Kimberly

I am new to the group. I'm Kimberly, married to Darren
and have 2 girls- Chloe (5 1/2) and Kylie (2 1/2).

A bit of background- Chloe was born at 22.5 weeks
gestation and was 1.5 lbs at birth. The only issue
with her early birth is that she has extremely mild
cerebral palsy on her left side which for her means
her calf and hamstring muscles on that side are
tighter/looser than they should be. She does also have
a problem with constipation so she takes Milk of
Magnesia every night which works great. It isn't habit
forming to her body like MiraLax is. Thank goodness
she wasn't on it long enough for that to happen. Chloe
is who I am basically asking about for now. I think!

I let my girls get up when they wake up. I was using
an alarm and having them get up at 8am. Sometimes they
would get up early and sometimes later. Now they seem
to get up anywhere between 7:30am and 9am on their
own. Chloe doesn't take a nap but Kylie does for
however long she sleeps. I have just within the last 3
weeks let her get up on her own (open her door and get
up).

I have read a ton - and I mean a ton of emails
regarding unschooling on this group but can't come
across anything to answer my questions so I'm hoping
for some help as I am trying to deschool my brain.

Chloe would watch tv a good part of the day if I let
her - and I have tried it just recently- and play Xbox
and Gameboy and play computer games and not help me
around the house at all if I didn't ask. She is
genuinely a very loving and caring child. How do you
handle cleaning around the house? I have absolutely no
problem letting her and her sister leave their room a
mess since it is their room. Growing up my mother told
me that it wasn't "my (meaning me Kimberly) room as it
was hers because she is the one who paid the rent,
food, etc. Make a long story short she was a horrible
mother who I no longer speak with. So I don't want my
kids feeling the same way. It is their room regardless
of who pays the rent here. What I am concerned with is
that my 2 1/2 year old gets into her sisters things
and leaves them all over when Chloe has picked up her
room (at my asking) and she gets frustrated over this.
Do I put them in separate rooms? Kylie wanted to go in
Chloes room and would have her way in it and I'd end
up picking it up which I got tired of. I was also
tired of closing Chloes door so Kylie wouldn't go in.

Also- how do you handle snacks when they haven't eaten
very good at lunch, dinner, etc? Chloe will say she is
full but then want an immediate snack. What is
considered a snack? Cookies, candy, fruit, yogurt? How
many snacks a day? Whenever they want?

One more thing- we have 3 bedrooms upstairs - one for
me and my hubby, one for the girls (there is a
two-shelf bookcase in there loaded with books, a tub
for Barbies, Barbie clothes, cars, etc, a baby doll
bed, a baby doll stroller, a goldfish on top of their
dresser) and one I am trying to get away from calling
the "schoolroom". In the "schoolroom" I have a total
of 8 stackable storage shelves along one whole wall
that were meant to store shoes on in a closet but I
have toys on them in plastic tubs. Toys such as gears,
playdoh, playdoh pieces, jigsaw puzzles, pegboard,
lacing cards, duplos, mega blocks, etc. I have a play
kitchen and tons of play food with Dora talking house
along another wall, non-fiction books on different
things such as bugs, cultures, occupations, animals,
etc on a stackable shelf with workbooks underneath,
craft things on another wall. It feels too schoolish I
think for Chloe. She doesn't go in there too much.
What can I do differently? I don't want big bookcases
all over - or do I?

Thank you for taking the time to read to this point!
Any help would be very much appreciated! I know every
family is sooo different but sometimes it is just one
thing someone says that helps so much!

Kimberly P.
mother and wife to Darren, Chloe and Kylie

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wifetovegman2002

--- In [email protected], Kimberly
<barehug4u2@...> wrote:

> Chloe would watch tv a good part of the day if I let
> her - and I have tried it just recently- and play Xbox
> and Gameboy and play computer games and not help me
> around the house at all if I didn't ask. She is
> genuinely a very loving and caring child.


She is only 5 1/2, right? She shouldn't *have to* help you around the
house at all. Her only job is playing and learning and growing. All
her energy should go into those. Your job as an unschooling parent is
to free her from those expectations so she can do her job.

How long did you try "just letting her watch tv"?

Is she watching tv because it is what she enjoys, or because you
aren't engaged and the other options seem less appealing? Are you
watching tv with her, engaging her about the shows she chooses? Are
you playing the video games and computer games with her?

How are you engaging the girls throughout the day? Many times parents
complain about their children watching too much tv or playing video
games all the time, but the parent hasn't gotten down with them and
tried to see what is appealing to them about what they are doing,
participating in them with the kids, nor really offered any alternatives.

~Susan M (in VA)
wifetovegman

Schuyler Waynforth

--- In [email protected], Kimberly
<barehug4u2@...> wrote:

> I have just within the last 3
> weeks let her get up on her own (open her door and get
> up).

My mom used to put me to down for my nap in a bedroom and close the
door. One day when she was chatting with the neighbor (it was over
the backyard fence in that classic housewife 1950's way) the neighbor
told her that the police were coming up to the house with me. Mom
said no, it couldn't be, Schuyler is taking a nap, which she knew with
certainty because the door was closed. But I had gotten up and opened
and closed the bedroom door and opened and closed the front door and
wandered off, crossing a few minor suburban roads as I went. I was
never closed into a room for a nap again.

> Chloe would watch tv a good part of the day if I let
> her - and I have tried it just recently-

For how long? How long did you give her to let her trust that you
weren't going to take away the television? Did you sigh and make
those little comments that let her know you didn't really believe that
this was something you could trust her to choose? Did you then start
to limit her again thereby underscoring her belief that television is
a restricted good that she must hoard and treasure and watch as much
as possible whenever she is given the opportunity?

Sandra Dodd has put together a great list of "if I let" quotes here:
http://sandradodd.com/strew/ifilet and Pam Sorooshian has a wonderful
piece on the utility of restricted versus unrestricted goods here:
http://www.sandradodd.com/t/economics.html .


> How do you
> handle cleaning around the house?

I usually wait until it is a bit fuzzy from the dog fur and maybe I
stepped on a jack and hurt that soft part of my foot<g>--although
recently because we are selling the house and have put a bunch of
stuff in storage the house is much cleaner. A clean house isn't among
my top priorities. If we have guests coming there is usually a fury
of cleaning, but that is my need and not Simon and Linnaea's need.
And when it is their need they clean. The other day Linnaea helped
clean the house because she wanted to help us get as much money as
possible when we sell the house so that we can maximize the size of
our next house's backyard. Dawn (in NS) wrote a wonderful post at
unschooling.info about creating clean spaces for her children to make
a new mess in:
http://www.unschooling.info/collectedposts/collectedposts1.htm

> What I am concerned with is
> that my 2 1/2 year old gets into her sisters things
> and leaves them all over when Chloe has picked up her
> room (at my asking) and she gets frustrated over this.
> Do I put them in separate rooms? Kylie wanted to go in
> Chloes room and would have her way in it and I'd end
> up picking it up which I got tired of. I was also
> tired of closing Chloes door so Kylie wouldn't go in.

I can understand Chloe's frustration. She did a job that she didn't
want to do and then along comes her pain in the butt younger sibling
and messes it up. I'm sure my brother felt that toward me more times
than I can remember. I loved going into his room, it was full of so
many exciting things that might just lead to me having a closer
relationship with him. He used to leave tapes in his big tape
recorder with a sign on the recorder saying HANDS OFF!! so of course
the first thing I would mess with when I'd snuck in his room. And
there he would be speaking with a vampire accent telling me how I was
going to be consumed by evil demons for entering into the sacred
chamber of Sam. I loved it, but I don't really know how he felt about
it. And now, when we are all grown, our relationship is a study in
disinterest, so I am unlikely to ask him.

Now, my two children, Simon and Linnaea sort of share a room. I mean
their official room is one that they share, but Linnaea is more likely
to sleep in David and my bedroom on a futon on the floor and Simon
will often sleep downstairs on the couch. Recently Linnaea has been
sleeping on the sofa-bed downstairs with Simon on the other couch.
So, there is no real sense of personal space. If their bedroom gets
trashed, as it often does when friends come over, it is my gift to
them that I clean it. I love cleaning their room, I love the process
of setting out their favorite things so that they can find them at
some later moment. I love seeing what they have strewn about and
imagining the path that it took to arrive there. Yesterday we had to
show the house on relatively short notice. Simon is trying to save up
to buy King Kong for the Gamecube and has been asking for ways to earn
money. I offered him 3 pounds to clean his room, he wanted 5, but I
thought it was only worth 3, so he negotiated for more money if he
cleaned a different room as well. In the end he only got 3 pounds
because while he was motivated enough to clean the one room he just
wasn't keen enough to keep going. He did a pretty good job for an 8
almost 9 year old who has never cleaned his room before (actually I
think he has cleaned it before, he and Linnaea both have helped me
clean before, and they've both independently cleaned the living room
as a gift to David and me). But if Linnaea (who is 5 almost 6) had
come into the room when it was clean and played with her toys and
dressed up and left little piles of busyness all over the room, it
wouldn't have negated what he had done. It wouldn't have taken away
from the 3 pounds that he had earned. It wouldn't have put stress on
their relationship. I would have swept through and tidied it back up
as best I could in what time I had before the showing. Having that
peace in their lives allows them to enjoy each other in ways that I
cannot remember enjoying with my brother.


> Also- how do you handle snacks when they haven't eaten
> very good at lunch, dinner, etc? Chloe will say she is
> full but then want an immediate snack. What is
> considered a snack? Cookies, candy, fruit, yogurt? How
> many snacks a day? Whenever they want?

In our house everything that is eaten is food: a candy bar is food, a
cookie is food, a burrito is food, brocolli is food, nori is food.
And just as I eat whatever and whenever I want so do they. I put out
food for them most days. So I'll fix a tray of celery and carrots or
some fruit or olives or a selection of chips (in Britain they tend to
sell most chips (crisps here) in individual serving packets) and bring
it to wherever they are (for another description of the kind of thing:
http://www.sandradodd.com/eating/monkeyplatter.html) They eat what
they want and I put away or throw out what they leave. There are
usually some sweets in the house as well as lots of savory treats. If
they want something specific they ask and if we have the ingredients I
will fix it and if not than it will either be written into the next
grocery list or we will go out and get what is lacking in that moment
(or call David at work to pick it up on his way home). Maybe Chloe is
full of whatever she is eating. Maybe the idea of another bite of
mashed potatoes is more than she can handle, but a nice dish of ice
cream with chocolate syrup is what is needed to give her that lovely
full feeling.


Schuyler

www.waynforth.blogspot.com

Schuyler Waynforth

--- In [email protected], Kimberly
<barehug4u2@...> wrote:

> One more thing- we have 3 bedrooms upstairs - one for
> me and my hubby, one for the girls (there is a
> two-shelf bookcase in there loaded with books, a tub
> for Barbies, Barbie clothes, cars, etc, a baby doll
> bed, a baby doll stroller, a goldfish on top of their
> dresser) and one I am trying to get away from calling
> the "schoolroom". In the "schoolroom" I have a total
> of 8 stackable storage shelves along one whole wall
> that were meant to store shoes on in a closet but I
> have toys on them in plastic tubs. Toys such as gears,
> playdoh, playdoh pieces, jigsaw puzzles, pegboard,
> lacing cards, duplos, mega blocks, etc. I have a play
> kitchen and tons of play food with Dora talking house
> along another wall, non-fiction books on different
> things such as bugs, cultures, occupations, animals,
> etc on a stackable shelf with workbooks underneath,
> craft things on another wall. It feels too schoolish I
> think for Chloe. She doesn't go in there too much.
> What can I do differently? I don't want big bookcases
> all over - or do I?


Do you go in there much? Do you go and sit and put together jigsaw
puzzles or read a book or do crafts? Is it a space that you visit?
Or is it a place that was set up so that Chloe could go there by
herself and learn? Most of our lives are lived in the family room, in
the more public spaces of the house. If Linnaea wants to sculpt with
playdoh I pull out a big plastic picnic mat and put it out on the
floor along with her backpack filled with playdoh tools and tubs. If
Simon wants to work on his paint by numbers set it comes out on the
kitchen table (which may need a bit of tidying to make space). Most
of the craft things are downstairs, visible, relatively accessible.
There isn't any separation of life and art or life and books or life
and children. Maybe if you put a really comfy chair in there and
starting using the space yourself Chloe would be more likely to see it
as an inviting space.

Schuyler

http://waynforth.blogspot.com/

Sandra Dodd

On Mar 5, 2006, at 12:22 AM, Kimberly wrote:

> I have read a ton - and I mean a ton of emails
> regarding unschooling on this group but can't come
> across anything to answer my questions so I'm hoping
> for some help as I am trying to deschool my brain.


Many of those questions would have been answered in the links people
were providing.
The concerns you're having have been addressed MANY, many times, and
some of the best answers have been collected on webpages so that
people don't have to go through the archives of the list, which is
not an easy thing to do under any circumstances.

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

There are several articles on deschooling. If you follow all those
links you'll be well on your way.

Joyce Fetteroll (one of three listowners) has a clear, logical way
of answering these questions, and has made a collection of her own
answers so she doesn't have to re-write the specs for the wheel every
week:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/

-=-how do you handle snacks when they haven't eaten
very good at lunch, dinner, etc? Chloe will say she is
full but then want an immediate snack. What is
considered a snack? Cookies, candy, fruit, yogurt? How
many snacks a day? Whenever they want? -=-

http://sandradodd.com/food

Lots of ideas there.

-=-one I am trying to get away from calling the "schoolroom".-=-

Why can't it be a playroom? A storage room, or idea room?

http://sandradodd.com/strewing


Sandra

Sandra Dodd

> Chloe would watch tv a good part of the day if I let
> her - and I have tried it just recently-


Tried it for how long?

http://sandradodd.com/strew/ifilet

Please read some of those. I won't add yours because "a good part of
the day" isn't very dramatic, but statements like that are not
helpful, and they're false anyway.

If you starve someone for a week, he will eat all the food he can get
for a long time thereafter (once he's recovered well enough to eat.

If you give someone access to lots of good food and he trusts that
that source isn't about to be taken away, he will only eat what he
really wants or needs.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

Schulyer's questions are good ones.


> Do you go in there much? Do you go and sit and put together jigsaw
> puzzles or read a book or do crafts? Is it a space that you visit?


Is there music? A TV and DVD player maybe? Is it warm enough? Are
there comfy chairs?

Can it just be a storage room and the real action happen in the
kitchen or den?

Sandra

Kimberly

I'm not asking that what I say be added to anything. I
am a mom who is just trying to reverse everything I
was taught growing up so that I can allow my child to
be her own person who makes her own choices because it
is what she wants for herself.

I simply do not know how to wrap my brain around all
of this and am asking for clarification on things.

Someone who has never "read" heiroglyphics doesn't
just learn by looking at it one time just as I am not
going to understand all of this in one day.

Add me to what you feel you need - leave me off what
you feel you need to. I'm not trying to become a piece
of anyones comments. Just trying to learn how to be
the best mom, supporter, etc I can be.

--- Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

>
> > Chloe would watch tv a good part of the day if I
> let
> > her - and I have tried it just recently-
>
>
> Tried it for how long?
>
> http://sandradodd.com/strew/ifilet
>
> Please read some of those. I won't add yours
> because "a good part of
> the day" isn't very dramatic, but statements like
> that are not
> helpful, and they're false anyway.
>
> If you starve someone for a week, he will eat all
> the food he can get
> for a long time thereafter (once he's recovered well
> enough to eat.
>
> If you give someone access to lots of good food and
> he trusts that
> that source isn't about to be taken away, he will
> only eat what he
> really wants or needs.
>
> Sandra
>


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kazitetalibuse

She does also have
> a problem with constipation so she takes Milk of
> Magnesia every night which works great. It isn't habit
> forming to her body like MiraLax is.

This cought my eye.
When my daughter was 2 she spent a year having a hard time with
constipation. We went from doctor to doctor. It was so frustrating.
Finally I found some info on the internet and started giving her
mineral oil at night (careful that she does not cry while swallowing
it so that it does not end up in her lungs) and metamusil twice a day
with apple sauce. Within weeks she was fine.

> How do you
> handle cleaning around the house? I have absolutely no
> problem letting her and her sister leave their room a
> mess since it is their room.

I really don't know about this one either. The ideas on unschooling
web sites about chores appeal to me. But I am often unable to hold my
tongue and clean around them as they play without eventually blowing
up, which seems even worse to me than if I asked them to help in the
first place.
When I do keep my mouth shut and switch my focus from cleaning to
them, often they actually help me out and even take pride in their
work. Which makes me think that there might be something to that study
on success that I keep hearing about. If taking pride in ones work,
feeling a sense of accomplishment, competence, participation through
being part of the house cleaning team leads to a success in adult life
(as the study I mention below suggests), may be involving them in
chores is a beneficial thing after all? I don't know...

Here is an article about the study:

http://education.umn.edu/research/ResearchWorks/Rossmann.html

Quote:
"Using measures of individual's success such as completion of
education, getting started on a career path, IQ, relationships with
family and friends, and not using drugs, and examining a child's
involvement in household tasks at all three earlier time, Rossmann
determined that the best predictor of young adults' success in their
mid-20s was that they participated in household tasks when they were
three or four. However, if they did not begin participating until they
were 15 or 16, the participation backfired and those subjects were
less "successful." The assumption is that responsibility learned via
household tasks is best when learned young.

How the tasks are presented also influences children's abilities to
become well-adjusted adults. The tasks should not be too overwhelming,
parents should present the tasks in a way that fits the child's
preferred learning style, and children should be involved in
determining the tasks they will complete, through family meeting and
methods such a weekly chore chart. They should not be made to do the
tasks for an allowance. The earlier parents begin getting children to
take an active role in the household, the easier it will be to get
them involved as teens."


> What I am concerned with is
> that my 2 1/2 year old gets into her sisters things
> and leaves them all over when Chloe has picked up her
> room (at my asking) and she gets frustrated over this.
> Do I put them in separate rooms?

My girls are 5 years apart. They shared a room until the younger one
was 2 1/2. The spare bedroom was the older girl's playroom where she
has her art table and all her supplies. We put a plastic cover on the
doorknob to prevent the younger one from going in there alone. When it
started to be a problem for her, we made a big deal of setting up
their bedroom as her own special room with her own toys, bed, and
things. The older one moved into her playroom. We took the plastic
cover off the doorknob and try to help them both to respect each
other's space, room, things. They do pretty well with that.


> Also- how do you handle snacks when they haven't eaten
> very good at lunch, dinner, etc? Chloe will say she is
> full but then want an immediate snack. What is
> considered a snack? Cookies, candy, fruit, yogurt? How
> many snacks a day? Whenever they want?

I struggle with food, too. We (parents) choose not to buy stuff with
sugar and I worry that the kids will see it as limits that are too
controlling. On the other hand, I literally suffer (and as a result of
my pain, my family suffers from my neglect) when I eat sugar and if it
is around me or anywhere in the house, it's truly too hard for me not
to eat it. It's pretty much as if someone was trying to stop smoking
and others smoked in front of him/her or smoked in the house (or with
trying to stop drinking alcohol). My younger girl loves to eat even
when she is not hungry and would eat all the time - same as you
describe with Chloe. I have noticed that often she is just asking for
attention, not food. An offer of play, reading book etc. easily puts
her attention on something else than food. Not that I criticise her
wish to eat, if she asks again, she gets what she wants (cold cuts,
frozen blueberries, fruit, left-overs, cheese -whatever).


Renata

Sandra Dodd

On Mar 5, 2006, at 2:14 PM, kazitetalibuse wrote:

> If taking pride in ones work,
> feeling a sense of accomplishment, competence, participation through
> being part of the house cleaning team leads to a success in adult life
> (as the study I mention below suggests), may be involving them in
> chores is a beneficial thing after all?


Usually when someone's talking about chores, they're not talking
about "involving children," but rather commanding and requiring and
shaming and punishing. Children rarely escape chores rules without
being belittled and left alone to do something distasteful, all the
while building up a big charge of resentment and maybe hatred,
depending how large the chore load is and what the penalty is for not
"finishing chores."


One of the first and biggest things a parent can do when thinking
about this is to really look at the word "chore." It doesn't sound
fun. It doesn't sound like something one would choose to do. It
will help (not might, but full-on WILL help) to talk about the things
themselves as what they are—cleaning the kitchen, feeding the dog,
pulling the weeds—rather than defining them as a class of evils and
THEN deciding whether or not to "require" children to "do them."




And of that study, I would bet big bucks that the researchers have
never met a teen who grew up without chores, whose parents gave him
lots of choices and opportunities, and who didn't go to school. So
honestly, that research doesn't apply to us.

-=-The earlier parents begin getting children to
take an active role in the household, the easier it will be to get
them involved as teens."-=-

You don't have to "get them" to take an active role if they have,
since birth, been treated respectfully.

-=-The assumption is that responsibility learned via
household tasks is best when learned young.-=-

The assumption is that responsibility (defined, it seems from that
excerpt as "success in their
mid-20s" was learned from household tasks.

Anyone who gets a chance to meet my kids at a conference or here
should talk to them, spy on them, see whether they seem responsible.
They don't have to have jobs, they don't need to have jobs, but they
do. They're SUPER responsible kids.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

On Mar 5, 2006, at 12:05 PM, Kimberly wrote:

> -=-I'm not asking that what I say be added to anything.

I was being complimentary. Only the worst are added there.
(I'm guessing you responded without actually looking at the link.)


> -=-I
> am a mom who is just trying to reverse everything I
> was taught growing up so that I can allow my child to
> be her own person who makes her own choices because it
> is what she wants for herself. -=-

We can help you.

-=-Someone who has never "read" heiroglyphics doesn't
just learn by looking at it one time just as I am not
going to understand all of this in one day. -=-

None of us understood it in one day either. I used to wait two
months for another issue of Growing Without Schooling, which I would
read from cover to cover, including credits and personals, and then
wish I had more.

We can offer you more in one day than you could have gotten in a year
when some of us started, but you will need to follow some of the
links people put up on the list to get to it. You can learn more in
a month than existed in the whole world, about unschooling, when some
of us started.

Sandra

Drew & Tami

I don't know from studies on chores...but I know Sandra, and her kids.
She's right. They are super responsible...and kind, and all those good
things.

I also know myself. I did not do chores. My mom is and was a
perfectionist, and liked things just so...so she did them herself. My
grandma mostly raised me, and DOTED on me. No chores. I could help if I
wanted, and I mostly did, but not always.

I'm good now. I clean my house, am very organized, and even though we move
often, the unpacking gets done and there is not chaos in my house or my
head.

Studies are studies. Real life is different, and kids do best when they can
BE kids. If you knew there would be famine next year, would you start
starving your kids now, just so they'd "be prepared"? Maybe not.

Tami, who tries to keep things tidy to offset her book habit.


>>>Anyone who gets a chance to meet my kids at a conference or here
should talk to them, spy on them, see whether they seem responsible.
They don't have to have jobs, they don't need to have jobs, but they
do. They're SUPER responsible kids.

Sandra<<<

kazitetalibuse

>
> One of the first and biggest things a parent can do when thinking
> about this is to really look at the word "chore." It doesn't sound
> fun. It doesn't sound like something one would choose to do. It
> will help (not might, but full-on WILL help) to talk about the things
> themselves as what they are—cleaning the kitchen, feeding the dog,
> pulling the weeds—rather than defining them as a class of evils and
> THEN deciding whether or not to "require" children to "do them."
>

I agree. The word chores sounds horrible. English is my second
language and the word chores doesn't even translate into my language.
We just use the things themselves as you mention them. I actually have
never felt comfortable with all those recommended chore charts etc. It
does make it all seem like a pile of unpleasant things to do, while
for example organizing and cleaning the sinks is something that my
older daughter enjoys doing (according to her). Yesterday I wrote a
list of all the things that needed to be done over the weekend (park
outing desired by my daughter included). some of the stuff were
cleaning tasks, some were things that were due (sending Thank You
cards etc.), some were things we all would enjoy. I posted it on the
wall and everyone participated by choice. It worked out just fine.

Renata

jenstarc4

>
> One more thing- we have 3 bedrooms upstairs - one for
> me and my hubby, one for the girls (there is a
> two-shelf bookcase in there loaded with books, a tub
> for Barbies, Barbie clothes, cars, etc, a baby doll
> bed, a baby doll stroller, a goldfish on top of their
> dresser) and one I am trying to get away from calling
> the "schoolroom". In the "schoolroom" I have a total
> of 8 stackable storage shelves along one whole wall
> that were meant to store shoes on in a closet but I
> have toys on them in plastic tubs. Toys such as gears,
> playdoh, playdoh pieces, jigsaw puzzles, pegboard,
> lacing cards, duplos, mega blocks, etc. I have a play
> kitchen and tons of play food with Dora talking house
> along another wall, non-fiction books on different
> things such as bugs, cultures, occupations, animals,
> etc on a stackable shelf with workbooks underneath,
> craft things on another wall. It feels too schoolish I
> think for Chloe. She doesn't go in there too much.
> What can I do differently? I don't want big bookcases
> all over - or do I?

If I had that much space I would dedicate one room just for sleeping
dressers and bedroom stuff and perhaps stuffed animals and books.
Then the other room I would set up as the play space and make it fun
and functional and comfy, and most importantly easy for me to clean
up fast. I mean, bins and throw it in type clean up so that it is
easy for anyone. This way it is everyone's space, so no one person
feels like they have responsibility to do all the cleanup. Everyone
can help and everyone can use it and mess it up again.

Our house is really small so the whole house is one big toy bin.
Messy all the time! However, sometimes I do need to vaccuum, so I
ask for help to pick up the floor because I feel they should have a
say in where things get put away. Generally they are willing to
help, sometimes they are not and I do it myself. It is easier to do
it myself than try to get someone to help if they are unwilling.

If my youngest goes into my oldest dd's clean room and messes it up,
I will generally clean it up better than how it was to begin with.
It's only fair really as they have little control over the set up of
our living space. When we lived in a big house it really wasn't
that big of a deal for anyone because it was easier to live in the
space that was messy, yet still have the ability to walk through the
spaces without stepping on things. It was also easier to keep toy
areas seperate from spaces that one could relax in without clutter.
Projects could be left out and be untouched for a few days without
having the need of the space. It just isn't so where we live now,
so we all help a little to keep everyone happy.

Right now my oldest dd has set up a huge painting project that is
taking up the entire living room space. She has set it up in a way
where spills are addressed and her little sister can paint without
damaging the carpet. It's really cool that she was so nice to do
that even though she really just wanted to paint something for
herself. She knew her sister wouldn't stay out of her way so she
made it possible for her to paint as well. It is win/win for
everyone. I like to encourage this type of interaction between my
kids, so the best thing I can do to help is offer to do all the
cleanup when they are done. My oldest will probably clean her own
stuff and I will probably clean up my youngest and her mess. This
way my oldest can finish whenever she wants to and she doesn't have
to worry about helping her sister finish up.

wifetovegman2002

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> If you give someone access to lots of good food and he trusts that
> that source isn't about to be taken away, he will only eat what he
> really wants or needs.
>


And sometimes what they really want is a lot of food!

My own goal was to get past the point where we just tolerate our
children's choices and started to actually respect and anticipate
them, getting to the point where we even looked for ways to fulfill
them because we know it makes them happy.

Sometimes what my child wants is to watch a lot of tv. Sometimes he
wants to play a video game for 3 days barely stopping to sleep and
eat. Sometimes one of my children wants two big bacon classic burgers
with everything on them, instead of just one.

I had to turn off that little voice in my head that said, "But on the
unschooling lists they said they wouldn't watch tv for hours a day
after a while if we removed the limits."

If we're confident we have engaged them and they are happy and free
and are making these choices because it brings them joy, then we
should trust that it really is what they want or need right now. We
need to trust that when it is Enough *for them*, then they will stop.

Their Enough may be different from where ours is.

~Susan

Have a Nice Day!

Good point, and something I had to come to understand too.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: wifetovegman2002
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: "trying" vs. doing


--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> If you give someone access to lots of good food and he trusts that
> that source isn't about to be taken away, he will only eat what he
> really wants or needs.
>


And sometimes what they really want is a lot of food!

My own goal was to get past the point where we just tolerate our
children's choices and started to actually respect and anticipate
them, getting to the point where we even looked for ways to fulfill
them because we know it makes them happy.

Sometimes what my child wants is to watch a lot of tv. Sometimes he
wants to play a video game for 3 days barely stopping to sleep and
eat. Sometimes one of my children wants two big bacon classic burgers
with everything on them, instead of just one.

I had to turn off that little voice in my head that said, "But on the
unschooling lists they said they wouldn't watch tv for hours a day
after a while if we removed the limits."

If we're confident we have engaged them and they are happy and free
and are making these choices because it brings them joy, then we
should trust that it really is what they want or need right now. We
need to trust that when it is Enough *for them*, then they will stop.

Their Enough may be different from where ours is.

~Susan






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