John O. Andersen

Summary:

Children may not discover their interests until parents serve them up a
platterful of possibilities.



The Parent's Essential Active Role in Unschooling
John O. Andersen


I strongly believe in unschooling; the "curriculum" of freely following
one's interests.

Yet, when it comes to unschooling children, parental involvement is a must.
This is because children often won't know they have an interest in something
until after their parents give them a glimpse of the many fascinating ideas
and pursuits the world offers.

Wise unschooling parents expose their children to the community, to complex
issues, to a broad spectrum of people, to the greatest minds, and so forth.
There is a variety of ways they might do this. Here are few concrete
examples:

Take your children to an art museum. Interpret a painting for them. Then
ask for their interpretations of that one or another painting. Go home and
create your own oil paintings. Attend public meetings. Arrange for your
children to meet the mayor, or a senator, or congressman. Take your
children to a street demonstration. Discuss why people demonstrate. Take
them to the zoo. Sit on a bench for awhile and watch a particular animal.
Talk about what you see. Let your children tell you what they see.
Volunteer at a library, or other community organization. Show your children
how rewarding it can be to give service to others. Take walks together
through nature preserves. Intentionally slow down and truly notice the
plants, and wildlife. Both of you record your impressions in your journals
when you get home. Seek out interesting and creative people in your
community such as inventors, authors, scientists, and poets. Arrange to
visit with these people in their homes, attend their lectures, write letters
to them, or perhaps persuade them to be your child's mentor. Read books
together everyday. Talk about ideas and philosophies while eating dinner.
Be a passionate scholar yourself. Visit historical sites. View films
together about historic events. Write letters to grandparents and other
people who are much older. Help your children establish strong connections
with the past. Take your children camping. Go on guided tours whenever you
can. Write about what you learn. Arrange for penpals for your children;
perhaps same-aged children from other countries and cultures. Travel often
locally and, if possible, internationally. When appropriate, make a point
to talk with people on the street and in the shops. Ask them questions and
listen carefully. Be endlessly curious. Taste the joy of having many
diverse interests. Be actors in a local play. Join a gymnastics club.
Take fencing lessons as a family. Learn to play a musical instrument.

The list goes on and on and on. Unschooling doesn't mean doing all of that
at once. Rather, it has to do with being active learners, with creating
your own intellectual stimulation, with sincerely believing you can actually
learn something without tests, tuition payments, classroom time, or grades.

And it is anything but passive and directionless. On the contrary, it is
arguably one of the most demanding of all learning methods and potentially,
the most stimulating as well. For it to succeed, parents need to be their
children's facilitators, constantly seeking ways to harness the endless
learning resources of their local community, and ultimately the world around
them. It's not a job for the fainthearted or those who are happier
following instructions from degreed and certified experts.

Essentially, it's about lighting a fire within yourself and letting it burn
brightly enough that your children naturally desire to become engulfed as
well.

John Andersen
Uncoventional Ideas at http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen
Themestream Articles
http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_by_tag.gsp?auth_id=34436
Read about the Andersen family travels:
http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/travel.html

****NOTE****
You can find a link to the above essay on my website at:

http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/learning.html

Laura M

John,

This was simply wonderful and so inspirational. Thank you. It seemed to be
just what I needed today. We've just had a really rough week with my 12 yo
son. This is his first year homeschooling. We've been having a hard time
pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. He is bascially not
interested in anything. He'd rather sit around doing workbook pages and
playing his gameboy when he is done. (I'd like to throw the gameboy out of
the window!!!) I've tried many of your ideas in the past, but it is so nice
to see someone recommending them in print again. We do the library, the
musueams, parks, volunteer time at a local living history farm, surf the net
together for ideas, read, etc. Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head
into a wall of his laziness. I can't think of a better word. Does anyone
else have any suggestions.

Laura
Mom to Becca (4) and Michael (12)


>From: "John O. Andersen" <andersen@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: "Undisclosed-Recipient" <>
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in
>Unschooling
>Date: 30 Oct 2000 06:26:00 -0800
>
>Summary:
>
>Children may not discover their interests until parents serve them up a
>platterful of possibilities.
>
>
>
>The Parent's Essential Active Role in Unschooling
>John O. Andersen
>
>
>I strongly believe in unschooling; the "curriculum" of freely following
>one's interests.
>
>Yet, when it comes to unschooling children, parental involvement is a
>must.
>This is because children often won't know they have an interest in
>something
>until after their parents give them a glimpse of the many fascinating ideas
>and pursuits the world offers.
>
>Wise unschooling parents expose their children to the community, to complex
>issues, to a broad spectrum of people, to the greatest minds, and so forth.
>There is a variety of ways they might do this. Here are few concrete
>examples:
>
>Take your children to an art museum. Interpret a painting for them. Then
>ask for their interpretations of that one or another painting. Go home and
>create your own oil paintings. Attend public meetings. Arrange for your
>children to meet the mayor, or a senator, or congressman. Take your
>children to a street demonstration. Discuss why people demonstrate. Take
>them to the zoo. Sit on a bench for awhile and watch a particular animal.
>Talk about what you see. Let your children tell you what they see.
>Volunteer at a library, or other community organization. Show your
>children
>how rewarding it can be to give service to others. Take walks together
>through nature preserves. Intentionally slow down and truly notice the
>plants, and wildlife. Both of you record your impressions in your journals
>when you get home. Seek out interesting and creative people in your
>community such as inventors, authors, scientists, and poets. Arrange to
>visit with these people in their homes, attend their lectures, write
>letters
>to them, or perhaps persuade them to be your child's mentor. Read books
>together everyday. Talk about ideas and philosophies while eating dinner.
>Be a passionate scholar yourself. Visit historical sites. View films
>together about historic events. Write letters to grandparents and other
>people who are much older. Help your children establish strong connections
>with the past. Take your children camping. Go on guided tours whenever
>you
>can. Write about what you learn. Arrange for penpals for your children;
>perhaps same-aged children from other countries and cultures. Travel often
>locally and, if possible, internationally. When appropriate, make a point
>to talk with people on the street and in the shops. Ask them questions and
>listen carefully. Be endlessly curious. Taste the joy of having many
>diverse interests. Be actors in a local play. Join a gymnastics club.
>Take fencing lessons as a family. Learn to play a musical instrument.
>
>The list goes on and on and on. Unschooling doesn't mean doing all of that
>at once. Rather, it has to do with being active learners, with creating
>your own intellectual stimulation, with sincerely believing you can
>actually
>learn something without tests, tuition payments, classroom time, or grades.
>
>And it is anything but passive and directionless. On the contrary, it is
>arguably one of the most demanding of all learning methods and potentially,
>the most stimulating as well. For it to succeed, parents need to be their
>children's facilitators, constantly seeking ways to harness the endless
>learning resources of their local community, and ultimately the world
>around
>them. It's not a job for the fainthearted or those who are happier
>following instructions from degreed and certified experts.
>
>Essentially, it's about lighting a fire within yourself and letting it burn
>brightly enough that your children naturally desire to become engulfed as
>well.
>
>John Andersen
>Uncoventional Ideas at http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen
>Themestream Articles
>http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_by_tag.gsp?auth_id=34436
>Read about the Andersen family travels:
>http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/travel.html
>
>****NOTE****
>You can find a link to the above essay on my website at:
>
>http://www.spiritone.com/~andersen/learning.html
>

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Raley Family

> son. This is his first year homeschooling. We've been having a hard time
> pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. He is bascially not
> interested in anything. He'd rather sit around doing workbook pages and
> playing his gameboy when he is done. (I'd like to throw the gameboy out of
> the window!!!

Laura, repeat after me: "I am the parent. I am the parent." (ha)
Seriously, I am new to this list, and not sure of the tone yet. But I will
answer your post as an "older and wiser" mother of 24 years and homeschooler
of 11 years, whose been there, done that, and made all the mistakes.
When we started to homeschool, I took a 6th grade girl out of a Christian
school. The first year was spent teaching her to obey, and teaching her
diligence, something we had lost during those school years. First I want to
suggest, if you don't have the courage to throw that gameboy out, at least
restrict his use of it to an hour or two a day, after he has done something
worthwhile with his time. Now, you need to give him something
to take it's place. When we threw out the TV and video games, I found out
my children had all kinds of interests. My oldest son (age 15) out to be
an
incredible artist. Our church is going to use his work on their calender
this year. My second son (age 13) has learned an interest in knife making.
Tell him you will buy him something, or take him somewhere to take up the
gameboy time. It just has to be worthwhile. Then don't allow anything else
like that in your home. Please, don't be afraid to lead him. You don't
have all those years of experience for nothing!! God gave you to him and
him to you, for you to teach and train him in the way he should go. Don't
lose these valueable years, because when they are gone, they are gone. And
believe me, they pass a lot faster than you think. My first two are grown
and have their own families now.
Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15

LisaKK

John,
I have to quibble a bit with your thoughts here...

> This is because children often won't know they have an interest in
something
> until after their parents give them a glimpse of the many fascinating
ideas
> and pursuits the world offers.>>

While this is true, that parents will affect what their children come in
contact with, it seems as if you've bought the line that *only* parents will
be giving their children glimpses of the world. That's just not so. My
children bring as many wonderful things and people into our lives as I do.
Age and personality certainly factor in here, but to say they won't know
unless parents give them "glimpses' is not the whole truth.

> Wise unschooling parents expose their children to the community, to
complex
> issues, to a broad spectrum of people, to the greatest minds, and so
forth.
> There is a variety of ways they might do this. Here are few concrete
> examples:
>

Yes, again, this is true.....but it's a small part of our truth. For us
what is even more true (if there can be such a thing) is that my *reaction*
to the people, ideas and projects they come up with themselves is what's
important. I once allowed my child to spend the night with a neighbor
child, where she was exposed to a drunken father/husband. We spent many a
hour discussing that complex issue.

Life itself brings all kinds of things right to our door, it's in not
turning away that we, as parents, have our opprotunity.

LisaKK

Sarah Carothers

Well, hm.......... I've been following this thread and although I've been lurking only a short while, I've been  homeschooling two daughters a long time. My experience has been quite different from some of those mentioned and I feel compelled to expose a different perspective.
We spent six months de-schooling our oldest daughter, Katie who was only in public school for a few short months.  We did *not* have to teach her to obey or eliminate television or Nintendo. The 'obeying' part, imo,  naturally occurred because she was always respected and an intregal part in the decision making process of our family. Even at the tender age of 5, she had a voice. 
Television or game machines (including the computer) were never treated as a "hands off" item. Yes, both dd's have done their share of zoning out at the TV but they THEN decide enough is enough and they choose to turn it off and find many other activities to do.  Yes, we are always exposing them to new experiences as was mentioned in the Anderson post and that has been a big part in broadening their horizons. But TV has also been an important part.
The most recent example occurred during this past year. Katie, now 14.5, likes to stay up late watching TV  or studying and she sleeps late in the a.m.  She's on her own body clock schedule and after attempts of trying to change it, I decided it was something not worth changing.  Anyway, on channel 48 (here in the east), Katie watched a show called Trauma in the E.R.  I caught a glimpse of it once and with all the blood and guts, I quickly exited the room for it was *not* my cup of tea. Frankly, I was surprised that Katie was even watching it because she had *never* before had the stomach to watch even a splinter being removed. 
As months passed, Katie came to me and wanted to know what she needed to study to become a doctor. I quickly researched all I could get my hands on about becoming a doctor and reported back that a well-rounded education was important and it wouldn't hurt to have some science courses covered ahead of time as well as Latin. (there were others subjects but I won't go into that here).  She asked that I take her to Borders, which I did, and she picked out Anatomy & Physiology (http://occ.awlonline.com/bookbind/pubbooks/marieb-essentials/index.html>. She has been reading/teaching herself anatomy using a book that a lot of curriculum coordinators would've declared too hard for her age.  Now, this wasn't an inexpensive book and I realized that  if we were going down the "doctor" road, it would be prudent to make *sure* she enjoyed that field based on more than a TV show. Luckily, I have a acquaintance friend who is an anesthesiologist and she was willing to allow Katie to shadow her around on her daily routine.
The day arrived and Katie was supposed to be in front of the O.R at 6:30 (yeah, sure... I'm thinking to myself. This, in itself, is a true test!).  I was surprised when Katie woke up at 4:45 (willingly ..... and *cheerfully*!) and was at the O.R. by 6:15. She was met by our friend, dressed in scrubs and with second set in hand for Katie to wear.  This is it, I'm thinking to myself.  If the dress code doesn't get to her, we are making progress. (anyone with a teenage daughter will probably understand what I mean by that<g>).
I left the hospital making sure the cell phone was turned on because I was worried that someone would call and say, "Katie fainted when she saw blood. Come get her".
Time drug by that morning for me and I was eager to pick her up at the appointed noon time.  I didn't know what to expect........
......and then I saw Katie come around the corner of the O.R. and her gait said it all. My eyes moved up to her face and Katie was all smiles and there was this glow that I can't begin to describe. We  did our "thank you's" to everyone and then left. Before we were out of the hospital, Katie declared,  "now THAT's what I want to be... a DOCTOR. Actually, I want to be a neurosurgeon or an Emergency Room Doctor."
Katie's morning had consisted of watching (from four feet away) a tumor removal from a woman's side. After that procedure, they went to peek in on some brain surgery where Doctor invited Katie to pull up a step stool so she could get a better view. Then, the Doctor proceeded to tell her what the layers of body parts were, what that black hole in this person's brain was ( cancerous area removed from a previous surgery, which had returned).  Katie said he used words the size of a suburban and she hadn't heard of most of them.  But, since that time, she's come across them in her anatomy book and remembers them.  Her dedication to her chosen goal is phenomenal and I can honestly say it comes from within her own soul. As her parents, her father and I had little to do with it, other than providing the transportation and the money for the books.  Had our situation been different and I were directing her toward her future goals, I can assure you, I would not have chosen such a difficult path and the natural desire to learn could've been crushed.
So, in closing, I think it's of the utmost importance that we let our children find their own paths and yes, even tv, computer games and videos can lead to a successful ending.  Trust that your children will stop when they've had enough (of the 'bad' stuff, such as tv) and will move on to bigger and better things.
Sarah Carothers
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in Unschooling

> son.  This is his first year homeschooling.  We've been having a hard time
> pinpointing his interests.  It is like pulling teeth.  He is bascially not
> interested in anything.  He'd rather sit around doing workbook pages and
> playing his gameboy when he is done. (I'd like to throw the gameboy out of
> the window!!!

Laura, repeat after me:  "I am the parent.  I am the parent." (ha)
Seriously, I am new to this list, and not sure of the tone yet.  But I will
answer your post as an "older and wiser" mother of 24 years and homeschooler
of 11 years, whose been there, done that, and made all the mistakes.
When we started to homeschool, I took a 6th grade girl out of a Christian
school.  The first year was spent teaching her to obey, and teaching her
diligence, something we had lost during those school years.  First I want to
suggest, if you don't have the courage to throw that gameboy out, at least
restrict his use of it to an hour or two a day, after he has done something
worthwhile with his time.  Now, you need to give him something
to take it's place.  When we threw out the TV and video games, I found out
my children had all kinds of interests.   My oldest son (age 15) out to be
an
incredible artist.  Our church is going to use his work on their calender
this year.  My second son (age 13) has learned an interest in knife making.
Tell him you will buy him something, or take him somewhere to take up the
gameboy time.  It just has to be worthwhile.  Then don't allow anything else
like that in your home.  Please, don't be afraid to lead him.  You don't
have all those years of experience for nothing!!  God gave you to him and
him to you, for you to teach and train him in the way he should go.  Don't
lose these valueable years, because when they are gone, they are gone.  And
believe me, they pass a lot faster than you think.  My first two are grown
and have their own families now.
Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.    Joshua 24:15








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[email protected]

In a message dated 00-10-30 11:48:34 EST, raley@... writes:

<< The first year was spent teaching her to obey, and teaching her
diligence, something we had lost during those school years. First I want to
suggest, if you don't have the courage to throw that gameboy out, at least
restrict his use of it to an hour or two a day, after he has done something
worthwhile with his time. Now, you need to give him something
to take it's place. >>

I think you should FIRST give him something more interesting than the Gameboy
to do. Restriction will only increase the value of the Gameboy and could
erode the joy of being home, and even erode the faith the child has in the
parent.

Children will "obey" when parents are making sense and being compassionate.

I agree with this writer:
<<So, in closing, I think it's of the utmost importance that we let our
children find their own paths and yes, even tv, computer games and videos
can lead to a successful ending. Trust that your children will stop when
they've had enough (of the 'bad' stuff, such as tv) and will move on to
bigger and better things.>>

Belitting a child's interested (in Game Boy or anything else) amounts to
belittling the child. Given a rich and stimulating environment, they *will*
gravitate toward things they're interested in. Some families just have the
kids hanging out at the house day after day while the parents do whatever
they would do if the kids weren't even home. We do that sometimes too,
certainly, but not EVERY day.


<< We've been having a hard time
pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. >>

You don't NEED to pinpoint interests. Let him be interested in everything,
even if it's just very short bursts of interest. Someday he might fall in
love with some field of interest, or he might never, but keep the swirl of
information rich instead of watery and monotonous.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/00 10:01:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lauramatec@... writes:

<< Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head
into a wall of his laziness. I can't think of a better word. Does anyone
else have any suggestions. >>

Laura,

This sounds a lot like my 10.5yo stepson. He doesn't homeschool with us. He
is a public school student and he is accustomed to having his entire day
planned for him. He is used to people telling him what to learn and how to
learn it. When he has free time he gravitates to the television and video
games. While I have seen a lot of good programming, I have seen that he does
*not* get tired of television and turn it off. He will watch day in and day
out, all day if no one tells him to turn it off. Sounds like your son still
has that institutional mentality and needs a chance to deschool some more.

One thing that helped me discover some of Trenton's interests was to watch TV
with him. I found that he almost always watched certain kinds of shows. Wild
animals, extreme sports, the world's strangest people - shows about those
things appealed to him. I've tried to get him books about those subjects and
send him websites that deal with those things. I also take him to lectures
about local wildlife and on hikes to try to spot some of the creatures he
sees on tv. I do restrict the tv and videos because he is really not an
independent enough thinker right now to make that decision for himself.
Besides, the constant babbling from the set really irritates me.

I'd suggest continuing to be patient and doing what you think is best in
terms of the electronics. You know your son best. Just don't expect him to
change from a school mentality to an unschooling mentality overnight. Isn't
the rule of thumb for deschooling something like a month for every year
they've spent in school? (That doesn't include summer vacation.) Good luck!



candice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hold fast to dreams
For if dreams die
Life is a broken-winged bird
That cannot fly.
-Langston Hughes

Raley Family

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your
father and mother- which is the first commandment WITH A PROMISE-that it may
go well with you and that you may ENJOY LONG LIFE ON THE EARTH". Ephesians
6:1-3

I sure want my children to enjoy long life on the earth!! In my house,
obeying isn't an option, based on whether they are interested in what I'm
telling them or not.

"Create in me a pure heart, Oh God." Psalm 51:10 "I will set before my
eyes no vile thing." Psam 101:3 It isn't just my job to provide
interesting things for my children to do and learn from, but also to protect
them from evil influences. I would never have allowed my child to spend the
night in the house with a drunkard.

This list is probably not for me. It is hard for me to relate in a way that
isn't based on scripture, although I am ready to listen to your views for a
while.
Does anyone out there see things from a scriptural point of view? Explain
it to me.

Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in
Unschooling


> In a message dated 00-10-30 11:48:34 EST, raley@... writes:
>
> << The first year was spent teaching her to obey, and teaching her
> diligence, something we had lost during those school years. First I want
to
> suggest, if you don't have the courage to throw that gameboy out, at
least
> restrict his use of it to an hour or two a day, after he has done
something
> worthwhile with his time. Now, you need to give him something
> to take it's place. >>
>
> I think you should FIRST give him something more interesting than the
Gameboy
> to do. Restriction will only increase the value of the Gameboy and could
> erode the joy of being home, and even erode the faith the child has in the
> parent.
>
> Children will "obey" when parents are making sense and being
compassionate.
>
> I agree with this writer:
> <<So, in closing, I think it's of the utmost importance that we let our
> children find their own paths and yes, even tv, computer games and videos
> can lead to a successful ending. Trust that your children will stop when
> they've had enough (of the 'bad' stuff, such as tv) and will move on to
> bigger and better things.>>
>
> Belitting a child's interested (in Game Boy or anything else) amounts to
> belittling the child. Given a rich and stimulating environment, they
*will*
> gravitate toward things they're interested in. Some families just have
the
> kids hanging out at the house day after day while the parents do whatever
> they would do if the kids weren't even home. We do that sometimes too,
> certainly, but not EVERY day.
>
>
> << We've been having a hard time
> pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. >>
>
> You don't NEED to pinpoint interests. Let him be interested in
everything,
> even if it's just very short bursts of interest. Someday he might fall in
> love with some field of interest, or he might never, but keep the swirl of
> information rich instead of watery and monotonous.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

Valerie

This list is probably not for me. It is hard for me to relate in a way that
isn't based on scripture, although I am ready to listen to your views for a
while.
Does anyone out there see things from a scriptural point of view? Explain
it to me.

Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15

Carla, try CCU here at egroups. (Christ-Centered-Unschooling)

--valerie

Valerie

Sarah, 
 
Thank you for that inspiring and comforting post. All my eldest daughter (11) is interested in at the moment is reading some awful adolescent sci-fi books and "doing" Japanese animi (sp?) on the computer. I practically had to physically drag her off so I could read my email....this is after 2 hours straight, in her pj's, still hasn't had breakfast and it's nearly lunchtime....This is her existence, and I can't blame it on public school. She's never been to school. 
 
Maybe by the time she's your daughter's age, she'll have interests I can deal with. (please humor me)
 
--valerie

Valerie

Sarah, 
 
Thank you for that inspiring and comforting post. All my eldest daughter (11) is interested in at the moment is reading some awful adolescent sci-fi books and "doing" Japanese animi (sp?) on the computer. I practically had to physically drag her off so I could read my email....this is after 2 hours straight, in her pj's, still hasn't had breakfast and it's nearly lunchtime....This is her existence, and I can't blame it on public school. She's never been to school. 
 
Maybe by the time she's your daughter's age, she'll have interests I can deal with. (please humor me)
 
--valerie

Raley Family

Thanks Valarie, I will look that up. I'm glad to know your out there!!!!
Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valerie" <valeries@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in
Unschooling


> This list is probably not for me. It is hard for me to relate in a way
that
> isn't based on scripture, although I am ready to listen to your views for
a
> while.
> Does anyone out there see things from a scriptural point of view? Explain
> it to me.
>
> Carla Raley
> Jacksboro, Texas
> As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
>
> Carla, try CCU here at egroups. (Christ-Centered-Unschooling)
>
> --valerie
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

Sarah Carothers

No need to humor you, Valerie ;-). It will happen, I'm sure of it. 
May I suggest a GREAT computer game for your dd? It fills that sci-fi desire yet it challenges her to do a *lot* of thinking, mapping out strategies, taking notes and <g> reading. It's "Myst" and  really gets them involved. I can't recall how hold Katie was when she began the game... I think she was about 11 ???. Anyway, we had to seek out some hint/help guides in the beginning but after a few peeks, she was hooked. 
And who knows, Valerie.... maybe your dd who is a sci-fi lover like mine, will one day decide she wants to operate on people!<Big eyes and a smile>
Sarah
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in Unschooling

Sarah, 
 
Thank you for that inspiring and comforting post. All my eldest daughter (11) is interested in at the moment is reading some awful adolescent sci-fi books and "doing" Japanese animi (sp?) on the computer. I practically had to physically drag her off so I could read my email....this is after 2 hours straight, in her pj's, still hasn't had breakfast and it's nearly lunchtime....This is her existence, and I can't blame it on public school. She's never been to school. 
 
Maybe by the time she's your daughter's age, she'll have interests I can deal with. (please humor me)
 
--valerie


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In a message dated 10/30/00 11:18:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
raley@... writes:

<< This list is probably not for me. It is hard for me to relate in a way
that
isn't based on scripture, although I am ready to listen to your views for a
while.
Does anyone out there see things from a scriptural point of view? Explain
it to me. >>

Hi Carla,

I am an unschooling Christian. I generally don't discuss my religious beliefs
on this list, except in the most generic way. There are many people of
different religious backgrounds on this list and I know religion can be such
a hot button issue for many.

I am on another list of Christian unschoolers. Perhaps it may be more your
cup of tea. It's called UnschoolingJesusFreaks and you can subscribe at
egroups.com. Things are generally discussed from a biblical point of view. I
have found lots of value in both lists.

candice

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/00 11:52:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
valeries@... writes:

<< Maybe by the time she's your daughter's age, she'll have interests I can
deal with. (please humor me) >>

Hey, no one said they would have interests that are appealing to us.

candice

Valerie

<< Maybe by the time she's your daughter's age, she'll have interests I can
deal with. (please humor me) >>

Hey, no one said they would have interests that are appealing to us.

candice

No joke. I don't want little clones of me <shudder> but this eldest child of
mine really puts me to the test, every day.

Ironically, if she did as Sarah's daughter and showed interest in surgery,
I'd have a real problem with it. Only because I'm the type of wimp who
faints at the sight of needles, much less seeing the insides of other
people.

My little artist is upstairs right now, no doubt coloring or reading while
her sisters are eating lunch. (This will be her breakfast, if she ever comes
downstairs....)

--valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/2000 7:18:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
raley@... writes:

<<
This list is probably not for me. It is hard for me to relate in a way that
isn't based on scripture, although I am ready to listen to your views for a
while.
Does anyone out there see things from a scriptural point of view? Explain
it to me.

Carla Raley
Jacksboro, Texas
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15 >>


I haven't noticed that this list was religious one way or the other or
anti-religious. Just doesn't seem to be the focus, to me. Maybe you'll pick
up something worthwhile. But if it's a heavily religious discussion list
you're looking for, I guess this isn't it. Hope we can be helpful tho.

Nance

DiamondAir

From: "Laura M" <lauramatec@...>
>We've just had a really rough week with my 12 yo
>son. This is his first year homeschooling. We've been having a hard time
>pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. He is bascially not
>interested in anything. He'd rather sit around doing workbook pages and
>playing his gameboy when he is done. (I'd like to throw the gameboy out of
>the window!!!) I've tried many of your ideas in the past, but it is so
nice
>to see someone recommending them in print again. We do the library, the
>musueams, parks, volunteer time at a local living history farm, surf the
net
>together for ideas, read, etc. Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head
>into a wall of his laziness. I can't think of a better word. Does anyone
>else have any suggestions.

Laura, have you read Grace Llewellyn's books ("The Teenage Liberation
Handbook", and "Real Lives" are two I'm thinking of right now). She talks
quite a bit in her books about kids who come out of school needing to take
sort of a mental vacation (I can't remember the term she uses). Basically,
they just need to do nothing for awhile, find their momentum, their own
interests, "de-school" their own thought processes. At first coming out of a
school, they might have lost their initiative, their own drive to learn
something just because they find it fascinating. They need time and space to
find this. That's her theory anyways, and it is supported by many examples
of unschooled teenagers in her books who have left school at various
different stages. If you haven't read these books, you will probably find
them really exciting and inspirational in their own right, especially
because they are mostly geared towards kids who are teenagers or who (like
your son) are on the verge of that age range.
I've done a lot of work with this age group - 12 year olds - as a youth
group leader and a coach. I've had several homeschooled kids among my
groups, and they just have so much more initiative than their schooled
peers. I can see how it might take a child awhile out of school before they
pick up on that ability to create their own life lessons. At first they seem
to be waiting around for someone to tell them what to do.
Best of luck!!


Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) who comments about our garden: "I think a
bulldozer would solve this weed problem"
and Asa (10/5/99) who loves to dance
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

Jenn Sanchez

--- DiamondAir <diamondair@...> wrote:
> From: "Laura M" <lauramatec@...>
> >We've just had a really rough week with my 12 yo
> >son. This is his first year homeschooling. We've
> been having a hard time
> >pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling
> teeth. He is bascially not
> >interested in anything. He'd rather sit around
> doing workbook pages and
> >playing his gameboy when he is done. (I'd like to
> throw the gameboy out of
> >the window!!!) I've tried many of your ideas in
> the past, but it is so
> nice
> >to see someone recommending them in print again.
> We do the library, the
> >musueams, parks, volunteer time at a local living
> history farm, surf the
> net
> >together for ideas, read, etc. Sometimes I feel
> like I am banging my head
> >into a wall of his laziness. I can't think of a
> better word. Does anyone
> >else have any suggestions.
>
> Laura, have you read Grace Llewellyn's books ("The
> Teenage Liberation
> Handbook", and "Real Lives" are two I'm thinking of
> right now). She talks
> quite a bit in her books about kids who come out of
> school needing to take
> sort of a mental vacation (I can't remember the term
> she uses). Basically,
> they just need to do nothing for awhile, find their
> momentum, their own
> interests, "de-school" their own thought processes.
> At first coming out of a
> school, they might have lost their initiative, their
> own drive to learn
> something just because they find it fascinating.
> They need time and space to
> find this. That's her theory anyways, and it is
> supported by many examples
> of unschooled teenagers in her books who have left
> school at various
> different stages. If you haven't read these books,
> you will probably find
> them really exciting and inspirational in their own
> right, especially
> because they are mostly geared towards kids who are
> teenagers or who (like
> your son) are on the verge of that age range.
> I've done a lot of work with this age group - 12
> year olds - as a youth
> group leader and a coach. I've had several
> homeschooled kids among my
> groups, and they just have so much more initiative
> than their schooled
> peers. I can see how it might take a child awhile
> out of school before they
> pick up on that ability to create their own life
> lessons. At first they seem
> to be waiting around for someone to tell them what
> to do.
> Best of luck!!
>
>
> Blue Skies!
> -Robin-
> Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) who comments about our
> garden: "I think a
> bulldozer would solve this weed problem"
> and Asa (10/5/99) who loves to dance
> http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying
> Clevenger Family

Laura-
I feel the exact same as you do! My son is twelve and
all he wants to do is skateboard and hang out with his
friends. He is driving me nuts!! I need help too! I
will take any advice. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
jena
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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John O. Andersen

Lisa,

> John,
> I have to quibble a bit with your thoughts here...
>
> > This is because children often won't know they have an interest in
> something
> > until after their parents give them a glimpse of the many fascinating
> ideas
> > and pursuits the world offers.>>
>
> While this is true, that parents will affect what their children come in
> contact with, it seems as if you've bought the line that *only* parents
will
> be giving their children glimpses of the world.

No, I wrote "...children OFTEN won't know they have an interest in something
until after their parents give them a glimpse.."

I intentionally used the word "OFTEN" to indicate that parents aren't the
only influences.

> Life itself brings all kinds of things right to our door, it's in not
> turning away that we, as parents, have our opprotunity.

Yes, but when we make the effort to go out and find opportunity, we can
expand our experiences even that much more.


John Andersen
Uncoventional Ideas at http://www.unconventionalideas.com
Themestream Articles
http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_by_tag.gsp?auth_id=34436
Read about the Andersen family travels:
http://www.unconventionalideas.com/travel.html

John O. Andersen

Laura,

Thanks for the kind note.

> This was simply wonderful and so inspirational. Thank you. It seemed to
be
> just what I needed today. We've just had a really rough week with my 12
yo
> son. This is his first year homeschooling. We've been having a hard time
> pinpointing his interests. It is like pulling teeth. He is bascially not
> interested in anything.

I wish you luck with your son. We have similar struggles with our own son,
though there are glimmers of hope from time to time. On the other hand, our
daughter seems to have already caught the vision.

John Andersen
Uncoventional Ideas at http://www.unconventionalideas.com
Themestream Articles
http://www.themestream.com/gspd_browse/browse/view_by_tag.gsp?auth_id=34436
Read about the Andersen family travels:
http://www.unconventionalideas.com/travel.html

[email protected]

Hi Everyone,
I have been reading all the posts on active rolls on unschooling. Let me just
say that I took my daughter out of school last December, we started off with
school at home. That was a nightmare!! My daughter goes in two directions
either she catches on real fast and then gets bored to death or she has a
hard time and gets really frustrated and starts with the poor me , Im so
dumb, or Im stupid. The latter part of it really bothers me. So began the
unschooling journey, I have read and reread all the books I can get my hands
on (lucky for me I love to read.) Any way it was very hard for me to see the
big picture and still is , we started officially unschooling in April of last
year and all seemed well in the beginning ..After reading the books again and
reading the posts on the list , I felt confident to go with it. I have spent
the last 6 months watching my daughter sit in front of the t.v. or play
gameboy(Im with the mother who said she would like to throw gameboy out the
window)some days she does nothing but eat all day. Let me just say I think at
this point I have very little tongue left as I have bitten right off trying
to keep my nagging mouth shut. Everyone says this is the de-schooling stage
and I should let her be. So I have. I have spent many sleepless nights
wondering if what I feel in my heart could truely be what is right in my
head. I love the idea of unschooling but the schoolish part of me needs to
see results. We are required by law in NH to test once a year. We did that in
July with the PASS Test from Hewitt Resources. I JUST recieved the results
Friday. She did really good. 90th% on the nationals ( with no help from me
other than organizing the pages)
I am so sorry to go on but this week has been very difficult for me. Before
we started unschooling my daughter loved to read , draw, make concoctions in
the kitchen. (which I hated) Now when she says shes bored and I suggest she
read one of the million books I have bought for her, she replies with "Mom ,
I dont want to do school work." when the "school" year started this sept. I
thought I would be prepared for ALL the great things that would happen so I
ordered all kinds of books like Cartooning for beginners and Easy drawing
lessons and How to draw animals. She has not touched them. I bought The Big
Book of How. and other reference materials , nothing specific , just stuff
that she could use if she had a motivation. I DID NOT push them on her , just
let her know they were there if she wanted them. I have mentioned music
lessons and theater(shes a Drama Qween) She takes Riding lessons and loves
that but shows no interest in the two horses that we own. She is an only
child and is lonely sometimes but when I bring up a support group (we even
went to one) she shrugs it off. When I suggested 4-H she had no interest. Or
she replies with "Mom , that is so queer" Truthfully at this point I am at a
complete loss .Now I am having a problem with family members. I had mentioned
to my sister that Kearstins test results came in and she did really good on
them. She said that was great. But while we are on the subject I wanted to
talk to you about this homeschooling thing. (None of my family members
supports me on this , except my wonderful husband.) So of course I was a
little on gaurd. She said that my family had a " Family Discussion" about me
and that they felt that homeschooling was not in "The Best Interest of
Kearstin" as there is no structure and every kid needs stucture!!! I was
livid at first . My reaction was who the hell are you to discuss my family
and who do you think you are telling me that I might unknowingly hurt my
child . My poor sister was elected by the family to have this talk with me
because she is the most likely to be open and compassionate.??? She said that
is was discussed that maybe someone should make a phone call to child
services so that I would comply with my familys wishes and send my daughter
back to school where she will recieve stucture!!! You will be happy to know
that I did not lose control.,...... or my temper I did not even raise my
voice. I talked it out with my sister I put myself in there shoes and thought
how I could explain my views and hopes. She felt aweful and asked me if I was
mad at her. I said no Im not mad. I am hurt and disappointed that nobody
called me to ask me in the first place . That if they were so concerned they
would have gone to the bookstore and read up on homeschooling and unschooling
and tryed to see where I was coming from. That really it was none of their
business how I bring up my daughter, but because they said they were
concerned I would try to help them understand. I asked my sister that if I
brought her some books , would she read them and try to at least get an idea
of unschooling. Then at least even if she dosnt agree she will know why she
dosnt agree. I told her I wouldnt change my mind about unschooling because I
believe in my heart that its the right thing to do. But that I would keep the
family updated on her progress. (as soon as I figure that one out.)
So I left there feeling very unsure of myself and found myself questioning
yet again if I really knew what I was doing. I talked with my husband ( who
just about went through the roof when I told him of the family discussion)
But he assured me that we were doing fine and we should keep waiting for
Kearstin to show signs of Motivation. If any kind soul would like to send out
some advice or reassurences. I would be most grateful as I turn to the lists
for my support. Thank you all for reading this very long post.

Tamie
Unsure of herself at the moment.

[email protected]

In a message dated 00-10-31 11:28:58 EST, Tamilooch@... writes:

<< She said that my family had a " Family Discussion" about me
and that they felt that homeschooling was not in "The Best Interest of
Kearstin" as there is no structure and every kid needs stucture!!! >>

They had a family meeting without inviting you or even mailing you the agenda?
How Rude!! <g>

What you did sounds good (if way too much work for you), and here's an idea
for Phase II: If they're pretty sure it's their place to decide what and how
and when to call Social Services, you might (bluffing) send them the "bill"
(brochures and figures) for structure-providing activities such as dance
schools and theatre groups and all kinds of stuff and tell them to split it
however they want to, but to send the money as soon as possible. If they
seem surprised at your wanting to pay for Kearstin's tuition, it will be one
of those BINGO!! moments for them. It's not their responsibility, nor their
right. If they own her they can pay for her!!!

Sandra

[email protected]

Sandra,
Hehee what a great idea. I love how you view things.

Tamie

Bill & Sher

>Now I am having a problem with family members. I had mentioned
>to my sister that Kearstins test results came in and she did really good on
>them. She said that was great. But while we are on the subject I wanted to
>talk to you about this homeschooling thing. (None of my family members
>supports me on this , except my wonderful husband.) So of course I was a
>little on gaurd. She said that my family had a " Family Discussion" about me
>and that they felt that homeschooling was not in "The Best Interest of
>Kearstin" as there is no structure and every kid needs stucture!!! I was
>livid at first . My reaction was who the hell are you to discuss my family
>and who do you think you are telling me that I might unknowingly hurt my
>child . My poor sister was elected by the family to have this talk with me
>because she is the most likely to be open and compassionate.??? She said that
>is was discussed that maybe someone should make a phone call to child
>services so that I would comply with my familys wishes and send my daughter
>back to school where she will recieve stucture!!!

Your family must not know just exactly what Child Services is. I know there are many employees that love and protect children. But you don't have to let them into your home and you shouldn't. Some of the employees have taken children out the home for dirty laundry. I know I have seen in court what they have done. Your family is dangerous. I would tell them if they did go ahead with call Child Services, they can forget about ever hearing from me or my family again.

I agree with the post the sends your family the "bill" for schooling. And when they tell you it is not their responsibility, CLEARLY tell them until they see your daughter in danger (so hurt and bruised from your abuse or neglect that it endangers her life) that their opinion should be kept to themselves. Your style of schooling is safe. Unlike many of today's public school where there are guns, knives, drugs, ect...

My step-children go to public high school because they live with their mom. They tell me that there are drug searches every week, with 10% of the student searched having drugs on them. The have a weapons search every month and last month 1/2 the cars searched were towed off the property. When I went to school in the early 80's, there were 5 rapes in 3 years, 1 teacher was beat and put in the hospital, and we had armed guards on campus. So public school is really dangerous and uncaring choice in my opinion.

If Child Service and the courts rule that you must place your children in school, that endangers all of us. If they can tell us how to school our children, they can tell us how to raise them, what church to bring them too, what kind of medical care, ect...

Sher, jumps off her soap-box


Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

Kathryn B Cauley

hello im new to the group
just had to input this

thank you Sher
get right back on that soap box say it loud say it proud!
Kathy
kbcauley@...

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:21:56 -0800 "Bill & Sher"
<yet_will_i_trust.him@...> writes:
>>Now I am having a problem with family members. I had mentioned
>>to my sister that Kearstins test results came in and she did really
>good on
>>them. She said that was great. But while we are on the subject I
>wanted to
>>talk to you about this homeschooling thing. (None of my family
>members
>>supports me on this , except my wonderful husband.) So of course I
>was a
>>little on gaurd. She said that my family had a " Family Discussion"
>about me
>>and that they felt that homeschooling was not in "The Best Interest
>of
>>Kearstin" as there is no structure and every kid needs stucture!!! I
>was
>>livid at first . My reaction was who the hell are you to discuss my
>family
>>and who do you think you are telling me that I might unknowingly hurt
>my
>>child . My poor sister was elected by the family to have this talk
>with me
>>because she is the most likely to be open and compassionate.??? She
>said that
>>is was discussed that maybe someone should make a phone call to child
>
>>services so that I would comply with my familys wishes and send my
>daughter
>>back to school where she will recieve stucture!!!
>
>Your family must not know just exactly what Child Services is. I know
>there are many employees that love and protect children. But you
>don't have to let them into your home and you shouldn't. Some of the
>employees have taken children out the home for dirty laundry. I know
>I have seen in court what they have done. Your family is dangerous.
>I would tell them if they did go ahead with call Child Services, they
>can forget about ever hearing from me or my family again.
>
>I agree with the post the sends your family the "bill" for schooling.
>And when they tell you it is not their responsibility, CLEARLY tell
>them until they see your daughter in danger (so hurt and bruised from
>your abuse or neglect that it endangers her life) that their opinion
>should be kept to themselves. Your style of schooling is safe.
>Unlike many of today's public school where there are guns, knives,
>drugs, ect...
>
>My step-children go to public high school because they live with their
>mom. They tell me that there are drug searches every week, with 10%
>of the student searched having drugs on them. The have a weapons
>search every month and last month 1/2 the cars searched were towed off
>the property. When I went to school in the early 80's, there were 5
>rapes in 3 years, 1 teacher was beat and put in the hospital, and we
>had armed guards on campus. So public school is really dangerous and
>uncaring choice in my opinion.
>
>If Child Service and the courts rule that you must place your children
>in school, that endangers all of us. If they can tell us how to
>school our children, they can tell us how to raise them, what church
>to bring them too, what kind of medical care, ect...
>
>Sher, jumps off her soap-box
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
>-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>

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Kathryn B Cauley

Sarah-the story of your daughter T.V./edu. was very insightful and
helpful.
Thanks- it was a good read!
Kathy

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Sarah Carothers

Thanks, Kathy. I always hesitate to tell it, thinking that it may come across as bragging. Yes, I am very proud of her and how she's doing (and I *do* brag%-/ ).  What spurs me on to risk the bragging label is that I do believe there's a place for tv. If a parent leaves it up to the kids to decide what to watch, as I did, THEN SITS WITH THE KIDS TO WATCH IT (very important), the kids seem to govern themselves over what's right and wrong. And, if they choose a "wrong" show to watch, it's a great time to nit-pick the show to death, pointing out all it's flaws.( " gosh, did you all see how that actress was dressed and how that, alone, affected how those officials treated her?!  Is that right/just? And whether or not it is, why would she choose to dress like that? What could she do to give a different impression?"..  that kind of stuff) After approaching the tv monster in this manner, I have had no problems with the girls choosing 'bad' stuff to watch. They see through it and it's not something mystical and wonderful anymore.
..off my little soapbox.
Sarah :-)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The Parent's Essential Active Role in Unschooling

Sarah-the story of your daughter T.V./edu. was very insightful and
helpful.
Thanks- it was a good read!
Kathy