juice in the gigantic economy jug,
> >etc.
> > >etc. Obviously, all us people "voting with our dollars" are doing some
> >good
> > >if the mainstream companies are starting to purchase organically grown
> >items
> > >for their products.
> > >My husband often despairs over our grocery bill because it's 25% higher
> >than
> > >it would be if I didn't buy organic/local and shop at our neighborhood
> > >store. I figure as long as we can afford it, or during the times in
which
> >we
> > >can afford it, we should do it to "pave the way".
> > >
> > >Blue Skies!
> > > -Robin-
> > >Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "What if there was no gravity, but we all
held
> >on
> > >to something really tight??"
> > >and Asa (10/5/99) who says "Odwalla!" (her favorite treat at the store)
> > >http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >Addresses:
> >Post message: [email protected]
> >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> >List owner: [email protected]
> >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

Tami Labig-Duquette

Deidre,
Ok I have been thinking maybe I should, so I will send info soon LOL whats the worst that can happen?
Time monoply? But I love living the way we do and would like to share!
Tami

----- Original Message -----
From: Deirdre Malfatto
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: consumerism

> << If we can't find a list, we could always start one. :-)
>
> Olivia >>
>
> i was thinking the same thing.  egroups makes it pretty easy to set up.

I've been thinking more about this...I think it would be a really good thing.  I
would set it up myself if I weren't already moderating two lists, which is
already too much for me.  But I would definitely join!

Deirdre

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Tami Labig-Duquette

www.egroups.com/group/organicallygreen.com
 
I think it might work! Join now!

----- Original Message -----
From: Tami Labig-Duquette
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: consumerism

Deidre,
Ok I have been thinking maybe I should, so I will send info soon LOL whats the worst that can happen?
Time monoply? But I love living the way we do and would like to share!
Tami

----- Original Message -----
From: Deirdre Malfatto
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: consumerism

> << If we can't find a list, we could always start one. :-)
>
> Olivia >>
>
> i was thinking the same thing.  egroups makes it pretty easy to set up.

I've been thinking more about this...I think it would be a really good thing.  I
would set it up myself if I weren't already moderating two lists, which is
already too much for me.  But I would definitely join!

Deirdre

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Big News - eGroups is becoming Yahoo! Groups
Click here for more details:
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Sherry Hagen

Hi folks,

I've been checking in on the list and the whole consumerism topic. I'd
like to join a list too. We sure are bombarded with consumerism. It
would be nice to have a greenparenting list. Or would organicparenting
be better. I've been teaching my son that you can often make things
rather than buy them. Most of our Christmas gifts are handmade. Nice
to hear of so many other folks bringing up the same issue. If any of
you folks out there are of a Christian background or even if you are not
get a hold of Earthministry. You can get a hold of them a
emoffice@.... They also have a websight. They had a
book review of a book called "Stories of the Land: A Place-basssed
Envirionmental Education Anthololgy" I haven't seen it but it's
designed to teach children about their own backyard envirionment and
designed for schools. I want to get a copy through the library if
possible. Well back to making more Christmas presents. I'm currently
making velvet shopping bags (using velvet scraps given to me) with
canvas liners with canvas my husband last job through out.

Blessings,
Sherry

Tami Labig-Duquette

LOL ok so I am new to this, will try to figure it out.
Golly I feel silly!!
Tami-who has had the giggles all day for no apparent reason

>From: Cindy Ferguson <crma@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: consumerism
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:17:34 -0800
>
>
>Tami wrote :
> > www.egroups.com/group/organicallygreen.com
> >
> > I think it might work! Join now!
>
>It doesn't work, Tami.
>
>I could not find the group listed in egroups - I searched for
>organically.
>
>Egroups gives you the URL when you create a group and you can cut
>and paste it into the message. It also gives an email address that
>can be used to subscribe too for those who prefer to join lists that
>way!
>
>--
>
>Cindy Ferguson
>crma@...
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
>Unsubscribe: [email protected]
>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Olivia

Thanks for taking the initiative! Keep us posted when it is up and running.

Olivia



> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:12:25 -0500
> From: "Tami Labig-Duquette" <labigduquette@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: consumerism
>
>www.egroups.com/group/organicallygreen.com
>
>I think it might work! Join now!

Tami Labig-Duquette

<center>
<a href="http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/organicalygreen">
<img src="http://www.egroups.com/img/ui/join.gif" border=0><br>
Click to subscribe to organicalygreen</a>
</center>

Ok, this is it.
Very new so very slow!
Tami


>From: Olivia <liv2learn@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] consumerism
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:43:09 -0500
>
>Thanks for taking the initiative! Keep us posted when it is up and running.
>
>Olivia
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:12:25 -0500
> > From: "Tami Labig-Duquette" <labigduquette@...>
> >Subject: Re: Re: consumerism
> >
> >www.egroups.com/group/organicallygreen.com
> >
> >I think it might work! Join now!
>
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
>Unsubscribe: [email protected]
>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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