Writing signatures
Sally Brooks
The discussion about the 8yo signing his name brought up a recent event
in our family. Last June, my 15yo dd past her driver's test (on the
first try!) and was told when she signed the legal document that she
had to resign and write in cursive. She was so nervous about the whole
situation that she almost told them to shove it! Instead, she signed
and went on. At that time, it got me to thinking about times in our
lives when folks are going to want a SIGNATURE, pretty or not.
Eventually, your son will have to develop some form of identity, just
like my dd, just like Kirby.
in our family. Last June, my 15yo dd past her driver's test (on the
first try!) and was told when she signed the legal document that she
had to resign and write in cursive. She was so nervous about the whole
situation that she almost told them to shove it! Instead, she signed
and went on. At that time, it got me to thinking about times in our
lives when folks are going to want a SIGNATURE, pretty or not.
Eventually, your son will have to develop some form of identity, just
like my dd, just like Kirby.
jenstarc4
--- In [email protected], "Sally Brooks"
<brooksclan4@...> wrote:
resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
have said anything! I don't sign my name in cursive or print, but
something totally different that I established when I had decided to
be an artist and had to sign my work artistically in whatever media I
was using. I kept doing it enough where it became easier and easier
to write quickly enough to be a signature.
Who says that a legal signature has to be in cursive?! The idea is
just so absurd to me! Your daughter showed great constraint!
<brooksclan4@...> wrote:
>event
> The discussion about the 8yo signing his name brought up a recent
> in our family. Last June, my 15yo dd past her driver's test (on thewhole
> first try!) and was told when she signed the legal document that she
> had to resign and write in cursive. She was so nervous about the
> situation that she almost told them to shove it! Instead, shesigned
> and went on. At that time, it got me to thinking about times in ourjust
> lives when folks are going to want a SIGNATURE, pretty or not.
> Eventually, your son will have to develop some form of identity,
> like my dd, just like Kirby.That seems awfully bossy for a DMV person to insist that someone
>
resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
have said anything! I don't sign my name in cursive or print, but
something totally different that I established when I had decided to
be an artist and had to sign my work artistically in whatever media I
was using. I kept doing it enough where it became easier and easier
to write quickly enough to be a signature.
Who says that a legal signature has to be in cursive?! The idea is
just so absurd to me! Your daughter showed great constraint!
vicki a. dennis
It is perfectly legal in most instances (Homeland Insecurity may have
created some exceptions) for a person to simply make "their mark" on
official documents. That said, I have seen these individual power trip
demands about "signature=cursive". Even with adults .....e.g. new
tellers at a bank wanting the signature on a check to be two names written
in pretty cursive. Where I come from I would wager that the majority of
adult "signatures" are NOT in cursive.
A few years ago I tangled with the director of a large umbrella soccer
association who was holding a meeting with club registrars and was insisting
that the player ID cards required a players signature ("and that means
cursive"). Her view was that player cards were usually for children at
least 9 years old and they "should" know cursive by then. "Just tell
them they have to put both names and in cursive". I argued with her
about BOTH "her" requirements for a signature and suggested it was
inappropriate for her to be dispensing such erroneous information. It's
how urban myths get started. Bear in mind she wanted kids to be "signing"
names that might be completely different from the names they used in day to
day life. Made me think of 80 years ago and schoolteachers who decided
what names were "proper" regardless of what might be on the birth
certificate!
Using a "legal" name these days for official documents (in the spaces
where they say "type or print legibly") is one thing. The whole point of a
"signature" is to be unique to the person. In my years I have seen a
variety of signatures that bore little to no resemblance to the the full
legal name written in any of the standard cursive styles. Time was, the
recommendation was to avoid the "schoolteacher hand" for a signature so
that it would be more difficult to forge. Times change.
vicki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jenstarc4
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Writing signatures
That seems awfully bossy for a DMV person to insist that someone
resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
created some exceptions) for a person to simply make "their mark" on
official documents. That said, I have seen these individual power trip
demands about "signature=cursive". Even with adults .....e.g. new
tellers at a bank wanting the signature on a check to be two names written
in pretty cursive. Where I come from I would wager that the majority of
adult "signatures" are NOT in cursive.
A few years ago I tangled with the director of a large umbrella soccer
association who was holding a meeting with club registrars and was insisting
that the player ID cards required a players signature ("and that means
cursive"). Her view was that player cards were usually for children at
least 9 years old and they "should" know cursive by then. "Just tell
them they have to put both names and in cursive". I argued with her
about BOTH "her" requirements for a signature and suggested it was
inappropriate for her to be dispensing such erroneous information. It's
how urban myths get started. Bear in mind she wanted kids to be "signing"
names that might be completely different from the names they used in day to
day life. Made me think of 80 years ago and schoolteachers who decided
what names were "proper" regardless of what might be on the birth
certificate!
Using a "legal" name these days for official documents (in the spaces
where they say "type or print legibly") is one thing. The whole point of a
"signature" is to be unique to the person. In my years I have seen a
variety of signatures that bore little to no resemblance to the the full
legal name written in any of the standard cursive styles. Time was, the
recommendation was to avoid the "schoolteacher hand" for a signature so
that it would be more difficult to forge. Times change.
vicki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jenstarc4
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Writing signatures
That seems awfully bossy for a DMV person to insist that someone
resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Mar 3, 2006, at 2:06 PM, jenstarc4 wrote:
When they say "sign" your name, that comes from a thousand years ago,
and a few centuries on either side, when people made an x... only it
wasn't an X, it was the sign of the cross. It was a cross, made as
an oath that you attested to what the document said in the name of
God. So "signature" is like a legally binding oath to stand by,
abide by, the words in that document. When you "gave your word" you
were giving your word to and by God.
When people are quadraplegic or otherwise unable to sign, they "sign"
in front of a witness by putting a mark if they can or touching the
thing (I think that probably varies from state to county too, because
there is not as far as I know any federal ruling on it, unless it
has to do with tax returns). My friend Mary Ann who's quadraplegic
signed checks with an X. Now I guess she just uses paypal and debit
cards.
Sandra
> -=-That seems awfully bossy for a DMV person to insist that someoneI think the legal precedents are probably very varied!!
> resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
> have said anything! I don't sign my name in cursive or print, but
> something totally different that I established when I had decided to
> be an artist and had to sign my work artistically in whatever media I
> was using. I kept doing it enough where it became easier and easier
> to write quickly enough to be a signature.
>
> -=-Who says that a legal signature has to be in cursive?! The idea is
> just so absurd to me! Your daughter showed great constraint!-=-
When they say "sign" your name, that comes from a thousand years ago,
and a few centuries on either side, when people made an x... only it
wasn't an X, it was the sign of the cross. It was a cross, made as
an oath that you attested to what the document said in the name of
God. So "signature" is like a legally binding oath to stand by,
abide by, the words in that document. When you "gave your word" you
were giving your word to and by God.
When people are quadraplegic or otherwise unable to sign, they "sign"
in front of a witness by putting a mark if they can or touching the
thing (I think that probably varies from state to county too, because
there is not as far as I know any federal ruling on it, unless it
has to do with tax returns). My friend Mary Ann who's quadraplegic
signed checks with an X. Now I guess she just uses paypal and debit
cards.
Sandra
Cally Brown
Thanks for reminding me. My ds is soon to sit his test for his next
level of driving license (here in NZ they have to sit 3 tests over a
period of time) and the first time he was upset by not having a
signature too. So I meant to remind him to start practicing well
beforehand so it flows easily.
Cally
Sally Brooks wrote:
level of driving license (here in NZ they have to sit 3 tests over a
period of time) and the first time he was upset by not having a
signature too. So I meant to remind him to start practicing well
beforehand so it flows easily.
Cally
Sally Brooks wrote:
>Last June, my 15yo dd past her driver's test (on the
>first try!) and was told when she signed the legal document that she
>had to resign and write in cursive. She was so nervous about the whole
>situation that she almost told them to shove it! Instead, she signed
>and went on.
>
katherand2003
I still have a horrible time making legible handwriting. I developed
a signature composed of cursived print or printed cursive. In your
daughter's case I may have been tempted to sign in printed curses.. ;)
Nah not really. My signature is print letters and, depending on the
order and where the letters join, they may be capital or lower case.
I can't remember exactly when but I was about 25 or maybe older when I
got it figured out to my satisfaction. One thing about having a
signature like that is I occasionally get prior warning when a
beauricrat is going to be difficult.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], "jenstarc4"
<jenstarc4@...> wrote:
a signature composed of cursived print or printed cursive. In your
daughter's case I may have been tempted to sign in printed curses.. ;)
Nah not really. My signature is print letters and, depending on the
order and where the letters join, they may be capital or lower case.
I can't remember exactly when but I was about 25 or maybe older when I
got it figured out to my satisfaction. One thing about having a
signature like that is I occasionally get prior warning when a
beauricrat is going to be difficult.
Kathe
--- In [email protected], "jenstarc4"
<jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Sally Brooks"
> <brooksclan4@> wrote:
> >
> > The discussion about the 8yo signing his name brought up a recent
> event
> > in our family. Last June, my 15yo dd past her driver's test (on the
> > first try!) and was told when she signed the legal document that she
> > had to resign and write in cursive. She was so nervous about the
> whole
> > situation that she almost told them to shove it! Instead, she
> signed
> > and went on. At that time, it got me to thinking about times in our
> > lives when folks are going to want a SIGNATURE, pretty or not.
> > Eventually, your son will have to develop some form of identity,
> just
> > like my dd, just like Kirby.
> >
>
> That seems awfully bossy for a DMV person to insist that someone
> resign in cursive. I'll bet if it had been an adult they wouldn't
> have said anything! I don't sign my name in cursive or print, but
> something totally different that I established when I had decided to
> be an artist and had to sign my work artistically in whatever media I
> was using. I kept doing it enough where it became easier and easier
> to write quickly enough to be a signature.
>
> Who says that a legal signature has to be in cursive?! The idea is
> just so absurd to me! Your daughter showed great constraint!
>