baffled II
kazitetalibuse
Here is another question on my mind.
If my child wants something that my husband and I truly feel that we
cannot afford (after much thinking and talking about it together)--
such as an expensive class and time commitment to drive her to a
certain class two times a week plus waiting time of several hours --
is it against the principles of unschooling to make this decision
without her and for her?
I mean, we have already made the decision that it will not work for us
financially or timewise. We would certainly try to explain and show
her our thinking process, our financial situation, our priorities as
to what fits into our schedule and what doesn't. We sympathize with
her wish and we have always made all efforts to fulfill her wishes.
She has attended a wide variety of classes over the years. We usually
give her the choice of what we can handle (financilly and timewise) so
that she can prioritize her interests in different classes and choose
the ones she prefers. This time though we feel that this particular
class is beyond our means and abilities to manage other time commitments.
I am looking for advice on how to handle the fact that we cannot
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense.
I am pretty good with brainstorming and looking at many different
options. I take my time and ask for advice. I visualize different
possibilites and sit with them. I talk with my husband and kids,
friends, and I look for new ideas constantly. I am not afraid to
change my desisions if things are not working well.
This time I am, right or wrong, sure that we cannot afford this class
without negative results to our finances and enjoyment of life due to
a time crunch. Is it against unschooling principles to look at my
life, decide that I cannot afford this class, and make this decision
for myself and therefore for my daughter?
If out of fear to upset her or disappoint her, I disregard my best (at
the moment) judgment and go ahead with the class, I would most likely
end up feeling resentful of the financial situation this would put us
in and the stress it would put on us due to the time crunch it would
result in. I wish it would not be so. The reality is that I would most
likely feel resentment. I am not the most "together" adult. I am
learning to handle difficult emotions better and to see my children's
feelings and wishes just as important as mine. I am learning to see
them as individuals worthy of respect. But it does not come to me
naturally. I know that in this situation I would feel resentment and
have a hard time hiding it. she would feel guilty for creating this
situation no matter how hard I would try to reassure her that it's not
her fault, that I am just working on some difficult emotions and that
it is my job, not hers, to deal with my feelings.
I am learning a lot here. Thank you for letting me ask questions here.
Renata
If my child wants something that my husband and I truly feel that we
cannot afford (after much thinking and talking about it together)--
such as an expensive class and time commitment to drive her to a
certain class two times a week plus waiting time of several hours --
is it against the principles of unschooling to make this decision
without her and for her?
I mean, we have already made the decision that it will not work for us
financially or timewise. We would certainly try to explain and show
her our thinking process, our financial situation, our priorities as
to what fits into our schedule and what doesn't. We sympathize with
her wish and we have always made all efforts to fulfill her wishes.
She has attended a wide variety of classes over the years. We usually
give her the choice of what we can handle (financilly and timewise) so
that she can prioritize her interests in different classes and choose
the ones she prefers. This time though we feel that this particular
class is beyond our means and abilities to manage other time commitments.
I am looking for advice on how to handle the fact that we cannot
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense.
I am pretty good with brainstorming and looking at many different
options. I take my time and ask for advice. I visualize different
possibilites and sit with them. I talk with my husband and kids,
friends, and I look for new ideas constantly. I am not afraid to
change my desisions if things are not working well.
This time I am, right or wrong, sure that we cannot afford this class
without negative results to our finances and enjoyment of life due to
a time crunch. Is it against unschooling principles to look at my
life, decide that I cannot afford this class, and make this decision
for myself and therefore for my daughter?
If out of fear to upset her or disappoint her, I disregard my best (at
the moment) judgment and go ahead with the class, I would most likely
end up feeling resentful of the financial situation this would put us
in and the stress it would put on us due to the time crunch it would
result in. I wish it would not be so. The reality is that I would most
likely feel resentment. I am not the most "together" adult. I am
learning to handle difficult emotions better and to see my children's
feelings and wishes just as important as mine. I am learning to see
them as individuals worthy of respect. But it does not come to me
naturally. I know that in this situation I would feel resentment and
have a hard time hiding it. she would feel guilty for creating this
situation no matter how hard I would try to reassure her that it's not
her fault, that I am just working on some difficult emotions and that
it is my job, not hers, to deal with my feelings.
I am learning a lot here. Thank you for letting me ask questions here.
Renata
Angela S.
<<If my child wants something that my husband and I truly feel that we
cannot afford (after much thinking and talking about it together)--
such as an expensive class and time commitment to drive her to a
certain class two times a week plus waiting time of several hours --
is it against the principles of unschooling to make this decision
without her and for her?>>
Maybe if you post the specifics of the class there is another option you
haven't considered. Could she go the class and offer to be of assistance to
the teacher in order to learn about the subject? Could she go to one class
and see if someone lives nearby that could offer her a ride? Sometimes it
can be difficult to reach out and ask for help or to ask for something
different than the norm, but I've found it is worth it.
A couple years ago I was pretty certain we could not afford a horse. Plus I
also felt I didn't know enough about them to care for them properly. I went
outside my comfort zone and asked the girls riding instructor if she'd
barter board for my help around the place and she willingly agreed. Not
only did it make it much ore affordable but I learned more about horses than
I ever could have without the direct experience helping out at the farm.
Nine months after getting the first horse we realized how much joy horses
brought to our lives and we found a way to add a second horse to our family
by selling items we no longer used much and by keeping our older vehicles
when they were paid off.
I would urge you to brain storm even more ideas and find a way to make it
work for your daughter if at all possible.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
cannot afford (after much thinking and talking about it together)--
such as an expensive class and time commitment to drive her to a
certain class two times a week plus waiting time of several hours --
is it against the principles of unschooling to make this decision
without her and for her?>>
Maybe if you post the specifics of the class there is another option you
haven't considered. Could she go the class and offer to be of assistance to
the teacher in order to learn about the subject? Could she go to one class
and see if someone lives nearby that could offer her a ride? Sometimes it
can be difficult to reach out and ask for help or to ask for something
different than the norm, but I've found it is worth it.
A couple years ago I was pretty certain we could not afford a horse. Plus I
also felt I didn't know enough about them to care for them properly. I went
outside my comfort zone and asked the girls riding instructor if she'd
barter board for my help around the place and she willingly agreed. Not
only did it make it much ore affordable but I learned more about horses than
I ever could have without the direct experience helping out at the farm.
Nine months after getting the first horse we realized how much joy horses
brought to our lives and we found a way to add a second horse to our family
by selling items we no longer used much and by keeping our older vehicles
when they were paid off.
I would urge you to brain storm even more ideas and find a way to make it
work for your daughter if at all possible.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:26 AM, kazitetalibuse wrote:
schooling but there are respectful and less respectful ways of
handling it.
I'm assuming this is a class your daughter already is interested in?
What if there were a class you were interested in and your husband
thought it through on his own and came back with the decision you
couldn't take it?
Your approach of making a decision and then figuring out how to tell
your daughter is turning your daughter into the problem. You could go
through the money issue with her. Perhaps she might come up with a
creative solution. You could talk about the time commitment. You
could research other options for classes with her.
Approach it more as "Here's the problems that I have with it that I
can't find a way around," rather than "Here's why it won't work and I
need to convince you."
The more she trusts that you're on her side trying to help her get
what she wants, the easier it will be for her to accept when there
are times when she won't be able to have everything. If she trusts
you, you might not need to go through the money issue as you might
not need your husband to spell it all out for you.
If I were a kid and my mom told me she was trying to be a better mom
and wanted to ask some advice on better ways to handle something I'd
want to help her out by saying yes :-)
But if I knew my mothere was trying to rally the troops to support
her position against me, I wouldn't much like it!
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I mean, we have already made the decision that it will not work for usThere isn't an unschooling answer to this since it isn't about not
> financially or timewise.
schooling but there are respectful and less respectful ways of
handling it.
I'm assuming this is a class your daughter already is interested in?
What if there were a class you were interested in and your husband
thought it through on his own and came back with the decision you
couldn't take it?
Your approach of making a decision and then figuring out how to tell
your daughter is turning your daughter into the problem. You could go
through the money issue with her. Perhaps she might come up with a
creative solution. You could talk about the time commitment. You
could research other options for classes with her.
Approach it more as "Here's the problems that I have with it that I
can't find a way around," rather than "Here's why it won't work and I
need to convince you."
The more she trusts that you're on her side trying to help her get
what she wants, the easier it will be for her to accept when there
are times when she won't be able to have everything. If she trusts
you, you might not need to go through the money issue as you might
not need your husband to spell it all out for you.
> Does this extend to parenting? Should I get my daughter's permissionIt doesn't hurt to ask her! Are you afraid she might tell you no? ;-)
> before I write about her on message boards?
If I were a kid and my mom told me she was trying to be a better mom
and wanted to ask some advice on better ways to handle something I'd
want to help her out by saying yes :-)
But if I knew my mothere was trying to rally the troops to support
her position against me, I wouldn't much like it!
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 25, 2006, at 6:26 AM, kazitetalibuse wrote:
the logic, sometimes it helps to make two extreme examples instead.
If she wanted to go to the convenience store that's walking distance
from you, or if she wanted to go to Africa. NOW ask yourself whether
it fits your unschooling principles to say no.
People can't say yes to everything. Some families seem to find
virtue in saying NO, even at times when Yes would've been five ways
better.
-=-I am looking for advice on how to handle the fact that we cannot
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense. -=-
It makes sense in English, but it's not a reasonable thing to ask on
this list, because though you might really get some good advice on
how to handle your assertion and decision that you can't afford it
("facts" don't come from declarations), the discussions here are not
supposed to be for the benefit or in the direction of single
individuals, but out on the table for the benefit of anyone who reads
it, now or in a year or two.
A family moving toward a more generous and respectful relationship
with children sometimes goes too far. If a family once decided
simply by what was convenient for the parents, they might feel guilty
and give the kids their way ALL the time, kind of in penance.
If each decision is made with regard to everyone involved, though,
and the kids know that's they way decisions are being made, they'll
understand. If they can't tell yet how you're deciding and it seems
arbitrary they will likely ask for more, just to get less. That "ask
for twice as much as you really want" negotiating tool doesn't happen
at our house, but I've seen it in effect in many others.
Sandra
> I mean, we have already made the decision that it will not work for usWhen you're looking at two similar things and trying to figure out
> financially or timewise. We would certainly try to explain and show
> her our thinking process, our financial situation, our priorities as
> to what fits into our schedule and what doesn't.
the logic, sometimes it helps to make two extreme examples instead.
If she wanted to go to the convenience store that's walking distance
from you, or if she wanted to go to Africa. NOW ask yourself whether
it fits your unschooling principles to say no.
People can't say yes to everything. Some families seem to find
virtue in saying NO, even at times when Yes would've been five ways
better.
-=-I am looking for advice on how to handle the fact that we cannot
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense. -=-
It makes sense in English, but it's not a reasonable thing to ask on
this list, because though you might really get some good advice on
how to handle your assertion and decision that you can't afford it
("facts" don't come from declarations), the discussions here are not
supposed to be for the benefit or in the direction of single
individuals, but out on the table for the benefit of anyone who reads
it, now or in a year or two.
A family moving toward a more generous and respectful relationship
with children sometimes goes too far. If a family once decided
simply by what was convenient for the parents, they might feel guilty
and give the kids their way ALL the time, kind of in penance.
If each decision is made with regard to everyone involved, though,
and the kids know that's they way decisions are being made, they'll
understand. If they can't tell yet how you're deciding and it seems
arbitrary they will likely ask for more, just to get less. That "ask
for twice as much as you really want" negotiating tool doesn't happen
at our house, but I've seen it in effect in many others.
Sandra
Betsy Hill
**I am looking for advice on how to handle the fact that we cannot
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense.**
I think the list will probably offer up both kinds of suggestions. I
believe it is worthwhile to consider the whole range of approaches.
Some might not comfortably fit your style or circumstances. Some may be
worth stretching for. But even the ideas that are just wrong for you
are likely to be *right for someone else* dealing with a similar
situation. So it's worth looking at a whole range of ways to tackle a
problem, as the challenge you are dealing with does occur for many
unschooling families.
I was talking to a friend who takes her older child to a long gymnastics
lesson that's more than a thirty minute drive from her house. My
impression is that this wasn't much fun for her when the younger child
had to come as well. But once they were able to set their lives up with
dad working at home and the younger child able to be at home, it was fun
for the mom to go to a cafe with her laptop during the lesson.
Naturally, not everyone has totally flexibility with work and childcare
arrangements and probably most of us don't have laptops. (I don't.)
But looking for ways to enjoy being where we are is always beneficial.
Probably there were many other ways to make the class time fun for the
rest of the family, especially if the older child didn't need a parent
to stay. But I'm offering this as just one example of juggling things
around to make the hanging around time more enjoyable.
I also think carpooling is a great approach for classes that would be
tiresome for a parent to wait through.
Betsy
afford it at the moment, not advice on how to figure out a way to
afford it or how to manage our time better, if this makes sense.**
I think the list will probably offer up both kinds of suggestions. I
believe it is worthwhile to consider the whole range of approaches.
Some might not comfortably fit your style or circumstances. Some may be
worth stretching for. But even the ideas that are just wrong for you
are likely to be *right for someone else* dealing with a similar
situation. So it's worth looking at a whole range of ways to tackle a
problem, as the challenge you are dealing with does occur for many
unschooling families.
I was talking to a friend who takes her older child to a long gymnastics
lesson that's more than a thirty minute drive from her house. My
impression is that this wasn't much fun for her when the younger child
had to come as well. But once they were able to set their lives up with
dad working at home and the younger child able to be at home, it was fun
for the mom to go to a cafe with her laptop during the lesson.
Naturally, not everyone has totally flexibility with work and childcare
arrangements and probably most of us don't have laptops. (I don't.)
But looking for ways to enjoy being where we are is always beneficial.
Probably there were many other ways to make the class time fun for the
rest of the family, especially if the older child didn't need a parent
to stay. But I'm offering this as just one example of juggling things
around to make the hanging around time more enjoyable.
I also think carpooling is a great approach for classes that would be
tiresome for a parent to wait through.
Betsy