to be a dr.-advice please
MOX
Hi everyone!
I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking, lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you!
Tonia
mox@...
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking, lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you!
Tonia
mox@...
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
[email protected]
**A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this
happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to
this point)?**
Mostly by deschooling yourself and reading a lot about unschooling :-) One
of the hardest parts is to imagine reaching a goal by wandering about
seemingly aimlessly. But how did he learn to talk? By having the will and
exploring at random, right? And I bet he mastered it, regardless of what
route he took.
*If* he truely wants to be a doctor/surgeon, it'll happen. He'll be
motivated enough to learn what he needs to learn.
It only seems like an enormous task when looked at in schoolish terms. But
that's because schools approach learning from the wrong direction. Schools
give kids the facts, then trust they'll come up with a reason for using them.
Through unschooling, we can let kids find the reasons and then they'll be
motivated to learn the facts -- and quite often just absorb the facts as they
are exploring for the fun of it.
Do you have A.D.A.M. The Inside Story software? Lots of great anatomy stuff
to explore freeform. Dorling Kindersley has some excellent software and
might have something similar or related. (www.dk.com) Check out Discovery
and Learning Channels and PBS for science shows that might be even remotely
related to biology. (They all have websites and programming guides.)
Discover magazine is excellent and often has biology articles in it. In a
year or two he can probably volunteer at a hospital. There's Grays Anatomy
coloring book. There are cow's eye and frog dissection programs on line.
And there are things to order from Carolina Biological Supply catalog.
These are all just few ideas of things to have around. They are not things
that will teach him to be a doctor. Let him explore. If he's drawn towards
doctorish stuff, then he'll end up as a doctor. If he's naturally drawn to
other things, he'll head off on another path and it would have been a mistake
to urge him down the more narrow doctor path even if that's what he says he
wants.
**I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation
Handbook" but what else should one think about or do?**
That's an excellent start. And after you read it you'll have a better idea
of what you need to ask about.
**How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children?**
Harvard takes homeschooled/unschooled kids so what else is there to know? ;-)
But just in case, check out:
� <A HREF="http://www.learninfreedom.org/">School Is Dead; Learn in Freedom!
</A>
http://www.learninfreedom.org/
� <A HREF="http://www.concentric.net/~Ctcohen/">Homeschool / Teens / College
</A>
http://www.concentric.net/~Ctcohen/
� <A HREF="http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschooling/">A to Z Home's Cool -
Homeschooling Web Site
</A>
http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschooling
**Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue
considering his goal or not?**
I think the worst thing anyone can do is to discourage a goal, no matter how
unrealizable it seems. If someone really wants something, regardless of the
apparent obstacles in front of them, they'll find a way to get to it.
**What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling?**
Unschooling doesn't necessarily mean no structure. It means no
parent-imposed structure. If a child decides he'd like to use a textbook or
take a community college class or a class online to learn something, then
that's unschooling.
Unschooling is scary because we think we know so much more than our kids and
we can see the path they need to take to reach their goal so much clearer.
But our superior knowledge can put blinders on kids so that they become so
focused on taking the path they say they want that we've then laid out for
them, that they miss some fascinating side paths that would have lead them in
a direction neither of you could have foreseen.
Joyce
happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to
this point)?**
Mostly by deschooling yourself and reading a lot about unschooling :-) One
of the hardest parts is to imagine reaching a goal by wandering about
seemingly aimlessly. But how did he learn to talk? By having the will and
exploring at random, right? And I bet he mastered it, regardless of what
route he took.
*If* he truely wants to be a doctor/surgeon, it'll happen. He'll be
motivated enough to learn what he needs to learn.
It only seems like an enormous task when looked at in schoolish terms. But
that's because schools approach learning from the wrong direction. Schools
give kids the facts, then trust they'll come up with a reason for using them.
Through unschooling, we can let kids find the reasons and then they'll be
motivated to learn the facts -- and quite often just absorb the facts as they
are exploring for the fun of it.
Do you have A.D.A.M. The Inside Story software? Lots of great anatomy stuff
to explore freeform. Dorling Kindersley has some excellent software and
might have something similar or related. (www.dk.com) Check out Discovery
and Learning Channels and PBS for science shows that might be even remotely
related to biology. (They all have websites and programming guides.)
Discover magazine is excellent and often has biology articles in it. In a
year or two he can probably volunteer at a hospital. There's Grays Anatomy
coloring book. There are cow's eye and frog dissection programs on line.
And there are things to order from Carolina Biological Supply catalog.
These are all just few ideas of things to have around. They are not things
that will teach him to be a doctor. Let him explore. If he's drawn towards
doctorish stuff, then he'll end up as a doctor. If he's naturally drawn to
other things, he'll head off on another path and it would have been a mistake
to urge him down the more narrow doctor path even if that's what he says he
wants.
**I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation
Handbook" but what else should one think about or do?**
That's an excellent start. And after you read it you'll have a better idea
of what you need to ask about.
**How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children?**
Harvard takes homeschooled/unschooled kids so what else is there to know? ;-)
But just in case, check out:
� <A HREF="http://www.learninfreedom.org/">School Is Dead; Learn in Freedom!
</A>
http://www.learninfreedom.org/
� <A HREF="http://www.concentric.net/~Ctcohen/">Homeschool / Teens / College
</A>
http://www.concentric.net/~Ctcohen/
� <A HREF="http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschooling/">A to Z Home's Cool -
Homeschooling Web Site
</A>
http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschooling
**Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue
considering his goal or not?**
I think the worst thing anyone can do is to discourage a goal, no matter how
unrealizable it seems. If someone really wants something, regardless of the
apparent obstacles in front of them, they'll find a way to get to it.
**What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling?**
Unschooling doesn't necessarily mean no structure. It means no
parent-imposed structure. If a child decides he'd like to use a textbook or
take a community college class or a class online to learn something, then
that's unschooling.
Unschooling is scary because we think we know so much more than our kids and
we can see the path they need to take to reach their goal so much clearer.
But our superior knowledge can put blinders on kids so that they become so
focused on taking the path they say they want that we've then laid out for
them, that they miss some fascinating side paths that would have lead them in
a direction neither of you could have foreseen.
Joyce
Jane E.
Dear Tonia,
Remember, medical schools do not take students directly out of high school. A student needs to have completed a 4-year degree in college before going on to medical school. Many students who did not complete math and science requirements in high school can take them in college later. A number of hs highschoolers do what is called "double-dipping," they attend community college classes to fulfill high school requirements or personal interests and at the same time get a jump on some college credit.
Many colleges are now actively recruiting homeschooled students. They are finding that contrary to the notion that hs'ed students are unprepared, they are independent and creative learners and an asset to the student body.
And (I say this very gently) a 13 year old will probably change his/her mind a dozen times before settling on a career that requires long years of schooling and many thousands of dollars. I believe this is as it should be, this is an age for exploring, not locking themselves in to a particular path. If your 13 year old is already committed to this, he/she will begin exploring the sciences and higher mathematics, and only needs support and resources. If these kids need structure, they often create their own. And I believe, again, that this, not structure imposed from the outside (by me!) is the basis for self discipline that is so valuable later in life.
Love, Jane
-----Original Message-----
From: MOX <mox@...>
To: ru@... <ru@...>
Cc: Oregon Homeschooling Discussion List <ORSIG@...>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 3:31 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] to be a dr.-advice please
Hi everyone!
I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking, lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you!
Tonia
mox@...
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
Remember, medical schools do not take students directly out of high school. A student needs to have completed a 4-year degree in college before going on to medical school. Many students who did not complete math and science requirements in high school can take them in college later. A number of hs highschoolers do what is called "double-dipping," they attend community college classes to fulfill high school requirements or personal interests and at the same time get a jump on some college credit.
Many colleges are now actively recruiting homeschooled students. They are finding that contrary to the notion that hs'ed students are unprepared, they are independent and creative learners and an asset to the student body.
And (I say this very gently) a 13 year old will probably change his/her mind a dozen times before settling on a career that requires long years of schooling and many thousands of dollars. I believe this is as it should be, this is an age for exploring, not locking themselves in to a particular path. If your 13 year old is already committed to this, he/she will begin exploring the sciences and higher mathematics, and only needs support and resources. If these kids need structure, they often create their own. And I believe, again, that this, not structure imposed from the outside (by me!) is the basis for self discipline that is so valuable later in life.
Love, Jane
-----Original Message-----
From: MOX <mox@...>
To: ru@... <ru@...>
Cc: Oregon Homeschooling Discussion List <ORSIG@...>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 3:31 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] to be a dr.-advice please
Hi everyone!
I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking, lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you!
Tonia
mox@...
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
julie1264
Tonia,
I am going to add my 2 cents here, based on MY CONCEPT of unschooling. My kids are little, just 2 and 4 months so one might say I don't know what I am talking about.
With all the reading I have been doing over the past two months it is my understanding that the whole point of unschooling is to lead the children to learning. So, any activity that we do will end up including all the subjects, (reading, writing, math and etc.) inspite of ourselves. Didn't we all have the discussion a little while back about how we all use Algebra everyday and did not even realize it? ;-)
Even at this early age if your son studied (for the lack of a better word) medical related topics, I think that he would be better prepared for medical school and etc. than your run of the mill ps student who wants to go into the medical field?
It is just a thought.
Have a good day,
Julie
I am going to add my 2 cents here, based on MY CONCEPT of unschooling. My kids are little, just 2 and 4 months so one might say I don't know what I am talking about.
With all the reading I have been doing over the past two months it is my understanding that the whole point of unschooling is to lead the children to learning. So, any activity that we do will end up including all the subjects, (reading, writing, math and etc.) inspite of ourselves. Didn't we all have the discussion a little while back about how we all use Algebra everyday and did not even realize it? ;-)
Even at this early age if your son studied (for the lack of a better word) medical related topics, I think that he would be better prepared for medical school and etc. than your run of the mill ps student who wants to go into the medical field?
It is just a thought.
Have a good day,
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: MOX
To: ru@...
Cc: Oregon Homeschooling Discussion List ; UN-SCHOOL@... ; Unschooling-dotcom@...
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 2:25 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] to be a dr.-advice please
Hi everyone!
I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking, lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you!
Tonia
mox@...
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
Gregg Thorn
Here's an idea - may be appropriate, may not - how aobut seeing if your 13
yr old can help out down at the local vets or get similar work experience'
in a medical type area - what about doing the local Ambulance or first aid
course, or work experience with the ambulance itself - who knows what will
come from such exposure.
Gollumgregg - a lover of hobbits - especially purged, gutted, filleted and
roasted over a slow fire. Cordon Bleu my Precious!
Pls send cc to gollum@... as infrequent problems plague the curtin
address
----------
doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling
from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start
would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should
one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take
hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for
him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking,
lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm
not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I
appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system
as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you! Tonia
mox@... <mailto:mox@...>
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
<http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults>
yr old can help out down at the local vets or get similar work experience'
in a medical type area - what about doing the local Ambulance or first aid
course, or work experience with the ambulance itself - who knows what will
come from such exposure.
Gollumgregg - a lover of hobbits - especially purged, gutted, filleted and
roasted over a slow fire. Cordon Bleu my Precious!
Pls send cc to gollum@... as infrequent problems plague the curtin
address
----------
>From: "MOX" <mox@...>Hi everyone! I'd like some input on this one: A child (now 13) wants to be a
>To: <ru@...>
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] to be a dr.-advice please
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:25:10 -0700
>
doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this happen if the child is unschooling
from this age on (has been in ps up to this point)? I feel like a good start
would be Grace Lewelyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook" but what else should
one think about or do? How could we research if medical schools take
hsed/unsed children? Since he has been in the ps system would it be wise for
him to continue considering his goal or not? (Yes, I realize who I'm asking,
lol!) What about hsing but w/structure instead of unschooling? I feel I'm
not thinking "out of the box" on this one and would like others views. I
appreciate all replies. I'd really like to see this happen out of the system
as much as possible, is it possible? Thank you! Tonia
mox@... <mailto:mox@...>
Hammond, OR
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults
<http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/DeschoolingAdults>
[email protected]
Hello!
Does OR have a program whereby your teen can take classes at a nearby
community college? In WA we call it "Running Start." It's free tuition if
the student passes a test called the ASSET test, which tells the school that
he/she's functioning at a Junior in High School level (not that hard). Then
for the "llth and 12th" grades, he/she can attend (at any age - just have to
pass the test) up to full time for two years and actually get a free AA
degree! From there, colleges and universities don't check about any high
school stuff - they just transfer! No prob, Bob. LOTS of homeschoolers do
Running Start here - check into it for OR. He/she may have to have a decent
SAT score - but they can study for that. Hope this helps. Lynnie from
Olympia WA
Does OR have a program whereby your teen can take classes at a nearby
community college? In WA we call it "Running Start." It's free tuition if
the student passes a test called the ASSET test, which tells the school that
he/she's functioning at a Junior in High School level (not that hard). Then
for the "llth and 12th" grades, he/she can attend (at any age - just have to
pass the test) up to full time for two years and actually get a free AA
degree! From there, colleges and universities don't check about any high
school stuff - they just transfer! No prob, Bob. LOTS of homeschoolers do
Running Start here - check into it for OR. He/she may have to have a decent
SAT score - but they can study for that. Hope this helps. Lynnie from
Olympia WA
[email protected]
<< A child (now 13) wants to be a doctor-surgeon of some type. How can this
happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to
this point)? >>
I hit reply to all and see four lists listed. This could be a problem if
some of them are clear to receive posts from people outside of them. Maybe
they'll all just bounce except the one I'm on.
A child out of school will have more freedom to pursue medical-related things
than a child in school. If you want to spend some money, find the Anatomy
Coloring Book, and maybe some of the "visible man" and other such plastic
anatomy kits. There are dissection sites on line (frog and eyeball come to
mind) and there are magazines that will sell you dissectable stuff, but there
are also butcher shops in town that might allow a tour and some take-home
animal's heads and such. Learning biology by hook or crook is still
learning, and the more hands-on the better. The diagrams in books are often
colored like U.S. maps--four or more colors so you can tell what's what. If
the kid gets the feel for what colors things really are that would be a
plus--most people don't get that until they get to third year college biology.
I think outside of school and unschooling is a great path.
Try not to press the child. Try not to say, "Why are you wanting
Shakespeare? Surgeons don't need Shakespeare." Because one good pet wound
close up might end that medical thing for life, and you don't want to start
at the age of 13 to make a child a failure for not living up to "Life's
goals." Treat interests as interests, not as life-long commitments. We
don't hold them to the girlfriends they have at 12 or 13, why hold them to
the "Gee I'd like to be a dancer" things they express?
Sandra
happen if the child is unschooling from this age on (has been in ps up to
this point)? >>
I hit reply to all and see four lists listed. This could be a problem if
some of them are clear to receive posts from people outside of them. Maybe
they'll all just bounce except the one I'm on.
A child out of school will have more freedom to pursue medical-related things
than a child in school. If you want to spend some money, find the Anatomy
Coloring Book, and maybe some of the "visible man" and other such plastic
anatomy kits. There are dissection sites on line (frog and eyeball come to
mind) and there are magazines that will sell you dissectable stuff, but there
are also butcher shops in town that might allow a tour and some take-home
animal's heads and such. Learning biology by hook or crook is still
learning, and the more hands-on the better. The diagrams in books are often
colored like U.S. maps--four or more colors so you can tell what's what. If
the kid gets the feel for what colors things really are that would be a
plus--most people don't get that until they get to third year college biology.
I think outside of school and unschooling is a great path.
Try not to press the child. Try not to say, "Why are you wanting
Shakespeare? Surgeons don't need Shakespeare." Because one good pet wound
close up might end that medical thing for life, and you don't want to start
at the age of 13 to make a child a failure for not living up to "Life's
goals." Treat interests as interests, not as life-long commitments. We
don't hold them to the girlfriends they have at 12 or 13, why hold them to
the "Gee I'd like to be a dancer" things they express?
Sandra
John O. Andersen
> Try not to press the child. Try not to say, "Why are you wantingwound
> Shakespeare? Surgeons don't need Shakespeare." Because one good pet
> close up might end that medical thing for life, and you don't want tostart
> at the age of 13 to make a child a failure for not living up to "Life'sto
> goals." Treat interests as interests, not as life-long commitments. We
> don't hold them to the girlfriends they have at 12 or 13, why hold them
> the "Gee I'd like to be a dancer" things they express?Yes, and the medical field is in a constant state of turmoil. As they get
older and more able to grasp this, some children may decide that even
though they have an interest in medicine, the idea of a career in it turns
them off.
The beauty of it is that they can learn and think and write about medical
issues, problems, and items of interest all of their lives without needing
to become a doctor.
John Andersen
A.Y.
What about talking to your own family Dr. Maybe there is a way your child could
spend some time volunteering in his /her office? Or volunteer at the local
hospital?
Just an idea.
Ann
spend some time volunteering in his /her office? Or volunteer at the local
hospital?
Just an idea.
Ann
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/27/99 7:48:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< but there
are also butcher shops in town that might allow a tour and some take-home
animal's heads and such. >>
Ahhhhhhh!!!! Flashback from my childhood! My dad was a meatcutter by trade
and one day, he walks in the back door with a pig's head and plops it down on
the table right in front of me and says "Me and Grandpa's gonna make head
cheese. Wanna watch?" I DON'T THINK SO!!! I don't think I ate for three days.
Talk about TRAUMA!! LOL!!
Mary Ellen.
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< but there
are also butcher shops in town that might allow a tour and some take-home
animal's heads and such. >>
Ahhhhhhh!!!! Flashback from my childhood! My dad was a meatcutter by trade
and one day, he walks in the back door with a pig's head and plops it down on
the table right in front of me and says "Me and Grandpa's gonna make head
cheese. Wanna watch?" I DON'T THINK SO!!! I don't think I ate for three days.
Talk about TRAUMA!! LOL!!
Mary Ellen.
Carol E. Burris
My dh has served on admission committees for the osteopathic
medical school for which he works. Nobody cares a bit about high
school. College and MCAT scores are what the look at.
Unschooling or homeschooling shouldn't make one bit of difference
one way or another.
Carol
Friend of Ishmael
The world shines bright with endless possibilities each time a
child is born.
medical school for which he works. Nobody cares a bit about high
school. College and MCAT scores are what the look at.
Unschooling or homeschooling shouldn't make one bit of difference
one way or another.
Carol
Friend of Ishmael
The world shines bright with endless possibilities each time a
child is born.