fed-up...
Tracy Oldfield
Right, this is one of those 'off-topic' things about kids which
someone saw fit to be so dismissive of. I'm asking here because i
really need some feedback on the whole emotional/empathetic/
behavioural thing (basically I'm looking for words of wisdom from
Susan <g>)
It's Tuesday morning and once again I'm mega-fed-up with the
whole tidying-up thing. I don't know, what do you all think? I need
to have one day a week when I get the whole house done. If this
doesn't happen, it gets overwhelming and it doesn't get done for
weeks and weeks. This includes the kids' room. So is tidying
their room their problem, since it's their room, or mine, since I'm
the one who wants to vac the floor? It doesn't help that I got fed-up
of them faffing about on a Tuesday morning so now they do it on
Monday night, and then my Tai Chi class moves from Thurs to Mon
so dh has the kids, and at the moment there seems a lot of
negativity from that corner. Last night he told them that the tidying
up would be done before they played out, (in ultimatum format...)
so Heather said 'I've changed my mind, I don't want to play out...' I
can't change how he is with them, but I can change how I am, and
something needs to give...
Am I expecting too much of a 4&1/2 and 3&1/2yo, ther are capable
of doing the tidying up, apart from the books, which either me or dh
do? The other problem is that when dh has the kids, he usually
has work to do (like last night,) so they do their thing while he does
his, or he wants peace and quiet to watch tv... Can you tell it's not
the kids I'm annoyed with???
I don't think this is off-topic, cause I don't see how we can all live
together (which is surely what home-ed is about) unless we can
manage these situations well.
Well, I need to go finish that hoovering...
Tracy
someone saw fit to be so dismissive of. I'm asking here because i
really need some feedback on the whole emotional/empathetic/
behavioural thing (basically I'm looking for words of wisdom from
Susan <g>)
It's Tuesday morning and once again I'm mega-fed-up with the
whole tidying-up thing. I don't know, what do you all think? I need
to have one day a week when I get the whole house done. If this
doesn't happen, it gets overwhelming and it doesn't get done for
weeks and weeks. This includes the kids' room. So is tidying
their room their problem, since it's their room, or mine, since I'm
the one who wants to vac the floor? It doesn't help that I got fed-up
of them faffing about on a Tuesday morning so now they do it on
Monday night, and then my Tai Chi class moves from Thurs to Mon
so dh has the kids, and at the moment there seems a lot of
negativity from that corner. Last night he told them that the tidying
up would be done before they played out, (in ultimatum format...)
so Heather said 'I've changed my mind, I don't want to play out...' I
can't change how he is with them, but I can change how I am, and
something needs to give...
Am I expecting too much of a 4&1/2 and 3&1/2yo, ther are capable
of doing the tidying up, apart from the books, which either me or dh
do? The other problem is that when dh has the kids, he usually
has work to do (like last night,) so they do their thing while he does
his, or he wants peace and quiet to watch tv... Can you tell it's not
the kids I'm annoyed with???
I don't think this is off-topic, cause I don't see how we can all live
together (which is surely what home-ed is about) unless we can
manage these situations well.
Well, I need to go finish that hoovering...
Tracy
M & J Welch
Hi, I'm new to this list-so this is kind of a response/self-intro (although
I recognize a few names here from the huuh list, hem page and unschooling
page, which I frequent). I'm a homeschooler/unschooler (or learning to be
one), have 3 boys 7, 3, and 3 months, and live in Escanaba MI. We've been
homeschooling for about 2 years, and my son has been gradually leading me
into unschooling, which is the best method for him to learn.
I'm addressing your question, Tracy, because I just went through this with
my husband, Mike. He's naturally a coercive parent. He does his best to
control it, but his childhood upbringing was based on authority and fear,
and he regresses. We've done a good job treating our kids like people and
not pets, so they are personality plus-especially our eldest boy. As a
result, Mike butts heads with our son, Seamus, rather often. He's proud of
Seamus' spirit, but frustrated that Seamus hasn't yet figured out how to
pick his battles. I admit, I get frustrated too, but I'm more patient than
my husband.
We've had the same problems over house upkeep. We all live in this house and
avail of the advantages of living here, so I feel we all need to work
together in order to "pay" for the "privilege" of living in our home. I
explained it to my son by using the Little Red Hen story. It seemed to click
well in his brain, but his lack of helping didn't change-and I ended up
witnessing my husband coercing my son again to clean the house.
In order to keep peace in the house, we had to create non-coercive, or at
least minimally coercive, consequences for my son. Since we consider living
in our home a privilege, we decided to make a list of Seamus' favorite
privileges. We wrote them out on tickets and tacked them to our bulletin
board. When we find ourselves repeatedly requesting that he perform a
household duty and he fails to do it he loses a daily privilege-like
watching t.v., playing with his sega, using the computer, staying up until
9:30pm, getting dessert after dinner, and the absolute worst one we pull
last, playing outside. (This last one is the biggie-he knows he'll really
have screwed up if we have to pull that one as it's his favorite thing to
do. The good thing is-we haven't had to pull it yet). I can usually tell
when it's time to take a ticket because I can feel my frustration level
increase-I have no set number of requests since every situation is slightly
different
We also use the reward system, based on an idea I saw listed on another
homeschooling board. When he performs each daily duty without being forced
to do it, he gets a star on his learning calendar. When he gets 10 stars he
gets a ticket which he can use towards special privileges. Right now he's
working towards getting Nickelodeon magazine-we've placed a ticket value on
it based on the subscription price.
I don't think this is true blue non-coercive parenting, but it's a
compromise that seems to be mutually beneficial. Our son is learning that
there are expectations that need to be followed when you share your home
with others, and my husband is learning that children don't have to be
threatened with ultimatums in order to get them to clean up after
themselves. Most importantly, we've learned how to talk with one another
about doing household chores without getting frustrated or angry. And our
home is staying clean without buildup for the first time since we've had
kids. It's amazing! I guess some people (like me!) are just slow. ;-)
Anyway-that's an idea-something to chew on.
Best, Lee (Jennifer Lee Welch)
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
I recognize a few names here from the huuh list, hem page and unschooling
page, which I frequent). I'm a homeschooler/unschooler (or learning to be
one), have 3 boys 7, 3, and 3 months, and live in Escanaba MI. We've been
homeschooling for about 2 years, and my son has been gradually leading me
into unschooling, which is the best method for him to learn.
I'm addressing your question, Tracy, because I just went through this with
my husband, Mike. He's naturally a coercive parent. He does his best to
control it, but his childhood upbringing was based on authority and fear,
and he regresses. We've done a good job treating our kids like people and
not pets, so they are personality plus-especially our eldest boy. As a
result, Mike butts heads with our son, Seamus, rather often. He's proud of
Seamus' spirit, but frustrated that Seamus hasn't yet figured out how to
pick his battles. I admit, I get frustrated too, but I'm more patient than
my husband.
We've had the same problems over house upkeep. We all live in this house and
avail of the advantages of living here, so I feel we all need to work
together in order to "pay" for the "privilege" of living in our home. I
explained it to my son by using the Little Red Hen story. It seemed to click
well in his brain, but his lack of helping didn't change-and I ended up
witnessing my husband coercing my son again to clean the house.
In order to keep peace in the house, we had to create non-coercive, or at
least minimally coercive, consequences for my son. Since we consider living
in our home a privilege, we decided to make a list of Seamus' favorite
privileges. We wrote them out on tickets and tacked them to our bulletin
board. When we find ourselves repeatedly requesting that he perform a
household duty and he fails to do it he loses a daily privilege-like
watching t.v., playing with his sega, using the computer, staying up until
9:30pm, getting dessert after dinner, and the absolute worst one we pull
last, playing outside. (This last one is the biggie-he knows he'll really
have screwed up if we have to pull that one as it's his favorite thing to
do. The good thing is-we haven't had to pull it yet). I can usually tell
when it's time to take a ticket because I can feel my frustration level
increase-I have no set number of requests since every situation is slightly
different
We also use the reward system, based on an idea I saw listed on another
homeschooling board. When he performs each daily duty without being forced
to do it, he gets a star on his learning calendar. When he gets 10 stars he
gets a ticket which he can use towards special privileges. Right now he's
working towards getting Nickelodeon magazine-we've placed a ticket value on
it based on the subscription price.
I don't think this is true blue non-coercive parenting, but it's a
compromise that seems to be mutually beneficial. Our son is learning that
there are expectations that need to be followed when you share your home
with others, and my husband is learning that children don't have to be
threatened with ultimatums in order to get them to clean up after
themselves. Most importantly, we've learned how to talk with one another
about doing household chores without getting frustrated or angry. And our
home is staying clean without buildup for the first time since we've had
kids. It's amazing! I guess some people (like me!) are just slow. ;-)
Anyway-that's an idea-something to chew on.
Best, Lee (Jennifer Lee Welch)
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
metta
on 7/18/00 9:46 AM, "aworthen" <aworthen@...> wrote:
the behavior I wanted them to learn. A mess can seem so overwhelming to a
young person and most kids are not born knowing how to organize. Also, I
found that setting the timer for 10 minutes and making a game out of picking
up as much as we could in that amount of time was successful. After 10
minutes, we quit. We could always have another 10 minute session later in
the day. Another thing that worked for me was asking them to pick up a
specific number of things... like 5 or 10 or whatever. Getting it done in
little chunks like that is doable and it really does make a difference.
Believe me, they grow up faster than you could ever think possible. Then you
will think back nostalgically to all those messes. ;-)
I read somewhere that when living with kids, a day can seem like a year, but
the years seem like days.
Enjoy your toddlers. ;-)
Oh! I just remembered a wonderful book about housekeeping written by a
homeschooling mom. It's "Shelter for the Spirit: create your own haven in a
hectic world," by Victoria Moran. I found it very inspiring and it made me
actually want to clean and cook and create a haven for myself and my family.
--
Thea
metta@...
> But,When mine were small, I found it worked best to pick up with them, modelling
> alas we are who we are and we value our kids more than our housework. How do
> we get beyond this? :-)
the behavior I wanted them to learn. A mess can seem so overwhelming to a
young person and most kids are not born knowing how to organize. Also, I
found that setting the timer for 10 minutes and making a game out of picking
up as much as we could in that amount of time was successful. After 10
minutes, we quit. We could always have another 10 minute session later in
the day. Another thing that worked for me was asking them to pick up a
specific number of things... like 5 or 10 or whatever. Getting it done in
little chunks like that is doable and it really does make a difference.
Believe me, they grow up faster than you could ever think possible. Then you
will think back nostalgically to all those messes. ;-)
I read somewhere that when living with kids, a day can seem like a year, but
the years seem like days.
Enjoy your toddlers. ;-)
Oh! I just remembered a wonderful book about housekeeping written by a
homeschooling mom. It's "Shelter for the Spirit: create your own haven in a
hectic world," by Victoria Moran. I found it very inspiring and it made me
actually want to clean and cook and create a haven for myself and my family.
--
Thea
metta@...
Tracy Oldfield
Thanks, Lee. I don't want to start on the reward-system thing,
cos afaics, it just lends to bigger and bigger rewards, and more
and more reliance on external motivation, but since the kids have
no internal motivation to sort their stuff out, I don't know where to
start. I think most of us were brought up with some coersion or
other (either reward or punishment or combination of both) and
the lucky ones who weren't are probably secure in themselves
enough to not need the suport of a list like this <g> it's something
to add to the mix, though...
Tracy
cos afaics, it just lends to bigger and bigger rewards, and more
and more reliance on external motivation, but since the kids have
no internal motivation to sort their stuff out, I don't know where to
start. I think most of us were brought up with some coersion or
other (either reward or punishment or combination of both) and
the lucky ones who weren't are probably secure in themselves
enough to not need the suport of a list like this <g> it's something
to add to the mix, though...
Tracy
On 18 Jul 2000, at 11:12, M & J Welch wrote:
We also use the reward system, based on an idea I saw
listed on another
homeschooling board. When he performs each daily duty
without being forced
to do it, he gets a star on his learning calendar.
When he gets 10 stars he
gets a ticket which he can use towards special
privileges. Right now he's
working towards getting Nickelodeon magazine-we've
placed a ticket value on
it based on the subscription price.
I don't think this is true blue non-coercive parenting,
but it's a
compromise that seems to be mutually beneficial. Our
son is learning that
there are expectations that need to be followed when
you share your home
with others, and my husband is learning that children
don't have to be
threatened with ultimatums in order to get them to
clean up after
themselves. Most importantly, we've learned how to talk
with one another
about doing household chores without getting frustrated
or angry. And our
home is staying clean without buildup for the first
time since we've had
kids. It's amazing! I guess some people (like me!) are
just slow. ;-)
Anyway-that's an idea-something to chew on.
Best, Lee (Jennifer Lee Welch)
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com