RE:[Unschooling-dotcom] Schools (was: I am so angry)
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
>I believe that children should be taught at home by parents or in very small groups. (I might consider retaining the one-room schoolhouse.) School is the worst way to provide for a child's -- any child's -- education. And because I am sure to get flamed, I might as well say that of course some people, single parents, those few families in which both parents must work, or for those few families that just don't have the temperment, must make provision for their children. Personally, I would much rather see those children in the arms of a nice cooperating homeschooling family during theI know it's a big chunk for me to paste, but I just could not bear to cut any of it out. How many ways are there to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly? I feel the very same way, and one room schools, mixing kids of various ages, and skill levels, and peer tutoring one another as they are led in their studies by a caring adult is a much healthier model for school than our current ideal, which I refer to as Kiddie Prison.
>day than warehoused in a school.
>Carron
I would make one amendment to your statement, however. When you said that school was the worst way to provide for any child's education. My amendment would be to say that I think you should not stop at children. It is the worst way for ANYONE of ANY AGE to learn.
And that MY .02!
Nanci K.
------------------------------------------------------------
Show off your pagan (and Idaho) pride, get Idaho Pagan Mail(tm) today!
Sign up at http://www.idahopagan.com/
[email protected]
In a message dated 00-09-06 14:18:34 EDT, you write:
<< I just don't know how to do it since so many
parents seem to think activities with the younger ones is a waste of time
for the older ones or somehow interferes with the older one's more serious
efforts! >>
cindy,
i am dealing with the same thing here with my local support groups and i used
to plan open-aged trips 2 to 3 times a month. i pretty much have stepped back
from the group--their loss, not mine--and i am planning trips for people i
choose to invite and am concentrating on learning within my own family-13 1/2
yob, 8 yob, 5 yob and 22 month old girl- and play dates with other families.
bridget
<< I just don't know how to do it since so many
parents seem to think activities with the younger ones is a waste of time
for the older ones or somehow interferes with the older one's more serious
efforts! >>
cindy,
i am dealing with the same thing here with my local support groups and i used
to plan open-aged trips 2 to 3 times a month. i pretty much have stepped back
from the group--their loss, not mine--and i am planning trips for people i
choose to invite and am concentrating on learning within my own family-13 1/2
yob, 8 yob, 5 yob and 22 month old girl- and play dates with other families.
bridget
Lynda
Have you noticed that although some folks profess to want out of the whole
ps nightmare that they just can't let go. They just have to take all the
basic rules and make them their own, put their own twist on them but there
are still the same rules.
Our youngest is 8 and the big kids (16 and 17 yo boys and their
girlfriends) drag her around with them and it is a two-way learning street
for both age groups. Age (as Cindy knows) is one of my pet peeves <g> It
is such an arbitary thing to judge an individual by. I mean, #2 son was
born OLD, age had nothing to do with anything he did/does. Eldest daughter
I'm not sure is ever going to reach an age beyond about 18. The calendar
tells us absolutely nothing and, IMHO, should only be used to schedule fun
things to do!
Lynda
----------
ps nightmare that they just can't let go. They just have to take all the
basic rules and make them their own, put their own twist on them but there
are still the same rules.
Our youngest is 8 and the big kids (16 and 17 yo boys and their
girlfriends) drag her around with them and it is a two-way learning street
for both age groups. Age (as Cindy knows) is one of my pet peeves <g> It
is such an arbitary thing to judge an individual by. I mean, #2 son was
born OLD, age had nothing to do with anything he did/does. Eldest daughter
I'm not sure is ever going to reach an age beyond about 18. The calendar
tells us absolutely nothing and, IMHO, should only be used to schedule fun
things to do!
Lynda
----------
> From: Cindy Ferguson <crma@...>this
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Schools (was: I am so angry)
> Date: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:10 AM
> >
> I agree with Nancy and Carron.
>
> I'm decided I'm done dealing with one of my local support groups over
> type of issue. Many of them have this idea that activities must besegregated
> by age. For example the apparent leader emailed some ideas about anatural
> history unit study based on the different ecosystems/habitats we havehere
> in the Bay Area - for 3rd to 6th graders. My children and I are excludedmany
> since they are 5 and 3. So some of us will do our own but I'd like to
> see older children included! I just don't know how to do it since so
> parents seem to think activities with the younger ones is a waste of timeserious
> for the older ones or somehow interferes with the older one's more
> efforts!member
>
> This same group puts out a literary magazine. I was informed by one
> (and since the person who seems to be the leader was sitting right thereI
> assume she agreed) that my children were too young for that. It turnsout
> that one of our big unschooling activities now is story dictation from myon
> 5 year old daughter. She tells wonderfully creative and involved stories
> about an imaginary type of animal. So we will be making books; she will
> tell me the story; I will print out the text; we will put it on pages and
> she will illustrate them.
>
> I am thankful I have many groups in my area! If anyone has suggestions
> how to deal with this, I'd love to hear them!
>
> Thanks!!
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
[email protected]
I agree with the age thing. And what is really funny is that in the never
ending effort for schools to bring real life into the classroom, my nephew's
elementary school has a buddy system where older kids are paired with younger
kids and they do projects together and homework help - stuff like that. It
just is natural for kids to hang out with kids of all ages, if given the
opportunity.
Sandy
ending effort for schools to bring real life into the classroom, my nephew's
elementary school has a buddy system where older kids are paired with younger
kids and they do projects together and homework help - stuff like that. It
just is natural for kids to hang out with kids of all ages, if given the
opportunity.
Sandy
Cathie _
Cindy, we have a Homeschool Resource Center near, where any one who wants to
throw a class can, sometimes they do seperate them by ages, but most have
been pretty open minded. We had a really great environmental education class
last year. Many kids wanted to take it, so there was one class time for
youngers and one for older kids. They did some different experiments in each
class, but when we had a speaker or a field trip all the kids went together.
Our trip to the landfill had kids from 2 to 16 and lots of Moms. The kids
were all attentive and asked good questions and were very well
informed-little ones as well as teens. While we waited for our turn in the
tour van they all played around together. It worked out very well for all, I
think. Btw, the mom who planned this class got a grant from the Keep
Franklin County Beautiful Committee and had enough money to buy test kits
and a tv and vcr for the center and pay for the guests and trips-there are
alot of possabilities out there.
Cathie
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com
throw a class can, sometimes they do seperate them by ages, but most have
been pretty open minded. We had a really great environmental education class
last year. Many kids wanted to take it, so there was one class time for
youngers and one for older kids. They did some different experiments in each
class, but when we had a speaker or a field trip all the kids went together.
Our trip to the landfill had kids from 2 to 16 and lots of Moms. The kids
were all attentive and asked good questions and were very well
informed-little ones as well as teens. While we waited for our turn in the
tour van they all played around together. It worked out very well for all, I
think. Btw, the mom who planned this class got a grant from the Keep
Franklin County Beautiful Committee and had enough money to buy test kits
and a tv and vcr for the center and pay for the guests and trips-there are
alot of possabilities out there.
Cathie
>I am thankful I have many groups in my area! If anyone has suggestions on_________________________________________________________________________
>how to deal with this, I'd love to hear them!
>
>Thanks!!
>
>--
>
>Cindy Ferguson
>crma@...
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/2000 1:05:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
the last few days (I'm about 2 days behind in reading it all!), I really
wondered after I sent the post whether I'd be trashed for having such a
strong opinion. It's nice to know that I'm not alone out there.
BTW, I almost agree with your comment about school and ANYONE. But, I have
to admit I am a little biased. Once a year I teach a college course or two
to a bunch of undergraduates in a legal studies program. It's an elective,
so the students are somewhat more motivated, in fact, they are generally
delightful. Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out to make my courses more
unschoolish.
As to college on the whole, I do not agree with having broad based
requirements (like social studies for a math major). I would allow students
to take whatever they want to. I would also have more seminars and
independent study programs. I wouldn't do away with college. Come to think
of it, my ideal college would look at lot like a homeschooling support group
with co-op classes!
Carron
Carron
tn-k4of5@... writes:
> I would make one amendment to your statement, however. When you said thatamendment
> school was the worst way to provide for any child's education. My
> would be to say that I think you should not stop at children. It is theThank you Nanci, for your kind words. With all the hullaballoo on the list
> worst way for ANYONE of ANY AGE to learn.
> And that MY .02!
>
> Nanci K.
the last few days (I'm about 2 days behind in reading it all!), I really
wondered after I sent the post whether I'd be trashed for having such a
strong opinion. It's nice to know that I'm not alone out there.
BTW, I almost agree with your comment about school and ANYONE. But, I have
to admit I am a little biased. Once a year I teach a college course or two
to a bunch of undergraduates in a legal studies program. It's an elective,
so the students are somewhat more motivated, in fact, they are generally
delightful. Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out to make my courses more
unschoolish.
As to college on the whole, I do not agree with having broad based
requirements (like social studies for a math major). I would allow students
to take whatever they want to. I would also have more seminars and
independent study programs. I wouldn't do away with college. Come to think
of it, my ideal college would look at lot like a homeschooling support group
with co-op classes!
Carron
Carron
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/2000 1:18:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
crma@... writes:
year of our co-op classes, and the teachers have put age restrictions on
their classes. For instance, we have two choir groups. This has worked well
because the younger kids get very fidgetty after about a 1/2 hour, and the
older kids have been able to work on more complicated material. The science
teacher has segregated her classes by grade, 4-6th grades, 7&8th grades, and
high school. We've had some younger children who were perfectly capable of
handling material for the older grades, but she's made a firm policy of not
allowing the kids into the classes unless they were age appropriate for the
grades she's covering. She says she's had too many parents ask for
exceptions. At home she's a more structured homeschooler, too. So, I'm sure
that enters into her thinking.
Carron
For example the apparent leader emailed some ideas about a natural
crma@... writes:
> I'm decided I'm done dealing with one of my local support groups over thisMost of our activities are not segregated by age. But, this is the second
> type of issue. Many of them have this idea that activities must be
> segregated
> by age.
year of our co-op classes, and the teachers have put age restrictions on
their classes. For instance, we have two choir groups. This has worked well
because the younger kids get very fidgetty after about a 1/2 hour, and the
older kids have been able to work on more complicated material. The science
teacher has segregated her classes by grade, 4-6th grades, 7&8th grades, and
high school. We've had some younger children who were perfectly capable of
handling material for the older grades, but she's made a firm policy of not
allowing the kids into the classes unless they were age appropriate for the
grades she's covering. She says she's had too many parents ask for
exceptions. At home she's a more structured homeschooler, too. So, I'm sure
that enters into her thinking.
Carron
For example the apparent leader emailed some ideas about a natural
> history unit study based on the different ecosystems/habitats we have here
> in the Bay Area - for 3rd to 6th graders. My children and I are excluded
> since they are 5 and 3. So some of us will do our own but I'd like to
> see older children included! I just don't know how to do it since so many
> parents seem to think activities with the younger ones is a waste of time
> for the older ones or somehow interferes with the older one's more serious
> efforts!
>
> This same group puts out a literary magazine. I was informed by one member
> (and since the person who seems to be the leader was sitting right there I
> assume she agreed) that my children were too young for that. It turns out
> that one of our big unschooling activities now is story dictation from my
> 5 year old daughter. She tells wonderfully creative and involved stories
> about an imaginary type of animal. So we will be making books; she will
> tell me the story; I will print out the text; we will put it on pages and
> she will illustrate them.
>
> I am thankful I have many groups in my area! If anyone has suggestions on
> how to deal with this, I'd love to hear them!
>
> Thanks!!
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@...
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/2000 5:31:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
Broadcolea@... writes:
the kids did not segregate themselves by age when they played. The younger
kids were included with the older ones. And that was not imposed by the
grown-ups. The kids played together because they wanted to play together. I
thought that was so neat!
Carron
Broadcolea@... writes:
> ItOne of the things that attracted me to our support group was the fact that
> just is natural for kids to hang out with kids of all ages, if given the
> opportunity.
>
> Sandy
the kids did not segregate themselves by age when they played. The younger
kids were included with the older ones. And that was not imposed by the
grown-ups. The kids played together because they wanted to play together. I
thought that was so neat!
Carron