[email protected]

In a message dated 9/3/2000 10:46:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
NumoAstro@... writes:

> and the problem with having such strong emotions is????? Also the problem
> with having blood in the bathroom is???? So what, there's blood in the
> bathroom... Ah, just like another mother I know, maybe your mother didn't
> want to have to clean it up and all her control issues came to the
surface...
>
> Very classic Psychology 101,
>

Or maybe the mother was trying to get the child to calm down enough to get
medical attention which may have been very badly needed, judging by the blood
being flung about the room...?

Another point of view,
Eiraul

M & J Welch

I very much agree with this...

>>Or maybe the mother was trying to get the child to calm down enough to get
medical attention which may have been very badly needed, judging by the
blood
being flung about the room...?

Another point of view,
Eiraul<<

Regards

Lee

Shirley A Richardson-McCourt

I think the problem here was that a hysterical child is a child who cannot
be helped. You have to be able to reach them to help them. I have never had
to do this but I can understand how it might be necessary in some extreme
cases.

Shirley
----- Original Message -----
From: <NumoAstro@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 2:45 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spanking


>
> >>One time I was hysterical because my
> finger was profusely bleeding. I wouldn't stop screaming and flinging
blood
> all over the bathroom. She spanked me sharply and I immediately calmed
down.
> I was glad she did it.>>
>
> and the problem with having such strong emotions is????? Also the problem
> with having blood in the bathroom is???? So what, there's blood in the
> bathroom... Ah, just like another mother I know, maybe your mother didn't
> want to have to clean it up and all her control issues came to the
surface...
> Very classic Psychology 101,
>
> Dawn F
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>
>

Lynda

Perhaps one was hysterical because one had never been held to make the bad
go away. Kidlet #4 has been an accident that doesn't wait to happen since
birth. No hysteria when he slid down a slide and landed on glass that
ripped the sole of his foot open from toes to heel, he screamed for someone
to get his mom cause he knew mommy would fix it. Screaming or hysteria,
what's the difference, you ask, well, the difference is that he had to
scream to be heard over the noise in the park. Eldest son tipped over
using his bed for a trampoline and split his head open and hit a
spurter--blood all over the bed, walls, window. No hysteria, just a get
mom. #2 son split his eyebrow open (17 stitches) and didn't get
hysterical, just called for mommy to fix it. Oh, did I mention they were
all 4 and 5 years old.

And, I've never had any problem stopping hysteria by simply holding a child
tight and crooning to them, including those that weren't mine! I've also
seen just a loud voice work just fine.

Maybe too many folks have seen too many movies where the "hero" (yeah
right) slap the hysterical woman across the face to shut her up????

Lynda

----------
> From: NumoAstro@...
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spanking
> Date: Sunday, September 03, 2000 10:45 PM
>
>
> >>One time I was hysterical because my
> finger was profusely bleeding. I wouldn't stop screaming and flinging
blood
> all over the bathroom. She spanked me sharply and I immediately calmed
down.
> I was glad she did it.>>
>
> and the problem with having such strong emotions is????? Also the
problem
> with having blood in the bathroom is???? So what, there's blood in the
> bathroom... Ah, just like another mother I know, maybe your mother
didn't
> want to have to clean it up and all her control issues came to the
surface...
> Very classic Psychology 101,
>
> Dawn F
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>

Melissa Wood

I have been on this group for a while and have just read everyone's post and I
am appalled at what I have been reading. I joined to get ideas and help with
unschooling my child. Some of the name calling I have read is childish. I know
that everyone has different opinions on spanking and abuse. It is a very
difficult subject for everyone to discuss, but come on. As far as someone who
is a "hick" and someone can't believe they actually homeschool. As far as I am
concerned, the Lord has directed me to homeschool. You have to be an
intelligent, loving parent to want to stay home with your child and be in charge
of their future as far as working at McDonald's or as an attorney. To do such
an important and amazing thing, you are by far, not a "hick". To even decide to
do this, you are in a way, above others who don't. All of us on here care about
our children. I am not saying we are better than anyone else. We just love our
children. Therefore, this list should be a loving helpful group of friends who
talk about how there day is going and an occasional debate is fine, but this
name calling is for the public school system. We should all be there for each
other and help with the day to day problems of homeschooling. How would you
look to your kids if they got on here and read the name calling? Would you not
set such a sorry example for them? Just speaking my opinion. Tired of the junk
I am reading. Melissa



Valerie wrote:



>
> >>One time I was hysterical because my
> finger was profusely bleeding. I wouldn't stop screaming and flinging blood
> all over the bathroom. She spanked me sharply and I immediately calmed down.
> I was glad she did it.>>
>
> and the problem with having such strong emotions is????? Also the problem
> with having blood in the bathroom is???? So what, there's blood in the
> bathroom... Ah, just like another mother I know, maybe your mother didn't
> want to have to clean it up and all her control issues came to the
> surface...
> Very classic Psychology 101,
>
> Dawn F
>
> No, no, no.....you're not getting it. I was hysterical. I needed to hold
> still so she could stop the bleeding. I couldn't even hear her saying "Stop!
> Hold still!" over my own frightened screaming. (I cut myself trying to make
> lunch.) She gave me one simple stinging swat on the tush and it brought me
> back to earth. She didn't care about cleaning up the mess. She knew she
> needed to stop the bleeding. And she was certainly used to my strong
> emotions. If she had had a problem with that, I would have received a lot
> more than 3 spankings in my entire life. Not a control issue at all, unless
> you count first-aid as a control issue. The spanking was a simple attention
> getter. No ill effects and no therapy needed.
>
> ----Valerie
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
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> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/00 10:06:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lurine@... writes:

<< Maybe too many folks have seen too many movies where the "hero" (yeah
right) slap the hysterical woman across the face to shut her up????

Lynda
>>

That was the thought I had. I would never slap an adult to calm them down
and hitting a child for the same reason makes no more sense. If my child
were hysterical my first impulse would be to grab them and hold them while
comforting them with my words.

I've debated spanking a LOT over the last few years and I always see off the
wall scenarios, like this one, pulled out to justify hitting. It always make
me shake my head. It's like using the story of the Donner party to justify
having weekly barbecues to roast your neighbors.

Kris

Valerie

<< Maybe too many folks have seen too many movies where the "hero" (yeah
right) slap the hysterical woman across the face to shut her up????

Lynda
>>

That was the thought I had. I would never slap an adult to calm them down
and hitting a child for the same reason makes no more sense. If my child
were hysterical my first impulse would be to grab them and hold them while
comforting them with my words.

I've debated spanking a LOT over the last few years and I always see off the
wall scenarios, like this one, pulled out to justify hitting. It always
make
me shake my head. It's like using the story of the Donner party to justify
having weekly barbecues to roast your neighbors.

Kris

Now Kris....you know me. I didn't mention that scene to justify hitting.
There was no way my mother could have held me at that moment...I was way too
big and I was flailing around. She only spanked me because that was the
fastest, simplest way to shock me out of my hysteria and take care of my
bleeding finger. To me, this wasn't an "off the wall scenario". There have
been times when I had to firmly (and gently) take hold of my children to
calm them....there have been other times when a swat worked better. I do not
consider a swat on a behind as "hitting". I did not feel like I had been hit
by my mother. Again, I think calling it that trivializes actual hitting.

And I thought we cleared up all the cannibalism issues on back on
CCU...Valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/2000 10:06:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lurine@... writes:

>
> And, I've never had any problem stopping hysteria by simply holding a child
> tight and crooning to them, including those that weren't mine! I've also
> seen just a loud voice work just fine.
>

I have no problem with this solution to hysteria. In fact, I think it is
probably the best. I feel the need to add a couple thoughts to that,
however...one is that some of us are physically unable to hold a child that
is thrashing around. Even a single swat would take a great deal out of my
physically, but could be done much more easily in an emergency than
struggling to get physically get ahold of hysterical child.

Second, we don't always think of the best solution in the heat of the moment.
Sometimes any solution that works is as good as it gets.

I am very happy to see the holding suggestion, as it may help some of us
think of that at some future time when there is an emergency. But, I'm not
going to stand in judgment of anyone that has used a slap/spank to get the
attention of someone in the throes of hysteria.

(For the record, I'm not calling you or your post judgmental...just wanted to
make the above points. Thanks.)

FWIW,
Eiraul

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/00 4:31:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
valeries@... writes:

<< I do not
consider a swat on a behind as "hitting". I did not feel like I had been hit
by my mother. Again, I think calling it that trivializes actual hitting. >>
once again it is the same action....only spanking a child is socially
acceptable where as using the word hit (which is still the same action) is
not....

Julie

Valerie

<< I do not
consider a swat on a behind as "hitting". I did not feel like I had been
hit
by my mother. Again, I think calling it that trivializes actual hitting. >>
once again it is the same action....only spanking a child is socially
acceptable where as using the word hit (which is still the same action) is
not....

Julie

If spanking is so socially acceptable, why are we having this discussion?
You could draw this out to mean that clapping someone on the shoulder in
greeting is hitting. It's the same hand position. How about slapping someone
on the back if they're choking? Why isn't that hitting? Does the intent to
inflict pain have to exist? Then, if someone accidentally swings around and
whacks someone in the face, since the intent wasn't there, it _wasn't_
hitting? Do you see how this is getting us nowhere? Honestly, a hearty
handshake has hurt me much more than that swat my mother gave me.

---Valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/00 8:03:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
valeries@... writes:

<< If spanking is so socially acceptable, why are we having this discussion?
You could draw this out to mean that clapping someone on the shoulder in
greeting is hitting. It's the same hand position. How about slapping someone
on the back if they're choking? Why isn't that hitting? Does the intent to
inflict pain have to exist? Then, if someone accidentally swings around and
whacks someone in the face, since the intent wasn't there, it _wasn't_
hitting? Do you see how this is getting us nowhere? Honestly, a hearty
handshake has hurt me much more than that swat my mother gave me.

---Valerie >>

Some very good points, Valerie...

It is more socially acceptable to say "We spank our children" than it is to
say "we hit our children"....people think there is difference. However they
are the same action....
clapping someone on the back in greeting is hitting with a friendly intent.
There is not anything friendly about spanking/hitting no matter how good our
intentions are "to teach them an important lesson about the dangerous world
we live in."

Just thoughts....
Julie

Lynda

OMG, Kris, please put "spew" warnings on your posts. I just about sprayed
the monitor over the Donner party comment!

Lynda, who apologizes to everyone for being silly over a very serious
subject but the BBQ'd neighbors was too funny!

----------
> From: louisaem@...
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spanking
> Date: Monday, September 04, 2000 12:52 PM
>
> In a message dated 9/4/00 10:06:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> lurine@... writes:
>
> << Maybe too many folks have seen too many movies where the "hero" (yeah
> right) slap the hysterical woman across the face to shut her up????
>
> Lynda
> >>
>
> That was the thought I had. I would never slap an adult to calm them
down
> and hitting a child for the same reason makes no more sense. If my child

> were hysterical my first impulse would be to grab them and hold them
while
> comforting them with my words.
>
> I've debated spanking a LOT over the last few years and I always see off
the
> wall scenarios, like this one, pulled out to justify hitting. It always
make
> me shake my head. It's like using the story of the Donner party to
justify
> having weekly barbecues to roast your neighbors.
>
> Kris
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>

Lynda

Valerie the original comment had nothing to do with A swat but had to do
with pulling down a child's pants and hitting until the hitter's hand hurt.
Your comments came off as equating the swat you received as a
justification or understanding of how the other act was carried out.

Lynda

----------
> From: Valerie <valeries@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Spanking
> Date: Monday, September 04, 2000 1:33 PM
>
>
> << Maybe too many folks have seen too many movies where the "hero" (yeah
> right) slap the hysterical woman across the face to shut her up????
>
> Lynda
> >>
>
> That was the thought I had. I would never slap an adult to calm them
down
> and hitting a child for the same reason makes no more sense. If my child
> were hysterical my first impulse would be to grab them and hold them
while
> comforting them with my words.
>
> I've debated spanking a LOT over the last few years and I always see off
the
> wall scenarios, like this one, pulled out to justify hitting. It always
> make
> me shake my head. It's like using the story of the Donner party to
justify
> having weekly barbecues to roast your neighbors.
>
> Kris
>
> Now Kris....you know me. I didn't mention that scene to justify hitting.
> There was no way my mother could have held me at that moment...I was way
too
> big and I was flailing around. She only spanked me because that was the
> fastest, simplest way to shock me out of my hysteria and take care of my
> bleeding finger. To me, this wasn't an "off the wall scenario". There
have
> been times when I had to firmly (and gently) take hold of my children to
> calm them....there have been other times when a swat worked better. I do
not
> consider a swat on a behind as "hitting". I did not feel like I had been
hit
> by my mother. Again, I think calling it that trivializes actual hitting.
>
> And I thought we cleared up all the cannibalism issues on back on
> CCU...Valerie
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: [email protected]
> Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> List owner: [email protected]
> List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>