FW: Music
Tonia Champ-Doran
From: toniacd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Music
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:33:12 +0000
Hi Cally --
My 11 year old daughter was interested in learning electric guitar and keyboards. We decided to purchase each when we could along with some excellent dvd's from Homespun Tapes. A gentle introduction to an interest. She loves being free to design her own end game, create, and lead her own process. Interest in learning, and choice are critical. She will acquire and advance the skills she desires as she deems and is free to request additional resources if she would like them. It's ok if she changes course or changes her mind. I expect she will. I do it all the time. As a matter of fact, she has morphed by discovering she loves writing songs more than instrument accompaniant to established work....She is in process -- gathering information about herself and her interests and most importantly, how she would like to pursue and express those interests. There are many ways to explore a thing....I try not to get married to one way or the "right way" and encourage others to do the same.
It may help those who are advising that your children stick with their lessons to understand the child's resistance if you frame it in this way ---- Your partner, who loves you dearly, has decided to sign you up for something he believes will be a great learning experience, enrich your life, and hopes you will enjoy -- all without your consent (?) (could also be with!) In addition to scheduled class time, there is outside class work required to reinforce and progress your developing skills. Even if it was something you initially /always wanted to try -- your time, freedom, preferences, and choice have been, well, kind of hijacked. You are no longer in control but being led, albeit gently, down a path designed by another even though they may have your best interests at heart. Although you could love the experience and even be thankful that someone else gifted you with handling the details of the experience, you could also find out that it was not what you expected, not how you wanted to experience or learn the thing, decide that you would like to devote your time to other interests instead...or have a host of other discoveries unique to you (and all valid learning experiences in my book).
If it happened that you changed your mind about this learning experience that your dear one arranged for you... (or even you arranged for you) I believe your input would be respected by your loved ones who would, of course, ideally honor your feelings, believing only you genuinely know you. People opt out of experiences that do not suit them all the time --jobs, relationships, learning paths, etc. It's necessary and healthy to grow responsibility for your own well being with confidence in your choices. A child's choices matter, too. That is how they grow and learn about themselves, their world, their options. Discuss, debate, and discover with them.
It comes down to trusting, believing, honoring, respecting, talking, and listening to those you care about. All will discover things, feel things, learn things -- sometimes differently than expected. If one requires or forces someone to do something, still, the lesson outcome is up for grabs with a possible dose of resentment thrown in.
Learning is always a process, not merely an end game. I try to find the many possibilities of the journey exciting ,or, at the very least, interesting...and accept that the ending might be different than one I would choose to imagine. Best to you -- Tonia
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Music
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:33:12 +0000
Hi Cally --
My 11 year old daughter was interested in learning electric guitar and keyboards. We decided to purchase each when we could along with some excellent dvd's from Homespun Tapes. A gentle introduction to an interest. She loves being free to design her own end game, create, and lead her own process. Interest in learning, and choice are critical. She will acquire and advance the skills she desires as she deems and is free to request additional resources if she would like them. It's ok if she changes course or changes her mind. I expect she will. I do it all the time. As a matter of fact, she has morphed by discovering she loves writing songs more than instrument accompaniant to established work....She is in process -- gathering information about herself and her interests and most importantly, how she would like to pursue and express those interests. There are many ways to explore a thing....I try not to get married to one way or the "right way" and encourage others to do the same.
It may help those who are advising that your children stick with their lessons to understand the child's resistance if you frame it in this way ---- Your partner, who loves you dearly, has decided to sign you up for something he believes will be a great learning experience, enrich your life, and hopes you will enjoy -- all without your consent (?) (could also be with!) In addition to scheduled class time, there is outside class work required to reinforce and progress your developing skills. Even if it was something you initially /always wanted to try -- your time, freedom, preferences, and choice have been, well, kind of hijacked. You are no longer in control but being led, albeit gently, down a path designed by another even though they may have your best interests at heart. Although you could love the experience and even be thankful that someone else gifted you with handling the details of the experience, you could also find out that it was not what you expected, not how you wanted to experience or learn the thing, decide that you would like to devote your time to other interests instead...or have a host of other discoveries unique to you (and all valid learning experiences in my book).
If it happened that you changed your mind about this learning experience that your dear one arranged for you... (or even you arranged for you) I believe your input would be respected by your loved ones who would, of course, ideally honor your feelings, believing only you genuinely know you. People opt out of experiences that do not suit them all the time --jobs, relationships, learning paths, etc. It's necessary and healthy to grow responsibility for your own well being with confidence in your choices. A child's choices matter, too. That is how they grow and learn about themselves, their world, their options. Discuss, debate, and discover with them.
It comes down to trusting, believing, honoring, respecting, talking, and listening to those you care about. All will discover things, feel things, learn things -- sometimes differently than expected. If one requires or forces someone to do something, still, the lesson outcome is up for grabs with a possible dose of resentment thrown in.
Learning is always a process, not merely an end game. I try to find the many possibilities of the journey exciting ,or, at the very least, interesting...and accept that the ending might be different than one I would choose to imagine. Best to you -- Tonia
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. See how.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Robin Bentley
> Your partner, who loves you dearly, has decided to sign you up forMy husband did this with the best of intentions. I had talked about
> something he believes will be a great learning experience, enrich
> your life, and hopes you will enjoy -- all without your consent
wanting a harp when I was little (I got a guitar instead, which I
enjoyed playing until college) and we chatted over the years about me
maybe still wanting one. He looked into buying a harp about 20 years
ago, but only found concert harps for a few thousand bucks (not in our
budget). I took a lesson or two on a small pedal harp about 10 years
ago, but it wasn't working out for me time-wise then.
My 50th birthday rolled around and I was in for a surprise. We went on
a 2 hour drive, ending up down a dirt road with me thinking we were
going to look at a vacation cabin or something. It turned out that
he'd bought me a Celtic lap harp and we were visiting the harp maker
to pick it up! The harp came with an introductory lesson and he had
booked that, too. When he told me that this was my surprise, I blurted
out "No, I don't want to do that!"
I had moved past the harp-wanting and was content not to have one. He
hadn't talked about a harp with me in years. I felt a bit blindsided,
but when I thought about it, I knew he had been looking and looking
and finding the right time and place and everything to do this. I felt
bad about how I reacted (though it was honest, it wasn't especially
kind). So, I went in and held my harp, enjoyed the lesson and headed
home with a beautiful new instrument and a beginner's CD. I looked
into lessons with the harp-builder nearby, but I was also working
towards an Editing certificate at university. That occupied my time,
but I did go about learning how to play a song on the harp. My husband
loved the sound of my playing and I was liking it, too.
We took the harp to my parents' place that year (2006) for Christmas
and I made an attempt at playing the new song. My dad said "well,
you're not very good at it, are you?" I not only stopped playing
right there and then, I haven't picked it up since. I decided, though,
that this year *I* wanted to make the decision about learning to play
and I'm heading to a harp camp put on by my harp-builder (and fabulous
musician) at the end of this month!
So, a number things conspired to make me less than enthusiastic for 4
years or so. My husband made a huge assumption about my continuing
need for a harp; he assumed I would like a surprise (not this one, so
much <g>); he expected that my dream had been fulfilled and that I
would really thank him for it; he hoped that I would play and play
often; my dad made that rude comment (which I guess I should have
expected, given his history with those sorts of things); and husband
now and again showed his disappointment that my harp just sat in a
corner, taking up space. I was also embarrassed to be put in a
position of taking a lesson I didn't prepare for mentally and trying
to be happy about the whole thing. I felt a bit resentful, in spite of
knowing the trouble he went to and the sweet thought he put into the
whole experience. I felt guilty about that. All in all, not a recipe
for joyful learning.
My dad died a couple of years ago now and my husband has seen my
delight in my new passion for hula and things Hawai'ian. I have space
to really *want* to learn to play the harp now, because the pressure
is off. I can't wait for my weekend away on my own, surrounded by
other beginning harpists and hammered dulcimer players. And I'm
planning to learn how to play Hawai'ian music on the harp to add to my
'ukulele lessons. I've been singing with an unschooling parents' rock
band, so music is returning to my life in a big way. Because *I* want
it.
Robin B.
Cally
My son 14 has announced that he wants to go back to school. He feels isolated
and would like to be around kids his own age. My daughter 11 has also decided
she wants to return to school. After emotionally exhausting myself, I am not
sure what to do next. As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in.
However I also understand how they feel. Here in "uppercrusted" CT, the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend).
First I cried because now that they want to go back, they are not "prepared."
Did I fail them? I know when I pulled them out, it was clearly what they
needed. They agree about this. But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?
I have emails out to a few tutors and am awaiting replies.
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 4:07:11 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] FW: Music
wanting a harp when I was little (I got a guitar instead, which I
enjoyed playing until college) and we chatted over the years about me
maybe still wanting one. He looked into buying a harp about 20 years
ago, but only found concert harps for a few thousand bucks (not in our
budget). I took a lesson or two on a small pedal harp about 10 years
ago, but it wasn't working out for me time-wise then.
My 50th birthday rolled around and I was in for a surprise. We went on
a 2 hour drive, ending up down a dirt road with me thinking we were
going to look at a vacation cabin or something. It turned out that
he'd bought me a Celtic lap harp and we were visiting the harp maker
to pick it up! The harp came with an introductory lesson and he had
booked that, too. When he told me that this was my surprise, I blurted
out "No, I don't want to do that!"
I had moved past the harp-wanting and was content not to have one. He
hadn't talked about a harp with me in years. I felt a bit blindsided,
but when I thought about it, I knew he had been looking and looking
and finding the right time and place and everything to do this. I felt
bad about how I reacted (though it was honest, it wasn't especially
kind). So, I went in and held my harp, enjoyed the lesson and headed
home with a beautiful new instrument and a beginner's CD. I looked
into lessons with the harp-builder nearby, but I was also working
towards an Editing certificate at university. That occupied my time,
but I did go about learning how to play a song on the harp. My husband
loved the sound of my playing and I was liking it, too.
We took the harp to my parents' place that year (2006) for Christmas
and I made an attempt at playing the new song. My dad said "well,
you're not very good at it, are you?" I not only stopped playing
right there and then, I haven't picked it up since. I decided, though,
that this year *I* wanted to make the decision about learning to play
and I'm heading to a harp camp put on by my harp-builder (and fabulous
musician) at the end of this month!
So, a number things conspired to make me less than enthusiastic for 4
years or so. My husband made a huge assumption about my continuing
need for a harp; he assumed I would like a surprise (not this one, so
much <g>); he expected that my dream had been fulfilled and that I
would really thank him for it; he hoped that I would play and play
often; my dad made that rude comment (which I guess I should have
expected, given his history with those sorts of things); and husband
now and again showed his disappointment that my harp just sat in a
corner, taking up space. I was also embarrassed to be put in a
position of taking a lesson I didn't prepare for mentally and trying
to be happy about the whole thing. I felt a bit resentful, in spite of
knowing the trouble he went to and the sweet thought he put into the
whole experience. I felt guilty about that. All in all, not a recipe
for joyful learning.
My dad died a couple of years ago now and my husband has seen my
delight in my new passion for hula and things Hawai'ian. I have space
to really *want* to learn to play the harp now, because the pressure
is off. I can't wait for my weekend away on my own, surrounded by
other beginning harpists and hammered dulcimer players. And I'm
planning to learn how to play Hawai'ian music on the harp to add to my
'ukulele lessons. I've been singing with an unschooling parents' rock
band, so music is returning to my life in a big way. Because *I* want
it.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and would like to be around kids his own age. My daughter 11 has also decided
she wants to return to school. After emotionally exhausting myself, I am not
sure what to do next. As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in.
However I also understand how they feel. Here in "uppercrusted" CT, the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend).
First I cried because now that they want to go back, they are not "prepared."
Did I fail them? I know when I pulled them out, it was clearly what they
needed. They agree about this. But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?
I have emails out to a few tutors and am awaiting replies.
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 4:07:11 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] FW: Music
> Your partner, who loves you dearly, has decided to sign you up forMy husband did this with the best of intentions. I had talked about
> something he believes will be a great learning experience, enrich
> your life, and hopes you will enjoy -- all without your consent
wanting a harp when I was little (I got a guitar instead, which I
enjoyed playing until college) and we chatted over the years about me
maybe still wanting one. He looked into buying a harp about 20 years
ago, but only found concert harps for a few thousand bucks (not in our
budget). I took a lesson or two on a small pedal harp about 10 years
ago, but it wasn't working out for me time-wise then.
My 50th birthday rolled around and I was in for a surprise. We went on
a 2 hour drive, ending up down a dirt road with me thinking we were
going to look at a vacation cabin or something. It turned out that
he'd bought me a Celtic lap harp and we were visiting the harp maker
to pick it up! The harp came with an introductory lesson and he had
booked that, too. When he told me that this was my surprise, I blurted
out "No, I don't want to do that!"
I had moved past the harp-wanting and was content not to have one. He
hadn't talked about a harp with me in years. I felt a bit blindsided,
but when I thought about it, I knew he had been looking and looking
and finding the right time and place and everything to do this. I felt
bad about how I reacted (though it was honest, it wasn't especially
kind). So, I went in and held my harp, enjoyed the lesson and headed
home with a beautiful new instrument and a beginner's CD. I looked
into lessons with the harp-builder nearby, but I was also working
towards an Editing certificate at university. That occupied my time,
but I did go about learning how to play a song on the harp. My husband
loved the sound of my playing and I was liking it, too.
We took the harp to my parents' place that year (2006) for Christmas
and I made an attempt at playing the new song. My dad said "well,
you're not very good at it, are you?" I not only stopped playing
right there and then, I haven't picked it up since. I decided, though,
that this year *I* wanted to make the decision about learning to play
and I'm heading to a harp camp put on by my harp-builder (and fabulous
musician) at the end of this month!
So, a number things conspired to make me less than enthusiastic for 4
years or so. My husband made a huge assumption about my continuing
need for a harp; he assumed I would like a surprise (not this one, so
much <g>); he expected that my dream had been fulfilled and that I
would really thank him for it; he hoped that I would play and play
often; my dad made that rude comment (which I guess I should have
expected, given his history with those sorts of things); and husband
now and again showed his disappointment that my harp just sat in a
corner, taking up space. I was also embarrassed to be put in a
position of taking a lesson I didn't prepare for mentally and trying
to be happy about the whole thing. I felt a bit resentful, in spite of
knowing the trouble he went to and the sweet thought he put into the
whole experience. I felt guilty about that. All in all, not a recipe
for joyful learning.
My dad died a couple of years ago now and my husband has seen my
delight in my new passion for hula and things Hawai'ian. I have space
to really *want* to learn to play the harp now, because the pressure
is off. I can't wait for my weekend away on my own, surrounded by
other beginning harpists and hammered dulcimer players. And I'm
planning to learn how to play Hawai'ian music on the harp to add to my
'ukulele lessons. I've been singing with an unschooling parents' rock
band, so music is returning to my life in a big way. Because *I* want
it.
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
PS-I have read Sandra's essay Public School on Your Own Terms. What I am most
fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my children to school as "we
choose". I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests). I was an angry "rabble
rouser" mother when I removed my kids from school. How should I approach public
school this time?
________________________________
From: Cally <cally_104@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 9:00:43 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
My son 14 has announced that he wants to go back to school. He feels isolated
and would like to be around kids his own age. My daughter 11 has also decided
she wants to return to school. After emotionally exhausting myself, I am not
sure what to do next. As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in.
However I also understand how they feel. Here in "uppercrusted" CT, the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend).
First I cried because now that they want to go back, they are not "prepared."
Did I fail them? I know when I pulled them out, it was clearly what they
needed. They agree about this. But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?
I have emails out to a few tutors and am awaiting replies.
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my children to school as "we
choose". I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests). I was an angry "rabble
rouser" mother when I removed my kids from school. How should I approach public
school this time?
________________________________
From: Cally <cally_104@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 9:00:43 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
My son 14 has announced that he wants to go back to school. He feels isolated
and would like to be around kids his own age. My daughter 11 has also decided
she wants to return to school. After emotionally exhausting myself, I am not
sure what to do next. As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in.
However I also understand how they feel. Here in "uppercrusted" CT, the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend).
First I cried because now that they want to go back, they are not "prepared."
Did I fail them? I know when I pulled them out, it was clearly what they
needed. They agree about this. But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?
I have emails out to a few tutors and am awaiting replies.
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***How should I approach public
school this time? ***
You should let your kids own the experience, for good or bad. Don't nag about
homework, let them do it or not.
How long have they been out of school?
I'd say the 11 yr old won't have any problems jumping in. If the 14 yr old is
starting out in high school, they'll likely want to do placement tests and then
put him in classes according to the level he tests at. It varies from school to
school, but for some kids, the bar is set really really low. The kids that I've
known, in those classes are there because they simply don't care enough about
school and school work to do ANYthing, homework, class work, you name it. Some
of those kids fail even those classes, so I doubt very much that your son will
be "behind". Even kids who fail over half their classes, even really low level
classes, get bumped to the next grade level. I've seen it happen.
If your kids want to be there, then they won't fail in that manner. It really
does make a difference. Public schooling is no guarantee for passing. Many
kids in school have been "prepared" plenty, and still don't pass. I wouldn't
use tutors, let them jump in feet first and fully experience it. They'll either
want to stay and deal with the good and the bad of school, or they'll find that
being home is better and come home. Their choice will become one of conviction
based on experience.
You can support your kids as people even when you don't like the choices they
make. It's part of living and letting go and letting them grow into the people
they are and will become.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
school this time? ***
You should let your kids own the experience, for good or bad. Don't nag about
homework, let them do it or not.
How long have they been out of school?
I'd say the 11 yr old won't have any problems jumping in. If the 14 yr old is
starting out in high school, they'll likely want to do placement tests and then
put him in classes according to the level he tests at. It varies from school to
school, but for some kids, the bar is set really really low. The kids that I've
known, in those classes are there because they simply don't care enough about
school and school work to do ANYthing, homework, class work, you name it. Some
of those kids fail even those classes, so I doubt very much that your son will
be "behind". Even kids who fail over half their classes, even really low level
classes, get bumped to the next grade level. I've seen it happen.
If your kids want to be there, then they won't fail in that manner. It really
does make a difference. Public schooling is no guarantee for passing. Many
kids in school have been "prepared" plenty, and still don't pass. I wouldn't
use tutors, let them jump in feet first and fully experience it. They'll either
want to stay and deal with the good and the bad of school, or they'll find that
being home is better and come home. Their choice will become one of conviction
based on experience.
You can support your kids as people even when you don't like the choices they
make. It's part of living and letting go and letting them grow into the people
they are and will become.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
________________________________
From: Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 10:36:25 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
= If the 14 yr old is
starting out in high school, they'll likely want to do placement tests and then
put him in classes according to the level he tests at. It varies from school to
school, but for some kids, the bar is set really really low. The kids that I've
known, in those classes are there because they simply don't care enough about
school and school work to do ANY thing, homework, class work, you name it. Some
of those kids fail even those classes, so I doubt very much that your son will
be "behind". Even kids who fail over half their classes, even really low level
classes, get bumped to the next grade level. I've seen it happen.=
=How long have they been out of school?==
My son left when he was in 5th grade, my daughter in 2nd. So they have been
home for 4 years.
When I went to school, this was the case. However we live in an area where the
schools push the kids so the schools rate well. The parents also push their
kids to excel beyond the school's expectations. We live in an upper crust
"stepford" community where success is the only goal. Although I don't yet know,
I doubt this will be the scenario. Then again I am still feeling overwhelmed
with the thought of this next transition. Sigh.....just when I thought we had
arrived at a peaceful place.....after 3 years fighting for the right to home
school!
Carole in CT
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 10:36:25 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
= If the 14 yr old is
starting out in high school, they'll likely want to do placement tests and then
put him in classes according to the level he tests at. It varies from school to
school, but for some kids, the bar is set really really low. The kids that I've
known, in those classes are there because they simply don't care enough about
school and school work to do ANY thing, homework, class work, you name it. Some
of those kids fail even those classes, so I doubt very much that your son will
be "behind". Even kids who fail over half their classes, even really low level
classes, get bumped to the next grade level. I've seen it happen.=
=How long have they been out of school?==
My son left when he was in 5th grade, my daughter in 2nd. So they have been
home for 4 years.
When I went to school, this was the case. However we live in an area where the
schools push the kids so the schools rate well. The parents also push their
kids to excel beyond the school's expectations. We live in an upper crust
"stepford" community where success is the only goal. Although I don't yet know,
I doubt this will be the scenario. Then again I am still feeling overwhelmed
with the thought of this next transition. Sigh.....just when I thought we had
arrived at a peaceful place.....after 3 years fighting for the right to home
school!
Carole in CT
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in. -=-
I ringed a little at "as an unschooling Mother."
I don't know if there can be an unschooling mother without unschooling
children. I'm not tryint to be yucky, just to point out that it
should be about the kids, not about what the mom believes.
Belief isn't really enough. Somewhere else in the past day or two I
saw just in passing a reference to someone thinking her husband would
be persuaded that unschooling was a good idea, if only her own belief
were stronger.
Neither of those is about the action.
But to the main question, it's likely that the mother's vision of what
would be needed for school is exaggerated. If he can read, he'll be
okay. School happens one day at a time, so you can help him if he
needs help. He will get better at writing by writing.
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
The link you mentioned
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.
-=- But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?-=-
I don't think they will be "behind grade level." I don't think
contacting tutors was the way to go. I think letting them try it and
helping with what they want (which MIGHT be a tutor, after all, but
might be nothing) is the way to go.
They might not like school after they try it. All that tutoring could
do the same kind of anti-deschooling that going to school could do. I
would first see whether school lasts.
A story was told at HSC this weekend about a young teen who chose to
go to school and lasted five days.
Another traditional piece of advice has been go on a cool trip out of
town. If you can stall off TV with Disneyworld or Europe, or even a
big cool camping trip after season, when campgrounds have more room,
sometimes that can buy you a while.
On the other hand, starting school at the beginning is less baffling
than doing it in the middle of the year.
-= I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my
children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they
have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated
testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests)-=-
School is not about what you believe in.
Unschooling isn't just about what you believe in either. Unschooling
is about living a whole different kind of life.
The article linked above is specifically about not pressuring them to
do homework.
It is NOT about "not have them present for state mandated testing."
Why not? LET THEM CHOOSE.
Let your children make those choices.
It might be legal to refrain from forcing homework, or to accept lame
"I don't feel good" excuses for missing school (except when a district
might require doctors' notes), but it's might not be legal or moral to
forbid a child to go to school if he wants to, if he's enrolled.
-=- I was an angry "rabble rouser" mother when I removed my kids from
school. How should I approach public
school this time? -=-
You could see it as something your children want to do. Not something
you're providing for them; it's not a thing of your design. It's a
situation they would like to involve themselves in. You don't need
"to approach" public school. The kids could enroll themselves. Or
you could go with them and calmly state that it's their choice, and
you would prefer they stay home. And them smile. And soon, leave.
Let them do as much of it on their own as they can, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
agendas go against everything I believe in. -=-
I ringed a little at "as an unschooling Mother."
I don't know if there can be an unschooling mother without unschooling
children. I'm not tryint to be yucky, just to point out that it
should be about the kids, not about what the mom believes.
Belief isn't really enough. Somewhere else in the past day or two I
saw just in passing a reference to someone thinking her husband would
be persuaded that unschooling was a good idea, if only her own belief
were stronger.
Neither of those is about the action.
But to the main question, it's likely that the mother's vision of what
would be needed for school is exaggerated. If he can read, he'll be
okay. School happens one day at a time, so you can help him if he
needs help. He will get better at writing by writing.
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
The link you mentioned
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.
-=- But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?-=-
I don't think they will be "behind grade level." I don't think
contacting tutors was the way to go. I think letting them try it and
helping with what they want (which MIGHT be a tutor, after all, but
might be nothing) is the way to go.
They might not like school after they try it. All that tutoring could
do the same kind of anti-deschooling that going to school could do. I
would first see whether school lasts.
A story was told at HSC this weekend about a young teen who chose to
go to school and lasted five days.
Another traditional piece of advice has been go on a cool trip out of
town. If you can stall off TV with Disneyworld or Europe, or even a
big cool camping trip after season, when campgrounds have more room,
sometimes that can buy you a while.
On the other hand, starting school at the beginning is less baffling
than doing it in the middle of the year.
-= I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my
children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they
have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated
testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests)-=-
School is not about what you believe in.
Unschooling isn't just about what you believe in either. Unschooling
is about living a whole different kind of life.
The article linked above is specifically about not pressuring them to
do homework.
It is NOT about "not have them present for state mandated testing."
Why not? LET THEM CHOOSE.
Let your children make those choices.
It might be legal to refrain from forcing homework, or to accept lame
"I don't feel good" excuses for missing school (except when a district
might require doctors' notes), but it's might not be legal or moral to
forbid a child to go to school if he wants to, if he's enrolled.
-=- I was an angry "rabble rouser" mother when I removed my kids from
school. How should I approach public
school this time? -=-
You could see it as something your children want to do. Not something
you're providing for them; it's not a thing of your design. It's a
situation they would like to involve themselves in. You don't need
"to approach" public school. The kids could enroll themselves. Or
you could go with them and calmly state that it's their choice, and
you would prefer they stay home. And them smile. And soon, leave.
Let them do as much of it on their own as they can, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-However I also understand how they feel. Here in "uppercrusted" CT,
the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social
circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other
kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend). -=-
Limiting friendships to only other homeschooled kids isn't necessary,
and isn't usually a great idea. If he's interested in music, maybe
there are others, who go to school, he could find to hang out with,
maybe by going to smaller local concerts.
If activities are limited with the homeschooling group, but if the
kids have other interests (gaming, sports, arts, skateboarding...)
they can meet other people. Expecting local homeschoolers, even if
there are a TON of them, to provide everything for any unschooler or
unschooling family can be a problem, because it's living in
homeschooling world instead of in the real world.
But if the mom doesn't believe in teaching, hiring a tutor's probably
a bad idea.
If learning can happen naturally, then those kids can learn what they
need to learn to catch up with school mates.
As an example, my son Marty took a GED because he was offered a job he
couldn't accept because they have a strict diploma or GED rule.
Without preparing (without taking classes; he did thumb through the
booklet, and we read about the essay section one day for about twenty
minutes), he passed the first time, at about the 76th percentile
(they're not specific about a single number; could be higher).
If I had "hired tutors" to make sure he passed, it would've made him
feel that if he passed it was because of the tutoring.
Many of those who take a GED do take preparation courses. Some people
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. And most of those
those who take GEDs did go to school in the first place. Marty
didn't do the 76th percentile among unschoolers, but among whatever
the randomish population of people who did go to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the
homeschool group is very small, the activites limited thus his social
circle is
quite small. As he is growing and changing he wants to be around other
kids his
own age. (He went to his first Metal concert this weekend). -=-
Limiting friendships to only other homeschooled kids isn't necessary,
and isn't usually a great idea. If he's interested in music, maybe
there are others, who go to school, he could find to hang out with,
maybe by going to smaller local concerts.
If activities are limited with the homeschooling group, but if the
kids have other interests (gaming, sports, arts, skateboarding...)
they can meet other people. Expecting local homeschoolers, even if
there are a TON of them, to provide everything for any unschooler or
unschooling family can be a problem, because it's living in
homeschooling world instead of in the real world.
But if the mom doesn't believe in teaching, hiring a tutor's probably
a bad idea.
If learning can happen naturally, then those kids can learn what they
need to learn to catch up with school mates.
As an example, my son Marty took a GED because he was offered a job he
couldn't accept because they have a strict diploma or GED rule.
Without preparing (without taking classes; he did thumb through the
booklet, and we read about the essay section one day for about twenty
minutes), he passed the first time, at about the 76th percentile
(they're not specific about a single number; could be higher).
If I had "hired tutors" to make sure he passed, it would've made him
feel that if he passed it was because of the tutoring.
Many of those who take a GED do take preparation courses. Some people
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. And most of those
those who take GEDs did go to school in the first place. Marty
didn't do the 76th percentile among unschoolers, but among whatever
the randomish population of people who did go to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I ringed a little at "as an unschooling Mother."-=-
I'm so sorry.
That was supposed to be "cringed" a little.
-=-My son left when he was in 5th grade, my daughter in 2nd. So they
have been
home for 4 years.-=-
-=- Sigh.....just when I thought we had
arrived at a peaceful place.....after 3 years fighting for the right
to home
school!-=-
Were those three years part of the four years since they came home?
Is there an ex spouse involved?
If they haven't had a long peaceful, quiet time to really deschool,
could that be the problem?
Maybe the kids don't know that they could learn without school.
Maybe they want to be around other kids if their homelife involves
fighting (even if it's only "fighting for the right to home school").
Strife and stress don't allow unschooling to take firm root.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm so sorry.
That was supposed to be "cringed" a little.
-=-My son left when he was in 5th grade, my daughter in 2nd. So they
have been
home for 4 years.-=-
-=- Sigh.....just when I thought we had
arrived at a peaceful place.....after 3 years fighting for the right
to home
school!-=-
Were those three years part of the four years since they came home?
Is there an ex spouse involved?
If they haven't had a long peaceful, quiet time to really deschool,
could that be the problem?
Maybe the kids don't know that they could learn without school.
Maybe they want to be around other kids if their homelife involves
fighting (even if it's only "fighting for the right to home school").
Strife and stress don't allow unschooling to take firm root.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***However we live in an area where the
schools push the kids so the schools rate well.***
That's about the school's view of itself. I believe you can take the guess work
out of that by looking at the department of education's website and see for
yourself how the school rates. Even if you happen to live in a "stepford"
community, it doesn't mean that all kids come from your neighborhood and feed
into that school.
On the upside, if you do live in a more affluent neighborhood, the school
probably has all the bells and whistles that some schools have.
I don't know the laws where you live, but have you looked to see if homeschooled
kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
schools push the kids so the schools rate well.***
That's about the school's view of itself. I believe you can take the guess work
out of that by looking at the department of education's website and see for
yourself how the school rates. Even if you happen to live in a "stepford"
community, it doesn't mean that all kids come from your neighborhood and feed
into that school.
On the upside, if you do live in a more affluent neighborhood, the school
probably has all the bells and whistles that some schools have.
I don't know the laws where you live, but have you looked to see if homeschooled
kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Many of those who take a GED do take preparation courses. Some people
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. ***
I talked to a girl extensively at the bookstore once, random stranger. She had
just taken her GED to get into college early. From her experience, doing all
the prep work for a GED and the practice test, was harder than the actual test.
She felt anxiety over it for over a month, about how difficult it must be to do
all this preparation for it. She even said the practice test was actually
harder than the real test. She said she did better on the practice test than
the actual test because of finality of it. That made sense to me.
Chamille has been talking about doing the GED. I think the best thing she could
do for preparation would be to go online and do a few practice tests to get a
feel for it. I'm in no hurry and neither is she. If she suddenly decided to go
to school, I'd let her go without any prep work and let her be placed where she
gets placed. She'd probably be in some advanced classes and some remedial ones,
just like most students.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. ***
I talked to a girl extensively at the bookstore once, random stranger. She had
just taken her GED to get into college early. From her experience, doing all
the prep work for a GED and the practice test, was harder than the actual test.
She felt anxiety over it for over a month, about how difficult it must be to do
all this preparation for it. She even said the practice test was actually
harder than the real test. She said she did better on the practice test than
the actual test because of finality of it. That made sense to me.
Chamille has been talking about doing the GED. I think the best thing she could
do for preparation would be to go online and do a few practice tests to get a
feel for it. I'm in no hurry and neither is she. If she suddenly decided to go
to school, I'd let her go without any prep work and let her be placed where she
gets placed. She'd probably be in some advanced classes and some remedial ones,
just like most students.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
ONE VERY IMPORTANT FACT I LEFT OUT:
My son is Bi-Polar. He cannot handle stress. In fifth grade, my bright child
was humiliated by a teacher known for singling out a child and humiliating him,
and punishing them for the year. My son was that child.
He was not diagnosed then (and I use that term VERY loosely). She stood over him
with a stop watch until he finished his multiplication tables in two minutes.
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 11:13:23 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
-=- As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in. -=-
I ringed a little at "as an unschooling Mother."
I don't know if there can be an unschooling mother without unschooling
children. I'm not tryint to be yucky, just to point out that it
should be about the kids, not about what the mom believes.
Belief isn't really enough. Somewhere else in the past day or two I
saw just in passing a reference to someone thinking her husband would
be persuaded that unschooling was a good idea, if only her own belief
were stronger.
Neither of those is about the action.
But to the main question, it's likely that the mother's vision of what
would be needed for school is exaggerated. If he can read, he'll be
okay. School happens one day at a time, so you can help him if he
needs help. He will get better at writing by writing.
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
The link you mentioned
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.
-=- But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?-=-
I don't think they will be "behind grade level." I don't think
contacting tutors was the way to go. I think letting them try it and
helping with what they want (which MIGHT be a tutor, after all, but
might be nothing) is the way to go.
They might not like school after they try it. All that tutoring could
do the same kind of anti-deschooling that going to school could do. I
would first see whether school lasts.
A story was told at HSC this weekend about a young teen who chose to
go to school and lasted five days.
Another traditional piece of advice has been go on a cool trip out of
town. If you can stall off TV with Disneyworld or Europe, or even a
big cool camping trip after season, when campgrounds have more room,
sometimes that can buy you a while.
On the other hand, starting school at the beginning is less baffling
than doing it in the middle of the year.
-= I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my
children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they
have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated
testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests)-=-
School is not about what you believe in.
Unschooling isn't just about what you believe in either. Unschooling
is about living a whole different kind of life.
The article linked above is specifically about not pressuring them to
do homework.
It is NOT about "not have them present for state mandated testing."
Why not? LET THEM CHOOSE.
Let your children make those choices.
It might be legal to refrain from forcing homework, or to accept lame
"I don't feel good" excuses for missing school (except when a district
might require doctors' notes), but it's might not be legal or moral to
forbid a child to go to school if he wants to, if he's enrolled.
-=- I was an angry "rabble rouser" mother when I removed my kids from
school. How should I approach public
school this time? -=-
You could see it as something your children want to do. Not something
you're providing for them; it's not a thing of your design. It's a
situation they would like to involve themselves in. You don't need
"to approach" public school. The kids could enroll themselves. Or
you could go with them and calmly state that it's their choice, and
you would prefer they stay home. And them smile. And soon, leave.
Let them do as much of it on their own as they can, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son is Bi-Polar. He cannot handle stress. In fifth grade, my bright child
was humiliated by a teacher known for singling out a child and humiliating him,
and punishing them for the year. My son was that child.
He was not diagnosed then (and I use that term VERY loosely). She stood over him
with a stop watch until he finished his multiplication tables in two minutes.
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 11:13:23 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to School? Comments Welcome!
-=- As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
agendas go against everything I believe in. -=-
I ringed a little at "as an unschooling Mother."
I don't know if there can be an unschooling mother without unschooling
children. I'm not tryint to be yucky, just to point out that it
should be about the kids, not about what the mom believes.
Belief isn't really enough. Somewhere else in the past day or two I
saw just in passing a reference to someone thinking her husband would
be persuaded that unschooling was a good idea, if only her own belief
were stronger.
Neither of those is about the action.
But to the main question, it's likely that the mother's vision of what
would be needed for school is exaggerated. If he can read, he'll be
okay. School happens one day at a time, so you can help him if he
needs help. He will get better at writing by writing.
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
The link you mentioned
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.
-=- But if I ask the school to provide tutoring to
help them reach grade level, will they accuse me and or charge me with
educational neglect?-=-
I don't think they will be "behind grade level." I don't think
contacting tutors was the way to go. I think letting them try it and
helping with what they want (which MIGHT be a tutor, after all, but
might be nothing) is the way to go.
They might not like school after they try it. All that tutoring could
do the same kind of anti-deschooling that going to school could do. I
would first see whether school lasts.
A story was told at HSC this weekend about a young teen who chose to
go to school and lasted five days.
Another traditional piece of advice has been go on a cool trip out of
town. If you can stall off TV with Disneyworld or Europe, or even a
big cool camping trip after season, when campgrounds have more room,
sometimes that can buy you a while.
On the other hand, starting school at the beginning is less baffling
than doing it in the middle of the year.
-= I do not believe in testing, the grading system or the pressure and
stress going to school entails. Those are the reasons I took my
children out.
I will not pressure them to do 4 hours of homework at night after they
have been
in school all day, I will not have them present for state mandated
testing (the
school preps them for 2 weeks prior to the tests)-=-
School is not about what you believe in.
Unschooling isn't just about what you believe in either. Unschooling
is about living a whole different kind of life.
The article linked above is specifically about not pressuring them to
do homework.
It is NOT about "not have them present for state mandated testing."
Why not? LET THEM CHOOSE.
Let your children make those choices.
It might be legal to refrain from forcing homework, or to accept lame
"I don't feel good" excuses for missing school (except when a district
might require doctors' notes), but it's might not be legal or moral to
forbid a child to go to school if he wants to, if he's enrolled.
-=- I was an angry "rabble rouser" mother when I removed my kids from
school. How should I approach public
school this time? -=-
You could see it as something your children want to do. Not something
you're providing for them; it's not a thing of your design. It's a
situation they would like to involve themselves in. You don't need
"to approach" public school. The kids could enroll themselves. Or
you could go with them and calmly state that it's their choice, and
you would prefer they stay home. And them smile. And soon, leave.
Let them do as much of it on their own as they can, maybe.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
==Were those three years part of the four years since they came home?
Is there an ex spouse involved?=
Yes there is. And yes these years were in court and fighting. We are finally
in a place to relax, be at peace and now are finally receiving some child
support. We are now in a position to take some trips. We went to Washington DC
and we were going to Niagara Falls Oct 4th. We have discussed a host of other
trips as well.
=If they haven't had a long peaceful, quiet time to really deschool,
could that be the problem?
Maybe the kids don't know that they could learn without school.
Maybe they want to be around other kids if their homelife involves
fighting (even if it's only "fighting for the right to home school").=
Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly.
=Strife and stress don't allow unschooling to take firm root.=
This too is true. I think this is more about socializing and being around a
bunch of kids who are more like him.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Is there an ex spouse involved?=
Yes there is. And yes these years were in court and fighting. We are finally
in a place to relax, be at peace and now are finally receiving some child
support. We are now in a position to take some trips. We went to Washington DC
and we were going to Niagara Falls Oct 4th. We have discussed a host of other
trips as well.
=If they haven't had a long peaceful, quiet time to really deschool,
could that be the problem?
Maybe the kids don't know that they could learn without school.
Maybe they want to be around other kids if their homelife involves
fighting (even if it's only "fighting for the right to home school").=
Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly.
=Strife and stress don't allow unschooling to take firm root.=
This too is true. I think this is more about socializing and being around a
bunch of kids who are more like him.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
=I don't know the laws where you live, but have you looked to see if
homeschooled
kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.=
I have done this and the school refused because my children were not enrolled.
Carole
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschooled
kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.=
I have done this and the school refused because my children were not enrolled.
Carole
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
***Many of those who take a GED do take preparation courses. Some people
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. ***
I have suggested sitting in on some courses at the local community college to
see if there is something he might like. He has refused. I don't think it is
about going back to school as it is about getting out of the house and meeting
others. I think his sister (the 16 year old living with the Grandparents who do
not support unschooling) (the one who is also preparing for her GED) has much to
do with this sudden decision to go back to school. Regardless of where his
feelings have originated, his decisions must be respected.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
make a lot of money off providing those, and books. ***
I have suggested sitting in on some courses at the local community college to
see if there is something he might like. He has refused. I don't think it is
about going back to school as it is about getting out of the house and meeting
others. I think his sister (the 16 year old living with the Grandparents who do
not support unschooling) (the one who is also preparing for her GED) has much to
do with this sudden decision to go back to school. Regardless of where his
feelings have originated, his decisions must be respected.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
==The link you mentioned
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.==
When I first pulled my kids out of school, I was reported to DCF for educational
neglect. That was part of the long and very stressful legal battle to home
school. Unschooling is illegal here and never mentioned.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
doesn't talk about changing what the school will do, but choosing how
to react to it while you're at home.
I brought the link because I don't want it to be misrepresented, and
also because it does seem you've misunderstood it.==
When I first pulled my kids out of school, I was reported to DCF for educational
neglect. That was part of the long and very stressful legal battle to home
school. Unschooling is illegal here and never mentioned.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
graberamy
I thought I'd pipe in because this happened to my kids a few years ago. My then 11yo wanted to go to school and she did. She lasted a quarter and then came home.
<<<As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
So, she is 13 now and trying again. This year I have a whole new attitude towards school and am being 100% supportive. In fact she told me if she wants to quit that I have to make her finish out the year. Not sure if I'd be able to do that. I said "what if you tell me you want to go part time", she said "let me!" :)
When she went at age 11 and having been unschooled almost her entire life she did fine. She was not the math whiz (speed wise) and that frustrated my type A child, over time (probably a short time) she would have done even better. Poor handwriting really frustrated her too and this past year she has written A LOT! She copies pages of books in journals! And she is much more confident about her handwriting. But that's just her, some kids may not care.
When Lydia went to school my son then 9 wanted to go too. I signed him up for a Montessori school (which I was much more supportive of because it was more in line with my schooling philosophies) and he lasted the entire year. Of course he just went for PE and lunch (bwg) but even that eventually bored him. He is still home and enjoying himself and not interested in going this year even tho his sister is.
When I signed Lydia up they wanted to do a placement test (both times) the first time I argued the point of test and really just probably seemed over the top and made no point to people who are working for the school. This time I just said, let's just put her in class and see how she does, if there's a problem we'll go from there. The school was like, "OK." That's it, no big deal.
However, in 8th grade (which is the grade she's in) they do their ITBS testing and she will have to take it (have to is probably strong, I could fight it) I however will not have to make a big deal about it...and I won't.
In Iowa, they offer the possibility to dual enroll, where one can go part time and pick and chose their classes? Maybe talk to him about that? That might meet his needs? At the high school age, they seem to have a little more choices in their schedule.
Do you have choices in the schools that he goes too? Are there some charter schools, montessori or free schools that might be more in line with your philosophies?
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
Don't make my mistake, let your kids come up with their own ideas about school. The reality is some kids don't mind the hoop jumping so they can be with friends all day. School does work for a lot of kids, I'm not arguing that it's an ideal place to be but just that not everyone has the same take on it.
I understand wanting your kids home, but take Jenny's advice:
"You can support your kids as people even when you don't like the choices they
make. It's part of living and letting go and letting them grow into the people
they are and will become."
amy g
iowa
________________________________
<<<As an unschooling Mother, public schools and their
> agendas go against everything I believe in. >>>>This is how I felt when she went to school, and she knew it. I was NOT a supportive mom in her choice, I did not make her choice as easy as I could of for her and I regret that. I told her how pointless the assignments were, and gave her my opinion on everything. She quit school and came home but she wasn't 100% happy, in DSM there are very few people home during the day that she has much if anything in common with. Every night she was happy and was busy with friends & activities, but during the day I just wasn't meeting her needs. I feel like I tried everything, she just really wanted to be with her peers all the time. I look back and wish I would have done better, I wish I would have been more respectful of her choices, even the one I didn't agree with.
So, she is 13 now and trying again. This year I have a whole new attitude towards school and am being 100% supportive. In fact she told me if she wants to quit that I have to make her finish out the year. Not sure if I'd be able to do that. I said "what if you tell me you want to go part time", she said "let me!" :)
When she went at age 11 and having been unschooled almost her entire life she did fine. She was not the math whiz (speed wise) and that frustrated my type A child, over time (probably a short time) she would have done even better. Poor handwriting really frustrated her too and this past year she has written A LOT! She copies pages of books in journals! And she is much more confident about her handwriting. But that's just her, some kids may not care.
When Lydia went to school my son then 9 wanted to go too. I signed him up for a Montessori school (which I was much more supportive of because it was more in line with my schooling philosophies) and he lasted the entire year. Of course he just went for PE and lunch (bwg) but even that eventually bored him. He is still home and enjoying himself and not interested in going this year even tho his sister is.
When I signed Lydia up they wanted to do a placement test (both times) the first time I argued the point of test and really just probably seemed over the top and made no point to people who are working for the school. This time I just said, let's just put her in class and see how she does, if there's a problem we'll go from there. The school was like, "OK." That's it, no big deal.
However, in 8th grade (which is the grade she's in) they do their ITBS testing and she will have to take it (have to is probably strong, I could fight it) I however will not have to make a big deal about it...and I won't.
In Iowa, they offer the possibility to dual enroll, where one can go part time and pick and chose their classes? Maybe talk to him about that? That might meet his needs? At the high school age, they seem to have a little more choices in their schedule.
Do you have choices in the schools that he goes too? Are there some charter schools, montessori or free schools that might be more in line with your philosophies?
-=-What I am most fearful of is the school's refusal to allow my
children to school as "we choose". -=-
Don't make my mistake, let your kids come up with their own ideas about school. The reality is some kids don't mind the hoop jumping so they can be with friends all day. School does work for a lot of kids, I'm not arguing that it's an ideal place to be but just that not everyone has the same take on it.
I understand wanting your kids home, but take Jenny's advice:
"You can support your kids as people even when you don't like the choices they
make. It's part of living and letting go and letting them grow into the people
they are and will become."
amy g
iowa
________________________________
Robin Bentley
>You might want to check your state regs. If the school is legally
> I have done this and the school refused because my children were not
> enrolled.
obligated to accept homeschooled kids in their classes, it cannot
refuse because they're not enrolled.
Robin B.
>
Sandra Dodd
ONE VERY IMPORTANT FACT I LEFT OUT:
My son is Bi-Polar. He cannot handle stress. In fifth grade, my bright
child
was humiliated by a teacher known for singling out a child and
humiliating him,
and punishing them for the year. My son was that child.
He was not diagnosed then (and I use that term VERY loosely). She
stood over him
with a stop watch until he finished his multiplication tables in two
minutes.
-------------------------------------
There was a joke Whoopi Goldberg used to tell that doesn't make sense
anymore. (If it wasn't hers, it was Billy Crystal's.)
When she travelled she always took a bomb, because the odds of there
being a bomb on a plane were [whatever big odds], but the odds of
there being TWO bombs were in the billions.
The odds of that happening to your son a second time are very small.
If your son would rather go to school than stay home, and if you keep
him home, then you might seem to him to be the person standing over
him and punishing him with a stop watch.
=======
This question might have been misunderstood.
=I don't know the laws where you live, but have you looked to see if
homeschooled kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That
might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.=
-=-I have done this and the school refused because my children were
not enrolled.-=-
IF the law says they can, the school cannot refuse.
Perhaps there's a half-time option. But don't ask the school. It's
not their business, nor is it to their advantage, to know the laws
about homeschooling. Ask the unschoolers in your state. Find the
laws and read them for yourself.
It might be that the school is right, but don't accept that because
the school said so. Inform yourself.
-= Regardless of where his feelings have originated, his decisions
must be respected.-=-
If you believe this, then I'm confused about your long posts so full
of emotion and resistance.
-=-When I first pulled my kids out of school, I was reported to DCF
for educational
neglect. That was part of the long and very stressful legal battle to
home
school. Unschooling is illegal here and never mentioned.-=-
"Unschooling" is a way to homeschool. Homeschooling IS mentioned.
Each family needs to understand unschooling enough to make it workable
within the state law. Any family that doesn't bother to do that
probably IS violating the law, and probably isn't unschooling
optimally. Finding local unschoolers is advised pretty regularly on
this list and others like it. Other unschoolers have experience with
the ways the laws are interpretted and enforced.
If someone says "I'm not going to meet the laws, because I'm an
unschooling Mother," that's going to present problems problems for
that family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son is Bi-Polar. He cannot handle stress. In fifth grade, my bright
child
was humiliated by a teacher known for singling out a child and
humiliating him,
and punishing them for the year. My son was that child.
He was not diagnosed then (and I use that term VERY loosely). She
stood over him
with a stop watch until he finished his multiplication tables in two
minutes.
-------------------------------------
There was a joke Whoopi Goldberg used to tell that doesn't make sense
anymore. (If it wasn't hers, it was Billy Crystal's.)
When she travelled she always took a bomb, because the odds of there
being a bomb on a plane were [whatever big odds], but the odds of
there being TWO bombs were in the billions.
The odds of that happening to your son a second time are very small.
If your son would rather go to school than stay home, and if you keep
him home, then you might seem to him to be the person standing over
him and punishing him with a stop watch.
=======
This question might have been misunderstood.
=I don't know the laws where you live, but have you looked to see if
homeschooled kids can participate in extra curricular activities? That
might satisfy their
need to meet other kids with out doing the full deal.=
-=-I have done this and the school refused because my children were
not enrolled.-=-
IF the law says they can, the school cannot refuse.
Perhaps there's a half-time option. But don't ask the school. It's
not their business, nor is it to their advantage, to know the laws
about homeschooling. Ask the unschoolers in your state. Find the
laws and read them for yourself.
It might be that the school is right, but don't accept that because
the school said so. Inform yourself.
-= Regardless of where his feelings have originated, his decisions
must be respected.-=-
If you believe this, then I'm confused about your long posts so full
of emotion and resistance.
-=-When I first pulled my kids out of school, I was reported to DCF
for educational
neglect. That was part of the long and very stressful legal battle to
home
school. Unschooling is illegal here and never mentioned.-=-
"Unschooling" is a way to homeschool. Homeschooling IS mentioned.
Each family needs to understand unschooling enough to make it workable
within the state law. Any family that doesn't bother to do that
probably IS violating the law, and probably isn't unschooling
optimally. Finding local unschoolers is advised pretty regularly on
this list and others like it. Other unschoolers have experience with
the ways the laws are interpretted and enforced.
If someone says "I'm not going to meet the laws, because I'm an
unschooling Mother," that's going to present problems problems for
that family.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> When I first pulled my kids out of school, I was reported to DCF forUnschooling is a type of homeschooling. I checked the law and
> educational
> neglect. That was part of the long and very stressful legal battle
> to home
> school. Unschooling is illegal here and never mentioned.
guidelines for Connecticut and there is nothing to suggest that
unschooling would be illegal.
Having said that, many people (including relatives) do not understand
the meaning of unschooling. Saying that you "homeschool" is a much
better bet, regardless of what it looks like in your home.
Ignore my previous suggestion to find out of schools are required to
provide classes to homeschoolers. I don't see anything in the law that
states that they must.
Robin B.
Robin Bentley
> I think this is more about socializing and being around aWhat do your son and daughter like to do? Can you find clubs or group
> bunch of kids who are more like him.
activities at which they might meet kids who share their interests?
School doesn't guarantee opportunities to socialize any more than
homeschooling/unschooling groups do. Your son and daughter might not
find anyone to connect with in either place. But if you find
opportunities for them to explore their passions with others, it could
fill their need for social connection.
Robin B.
Jenny Cyphers
***My son is Bi-Polar. He cannot handle stress. In fifth grade, my bright
child...***
Lots of kids can't handle stress. This is about school and fitting into school.
I'm sorry you carried that over into unschooling. Labels very often do more
harm than good. Bi-polar is another form of "I'm depressed sometimes and happy
other times". There are some people for whom those feelings are extreme. One
of the very important aspects of unschooling that is solely on the parents, is
to create a happy learning environment. Kids don't learn nearly as well when
they aren't happy. It doesn't mean that every person needs to be happy at every
moment of every day, it means that things that create happy momentum should be
paramount from day to day.
If going to concerts with friends is something that creates happiness, do more
of that. If staying at home without friends creates unhappiness, do less of
that. If you want to unschool well, make your lives as happy as possible, make
home a happy place, make food and grocery shopping and everything in between
something that is happy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
child...***
Lots of kids can't handle stress. This is about school and fitting into school.
I'm sorry you carried that over into unschooling. Labels very often do more
harm than good. Bi-polar is another form of "I'm depressed sometimes and happy
other times". There are some people for whom those feelings are extreme. One
of the very important aspects of unschooling that is solely on the parents, is
to create a happy learning environment. Kids don't learn nearly as well when
they aren't happy. It doesn't mean that every person needs to be happy at every
moment of every day, it means that things that create happy momentum should be
paramount from day to day.
If going to concerts with friends is something that creates happiness, do more
of that. If staying at home without friends creates unhappiness, do less of
that. If you want to unschool well, make your lives as happy as possible, make
home a happy place, make food and grocery shopping and everything in between
something that is happy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
-= Regardless of where his feelings have originated, his decisions
must be respected.-=-
=If you believe this, then I'm confused about your long posts so full
of emotion and resistance.=
I will respect and support my son in his decision to return to school. That
doesn't mean
that I am not emotional about it and worried. I am also concerned that although
he says he wants to go to HS that he knows what that entails. When I discuss
this with him I do not want to sound resistant nor do I want him to think he
cannot accomplish whatever it is he wants to do there.
Although Unschooling is a type of homeschooling, here in CT it is not looked
upon that way by schools and the local government. I have been in court and was
advised not to mention the word "unschooling". In court I had to provide books
and completed school work as proof that I was home schooling.
Carole
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
must be respected.-=-
=If you believe this, then I'm confused about your long posts so full
of emotion and resistance.=
I will respect and support my son in his decision to return to school. That
doesn't mean
that I am not emotional about it and worried. I am also concerned that although
he says he wants to go to HS that he knows what that entails. When I discuss
this with him I do not want to sound resistant nor do I want him to think he
cannot accomplish whatever it is he wants to do there.
Although Unschooling is a type of homeschooling, here in CT it is not looked
upon that way by schools and the local government. I have been in court and was
advised not to mention the word "unschooling". In court I had to provide books
and completed school work as proof that I was home schooling.
Carole
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
=Unschooling" is a way to homeschool. Homeschooling IS mentioned.
Each family needs to understand unschooling enough to make it workable
within the state law. Any family that doesn't bother to do that
probably IS violating the law, and probably isn't unschooling
optimally. Finding local unschoolers is advised pretty regularly on
this list and others like it. Other unschoolers have experience with
the ways the laws are interpreted and enforced.=
=If someone says "I'm not going to meet the laws, because I'm an
unschooling Mother," that's going to present problems problems for
that family.=
I have understood unschooling to mean child led learning. Homeschooling is
interpreted my many to mean book learning and completed documented lessons. I
was reported to DCF for educational neglect when a psychologist entered my home
to see my eldest and saw my younger kids in their PJs eating breakfast at 10AM.
She became alarmed that they were not at the table dong school work at that
hour.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Each family needs to understand unschooling enough to make it workable
within the state law. Any family that doesn't bother to do that
probably IS violating the law, and probably isn't unschooling
optimally. Finding local unschoolers is advised pretty regularly on
this list and others like it. Other unschoolers have experience with
the ways the laws are interpreted and enforced.=
=If someone says "I'm not going to meet the laws, because I'm an
unschooling Mother," that's going to present problems problems for
that family.=
I have understood unschooling to mean child led learning. Homeschooling is
interpreted my many to mean book learning and completed documented lessons. I
was reported to DCF for educational neglect when a psychologist entered my home
to see my eldest and saw my younger kids in their PJs eating breakfast at 10AM.
She became alarmed that they were not at the table dong school work at that
hour.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Although Unschooling is a type of homeschooling, here in CT it is
not looked
upon that way by schools and the local government. I have been in
court and was
advised not to mention the word "unschooling".-=-
Anyone here would have advised you not to talk about unschooling, too.
I think if you discussed such things on this list or Always Learning,
people probably did say "call it unschooling," and show evidence of
learning.
Explaining it in terms of The Open Classroom or earlier school reform
movements can help.
I'm sorry things aren't working out better for your family as to
unschooling. There still might be a return to the possibility of
unschooling. You could also plan that travel and those activities
around school days and it could be wonderful. It might even be the
tipping point that helps them decide to stay home.
As you make decisions, make them toward happiness, joy, acceptance.
Don't let school be the defining or deciding thing in your
relationship with your children.
http://sandradodd.com/choices
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
not looked
upon that way by schools and the local government. I have been in
court and was
advised not to mention the word "unschooling".-=-
Anyone here would have advised you not to talk about unschooling, too.
I think if you discussed such things on this list or Always Learning,
people probably did say "call it unschooling," and show evidence of
learning.
Explaining it in terms of The Open Classroom or earlier school reform
movements can help.
I'm sorry things aren't working out better for your family as to
unschooling. There still might be a return to the possibility of
unschooling. You could also plan that travel and those activities
around school days and it could be wonderful. It might even be the
tipping point that helps them decide to stay home.
As you make decisions, make them toward happiness, joy, acceptance.
Don't let school be the defining or deciding thing in your
relationship with your children.
http://sandradodd.com/choices
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>I might have thought that at the beginning of our unschooling lives,
> I have understood unschooling to mean child led learning.
but I don't anymore. It's my responsibility as a parent to create a
rich life of learning for my daughter. At 15, she has preferences and
passions. And I *still* offer more of what she loves plus new
experiences, books, games, ideas. Her *learning* is her own, but I
help her with access to possibilities.
If unschooling is completely "child-led" then it could end up being a
very small world if a child doesn't have a facilitating parent.
> Homeschooling isDid you know she was coming or were you completely surprised by the
> interpreted my many to mean book learning and completed documented
> lessons. I
> was reported to DCF for educational neglect when a psychologist
> entered my home
> to see my eldest and saw my younger kids in their PJs eating
> breakfast at 10AM.
> She became alarmed that they were not at the table dong school work
> at that
> hour.
visit?
Robin B.
Cally
=As you make decisions, make them toward happiness, joy, acceptance.
Don't let school be the defining or deciding thing in your
relationship with your children.=
Thank you Sandra. This is wonderful. Your responses are always helpful and
valued.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't let school be the defining or deciding thing in your
relationship with your children.=
Thank you Sandra. This is wonderful. Your responses are always helpful and
valued.
Carole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
I woke to realize (things have been a bit overwhelming and jubilant as my
children have decided to return to school) that in thanking Sandra I omitted
everyone who responded with so many helpful suggestions, warmth and kindness.
You are all making this transition (whatever it will be) so much easier. Thanks
also to Robin, Jenny, and Amy.
Carole in (Stepford) CT <g>
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children have decided to return to school) that in thanking Sandra I omitted
everyone who responded with so many helpful suggestions, warmth and kindness.
You are all making this transition (whatever it will be) so much easier. Thanks
also to Robin, Jenny, and Amy.
Carole in (Stepford) CT <g>
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>Carole! You can *actually* say that you're a Stepford Wife (well, ex-
> Carole in (Stepford) CT <g>
wife) :-)
>Robin B.