I quit too!
Ren Allen
">>>>In this day and age humans are on an instant gratification kick and
cannot seem to get their minds around gradual change.>>>>>"
There are people in certain spiritual circles that believe we will
continue to use technology to make life easier and easier for all
humans. And it's being viewed as a good thing, because it will allow
for the end of poverty and when everyone has all of their needs met
with ease, people can focus on spiritual issues and how to solve human
relationship/community issues rather than worry about how to survive.
So not even all spiritual and mindful people don't see all the
"instant gratification" as a problem, just another step in evolution.
I guess we all won't be around long enough to know.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
cannot seem to get their minds around gradual change.>>>>>"
There are people in certain spiritual circles that believe we will
continue to use technology to make life easier and easier for all
humans. And it's being viewed as a good thing, because it will allow
for the end of poverty and when everyone has all of their needs met
with ease, people can focus on spiritual issues and how to solve human
relationship/community issues rather than worry about how to survive.
So not even all spiritual and mindful people don't see all the
"instant gratification" as a problem, just another step in evolution.
I guess we all won't be around long enough to know.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Pamela Sorooshian
I'm reading "Midas World" by Frederich Pohl.
(From Amazon) "When Amadeus Amalfi invented the Fusion Power Device,
the earth blossomed, for when power is cheap so is everything else.
Soon robots did all the work, and people had all the "fun! fun! fun!"
But every pipeline has two ends, and despite the stunning triumph of
technology, humanity's success with social engineering was no greater
than it had been. Soon the robot factories began to bury mankind in
luxury, and the New Poor were forced to spend their lives in frantic
consumption so that their masters could live the Simple Life."
Really really good book.
-pam
(From Amazon) "When Amadeus Amalfi invented the Fusion Power Device,
the earth blossomed, for when power is cheap so is everything else.
Soon robots did all the work, and people had all the "fun! fun! fun!"
But every pipeline has two ends, and despite the stunning triumph of
technology, humanity's success with social engineering was no greater
than it had been. Soon the robot factories began to bury mankind in
luxury, and the New Poor were forced to spend their lives in frantic
consumption so that their masters could live the Simple Life."
Really really good book.
-pam
On Jan 26, 2006, at 8:14 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
> So not even all spiritual and mindful people don't see all the
> "instant gratification" as a problem, just another step in evolution.
> I guess we all won't be around long enough to know.:)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 26, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
Please rephrase.
I've been getting a magazine called "Enlightenment." I didn't order
it, so I don't know what caused it to show up. Maybe it's a
replacement for something else, as I've subscribed to a couple of
things that fizzled.
This "Enlightenment" magazine has the same appearance, tone and
urgency as weight loss or home decorating or fashion magazines. It's
about how to get enlightenment right now, and faster than your
friends and neighbors, and then there are ads, so you can shop to get
it cheaper or in a fancier box. Probably it exists for the sake of
the advertisers. Fashionable yoga outfits, meditation pillows, new
age music (recorded, never live)...
People are RUSHING to slow down and to look marvelous doing it. <g>
I don't want to wash my clothes by the river. I'm eight or ten miles
from a little muddy river anyway (The Rio Grande is politically and
geographically important, but physically pretty puny). I like my
washer and dryer. Perhaps it's sinful decadence, but my kids have
clean clothes. I LOVE running water that can be turned off with a
faucet. I'm enamored of refrigeration. Somewhere in there it leads
to MUCH transportation of food between nations and continents, which
seems sinful and wasteful and bad for the environment, and I do
contribute to that when I buy grapes from Chile in the winter. That
has been going on for a long time, though, people importing spices
and dried fruits and nuts from foreign places. England isn't an
orange-growing country but they've had access to oranges for 600
years or more.
There's always someone ready to say the sky is falling and the world
is ending and it's all our fault. That has been going on since
"Biblical times" as far as we know in our historically documented
history, and probably in other cultures as well.
Sandra
>Too negative. I mean too many negatives.
> So not even all spiritual and mindful people don't see all the
> "instant gratification" as a problem, just another step in evolution.
> I guess we all won't be around long enough to know.:)
Please rephrase.
I've been getting a magazine called "Enlightenment." I didn't order
it, so I don't know what caused it to show up. Maybe it's a
replacement for something else, as I've subscribed to a couple of
things that fizzled.
This "Enlightenment" magazine has the same appearance, tone and
urgency as weight loss or home decorating or fashion magazines. It's
about how to get enlightenment right now, and faster than your
friends and neighbors, and then there are ads, so you can shop to get
it cheaper or in a fancier box. Probably it exists for the sake of
the advertisers. Fashionable yoga outfits, meditation pillows, new
age music (recorded, never live)...
People are RUSHING to slow down and to look marvelous doing it. <g>
I don't want to wash my clothes by the river. I'm eight or ten miles
from a little muddy river anyway (The Rio Grande is politically and
geographically important, but physically pretty puny). I like my
washer and dryer. Perhaps it's sinful decadence, but my kids have
clean clothes. I LOVE running water that can be turned off with a
faucet. I'm enamored of refrigeration. Somewhere in there it leads
to MUCH transportation of food between nations and continents, which
seems sinful and wasteful and bad for the environment, and I do
contribute to that when I buy grapes from Chile in the winter. That
has been going on for a long time, though, people importing spices
and dried fruits and nuts from foreign places. England isn't an
orange-growing country but they've had access to oranges for 600
years or more.
There's always someone ready to say the sky is falling and the world
is ending and it's all our fault. That has been going on since
"Biblical times" as far as we know in our historically documented
history, and probably in other cultures as well.
Sandra
Ren Allen
What I was muddling through with this thought, is that there seems to
be this idea floating around that if you are really "enlightened" or
living mindfully, you will disparage "instant gratification" (whatever
the hell that entails) and live the simple life.
My point was that there ARE mindful, enlightened people that see
"instant gratification" as part of human evolution and that we will
continue to use technology to make our lives easier, and it's OK.:)
Hope that's clearer.
"People are RUSHING to slow down and to look marvelous doing it. <g>"
Yes.
You can attend a thousand Zen classes at a University and still not
understand it because it is something that is internal. You can have a
bunch of nice meditation products and still be angry. You can make a
big deal out of living simply and still miss all the beauty around you.
It's not about the accoutrements (sp?) but the "seeing with new eyes".
Sorta like unschooling.
You can read all the books, you can talk to unschoolers, attend a
conference and join some lists. But until you GET IT at the internal
level, until there is trust and a willingness to extend that trust to
your children, unschooling is just a nice idea or philosophy to
discuss...nothing more. For those that decide to learn to trust
themselves and their children, they soon find their lives a bubbly,
interesting swirl of natural learning.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
be this idea floating around that if you are really "enlightened" or
living mindfully, you will disparage "instant gratification" (whatever
the hell that entails) and live the simple life.
My point was that there ARE mindful, enlightened people that see
"instant gratification" as part of human evolution and that we will
continue to use technology to make our lives easier, and it's OK.:)
Hope that's clearer.
"People are RUSHING to slow down and to look marvelous doing it. <g>"
Yes.
You can attend a thousand Zen classes at a University and still not
understand it because it is something that is internal. You can have a
bunch of nice meditation products and still be angry. You can make a
big deal out of living simply and still miss all the beauty around you.
It's not about the accoutrements (sp?) but the "seeing with new eyes".
Sorta like unschooling.
You can read all the books, you can talk to unschoolers, attend a
conference and join some lists. But until you GET IT at the internal
level, until there is trust and a willingness to extend that trust to
your children, unschooling is just a nice idea or philosophy to
discuss...nothing more. For those that decide to learn to trust
themselves and their children, they soon find their lives a bubbly,
interesting swirl of natural learning.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 26, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
I figured that's what you meant. <g>
If some zen master or guru is head of a monastery/retreat in the
mountains somewhere, he might himself expect some instant
gratification if he asks for tea for guests, or if he decides a
visitor is being disruptive and needs to pack up and 'git.' There
is practice, and then there is management.
A lot of parenting is management.
Some of unschooling parenting is practice (in the spiritual sense).
Someone can unschool without thinking of it in any spiritual way, but
by being methodical in offering freedoms and in acting respectfully.
It will work.
There's something else possible, though, where the methods and
freedoms and respect can just become part of our organic selves, so
that we aren't just acting respectfully of our children, but *being*
respectful.
(Maybe that's too controversial a statement for this list. Some
people might run away from it.)
Sandra
> What I was muddling through with this thought, is that there seems to==================
> be this idea floating around that if you are really "enlightened" or
> living mindfully, you will disparage "instant gratification" (whatever
> the hell that entails) and live the simple life.
>
> My point was that there ARE mindful, enlightened people that see
> "instant gratification" as part of human evolution and that we will
> continue to use technology to make our lives easier, and it's OK.:)
>
> Hope that's clearer.
I figured that's what you meant. <g>
If some zen master or guru is head of a monastery/retreat in the
mountains somewhere, he might himself expect some instant
gratification if he asks for tea for guests, or if he decides a
visitor is being disruptive and needs to pack up and 'git.' There
is practice, and then there is management.
A lot of parenting is management.
Some of unschooling parenting is practice (in the spiritual sense).
Someone can unschool without thinking of it in any spiritual way, but
by being methodical in offering freedoms and in acting respectfully.
It will work.
There's something else possible, though, where the methods and
freedoms and respect can just become part of our organic selves, so
that we aren't just acting respectfully of our children, but *being*
respectful.
(Maybe that's too controversial a statement for this list. Some
people might run away from it.)
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 26, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
Here are websites of Buddhist monastaries on four continents. This
isn't proof of approval of instant gratification, but it's something
to consider.
http://www.abhayagiri.org/
http://www.amaravati.org/
http://www.ratanagiri.org.uk/
http://www.drba.org/
http://www.ganden.org/
http://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/
http://www.saigon.com/~hoasen/Vbm-about-us.html
With unschooling, some people get it quickly. Some people don't get
it after even years of saying they're doing it (and trying to do it,
but without the spark of "OH!! I get it!"). Deschooling doesn't
always do the trick, though it does for many people.
I added something Ren wrote today to a collection I have here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/gettingit
Sandra
> My point was that there ARE mindful, enlightened people that see=========================================================
> "instant gratification" as part of human evolution and that we will
> continue to use technology to make our lives easier, and it's OK.:)
Here are websites of Buddhist monastaries on four continents. This
isn't proof of approval of instant gratification, but it's something
to consider.
http://www.abhayagiri.org/
http://www.amaravati.org/
http://www.ratanagiri.org.uk/
http://www.drba.org/
http://www.ganden.org/
http://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/
http://www.saigon.com/~hoasen/Vbm-about-us.html
With unschooling, some people get it quickly. Some people don't get
it after even years of saying they're doing it (and trying to do it,
but without the spark of "OH!! I get it!"). Deschooling doesn't
always do the trick, though it does for many people.
I added something Ren wrote today to a collection I have here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/gettingit
Sandra