[Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
Hey you fellow parents, especially those with difficult and special needs children...I need help!! I'm sure that most of you know by now about my eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is hyperactive, hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be touched or touch someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional.
My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have these pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his way, as I don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around. However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day. More often though, it is at bedtime.
Until recently, bedtime was not too big a deal. He would go to bed without much fuss and would play quietly until he dropped off to sleep. Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide when it's bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries hysterically, trashes his room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In general he makes a huge amount of noise, makes a big mess and upsets everyone in the house. This goes on for up to two hours at a time, and we are quickly losing our patience after about a week of this.
I make him clean up the mess in the morning (although he needs a bit of help to keep him directed and focused.) We also go in to talk to him several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is disturbing everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we beg and plead, but short of tying him down I don't know what else to do. He usually says that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him that we are not in bed yet, but if he is still awake when we go to bed, he can go with us.
Last night he was up throwing a tantrum until midnight. When he finally quieted down, we went to bed. I have a pretty bad cold and am feeling pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he could not come to bed with us because I was all achey and I did not want to be breathing all over him all night. Well, he woke up again around 2am and started screaming. He often has nightmares, so we brought him to bed with us. He proceeded to wiggle and giggle until we got fed up and put him back to bed around 4:30am. He promptly began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had to threaten to put him in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't quiet down and let us and his brother sleep.
I am worried that this might be allergy related, but I cannot isolate a probable cause for it. Any ideas??
Nanci K.
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My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have these pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his way, as I don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around. However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day. More often though, it is at bedtime.
Until recently, bedtime was not too big a deal. He would go to bed without much fuss and would play quietly until he dropped off to sleep. Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide when it's bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries hysterically, trashes his room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In general he makes a huge amount of noise, makes a big mess and upsets everyone in the house. This goes on for up to two hours at a time, and we are quickly losing our patience after about a week of this.
I make him clean up the mess in the morning (although he needs a bit of help to keep him directed and focused.) We also go in to talk to him several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is disturbing everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we beg and plead, but short of tying him down I don't know what else to do. He usually says that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him that we are not in bed yet, but if he is still awake when we go to bed, he can go with us.
Last night he was up throwing a tantrum until midnight. When he finally quieted down, we went to bed. I have a pretty bad cold and am feeling pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he could not come to bed with us because I was all achey and I did not want to be breathing all over him all night. Well, he woke up again around 2am and started screaming. He often has nightmares, so we brought him to bed with us. He proceeded to wiggle and giggle until we got fed up and put him back to bed around 4:30am. He promptly began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had to threaten to put him in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't quiet down and let us and his brother sleep.
I am worried that this might be allergy related, but I cannot isolate a probable cause for it. Any ideas??
Nanci K.
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Have you ever considered letting him share a bed with one of his older
siblings?
I have a 9yo and a 4yo ,they both have their own rooms but like to share the
olders bed. When one wakes up from a bad dream, they just snuggle and fall
back asleep. The companionship also keeps my 4yo from fighting bedtime
because she feels safe. You could also lay down and rub his back until he
falls
asleep. It takes more effort but is much more peaceful than 2 hours of his
screaming and your pleading! My 9yo also has allergies, has always had
nightmares and used to have some pretty forceful fits, so maybe there is a
connection?
siblings?
I have a 9yo and a 4yo ,they both have their own rooms but like to share the
olders bed. When one wakes up from a bad dream, they just snuggle and fall
back asleep. The companionship also keeps my 4yo from fighting bedtime
because she feels safe. You could also lay down and rub his back until he
falls
asleep. It takes more effort but is much more peaceful than 2 hours of his
screaming and your pleading! My 9yo also has allergies, has always had
nightmares and used to have some pretty forceful fits, so maybe there is a
connection?
Sarah Carothers
I enjoyed a book, Strong-Willed Child
or Dreamer? that deals with some of this. Maybe reading it would give you a
different POV from which to approach this.
Sarah
----- Original Message -----Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:36 AMSubject: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!Hey you fellow parents, especially those with difficult and special needs children...I need help!! I'm sure that most of you know by now about my eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is hyperactive, hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be touched or touch someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional
Valerie
Nanci,
Perhaps he is coming down with, or his body is trying _not_ to come down
with, the cold that you have? I know this has happened to us before and it
really comes out around bedtime. Or maybe he has an ear infection due to
allergies and the possible cold?
It always helped my little ones to have a quiet evening...not easy in this
house...but at least no TV or videos or wild playing for an hour before
bedtime. Too stimulating.
hope this helps, hang in there, Mom...Valerie
Perhaps he is coming down with, or his body is trying _not_ to come down
with, the cold that you have? I know this has happened to us before and it
really comes out around bedtime. Or maybe he has an ear infection due to
allergies and the possible cold?
It always helped my little ones to have a quiet evening...not easy in this
house...but at least no TV or videos or wild playing for an hour before
bedtime. Too stimulating.
hope this helps, hang in there, Mom...Valerie
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>Have you ever considered letting him share a bed with one of his older siblings?No, he is my eldest.
>You could also lay down and rub his back until he falls asleep.Doesn't work. If you are in the room with him and touching him, he usually stays awake. Tom tried to lie down with him last night, but he kept poking at him and messing with his face. He finally got tired of it and left. So the screaming started again. I often try to lie down with Thomas, or comfort him when he is having one of his fits. He usually orders me out. If he is having a tantrum and we put him in time out to calm down (he needs the quiet and solitude to regain control) and I go in there to try to help him get calm because he is out of control, he leans on the door to keep me out, or hides in the closet and yells at me to "GO AWAY MOMMY!!" He also hits me, kicks me, and throws things at me, even though I calmly tell him over and over that it is unacceptable behavior, and give him options on what he can hit and kick (his bed, his pillow, stuffed toys. I am afraid to put any pictures on his bare walls because of the kicking and throwing things.
>My 9yo also has allergies, has always had nightmares and used to >have some pretty forceful fits, so maybe there is aI think there might be, but he is already allergic to so many things that I am hesitant to remove anything more from his diet, nor can I determine what the cause might be.
>connection?
Nanci K.
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Hmmn, I guess he'd keep the little one awake - but you might give it a try
anyway?
If you are aware of food allergies than you must be aware of environmental
allergies such as dust and mold in carpets,bedding, stuffed animals etc...
There is a book, Natural Treatments for ADD and Hyperactivity - by Skye
Weintraub that would be really helpful. It explains many different reasons for
hyperactivity such as diet, vitamin/mineral deficiencies,hypoglycemia etc..
And if you've taken him off of many foods because of allergies you might want
to take him to a ND or nutritionalist that deals with allergies to make sure
he
doesn't have deficiencies that could also affect his mood.
I agree with the last reply - my hyperactive son was very much affected by
TV and computers especially at that age. We had to completely restrict TV
and still limit it now.
Another thing that really helped with us was to have a bedtime ritual that we
followed every night. Ours was a bath followed by a story in bed and a candle
to calm him down while we rubbed his back or just quietly layed next to him
until he fell asleep. And, yes, sometimes he did fool around, poke me in the
face, etc. - sometimes I was able to turn the other way and pretend I was
asleep
until he calmed down and sometimes I had to leave like your husband did.
Eventually he got better but maybe he just got older?
Goodluck and hang in there,
Dana
anyway?
If you are aware of food allergies than you must be aware of environmental
allergies such as dust and mold in carpets,bedding, stuffed animals etc...
There is a book, Natural Treatments for ADD and Hyperactivity - by Skye
Weintraub that would be really helpful. It explains many different reasons for
hyperactivity such as diet, vitamin/mineral deficiencies,hypoglycemia etc..
And if you've taken him off of many foods because of allergies you might want
to take him to a ND or nutritionalist that deals with allergies to make sure
he
doesn't have deficiencies that could also affect his mood.
I agree with the last reply - my hyperactive son was very much affected by
TV and computers especially at that age. We had to completely restrict TV
and still limit it now.
Another thing that really helped with us was to have a bedtime ritual that we
followed every night. Ours was a bath followed by a story in bed and a candle
to calm him down while we rubbed his back or just quietly layed next to him
until he fell asleep. And, yes, sometimes he did fool around, poke me in the
face, etc. - sometimes I was able to turn the other way and pretend I was
asleep
until he calmed down and sometimes I had to leave like your husband did.
Eventually he got better but maybe he just got older?
Goodluck and hang in there,
Dana
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/00 8:35:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
daughter. I was telling her how mine used to do that, but he stopped suddenly
when he was two. Well, the very next day he started again and went on for a
year or slightly more. He was almost four. These fits just stopped about a
month ago and for the life of me, I don't know why. We never gave in to his
tantrums. We couldn't give him time outs because he would harm his room and
maybe himself in the process. We couldn't give his things a time out because
he would get worse and try to get them back. In public he would control
himself because we would go home if he didn't and he knew that. In private,
we tried everything to no avail. What we did do was ignore most of it. Once
he started, we just tuned out and went on with our lives not paying any
attention to him. If he got physical, we would physically restrain him in a
corner or a chair while letting him know we could not allow him to hurt
anyone or anything, but it was perfectly okay for him to go on screaming if
that was what he needed. The difference in our situations is that our son
would throw fits because of something he wanted and not because of something
we wanted him to do. He wouldn't understand that something had to be
tomorrow and not today, or that he couldn't be the only one to take a bath.
If we wanted him to do something he didn't want to do, we would usually sit
down and work out a compromise. Sort of like people do with me when I don't
really want to do something. In exchange for a haircut he didn't want, we
would go on an extra park visit or whatever we decided would be a fair trade
off. He never had a bedtime, so I can't tell you from experience what to do
there, but would it be possible to let him stay up? If he is up early with
everyone, his body should tell him to go to sleep at the needed time. Maybe
you could let him watch a tape until he falls asleep on his own. I've always
been a night owl, so we're up late and sleep in late, but ds' body still
schedules ten to twelve hours sleep for him, without anyone telling him he
needs it. If we happen to have to be up early, he ends up falling asleep
earlier that evening. Anyway, I don't know how much help I've been, but I
wanted you to know you're not alone and maybe it's just a phase he needs to
go through. Mine still gets upset, but the difference is like night and day.
Cheryl
Nicholas Academy Homeschooling Resources
http://nicholasacademy.homestead.com
Get paid for your opinion:
http://nicholasacademy.epinions.com
tn-k4of5@... writes:
> My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendency to have theseI was talking with a neighbor about her one year old throwing-screaming-fits
> pretty impressive tantrums.
daughter. I was telling her how mine used to do that, but he stopped suddenly
when he was two. Well, the very next day he started again and went on for a
year or slightly more. He was almost four. These fits just stopped about a
month ago and for the life of me, I don't know why. We never gave in to his
tantrums. We couldn't give him time outs because he would harm his room and
maybe himself in the process. We couldn't give his things a time out because
he would get worse and try to get them back. In public he would control
himself because we would go home if he didn't and he knew that. In private,
we tried everything to no avail. What we did do was ignore most of it. Once
he started, we just tuned out and went on with our lives not paying any
attention to him. If he got physical, we would physically restrain him in a
corner or a chair while letting him know we could not allow him to hurt
anyone or anything, but it was perfectly okay for him to go on screaming if
that was what he needed. The difference in our situations is that our son
would throw fits because of something he wanted and not because of something
we wanted him to do. He wouldn't understand that something had to be
tomorrow and not today, or that he couldn't be the only one to take a bath.
If we wanted him to do something he didn't want to do, we would usually sit
down and work out a compromise. Sort of like people do with me when I don't
really want to do something. In exchange for a haircut he didn't want, we
would go on an extra park visit or whatever we decided would be a fair trade
off. He never had a bedtime, so I can't tell you from experience what to do
there, but would it be possible to let him stay up? If he is up early with
everyone, his body should tell him to go to sleep at the needed time. Maybe
you could let him watch a tape until he falls asleep on his own. I've always
been a night owl, so we're up late and sleep in late, but ds' body still
schedules ten to twelve hours sleep for him, without anyone telling him he
needs it. If we happen to have to be up early, he ends up falling asleep
earlier that evening. Anyway, I don't know how much help I've been, but I
wanted you to know you're not alone and maybe it's just a phase he needs to
go through. Mine still gets upset, but the difference is like night and day.
Cheryl
Nicholas Academy Homeschooling Resources
http://nicholasacademy.homestead.com
Get paid for your opinion:
http://nicholasacademy.epinions.com
Janette
Nanci,
Are you doing sensory integration therapy?
Seems like the brushing program would do wonders to calm him.
J.
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall wrote:
Hey you fellow parents, especially those with difficult and special needs children...I need help!! I'm sure that most of you know by now about my eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is hyperactive, hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be touched or touch someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional.My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have these pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his way, as I don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around. However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day. More often though, it is at bedtime.
Until recently, bedtime was not too big a deal. He would go to bed without much fuss and would play quietly until he dropped off to sleep. Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide when it's bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries hysterically, trashes his room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In general he makes a huge amount of noise, makes a big mess and upsets everyone in the house. This goes on for up to two hours at a time, and we are quickly losing our patience after about a week of this.
I make him clean up the mess in the morning (although he needs a bit of help to keep him directed and focused.) We also go in to talk to him several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is disturbing everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we beg and plead, but short of tying him down I don't know what else to do. He usually says that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him that we are not in bed yet, but if he is still awake when we go to bed, he can go with us.
Last night he was up throwing a tantrum until midnight. When he finally quieted down, we went to bed. I have a pretty bad cold and am feeling pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he could not come to bed with us because I was all achey and I did not want to be breathing all over him all night. Well, he woke up again around 2am and started screaming. He often has nightmares, so we brought him to bed with us. He proceeded to wiggle and giggle until we got fed up and put him back to bed around 4:30am. He promptly began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had to threaten to put him in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't quiet down and let us and his brother sleep.
I am worried that this might be allergy related, but I cannot isolate a probable cause for it. Any ideas??
Nanci K.
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Nancy,
I have not read your previous posts about your sons allergies, so I don;t
know the extent and the details. However, we dealt with allergies with my
5yo son almost two years ago. We are still dealing with it to an extent, but
things are much better now. After several failures with conventional meds
(drugs that I was really tired of giving to my son with no affect) we chose
some alternative therapies. One thing we did was see a nutritionist. She
explained to us that no matter what the allergy (and often allergies are very
deep seated) we needed to take all refined sugar out of Joshua's diet. This
meant huge adjustments, but it was worth it. She said that sugar, especially
in the quantities that Americans consume it, acts like a poison in our system
and suppresses our immune system. One thing someone who suffers from
allergies needs is a good healthy immune system. Aside from Joshua's
allergies being much more mild, his temperament is extremely different when
he has been off of sugar for a while and then gets it again (like at a
birthday party or something).
Just a thought. Good luck.
Sandy
I have not read your previous posts about your sons allergies, so I don;t
know the extent and the details. However, we dealt with allergies with my
5yo son almost two years ago. We are still dealing with it to an extent, but
things are much better now. After several failures with conventional meds
(drugs that I was really tired of giving to my son with no affect) we chose
some alternative therapies. One thing we did was see a nutritionist. She
explained to us that no matter what the allergy (and often allergies are very
deep seated) we needed to take all refined sugar out of Joshua's diet. This
meant huge adjustments, but it was worth it. She said that sugar, especially
in the quantities that Americans consume it, acts like a poison in our system
and suppresses our immune system. One thing someone who suffers from
allergies needs is a good healthy immune system. Aside from Joshua's
allergies being much more mild, his temperament is extremely different when
he has been off of sugar for a while and then gets it again (like at a
birthday party or something).
Just a thought. Good luck.
Sandy
mary krzyzanowski
Nancy,
I recommend the book, "The Out-of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz.
Your son's tactile sensitivites, allergies, need to be touched/touching
remind me of my son. For the bedtime troubles since he seems to like full
body contact in bed maybe a "body pillow" would be a good idea.
Mary-NY
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I recommend the book, "The Out-of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz.
Your son's tactile sensitivites, allergies, need to be touched/touching
remind me of my son. For the bedtime troubles since he seems to like full
body contact in bed maybe a "body pillow" would be a good idea.
Mary-NY
>From: Broadcolea@..._________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:08:34 EST
>
>Nancy,
>
>I have not read your previous posts about your sons allergies, so I don;t
>know the extent and the details. However, we dealt with allergies with my
>5yo son almost two years ago. We are still dealing with it to an extent,
>but
>things are much better now. After several failures with conventional meds
>(drugs that I was really tired of giving to my son with no affect) we chose
>some alternative therapies. One thing we did was see a nutritionist. She
>explained to us that no matter what the allergy (and often allergies are
>very
>deep seated) we needed to take all refined sugar out of Joshua's diet.
>This
>meant huge adjustments, but it was worth it. She said that sugar,
>especially
>in the quantities that Americans consume it, acts like a poison in our
>system
>and suppresses our immune system. One thing someone who suffers from
>allergies needs is a good healthy immune system. Aside from Joshua's
>allergies being much more mild, his temperament is extremely different when
>he has been off of sugar for a while and then gets it again (like at a
>birthday party or something).
>
>Just a thought. Good luck.
>
>Sandy
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Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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DiamondAir
> From: "Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall" <tn-k4of5@...>pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his way, as I
> My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have these
don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around.
However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an
episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day.
More often though, it is at bedtime. >>>>
I have a 4 y.o. also who sounds similar to yours. My son has Sensory
Integration issues, is hypersensitive to touch, etc. and has allergy
problems as well (he's had hives for 2 months now and so far we have not
been able to pinpoint it, despite elimination diets, testing, etc.). So I
can sympathize!!!
On the sleep issue - can you be with him physically until he goes to sleep?
Rock, sing, hug, or whatever works best for him. Although he sleeps in his
own bed, I still mother my son to sleep every night. He is still nursing at
bedtime, so that makes it much easier I would guess. Often he will ask for a
song as well. A bedtime routine that includes pleasing things can make the
transition easier. I've found that songs, routines, and rhythms go a long
way towards making transitions easier for my spirited son. Our bedimte
routine is that he plays a game with his dad while I get his sister to
sleep, gets his PJs on and brushes teeth (along with the teethbrushing
song). Then he and I go out and look at the stars, moon, sky together. We
come inside and sometimes he requests his "rocking song", where I will hold
him and dance to "10,000 Miles" by Mary Chapin Carpenter (his favorite
song). We go upstairs and he picks out a story to read, and then sometimes
asks me to tell him a story on my own too. Then I sing him a lullabye and
nurse him to sleep. Even if he is done nursing, I remain lying down with him
in his bed until he is completely asleep. I'd guess the whole routine takes
about 20 - 30 minutes. He is always free to come into our bed in the night,
provided he's quiet so that the rest of us aren't too disturbed. It sounds
like your son may be asking (albeit in a very roundabout way) for more
company at bedtime (a hard transition time for many kids).
Other things that help my son are deep tissue work - we make sure we do some
every day. We play a game called "The Sandwich" where he lies down on a
pillow (the "bread") and I "spread" mustard, relish, etc. on him with my
hands, using deep strokes down his back, arms, and legs going away from his
head. Then I put the other pillow "bread" on top and lay down on top of him.
Deep touch can really help kids with sensory issues, we got some good
suggestions from the book "The Out-Of-Sync Child". Taking him off of all
dairy and minimizing wheat glutens in his diet has also gone a very long way
towards helping his sensory problems.
Also, I'd have to say that I've found time-outs and other punishments to be
largely ineffective tools when dealing with behavior of this sort, because
they address what is happening at the surface, but not what is going on
underneath. Is there any way you can get to the root of what is bothering
him? It could be that if his sensory problems and allergies are problematic
enough that he just plain feels out of control in his own body. That can be
terribly frightening and kids of this age tend to lash out when frightened.
Can you be present with him and attempt to mirror his emotions verbally so
that he eventually has better tools for explaining himself? Is there
something that you can do to help him self-soothe - a special song you sing
just at these times? A certain way of rocking or holding? Is there any other
approaches you can use in helping him get control of his sensory issues? We
are looking for an Occupational Therapist right now for our own son, I know
many parents have felt that it really helped their kids feel more
comfortable in their own bodies.
Best of luck, I know that sometimes when there are so many "issues"
(allergy, sensitivity, etc.) you have to deal with, parenting becomes just
plain exhausting. When mom is exhausted, her own resources of patience and
energy run low and that makes it even harder for us mommies to deal
effectively when behavioral issues come up. You have my sympathies!!
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) "I have magic in my mind"
and Asa (10/5/99) who doesn't want to take her fairy wings off...ever
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Lynda
Nanci, have you "decorated" his room so that it is what is called a "soft"
space? When I worked in rehab we would go out and redo the bedrooms of
these children so that they were a soothing space for them to escape to.
Lynda
space? When I worked in rehab we would go out and redo the bedrooms of
these children so that they were a soothing space for them to escape to.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall" <tn-k4of5@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:44 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
>
> >Are you doing sensory integration therapy?
> >Seems like the brushing program would do wonders to calm him.
> >J.
>
> No, and where should I begin to find out more information about this
subject?
>
> Nanci K.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>Nanci, have you "decorated" his room so that it is what is called a "soft"How do I do this? Is this in general terms, or are there guidelines to this process of creating soft space?
>space?
Nanci K.
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Kathryn B Cauley
Hi nancy im new to the group and your story really reached out and
grabbed my heart strings. What a hard thing to go through and so trying!
i have a coulpe of suggestions and i hope you are not too overwhelmed
already. i have a friend that could not eat anything two hours before
bedtime or she could not settle down to sleep and she would have
nightmares. Along with the soft room i would recommend very pale, light
colors. also does your child have a special "woobie" for bed time, if not
you might think of finding something that he could "pick at" to soothe
him. Maybe you could shop together and let him pick it out. Also, does
your child nap at all during the day?
This may effect the level of sleepyness. My daughter used to get upset at
bedtime and lay there for an hour or more talking and singing. We took
away nap and now she passes out at 8:00 without complaint.
It might be a good idea to make a decision about cosleeping and stick to
it. It is too confusing for little ones for the rules to keep changing.
My husband is out of town often so we have a rule that she can sleep in
my bed when daddy is gone but not when he is home ( we still need "some"
privacy).
I wonder does your child have tantrums other times or just at bed time?
You have lots of responses to work with. good luck!
in the spirit
Kathy
mother of Emily 4 and Ethan 1.5
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:36:46 -0800 "Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall"
<tn-k4of5@...> writes:
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
grabbed my heart strings. What a hard thing to go through and so trying!
i have a coulpe of suggestions and i hope you are not too overwhelmed
already. i have a friend that could not eat anything two hours before
bedtime or she could not settle down to sleep and she would have
nightmares. Along with the soft room i would recommend very pale, light
colors. also does your child have a special "woobie" for bed time, if not
you might think of finding something that he could "pick at" to soothe
him. Maybe you could shop together and let him pick it out. Also, does
your child nap at all during the day?
This may effect the level of sleepyness. My daughter used to get upset at
bedtime and lay there for an hour or more talking and singing. We took
away nap and now she passes out at 8:00 without complaint.
It might be a good idea to make a decision about cosleeping and stick to
it. It is too confusing for little ones for the rules to keep changing.
My husband is out of town often so we have a rule that she can sleep in
my bed when daddy is gone but not when he is home ( we still need "some"
privacy).
I wonder does your child have tantrums other times or just at bed time?
You have lots of responses to work with. good luck!
in the spirit
Kathy
mother of Emily 4 and Ethan 1.5
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:36:46 -0800 "Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall"
<tn-k4of5@...> writes:
>Hey you fellow parents, especially those with difficult and special________________________________________________________________
>needs children...I need help!! I'm sure that most of you know by now
>about my eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is
>hyperactive, hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be
>touched or touch someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional.
>
>My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have
>these pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his
>way, as I don't want him to be the center of the family, or push
>everyone around. However I am not sure how to handle these episodes.
>Sometimes it is an episode of screaming and kicking and out of control
>behavior during the day. More often though, it is at bedtime.
>
>Until recently, bedtime was not too big a deal. He would go to bed
>without much fuss and would play quietly until he dropped off to
>sleep. Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide
>when it's bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries
>hysterically, trashes his room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In
>general he makes a huge amount of noise, makes a big mess and upsets
>everyone in the house. This goes on for up to two hours at a time,
>and we are quickly losing our patience after about a week of this.
>
>I make him clean up the mess in the morning (although he needs a bit
>of help to keep him directed and focused.) We also go in to talk to
>him several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is
>disturbing everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we
>beg and plead, but short of tying him down I don't know what else to
>do. He usually says that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him
>that we are not in bed yet, but if he is still awake when we go to
>bed, he can go with us.
>
>Last night he was up throwing a tantrum until midnight. When he
>finally quieted down, we went to bed. I have a pretty bad cold and am
>feeling pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he
>could not come to bed with us because I was all achey and I did not
>want to be breathing all over him all night. Well, he woke up again
>around 2am and started screaming. He often has nightmares, so we
>brought him to bed with us. He proceeded to wiggle and giggle until
>we got fed up and put him back to bed around 4:30am. He promptly
>began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had to threaten to put him
>in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't quiet down and let
>us and his brother sleep.
>
>I am worried that this might be allergy related, but I cannot isolate
>a probable cause for it. Any ideas??
>
>Nanci K.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>Are you doing sensory integration therapy?No, and where should I begin to find out more information about this subject?
>Seems like the brushing program would do wonders to calm him.
>J.
Nanci K.
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Lynda
It has to do with colors and the type of furniture you put in the room.
When we would go in and do this we would first ask the child what color they
wanted the room and would bring paint chips. If, for example, they said
yellow, we would bring several paint chips of soft, pale creamy yellow. No
bright colors or busy wallpapers. We removed all furniture and replaced
with "soft" furniture, futons, bean bag, etc. We moved dressers into
closets and hung favorite toys in those corner nets. We replaced all
lighting with indirect soft white lights with dimmers. We gave all the kids
stereos (with auto-reverse) in their rooms with a selection of "soft" music
and they were taught to "use" the music to help them "sooth their scratchy
feelers." Stuff like lullabys, classical, etc. They got to help choose
what they wanted and then we would make them a tape. We did covers for the
bean bag and futons (and some kids like those rockers that look like a
recliner) in washed several times double thick flannel and/or organic
natural dyed cottons.
For older kids we found desks with routered edges and round corners in woods
like maple. All this black and chrome and sharp edged furniture is
considered "hard" and rigid has a negative effect.
If you picture in your mind that you are a balloon and suddenly you are
whizzing around because the air is escaping, would the room be safe for you
or would something in the room pop you.
Lynda
When we would go in and do this we would first ask the child what color they
wanted the room and would bring paint chips. If, for example, they said
yellow, we would bring several paint chips of soft, pale creamy yellow. No
bright colors or busy wallpapers. We removed all furniture and replaced
with "soft" furniture, futons, bean bag, etc. We moved dressers into
closets and hung favorite toys in those corner nets. We replaced all
lighting with indirect soft white lights with dimmers. We gave all the kids
stereos (with auto-reverse) in their rooms with a selection of "soft" music
and they were taught to "use" the music to help them "sooth their scratchy
feelers." Stuff like lullabys, classical, etc. They got to help choose
what they wanted and then we would make them a tape. We did covers for the
bean bag and futons (and some kids like those rockers that look like a
recliner) in washed several times double thick flannel and/or organic
natural dyed cottons.
For older kids we found desks with routered edges and round corners in woods
like maple. All this black and chrome and sharp edged furniture is
considered "hard" and rigid has a negative effect.
If you picture in your mind that you are a balloon and suddenly you are
whizzing around because the air is escaping, would the room be safe for you
or would something in the room pop you.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall" <tn-k4of5@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
> >Nanci, have you "decorated" his room so that it is what is called a
"soft"
> >space?
>
> How do I do this? Is this in general terms, or are there guidelines to
this process of creating soft space?
>
> Nanci K.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
> Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
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>
>
Susan (mother to 5 in Fla)
Something that I've found when my ds 4 does this is that I can't get through
to him. It's like he's in another world. I've found though that music can
reach him and it calms him down. I now use a CD or tape to help the kids to
sleep. We also keep tapes in the van so if he has a bad time I have my
safety net on hand. Sometimes I forget U my dd reminds me to "he needs his
tape now".
-----Original Message-----
From: Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall [mailto:tn-k4of5@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
No, he is my eldest.
stays awake. Tom tried to lie down with him last night, but he kept poking
at him and messing with his face. He finally got tired of it and left. So
the screaming started again. I often try to lie down with Thomas, or
comfort him when he is having one of his fits. He usually orders me out.
If he is having a tantrum and we put him in time out to calm down (he needs
the quiet and solitude to regain control) and I go in there to try to help
him get calm because he is out of control, he leans on the door to keep me
out, or hides in the closet and yells at me to "GO AWAY MOMMY!!" He also
hits me, kicks me, and throws things at me, even though I calmly tell him
over and over that it is unacceptable behavior, and give him options on what
he can hit and kick (his bed, his pillow, stuffed toys. I am afraid to put
any pictures on his bare walls because of the kicking and throwing things.
am hesitant to remove anything more from his diet, nor can I determine what
the cause might be.
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
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to him. It's like he's in another world. I've found though that music can
reach him and it calms him down. I now use a CD or tape to help the kids to
sleep. We also keep tapes in the van so if he has a bad time I have my
safety net on hand. Sometimes I forget U my dd reminds me to "he needs his
tape now".
-----Original Message-----
From: Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall [mailto:tn-k4of5@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] HELP!!!
>Have you ever considered letting him share a bed with one of his oldersiblings?
No, he is my eldest.
>You could also lay down and rub his back until he falls asleep.Doesn't work. If you are in the room with him and touching him, he usually
stays awake. Tom tried to lie down with him last night, but he kept poking
at him and messing with his face. He finally got tired of it and left. So
the screaming started again. I often try to lie down with Thomas, or
comfort him when he is having one of his fits. He usually orders me out.
If he is having a tantrum and we put him in time out to calm down (he needs
the quiet and solitude to regain control) and I go in there to try to help
him get calm because he is out of control, he leans on the door to keep me
out, or hides in the closet and yells at me to "GO AWAY MOMMY!!" He also
hits me, kicks me, and throws things at me, even though I calmly tell him
over and over that it is unacceptable behavior, and give him options on what
he can hit and kick (his bed, his pillow, stuffed toys. I am afraid to put
any pictures on his bare walls because of the kicking and throwing things.
>My 9yo also has allergies, has always had nightmares and used to >have somepretty forceful fits, so maybe there is a
>connection?I think there might be, but he is already allergic to so many things that I
am hesitant to remove anything more from his diet, nor can I determine what
the cause might be.
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
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Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
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Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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Steve & Liv
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:36:46 -0800,
"Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall" <tn-k4of5@...>
wrote:
eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is hyperactive,
hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be touched or touch
someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional.
don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around.
However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an
episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day.
More often though, it is at bedtime.
Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide when it's
bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries hysterically, trashes his
room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In general he makes a huge amount
of noise, makes a big mess and upsets everyone in the house. This goes on
for up to two hours at a time, and we are quickly losing our patience after
about a week of this.
several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is disturbing
everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we beg and plead,
but short of tying him down I don't know what else to do. He usually says
that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him that we are not in bed yet,
but if he is still awake when we go to bed, he can go with us.
pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he could not come to
bed with us because I was all achey and I did not want to be breathing all
over him all night. Well, he woke up again around 2am and started
screaming. He often has nightmares, so we brought him to bed with us. He
proceeded to wiggle and giggle until we got fed up and put him back to bed
around 4:30am. He promptly began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had
to threaten to put him in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't
quiet down and let us and his brother sleep.
pots and pretty lighting, but on the TCS website and discussion list.
http://www.TCS.ac/
Liv.
"Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall" <tn-k4of5@...>
wrote:
>children...I need help!! I'm sure that most of you know by now about my
> Hey you fellow parents, especially those with difficult and special needs
eldest boy and all his allergies, etc. Thomas (almost 4) is hyperactive,
hypersensative (sensory - no clothes tags, likes to be touched or touch
someone constantly, etc) and hyper-emotional.
>pretty impressive tantrums. I know I should not give him his way, as I
> My problem is this: He has recently developed a tendancy to have these
don't want him to be the center of the family, or push everyone around.
However I am not sure how to handle these episodes. Sometimes it is an
episode of screaming and kicking and out of control behavior during the day.
More often though, it is at bedtime.
>without much fuss and would play quietly until he dropped off to sleep.
> Until recently, bedtime was not too big a deal. He would go to bed
Lately he has begun to kick and scream and to run and hide when it's
bedtime. Once in his room he screams and cries hysterically, trashes his
room, and lies in bed kicking his wall. In general he makes a huge amount
of noise, makes a big mess and upsets everyone in the house. This goes on
for up to two hours at a time, and we are quickly losing our patience after
about a week of this.
>help to keep him directed and focused.) We also go in to talk to him
> I make him clean up the mess in the morning (although he needs a bit of
several times while he is having his tantrum. We tell him he is disturbing
everyone in the house, we put certain toys in time out, we beg and plead,
but short of tying him down I don't know what else to do. He usually says
that he wants to sleep with us, and we tell him that we are not in bed yet,
but if he is still awake when we go to bed, he can go with us.
>quieted down, we went to bed. I have a pretty bad cold and am feeling
> Last night he was up throwing a tantrum until midnight. When he finally
pretty lousy. Tom told Thomas that Mommy was sick and he could not come to
bed with us because I was all achey and I did not want to be breathing all
over him all night. Well, he woke up again around 2am and started
screaming. He often has nightmares, so we brought him to bed with us. He
proceeded to wiggle and giggle until we got fed up and put him back to bed
around 4:30am. He promptly began kicking his door, and the wall. Tom had
to threaten to put him in time out all day tomorrow (today) if he didn't
quiet down and let us and his brother sleep.
>probable cause for it. Any ideas??
> I am worried that this might be allergy related, but I cannot isolate a
>Personally, I think the answer to your problems is not to be found in paint
> Nanci K.
pots and pretty lighting, but on the TCS website and discussion list.
http://www.TCS.ac/
Liv.
Sonia Ulan
Hi Nanci;
First, I know I'm a little slow on the draw here but I just want to say
that my heart really goes out to you and your family. It must be
terribly difficult to deal with this situation and maintain your
sanity!! And your son's!
One thought I'm having that might explain some of the behaviorial
changes you're seeing could be connected to vaccinations. There are
researchers who have connected changes in neurology to innoculations.
Children/adults can even have delayed responses. It is well-documented
that infants' breathing patterns change in response to vaccinations, so
why wouldn't an older child have difficulty too? The whole system is
affected after innoculation with immune deficiencies (illness, allergies
etc.), neurological changes and even developmental delays to name a
few. Some homeopaths and chiropractors can help reverse some of the
damage and help the body and nervous system get back on track after
vaccinations. Do some research and/or look up Dr. Vera Scheibner who is
an internationally-reknown physician/research scientist who has reams of
material, scientific data and information about the negative effects
from vaccinations. She lives in Australia now but is quite approachable
by fax: (02) 4787 8988 0r by phone: (02) 4787 8203
Good luck!
Sonia in Canada
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall wrote:
First, I know I'm a little slow on the draw here but I just want to say
that my heart really goes out to you and your family. It must be
terribly difficult to deal with this situation and maintain your
sanity!! And your son's!
One thought I'm having that might explain some of the behaviorial
changes you're seeing could be connected to vaccinations. There are
researchers who have connected changes in neurology to innoculations.
Children/adults can even have delayed responses. It is well-documented
that infants' breathing patterns change in response to vaccinations, so
why wouldn't an older child have difficulty too? The whole system is
affected after innoculation with immune deficiencies (illness, allergies
etc.), neurological changes and even developmental delays to name a
few. Some homeopaths and chiropractors can help reverse some of the
damage and help the body and nervous system get back on track after
vaccinations. Do some research and/or look up Dr. Vera Scheibner who is
an internationally-reknown physician/research scientist who has reams of
material, scientific data and information about the negative effects
from vaccinations. She lives in Australia now but is quite approachable
by fax: (02) 4787 8988 0r by phone: (02) 4787 8203
Good luck!
Sonia in Canada
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall wrote:
>
> >Have you ever considered letting him share a bed with one of his older siblings?
>
> No, he is my eldest.
>
> >You could also lay down and rub his back until he falls asleep.
>
> Doesn't work. If you are in the room with him and touching him, he usually stays awake. Tom tried to lie down with him last night, but he kept poking at him and messing with his face. He finally got tired of it and left. So the screaming started again. I often try to lie down with Thomas, or comfort him when he is having one of his fits. He usually orders me out. If he is having a tantrum and we put him in time out to calm down (he needs the quiet and solitude to regain control) and I go in there to try to help him get calm because he is out of control, he leans on the door to keep me out, or hides in the closet and yells at me to "GO AWAY MOMMY!!" He also hits me, kicks me, and throws things at me, even though I calmly tell him over and over that it is unacceptable behavior, and give him options on what he can hit and kick (his bed, his pillow, stuffed toys. I am afraid to put any pictures on his bare walls because of the kicking and throwing things.
>
> >My 9yo also has allergies, has always had nightmares and used to >have some pretty forceful fits, so maybe there is a
> >connection?
>
> I think there might be, but he is already allergic to so many things that I am hesitant to remove anything more from his diet, nor can I determine what the cause might be.
>
> Nanci K.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
> Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
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[email protected]
Hello, Nanci! I don't personally know you or your son, so this is
simply an idea that you might want to look into further. Some people
with difficulty with sugar and/or insulin levels can react in rather
impulsive ways such as what you describe. If you have a holistic or
holistic-friendly physician, check into having a GTT (glucose
tolerance test) done on your son. If the results show that he has
reactive hypoglycemia, you can find much useful info via the net
about what you need to do to help control the "swings". There are
also many good books on the subject. If you like, you can contact me
directly for some resource titles and net sites.
Best Wishes,
Jen
reklawj@...
simply an idea that you might want to look into further. Some people
with difficulty with sugar and/or insulin levels can react in rather
impulsive ways such as what you describe. If you have a holistic or
holistic-friendly physician, check into having a GTT (glucose
tolerance test) done on your son. If the results show that he has
reactive hypoglycemia, you can find much useful info via the net
about what you need to do to help control the "swings". There are
also many good books on the subject. If you like, you can contact me
directly for some resource titles and net sites.
Best Wishes,
Jen
reklawj@...
Dalene Mactier
Hi Nanci
I'm brand new to this group, but just had to reply to your email.
Have you read anything about Spirited Children?? He sounds like a
typical spirited child to me.
This is something I recently discovered and it has helped me to
understand my child.
I found a wonderful forum where there are lots of very competent
mothers of spirited children.
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/33582
This is all still very new to me, but it helped me to understand my
child is coming from.
One of the important things is that I learned that they can really
not help themselves. He's not trying to annoy you with his tantrums.
I found tons of useful information at this site
http://www.nurturingourfamilies.com/spirited/
Many people recommended reading Raising your Spirited Child by Mary
Sheedy Kurcinka.
I haven't yet, since I'm living in South Africa and have to order it.
Here are a few links on Temeperament Based Parenting too
http://www.temperament.com/parenting.html
http://www.temperamentproject.bc.ca/html/facts.html
http://www.keirsey.com/parent.html
http://www.nurturebynature.com/quiz/quiz.html
Lots of luck and plenty of patience
Dalene
I'm brand new to this group, but just had to reply to your email.
Have you read anything about Spirited Children?? He sounds like a
typical spirited child to me.
This is something I recently discovered and it has helped me to
understand my child.
I found a wonderful forum where there are lots of very competent
mothers of spirited children.
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/33582
This is all still very new to me, but it helped me to understand my
child is coming from.
One of the important things is that I learned that they can really
not help themselves. He's not trying to annoy you with his tantrums.
I found tons of useful information at this site
http://www.nurturingourfamilies.com/spirited/
Many people recommended reading Raising your Spirited Child by Mary
Sheedy Kurcinka.
I haven't yet, since I'm living in South Africa and have to order it.
Here are a few links on Temeperament Based Parenting too
http://www.temperament.com/parenting.html
http://www.temperamentproject.bc.ca/html/facts.html
http://www.keirsey.com/parent.html
http://www.nurturebynature.com/quiz/quiz.html
Lots of luck and plenty of patience
Dalene