Earth Moon

At 11:52 AM 8/6/00 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/6/2000 8:05:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>hape2day@... writes:
>
><< Not because they are told they have to or because they
> are told that life will not be the same without it. Coallyn
> >>
>
>That's a great answer that really hits home with me... I was reading all the
>other posts about having older children and wondering what I would do with
>Zak and Max are older. I was reading everyone's experience and thinking that
>just letting him figure it out for himself wasn't the way to go. Thanks to
>your e-mail I've figured out we are on the right track with unschooling.
>When he needs to learn it he'll learn it. My belief is that going to college
>will be a thing of the past and not important at all.... Afterall reading a
>book doesn't in anyway prepare you for the realities of life. Life skills
>and living are far more important in a job... Of course I also believe that
>working for oneself is the only way to go in life and I know many of you
>don't believe that, for whatever reason. I think that now I live outside the
>box I can really see, which I couldn't do before.
>
>Thanks for your e-mail
>Dawn F

Another thing to remember is that the growing pool of liberal arts schools
out there have many zero requirement/zero prerequisite programs. I'm a
graduate of The Evergreen State College in WA, I never took a lick of
math. Same for Reed in Oregon and I believe for Hampshire in MA.
And remember, the great majority of the children we are raising are going
to get their jobs through INTERNSHIPS, not college degrees (since
internships train you specifically for the job as you need the skills,
where as it takes a Masters degree to have a professional career these
days) and they will aquire the skills specific to the job's the love. If
they happen to be in love with a math field job, chances are they will
ALREADY have aquired the math they need for the job. Grace Lewellyn goes
into this a bit in The Teenage Liberation handbook :)


earthmoon, the spirited 3yo pooter and little bean due in Jan
Please come join us on the Positive Parenting e-list
at: http://www.egroups.com/group/PositiveParenting-Discipline
what did people do before diapers? what we're doing now :) Come check out
my Elimination Communication e-list
: http://www.egroups.com/group/eliminationcommunication
We've got to give kids independent time right away because that is the key
to self-knowledge, and we must re-involve them with the real world as fast
as possible so that the independent time can be spent on something other
than more abstraction. This is an emergency, it requires drastic action to
correct - our children are dying like flies in schooling, good schooling or
bad schooling, it's all the same. Irrelevant.

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/00 11:05:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
hape2day@... writes:

<< I ended up dropping all my classes that sememster because I
was working and then became pg. My point is that even though your
child may not be interested in the higher math now the time will come
when they will need to know it and they will learn it out of desire
to move on. Not because they are told they have to or because they
are told that life will not be the same without it. >>


well that sounds like the way it is here too... as far as colleges are
concerned... you have to pass a basic skills test in order to be able to take
college math/english... so if you fail the math part, you are put in remedial
classes for 0 credit until you can pass the basic skills again... problem
with that is...it's costly and time consuming... but you're right... if you
need it, if you want it, you'll get it ... by hook or crook...

one of my biggest contentions with traditional schooling is the shoving of
math in every orifice to kids whether their ready or not... and that applies
to reading too... and i guess all subjects for that matter... i think it's
stifling to education... that's one of the primary reasons i am homeschooling
my daughter next year...

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/2000 8:05:38 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
hape2day@... writes:

<< Not because they are told they have to or because they
are told that life will not be the same without it. Coallyn
>>

That's a great answer that really hits home with me... I was reading all the
other posts about having older children and wondering what I would do with
Zak and Max are older. I was reading everyone's experience and thinking that
just letting him figure it out for himself wasn't the way to go. Thanks to
your e-mail I've figured out we are on the right track with unschooling.
When he needs to learn it he'll learn it. My belief is that going to college
will be a thing of the past and not important at all.... Afterall reading a
book doesn't in anyway prepare you for the realities of life. Life skills
and living are far more important in a job... Of course I also believe that
working for oneself is the only way to go in life and I know many of you
don't believe that, for whatever reason. I think that now I live outside the
box I can really see, which I couldn't do before.

Thanks for your e-mail
Dawn F

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/2000 8:05:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hape2day@... writes:

(this is old, but I thought I'd finish it anyone...if anyone's interested.)

> I think I have an answer for this one. When I was in high school I
> didn't get past intro to algebra. In fact I didn't even understand
> what it was that they "taught" me in intro to algebra. I took that
> class my sophomore year and was able to get out of taking math the
> remainder of my high school years by taking Cosmotology my Jr and Sr
> years. When I took math in college, about 4 years after I graduated,
> I was placed in the lowest level of math (3 levels below college
> credit algebra). What is interesting is that the whole sememster I
> spent the class doing the assignment that was given at the start of
> class and due the next class. I almost never listened to what was
> said. I just did the math. I think that part of my problem in high
> school is that I wasn't mature enough to understand what was being
> taught. The equations just didn't click. I also didn't understand
> what algebra had to do with me and my life.

I like this post and can relate both as a 'drop-out' and as a homeschooling
parent.

My experience is a little different. In Jr. High I challenged the 7th grade
math class as being too elementary for me. I'd already been exposed to the
material presented in the 7th grade text and insisted they find me an
appropriate class to attend. (I still chuckle about the whole thing because
I really set the whole school district on their ear with this one! They were
not willing to think outside the little box they put me in and I wasn't
willing to stay in my little box like a good little girl...heheheh)

Anyway, I finally told them I'd be willing to take the end of year final.
If I passed, they could put me into the 8th grade class (pre-algebra) and if
I didn't pass, I'd willingly attend the 7th grade class for the rest of the
year. (kinda sad that as a 12 yr old I had to give the adults a solution).
They were certain I couldn't do it and accepted the challenge. So, I was the
first 7th grader to attend the pre-algebra class in that school district.

Did fine in algebra courses, but when I got to geometry, I could not get it.
Now, it didn't help that the local jr. high didn't teach geometry, but
required a math class in 9th grade. So, they bussed me to the local high
school for geometry. The schedule was such that I arrived at class late and
had no opportunity to discuss the materials with the teacher before I had to
be back on the bus and back to the jr. high.

I dropped out of high school in my sophomore year. Got my GED at age 20.

Fast forward 20 years. I decided I wanted to go to college and the major I
was interested in involved heavy math and science. When I tested, I had to
take a remedial class before I was ready for the college level courses in
math. Once I got over the personal 'humiliation' and got started in the
class I loved it! I discovered that I had not understood the algebra classes
I had taken as a teen, in spite of my straight 'A' status. I aced the
remedial class and went on to more college math with continued success. When
I got to Trig and Geometry, I had no trouble understanding the concepts.

I think I just needed a bit of maturity and better opportunities to thrive in
the math classes. I've been told by more than one professor that I seem to
have an instinctive ability/talent. I love it! (a bit of a brag here, if
you'll excuse me...when we moved and I had to withdraw from science courses
because of the distance, my science teacher strongly encouraged me to make a
point of returning to college/science. She cried that I was leaving.
<smiles> That felt good, but isn't the point. Thanks for my moment to
publicly pat myself on the back...<bg>)

So, when the math is needed and the desire is there, it will be learned!
Relax.

(yeah, I realize I appear to be 'forked-tongue-ed' on this one, since I use a
math textbook. BG But the point is still the same, relax and do what is
best for you and your child.)

Eiraul