commitments
Momma
I would like some advice about something that is happening every so often in
our home. My son seems to be reneging on commitments pretty often. I will
ask him if he would like to do something or talk to him about an opportunity
has come up. Sometimes he will say yes he does want to do it and at the last
minute he changes his mind. I have a hard time with this because people are
counting on us/him to be there and I have made arrangements or changed mine
and others schedules to do it. We have discussed it and he says that
sometimes when it comes time to do it he just doesn't feel like it. An
example-Last week he was asked to be in a chess tournament at the local
elementary school where he went to school for 2 years. He said yes and was
excited about it. I reminded him about it at least 4 times this week and he
even played chess with him Grandma to prepare for the tournament. We talked
about it this morning and he said he wanted to go. I made other arrangements
for the PS kids I watch after school and my husband took his motorcycle
instead of my car to work so that we could have the car. I prepared snacks
and such for my dd to have during the tournament and rescheduled our
appointment with our realtor. Then as I was getting ready to go he said he
didn't want to go. He said he just changed his mind and wants to play with
his friends instead. A year ago I would have yelled at him to get in the car
and given him a lecture on honoring commitments. Now I know that there must
be a better way.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Dawn in TX
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
our home. My son seems to be reneging on commitments pretty often. I will
ask him if he would like to do something or talk to him about an opportunity
has come up. Sometimes he will say yes he does want to do it and at the last
minute he changes his mind. I have a hard time with this because people are
counting on us/him to be there and I have made arrangements or changed mine
and others schedules to do it. We have discussed it and he says that
sometimes when it comes time to do it he just doesn't feel like it. An
example-Last week he was asked to be in a chess tournament at the local
elementary school where he went to school for 2 years. He said yes and was
excited about it. I reminded him about it at least 4 times this week and he
even played chess with him Grandma to prepare for the tournament. We talked
about it this morning and he said he wanted to go. I made other arrangements
for the PS kids I watch after school and my husband took his motorcycle
instead of my car to work so that we could have the car. I prepared snacks
and such for my dd to have during the tournament and rescheduled our
appointment with our realtor. Then as I was getting ready to go he said he
didn't want to go. He said he just changed his mind and wants to play with
his friends instead. A year ago I would have yelled at him to get in the car
and given him a lecture on honoring commitments. Now I know that there must
be a better way.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Dawn in TX
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Mar 10, 2006, at 3:06 PM, Momma wrote:
If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him in
a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressure
him more than is really necessary.
The schedule rearrangement comes kind of in in the category of buying
a dozen donuts. It's easy to THINK you're hungry enough to eat three
donuts, but if you buy a dozen for four people and each person eats
one and the rest are getting stale, it's not better to pressure
people to eat them than it is to just throw them out after a while.
If you traded cars and he doesn't want to go, the cars will be no
less traded if he goes. Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
But that said, I do have a practical suggestion. Don't make it all
or nothing. Say maybe "Let's just drive over there and see if you
feel differently," or see if he's hungry or doesn't like his shoes or
something plain and practical. Maybe he doesn't want to miss a
program; can you record it? Maybe he doesn't want to go out in the
cold. Maybe if he does get in the car and get there, maybe he'll
want to go in. Maybe it's the being at rest that he doesn't want to
change.
Maybe you could say "Let's go and watch a while, and then if you want
to come home we can." If he gets all the way in and sees the other
kids, he might want to stay, or he might not.
The final decision doesn't need to be made before you leave or even
after you get there. Every moment can be another "pass or play" point.
Instead of looking at it as a "commitment," think of it as a series
of choices.
Sandra
> I have a hard time with this because people areHow old is he?
> counting on us/him to be there and I have made arrangements or
> changed mine
> and others schedules to do it.
If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him in
a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressure
him more than is really necessary.
The schedule rearrangement comes kind of in in the category of buying
a dozen donuts. It's easy to THINK you're hungry enough to eat three
donuts, but if you buy a dozen for four people and each person eats
one and the rest are getting stale, it's not better to pressure
people to eat them than it is to just throw them out after a while.
If you traded cars and he doesn't want to go, the cars will be no
less traded if he goes. Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
But that said, I do have a practical suggestion. Don't make it all
or nothing. Say maybe "Let's just drive over there and see if you
feel differently," or see if he's hungry or doesn't like his shoes or
something plain and practical. Maybe he doesn't want to miss a
program; can you record it? Maybe he doesn't want to go out in the
cold. Maybe if he does get in the car and get there, maybe he'll
want to go in. Maybe it's the being at rest that he doesn't want to
change.
Maybe you could say "Let's go and watch a while, and then if you want
to come home we can." If he gets all the way in and sees the other
kids, he might want to stay, or he might not.
The final decision doesn't need to be made before you leave or even
after you get there. Every moment can be another "pass or play" point.
Instead of looking at it as a "commitment," think of it as a series
of choices.
Sandra
Momma
---How old is he?
He's 9 years old.
---If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him in
a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressure
him more than is really necessary.
He does play on a Hockey team and we are also involved in a French co-op
with 3 other families.
---Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
Maybe I mis-spoke. I do not try make him feel guilty at all. It does bother
me but I have only discussed with him why he doesn't want to go. Sometimes
it is not a big deal to decide not to go, but in some cases it is. When his
Hockey league traveled to Houston a few weeks ago the whole family went and
my husband took off work. We get there and everything was fine then when it
is time to get dressed to go to the game he said he doesn't want to go. He
wanted to sleep in.
My husband and I really try to make sure that the kids get to do all the
activities they would like to do. We almost never let cost be an issue
(Hockey is well over $1000 a year without counting travel). We do the best
we can to accommodate their interests but it's getting to the point where I
just don't want to mention opportunities for activities because I don't know
how he'll feel when the time comes to follow through.
I don't want to force him to do something he doesn't want to do but I feel
like I'm at the mercy of his whims. I wouldn't want to feel that way with
anyone.
Dawn
_____
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He's 9 years old.
---If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him in
a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressure
him more than is really necessary.
He does play on a Hockey team and we are also involved in a French co-op
with 3 other families.
---Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
Maybe I mis-spoke. I do not try make him feel guilty at all. It does bother
me but I have only discussed with him why he doesn't want to go. Sometimes
it is not a big deal to decide not to go, but in some cases it is. When his
Hockey league traveled to Houston a few weeks ago the whole family went and
my husband took off work. We get there and everything was fine then when it
is time to get dressed to go to the game he said he doesn't want to go. He
wanted to sleep in.
My husband and I really try to make sure that the kids get to do all the
activities they would like to do. We almost never let cost be an issue
(Hockey is well over $1000 a year without counting travel). We do the best
we can to accommodate their interests but it's getting to the point where I
just don't want to mention opportunities for activities because I don't know
how he'll feel when the time comes to follow through.
I don't want to force him to do something he doesn't want to do but I feel
like I'm at the mercy of his whims. I wouldn't want to feel that way with
anyone.
Dawn
_____
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
katherand2003
I can't count the times we have changed our minds about going to some
event we planned on. Sometimes there was an emergency that prevented
us but often we didn't like something about the event or the timing or
the people or our lives were fully or overly committed. We bailed out
at the last minute even though we were originally very enthused. We
called these events "commitments" but I think they were just simple
ordinary choices. To use the word commitment is to invest certain
events with a loaded at times heavy sense of duty. Duty is probably
not the reason we get excited about going somewhere or doing
something. But we promised, our word has to count for something, and
a number of other objections serve as references to ways that we're
used to thinking about commitments.
We could feel the same about words like job, work, chores as we could
about commitment.
If you and yours are not yet there and can't label the events in your
lives "choices" (my family isn't there yet but we're closer than we
used to be!) it may be because of the pressure you put on yourselves
which then transfers to your child, and anybody else you may meet ...
Heck, the grocery clerk may get a little stress from seeing you that
day. Being dutiful is an excellent thing and it's good to be a
reliable person. But it isn't good to be pressured by it. That goes
for anybody, adult or child.
Now. What if the pressure just wasn't there?
For that to happen, the people who might be expected to feel pressure
about car arrangements, lack of money, time, or similar limits, etc.
would have decided to let go of pressure rather than holding onto it
and passing it around. The key is to emphasize, talk about and go
toward what is wanted. A sweeter thing to pass around.
I have been trying to lighten myself from a sense of duty (otherwise
known as guilt). I have been trying to lighten my dh who brings
pressure home with him from work. Let go. Focus on people rather
than the events intended to benefit them. Let go of the aspects that
seem inherent in these things and seem to come from every direction.
Focus on the precious gifts each person is, refuse to accept pressure,
avoid passing it around.
An example. My little 2 1/2 year old ds wanted to use the spray
bottle yesterday. I wasted precious together time being annoyed at
not having the spray cleaner when I needed it. After about 15 fuming
minutes getting pressurized over the fact that not much was done and
stern with my little boy, I finally realized -- hey, ds just wants to
figure the spray bottle out. So I spent some time showing him some
things about how to use the thing. Those are things. Ds is a person
and that's what should matter. He then appointed himself the task
of spraying the floor wherever I needed it and some places I didn't...
;) A lot went on in that hour or so which we would have missed had I
not listened to what ds wanted, had I insisted on getting the job out
of the way. Realistically speaking, I can clean the floor at other
times and putting the job off wouldn't matter even if I were having
company over.
I posted this as much to benefit others if it can as I did to clarify
in my own mind things I've been trying to change about the way I think
and act especially toward my nearest and dearest. I could re-title
this post "Commitments or How to Stop Yelling".
Kathe
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
event we planned on. Sometimes there was an emergency that prevented
us but often we didn't like something about the event or the timing or
the people or our lives were fully or overly committed. We bailed out
at the last minute even though we were originally very enthused. We
called these events "commitments" but I think they were just simple
ordinary choices. To use the word commitment is to invest certain
events with a loaded at times heavy sense of duty. Duty is probably
not the reason we get excited about going somewhere or doing
something. But we promised, our word has to count for something, and
a number of other objections serve as references to ways that we're
used to thinking about commitments.
We could feel the same about words like job, work, chores as we could
about commitment.
If you and yours are not yet there and can't label the events in your
lives "choices" (my family isn't there yet but we're closer than we
used to be!) it may be because of the pressure you put on yourselves
which then transfers to your child, and anybody else you may meet ...
Heck, the grocery clerk may get a little stress from seeing you that
day. Being dutiful is an excellent thing and it's good to be a
reliable person. But it isn't good to be pressured by it. That goes
for anybody, adult or child.
Now. What if the pressure just wasn't there?
For that to happen, the people who might be expected to feel pressure
about car arrangements, lack of money, time, or similar limits, etc.
would have decided to let go of pressure rather than holding onto it
and passing it around. The key is to emphasize, talk about and go
toward what is wanted. A sweeter thing to pass around.
I have been trying to lighten myself from a sense of duty (otherwise
known as guilt). I have been trying to lighten my dh who brings
pressure home with him from work. Let go. Focus on people rather
than the events intended to benefit them. Let go of the aspects that
seem inherent in these things and seem to come from every direction.
Focus on the precious gifts each person is, refuse to accept pressure,
avoid passing it around.
An example. My little 2 1/2 year old ds wanted to use the spray
bottle yesterday. I wasted precious together time being annoyed at
not having the spray cleaner when I needed it. After about 15 fuming
minutes getting pressurized over the fact that not much was done and
stern with my little boy, I finally realized -- hey, ds just wants to
figure the spray bottle out. So I spent some time showing him some
things about how to use the thing. Those are things. Ds is a person
and that's what should matter. He then appointed himself the task
of spraying the floor wherever I needed it and some places I didn't...
;) A lot went on in that hour or so which we would have missed had I
not listened to what ds wanted, had I insisted on getting the job out
of the way. Realistically speaking, I can clean the floor at other
times and putting the job off wouldn't matter even if I were having
company over.
I posted this as much to benefit others if it can as I did to clarify
in my own mind things I've been trying to change about the way I think
and act especially toward my nearest and dearest. I could re-title
this post "Commitments or How to Stop Yelling".
Kathe
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2006, at 3:06 PM, Momma wrote:
>
> > I have a hard time with this because people are
> > counting on us/him to be there and I have made arrangements or
> > changed mine
> > and others schedules to do it.
>
>
> How old is he?
>
> If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him in
> a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressure
> him more than is really necessary.
>
> The schedule rearrangement comes kind of in in the category of buying
> a dozen donuts. It's easy to THINK you're hungry enough to eat three
> donuts, but if you buy a dozen for four people and each person eats
> one and the rest are getting stale, it's not better to pressure
> people to eat them than it is to just throw them out after a while.
>
> If you traded cars and he doesn't want to go, the cars will be no
> less traded if he goes. Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
>
> But that said, I do have a practical suggestion. Don't make it all
> or nothing. Say maybe "Let's just drive over there and see if you
> feel differently," or see if he's hungry or doesn't like his shoes or
> something plain and practical. Maybe he doesn't want to miss a
> program; can you record it? Maybe he doesn't want to go out in the
> cold. Maybe if he does get in the car and get there, maybe he'll
> want to go in. Maybe it's the being at rest that he doesn't want to
> change.
>
> Maybe you could say "Let's go and watch a while, and then if you want
> to come home we can." If he gets all the way in and sees the other
> kids, he might want to stay, or he might not.
>
> The final decision doesn't need to be made before you leave or even
> after you get there. Every moment can be another "pass or play" point.
>
> Instead of looking at it as a "commitment," think of it as a series
> of choices.
>
> Sandra
>
katherand2003
When I was 9 if my parents were to say $1000, I wouldn't know how to
think about it. When commitments of $1000+ are bailed out on (or is
it one game only we're talking about?), in your mind, is it as if 1000
dollars were wasted? How are you thinking of it?
Kathe
--- In [email protected], "Momma"
<Mommy2myBabies@...> wrote:
think about it. When commitments of $1000+ are bailed out on (or is
it one game only we're talking about?), in your mind, is it as if 1000
dollars were wasted? How are you thinking of it?
Kathe
--- In [email protected], "Momma"
<Mommy2myBabies@...> wrote:
>in
> ---How old is he?
>
> He's 9 years old.
>
>
>
> ---If he's in a play or on a sports team, people are counting on him
> a way that's not as true in most other circumstances. Don't pressurebother
> him more than is really necessary.
>
>
>
> He does play on a Hockey team and we are also involved in a French co-op
> with 3 other families.
>
>
>
> ---Making him feel really guilty won't help much.
>
>
>
> Maybe I mis-spoke. I do not try make him feel guilty at all. It does
> me but I have only discussed with him why he doesn't want to go.Sometimes
> it is not a big deal to decide not to go, but in some cases it is.When his
> Hockey league traveled to Houston a few weeks ago the whole familywent and
> my husband took off work. We get there and everything was fine thenwhen it
> is time to get dressed to go to the game he said he doesn't want togo. He
> wanted to sleep in.the best
>
> My husband and I really try to make sure that the kids get to do all the
> activities they would like to do. We almost never let cost be an issue
> (Hockey is well over $1000 a year without counting travel). We do
> we can to accommodate their interests but it's getting to the pointwhere I
> just don't want to mention opportunities for activities because Idon't know
> how he'll feel when the time comes to follow through.I feel
>
> I don't want to force him to do something he doesn't want to do but
> like I'm at the mercy of his whims. I wouldn't want to feel that waywith
> anyone.
>
> Dawn
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Momma
_____
* When I was 9 if my parents were to say $1000, I wouldn't know how to
think about it. When commitments of $1000+ are bailed out on (or is
it one game only we're talking about?), in your mind, is it as if 1000
dollars were wasted? How are you thinking of it?
Kathe
Well, he's backing out often enough now that we won't do it next year. The
money is not the real issue but it is something we have to think about. We
are not a rich family. No, I don't really feel as if the money is wasted if
he is having a good time doing it and I want him to have the opportunity. I
think my dh takes it kind of hard because he has to do weeks of side jobs
before the season starts for us to be able to afford it. My dh never
complains about the extra work but I can see that it hurts him when our ds
has those days where he backs out at the last minute.
Dawn
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
* When I was 9 if my parents were to say $1000, I wouldn't know how to
think about it. When commitments of $1000+ are bailed out on (or is
it one game only we're talking about?), in your mind, is it as if 1000
dollars were wasted? How are you thinking of it?
Kathe
Well, he's backing out often enough now that we won't do it next year. The
money is not the real issue but it is something we have to think about. We
are not a rich family. No, I don't really feel as if the money is wasted if
he is having a good time doing it and I want him to have the opportunity. I
think my dh takes it kind of hard because he has to do weeks of side jobs
before the season starts for us to be able to afford it. My dh never
complains about the extra work but I can see that it hurts him when our ds
has those days where he backs out at the last minute.
Dawn
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Mar 11, 2006, at 1:44 PM, katherand2003 wrote:
known as guilt).-=-
I don't think "a sense of duty" needs always to be synonymous with
guilt. Sometimes it is, and then it moves from simple duty to
burden, and that's a problem.
Kathe wrote a great post, and I'm sure she knows duty isn't always
guilt.
A duty someone else lays on you is way worse than a self-chosen
obligation. If you obligate yourself to do something, you made a
choice.
People can opt out of doing their duty, but then it affects them in
the integrity, in the "points" they earn to spend with other people,
or in the trust others will have in them. That's the way I've
explained it to my kids. If they want to be trustworthy they need to
be very careful about what they attempt or agree to. Overcommitting
isn't good. Overextending isn't good.
Before Keith and I had kids we had people depending on us for all
kinds of things. Our hobby involved committing lots of time and
energy and responsibiity. When we had kids, we moved toward making
the kids the top priority, so we would only commit to things when
others knew the kids came first. Few outside projects got as high a
priority as we used to give them, but we tried to clarify that.
If Keith volunteers me to do something, that's not as cool as if I
volunteer myself. My obligation ends up being to Keith in those
cases, not to the third party he made a promise too. And he has
spent some of his points with me if he commits me to do something I
wasn't in on.
If a parent commits a child to a project without really checking with
the child, without helping the child make a fully informed decision,
the parent is failing in a duty to the child, and the trust that is
lost will be on the part of the parent to some extent, in the eyes of
the child.
Sandra
> -=-Being dutiful is an excellent thing and it's good to be a-=-I have been trying to lighten myself from a sense of duty (otherwise
> reliable person. But it isn't good to be pressured by it. That goes
> for anybody, adult or child.-=-
known as guilt).-=-
I don't think "a sense of duty" needs always to be synonymous with
guilt. Sometimes it is, and then it moves from simple duty to
burden, and that's a problem.
Kathe wrote a great post, and I'm sure she knows duty isn't always
guilt.
A duty someone else lays on you is way worse than a self-chosen
obligation. If you obligate yourself to do something, you made a
choice.
People can opt out of doing their duty, but then it affects them in
the integrity, in the "points" they earn to spend with other people,
or in the trust others will have in them. That's the way I've
explained it to my kids. If they want to be trustworthy they need to
be very careful about what they attempt or agree to. Overcommitting
isn't good. Overextending isn't good.
Before Keith and I had kids we had people depending on us for all
kinds of things. Our hobby involved committing lots of time and
energy and responsibiity. When we had kids, we moved toward making
the kids the top priority, so we would only commit to things when
others knew the kids came first. Few outside projects got as high a
priority as we used to give them, but we tried to clarify that.
If Keith volunteers me to do something, that's not as cool as if I
volunteer myself. My obligation ends up being to Keith in those
cases, not to the third party he made a promise too. And he has
spent some of his points with me if he commits me to do something I
wasn't in on.
If a parent commits a child to a project without really checking with
the child, without helping the child make a fully informed decision,
the parent is failing in a duty to the child, and the trust that is
lost will be on the part of the parent to some extent, in the eyes of
the child.
Sandra
Kathleen Whitfield
I wanted to add that I have a 10yo boy who sometimes will do a similar
thing: Be real excited about something, but then not really want to get out
the door when the time comes. It's not that he doesn't want to do the thing;
he doesn't want to stop what he's doing at that second, particularly if it
involves playing with friends. My 7.5yo is the same way. Sometimes, too,
there's a bit of a buildup for an event and they're getting cold feet as the
event approaches.
I find, too, that when the kids start talking consistently about not wanting
to do things -- particularly things that they enjoy -- it means that we're
doing too much, that they need more stay-at-home-and-relax time.
Kathleen
in LA
thing: Be real excited about something, but then not really want to get out
the door when the time comes. It's not that he doesn't want to do the thing;
he doesn't want to stop what he's doing at that second, particularly if it
involves playing with friends. My 7.5yo is the same way. Sometimes, too,
there's a bit of a buildup for an event and they're getting cold feet as the
event approaches.
I find, too, that when the kids start talking consistently about not wanting
to do things -- particularly things that they enjoy -- it means that we're
doing too much, that they need more stay-at-home-and-relax time.
Kathleen
in LA
Angela S.
One thing I try to do with my kids is to talk about how much money something
costs by comparing it to something else we could buy. For instance, if we
were thinking about joining the gym/pool for the month and they seemed
interested, but not overly excited, I might say, just to get them thinking
about the value of it, "the money we would spend to join the pool for the
month is equivalent to 6 riding lessons. Please think about whether or not
you really want to join, because that's a lot of money for us and I don't
want to feel like I wasted it if you decide you'd rather not go after we
join." I just try to put things in perspective as to how much money it is
and when I compare it to something else it makes it easier to see.
Have you talked about the value of $1000 and how many hours your dh has to
work to earn that much money? Did he know what kind of a commitment hockey
was when he joined or was this his first year?
I am not one to make my kids stick with something if they didn't know what
they were getting into, but if they played hockey last year and knew what
kind of a commitment it was before they joined and they knew how much it
costs, I wouldn't feel to badly about pressuring them to keep the commitment
they made. That said, I also try really hard to help my kids realize the
commitment they are signing up for when they do sign up for something. That
means we often go watch for several weeks and make sure that it is something
they are willing to stick with.
So far, it hasn't been a problem and they've stuck with the things they've
committed to. But money is an issue for us and I try to really make sure
they understand what they are getting in to if they want to do something
that costs a lot or if they make a commitment where people will be counting
on them regularly.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
costs by comparing it to something else we could buy. For instance, if we
were thinking about joining the gym/pool for the month and they seemed
interested, but not overly excited, I might say, just to get them thinking
about the value of it, "the money we would spend to join the pool for the
month is equivalent to 6 riding lessons. Please think about whether or not
you really want to join, because that's a lot of money for us and I don't
want to feel like I wasted it if you decide you'd rather not go after we
join." I just try to put things in perspective as to how much money it is
and when I compare it to something else it makes it easier to see.
Have you talked about the value of $1000 and how many hours your dh has to
work to earn that much money? Did he know what kind of a commitment hockey
was when he joined or was this his first year?
I am not one to make my kids stick with something if they didn't know what
they were getting into, but if they played hockey last year and knew what
kind of a commitment it was before they joined and they knew how much it
costs, I wouldn't feel to badly about pressuring them to keep the commitment
they made. That said, I also try really hard to help my kids realize the
commitment they are signing up for when they do sign up for something. That
means we often go watch for several weeks and make sure that it is something
they are willing to stick with.
So far, it hasn't been a problem and they've stuck with the things they've
committed to. But money is an issue for us and I try to really make sure
they understand what they are getting in to if they want to do something
that costs a lot or if they make a commitment where people will be counting
on them regularly.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...