Experimental baking (Re Introing)
Name Location get it?
Hello Everyone,
I am a single mother in CA my dd is 9. She has never been to school or
schooled except for a few disasterous months early in our introduction
to hs that quickly taught me that was not for us. ;>
Later I started paying more attention when hearing people talk about
unschooling and decided that fit how we were living. I joined this
list long ago but have only been lurking again recently trying to
decide if I am ready to re enter the discussion.
So we are at a new cross road. She is starting to want to do things
with no supervision that she is not capable of mastering. Previously
the things she pushed me to do that I wasn't sure she was ready for
she accomplished nicely.
The former continues to prove itself frustrating for the both of us
but I don't know how to support her without having her think I just
want to control things and situations.
It's like she is out ahead of herself just a little and can't get back
into sync. And I am on the outside looking in.
Anyone else have fiercly independant children that resist oversight?
I guess here would be a good place for an example story huh?
About a month ago she demanded she be allowed to bake cookies for some
new neighbors in our cul de sac. I really didn't feel like stopping
everything I was doing at that moment to bake cookies plus baking
resources were low and there are other issues like we live with my
parents so it's not my kitchen...lol sigh
So I pointed her to cook books, and told her we had no butter. She
finds a recipe that did not require butter and set everything up.
Apple Raisin Oatmeal Cookies
I told her to pre cook the apple chunks rather than just adding them
to the batter for a bit of a different taste and feel of them in the
finished product and was free to come and survey by the time she told
me they were finished and she was almost done with the rest of the batter.
Now I have baked a lot in our life time but she has mostly helped or
watched until now. So I told her to keep things simple and follow the
recipe/instructions.
Glancing at the apples which were covered in brown sugar and cinnamon
so I couldn't see clearly what shape they were in. It became apparent
that they were not soft and tender...what's more they were chopped
nicely but they were not peeled! lol
When I mentioned that to her she was shocked. She hadn't read that
part and hadn't realized that it's what I always do when chopping
apples for oatmeal and other things we add them to for baking.
Ok so we start a new batch of apples and I tell her how to test and
make sure they are soft.
All in all it was a decent experience the cookies came out lovely and
she had a good time she was in control and all I did was help with the
apples.
A few weeks later she wants to make cookies again. But this time she
wants to wing her own version of chocolate cookies. Again I mention
this is not my kitchen and I'll add my mother is extremely neat and
tidy where I am more relaxed. So the pressure is on to put her kitchen
back the way she likes it in a very timely manner and we are talking
chocolate here eke!
Again I am not totally in a baking mood so this is my dd's idea and I
am sort of just along for the ride. She wants none of referencing her
idea for a cookie recipe with an already established one and I want
none of her experiementing in my mothers kitchen.
We agree she will write out her recipe for starters. She brings me a
recipe for sugar cookies and gets mad when I ask her to please proof
read it.
But she quickly realizes her error and gets busy setting things up in
the kitchen. I paralleled her recipe with one from a book I have and
made some changes to the levening amount which she resented.
I also measured the powdered chocolate again simply for the sake of my
mothers kitchen and easy clean up.
But an only slightly mussed kitchen and perfectly yummy cake like
cookies later my dd quips "I didn't need your help you just want to be
involved in everything and can't leave me alone."
Further grumbling about having to do the clean up dishes!
Tosca & Lenelle (9)
I am a single mother in CA my dd is 9. She has never been to school or
schooled except for a few disasterous months early in our introduction
to hs that quickly taught me that was not for us. ;>
Later I started paying more attention when hearing people talk about
unschooling and decided that fit how we were living. I joined this
list long ago but have only been lurking again recently trying to
decide if I am ready to re enter the discussion.
So we are at a new cross road. She is starting to want to do things
with no supervision that she is not capable of mastering. Previously
the things she pushed me to do that I wasn't sure she was ready for
she accomplished nicely.
The former continues to prove itself frustrating for the both of us
but I don't know how to support her without having her think I just
want to control things and situations.
It's like she is out ahead of herself just a little and can't get back
into sync. And I am on the outside looking in.
Anyone else have fiercly independant children that resist oversight?
I guess here would be a good place for an example story huh?
About a month ago she demanded she be allowed to bake cookies for some
new neighbors in our cul de sac. I really didn't feel like stopping
everything I was doing at that moment to bake cookies plus baking
resources were low and there are other issues like we live with my
parents so it's not my kitchen...lol sigh
So I pointed her to cook books, and told her we had no butter. She
finds a recipe that did not require butter and set everything up.
Apple Raisin Oatmeal Cookies
I told her to pre cook the apple chunks rather than just adding them
to the batter for a bit of a different taste and feel of them in the
finished product and was free to come and survey by the time she told
me they were finished and she was almost done with the rest of the batter.
Now I have baked a lot in our life time but she has mostly helped or
watched until now. So I told her to keep things simple and follow the
recipe/instructions.
Glancing at the apples which were covered in brown sugar and cinnamon
so I couldn't see clearly what shape they were in. It became apparent
that they were not soft and tender...what's more they were chopped
nicely but they were not peeled! lol
When I mentioned that to her she was shocked. She hadn't read that
part and hadn't realized that it's what I always do when chopping
apples for oatmeal and other things we add them to for baking.
Ok so we start a new batch of apples and I tell her how to test and
make sure they are soft.
All in all it was a decent experience the cookies came out lovely and
she had a good time she was in control and all I did was help with the
apples.
A few weeks later she wants to make cookies again. But this time she
wants to wing her own version of chocolate cookies. Again I mention
this is not my kitchen and I'll add my mother is extremely neat and
tidy where I am more relaxed. So the pressure is on to put her kitchen
back the way she likes it in a very timely manner and we are talking
chocolate here eke!
Again I am not totally in a baking mood so this is my dd's idea and I
am sort of just along for the ride. She wants none of referencing her
idea for a cookie recipe with an already established one and I want
none of her experiementing in my mothers kitchen.
We agree she will write out her recipe for starters. She brings me a
recipe for sugar cookies and gets mad when I ask her to please proof
read it.
But she quickly realizes her error and gets busy setting things up in
the kitchen. I paralleled her recipe with one from a book I have and
made some changes to the levening amount which she resented.
I also measured the powdered chocolate again simply for the sake of my
mothers kitchen and easy clean up.
But an only slightly mussed kitchen and perfectly yummy cake like
cookies later my dd quips "I didn't need your help you just want to be
involved in everything and can't leave me alone."
Further grumbling about having to do the clean up dishes!
Tosca & Lenelle (9)
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Name Location get it? wrote:
If it was spelling or something, I would've been cranky too. She
wanted to cook.
-=-I paralleled her recipe with one from a book I have and
made some changes to the levening amount which she resented.-=-
Could you have just explained to her what you think would have
happened if she had used the amount she started with, and still let
her decide?
It seems maybe you could compromise some on the baking. If she wants
to and you don't, what else are you doing that's so much more
important? Because it seems that in both of the examples you said
no, but then helped anyway. What if you had said "Yes, as soon as I
finish this..." or "Yes, okay"?
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/yes
Joyce has written beautifully on ways to say yes.
Sandra
> We agree she will write out her recipe for starters. She brings me aWas it an error in the recipe?
> recipe for sugar cookies and gets mad when I ask her to please proof
> read it.
If it was spelling or something, I would've been cranky too. She
wanted to cook.
-=-I paralleled her recipe with one from a book I have and
made some changes to the levening amount which she resented.-=-
Could you have just explained to her what you think would have
happened if she had used the amount she started with, and still let
her decide?
It seems maybe you could compromise some on the baking. If she wants
to and you don't, what else are you doing that's so much more
important? Because it seems that in both of the examples you said
no, but then helped anyway. What if you had said "Yes, as soon as I
finish this..." or "Yes, okay"?
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/yes
Joyce has written beautifully on ways to say yes.
Sandra
jimpetersonl
Why don't you let her make cookies with too much leavening?
Large White Eggs Grade A 18 ct $1.69
Margarine Great for Baking 4 ct $0.69
Land O Lakes Light Butter
- Salted 4 Sticks 16 oz $3.95
McCormick / Schilling Imitation
Vanilla Extract Premium Quality
2 fl oz $2.99
McCormick / Schilling Pure Vanilla Extract
2 fl oz $6.59
Clabber Girl Baking Powder 10 oz $1.25
Arm & Hammer Baking Soda 8 oz $0.39
Dixie Crystals Confectioners
Sugar 4x Powdered 16 oz $0.79
Dixie Crystals
Light Brown Sugar Zip Bag 16 oz $1.15
Dixie Crystals Extra Fine
Granulated Sugar 5 lb $2.49
King Arthur Flour
Never Bleached Never Bromated
5 lb $2.19
SubTotal: $24.17
Note: my total includes buying both vanilla (6.59) and immitation
vanilla (2.99), butter (3.95) and margarine (.69). If you went just
the good stuff, your total would be $20.49; if you went cheap (and I
went with name brands for most everything) you're looking at $13.63.
Say, "Look, the price for using grandma's kitchen is returning it to
her the way you found it. The price for ignoring a recipe (and using
too much leavening) is cookies that taste like baking soda."
Then get out of the way.
$10-20 is a small price for what you can learn in a kitchen.
~Sue
0W0339
Large White Eggs Grade A 18 ct $1.69
Margarine Great for Baking 4 ct $0.69
Land O Lakes Light Butter
- Salted 4 Sticks 16 oz $3.95
McCormick / Schilling Imitation
Vanilla Extract Premium Quality
2 fl oz $2.99
McCormick / Schilling Pure Vanilla Extract
2 fl oz $6.59
Clabber Girl Baking Powder 10 oz $1.25
Arm & Hammer Baking Soda 8 oz $0.39
Dixie Crystals Confectioners
Sugar 4x Powdered 16 oz $0.79
Dixie Crystals
Light Brown Sugar Zip Bag 16 oz $1.15
Dixie Crystals Extra Fine
Granulated Sugar 5 lb $2.49
King Arthur Flour
Never Bleached Never Bromated
5 lb $2.19
SubTotal: $24.17
Note: my total includes buying both vanilla (6.59) and immitation
vanilla (2.99), butter (3.95) and margarine (.69). If you went just
the good stuff, your total would be $20.49; if you went cheap (and I
went with name brands for most everything) you're looking at $13.63.
Say, "Look, the price for using grandma's kitchen is returning it to
her the way you found it. The price for ignoring a recipe (and using
too much leavening) is cookies that taste like baking soda."
Then get out of the way.
$10-20 is a small price for what you can learn in a kitchen.
~Sue
0W0339
> But an only slightly mussed kitchen and perfectly yummy cake like
> cookies later my dd quips "I didn't need your help you just want to be
> involved in everything and can't leave me alone."
>
> Further grumbling about having to do the clean up dishes!
>
> Tosca & Lenelle (9)
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/15/2006 5:15:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
toscasac@... writes:
About a month ago she demanded she be allowed to bake cookies for some
new neighbors in our cul de sac. I really didn't feel like stopping
everything I was doing at that moment to bake cookies plus baking
resources were low and there are other issues like we live with my
parents so it's not my kitchen...lol sigh
At 9, my daughter was beginning to bake and it was before unschooling and I
was much more of a controlling parent than I (thank goodness) have learned
to be. If I had it to do over (now that she is 16 and quite a lovely baker)
is just make sure she knew how to turn the oven on and keep from burning
either herself or the kitchen down.
I'd let her bake to her heart's content and when she was done I would clean
up whatever mess there was. If she needed butter, I'd make sure she had it.
I'd eat those cookies no matter how they tasted and I bet next time they
would taste a bit better. If she wanted help or advice, I'd give it but other
than that I'd just make sure she had the time and ingredients to make as many
cookies as she wanted.
It's not very long from 9 to 16 and I'd give anything to have spent those
moments between ages 9 and 13 to give her the freedom to explore and make
cookies without my meddling about making sure it was done like I thought it should
be done.
We've cooked and baked a lot together but when she wanted to do it alone, I
should have let her. Luckily, we discovered unschooling and the last three
years have been the best.
A mess is easily cleaned up. A relationship with your daughter is not.
Just some thoughts from a mom with a daughter who today was talking about
colleges she might want to go to.
Gail (whose daughter bakes a mean apple pie from scratch..:-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
toscasac@... writes:
About a month ago she demanded she be allowed to bake cookies for some
new neighbors in our cul de sac. I really didn't feel like stopping
everything I was doing at that moment to bake cookies plus baking
resources were low and there are other issues like we live with my
parents so it's not my kitchen...lol sigh
At 9, my daughter was beginning to bake and it was before unschooling and I
was much more of a controlling parent than I (thank goodness) have learned
to be. If I had it to do over (now that she is 16 and quite a lovely baker)
is just make sure she knew how to turn the oven on and keep from burning
either herself or the kitchen down.
I'd let her bake to her heart's content and when she was done I would clean
up whatever mess there was. If she needed butter, I'd make sure she had it.
I'd eat those cookies no matter how they tasted and I bet next time they
would taste a bit better. If she wanted help or advice, I'd give it but other
than that I'd just make sure she had the time and ingredients to make as many
cookies as she wanted.
It's not very long from 9 to 16 and I'd give anything to have spent those
moments between ages 9 and 13 to give her the freedom to explore and make
cookies without my meddling about making sure it was done like I thought it should
be done.
We've cooked and baked a lot together but when she wanted to do it alone, I
should have let her. Luckily, we discovered unschooling and the last three
years have been the best.
A mess is easily cleaned up. A relationship with your daughter is not.
Just some thoughts from a mom with a daughter who today was talking about
colleges she might want to go to.
Gail (whose daughter bakes a mean apple pie from scratch..:-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 15, 2006, at 4:56 PM, gailbrocop@... wrote:
Not an experimental story, but:
I helped Kirby make two cakes from scratch. It was one cake, but he
wanted different colored layers. I coached and helped with prep, he
did the real work, I was rinsing and loading things into the
dishwasher as he went. Had I required that he clean up in exchange
for the privilege of making a cake, he might have felt overwhelmed
and unloved.
Learning to make a cake is as good and important and complex as
anything a kid could want to learn. I was glad to help him. He was
nineteen already. That's okay. There are adults who've never gone
past a pre-packaged cake mix. I was happy that Kirby wanted to work
from scratch. He had the interest and attention span to care about
things like using cocoa powder to flour the pans for the chocolate
layers, and flour for the spice-cake layers. Cool!
Sandra
>Huge and great point.
> A mess is easily cleaned up. A relationship with your daughter is
> not.
> Just some thoughts from a mom with a daughter who today was
> talking about
> colleges she might want to go to.
Not an experimental story, but:
I helped Kirby make two cakes from scratch. It was one cake, but he
wanted different colored layers. I coached and helped with prep, he
did the real work, I was rinsing and loading things into the
dishwasher as he went. Had I required that he clean up in exchange
for the privilege of making a cake, he might have felt overwhelmed
and unloved.
Learning to make a cake is as good and important and complex as
anything a kid could want to learn. I was glad to help him. He was
nineteen already. That's okay. There are adults who've never gone
past a pre-packaged cake mix. I was happy that Kirby wanted to work
from scratch. He had the interest and attention span to care about
things like using cocoa powder to flour the pans for the chocolate
layers, and flour for the spice-cake layers. Cool!
Sandra
nellebelle
I learned how to bake using mixes. Once, the brownies turned out like
pudding. But only once.
Although I like to bake from scratch, I buy mixes from time to time, to have
on hand.
It can be fun to compare too. Bake something from scratch and the same type
of thing from a mix and compare. It doesn't have to be schooly with charts
and exact figures. Just in general. Do they seem any different? Was there
a big cost difference or just a little? And it might be fun for her to have
her Gramma be one of the testers. See if Gramma can tell the scratch from
the mix.
Last year I accidently added too many chocolate chips to a homemade brownie
recipe. Those were the best brownies I ever ate!
Mary Ellen
pudding. But only once.
Although I like to bake from scratch, I buy mixes from time to time, to have
on hand.
It can be fun to compare too. Bake something from scratch and the same type
of thing from a mix and compare. It doesn't have to be schooly with charts
and exact figures. Just in general. Do they seem any different? Was there
a big cost difference or just a little? And it might be fun for her to have
her Gramma be one of the testers. See if Gramma can tell the scratch from
the mix.
Last year I accidently added too many chocolate chips to a homemade brownie
recipe. Those were the best brownies I ever ate!
Mary Ellen
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 15, 2006, at 5:13 PM, nellebelle wrote:
culture anywhere. <g>
One day years ago I meant to dump a layer of raisins in a bread
pudding I was making, and accidentally grabbed the very-similar bag
of chocolate chips. The dumping was done, and I thought... why
didn't I ever think of doing that on purpose!?
And years before that, pre-children, following on a conversation at
work about the potential magic of chocolate chips, I made corn bread
with chocolate chips. It's not something I ever made again, but
besides being interesting and edible, it was pretty. The chips faded
into the corn bread very nicely.
I'm not a brave cook, but there are two tales of... something. <g>
I like cake mixes, especially when they're on sale for $1 or so, and
all this conversation makes me want to go and set one up. When I'm
making a fancy cake for a birthday, I usually do something special
from scratch, but when it's just for a chocolate fix, a cake mix in a
bundt pan without any intention of frosting is plenty good for me.
Ice cream can make it fancy.
Sandra
> Last year I accidently added too many chocolate chips to a homemadeChocolate chips are one of the finest American contributions to
> brownie
> recipe. Those were the best brownies I ever ate!
culture anywhere. <g>
One day years ago I meant to dump a layer of raisins in a bread
pudding I was making, and accidentally grabbed the very-similar bag
of chocolate chips. The dumping was done, and I thought... why
didn't I ever think of doing that on purpose!?
And years before that, pre-children, following on a conversation at
work about the potential magic of chocolate chips, I made corn bread
with chocolate chips. It's not something I ever made again, but
besides being interesting and edible, it was pretty. The chips faded
into the corn bread very nicely.
I'm not a brave cook, but there are two tales of... something. <g>
I like cake mixes, especially when they're on sale for $1 or so, and
all this conversation makes me want to go and set one up. When I'm
making a fancy cake for a birthday, I usually do something special
from scratch, but when it's just for a chocolate fix, a cake mix in a
bundt pan without any intention of frosting is plenty good for me.
Ice cream can make it fancy.
Sandra
Julie
I eat choc chips straight out of the bag. :-)
Another tasty treat: Mix chocolate chips with pretzels and pop in mouth. I
tried this in a moment of desperation as I'm a vegan in a world of milk
chocolate covered pretzels. I think the semi-sweet morsels are even better!
Julie B.
Another tasty treat: Mix chocolate chips with pretzels and pop in mouth. I
tried this in a moment of desperation as I'm a vegan in a world of milk
chocolate covered pretzels. I think the semi-sweet morsels are even better!
Julie B.
Betsy Hill
** Last year I accidently added too many chocolate chips to a homemade
brownie
recipe. Those were the best brownies I ever ate!**
From what I hear, the classic (Tollhouse) chocolate chip cookie was
invented by accident. The baker wanted chocolate-flavored cookies and
hoped/expected the chips to melt into the batter. That's not the
outcome she got.
It amazes me that this didn't happen until the 1930s. We had cookies,
we had chocolate, but people seem to have been slow to experiment.
Betsy
brownie
recipe. Those were the best brownies I ever ate!**
From what I hear, the classic (Tollhouse) chocolate chip cookie was
invented by accident. The baker wanted chocolate-flavored cookies and
hoped/expected the chips to melt into the batter. That's not the
outcome she got.
It amazes me that this didn't happen until the 1930s. We had cookies,
we had chocolate, but people seem to have been slow to experiment.
Betsy
Kathleen and David Gehrke
WE love baking.... I do have a ten year old, who has
been baking for several years. She loves to make mixes
or scratch. Tonight my five year old wanted to bake a
cake. I was really feeling tired, especially tired of
the kitchen. Ashton was more than happy to help
Olivia. As I was reading your post I just checked the
girls cake for them. I asked if it was okay first.
Today I really had an "I Love Unschooling Day". I love
these days when it clicks and I know I am doing
exactly what we are supposed to be doing.
Ashton wrote a song on the computer. She used a
cursive font, so she could understand what cursive
looks like. Her plan.
Robby and Levi and DH built coffee tables for the boys
rooms. Their own design.
Jessy gamed and watched a movie.
Megan learned how to parallel park. She is taking her
driving test on Monday.
Tycen chopped wood with DH for the first time.
And Olivia scooped snow and put it in a pot and put it
on the woodstove. She added dishsoap and watched the
snow melt and stirred and watched the bubbles come up.
She announced that it was her imagination.. She meant
her invention, but I thought imagination was
beautiful!
That is not all they did, but it just seemed to be a
day off connections, of living a rich life. It was a
good day.
Kathleen
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
been baking for several years. She loves to make mixes
or scratch. Tonight my five year old wanted to bake a
cake. I was really feeling tired, especially tired of
the kitchen. Ashton was more than happy to help
Olivia. As I was reading your post I just checked the
girls cake for them. I asked if it was okay first.
Today I really had an "I Love Unschooling Day". I love
these days when it clicks and I know I am doing
exactly what we are supposed to be doing.
Ashton wrote a song on the computer. She used a
cursive font, so she could understand what cursive
looks like. Her plan.
Robby and Levi and DH built coffee tables for the boys
rooms. Their own design.
Jessy gamed and watched a movie.
Megan learned how to parallel park. She is taking her
driving test on Monday.
Tycen chopped wood with DH for the first time.
And Olivia scooped snow and put it in a pot and put it
on the woodstove. She added dishsoap and watched the
snow melt and stirred and watched the bubbles come up.
She announced that it was her imagination.. She meant
her invention, but I thought imagination was
beautiful!
That is not all they did, but it just seemed to be a
day off connections, of living a rich life. It was a
good day.
Kathleen
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Tessa G
Us, too! We also love to drop a bunch onto a spoon of fresh ground peanut butter, mmm.... My 16M old has a steady supply of chocolate chips available - he'll eat M&M's, but goes for the semisweet chips first if they are around! We'll have to get some pretzels soon!
Tess
Julie <julesmiel@...> wrote:
I eat choc chips straight out of the bag. :-)
Another tasty treat: Mix chocolate chips with pretzels and pop in mouth. I
tried this in a moment of desperation as I'm a vegan in a world of milk
chocolate covered pretzels. I think the semi-sweet morsels are even better!
Julie B.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tess
Julie <julesmiel@...> wrote:
I eat choc chips straight out of the bag. :-)
Another tasty treat: Mix chocolate chips with pretzels and pop in mouth. I
tried this in a moment of desperation as I'm a vegan in a world of milk
chocolate covered pretzels. I think the semi-sweet morsels are even better!
Julie B.
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Name Location get it?
Heyas,
@ errors the recipe read
Chocolate Cookies
The ingredient list: Flour, Sugar, Butter, Baking Soda, Salt, Vanilla,
Milk, Eggs ;>
I didn't get cranky I was just being practical.
Indeed I could have let her come to her own end about leavening but I
did explain to her why I was making the change and she totally
understood. I had been experimenting with pancake batter recipes and
leavening a few weeks before. And she'd been the taster hehehehe
What I really wanted was for her not to present to me that she wants
to wing anything in my mothers kitchen. I wanted her to parallel other
recipes and create her own or geez how about follow one of those
recipes what is the hurry to reinvent the wheel is my question?
And it's not that I want to control the process for that sake alone
it's that I want to mitigate the damages based on how she usually acts
in these circumstances. She is so busy trying to be right she misses
details that take away from the outcome then she feels bad, whines and
complains.
But she doesn't take good notes, learn from her mistakes and try to
change her behaviors she wants to just barrel on ahead to the next thing.
What I mean to convey by expressing that it was not my desire to bake
was simply that she demanded without regard for the fact that I was
doing something in the moment. And that due to her desire to be on her
own I was actually happy to be able to give her free reign in the
kitchen without me standing right there over all of it.
It was her desire to bake alone. And her pride to say so. She only
wanted my permission not my participation.
Which I would have had no problem with if she had presented a more
planned and well thought out process. She doesn't see how the first
batch of cookies she was able to bake alone because she was following
a recipe (and not using chocolate ;> ) and the latter recipe called on
more of my attentions because of her desire to wing it.
Yesterday...I totally said yes and she had the kitchen to herself.
But what she told me she was going to do and what she ended up doing
were not exactly the same which just irritates me.
lol sigh
Tosca & Lenelle (9)
@ errors the recipe read
Chocolate Cookies
The ingredient list: Flour, Sugar, Butter, Baking Soda, Salt, Vanilla,
Milk, Eggs ;>
I didn't get cranky I was just being practical.
Indeed I could have let her come to her own end about leavening but I
did explain to her why I was making the change and she totally
understood. I had been experimenting with pancake batter recipes and
leavening a few weeks before. And she'd been the taster hehehehe
What I really wanted was for her not to present to me that she wants
to wing anything in my mothers kitchen. I wanted her to parallel other
recipes and create her own or geez how about follow one of those
recipes what is the hurry to reinvent the wheel is my question?
And it's not that I want to control the process for that sake alone
it's that I want to mitigate the damages based on how she usually acts
in these circumstances. She is so busy trying to be right she misses
details that take away from the outcome then she feels bad, whines and
complains.
But she doesn't take good notes, learn from her mistakes and try to
change her behaviors she wants to just barrel on ahead to the next thing.
What I mean to convey by expressing that it was not my desire to bake
was simply that she demanded without regard for the fact that I was
doing something in the moment. And that due to her desire to be on her
own I was actually happy to be able to give her free reign in the
kitchen without me standing right there over all of it.
It was her desire to bake alone. And her pride to say so. She only
wanted my permission not my participation.
Which I would have had no problem with if she had presented a more
planned and well thought out process. She doesn't see how the first
batch of cookies she was able to bake alone because she was following
a recipe (and not using chocolate ;> ) and the latter recipe called on
more of my attentions because of her desire to wing it.
Yesterday...I totally said yes and she had the kitchen to herself.
But what she told me she was going to do and what she ended up doing
were not exactly the same which just irritates me.
lol sigh
Tosca & Lenelle (9)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 16, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Name Location get it? wrote:
the right/my way," and I suspect that want and desire comes through
to your daughter even if you don't use those words. So she's going to
*react* as though that's what you said to her.
It will help your relationship a lot if you see the two of you as
having very valid but opposing needs. What you want isn't to impose
your needs on her but to find a way to not step on each other's toes.
Setting up expectations of her doing or wanting what you think is
right is only going to frustrate you which you will pass onto your
daughter. Begin where she is and help her get where she wants.
I know you think that's what you're doing but what you're doing now
is helping her get to the one and only destination you think is
right. Rather than approaching the recipe from a "You need to know
how much," approach it from "Well, how much of each of these should
you use? If you get a cookbook you can get an idea of how much."
going down a chosen path. There's a big difference between saying
"It's pretty cold. I'm wearing my coat today," and "Put your coat on
because it's too cold to be without one." If they do choose no coat
we can take it with us -- and never say "I told you so."!
Be honest with her. Tell her you'll get in trouble with your mom if
the kitchen isn't as neat and tidy after the cookies as it is before.
Be her partner in what she wants to do rather than the enforcer of
rules as you see them. Help her be part of the solution rather being
the problem.
She is who she is. Fighting against that trying to get her to be
someone who is a deliberate thinking is just going to create a wall
between you. Understanding her will help enormously.
But there are ways to create a better relationship between you so
that she doesn't feel she needs to keep pulling and pushing to get
what she wants. If she's feeling like you're a barrier between where
she is and what she'd like to have, she's going to push at you. Walk
next to her.
When you have a relationship that doesn't feel to her as though you
were in opposition to each other, then that type of incident won't be
exacerbated by her need to push and pull. She may still be a do first
and fix later type of person but she'll feel like you're her partner
rather than her adversary.
and do as you would and she doesn't. She isn't going to change to be
like you. If you want this to stop irritating you, then you need to
change.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Blog of writing prompts for speculative fiction writers:
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogsome.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What I really wanted was for her not to present to me that she wantsThis reads like "She's thinking the wrong way and I need her to think
> to wing anything in my mothers kitchen.
the right/my way," and I suspect that want and desire comes through
to your daughter even if you don't use those words. So she's going to
*react* as though that's what you said to her.
It will help your relationship a lot if you see the two of you as
having very valid but opposing needs. What you want isn't to impose
your needs on her but to find a way to not step on each other's toes.
> I wanted her to parallel other"I wanted her to ..."
> recipes and create her own or geez how about follow one of those
> recipes what is the hurry to reinvent the wheel is my question?
Setting up expectations of her doing or wanting what you think is
right is only going to frustrate you which you will pass onto your
daughter. Begin where she is and help her get where she wants.
I know you think that's what you're doing but what you're doing now
is helping her get to the one and only destination you think is
right. Rather than approaching the recipe from a "You need to know
how much," approach it from "Well, how much of each of these should
you use? If you get a cookbook you can get an idea of how much."
> And it's not that I want to control the process for that sake aloneAnd lots of damage is done when we trying to prevent our kids from
> it's that I want to mitigate the damages based on how she usually acts
> in these circumstances. She is so busy trying to be right she misses
> details that take away from the outcome then she feels bad, whines and
> complains.
going down a chosen path. There's a big difference between saying
"It's pretty cold. I'm wearing my coat today," and "Put your coat on
because it's too cold to be without one." If they do choose no coat
we can take it with us -- and never say "I told you so."!
Be honest with her. Tell her you'll get in trouble with your mom if
the kitchen isn't as neat and tidy after the cookies as it is before.
Be her partner in what she wants to do rather than the enforcer of
rules as you see them. Help her be part of the solution rather being
the problem.
> But she doesn't take good notes, learn from her mistakes and try toA good book is Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.
> change her behaviors she wants to just barrel on ahead to the next
> thing.
She is who she is. Fighting against that trying to get her to be
someone who is a deliberate thinking is just going to create a wall
between you. Understanding her will help enormously.
> What I mean to convey by expressing that it was not my desire to bakeI don't know if there's a magic formula for that particular incident.
> was simply that she demanded without regard for the fact that I was
> doing something in the moment.
But there are ways to create a better relationship between you so
that she doesn't feel she needs to keep pulling and pushing to get
what she wants. If she's feeling like you're a barrier between where
she is and what she'd like to have, she's going to push at you. Walk
next to her.
When you have a relationship that doesn't feel to her as though you
were in opposition to each other, then that type of incident won't be
exacerbated by her need to push and pull. She may still be a do first
and fix later type of person but she'll feel like you're her partner
rather than her adversary.
> But what she told me she was going to do and what she ended up doingAnd she isn't you. And it *will* be irritating if you want her to be
> were not exactly the same which just irritates me.
and do as you would and she doesn't. She isn't going to change to be
like you. If you want this to stop irritating you, then you need to
change.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Blog of writing prompts for speculative fiction writers:
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogsome.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>>>>>>>But she doesn't take good notes, learn from her mistakes and tryHow can you know whether she learns from her mistakes? Sometimes things
>>>>>>>>>>to
> change her behaviors she wants to just barrel on ahead to the next
> thing>>>>>>>>>>>>
have to mull around in our brains for awhile for processing. Sometimes *we*
don't know what we learned from something until much later.
Unschooling can't work if you only see learning based on your priorities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>But she doesn't take good notes>>>>>>>>>>>>>So? Who says people must take notes when they cook? I can rarely replicate
a recipe because I always make changes based on the ingredients I have on
hand. Even if I took notes, the next time I made the recipe I would have
different ingredients to wing it with or would try to change something else
about it.
I do sometimes write in my cookbooks, especially if I've made a change that
*I* want to remember the results from. Those "notes" are for me. Thank God
nobody else gets to decide whether they are "good notes" or not.
I sometimes write in a cookbook when I've made something for a special
occasion i.e. "made for Pat's birthday 2005. Really yummy." There is a
term for this: annotate.
>>>>>>>>she wants to just barrel on ahead to the next thing>>>>>>>>>>>She's only nine years old!
Mary Ellen
Sandra Dodd
On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
of weeks ago and it's been in our bathroom as he reads through it.
There's a section on stress management. One of the items is:
Change Yourself and Response by:
• Changing the way you perceive the situation or yourself;
• Changing unrealistic expectations and irrational beliefs;
• Building self esteem
• Cultivating a positive attitude;
• Redefining the situation in a less stress-provoking way.
I think those things will help in the situation with the daughter and
the kitchen.
Sometimes moms new to this list are shocked when someone seems to
take the child's side over the mom's. The thing is, we want YOU to
take your child's side. When things are going better with her, they
will right at that moment also be going better with you. Be her
partner. Make what your daughter needs a priority in your life, even
when what she needs is for you to leave her alone. Decide that she
is crucially, vitally important.
Sandra
> If you want this to stop irritating you, then you need toKeith brought a local pamphlet back from the doctor's office a couple
> change.
of weeks ago and it's been in our bathroom as he reads through it.
There's a section on stress management. One of the items is:
Change Yourself and Response by:
• Changing the way you perceive the situation or yourself;
• Changing unrealistic expectations and irrational beliefs;
• Building self esteem
• Cultivating a positive attitude;
• Redefining the situation in a less stress-provoking way.
I think those things will help in the situation with the daughter and
the kitchen.
Sometimes moms new to this list are shocked when someone seems to
take the child's side over the mom's. The thing is, we want YOU to
take your child's side. When things are going better with her, they
will right at that moment also be going better with you. Be her
partner. Make what your daughter needs a priority in your life, even
when what she needs is for you to leave her alone. Decide that she
is crucially, vitally important.
Sandra