[email protected]

In a message dated 6/18/99 1:05:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:

<< Please excuse the tirade, but we are in the middle of our adoption
homestudy paperwork and they keep asking us for essay answers on what our
philosphy and beliefs are on child rearing, education, and culture. >>

We're hoping to adopt someday in the distant future. Has anyone on this list
who professed unschooling/homeschooling either successfully adopted someone
or had any trouble because of the intention to HS/US?

Elizabeth

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

>We're hoping to adopt someday in the distant future. Has anyone on this
list
>who professed unschooling/homeschooling either successfully adopted someone
>or had any trouble because of the intention to HS/US?
>
>Elizabeth

Just to let you know, we had our home interview today ( ! ) We discussed
our beliefs about education, our plans to Unschool at home, my feelings
about my ps experience, as well as my feelings about the situation in ps
for children in general, (which I recently detailed in another message to
this list.) The Case Worker seemed positive about what I told her, but who
knows? I will let everyone know if our education plans cause us any
complications in the adoption process, now that we have made our position
clear.

Nanci K. in Idaho

Andi Kaufman

Elizabeth wrote:
>We're hoping to adopt someday in the distant future. Has anyone on this list
>who professed unschooling/homeschooling either successfully adopted someone
>or had any trouble because of the intention to HS/US?

We have not discussed the kind of hsing we do at all. They are fine with
hsing in general. I dont know if we will have to deal with the system if
the kid is already in school but in our area I have heard that hsing isnt
much of problem compared to the rest of the process.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

Bill&Annmarie

We went through our home study, and although it is not complete, they were
good about the homeschooling. We have very conservative views, and clearly
stated them on the question sheet they gave us. We will see in the long run
how they turn out. The Social worker, said we had some very positive
things going for us.
Annmarie



:We're hoping to adopt someday in the distant future. Has anyone on this
list
:who professed unschooling/homeschooling either successfully adopted someone
:or had any trouble because of the intention to HS/US?
:
:Elizabeth
:

Alan & Brenda Leonard

11/16/02 15:24:

> OK... hmmm, what about when one parent feels strongly that the child should
> never be told?

It's unenforcable. Someday, somehow, that child *will* learn that he or she
was adopted.

And it's about trust. If parents would lie to a child about their genetic
heritage, what else would they lie to them about? Such a revelation could
be truly shattering, I think.

brenda

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/02 8:24:56 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<<
OK... hmmm, what about when one parent feels strongly that the child should
never be told?
Myranda >>

They shouldn't be adopting that child.

I have a bit of experience with the adoption issue.
Besides, lying to a child is wrong. Especially when you consider it is their
right to know....it's about their birth, their heritage. Anyone that feels
strongly that they should lie about that, shouldn't adopt.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/02 11:58:43 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Now, that said, I do wish that the laws were different in MD when I was
born
as I have no knowledge of my biological family medical history which
worries
me. >>

There are groups to help you with searches. I have done a long search, more
for my curiosity than dh's, for his birth mother. Hit some dead ends, but in
WA state there is a way to have a liason open the court records and perform a
search for you very reasonably.
Google it. There are better laws now, and more support out there for adoptees
to get information.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 8:25:07 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< So, do you
still think, if the woman has a change of heart when the child is say, 18,
maybe divorced from the man who raised the child, maybe not, that she should
disrupt that child's entire life to tell her secret? >>

First of all, we're talking about adoption. The scenario you just described
would not involve adoption, would it?
That's something that the woman would have to live with. And still, it could
come back to bite her AND the child on the butt if she isn't honest.
It's happened. And it's terrible for the child and the Dad.
There may be a rare time that dishonesty serves it's purpose, but it could
end up unhappy in the long run.
That scene does not involve adoption though.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

Myranda

I was curious about what adopted people feel and think when they find out they're adopted, because I think it would be very similar to finding out your dad really isn't your bio dad, but accepted, wanted, raised, and loved you, perhaps even adopted.
Myranda

From: starsuncloud@...
First of all, we're talking about adoption. The scenario you just described
would not involve adoption, would it?
That's something that the woman would have to live with. And still, it could
come back to bite her AND the child on the butt if she isn't honest.
It's happened. And it's terrible for the child and the Dad.
There may be a rare time that dishonesty serves it's purpose, but it could
end up unhappy in the long run.
That scene does not involve adoption though.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...>

<<I was curious about what adopted people feel and think when they find out
they're adopted, because I think it would be very similar to finding out
your dad really isn't your bio dad, but accepted, wanted, raised, and loved
you, perhaps even adopted.>>


My sister was adopted and raised and treated royally by my dad. She always
knew she had a bio dad elsewhere. When she got older, she left the whole
family and found her bio dad who was very close by and lived with him. Told
me I didn't understand as blood was thicker than water. Totally turned her
back on us all. My dad was devastated. Before my dad died, my sister started
to come around a little and at least gave my dad some closure by being
friendly. She still has nothing to do with my mom or me and still lives with
her bio dad. She told me once when she would make him get her stuff that she
figured he owed her.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Myranda

These are more the type of stories I'm used to hearing about. It was nice to hear all the happy adoption stories!
Myranda
From: Mary Bianco
My sister was adopted and raised and treated royally by my dad. She always
knew she had a bio dad elsewhere. When she got older, she left the whole
family and found her bio dad who was very close by and lived with him. Told
me I didn't understand as blood was thicker than water. Totally turned her
back on us all. My dad was devastated. Before my dad died, my sister started
to come around a little and at least gave my dad some closure by being
friendly. She still has nothing to do with my mom or me and still lives with
her bio dad. She told me once when she would make him get her stuff that she
figured he owed her.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 8:32:56 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< First of all, we're talking about adoption. The scenario you just
described
would not involve adoption, would it? >>

If that child has always thought his father/mother's first husband was his
biological father, then that's a secret adoption of sorts.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/02 7:22:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> but in
> WA state there is a way to have a liason open the court records and perform
> a
> search for you very reasonably.
>

We've done that.
The records no longer exist. My mom's first search was stopped in the courts.
The second time we found out that all the records (paper) were destroyed, I
think in a fire.
I'm not interested in finding "family" members, especially since I could
always have genetic counseling done.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 11:29:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
myrandab@... writes:

> I was curious about what adopted people feel and think when they find out
> they're adopted, because I think it would be very similar to finding out
> your dad really isn't your bio dad, but accepted, wanted, raised, and loved
> you, perhaps even adopted.
>

I don't think it's similar at all.
And most adopted children aren't finding out they are adopted at a later age.
So that is where the difference lies.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Ah, ok. I have trouble understanding the feelings involved with it, as I've never been there. Some things you can guess and imagine, but this isn't one of them for me.
Myranda
From: Earthmomma67@...
I don't think it's similar at all.
And most adopted children aren't finding out they are adopted at a later age.
So that is where the difference lies.
Elissa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 12:14:10 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I was curious about what adopted people feel and think when they find out
they're adopted, >>

Most adopted people have always known.
If not, it would be very damaging or at least difficult. My dh always knew,
it was considered special because he was chosen.
My three adopted siblings always knew. Two of them came to us older, so it
would not have been possible to lie! But my little brother doesn't remember
anything but our family. My mother made up a little book, with pictures that
told his story and how he came to us. It was beautiful.
The best thing imo, is to always talk about it openly and honestly, just as
you would a child's birth.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 12:14:10 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

And what I wrote about a scenario not involving adoption was in response to
another post, not yours Myranda.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 12:14:10 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< If that child has always thought his father/mother's first husband was his
biological father, then that's a secret adoption of sorts. >>

Only if the Father knew. Otherwise, the woman was the only one with the
information, and everyone else is pawns in her lie.......

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

Julie Stauffer

<<What about when one parent feels strongly that the child should never be
told?>>

I would ask that parent why they want their entire relationship with this
child they love to be based on a lie. A lie of omission is still a lie. I
would reassure this parent that children love people they are not
biologically related to just like adults do. You would never think that you
somehow love your spouse less than a sibling because you are not
biologically related. It is common for adults to think that the
relationship between adoptive families is "different" than between birth
families, but I don't believe it is true. I have friends and relatives who
have both birth and adopted children and it is the same.

Julie

Myranda

Oh, OK! It's hard to tell when the previous post isn't copied.
Myranda
From: starsuncloud@...
And what I wrote about a scenario not involving adoption was in response to
another post, not yours Myranda.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/02 9:16:20 PM, jnjstau@... writes:

<< I would ask that parent why they want their entire relationship with this
child they love to be based on a lie. A lie of omission is still a lie. I
would reassure this parent that children love people they are not
biologically related to just like adults do. >>

LOTS of people lie.
People my age and older were often not told where they came from.
I know many people my age who looked for children they put out for adoption,
and those adoptions were forced on them by parents who sent them to other
cities (lying to grandparents and aunts and uncles about why) and told them
NEVER to tell they had had a baby.

How many husbands or wives have had an affair and kept it secret?
How many families have incest secrets?

I think in the rarified company of unschoolers while it's still a new and
difficult thing to do, you're preaching to the choir of angels about being
open and honest with children. But to act as though ALL humans intend to be
honest and gentle with children is like denying there is car theft or robbery
or vandalism in the world.

I was warned/reminded two years ago NOT to mention that my cousin (now 44 or
so) was adopted, because she didn't know. I seriously doubt that's true.
My grandmother mentioned it lots to me, and although I had never talked about
it directly with Gayla, she was one of three in that family, the first was
adopted (her) and then my aunt got pregnant with a girl who looked like my
aunt and uncle and me and other relatives (Gayla was blonde and blue-eyed, in
a dark-haired family), and then there was a third child whose father was the
head of all the Masons in that state. My uncle had been #2 Mason that
season, when his wife was impregnated by his lodgebrother. BIG tacky
divorce, much acrimony, and thirty years later they thought they had kept a
secret?

Not every situation is clean and simple. Few are. It takes a lot of work.
GOOD for those of you whose parents worked to make things right. But please d
on't pretend there aren't other ways and other situations.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/18/02 8:08:01 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< You'd be surprised how many adoption records were "destroyed in a fire".
>>

Yep.
My dh's birth records mysteriously were destroyed.
But after searching around for a while, and many phone calls later, we found
where his court records were.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

Myranda

Yup!!! After I sent the e-mail the other day about there being two situations of secret adoption in my family, I realized there are actually three that I know about, plus at least one secret child living with another family. Many more lies going on about other things, too. It's all so hard to keep up with, I simply don't talk about family stuff with family. Heck, Kelly likely knows at least some of the family, living in Columbia. They've always been here, I'm the newcomer! (Last name Redmon ring a bell, Kelly? LOL) My parents moved away when I was a baby because of the secret my mom wanted to keep from her father. As a result, I never got to meet the man, that I remember. He was murdered when I was about 10. Lies do hurt and eat away at the fabric of the family, but it does happen.... all the time.

I have relayed the fact that most of you who were adopted have very positive feelings and experiences, and the family members I relayed it to are considering it. Hopefully it will work out, but there's only so much I can do. We'll all have to respect their decision, although I'm not sure how I'll pass their lie on to my kids if they do decide to cover it up. Hopefully they won't notice anything amiss and won't ask. Thank you all who shared your experiences!!
Myranda

From: SandraDodd@...
LOTS of people lie. <snip>
Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/18/02 10:44:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
myrandab@... writes:

> , although I'm not sure how I'll pass their lie on to my kids if they do
> decide to cover it up.

I would say that I couldn't ask my children to lie, and I won't lie to my
children and let them decide what to do with that. Unless you are willing to
do that.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Well, I know I'm not willing to risk ruining someone else's life by refusing to accept a decision they make as a family. I might not like it, but that doesn't give me the right to blackmail them about it - which I would be doing if I told them that I would tell my children their secret, if they decide to keep it a secret. I'll just hope the kids don't ask directly about it, they haven't so far with the others, but the others were all here before they were born.
Myranda

From: Earthmomma67@...
I would say that I couldn't ask my children to lie, and I won't lie to my
children and let them decide what to do with that. Unless you are willing to
do that.
Elissa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Stauffer

<<But please don't pretend there aren't other ways and other situations.>>

Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. I am very well aware that many,
many people lie to their children and family members. However, the post
asked what would you say to a parent choosing not to tell a child they were
adopted and I responded that I would ask them why they would base a
relationship on a lie. I don't mean to imply that no relationships are
based on lies, only that it is a tremendous complication, one that endangers
the entire relationship.

Julie

Ren

"I'm adopted, that statement sorta makes me feel "less than". "

I really don't know how on earth MY mother's feelings could make anyone feel "less than" on any level Glena.
My mother felt a certain way about her adopted children and that's not a statement, it's a fact. It shouldn't affect how any other adopted child feels anywhere in the whole wide world.

Two of my siblings came at ages 9 and 11. I doubt you were adopted at either of those ages. They are Eskimo, my family is caucasion, it's pretty hard to NOT explain to inquiring people that they were adopted. Later, we adopted my brother at 2y.o., he's Athabaskan Indian. Our family, by the fact that we were culturally mixed, had obvious distinctions between the adopted and biological children.
None of us were treated any differently, we were all our parent's children. My folks didn't introduce them differently or act any different towards them, but it was pretty obvious they didn't get in our family by birth!
It was after years and years of heartbreak, my mother watching her adopted children go through extremely destructive behavior, land in jail time and again (my brother), abusive relationships they chose and neglectful parenting of their own children (my neice and nephew are being raised by Grandparents on the other side of the family) and so much sad and terrible experiences that my mother decided she'd done NOTHING to help these children and all the tons of hours and energy she'd put into those children would have been better spent on her own.
I agree.
I still love my adopted siblings, although I rarely have contact due to their destructive lifestyles. I KNOW that my Mom would have been a better Mom, our lives more peaceful and happy had she not adopted.
I'm still glad she did it. It was part of my journey and I do believe that it may have helped their lives in some way....even if it's just that they have a parent figure they love and can rely on to this day.
We have a special connection, my adopted siblings and I, even if it doesn't run as deep as my birth sibs only because of the age when they came.
We felt lovingly connected at my mother's death bed and in our hearts we are sisters forever. But there was so much heartbreak for my parents that goes on still today (for my Dad anyway), I totally understand why she felt that way.

My dh is adopted too. I can tell you that being adopted at 4 months is a whole different world than being adopted at 11. If you can't see that there is a different bond a parent makes with a child that is with them from birth, and a child that is half raised, then there's not much I can say to help you understand.
There WAS a difference between the adopted siblings and the birth siblings in our home. Not in authenticity, we were, and remain, a family. But to pretend like the cultural differences and the fact that they'd been raised by other parents for part of their lives didn't exist would be nuts.

Ren

"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/19/2004 2:09:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
>>>There WAS a difference between the adopted siblings and the birth siblings
in our home. Not in authenticity, we were, and remain, a family. But to
pretend like the cultural differences and the fact that they'd been raised by other
parents for part of their lives didn't exist would be nuts.

Ren<<<
************************************
Not only is there often a physical and cultural differences, but the way most
'older" adopted children need to be PARENTED is VERY different than a child
who was raised from birth and firmly attached to their parents. To bring an
older child into a home and assume the standard ways of parenting will work is a
recipe for disaster.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren

"To bring an
older child into a home and assume the standard ways of parenting will work is a recipe for disaster."

You know, I think that's where my parents made mistakes. They knew it later on...but at the time of adopting these children, they loved them so much and wanted them to be their very own children so bad, that they ignored the differences which ended up backfiring.
They tried to integrate my sisters into the household entirely, which was great in the love and nurture end of things, but disastrous in the religion/rules end. My oldest sister had so much anger and problems that came with her, and we never even entered counseling as a family.
I look back now and wonder what the heck my folks were thinking!
I really believe they thought love would heal everything, that, and a good dose of Jesus.
Our entire family should have been in counseling from the beginning. It might have prevented some of the later problems.

Ren

"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

Alison Broadbent

I haven't personally adopted any children but have some musings I'll share.
I've read about people becoming anti adoption esp adoptees. They say that
it's impossible to not feel that something is missing. I've thought it's so
easy to hang one's hat on such an issue. We've all got stuff to deal with
in our lives, each one of us and the human mind wants to find answers. But
I don't believe that adoption is the answer to why one feels something is
missing. So many of us at one time or another have felt that very same
thing. It certainly could be in certain situations just as a lousy family
experience could be the reason for lots of personal troubles.

The mother who regrets adopting a high need child and thought she should
have given her biological children more attention could easily be a mother
who had a bio child who had severe behavioral problems. In her private
thoughts, she might think how she wished she had never had this child and
how it strained the rest of the family's life. The mother who has only bio
kids doesn't get to have the easy answer that it was bc of an adoption.
There may certainly be lots more problems with adopting older children.

The other thought I've had about having children who aren't biologically
related to you is that you get to go beyond the idea that the bond of love
that one experiences is somehow tied to blood. I think lots of parents and
children have that belief and I now think how limiting that is. When your
family is not biologically related to you you can be freed from that and you
have an opportunity to have that inform how you view the world. There is
no "reason" for love. It just is. Many get to that place of understanding
but families who aren't biologically related I think, have that as a gift.

Alison