Re: School System Questions Addressed
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 06:45 PM 6/17/99 +0800, you wrote:
now absorbed in their favorite morning show (Zaboomafoo!) I will take the
time now.
faceless masses of "schoolchildren." Much like I was recently reminded
that for most Americans the Ethnic Albanian refugees from Kosovo have
become faceless nameless masses, and most folks are forgetting to look more
closely at the individual stories of REAL people and families. Many people
are so disconnected that they argue that we should not meddle in the
politics of other countries (Trekkies will relate this to the Star Fleet
Prime Directive.) But we obviously cannot ignore genocide like that. I
never lost my perspective, as I can't get the stroy of one particular
little boy out of my mind.
A similar situation can be equated to the School System. Many parents do
not get involved because they have "faith" in the system (My parents are a
case in point.) They are so enamored of the concept of public education
for all, that they sacrifice their children to the ideal. On the other
side of the fence we have the officials who do no want to get TOO involved
with our children ie: teaching them manners, values, sex education (not
until too late anyway,) culture. They consider these the domain of the
family (and rightly so!) and they just want to stick to the scholastic
facts. The problem is that there are so many parents who trust the school
system to "educate" their children, and do not draw a line with pure
scholastics. The biggest argument to homeschooling around here is usually
"What about Socialization?" In other words, what about culture, manners,
values, friendships, mentors..etc? Is school really the place our children
should be getting these things from? Even well intentioned parents who
think they are addressing these issues at home forget how many of them are
supplemented, or overridden completely, by the school environment.
We have no control over the environment at school, and the children are
often left mostly unsupervised, milling in large groups saying and doing
who knows what to each other. In my opinion, most of these children are
far too young to be so loosely supervised or left to make their own moral
decisions and deal with peer stress and academic stress that even college
students often have trouble handling. In contrast to the loose supervision
on the playground, outside of school grounds, or even in assemblies and
other forums at school, there is the classroom. There small children are
expected to sit at desks most of the day and act like tiny office workers.
Keeping their mouths shut, their butts in their chairs, doing what they are
told, not asking questions unless they are in the narrow current subject
field, NOT interperting assignments with creativity but performing as
directed, NOT rocking the boat.
They can't even go to the bathroom or take care of their other immediate
needs. Children with low blood sugar (like me, and my nephew) are left to
starve for hours between meals. My neice with profound diabetes cannot
carry her own medication, although she knows how to do her own finger-prick
tests and insulin injections with a "pen" style injector that would not be
dangerous for other children. Instead, her father must leave work twice
during school hours every day to check her blood and administer insulin
when necessary. Her parents had to fight to get the school to allow her to
carry and eat glucose tabs and sugary snacks in her "fanny pack" for when
she was feeling "Low." How is that in our childrens best interest, when we
must fight to have their basic needs cared for, or tell our children they
will just have to "Learn to wait" or "Hold it" ??
I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? Going to have to make another Star Trek
reference (a what if utopia.) Anyone seen how they handle "school"? They
have a single room with a small group of children of many ages together
(one room schoolhouse ring a bell?) computers available to use as readily
as blocks and clay for all ages. The children are mostly free to roam
around and do what they are interested in, and the "teachers" move about
taking an interest in the children's projects and offering assistance or
praise when needed and answering questions about anything they ask, when
they ask it. Sounds nice doesn't it?
Anyway, that's enough for now, as their show it over. But you get the idea
as to MY opinion of the capabilities of the School System of meeting our
children's needs.
Nanck K. in Idaho
>From: Gregg Thorn <thorn@...>OK, OK...I didn't have time to respond to this before, but as the boys are
>
>But why..........? Please indulge me a little here, and continue the
>follwing word with your own thoughts.
>"Because........................................................"
now absorbed in their favorite morning show (Zaboomafoo!) I will take the
time now.
>There are reasons why we all keep our kids at home - and there are differentWell for one thing, they are "OUR" children, while to beurocrats they are
>answers from different parents Sending them home is a good idea
>but only because we value our kids in a different light to what some
>bureaucrats do. so what are those differences.
faceless masses of "schoolchildren." Much like I was recently reminded
that for most Americans the Ethnic Albanian refugees from Kosovo have
become faceless nameless masses, and most folks are forgetting to look more
closely at the individual stories of REAL people and families. Many people
are so disconnected that they argue that we should not meddle in the
politics of other countries (Trekkies will relate this to the Star Fleet
Prime Directive.) But we obviously cannot ignore genocide like that. I
never lost my perspective, as I can't get the stroy of one particular
little boy out of my mind.
A similar situation can be equated to the School System. Many parents do
not get involved because they have "faith" in the system (My parents are a
case in point.) They are so enamored of the concept of public education
for all, that they sacrifice their children to the ideal. On the other
side of the fence we have the officials who do no want to get TOO involved
with our children ie: teaching them manners, values, sex education (not
until too late anyway,) culture. They consider these the domain of the
family (and rightly so!) and they just want to stick to the scholastic
facts. The problem is that there are so many parents who trust the school
system to "educate" their children, and do not draw a line with pure
scholastics. The biggest argument to homeschooling around here is usually
"What about Socialization?" In other words, what about culture, manners,
values, friendships, mentors..etc? Is school really the place our children
should be getting these things from? Even well intentioned parents who
think they are addressing these issues at home forget how many of them are
supplemented, or overridden completely, by the school environment.
We have no control over the environment at school, and the children are
often left mostly unsupervised, milling in large groups saying and doing
who knows what to each other. In my opinion, most of these children are
far too young to be so loosely supervised or left to make their own moral
decisions and deal with peer stress and academic stress that even college
students often have trouble handling. In contrast to the loose supervision
on the playground, outside of school grounds, or even in assemblies and
other forums at school, there is the classroom. There small children are
expected to sit at desks most of the day and act like tiny office workers.
Keeping their mouths shut, their butts in their chairs, doing what they are
told, not asking questions unless they are in the narrow current subject
field, NOT interperting assignments with creativity but performing as
directed, NOT rocking the boat.
They can't even go to the bathroom or take care of their other immediate
needs. Children with low blood sugar (like me, and my nephew) are left to
starve for hours between meals. My neice with profound diabetes cannot
carry her own medication, although she knows how to do her own finger-prick
tests and insulin injections with a "pen" style injector that would not be
dangerous for other children. Instead, her father must leave work twice
during school hours every day to check her blood and administer insulin
when necessary. Her parents had to fight to get the school to allow her to
carry and eat glucose tabs and sugary snacks in her "fanny pack" for when
she was feeling "Low." How is that in our childrens best interest, when we
must fight to have their basic needs cared for, or tell our children they
will just have to "Learn to wait" or "Hold it" ??
I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? Going to have to make another Star Trek
reference (a what if utopia.) Anyone seen how they handle "school"? They
have a single room with a small group of children of many ages together
(one room schoolhouse ring a bell?) computers available to use as readily
as blocks and clay for all ages. The children are mostly free to roam
around and do what they are interested in, and the "teachers" move about
taking an interest in the children's projects and offering assistance or
praise when needed and answering questions about anything they ask, when
they ask it. Sounds nice doesn't it?
Anyway, that's enough for now, as their show it over. But you get the idea
as to MY opinion of the capabilities of the School System of meeting our
children's needs.
Nanck K. in Idaho
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/18/99 11:25:36 AM EST, tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? >>
Nancy,
I could have hilighted your entire reply, but thought that might be a bit
much. However, I do agree with every word you wrote and want to say
applause, applause!
Teresa
<< I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? >>
Nancy,
I could have hilighted your entire reply, but thought that might be a bit
much. However, I do agree with every word you wrote and want to say
applause, applause!
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/18/99 8:25:28 AM, tn-k4of5@... writes:
<<I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? Going to have to make another Star Trek
reference (a what if utopia.) Anyone seen how they handle "school"? They
have a single room with a small group of children of many ages together
(one room schoolhouse ring a bell?) computers available to use as readily
as blocks and clay for all ages. The children are mostly free to roam
around and do what they are interested in, and the "teachers" move about
taking an interest in the children's projects and offering assistance or
praise when needed and answering questions about anything they ask, when
they ask it. Sounds nice doesn't it?>>
I really enjoyed your post. I'm happy to think that there is a little utopia
materializing in my home.... almost as if beamed down by a transporter. ;-)
Betsy
<<I don't think that public schools could make ENOUGH changes to make it a
healthy environment for children. I just don't think that the system is
emotionally, psychologically, or even physically healthy for our children,
so why would we send them there? Going to have to make another Star Trek
reference (a what if utopia.) Anyone seen how they handle "school"? They
have a single room with a small group of children of many ages together
(one room schoolhouse ring a bell?) computers available to use as readily
as blocks and clay for all ages. The children are mostly free to roam
around and do what they are interested in, and the "teachers" move about
taking an interest in the children's projects and offering assistance or
praise when needed and answering questions about anything they ask, when
they ask it. Sounds nice doesn't it?>>
I really enjoyed your post. I'm happy to think that there is a little utopia
materializing in my home.... almost as if beamed down by a transporter. ;-)
Betsy
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 12:50 PM 6/18/99 EDT, you wrote:
AOL IM all the time, but you don't answer me when I say hi. What gives? I
figured you just didn't like me...
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Hsmotgo@...Awww...gee, thanks (blushing) you are too kind. By the way, I see you on
>I could have hilighted your entire reply, but thought that might be a bit
>much. However, I do agree with every word you wrote and want to say
>applause, applause!
>Teresa
AOL IM all the time, but you don't answer me when I say hi. What gives? I
figured you just didn't like me...
Nanci K. in Idaho
FUN (Billy & Nancy)
I am a big fan of Star Trek, but have been disappointed in how they
portrayed children learning. It didn't seem vary imaginative of what the
future could be. Smaller classes, better teachers, better technology - just
what we keep hearing today is needed to improve schools. Deep Space Nine had
several episodes which showed this kind of school. When we started out, we
went through the debate of public school vs private school. As we looked at
different schools in the area, we saw that many of the private schools were
just better versions of school, and we realized that we didn't want just a
better school, we wanted something that was not school at all.
I like the Voyager version better. The one little girl born onboard learns
more through mentoring/apprentice relationships. She is treated with respect
and performs real duties. If she has an interest in something, she can
pursue it through the ship's computer or through access to the people who
have interest in that subject matter. She is shown learning from various
people she comes in contact with and by doing real things.
To quote John Holt:
"What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's
growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools,
but that it isn't a school at all."
Billy
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
F.U.N. News - FUN Books
Visit our web sites!
http://www.FUN-Books.com/
http://www.unschooling.org/
Subscribe to the FUN News on-line
newsletter. Send a message to:
[email protected]
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
portrayed children learning. It didn't seem vary imaginative of what the
future could be. Smaller classes, better teachers, better technology - just
what we keep hearing today is needed to improve schools. Deep Space Nine had
several episodes which showed this kind of school. When we started out, we
went through the debate of public school vs private school. As we looked at
different schools in the area, we saw that many of the private schools were
just better versions of school, and we realized that we didn't want just a
better school, we wanted something that was not school at all.
I like the Voyager version better. The one little girl born onboard learns
more through mentoring/apprentice relationships. She is treated with respect
and performs real duties. If she has an interest in something, she can
pursue it through the ship's computer or through access to the people who
have interest in that subject matter. She is shown learning from various
people she comes in contact with and by doing real things.
To quote John Holt:
"What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's
growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools,
but that it isn't a school at all."
Billy
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
F.U.N. News - FUN Books
Visit our web sites!
http://www.FUN-Books.com/
http://www.unschooling.org/
Subscribe to the FUN News on-line
newsletter. Send a message to:
[email protected]
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
>-----Original Message-----
>Going to have to make another Star Trek
>reference (a what if utopia.) Anyone seen how they handle "school"? They
>have a single room with a small group of children of many ages together
>(one room schoolhouse ring a bell?) computers available to use as readily
>as blocks and clay for all ages. The children are mostly free to roam
>around and do what they are interested in, and the "teachers" move about
>taking an interest in the children's projects and offering assistance or
>praise when needed and answering questions about anything they ask, when
>they ask it. Sounds nice doesn't it?>>
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 08:53 AM 6/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
improve. But, as I said, I don't feel they could 'improve' enough to be
the best way for children to learn. When I was in college, I was persuing
a degree in elementary education. I have always had an interest in child
psychology, in how children's minds work, and how learning takes place. I
also just love kids and had an interest in making their school experience
more fun and positive, because I remember VERY WELL what it was like to be
in their place (nod to Sandra.) But as I proceeded, it became more and
more apparent that I really could not do everything that I wanted to, and
teach in the way I was wanting, in a school environment. So I quit school
for a while to think things through.
Then I met my husband, and in what seems like no time at all, we were
married with two kids, and I had decided to homeschool my children instead
of trying to teach other people's. Then I discovered Unschooling, and
further adjusted my thinking from 'teacher' to 'co-learner.' I am so
excited about being able to help my children learn, grow and follow their
passions into adulthood in their own ways. The little girl on Voyager is a
great example of Unschooling, as the crew is her extended family and the
ship is her home.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: "FUN (Billy & Nancy)" <FUNLists@...>I agree totally. I was adressing the question of how schools could
>
>I am a big fan of Star Trek, but have been disappointed in how they
>portrayed children learning.
>I like the Voyager version better. The one little girl born onboard learns
>more through mentoring/apprentice relationships. She is treated with respect
>and performs real duties.
>To quote John Holt:
>"What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's
>growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools,
>but that it isn't a school at all."
>
>Billy
improve. But, as I said, I don't feel they could 'improve' enough to be
the best way for children to learn. When I was in college, I was persuing
a degree in elementary education. I have always had an interest in child
psychology, in how children's minds work, and how learning takes place. I
also just love kids and had an interest in making their school experience
more fun and positive, because I remember VERY WELL what it was like to be
in their place (nod to Sandra.) But as I proceeded, it became more and
more apparent that I really could not do everything that I wanted to, and
teach in the way I was wanting, in a school environment. So I quit school
for a while to think things through.
Then I met my husband, and in what seems like no time at all, we were
married with two kids, and I had decided to homeschool my children instead
of trying to teach other people's. Then I discovered Unschooling, and
further adjusted my thinking from 'teacher' to 'co-learner.' I am so
excited about being able to help my children learn, grow and follow their
passions into adulthood in their own ways. The little girl on Voyager is a
great example of Unschooling, as the crew is her extended family and the
ship is her home.
Nanci K. in Idaho
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>To quote John Holt:Oh yes! I forgot! I was going to throw in a quote also, about the issue
>"What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's
>growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools,
>but that it isn't a school at all."
>
>Billy
of respecting children as people and giving them real jobs and
responsibilities. Danny Kaye (yes, the actor) was a great philanthropist
for children and did many wonderful things for them. One of my all time
favorite qoutes is from him...it goes: "Treat a child as though they are
already the person they are capable of becoming."
Nanci K. in Idaho
Andi Kaufman
This is not meant to be personal against anyone person. But why are people
so intersted in discussing what is wrong with schools. I am here cus it is
an unschooling list. I am not here to or put down others ideas or ways of
doing things but to get support for the ideas and ideals of unschooling.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
so intersted in discussing what is wrong with schools. I am here cus it is
an unschooling list. I am not here to or put down others ideas or ways of
doing things but to get support for the ideas and ideals of unschooling.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 05:29 PM 6/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
might know, victims of traumatic experiences and emotional hurts often find
healing through talking about their feelings, memories, experiences, etc,
and working them through in that way with a sympathetic ear. I think part
of that healing, for me at least, is to see my children have much happier
childhoods, and to remember what was so awful about ps so that I can avoid
those types of situations with my children. Also I can answer them when
they eventually ask me "Mommy, how come we don't go to the regular school
like the neighbors?"
I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumatic
experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
ps experience. I also know that my life has been a series of choices, and
that some of those choices were poor ones due to unresolved issues that I
carry from ps that prevented me from going in a direction that might have
been better for me.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Andi Kaufman <tl2b@...>I think a lot of souls here are still recovering ps victims, and as you
>
>This is not meant to be personal against anyone person. But why are people
>so intersted in discussing what is wrong with schools. I am here cus it is
>an unschooling list. I am not here to or put down others ideas or ways of
>doing things but to get support for the ideas and ideals of unschooling.
>
>Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
> mom to Isaac
> tl2b@...
>
>Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
might know, victims of traumatic experiences and emotional hurts often find
healing through talking about their feelings, memories, experiences, etc,
and working them through in that way with a sympathetic ear. I think part
of that healing, for me at least, is to see my children have much happier
childhoods, and to remember what was so awful about ps so that I can avoid
those types of situations with my children. Also I can answer them when
they eventually ask me "Mommy, how come we don't go to the regular school
like the neighbors?"
I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumatic
experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
ps experience. I also know that my life has been a series of choices, and
that some of those choices were poor ones due to unresolved issues that I
carry from ps that prevented me from going in a direction that might have
been better for me.
Nanci K. in Idaho
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/20/99 6:24:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumatic
experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
ps experience. >>
I agree, Nanci. My ps experience was so bad, that I actually contemplated
suicide as a means of escape. For those that didn't have horrible ps years,
it's hard to explain. Of course, I've always been very sensitive.
Unschooling is one of the greatest"discoveries" I've made in my life and it
makes me happy to know that I can spare my children the pain that I had to
endure, even though I discovered unschooling after my children had to suffer
through years of ps.
I know that I've said this before, and not everyone agrees, but I really
think that ps is evil. It hurts innocent children. Some people never recover
from the damage.
I'm still working on it.
Mary Ellen.
tn-k4of5@... writes:
<< I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumatic
experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
ps experience. >>
I agree, Nanci. My ps experience was so bad, that I actually contemplated
suicide as a means of escape. For those that didn't have horrible ps years,
it's hard to explain. Of course, I've always been very sensitive.
Unschooling is one of the greatest"discoveries" I've made in my life and it
makes me happy to know that I can spare my children the pain that I had to
endure, even though I discovered unschooling after my children had to suffer
through years of ps.
I know that I've said this before, and not everyone agrees, but I really
think that ps is evil. It hurts innocent children. Some people never recover
from the damage.
I'm still working on it.
Mary Ellen.
Andi Kaufman
Nanci wrote:
would have been nasty. Which is not what this list is for. While I think
school can be traumatic and I had many traumas in school. My reaction was
how can you compare it to the sexual molestation and abuse some people go
thru. then i realized that you didnt. I did. SO this is where I am coming
from. COmparing does not do any good. so i will try to consentrate on what
you said.
Yes PS was traumatic for many people. ANd yes, I dont like it school in
general. But I know so many children and grown ups that have come out of
the system and are okay. Maybe it is just that they are younger kids and
havent been scared enough yet! or maybe the adults have dealt with it.
anyway, what I want to say is that I just dont think ranting about PS on
this list is what I am here for or what I thought this list was for. I
thought we were here to discuss unschooling and things around that. That is
what I was trying to say. I hope it came out lcearer this time.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
>I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumaticI have taken time to respond because my first reaction was viseral. and it
>experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
>emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
>ps experience.
would have been nasty. Which is not what this list is for. While I think
school can be traumatic and I had many traumas in school. My reaction was
how can you compare it to the sexual molestation and abuse some people go
thru. then i realized that you didnt. I did. SO this is where I am coming
from. COmparing does not do any good. so i will try to consentrate on what
you said.
Yes PS was traumatic for many people. ANd yes, I dont like it school in
general. But I know so many children and grown ups that have come out of
the system and are okay. Maybe it is just that they are younger kids and
havent been scared enough yet! or maybe the adults have dealt with it.
anyway, what I want to say is that I just dont think ranting about PS on
this list is what I am here for or what I thought this list was for. I
thought we were here to discuss unschooling and things around that. That is
what I was trying to say. I hope it came out lcearer this time.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 09:38 AM 6/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
don't think that there is a need to censor the discussion about ps, as I
believe it is helping some of us work through our issues about ps that may
hamper our children's Unschooling if left unresolved. But if you do not
have an interest in that particular line of discussion, there is no need to
enter it.
There are other conversations going on relating more immediatly to
unschooling right now on this list in which you can take part. If you have
a specific topic that you would like to raise - go for it! I know I am
interested in whatever you would like to talk about.
I believe this discussion got started because someone (Greg?) asked about
ways in which ps might change or improve, or what they might do
differently. All are valid questions when addressing the issue of
homeschooling, and gets into our reasons for wanting to homeschool in the
first place, which in turn leads to some of our negative experiences.
Incidentally, one of my ps memories (traumas?) was being sexually molested
by a boy who was held back three grades and was significantly older than me
and the other kids in the elementary school. I was 7. If I had not been
in public school, or if my parents had taken more of an interest in my
education rather than trusting me to the system....well.....
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Andi Kaufman <tl2b@...>As far as I can tell, we ARE talking about Unschooling all the time. I
>
>Nanci wrote:
>>I don't think I am being overly dramatic in referring to ps as a traumatic
>>experience, or to myself and others as victims. I know that I carry
>>emotional scars and psychological barriers today that are the result of my
>>ps experience.
>
>I have taken time to respond because my first reaction was viseral. and it
>would have been nasty. Which is not what this list is for.
>anyway, what I want to say is that I just dont think ranting about PS on
>this list is what I am here for or what I thought this list was for. I
>thought we were here to discuss unschooling and things around that. That is
>what I was trying to say. I hope it came out lcearer this time.
>
>Andi
don't think that there is a need to censor the discussion about ps, as I
believe it is helping some of us work through our issues about ps that may
hamper our children's Unschooling if left unresolved. But if you do not
have an interest in that particular line of discussion, there is no need to
enter it.
There are other conversations going on relating more immediatly to
unschooling right now on this list in which you can take part. If you have
a specific topic that you would like to raise - go for it! I know I am
interested in whatever you would like to talk about.
I believe this discussion got started because someone (Greg?) asked about
ways in which ps might change or improve, or what they might do
differently. All are valid questions when addressing the issue of
homeschooling, and gets into our reasons for wanting to homeschool in the
first place, which in turn leads to some of our negative experiences.
Incidentally, one of my ps memories (traumas?) was being sexually molested
by a boy who was held back three grades and was significantly older than me
and the other kids in the elementary school. I was 7. If I had not been
in public school, or if my parents had taken more of an interest in my
education rather than trusting me to the system....well.....
Nanci K. in Idaho
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>I was also going to say, but forgot, that I don't think ps is evil. It is
>Yes PS was traumatic for many people. ANd yes, I dont like it school in
>general. But I know so many children and grown ups that have come out of
>the system and are okay. Maybe it is just that they are younger kids and
>havent been scared enough yet! or maybe the adults have dealt with it.
>
>Andi
just not the best place for children, the way it is set up. Socially and
academically. Some people flourish in adversity, or are fortunate enough
to have good teachers, or at least not damaging teachers. Others have such
positive social experiences that they have very strong egos. But i think
for many people it is very hard, and not a lot of fun, at it's most benign.
Nanci K. in Idaho
[email protected]
Because I didn't have big school trauma, I need to hear stories from people
who did. I often assume that if my kids want to go to school I'll let them.
Since they haven't called me on that assertion I'm not positive. Evidence
that not all had as good a time as I did in school balances my "la la" vision
of the past.
I think if we ALL were saying "School is a horror show for every attendee"
then we would need to have some "But I liked school" stories to balance that.
There are things to miss about school (plays and choir and marching band?)
and things to avoid doing at home (forcing "learning" by calendar and age?).
Sandra
who did. I often assume that if my kids want to go to school I'll let them.
Since they haven't called me on that assertion I'm not positive. Evidence
that not all had as good a time as I did in school balances my "la la" vision
of the past.
I think if we ALL were saying "School is a horror show for every attendee"
then we would need to have some "But I liked school" stories to balance that.
There are things to miss about school (plays and choir and marching band?)
and things to avoid doing at home (forcing "learning" by calendar and age?).
Sandra
Andi Kaufman
Nanci wrote:
part of it.
and I do agree that terrible things can heppen in schools. I am just not
interested in talking about it cus it upsets me and there is nothing I am
willing to do to change it right now. I have other things I am working on.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
>As far as I can tell, we ARE talking about Unschooling all the time. Iyou are right. I am sorry if i offended anyone. I can just delete or not be
>don't think that there is a need to censor the discussion about ps, as I
>believe it is helping some of us work through our issues about ps that may
>hamper our children's Unschooling if left unresolved. But if you do not
>have an interest in that particular line of discussion, there is no need to
>enter it.
part of it.
>Incidentally, one of my ps memories (traumas?) was being sexually molestedI am truly sorry.
>by a boy who was held back three grades and was significantly older than me
>and the other kids in the elementary school. I was 7. If I had not been
>in public school, or if my parents had taken more of an interest in my
>education rather than trusting me to the system....well.....
and I do agree that terrible things can heppen in schools. I am just not
interested in talking about it cus it upsets me and there is nothing I am
willing to do to change it right now. I have other things I am working on.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Andi Kaufman
>I was also going to say, but forgot, that I don't think ps is evil. It isThere we totally agree nanci.
>just not the best place for children, the way it is set up. Socially and
>academically. Some people flourish in adversity, or are fortunate enough
>to have good teachers, or at least not damaging teachers. Others have such
>positive social experiences that they have very strong egos. But i think
>for many people it is very hard, and not a lot of fun, at it's most benign.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
Andi Kaufman
Sandra wrote:
without going to school. And I do nto think school has much to offer except
if you need to escape a abusive household. I will say that although i hated
school and was teased it was sure better then being at home with my step
father.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
>There are things to miss about school (plays and choir and marching band?)Yeah but you can get into acting groups and sports group and even bands
>and things to avoid doing at home (forcing "learning" by calendar and age?).
without going to school. And I do nto think school has much to offer except
if you need to escape a abusive household. I will say that although i hated
school and was teased it was sure better then being at home with my step
father.
Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...
Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!
[email protected]
Very well said!
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
At 07:11 PM 6/21/99 EDT, you wrote:
posted under this topic....
;-)
Nanci K. in Idaho
>From: Any1canU2@...Sorry, but who were you speaking to? There are a number of folks who have
>
>Very well said!
posted under this topic....
;-)
Nanci K. in Idaho
Gregg Thorn
Thanks Nancy _ I felt it was a relevant issue otherwise I wouldn't of raised
it - it was my opening gambit on this listserv - another aussie home
schooler told me about it - and as a lot of our own home schooling community
are a buit reluctant to talk about their experiences and offer positive
solutions, I thought I'd just connect with a community that has survived a
lot longer than us here in Perth, Western Australia. Our particular h/s
group is made up of a really good mix of humanist-types and Christian-types
- otherw have said that we have something special over here because of that
flexible configuration - and we all like it this way, so we can learn from
each other.
Here's a coopy of an article I'm writing for our July issue newslwetter.
(Oh, yeah, anyone got any true life h/s stories they would allow me to
publish - we still need to keep focussed on wghat schools and ttheir
administrators do wrong.
Article:
Gregg Thorn
When I look at the �culture� that schools have become, I get the feeling
that something is amiss, something is wrong. Sure, we all seem to survive
our own school culture, to some degree or another, but still there was
always an unpleasant or intimidating or frustrating or
disincentive-to-learning factor that was part of our school life. And maybe
todays school culture is different to what it was for us who are now the
parents.
But what is it that niggles away at my total
acceptance of the modern school system as the �only way to go�?
To help me analyse my feeling I�ve tried to break down my apprehension into
definable
areas:-
Parental Involvement:
For me, life is more than schooling, and the priority in the education of
my children is, firstly, their character - then their ability to relate
appropriately, with a right degree of concern, to other people. Sure, the
ability to earn money - the
medium by which we buy, sell, trade and therefore exist on a daily basis in
this society - is important, but without the foundation of integrity and
compassion and the ability to discern right from wrong, the earning of money
can become a crutch that leads psychologically to self-destructive habits
and lifestyle.
The parent is the primary character-teacher - not the custodial carer, not
the school teacher, not the �district officer�, not the legislators or the
policy makers. Character training comes mainly from observing mum and dad,
uncles and aunts, grandparents, and other influential adults in a child's
life. But those influential adults must express love towards that child -
�love� here, is the dominant ingredient for forming character.
Without love it�s very difficult for a balanced value system to form, let
alone a balanced emotional, and social, outlook. So when kids are deprived
of this parental presence for a whole 7 or more hours a day, five days a
week - one wonders what replaces that intimate and �normal� input, or if
anything indeed does replace it.
I personally feel that parental involvement should not only be encouraged in
schools, but should be essential. For me this is one aspect of true
�community schooling� that really starts to normalise the limited and
artificial similar-aged peer socialisation that exists today in the current
school system.
Also, the presence of community, in the form of parents, especially in the
playground area of the schoolyard during recess and lunchtime and before and
after the �classroom� hours of school, would most certainly lower the
incidence of bullying, drug trafficking, negative peer behaviours, abuse of
teachers, and would also decrease the opportunity for paedophilic
activities.
Teachers:
I personally know some school teachers, and there are a number of home
schooling parents who are, or have been, teachers. School teachers can be
the most concerned and caring people - some are - but they can�t take the
place of parents, can�t develop the same kind of relationship with a child
that a parent has - it�s not their role, nor do I know of any who think of
it as their role. Their role is to deliver an educational package to the
students who are compulsorily put into their charge. Not many families have
25 or more kids in their care for 7 hrs of daylight time, five days a week -
but teachers have to operate in such a situation. It�s not a natural setting
that is found in any human family, so the teachers shouldn�t expect, nor be
expected, to be �family� to their students. Their role is to impart
knowledge - and impart it according to a procedure laid down by others -
others who are not as intimately involved in this imparting of knowledge as
teachers are. Lets not examine teachers in this analysis of the system -
lets examine the system, and the mindset that can only envisage this type of
system as being the �best for all�.
�Custodial Care� mentality:
The family, the parents, and the extended family, are the natural and
optimal nurturing growth unit for any child. �Custodial care� - often touted
as a viable alternative to the family - can never ever provide the nurturing
and emotionally balanced environment that the family unit can - or indeed
that a �fostering� family unit can.
Yes, sadly, there is abuse in individual families, and even cultural forms
of �abuse� among certain ethnographic philosophies. But the record of
custodial care in the area of abuse generally far outweighs the negative and
detrimental effect that any one individual family can have on the lives and
potential of children.
The ABC�s weekly TV current affairs item, The 7:30 Report, recently aired a
story documenting a report on the widespread institutionalised abuse of
children in both state-run, and church-run, �children�s homes� in Queensland
- the lesson is that its easy for abuse to happen where many children are
confined in a location with a minimum number of �carers� - none of whom are
their parents - and even where the level of concern for the children is of
the highest quality. Good intentions cannot, by themselves, replace loving
parents. On the same TV program was a story about young people in sport and
how their attitudes and psychosomatic faculties were focused into
unhealthy and unrealistic expectations, because the sport became the sole
provider of esteem and acceptance and popularity.
Much like the value we place on �education� today, can warp the outlook of
young minds because the more important aspects of life are de-emphasised or
even disregarded, in favour of the nebulous virtue of a �good, high income�
job. Suicide does not discriminate between different income levels.
Saturation Education:
I realise that it�s a good thing to equip our kids with lots of relevant
information for their future, not only to help them learn about potential
career areas, but also to help them learn about aspects of the big wild
world around us, what makes it tick, etc. But the forcing of this style of
information acquisition seems to benefit only some, not all. For some, this
style becomes stressful, not just information overload, but overloading
their personal unique areas of competency and understanding. It can be a
mediocre experience - not punctuated with high and low spots of consuming
interest, but uniformly bland and therefore undigestible in its presented
format. Its like you�re trying to conquer a disease with a cocktail of
antibiotics - not appreciating the synergy of some of the chemical
ingredients, nor the diverse range of strengths/weaknesses of the individual
immune systems - instead of tailoring the antibiotic to the specific
individual and the specific disease.
To me, a �love of learning� is first required before any learning strategy
can be effective - this love of learning, once activated, will show certain
tendencies towards certain subjects of interest. Then we can use different
strategies to help the child to satisfy its desire to learn about that
certain subject. All of this will automatically involve the core tools of
reading, writing, calculating - and, in the course of natural events, lead
to other subjects of interest.
As an adult I just turn off when faced with any subjects relating to
�economics�, or �accountancy�, or �statistics� - yet I still use a necessary
modicum of those subjects in my daily life - but I don�t need to be an
expert in them to live my life competently. As a window cleaner I don�t need
a lot of the information I was subjected to at school, but my general
knowledge gained from personal interest in a number of subjects, helps me to
successfully �socialise� with my clientele while I clean their windows. (It
slows down the dollar per hour rate too - but hey, life�s more than work,
more than money, more than economic rationalism - life�s about
relationships!)
As a science journalist I come across a whole spectrum of matters that
interest me - but I should be a failure because I�m not an academic!
Shouldn't I? After all, school failed to make me an academic - so I
shouldn�t even attempt to be a science journalist. No, not so. My love of,
and interest in, a variety of science matters carries me through - I just
ask a lot more questions, and then, hopefully, try to write them down in a
style that is understandable and even informative - without being academic.
That�s another point about our current schooling system�s educational
strategies - it�s more oriented towards the academically gifted ones. That�s
great, if your gift is academics, or the logical/mathematical/linguistic
type of �intelligence� - but sad if your areas of intelligence are quite
different, e.g., musical, spatial, interpersonal, intrapersonal, bodily
kinesthetic, etc. What I�m saying here is that it should be a case of
�horses for courses� when it comes to learning strategies - note, I said
learning strategies, not teaching strategies - we need to consider both
aspects of the educational process here.
Lots of kids suffer, in various ways, from their inability to process the
information fed to them in this one �saturation� strategy. They can react
negatively, or be the target for antisocial behaviour because they can be
seen as dumb or weak, and other students, unable to fit in also, seem to
want to exercise control-freak behaviour over these �misfits� so that they
themselves can feel justified, or �cool�, in a system that has failed to
cater for all types of learning requirements and speeds and
vulnerabilities.
Don�t the educational authorities realise the negative mental impact that
the words �dumb� or �below average� can have on a growing child, or
understand the impact of negative peer pressure, or the lack of
�sensitivity towards sensitivities� that exists in the artificial construct
of the schoolyard or even in the classroom itself. Don�t they understand
that not every child learns at the same rate, and to be promoted to the next
grade without having fully understood the current grade could be setting the
child up for �failure�.?
(In the field of Human Resource Management it�s called the �Peter Principle�
- promoted beyond your ability.)
Makes you wonder doesn�t it? If the educational authorities were truly
interested in the learning potential and the mental welfare of our children,
they would, themselves, take time out to learn about the real needs of
children in this very complex and very dangerous society that we live in. A
good education is not the primary tool for survival in the modern world of
vocational and avocational careers - but a good character and a love of
learning are certainly better foundations for a satisfying career to be
built upon. And these things are not part of the school system�s curriculum.
Conclusion:
I think the challenge is for the bureaucrats to get off their �custodial
care� crusade and start to be a big help, rather than a �big stick�, to the
�home schooling� community of Australia. The punitive aspects of the West
Australian 1997 School Education Bill clearly show that the mentality at the
top has to change - from authoritarian and �I know best�, to �hey, we�re all
in this together, how can we help each other, what can we learn from each
other�. Parents have to let go of the apron strings when their children
grow into adulthood and are no longer their responsibility - why can�t the
�custodial carers� realise that the education of other people�s children was
never their right or responsibility in the first place.
We don�t just need a home schooling board to oversee contentious issues that
can arise between the Ed Dept and home schoolers, we need a board of home
schoolers and teachers and educational psychologists alike to sit down and
nut out a better deal for our children - mentally, emotionally, and
educationally. I�m sure such a think tank could come up with some very
helpful positive and creative ways where the Ed Dept could become a real
positive force in the education of home schooling children, taking a
proactive helpful role, rather than the current punitive harmful one that it
seems to pursue.
But the development of character, and construction of a balanced emotional
outlook, I believe, should be left to us parents. And while I welcome a
general societal concern for the wellbeing of all children, I don�t believe
that anyone but the parent has a �custodial� right or responsibility to
their own children.
A different style of learning, as in various �home schooling� strategies,
does not necessarily put a child at moral risk - but maybe a school campus
that allows bullying (of various types), drugs, anti-social behaviour,
abuses of teachers (leading to lack of respect for authority in general),
negative peer pressure, and negative �pigeon-holing�, does. It�s something
that all concerned parents and teachers need to think about.
(PS - My headmaster, at Double Bay Primary School in NSW, was one of the
nicest and encouraging teachers I have ever met - he was a real
�grandfather� - under his tutelage I once got 298 out of 300 for arithmetic.
[Other teachers didn�t have the same effect on me.] So I hope by this
article that I don�t dishonour his profession or his love for his fellow man
or his concern for the kids in his charge. Thanks, Mr Hoorigan!)
End of article
These things ap[ply to our schooling system - but maybe some aspects apply
to yours as well??
Gollumgregg - a lover of hobbits - especially purged, gutted, filleted and
roasted over a slow fire. Cordon Bleu my Precious!
Pls send cc to gollum@... as infrequent problems plague the curtin
address
----------
it - it was my opening gambit on this listserv - another aussie home
schooler told me about it - and as a lot of our own home schooling community
are a buit reluctant to talk about their experiences and offer positive
solutions, I thought I'd just connect with a community that has survived a
lot longer than us here in Perth, Western Australia. Our particular h/s
group is made up of a really good mix of humanist-types and Christian-types
- otherw have said that we have something special over here because of that
flexible configuration - and we all like it this way, so we can learn from
each other.
Here's a coopy of an article I'm writing for our July issue newslwetter.
(Oh, yeah, anyone got any true life h/s stories they would allow me to
publish - we still need to keep focussed on wghat schools and ttheir
administrators do wrong.
Article:
Gregg Thorn
When I look at the �culture� that schools have become, I get the feeling
that something is amiss, something is wrong. Sure, we all seem to survive
our own school culture, to some degree or another, but still there was
always an unpleasant or intimidating or frustrating or
disincentive-to-learning factor that was part of our school life. And maybe
todays school culture is different to what it was for us who are now the
parents.
But what is it that niggles away at my total
acceptance of the modern school system as the �only way to go�?
To help me analyse my feeling I�ve tried to break down my apprehension into
definable
areas:-
Parental Involvement:
For me, life is more than schooling, and the priority in the education of
my children is, firstly, their character - then their ability to relate
appropriately, with a right degree of concern, to other people. Sure, the
ability to earn money - the
medium by which we buy, sell, trade and therefore exist on a daily basis in
this society - is important, but without the foundation of integrity and
compassion and the ability to discern right from wrong, the earning of money
can become a crutch that leads psychologically to self-destructive habits
and lifestyle.
The parent is the primary character-teacher - not the custodial carer, not
the school teacher, not the �district officer�, not the legislators or the
policy makers. Character training comes mainly from observing mum and dad,
uncles and aunts, grandparents, and other influential adults in a child's
life. But those influential adults must express love towards that child -
�love� here, is the dominant ingredient for forming character.
Without love it�s very difficult for a balanced value system to form, let
alone a balanced emotional, and social, outlook. So when kids are deprived
of this parental presence for a whole 7 or more hours a day, five days a
week - one wonders what replaces that intimate and �normal� input, or if
anything indeed does replace it.
I personally feel that parental involvement should not only be encouraged in
schools, but should be essential. For me this is one aspect of true
�community schooling� that really starts to normalise the limited and
artificial similar-aged peer socialisation that exists today in the current
school system.
Also, the presence of community, in the form of parents, especially in the
playground area of the schoolyard during recess and lunchtime and before and
after the �classroom� hours of school, would most certainly lower the
incidence of bullying, drug trafficking, negative peer behaviours, abuse of
teachers, and would also decrease the opportunity for paedophilic
activities.
Teachers:
I personally know some school teachers, and there are a number of home
schooling parents who are, or have been, teachers. School teachers can be
the most concerned and caring people - some are - but they can�t take the
place of parents, can�t develop the same kind of relationship with a child
that a parent has - it�s not their role, nor do I know of any who think of
it as their role. Their role is to deliver an educational package to the
students who are compulsorily put into their charge. Not many families have
25 or more kids in their care for 7 hrs of daylight time, five days a week -
but teachers have to operate in such a situation. It�s not a natural setting
that is found in any human family, so the teachers shouldn�t expect, nor be
expected, to be �family� to their students. Their role is to impart
knowledge - and impart it according to a procedure laid down by others -
others who are not as intimately involved in this imparting of knowledge as
teachers are. Lets not examine teachers in this analysis of the system -
lets examine the system, and the mindset that can only envisage this type of
system as being the �best for all�.
�Custodial Care� mentality:
The family, the parents, and the extended family, are the natural and
optimal nurturing growth unit for any child. �Custodial care� - often touted
as a viable alternative to the family - can never ever provide the nurturing
and emotionally balanced environment that the family unit can - or indeed
that a �fostering� family unit can.
Yes, sadly, there is abuse in individual families, and even cultural forms
of �abuse� among certain ethnographic philosophies. But the record of
custodial care in the area of abuse generally far outweighs the negative and
detrimental effect that any one individual family can have on the lives and
potential of children.
The ABC�s weekly TV current affairs item, The 7:30 Report, recently aired a
story documenting a report on the widespread institutionalised abuse of
children in both state-run, and church-run, �children�s homes� in Queensland
- the lesson is that its easy for abuse to happen where many children are
confined in a location with a minimum number of �carers� - none of whom are
their parents - and even where the level of concern for the children is of
the highest quality. Good intentions cannot, by themselves, replace loving
parents. On the same TV program was a story about young people in sport and
how their attitudes and psychosomatic faculties were focused into
unhealthy and unrealistic expectations, because the sport became the sole
provider of esteem and acceptance and popularity.
Much like the value we place on �education� today, can warp the outlook of
young minds because the more important aspects of life are de-emphasised or
even disregarded, in favour of the nebulous virtue of a �good, high income�
job. Suicide does not discriminate between different income levels.
Saturation Education:
I realise that it�s a good thing to equip our kids with lots of relevant
information for their future, not only to help them learn about potential
career areas, but also to help them learn about aspects of the big wild
world around us, what makes it tick, etc. But the forcing of this style of
information acquisition seems to benefit only some, not all. For some, this
style becomes stressful, not just information overload, but overloading
their personal unique areas of competency and understanding. It can be a
mediocre experience - not punctuated with high and low spots of consuming
interest, but uniformly bland and therefore undigestible in its presented
format. Its like you�re trying to conquer a disease with a cocktail of
antibiotics - not appreciating the synergy of some of the chemical
ingredients, nor the diverse range of strengths/weaknesses of the individual
immune systems - instead of tailoring the antibiotic to the specific
individual and the specific disease.
To me, a �love of learning� is first required before any learning strategy
can be effective - this love of learning, once activated, will show certain
tendencies towards certain subjects of interest. Then we can use different
strategies to help the child to satisfy its desire to learn about that
certain subject. All of this will automatically involve the core tools of
reading, writing, calculating - and, in the course of natural events, lead
to other subjects of interest.
As an adult I just turn off when faced with any subjects relating to
�economics�, or �accountancy�, or �statistics� - yet I still use a necessary
modicum of those subjects in my daily life - but I don�t need to be an
expert in them to live my life competently. As a window cleaner I don�t need
a lot of the information I was subjected to at school, but my general
knowledge gained from personal interest in a number of subjects, helps me to
successfully �socialise� with my clientele while I clean their windows. (It
slows down the dollar per hour rate too - but hey, life�s more than work,
more than money, more than economic rationalism - life�s about
relationships!)
As a science journalist I come across a whole spectrum of matters that
interest me - but I should be a failure because I�m not an academic!
Shouldn't I? After all, school failed to make me an academic - so I
shouldn�t even attempt to be a science journalist. No, not so. My love of,
and interest in, a variety of science matters carries me through - I just
ask a lot more questions, and then, hopefully, try to write them down in a
style that is understandable and even informative - without being academic.
That�s another point about our current schooling system�s educational
strategies - it�s more oriented towards the academically gifted ones. That�s
great, if your gift is academics, or the logical/mathematical/linguistic
type of �intelligence� - but sad if your areas of intelligence are quite
different, e.g., musical, spatial, interpersonal, intrapersonal, bodily
kinesthetic, etc. What I�m saying here is that it should be a case of
�horses for courses� when it comes to learning strategies - note, I said
learning strategies, not teaching strategies - we need to consider both
aspects of the educational process here.
Lots of kids suffer, in various ways, from their inability to process the
information fed to them in this one �saturation� strategy. They can react
negatively, or be the target for antisocial behaviour because they can be
seen as dumb or weak, and other students, unable to fit in also, seem to
want to exercise control-freak behaviour over these �misfits� so that they
themselves can feel justified, or �cool�, in a system that has failed to
cater for all types of learning requirements and speeds and
vulnerabilities.
Don�t the educational authorities realise the negative mental impact that
the words �dumb� or �below average� can have on a growing child, or
understand the impact of negative peer pressure, or the lack of
�sensitivity towards sensitivities� that exists in the artificial construct
of the schoolyard or even in the classroom itself. Don�t they understand
that not every child learns at the same rate, and to be promoted to the next
grade without having fully understood the current grade could be setting the
child up for �failure�.?
(In the field of Human Resource Management it�s called the �Peter Principle�
- promoted beyond your ability.)
Makes you wonder doesn�t it? If the educational authorities were truly
interested in the learning potential and the mental welfare of our children,
they would, themselves, take time out to learn about the real needs of
children in this very complex and very dangerous society that we live in. A
good education is not the primary tool for survival in the modern world of
vocational and avocational careers - but a good character and a love of
learning are certainly better foundations for a satisfying career to be
built upon. And these things are not part of the school system�s curriculum.
Conclusion:
I think the challenge is for the bureaucrats to get off their �custodial
care� crusade and start to be a big help, rather than a �big stick�, to the
�home schooling� community of Australia. The punitive aspects of the West
Australian 1997 School Education Bill clearly show that the mentality at the
top has to change - from authoritarian and �I know best�, to �hey, we�re all
in this together, how can we help each other, what can we learn from each
other�. Parents have to let go of the apron strings when their children
grow into adulthood and are no longer their responsibility - why can�t the
�custodial carers� realise that the education of other people�s children was
never their right or responsibility in the first place.
We don�t just need a home schooling board to oversee contentious issues that
can arise between the Ed Dept and home schoolers, we need a board of home
schoolers and teachers and educational psychologists alike to sit down and
nut out a better deal for our children - mentally, emotionally, and
educationally. I�m sure such a think tank could come up with some very
helpful positive and creative ways where the Ed Dept could become a real
positive force in the education of home schooling children, taking a
proactive helpful role, rather than the current punitive harmful one that it
seems to pursue.
But the development of character, and construction of a balanced emotional
outlook, I believe, should be left to us parents. And while I welcome a
general societal concern for the wellbeing of all children, I don�t believe
that anyone but the parent has a �custodial� right or responsibility to
their own children.
A different style of learning, as in various �home schooling� strategies,
does not necessarily put a child at moral risk - but maybe a school campus
that allows bullying (of various types), drugs, anti-social behaviour,
abuses of teachers (leading to lack of respect for authority in general),
negative peer pressure, and negative �pigeon-holing�, does. It�s something
that all concerned parents and teachers need to think about.
(PS - My headmaster, at Double Bay Primary School in NSW, was one of the
nicest and encouraging teachers I have ever met - he was a real
�grandfather� - under his tutelage I once got 298 out of 300 for arithmetic.
[Other teachers didn�t have the same effect on me.] So I hope by this
article that I don�t dishonour his profession or his love for his fellow man
or his concern for the kids in his charge. Thanks, Mr Hoorigan!)
End of article
These things ap[ply to our schooling system - but maybe some aspects apply
to yours as well??
Gollumgregg - a lover of hobbits - especially purged, gutted, filleted and
roasted over a slow fire. Cordon Bleu my Precious!
Pls send cc to gollum@... as infrequent problems plague the curtin
address
----------
> From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>(snip)
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] School System Questions Addressed
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:01:18 -0600
>I believe this discussion got started because someone (Greg?) asked about(snip)
>ways in which ps might change or improve, or what they might do
>differently. All are valid questions when addressing the issue of
>homeschooling, and gets into our reasons for wanting to homeschool in the
>first place, which in turn leads to some of our negative experiences.
>Nanci K. in Idaho
>