Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 745
linda loux
I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curious
about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum from
Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of coercing.
They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling (again)
and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are ever
going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I think
I need a pep talk...
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about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum from
Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of coercing.
They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling (again)
and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are ever
going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I think
I need a pep talk...
>From: [email protected]_________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 745
>Date: 27 Aug 2000 09:47:22 -0000
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>Addresses:
>Post message: [email protected]
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 13 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 2. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 3. Re: Newbie /David's schedule
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 4. Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> From: mommiesapp@...
> 5. Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 6. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> From: Cararmst@...
> 7. Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> From: Cararmst@...
> 8. Re: (hubby influn)- was Rebellion
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 9. Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> From: Jaam1224@...
> 10. Re: Lefty Mouse
> From: cen46624@...
> 11. Fw: TOY DEATH ROW MARV
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> 12. Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
> From: "Corallyn " <hape2day@...>
> 13. Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
> From: "Cathie _" <cathie_98@...>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:59:46 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
>
>cool carron,
>
>I enjoyed your post soooooo much. Thanks! I will check out the website
>during naps....
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:13:40 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
>
>my hubby and I haven't really discussed homeschooling/unschooling
>philosophy's as of yet ( our oldest is 3). But after much discussion on
>all
>the other decisions we have made it comes over to my way of thinking.....
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:15:12 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Newbie /David's schedule
>
>David,
>Good Luck and hope to hear from you again.....
>
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:57:23 EDT
> From: mommiesapp@...
>Subject: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
>
>In a message dated 8/26/00 5:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
><< I got tired of
> switching them and started using my right hand for the mouse or I
> would use my lefthand and had to remember not to use my index finger
> to click with. >>
>
>
>OH MY! I just realized that whenever my dd does play on the computer we
>make
>her use the mouse just as it is!! I NEVER thought about changing the
>buttons!! Wow, I guess I'll have to change the mouse and see if there is a
>difference?! DD does eat, write, and do MOST tasks with her left hand but
>I've noticed she throw with her right hand (quite well) and I guess she
>also
>uses the mouse with her right -- I'll have to let you know what happens if
>she uses the left with the mouse.
>
>Again, thanks to all who are responding -- the more I read and listen to
>all
>of you the more confident I am becoming about the hschooling endeavor. I
>am
>looking into a support group in my area (DE).
>
>Carron, on the behavior issues -- so far so good! I guess I have been
>doing
>the Love and Logic thing *correctly* but I am guessing it is just going to
>take some time. I only started implementing the whole L&L ideas in January
>of this year. Also, late that same month my ds was born so we were ALL
>adjusting to life with a newborn. I'll keep up the choices and
>implementing
>my own if she doesn't make a choice. Now, I just have to work on REALLY
>keeping my voice calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a screamer and
>I
>think I REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!) Also, the Library thinks
>they
>may have the book which they got from the interlibrary loan service -- a
>local college apparently has or will have several copies of the Toddler
>book
>you referred to -- I am really looking forward to reading it!
>
>Thanks for the support and advice!
>
>Michelle in DE
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:22:43 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Love and Logic (was Questions from a Newbie!)
>
>In a message dated 8/25/00 10:56:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>Cararmst@... writes:
>
><< Do you make the choice for them? What are the consequences of their
>refusal
> to choose?
> >>
>yes, I do make the choice after a couple of times...I don't think she has
>made the connection just yet....
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:27:14 EDT
> From: Cararmst@...
>Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
>
>In a message dated 8/26/2000 7:14:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
>Jaam1224@... writes:
>
> > my hubby and I haven't really discussed homeschooling/unschooling
> > philosophy's as of yet ( our oldest is 3). But after much discussion
>on
>all
> >
> > the other decisions we have made it comes over to my way of
>thinking.....
> >
> > Julie
>
>
>LOL. Were you a debater in school?
>
>My husband observed after the last unschooling conference that we went to
>that homeschooling, the research into it, the websites, the books, the
>conferences, the support groups, are overwhelmingly feminine in nature.
>That's completely understandable since moms are the primary homeschoolers.
>He sees in talking with other hs dads, that there is often the attitude
>that
>homeschooling is the mom's job, and that the dad may have some concerns
>about
>it, but if she's willing to commit to it, he's willing to "give it a try".
>But, they often take a wait and see attitude. Then, as time progresses,
>and
>the dad sees that the children and mom are happy, productive people, that
>the
>kids are learning and they won't be social misfits, he "comes around" and
>becomes an advocate.
>
>This happened with my husband, too. But wouldn't it be so much more
>productive if we could bring these guys around sooner? We could save so
>much
>emotional energy if we didn't have to deal with our job--homeschooling--and
>with our partner's doubts, too.
>
>Carron
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:39:18 EDT
> From: Cararmst@...
>Subject: Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
>
>In a message dated 8/26/2000 7:58:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
>mommiesapp@... writes:
>
> > Also, late that same month my ds was born so we were ALL
> > adjusting to life with a newborn.
>
>Wow, Michelle, that turns everybody upside down! It is so hard dealing
>with
>a new baby and your other child's behavioral issues at the same time!
>Especially when I bet a lot of those behaviors are a direct result of
>having
>the new baby in the house. I promise things will get better. But it will
>take time and consistency.
>
> > Now, I just have to work on REALLY
> > keeping my voice calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a screamer
>and
>I
> >
> > think I REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!)
>
>That's my biggest problem, too. I really have to pay attention to my
>voice,
>even now. There are still times when my son tries my patience -- that will
>never go away, I'm sure -- but it has gotten easier. Even if a calm voice
>is not second nature, I've tried to make it a habit to stop and think
>before
>I say anything (the old count to 10 trick).
>
> > Also, the Library thinks they
> >
> > may have the book which they got from the interlibrary loan service --
>a
> > local college apparently has or will have several copies of the Toddler
>book
> >
> > you referred to -- I am really looking forward to reading it!
> >
> > Thanks for the support and advice!
>
>You're welcome. I really believe in Love and Logic, and I know that with
>consistency, it works. You guys are going through a really trying time,
>right now. But, as the bible says, this too shall pass. If you have any
>questions or problems, I can give you some ideas to try. Just let me know.
>
>Carron
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:03:39 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: (hubby influn)- was Rebellion
>
>No I wasn't a debator in school....I am too open minded (wiht the
>exceptions
>of a few things). I can be swayed too often....I just have tons of
>influences with my hubby (lucky me!)
>
>Julie
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:05:50 EDT
> From: Jaam1224@...
>Subject: Re: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
>
>Carron,
>I love your post, please pass on your thoughts .....
>
>Julie
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:41:36 EDT
> From: cen46624@...
>Subject: Re: Lefty Mouse
>
>My dh is a lefty, and now the whole family uses the mouse on the left side
>of
>the computer, but the buttons are set up the standard way, so no one has to
>relearn mouse use when they use another computer.
>
>:-) Diane
>
>
> > OH MY! I just realized that whenever my dd does play on the computer we
> > make her use the mouse just as it is!! I NEVER thought about changing
>the
> > buttons!! Wow, I guess I'll have to change the mouse and see if there
>is
>a
> > difference?! DD does eat, write, and do MOST tasks with her left hand
>but
> > I've noticed she throw with her right hand (quite well) and I guess she
>also
> > uses the mouse with her right -- I'll have to let you know what happens
>if
> > she uses the left with the mouse.
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:55:45 -0700
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
>Subject: Fw: TOY DEATH ROW MARV
>
>I thought we had hit bottom on the sick behavior in this world but I guess
>I'll have to rethink that!
>
>Lynda
>
>----------
> > Here is a description by Michelle Malkin in the St. Louis
> > Post-Dispatch: Death Row Marv is "a half-foot-tall replica
> > of a
> > violent character created by surly graphic artist Frank
> > Miller.... He comes with "the chair, wired helmet,
> > floorboards
> > and electrocuting switch." For $23.95, you, too, can
> > purchase
> > the "deluxe box set" and share the cheap thrill of
> > executing a
> > murderer: "Feel the burn as the electric buzz fills the
> > room and
> > he starts to shake and convulse," an ad promotion for
> > Death Row
> > Marv beckons. "Experience the pain as the shaking
> > continues and
> > his eyes start to glow bright red. Enjoy the torment as he
> > utters his famous last words, 'Is that the best you can
> > do, you
> > pansies?' "
> >
> > Further information: Pat@...
> >
> > From: drf21 <drf21@...>
> > Subject: Withdraw "Death Row Marv" Dolls
> >
> > Dear McFarlane Toys:
> >
> > Death Row Marv is unbelievably vulgar and gross. It
> > appeals to
> > brutal tendencies and callously attempts to portray the
> > tragedy
> > of taking human life as humorous.
> >
> > Please withdraw this insensitive, coarse "toy" from the
> > market
> > at once.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > drf21
> > xxxxxxxxxxxx Road
> > xxxxxx, TX xxxxxx
> >
> > If you approve, letters to the following officials will be
> > individually written and sent. They address the official
> > by name
> > at least once and may contain information specific to that
> > official and this letter.
> >
> > McFarlane Toys <stevethevictim@...>,
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:58:51 -0000
> From: "Corallyn " <hape2day@...>
>Subject: Re: Questions from a Newbie/Behavior
>
>--- In [email protected], mommiesapp@c... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/26/00 5:58:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [email protected] writes:
> >
> > Carron, on the behavior issues -- so far so good! I guess I have
>been doing the Love and Logic thing *correctly* but I am guessing it
>is just going to take some time. I only started implementing the
>whole L&L ideas in January of this year. Also, late that same month
>my ds was born so we were ALL adjusting to life with a newborn.
>I'll keep up the choices and implementing my own if she doesn't make
>a choice. Now, I just have to work on REALLY keeping my voice
>calm!!! (Not my strong point! My mom was a screamer and I think I
>REALLY have it in me to be one tooo!)
> >
>
>
>I can relate REALLY well to this. I naturally have a loud voice since
>birth. I was a screamer as an infant. I was so loud that people would
>move away from my parents when they sat down at church. I am also the
>second of six children. It got pretty loud around the house with so
>many kids. It has taken me most of my adult life to hear that I am
>talking louder than everyone else. Now that I have kids, I realize
>that when I am frustrated my volum rises, again. I have learned that
>keeping the radio and t.v. down or off helps a lot. I have also
>learned that when I am REALLY upset with the children to use a softer
>calmer voice. You can almost tell how irritated I am by how calm and
>controled my voice is. It is when things are calm around here that I
>tend to lose control of my volum. I am still working on the control
>in those frustrating times though. Think I always will. Corallyn
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:12:21 GMT
> From: "Cathie _" <cathie_98@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: Rebellion (was Pink Hair)
>
> >my dh became an adamant
> >unschooler. Something clicked. He came away telling me that kids
> >shouldn't
> >even think about academics until they're twelve, that the body of
>knowledge
> >is changing so rapidly we can't possibly to hope to learn what we need to
> >know in school or even homeschooling with a curriculum, that our kids
>will
> >learn what they need to when they need to -- period!.
>
>
>Your husband has de-schooled. Isn't it great how it works! When I started
>out I had all these wonderful plans for unit studies that I thought would
>be
>fun, and interesting, and could incorporate all the usual school subjects
>into one topic. It didn't take me long to find out that what sounded fun
>and
>interesting to me might sound dumb and boring to the kids. Or, more likely,
>it would appeal to one kid, but not the others. So, after a few months of
>trying to force people to participate in all my carefully planned fun, I
>began my own de-schooling too.
>
>Now, though, after two years, it seems that the kids would like to do some
>of the things that I threw out. Now that they are truly free to learn what
>they want, they do want to learn. Now they will put the effort into it, and
>seem to be able to appreciate each others contributions and interests. So,
>we may do a unit. This time, however, it won't be me planning it all out
>and
>telling them what they are to do.
>
>School starts in our district tomorrow. We traditionally have breakfast in
>our garden and watch the bus pass by. We celebrate our freedom and do a
>little thinking and talking about where we want to go with school this year
>and what we would like to do. When they went to school I always video taped
>them on this day, getting on the bus, and then telling me how the first day
>went. That tape was a big motivator in the decision to pull them out of
>school when I looked back at the changes over the years-from a wonderful
>family that you would love to know, to a bunch of rude brats interrupting
>each other. Maybe I will tape again tomorrow to see what a difference there
>is now.
>
>Cathie
>
>________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/27/2000 11:25:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starshine_lal@... writes:
reasons to stay away from the ps thing is to have more control over our
personal lives and better time to spend together as a family. In our family,
we all live by Dad's schedule because he is the one with a schedule set by
outside influences (work). DH has worked rotating shift work most of our
lives. When he's on a night shift he would totally miss any family time if
we stick to a strict bedtime routine, especially when he works a swing shift.
Our ps routine for swing shift WAS: Dad comes home from work after
midnight, sleeps until 9 or 10, by which time children have gone off to
school; dad would go to work just before children return from school and
children were in bed before dad returned from work. YUCK! (Just one of the
many reasons we homeschool!) Now, we all shift schedules according to Dad's
work schedule. (although it is a little hard for the family to do the
midnight to 7 a.m. routine, so we compromise as needed!)
I also think it depends on the needs of the child. We have health problems
in our family which are exacerbated by disrupted sleep routines. So, when
someone is in a health flare, it becomes important that there be some routine
to encourage good sleep patterns. Also, I can't sleep knowing there are
children up and about. It's more a matter of wanting to be there/be involved
with them than lack of trust. Since I'm most often the one with health
problems, my sleep needs take precedent over kid's schedule. OTOH if someone
else has a bigger/stronger need, we adjust.
The family time is most important to us. We don't really care when the
family sleeps, but we have better quality of life and family time if we are
all on a similar schedule. Our friends and extended family have learned to
not call at 8 a.m. and that they may catch us napping mid-afternoon, and I've
learned to turn the phone off until I'm up in the morning! They've also
learned that if they need to talk to someone at 2 a.m., the odds are really
good that I'm up.
It is my opinion that, as the parent, I have the responsibility to monitor
the health conditions of my children and insist on a bedtime that is best for
the individual and the family, as needed. I would definitely not be
comfortable having kids up until who knows when. Having people up and about
during sleep hours is not much of an issue because, regardless of which
schedule we are currently on, we have a bedtime routine which includes
reading, cuddling, family time and tucking in kidlet who is about to turn 12,
but not about to give up that routine(!).
If someone has a hard time going to sleep at the designated hour, we
encourage reading or other quiet activity. Especially when we are having to
switch from one schedule to another. (I would probably be a family bed
spokesperson if everyone else's snoring didn't keep me awake. But that's
almost a different topic.)
This has probably not been an answer that's helpful for you, except to point
out that the needs of each family differ. (What a long-winded way to say: Do
what is best for you and your family. <bg> )
As for limiting usage of computer/internet (or computer games). Again, it
depends. I'm protective of where on the net my children go, so we use AOL's
filter and also ask children to let us know when they are on the internet.
Plus, I hang out with them enough that it is not difficult for me to steer
them a different direction if I don't like where they are.
I have found we sometimes need to limit the time on the computer or using
video games due to general crabbiness. IMO, too much time in front of any
electronic media has the same effect as too much time in front of TV or
stuffed behind a school desk...brain wave coma. (Quickly recognizable by the
loss of ability to hear mom's voice and the vacant stares when you actually
get them to look your way! LOL) We don't have fast rules about how much is
too much, but watch our children's behavior and let that be our guide.
As for math, we still use Saxon. I love math and have no trouble getting DS
to be enthusiastic about the subject. We love the scientific aspects of it
and multiplying fractions is just the sort of topic our brain waves enjoy.
(sometimes comes in handy for solving video or puzzle game problems, too.)
When it's time for SAT's or college placement tests, they'll either learn the
subject quickly in order to move on and meet their goal, or they'll take
remedial classes/find a tutor to get what they need when they need it. So,
either method works. We use a hybrid: Use a textbook, but without strictly
following the outline/schedule and look for opportunities to explore math
concepts in daily living.
If it helps any, I have 2 child-units. One is an adult now. We unschooled
pretty thoroughly from about age 15 on (read: could NOT get the kid to do
any 'school' work and eventually gave up with the theory that saving our
relationship with him was more important than cramming the 'necessary' school
work into his rebellious brain!) The stinker went on to take his GED after 5
years of no formal school work, refused to study with a GED study guide or
look at any text books in order to prepare for the test, passed the GED test
with flying colors the first try, has taken college courses, started his own
family and has since gone on to become an electrician apprenticeship. I
count that as success.
He learned what he needed when he was ready for it. Waiting only helped him
to be more ready for it. I learned to relax the hard way! We do things much
differently for the younger son. (That's the cool thing about 10 years
between kids, there is lots of time to analyze parenting decisions and learn
for the second son.) Luckily for us, the older one is so stubborn. <bg>
FWIW
Eiraul
starshine_lal@... writes:
> I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curiousDepends on the needs of the family and the child(ren), IMO. One of our main
> about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
> ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
> SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT?
reasons to stay away from the ps thing is to have more control over our
personal lives and better time to spend together as a family. In our family,
we all live by Dad's schedule because he is the one with a schedule set by
outside influences (work). DH has worked rotating shift work most of our
lives. When he's on a night shift he would totally miss any family time if
we stick to a strict bedtime routine, especially when he works a swing shift.
Our ps routine for swing shift WAS: Dad comes home from work after
midnight, sleeps until 9 or 10, by which time children have gone off to
school; dad would go to work just before children return from school and
children were in bed before dad returned from work. YUCK! (Just one of the
many reasons we homeschool!) Now, we all shift schedules according to Dad's
work schedule. (although it is a little hard for the family to do the
midnight to 7 a.m. routine, so we compromise as needed!)
I also think it depends on the needs of the child. We have health problems
in our family which are exacerbated by disrupted sleep routines. So, when
someone is in a health flare, it becomes important that there be some routine
to encourage good sleep patterns. Also, I can't sleep knowing there are
children up and about. It's more a matter of wanting to be there/be involved
with them than lack of trust. Since I'm most often the one with health
problems, my sleep needs take precedent over kid's schedule. OTOH if someone
else has a bigger/stronger need, we adjust.
The family time is most important to us. We don't really care when the
family sleeps, but we have better quality of life and family time if we are
all on a similar schedule. Our friends and extended family have learned to
not call at 8 a.m. and that they may catch us napping mid-afternoon, and I've
learned to turn the phone off until I'm up in the morning! They've also
learned that if they need to talk to someone at 2 a.m., the odds are really
good that I'm up.
It is my opinion that, as the parent, I have the responsibility to monitor
the health conditions of my children and insist on a bedtime that is best for
the individual and the family, as needed. I would definitely not be
comfortable having kids up until who knows when. Having people up and about
during sleep hours is not much of an issue because, regardless of which
schedule we are currently on, we have a bedtime routine which includes
reading, cuddling, family time and tucking in kidlet who is about to turn 12,
but not about to give up that routine(!).
If someone has a hard time going to sleep at the designated hour, we
encourage reading or other quiet activity. Especially when we are having to
switch from one schedule to another. (I would probably be a family bed
spokesperson if everyone else's snoring didn't keep me awake. But that's
almost a different topic.)
This has probably not been an answer that's helpful for you, except to point
out that the needs of each family differ. (What a long-winded way to say: Do
what is best for you and your family. <bg> )
As for limiting usage of computer/internet (or computer games). Again, it
depends. I'm protective of where on the net my children go, so we use AOL's
filter and also ask children to let us know when they are on the internet.
Plus, I hang out with them enough that it is not difficult for me to steer
them a different direction if I don't like where they are.
I have found we sometimes need to limit the time on the computer or using
video games due to general crabbiness. IMO, too much time in front of any
electronic media has the same effect as too much time in front of TV or
stuffed behind a school desk...brain wave coma. (Quickly recognizable by the
loss of ability to hear mom's voice and the vacant stares when you actually
get them to look your way! LOL) We don't have fast rules about how much is
too much, but watch our children's behavior and let that be our guide.
As for math, we still use Saxon. I love math and have no trouble getting DS
to be enthusiastic about the subject. We love the scientific aspects of it
and multiplying fractions is just the sort of topic our brain waves enjoy.
(sometimes comes in handy for solving video or puzzle game problems, too.)
When it's time for SAT's or college placement tests, they'll either learn the
subject quickly in order to move on and meet their goal, or they'll take
remedial classes/find a tutor to get what they need when they need it. So,
either method works. We use a hybrid: Use a textbook, but without strictly
following the outline/schedule and look for opportunities to explore math
concepts in daily living.
If it helps any, I have 2 child-units. One is an adult now. We unschooled
pretty thoroughly from about age 15 on (read: could NOT get the kid to do
any 'school' work and eventually gave up with the theory that saving our
relationship with him was more important than cramming the 'necessary' school
work into his rebellious brain!) The stinker went on to take his GED after 5
years of no formal school work, refused to study with a GED study guide or
look at any text books in order to prepare for the test, passed the GED test
with flying colors the first try, has taken college courses, started his own
family and has since gone on to become an electrician apprenticeship. I
count that as success.
He learned what he needed when he was ready for it. Waiting only helped him
to be more ready for it. I learned to relax the hard way! We do things much
differently for the younger son. (That's the cool thing about 10 years
between kids, there is lots of time to analyze parenting decisions and learn
for the second son.) Luckily for us, the older one is so stubborn. <bg>
FWIW
Eiraul
[email protected]
In a message dated 08/28/2000 6:24:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
starshine_lal@... writes:
<< I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curious
about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum from
Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of coercing.
They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling (again)
and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are ever
going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I think
I need a pep talk...
Everyone has their own take on these things but here's my 2 cents:
(1) Bedtime -- ?? Whatever works. I have read a lot lately about teens
needing lots and lots and lots of sleep, tho. So, maybe that's an important
factor in your house. Not mine yet (7 yo and 5 1/2 yo) but we sleep when
we're tired. Not to be flip, I have just never figured out how to tell a
person (even myself), "OK, it's 9:00 -- sleep." Altho, I personally, can
sleep at the drop of a hat! No help here!!
(2) Computer limits -- what we do -- Mom hogs the computer. Seriously, I
have been doing some things lately and have not been sharing well. But
generally we take turns and are so busy doing lots of things that we haven't
gotten into too many hours of computer time. It's probably more of a problem
with teens tho. But I do know it goes in spurts - a new game or website =
hours of fun (and learning too but don't tell the kids). Of course, they're
completely supervised on the Net --all that.
(3) Math -- Do what you want. My son is taking a math course on line and
also does all sorts of reading and games and blackboard time and 5 1/2 yo
daughter is at the playing lots of games and learning to write the letters
and add & subtract stage. We have some workbooks sitting around. But for
the more advanced stuff especially, what's wrong with a course. Maybe you
just haven't found one the kids click with. They are old enough -- perhaps
they could help you select the right one for them.
Well, good luck with everything.
Nance
starshine_lal@... writes:
<< I am new to this site. I have a 10 year old and 13 year old and am curious
about what you all think, unschooling-wise, about: 1)SET TIMES FOR BED vs.
ANYTIME IS OKAY...same with rising time. 2)Use of the computer/internet:
SHOULD THERE BE A LIMIT? 3)Last year, we homeschooled with a curriculum from
Oak Meadow. We did the Saxon Math lessons everyday...after lots of coercing.
They both learned alot inspite of resistance. Now we are unschooling (again)
and I am having trouble just LETTING GO of math...I doubt that they are ever
going to choose to do it on their own...the stuff they were learning, we
will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I think
I need a pep talk...
>>Hi Linda --
Everyone has their own take on these things but here's my 2 cents:
(1) Bedtime -- ?? Whatever works. I have read a lot lately about teens
needing lots and lots and lots of sleep, tho. So, maybe that's an important
factor in your house. Not mine yet (7 yo and 5 1/2 yo) but we sleep when
we're tired. Not to be flip, I have just never figured out how to tell a
person (even myself), "OK, it's 9:00 -- sleep." Altho, I personally, can
sleep at the drop of a hat! No help here!!
(2) Computer limits -- what we do -- Mom hogs the computer. Seriously, I
have been doing some things lately and have not been sharing well. But
generally we take turns and are so busy doing lots of things that we haven't
gotten into too many hours of computer time. It's probably more of a problem
with teens tho. But I do know it goes in spurts - a new game or website =
hours of fun (and learning too but don't tell the kids). Of course, they're
completely supervised on the Net --all that.
(3) Math -- Do what you want. My son is taking a math course on line and
also does all sorts of reading and games and blackboard time and 5 1/2 yo
daughter is at the playing lots of games and learning to write the letters
and add & subtract stage. We have some workbooks sitting around. But for
the more advanced stuff especially, what's wrong with a course. Maybe you
just haven't found one the kids click with. They are old enough -- perhaps
they could help you select the right one for them.
Well, good luck with everything.
Nance
aworthen
----- Original Message -----
From: linda loux <starshine_lal@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 745
Welcome. I'm Amy unschooling mom to 3 girls. We do not have enforced
bedtimes for 2 reasons. 1) I think part fo the beauty of unschooling is that
the kids are not limited to class time. My daughter is a night owl by
nature. She does most of her best learning and is at her sharpest at 11 at
night. 2) my dh holds odd hours at work and as someone else said, if we
stuck to traditional hours we'd never see him. I can't really answer the
computer question, because my kids have no interest in it. I'd like to see
them use it more. As far as math goes, I do use workbooks, but try not to
enforce it too much. That way I feel like they still have some say in the
matter. Hope that helps.
Amy
Mom to Samantha, Dana, and Casey
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/28/2000 1:25:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
starshine_lal@... writes:
dance classes at a local community college here in Dallas. Since she had not
taken a college entrance exam, she had to take a similar test administered by
the community college system. It included Algebra. That was the only thing
she felt unsure about as she had never bothered with it before She sat down
with an algebra textbook, and learned the entire course in 17 days. She took
the test and did just fine.
Carron
starshine_lal@... writes:
> the stuff they were learning, wethink
> will probably never come across naturally (multiplying fractions, algebra,
> etc.)so, what happens if they want to take an SAT test later; I guess they
> just have to "knuckle down" and learn lots of math all at once THEN? I
>I know a young woman, a lifelong unschooler, who decided to take music and
> I need a pep talk...
dance classes at a local community college here in Dallas. Since she had not
taken a college entrance exam, she had to take a similar test administered by
the community college system. It included Algebra. That was the only thing
she felt unsure about as she had never bothered with it before She sat down
with an algebra textbook, and learned the entire course in 17 days. She took
the test and did just fine.
Carron