Kim

Hi Linda,
I am a new 'Unschooling' Mom as well! And I have had the same struggles
with the same issues too! I am interested in others opinions as well, but I
want to throw my 2 cents in here!

As for the internet and computer, we are all fighting for it, so we have
made the rule of 1 hour per person in concession! I must say, they learn a
lot from the internet! So I don't restrict that. And I trust them enough
to go to sites responsibly. We have discussed what sites are appropriate
and which ones aren't, and if they are in doubt, to ask me or their father
and/or to use their gut instinct (if it doesn't 'feel' right, don't go
there).

As for math. I am going to explain to my girls how important it is and
hopefully, they will want to learn it! I know my 14 yo will want to because
she is so afraid that she is not learning what she is supposed to anyway!
It is my 10 yo that I will have to convince! But I want it to be up to them
to have the responsibility to take the initiative. I don't know if my
approach will work, but we'll see! my 10 yo had to learn some math for her
Harry Potter website, because she is making recipes from the book, and she
is trying different recipes out. And in order to do that, she has to use a
lot of fractions, adding and subtracting fractions until she gets the recipe
right! I am trying to look for other opportunities for her to learn math
without it looking like a lesson!

I have had a personal tug-of-war about what bedtime to instill. My DH
believes that our 14 yo can set her own bedtime and I reluctantly agreed. At
first, she went to bed at midnight, 2 am at the latest, but she would be
very tired the next day and she has been getting to bed earlier on her own
now! We have given a little bit of leeway for our 10 yo, but she still has
a bedtime of 10:00, although we let her stay up later if she is doing
something important to her. I let them get up at whatever time they want,
but, they realize that if they get up too late, there is a lot that they
miss out on, sometimes a trip! If I go somewhere and they are not up, they
do not get to go! Of course when I tell them the night before I am going
somewhere, or we have a homeschooling group meeting, they do go to sleep
earlier. I have also taught them about our Circadian rhythms and how it can
get irregular and make you feel lousy when it is messed up by going to bed
at different times. And in the summer, when it gets hot early, if they are
not up when it is cool, they miss out on gardening which they love! I
guess, this a lesson in responsibility.

Just relax and we will all get through this together!

Kim


From: "linda loux" <starshine_lal@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 745
>
> I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curious
> about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
> ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
> SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum
from
> Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of
coercing.
> They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling
(again)
> and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are
ever
> going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
> will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
> etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
> just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I
think
> I need a pep talk...
>
>

linda loux

HERE IS A TECHNICAL QUESTION:I'm a "newbie" so after I read the posted
messages and want to respond to someone else's response to me, do I click on
"REPLY" as I did this time, or "POST MESSAGE" (at the beginning). I want it
to be posted as a response to them, but thought that if I click THEIR E-MAIL
ADDRESS, it would just go to them and not be posted...(Yes, I am a "newbie"
to this computer stuff too!)Please enlighten me, someone with a good heart.

Now, I want to respond to the person at braunville@... who so
generously shared with me about my questions on SET BED TIMES, COMPUTER-USE
LIMITS and MATH (to force or not to force).

Thank you! Your sharing about child #1 was especially helpful to me. Neither
of my ds are at all interested in math and never have enjoyed it. I
definitely need to "learn to relax" as you put it and mellow out about
it.They know we have their next Saxon math books; I'll just not say anything
and see what ever happens, I guess. We do include basic math that comes up
in everyday life, of course, but that is very basic adding, sub,mult, and
div. and their math books took them beyond that acouple of yrs. ago...

Also, a question: WHAT IS "AOL'S FILTER" FOR THE INTERNET AND HOW DO I GET
THAT AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST? We just got our computer and have no
"filter".

>From: [email protected]
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 746
>Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:42:32 -0000
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
>Unsubscribe: [email protected]
>List owner: [email protected]
>List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 14 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Behavior Question
> From: NumoAstro@...
> 2. Dads and Unschooling
> From: NumoAstro@...
> 3. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: "aworthen" <aworthen@...>
> 4. Re: Not starting school
> From: cen46624@...
> 5. Re: Not starting school
> From: "aworthen" <aworthen@...>
> 6. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: ecsamhill@...
> 7. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> 8. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
> 9. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: cen46624@...
> 10. Re: Dads and Unschooling
> From: "Ashling Ranch" <Ashling@...>
> 11. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 12. RE: Dads and Unschooling
> From: "Valerie" <valeries@...>
> 13. Re: Digest Number 745
> From: "linda loux" <starshine_lal@...>
> 14. Re: Digest Number 745
> From: braunville@...
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:45:14 EDT
> From: NumoAstro@...
>Subject: Behavior Question
>
>In a message dated 8/27/2000 2:48:15 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
><< on the behavior issues -- so far so good! I guess I have been doing
> the Love and Logic >>
>
>Hi Michelle in DE
>
>What's Love and Logic... I've missed a few digests as we were away and
>decided I had too many e-mails to read so deleted a whole bunch...
>
>Dawn F
>Tucson, AZ
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:47:49 EDT
> From: NumoAstro@...
>Subject: Dads and Unschooling
>
>In a message dated 8/27/2000 2:48:15 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
><< But wouldn't it be so much more
> productive if we could bring these guys around sooner? >>
>
>My husband keeps on saying "why is this so women oriented, do the dads have
>a
>night out together" (because our group meets once a month for coffee at a
>bookstore and it's all women)...
>
>My hubbie and I are in the process of switching roles and we did this once
>before. Women treated him like he was going to drop the baby and that he
>was
>"babysitting" and he's not looking forward to those comments again. Ahhh
>the
>real world that we live in.
>
>Dawn F
>Tucson, AZ
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:02:34 -0400
> From: "aworthen" <aworthen@...>
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <NumoAstro@...>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:47 AM
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dads and Unschooling
>
>do the dads have a
> > night out together" (because our group meets once a month for coffee at
>a
> > bookstore and it's all women)...
>
>You might make the suggestion to your group that they do a parents night
>out
>rather than a moms night out. Our group does this and it works out great.
>Amy
>Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:14:13 EDT
> From: cen46624@...
>Subject: Re: Not starting school
>
>Wow! What a neat idea! (Both the taping and the pulling from school because
>of it) That is really neat.
>
>:-) Diane
>
> > When they went to school I always video taped
> > them on this day, getting on the bus, and then telling me how the first
>day
> > went. That tape was a big motivator in the decision to pull them out of
> > school when I looked back at the changes over the years-from a
>wonderful
> > family that you would love to know, to a bunch of rude brats
>interrupting
> > each other. Maybe I will tape again tomorrow to see what a difference
>there
> > is now.
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:21:57 -0400
> From: "aworthen" <aworthen@...>
>Subject: Re: Not starting school
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <cen46624@...>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:14 AM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Not starting school
>
>Our hsing group has a not back to school picnic the day after labor day
>every year. lots of fun!
>Amy
>Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:04:12 EDT
> From: ecsamhill@...
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>
>In a message dated 8/27/2000 1:48:49 PM, NumoAstro@... writes:
>
><<My husband keeps on saying "why is this so women oriented, do the dads
>have
>a
>night out together" (because our group meets once a month for coffee at a
>bookstore and it's all women)... >>
>
>Does unschooling.com have a posting area for dads, or is that the HEM
>boards?
>
>Betsy
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:05:29 -0500
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>Well, we can make one lickety-split. :)
>
>LisaKK
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ecsamhill@... <ecsamhill@...>
>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dads and Unschooling
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 8/27/2000 1:48:49 PM, NumoAstro@... writes:
> >
> ><<My husband keeps on saying "why is this so women oriented, do the dads
>have
> >a
> >night out together" (because our group meets once a month for coffee at a
> >bookstore and it's all women)... >>
> >
> >Does unschooling.com have a posting area for dads, or is that the HEM
>boards?
> >
> >Betsy
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >Addresses:
> >Post message: [email protected]
> >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> >List owner: [email protected]
> >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:31:24 -0500
> From: "LisaKK" <LisaBugg@...>
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>Unschooling Dads! is now open for business. <G> It's the 4th folder on the
>list. I hope all the long term unschooling dads here on this list will at
>least say hi, as many newbies come to our boards The men seem very
>reluctant to post. Hearing your collective voices would be an awesome
>thing
>for those searching for information.
>
>LisaKK
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ecsamhill@... <ecsamhill@...>
>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dads and Unschooling
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 8/27/2000 1:48:49 PM, NumoAstro@... writes:
> >
> ><<My husband keeps on saying "why is this so women oriented, do the dads
>have
> >a
> >night out together" (because our group meets once a month for coffee at a
> >bookstore and it's all women)... >>
> >
> >Does unschooling.com have a posting area for dads, or is that the HEM
>boards?
> >
> >Betsy
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >Addresses:
> >Post message: [email protected]
> >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> >List owner: [email protected]
> >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:56:26 EDT
> From: cen46624@...
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>Boy-O-Boy Lisa! That WAS lickety-split!
>
> > Unschooling Dads! is now open for business. <G> It's the 4th folder on
>the
> > list. I hope all the long term unschooling dads here on this list will
>at
> > least say hi, as many newbies come to our boards The men seem very
> > reluctant to post. Hearing your collective voices would be an awesome
>thing
> > for those searching for information.
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:07:26 -0500
> From: "Ashling Ranch" <Ashling@...>
>Subject: Re: Dads and Unschooling
>
>Lisa, et al.,
>
> As a collateral cultural issue, have you ever noticed how publications
>like "Parents Magazine" and others tend to assume that parenting is done by
>Moms. Look at the advertisements in that mag. Admittedly, I haven't
>looked
>at one in a while, but the last time I did I think the percentage of ads
>not
>addressed to Moms was MAYBE 10%. I finally stopped reading it.
>
>John
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: cen46624@... <cen46624@...>
>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Dads and Unschooling
>
>
> >Boy-O-Boy Lisa! That WAS lickety-split!
> >
> >> Unschooling Dads! is now open for business. <G> It's the 4th folder on
>the
> >> list. I hope all the long term unschooling dads here on this list
>will
>at
> >> least say hi, as many newbies come to our boards The men seem very
> >> reluctant to post. Hearing your collective voices would be an awesome
> >thing
> >> for those searching for information.
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >Addresses:
> >Post message: [email protected]
> >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> >List owner: [email protected]
> >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:46:11 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
>
>Cathie,
>What a neat tradition, watching the school bus go by....
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:04:54 -0700
> From: "Valerie" <valeries@...>
>Subject: RE: Dads and Unschooling
>
> As a collateral cultural issue, have you ever noticed how publications
>like "Parents Magazine" and others tend to assume that parenting is done by
>Moms. Look at the advertisements in that mag. Admittedly, I haven't
>looked
>at one in a while, but the last time I did I think the percentage of ads
>not
>addressed to Moms was MAYBE 10%. I finally stopped reading it.
>
>John
>
>Hi John....you're not missing anything by not reading "Parents" or
>"Parenting"....Try Home Education Magazine if you haven't already. They
>always seem to have a few articles written by or about dads.
>
>---Valerie
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:15:05 GMT
> From: "linda loux" <starshine_lal@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 745
>
>I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curious
>about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
>ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
>SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum
>from
>Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of
>coercing.
>They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling
>(again)
>and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are
>ever
>going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
>will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
>etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
>just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I
>think
>I need a pep talk...
>
>
> >From: [email protected]
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 745
> >Date: 27 Aug 2000 09:47:22 -0000
> >
> >
> >Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> >Addresses:
> >Post message: [email protected]
> >Unsubscribe: [email protected]
> >List owner: [email protected]
> >List settings page: http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >There are 13 messages in this issue.
> >
> >Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 2. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 3. Re: Newbie /David's schedule
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 4. Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> > From: mommiesapp@...
> > 5. Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 6. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> > From: Cararmst@...
> > 7. Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> > From: Cararmst@...
> > 8. Re: (hubby influn)- was Rebellion
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 9. Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> > 10. Re: Lefty Mouse
> > From: cen46624@...
> > 11. Fw: TOY DEATH ROW MARV
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> > 12. Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> > From: "Corallyn " <hape2day@...>
> > 13. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> > From: "Cathie _" <cathie_98@...>
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:59:46 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> >
> >cool carron,
> >
> >I enjoyed your post soooooo much. Thanks! I will check out the website
> >during naps....
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:13:40 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> >
> >my hubby and I haven't really discussed homeschooling/unschooling
> >philosophy's as of yet ( our oldest is 3). But after much discussion on
> >all
> >the other decisions we have made it comes over to my way of thinking.....
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:15:12 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: Newbie /David's schedule
> >
> >David,
> >Good Luck and hope to hear from you again.....
> >
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:57:23 EDT
> > From: mommiesapp@...
> >Subject: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> >
> >In a message dated 8/26/00 5:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >[email protected] writes:
> >
> ><< I got tired of
> > switching them and started using my right hand for the mouse or I
> > would use my lefthand and had to remember not to use my index finger
> > to click with. >>
> >
> >
> >OH MY! I just realized that whenever my dd does play on the computer we
> >make
> >her use the mouse just as it is!! I NEVER thought about changing the
> >buttons!! Wow, I guess I'll have to change the mouse and see if there is
>a
> >difference?! DD does eat, write, and do MOST tasks with her left hand
>but
> >I've noticed she throw with her right hand (quite well) and I guess she
> >also
> >uses the mouse with her right -- I'll have to let you know what happens
>if
> >she uses the left with the mouse.
> >
> >Again, thanks to all who are responding -- the more I read and listen to
> >all
> >of you the more confident I am becoming about the hschooling endeavor. I
> >am
> >looking into a support group in my area (DE).
> >
> >Carron, on the behavior issues -- so far so good! I guess I have been
> >doing
> >the Love and Logic thing *correctly* but I am guessing it is just going
>to
> >take some time. I only started implementing the whole L&L ideas in
>January
> >of this year. Also, late that same month my ds was born so we were ALL
> >adjusting to life with a newborn. I'll keep up the choices and
> >implementing
> >my own if she doesn't make a choice. Now, I just have to work on REALLY
> >keeping my voice calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a screamer
>and
> >I
> >think I REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!) Also, the Library thinks
> >they
> >may have the book which they got from the interlibrary loan service -- a
> >local college apparently has or will have several copies of the Toddler
> >book
> >you referred to -- I am really looking forward to reading it!
> >
> >Thanks for the support and advice!
> >
> >Michelle in DE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:22:43 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> >
> >In a message dated 8/25/00 10:56:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >Cararmst@... writes:
> >
> ><< Do you make the choice for them? What are the consequences of their
> >refusal
> > to choose?
> > >>
> >yes, I do make the choice after a couple of times...I don't think she has
> >made the connection just yet....
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 6
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:27:14 EDT
> > From: Cararmst@...
> >Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> >
> >In a message dated 8/26/2000 7:14:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >Jaam1224@... writes:
> >
> > > my hubby and I haven't really discussed homeschooling/unschooling
> > > philosophy's as of yet ( our oldest is 3). But after much discussion
> >on
> >all
> > >
> > > the other decisions we have made it comes over to my way of
> >thinking.....
> > >
> > > Julie
> >
> >
> >LOL. Were you a debater in school?
> >
> >My husband observed after the last unschooling conference that we went to
> >that homeschooling, the research into it, the websites, the books, the
> >conferences, the support groups, are overwhelmingly feminine in nature.
> >That's completely understandable since moms are the primary
>homeschoolers.
> >He sees in talking with other hs dads, that there is often the attitude
> >that
> >homeschooling is the mom's job, and that the dad may have some concerns
> >about
> >it, but if she's willing to commit to it, he's willing to "give it a
>try".
> >But, they often take a wait and see attitude. Then, as time progresses,
> >and
> >the dad sees that the children and mom are happy, productive people, that
> >the
> >kids are learning and they won't be social misfits, he "comes around" and
> >becomes an advocate.
> >
> >This happened with my husband, too. But wouldn't it be so much more
> >productive if we could bring these guys around sooner? We could save so
> >much
> >emotional energy if we didn't have to deal with our
>job--homeschooling--and
> >with our partner's doubts, too.
> >
> >Carron
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 7
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:39:18 EDT
> > From: Cararmst@...
> >Subject: Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> >
> >In a message dated 8/26/2000 7:58:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >mommiesapp@... writes:
> >
> > > Also, late that same month my ds was born so we were ALL
> > > adjusting to life with a newborn.
> >
> >Wow, Michelle, that turns everybody upside down! It is so hard dealing
> >with
> >a new baby and your other child's behavioral issues at the same time!
> >Especially when I bet a lot of those behaviors are a direct result of
> >having
> >the new baby in the house. I promise things will get better. But it
>will
> >take time and consistency.
> >
> > > Now, I just have to work on REALLY
> > > keeping my voice calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a
>screamer
> >and
> >I
> > >
> > > think I REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!)
> >
> >That's my biggest problem, too. I really have to pay attention to my
> >voice,
> >even now. There are still times when my son tries my patience -- that
>will
> >never go away, I'm sure -- but it has gotten easier. Even if a calm
>voice
> >is not second nature, I've tried to make it a habit to stop and think
> >before
> >I say anything (the old count to 10 trick).
> >
> > > Also, the Library thinks they
> > >
> > > may have the book which they got from the interlibrary loan service
>--
> >a
> > > local college apparently has or will have several copies of the
>Toddler
> >book
> > >
> > > you referred to -- I am really looking forward to reading it!
> > >
> > > Thanks for the support and advice!
> >
> >You're welcome. I really believe in Love and Logic, and I know that with
> >consistency, it works. You guys are going through a really trying time,
> >right now. But, as the bible says, this too shall pass. If you have any
> >questions or problems, I can give you some ideas to try. Just let me
>know.
> >
> >Carron
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 8
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:03:39 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: (hubby influn)- was Rebellion
> >
> >No I wasn't a debator in school....I am too open minded (wiht the
> >exceptions
> >of a few things). I can be swayed too often....I just have tons of
> >influences with my hubby (lucky me!)
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 9
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:05:50 EDT
> > From: Jaam1224@...
> >Subject: Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> >
> >Carron,
> >I love your post, please pass on your thoughts .....
> >
> >Julie
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 10
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:41:36 EDT
> > From: cen46624@...
> >Subject: Re: Lefty Mouse
> >
> >My dh is a lefty, and now the whole family uses the mouse on the left
>side
> >of
> >the computer, but the buttons are set up the standard way, so no one has
>to
> >relearn mouse use when they use another computer.
> >
> >:-) Diane
> >
> >
> > > OH MY! I just realized that whenever my dd does play on the computer
>we
> > > make her use the mouse just as it is!! I NEVER thought about changing
> >the
> > > buttons!! Wow, I guess I'll have to change the mouse and see if
>there
> >is
> >a
> > > difference?! DD does eat, write, and do MOST tasks with her left
>hand
> >but
> > > I've noticed she throw with her right hand (quite well) and I guess
>she
> >also
> > > uses the mouse with her right -- I'll have to let you know what
>happens
> >if
> > > she uses the left with the mouse.
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 11
> > Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:55:45 -0700
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> >Subject: Fw: TOY DEATH ROW MARV
> >
> >I thought we had hit bottom on the sick behavior in this world but I
>guess
> >I'll have to rethink that!
> >
> >Lynda
> >
> >----------
> > > Here is a description by Michelle Malkin in the St. Louis
> > > Post-Dispatch: Death Row Marv is "a half-foot-tall replica
> > > of a
> > > violent character created by surly graphic artist Frank
> > > Miller.... He comes with "the chair, wired helmet,
> > > floorboards
> > > and electrocuting switch." For $23.95, you, too, can
> > > purchase
> > > the "deluxe box set" and share the cheap thrill of
> > > executing a
> > > murderer: "Feel the burn as the electric buzz fills the
> > > room and
> > > he starts to shake and convulse," an ad promotion for
> > > Death Row
> > > Marv beckons. "Experience the pain as the shaking
> > > continues and
> > > his eyes start to glow bright red. Enjoy the torment as he
> > > utters his famous last words, 'Is that the best you can
> > > do, you
> > > pansies?' "
> > >
> > > Further information: Pat@...
> > >
> > > From: drf21 <drf21@...>
> > > Subject: Withdraw "Death Row Marv" Dolls
> > >
> > > Dear McFarlane Toys:
> > >
> > > Death Row Marv is unbelievably vulgar and gross. It
> > > appeals to
> > > brutal tendencies and callously attempts to portray the
> > > tragedy
> > > of taking human life as humorous.
> > >
> > > Please withdraw this insensitive, coarse "toy" from the
> > > market
> > > at once.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > drf21
> > > xxxxxxxxxxxx Road
> > > xxxxxx, TX xxxxxx
> > >
> > > If you approve, letters to the following officials will be
> > > individually written and sent. They address the official
> > > by name
> > > at least once and may contain information specific to that
> > > official and this letter.
> > >
> > > McFarlane Toys <stevethevictim@...>,
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 12
> > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:58:51 -0000
> > From: "Corallyn " <hape2day@...>
> >Subject: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> >
> >--- In [email protected], mommiesapp@c... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 8/26/00 5:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [email protected] writes:
> > >
> > > Carron, on the behavior issues -- so far so good! I guess I have
> >been doing the Love and Logic thing *correctly* but I am guessing it
> >is just going to take some time. I only started implementing the
> >whole L&L ideas in January of this year. Also, late that same month
> >my ds was born so we were ALL adjusting to life with a newborn.
> >I'll keep up the choices and implementing my own if she doesn't make
> >a choice. Now, I just have to work on REALLY keeping my voice
> >calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a screamer and I think I
> >REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!)
> > >
> >
> >
> >I can relate REALLY well to this. I naturally have a loud voice since
> >birth. I was a screamer as an infant. I was so loud that people would
> >move away from my parents when they sat down at church. I am also the
> >second of six children. It got pretty loud around the house with so
> >many kids. It has taken me most of my adult life to hear that I am
> >talking louder than everyone else. Now that I have kids, I realize
> >that when I am frustrated my volum rises, again. I have learned that
> >keeping the radio and t.v. down or off helps a lot. I have also
> >learned that when I am REALLY upset with the children to use a softer
> >calmer voice. You can almost tell how irritated I am by how calm and
> >controled my voice is. It is when things are calm around here that I
> >tend to lose control of my volum. I am still working on the control
> >in those frustrating times though. Think I always will. Corallyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 13
> > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:12:21 GMT
> > From: "Cathie _" <cathie_98@...>
> >Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> >
> > >my dh became an adamant
> > >unschooler. Something clicked. He came away telling me that kids
> > >shouldn't
> > >even think about academics until they're twelve, that the body of
> >knowledge
> > >is changing so rapidly we can't possibly to hope to learn what we need
>to
> > >know in school or even homeschooling with a curriculum, that our kids
> >will
> > >learn what they need to when they need to -- period!.
> >
> >
> >Your husband has de-schooled. Isn't it great how it works! When I started
> >out I had all these wonderful plans for unit studies that I thought would
> >be
> >fun, and interesting, and could incorporate all the usual school subjects
> >into one topic. It didn't take me long to find out that what sounded fun
> >and
> >interesting to me might sound dumb and boring to the kids. Or, more
>likely,
> >it would appeal to one kid, but not the others. So, after a few months of
> >trying to force people to participate in all my carefully planned fun, I
> >began my own de-schooling too.
> >
> >Now, though, after two years, it seems that the kids would like to do
>some
> >of the things that I threw out. Now that they are truly free to learn
>what
> >they want, they do want to learn. Now they will put the effort into it,
>and
> >seem to be able to appreciate each others contributions and interests.
>So,
> >we may do a unit. This time, however, it won't be me planning it all out
> >and
> >telling them what they are to do.
> >
> >School starts in our district tomorrow. We traditionally have breakfast
>in
> >our garden and watch the bus pass by. We celebrate our freedom and do a
> >little thinking and talking about where we want to go with school this
>year
> >and what we would like to do. When they went to school I always video
>taped
> >them on this day, getting on the bus, and then telling me how the first
>day
> >went. That tape was a big motivator in the decision to pull them out of
> >school when I looked back at the changes over the years-from a wonderful
> >family that you would love to know, to a bunch of rude brats interrupting
> >each other. Maybe I will tape again tomorrow to see what a difference
>there
> >is now.
> >
> >Cathie
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>http://profiles.msn.com
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:16:43 EDT
> From: braunville@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 745
>
>In a message dated 8/27/2000 11:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>starshine_lal@... writes:
>
> > I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am
>curious
> > about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED
>vs.
> > ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the
>computer/internet:
> > SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT?
>
>Depends on the needs of the family and the child(ren), IMO. One of our
>main
>reasons to stay away from the ps thing is to have more control over our
>personal lives and better time to spend together as a family. In our
>family,
>we all live by Dad's schedule because he is the one with a schedule set by
>outside influences (work). DH has worked rotating shift work most of our
>lives. When he's on a night shift he would totally miss any family time if
>we stick to a strict bedtime routine, especially when he works a swing
>shift.
> Our ps routine for swing shift WAS: Dad comes home from work after
>midnight, sleeps until 9 or 10, by which time children have gone off to
>school; dad would go to work just before children return from school and
>children were in bed before dad returned from work. YUCK! (Just one of
>the
>many reasons we homeschool!) Now, we all shift schedules according to
>Dad's
>work schedule. (although it is a little hard for the family to do the
>midnight to 7 a.m. routine, so we compromise as needed!)
>
>I also think it depends on the needs of the child. We have health problems
>in our family which are exacerbated by disrupted sleep routines. So, when
>someone is in a health flare, it becomes important that there be some
>routine
>to encourage good sleep patterns. Also, I can't sleep knowing there are
>children up and about. It's more a matter of wanting to be there/be
>involved
>with them than lack of trust. Since I'm most often the one with health
>problems, my sleep needs take precedent over kid's schedule. OTOH if
>someone
>else has a bigger/stronger need, we adjust.
>
>The family time is most important to us. We don't really care when the
>family sleeps, but we have better quality of life and family time if we are
>all on a similar schedule. Our friends and extended family have learned to
>not call at 8 a.m. and that they may catch us napping mid-afternoon, and
>I've
>learned to turn the phone off until I'm up in the morning! They've also
>learned that if they need to talk to someone at 2 a.m., the odds are really
>good that I'm up.
>
>It is my opinion that, as the parent, I have the responsibility to monitor
>the health conditions of my children and insist on a bedtime that is best
>for
>the individual and the family, as needed. I would definitely not be
>comfortable having kids up until who knows when. Having people up and
>about
>during sleep hours is not much of an issue because, regardless of which
>schedule we are currently on, we have a bedtime routine which includes
>reading, cuddling, family time and tucking in kidlet who is about to turn
>12,
>but not about to give up that routine(!).
>
>If someone has a hard time going to sleep at the designated hour, we
>encourage reading or other quiet activity. Especially when we are having
>to
>switch from one schedule to another. (I would probably be a family bed
>spokesperson if everyone else's snoring didn't keep me awake. But that's
>almost a different topic.)
>
>This has probably not been an answer that's helpful for you, except to
>point
>out that the needs of each family differ. (What a long-winded way to say:
>Do
>what is best for you and your family. <bg> )
>
>As for limiting usage of computer/internet (or computer games). Again, it
>depends. I'm protective of where on the net my children go, so we use
>AOL's
>filter and also ask children to let us know when they are on the internet.
>Plus, I hang out with them enough that it is not difficult for me to steer
>them a different direction if I don't like where they are.
>
>I have found we sometimes need to limit the time on the computer or using
>video games due to general crabbiness. IMO, too much time in front of any
>electronic media has the same effect as too much time in front of TV or
>stuffed behind a school desk...brain wave coma. (Quickly recognizable by
>the
>loss of ability to hear mom's voice and the vacant stares when you actually
>get them to look your way! LOL) We don't have fast rules about how much
>is
>too much, but watch our children's behavior and let that be our guide.
>
>As for math, we still use Saxon. I love math and have no trouble getting
>DS
>to be enthusiastic about the subject. We love the scientific aspects of it
>and multiplying fractions is just the sort of topic our brain waves enjoy.
>(sometimes comes in handy for solving video or puzzle game problems, too.)
>
>When it's time for SAT's or college placement tests, they'll either learn
>the
>subject quickly in order to move on and meet their goal, or they'll take
>remedial classes/find a tutor to get what they need when they need it. So,
>either method works. We use a hybrid: Use a textbook, but without
>strictly
>following the outline/schedule and look for opportunities to explore math
>concepts in daily living.
>
>If it helps any, I have 2 child-units. One is an adult now. We unschooled
>pretty thoroughly from about age 15 on (read: could NOT get the kid to do
>any 'school' work and eventually gave up with the theory that saving our
>relationship with him was more important than cramming the 'necessary'
>school
>work into his rebellious brain!) The stinker went on to take his GED after
>5
>years of no formal school work, refused to study with a GED study guide or
>look at any text books in order to prepare for the test, passed the GED
>test
>with flying colors the first try, has taken college courses, started his
>own
>family and has since gone on to become an electrician apprenticeship. I
>count that as success.
>
>He learned what he needed when he was ready for it. Waiting only helped
>him
>to be more ready for it. I learned to relax the hard way! We do things
>much
>differently for the younger son. (That's the cool thing about 10 years
>between kids, there is lots of time to analyze parenting decisions and
>learn
>for the second son.) Luckily for us, the older one is so stubborn. <bg>
>
>FWIW
>Eiraul
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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aworthen

----- Original Message -----
From: linda loux <starshine_lal@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 746

Hit reply if you want the list to read your response. To send a private emil
hit new mail and type in the person's addy. You may also want to learn how
to cut and paste so the whole previous digest doesn't get posted again. this
computer stuff can be confusing. Spend lots of time doing hands on stuff.
Two years ago, I couldn't even turn one on. Now I can't seem to turn it off
:-)

Amy
Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/28/2000 6:32:55 PM, sinclai@... writes:

<<As for math. I am going to explain to my girls how important it is and
hopefully, they will want to learn it! I know my 14 yo will want to because
she is so afraid that she is not learning what she is supposed to anyway!
It is my 10 yo that I will have to convince! >>

I've heard stats that women who study math all the way through calculus, make
as much money as men, whereas women on average still make about 70 cents on
the dollar compared to men's salaries.

Betsy :-)

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/28/00 5:46:06 AM, [email protected] writes:

<< 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? >>

i think a lot of this depends on the parent at home and their style. i, as
the parent managing the home, need to set some rules for my sanity and
happiness. i dont pretend that i am not controlling the situation, i am
choosing to set limits in these areas bc when i havent things go from bad to
worse -- for me! meaning, i get discouraged or down when things are too
chaotic. and my kids get cranky. everyone has to quiet down around here
pretty early, and rise not too late. i have discovered that this is
something i prefer for our family, bc everybody needs to do their part to
keep things rolling. (we need this one to empty the dw, another needs to
move their laundry, etc.) everyone does have space of their own, tho, so as
they get older i have had no problem with extending bedtime when their
daytime behavior doesnt suffer because of it... it is more of an agreement wi
th the older ones what is reasonable for bedtime. for computer time i ask
them for a balance. i dont do well with oversaturation of any one thing, so
if they are reasonable about it, they are free to do it... i am sure it is
partly due to our growing family (7 in our house now) that we need these
certain relied upon things... there are many things outside of our control!
(baby or toddler or preschooler needs...)
erin

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/28/00 5:46:06 AM, [email protected] writes:

<< LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are ever
going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later >>

i think you started to hit it on the head at the end of your post, really we
each have to look at what we want for our childrens education experience. if
it is important to us, or to our children, to take the SAT, then we should
incorporate preparation for that at some point. i think it is a matter of
philosophy about why we are homeschooling, which is individual for each of
us. if we want freedom for the children to NOT be coerced, then there are
ways to find out that they are learning mathmatical concepts in everyday
life. or allowing them to see for themselves that they want to have this
knowledge as they go thru life, or in order to get some particular place (and
then they decide to put themselves thru the paces.) otoh, if we want to
direct their learning more, and are not comfortable waiting, we may require
some math be done. to me, it is in the way we see our families homeschooling
philosophy that would answer that question...

erin

Corallyn

--- In [email protected], MorelFam@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/28/00 5:46:06 AM, Unschooling-
[email protected] writes:
>
> << 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
> ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the
computer/internet:
> SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? >>
>
> i think a lot of this depends on the parent at home and their
style. i, as the parent managing the home, need to set some rules for
my sanity and happiness. i dont pretend that i am not controlling
the situation, i am choosing to set limits in these areas bc when i
havent things go from bad to worse -- for me
>

I am the same way. As much as I love the time I spend with my
children, I also need those few hours alone in the evening. DH works
nights and I enjoy the time to myself, I wouldn't get it otherwise.
When I was working I also needed time to come home and just veg for a
few hours and unwind from the day. With 3 under the age of 6 and one
on the way it is important for me to get some adult interaction even
if it is watching something on t.v. that is more my age level. Blues
Clues 5X a day can drive a person insane. Also, the 3 and 5 yo love
to play games and it is difficult with the 17mo running about trying
to include himself in his own way. I have started putting him to bed
around 7-7:30. That way I can play some games with the 3 and 5yo just
before bedtime. We will either read or play Boggle, Jr., Memory,
Alphabet Bingo, Shutes and Ladders or they can watch a short video.
We have some that are animated bible stories and only 30 min. They
are great for a calm evening before bed time. Then around 8-8:30,
depending on when the baby went to sleep and how long he has actually
been asleep, they go to bed and I take turns snuggling with them
talking about their day, singing and just getting them settled in
their beds. Usually by about 9 they are calm enough to stay in bed
and fall asleep on their own and I can have a nice hot bubble bath
and read email or veg in front of the t.v. or read or whatever else I
decide to do. I do have a hard time when DH is off though. It tends
to mess up our schedule. His idea of putting the kids to bed is
sitting with them infront of the t.v. until they fall asleep. I don't
like this though because I have found that after a few weeks of this,
the kids either will stay up till all hours watching t.v. until I
finally come in and say it is time to get into bed (sometime this is
as late as midnight or 1 a.m.) or they just refuse to go to bed.
Either way it ends up interfering with the rest of the week's bedtime
schedule and DH doesn't seem to understand this. He just knows that
he wants to spend some time with the children. I guess part of the
problem is that he is the type that has to have the t.v. on to relax.
I on the other hand rarely have it on, except in the evening after
the kids are in bed. He is getting better about it though. I can come
in and say, "Let's play a game. Do you want to join us, DH?" and he
half the time he will turn off the t.v. and play the game with us at
bed time. It is a constant battle though. Do I give in and eventually
give up the few hours I have for myself or do I be a stick in the mud
about the bedtime routine 7 days a week. I have found that if I do
give up my few hours to myself it affects the way I interact and
respond to the children. Corallyn