photos and the internet
nellebelle
I'm looking for advice on teens, photos, and the Internet.
13yo Lisa has recently taken a lot of photos with herself and her friends. (Well, she's always taken a lot of photos, but she and her friends are growing up, no longer just little girls.) Yesterday, she and a friend had printed some out and were folding them up with tabs that said "pull". I asked why they were folding the photo like that and they said it was fun.
This morning when Pat (dh) brought in the newspaper he found two of the photos laying in the street in front of our house. One was close up of a neighbor girl puckering her lips at a photo of a boy (as if she was about to kiss it) and the other was Lisa holding her finger to her lips. Pat thought it was strange that the photos were on the street and asked me why they were there. I said it was likely someone had dropped them, probably accidentally, but I didn't know and he should ask Lisa (who was asleep at the time). That led to a discussion in which Pat expressed concern about Lisa posting photos on the internet (myspace). His concern is sexual predators. He left for work before she got up.
I am not paranoid about internet predators. Yes, I know that perverts are out there, but the risk of one effectively targeting my dd is small. Still, I'm not sure how to respond when dh gets going about the issue and I wonder if I am *under*reacting. Lisa uses my computer for her blogging and I've always checked her blog from time to time and am sometimes in the room while she is working on it. She has also sometimes asked me to look at something on her blog, so I don't think she is trying to hide anything there. I keep a blog too and invite her to read mine or sometimes ask her to read a specific post. I do not see everything she does on the internet (posting comments to other people's blogs) or read her email unless she shares something with me.
Some of the photos *could* be taken as suggestive, though I'm uncertain whether that was the girls' intent when they took the photos.
I have talked to Lisa about using caution in choosing photos to post. I told her that there are laws about posting photos that show certain body parts. I was referring to a photo of one of the girls at her birthday party - a close up of her breasts in a low cut t-shirt (which had not been posted anywhere, it was just in the folder of photos from the birthday party). It turns out that Jackie (my 10yod) had taken the photo and the girl had moved right before she snapped it. It was not supposed to be a close up photo of breasts. The next photo was the same girl with a nice smile. Which goes to show that it is better to find out what the intent was before jumping to conclusions! I told Lisa that I thought we should delete a few of the photos, rather than risk someone seeing them who might get offended. She readily agreed to that.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
13yo Lisa has recently taken a lot of photos with herself and her friends. (Well, she's always taken a lot of photos, but she and her friends are growing up, no longer just little girls.) Yesterday, she and a friend had printed some out and were folding them up with tabs that said "pull". I asked why they were folding the photo like that and they said it was fun.
This morning when Pat (dh) brought in the newspaper he found two of the photos laying in the street in front of our house. One was close up of a neighbor girl puckering her lips at a photo of a boy (as if she was about to kiss it) and the other was Lisa holding her finger to her lips. Pat thought it was strange that the photos were on the street and asked me why they were there. I said it was likely someone had dropped them, probably accidentally, but I didn't know and he should ask Lisa (who was asleep at the time). That led to a discussion in which Pat expressed concern about Lisa posting photos on the internet (myspace). His concern is sexual predators. He left for work before she got up.
I am not paranoid about internet predators. Yes, I know that perverts are out there, but the risk of one effectively targeting my dd is small. Still, I'm not sure how to respond when dh gets going about the issue and I wonder if I am *under*reacting. Lisa uses my computer for her blogging and I've always checked her blog from time to time and am sometimes in the room while she is working on it. She has also sometimes asked me to look at something on her blog, so I don't think she is trying to hide anything there. I keep a blog too and invite her to read mine or sometimes ask her to read a specific post. I do not see everything she does on the internet (posting comments to other people's blogs) or read her email unless she shares something with me.
Some of the photos *could* be taken as suggestive, though I'm uncertain whether that was the girls' intent when they took the photos.
I have talked to Lisa about using caution in choosing photos to post. I told her that there are laws about posting photos that show certain body parts. I was referring to a photo of one of the girls at her birthday party - a close up of her breasts in a low cut t-shirt (which had not been posted anywhere, it was just in the folder of photos from the birthday party). It turns out that Jackie (my 10yod) had taken the photo and the girl had moved right before she snapped it. It was not supposed to be a close up photo of breasts. The next photo was the same girl with a nice smile. Which goes to show that it is better to find out what the intent was before jumping to conclusions! I told Lisa that I thought we should delete a few of the photos, rather than risk someone seeing them who might get offended. She readily agreed to that.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I'm looking for advice on teens, photos, and the Internet.-=-
Sexual predators can't pass through myspace.com.
As long as the kids don't invite any guys over or agree to meet them
at the bus stop, it's not gonig to be a problem.
Every story I've ever read or heard about a teen being involved in a
frightening, questionable liason with a predator has begun with
someone being lonely and feeling helplessly locked up and limited in
an unhappy home, so that the company of a stranger seemed better and
safer than what they had with parents.
A safe, loved, respected child/teen/person who has some freedom and
choice in life, who is happy and secure, won't even BEGIN to need the
attentions of faceless weirdos.
Sandra
Sexual predators can't pass through myspace.com.
As long as the kids don't invite any guys over or agree to meet them
at the bus stop, it's not gonig to be a problem.
Every story I've ever read or heard about a teen being involved in a
frightening, questionable liason with a predator has begun with
someone being lonely and feeling helplessly locked up and limited in
an unhappy home, so that the company of a stranger seemed better and
safer than what they had with parents.
A safe, loved, respected child/teen/person who has some freedom and
choice in life, who is happy and secure, won't even BEGIN to need the
attentions of faceless weirdos.
Sandra
S Drag-teine
Mary Ellen,
I think everyone thinks that their life is blessed and nothing will happen
to them until it does. We have to live like that or we would become neurotic
with all the things that could happen. With that said there is nothing wrong
with being cautious. You may want to look at a website that requires a
password.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of nellebelle
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
I'm looking for advice on teens, photos, and the Internet.
13yo Lisa has recently taken a lot of photos with herself and her friends.
(Well, she's always taken a lot of photos, but she and her friends are
growing up, no longer just little girls.) Yesterday, she and a friend had
printed some out and were folding them up with tabs that said "pull". I
asked why they were folding the photo like that and they said it was fun.
This morning when Pat (dh) brought in the newspaper he found two of the
photos laying in the street in front of our house. One was close up of a
neighbor girl puckering her lips at a photo of a boy (as if she was about to
kiss it) and the other was Lisa holding her finger to her lips. Pat thought
it was strange that the photos were on the street and asked me why they were
there. I said it was likely someone had dropped them, probably
accidentally, but I didn't know and he should ask Lisa (who was asleep at
the time). That led to a discussion in which Pat expressed concern about
Lisa posting photos on the internet (myspace). His concern is sexual
predators. He left for work before she got up.
I am not paranoid about internet predators. Yes, I know that perverts are
out there, but the risk of one effectively targeting my dd is small. Still,
I'm not sure how to respond when dh gets going about the issue and I wonder
if I am *under*reacting. Lisa uses my computer for her blogging and I've
always checked her blog from time to time and am sometimes in the room while
she is working on it. She has also sometimes asked me to look at something
on her blog, so I don't think she is trying to hide anything there. I keep
a blog too and invite her to read mine or sometimes ask her to read a
specific post. I do not see everything she does on the internet (posting
comments to other people's blogs) or read her email unless she shares
something with me.
Some of the photos *could* be taken as suggestive, though I'm uncertain
whether that was the girls' intent when they took the photos.
I have talked to Lisa about using caution in choosing photos to post. I
told her that there are laws about posting photos that show certain body
parts. I was referring to a photo of one of the girls at her birthday party
- a close up of her breasts in a low cut t-shirt (which had not been posted
anywhere, it was just in the folder of photos from the birthday party). It
turns out that Jackie (my 10yod) had taken the photo and the girl had moved
right before she snapped it. It was not supposed to be a close up photo of
breasts. The next photo was the same girl with a nice smile. Which goes to
show that it is better to find out what the intent was before jumping to
conclusions! I told Lisa that I thought we should delete a few of the
photos, rather than risk someone seeing them who might get offended. She
readily agreed to that.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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I think everyone thinks that their life is blessed and nothing will happen
to them until it does. We have to live like that or we would become neurotic
with all the things that could happen. With that said there is nothing wrong
with being cautious. You may want to look at a website that requires a
password.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of nellebelle
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
I'm looking for advice on teens, photos, and the Internet.
13yo Lisa has recently taken a lot of photos with herself and her friends.
(Well, she's always taken a lot of photos, but she and her friends are
growing up, no longer just little girls.) Yesterday, she and a friend had
printed some out and were folding them up with tabs that said "pull". I
asked why they were folding the photo like that and they said it was fun.
This morning when Pat (dh) brought in the newspaper he found two of the
photos laying in the street in front of our house. One was close up of a
neighbor girl puckering her lips at a photo of a boy (as if she was about to
kiss it) and the other was Lisa holding her finger to her lips. Pat thought
it was strange that the photos were on the street and asked me why they were
there. I said it was likely someone had dropped them, probably
accidentally, but I didn't know and he should ask Lisa (who was asleep at
the time). That led to a discussion in which Pat expressed concern about
Lisa posting photos on the internet (myspace). His concern is sexual
predators. He left for work before she got up.
I am not paranoid about internet predators. Yes, I know that perverts are
out there, but the risk of one effectively targeting my dd is small. Still,
I'm not sure how to respond when dh gets going about the issue and I wonder
if I am *under*reacting. Lisa uses my computer for her blogging and I've
always checked her blog from time to time and am sometimes in the room while
she is working on it. She has also sometimes asked me to look at something
on her blog, so I don't think she is trying to hide anything there. I keep
a blog too and invite her to read mine or sometimes ask her to read a
specific post. I do not see everything she does on the internet (posting
comments to other people's blogs) or read her email unless she shares
something with me.
Some of the photos *could* be taken as suggestive, though I'm uncertain
whether that was the girls' intent when they took the photos.
I have talked to Lisa about using caution in choosing photos to post. I
told her that there are laws about posting photos that show certain body
parts. I was referring to a photo of one of the girls at her birthday party
- a close up of her breasts in a low cut t-shirt (which had not been posted
anywhere, it was just in the folder of photos from the birthday party). It
turns out that Jackie (my 10yod) had taken the photo and the girl had moved
right before she snapped it. It was not supposed to be a close up photo of
breasts. The next photo was the same girl with a nice smile. Which goes to
show that it is better to find out what the intent was before jumping to
conclusions! I told Lisa that I thought we should delete a few of the
photos, rather than risk someone seeing them who might get offended. She
readily agreed to that.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
SPONSORED LINKS
Graduate
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Graduate+s
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Sandra Dodd
On Jan 16, 2006, at 3:37 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
Well.... it's better than assuming something terrible is likely to
befall. With a life like that, there are never blessings.
And also, it makes it seem as though all is random. There are ways
to make life happier. One way is to just be happy.
=-With that said there is nothing wrong
with being cautious. You may want to look at a website that requires a
password.
-=-
Bad guys can get passwords.
But confident kids who communicate well with parents and wouldn't be
tempted to sneak out or to lie wouldn't be in danger of meeting
someone who says he'll marry her if she meets him at the train
station. That doesn't happen randomly.
There can be something wrong with being cautious.
Disallowing instant messages altogether because of imagined dangers
is like locking a kid up.
Not letting a teen have a webpage because of imagined or rumored
dangers is like saying "Here's a big library--don't touch the books,"
or "Here's a telephone; don't call anyone" or "Here's a TV; don't
turn it on."
That's what teens do with computers--chat with other kids and make
webpages. What it's good for is practice using computers and
programs (some easier than others) and encoding and artistic
decisions (Kirby will end up getting help from Holly on his webpage
because she knows things about how to make it easier to read), and
social exchanges.
Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious" and
just say no.
It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that," but
it's not a good unschooling move.
Sandra
> I think everyone thinks that their life is blessed and nothing will============
> happen
> to them until it does.
Well.... it's better than assuming something terrible is likely to
befall. With a life like that, there are never blessings.
And also, it makes it seem as though all is random. There are ways
to make life happier. One way is to just be happy.
=-With that said there is nothing wrong
with being cautious. You may want to look at a website that requires a
password.
-=-
Bad guys can get passwords.
But confident kids who communicate well with parents and wouldn't be
tempted to sneak out or to lie wouldn't be in danger of meeting
someone who says he'll marry her if she meets him at the train
station. That doesn't happen randomly.
There can be something wrong with being cautious.
Disallowing instant messages altogether because of imagined dangers
is like locking a kid up.
Not letting a teen have a webpage because of imagined or rumored
dangers is like saying "Here's a big library--don't touch the books,"
or "Here's a telephone; don't call anyone" or "Here's a TV; don't
turn it on."
That's what teens do with computers--chat with other kids and make
webpages. What it's good for is practice using computers and
programs (some easier than others) and encoding and artistic
decisions (Kirby will end up getting help from Holly on his webpage
because she knows things about how to make it easier to read), and
social exchanges.
Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious" and
just say no.
It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that," but
it's not a good unschooling move.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/2006 7:18:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that," but
it's not a good unschooling move.<<
I'm thankful this discussion came up...I was going to post something about
our situation but didn't know if it would be too off topic, though I don't
think it is. Mary Ellen's email about her daughters pictures touched on what
happened with us.
We have pretty much given our kids access to the internet and both of my
older (at home) kids had "my space" pages. My husband and I are not on the same
page on this, as he's much more cautious about things.
My son had a couple of friends spend the night Sat and Sun, and both nights
the boys stayed up super late on the internet. Turns out they were chatting
with girls, and a few "risque" (to say the least) pictures got passed back
and forth. Our son is 17, as were the other boys. My husband found out
because he had asked the boys to go to bed and they got back up and when he
confronted them about it, he saw what they had been doing.
He wasn't mad over the content of the emails (photos) but that the boys were
being very sneaky about it, and lied about what they had been doing. We're
not happy, but we understand that if we were their age and had had access to
the internet we may have done the same. I asked my husband if he thought
he'd lie if his mom had caughter him...:o)
Through all of this, he checked out both kids my space pages...my son's
didn't have anything bad on it,...lots of punk stuff, etc. But my daughter (15)
had some pictures that were a lot the way Mary Ellen described her daughters
pictures. No nudity, but poses that seemed suggestive. This is NOT uncommon
for a lot of "my space" pages that I've seen (kids friends, my older
daughter's friends, etc.)
But my daughter, in her blog, admitted to doing something with a boy (not
intercourse) and my husband was very upset...I have to admit it made me sad
too. She wasn't doing anything that I hadn't done at her same age, but it's
still sort of a shock. Although we were a little disappointed, I think what
bothers us most was that she had posted about it, and that she tried (on the
page) to take on the persona of a rebel child, who has had many boyfriends, and
it was there for everyone to see (we are from a VERY small town.) But I was
quick to identify that what bothered me the MOST was what others would think
of ME and our family, and I've instead put that aside and said
"F-it"...she's the one I care about and I know she's a really good, creative, wonderful
kid.
My husband at first got really upset, and deleted their my space pages, put
their AOL screen names back down to no email, no IM's, no chats, but left
internet exploring open. But after stepping back from the situation, he
realized he had over-reacted. This situation which started out as a potential keg
of dynomite fizzled out and calmed very quickly. I encouraged him to talk
with each kid by themselves...my daughter got teary with him, she was really
embarassed more than anything.
My husband and I went by ourselves to the store later, and we had a good
talk about what we were doing at their ages, and how maybe instead of cutting
them off from the world in situations like that (no IM's, no Chats, Etc) it'd be
better to spend a lot more time talking with them about their worth, self
respect, respect of others (the pictures a few girls sent to my son were
terrible, heartbreaking that girls would feel the need to do this...), and safety.
I have convinced my husband that if we just monitor a little more closely
what they do, but give them full access,...that, along with lots of time spent
with us talking about what they see and do on the internet (especially my
husband and my daughter together) then I don't think we'll have much to worry
about. We talked about starting from scratch (for their My Space page) and
thinking about what they write, who sees it, etc,...at all times.
I just wanted to get thoughts from other parents about if something like
this has ever happened at their home, whether they notified the other parents
(in the case of the boys), and how they handled it, etc.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
>>Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious" andjust say no.
It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that," but
it's not a good unschooling move.<<
I'm thankful this discussion came up...I was going to post something about
our situation but didn't know if it would be too off topic, though I don't
think it is. Mary Ellen's email about her daughters pictures touched on what
happened with us.
We have pretty much given our kids access to the internet and both of my
older (at home) kids had "my space" pages. My husband and I are not on the same
page on this, as he's much more cautious about things.
My son had a couple of friends spend the night Sat and Sun, and both nights
the boys stayed up super late on the internet. Turns out they were chatting
with girls, and a few "risque" (to say the least) pictures got passed back
and forth. Our son is 17, as were the other boys. My husband found out
because he had asked the boys to go to bed and they got back up and when he
confronted them about it, he saw what they had been doing.
He wasn't mad over the content of the emails (photos) but that the boys were
being very sneaky about it, and lied about what they had been doing. We're
not happy, but we understand that if we were their age and had had access to
the internet we may have done the same. I asked my husband if he thought
he'd lie if his mom had caughter him...:o)
Through all of this, he checked out both kids my space pages...my son's
didn't have anything bad on it,...lots of punk stuff, etc. But my daughter (15)
had some pictures that were a lot the way Mary Ellen described her daughters
pictures. No nudity, but poses that seemed suggestive. This is NOT uncommon
for a lot of "my space" pages that I've seen (kids friends, my older
daughter's friends, etc.)
But my daughter, in her blog, admitted to doing something with a boy (not
intercourse) and my husband was very upset...I have to admit it made me sad
too. She wasn't doing anything that I hadn't done at her same age, but it's
still sort of a shock. Although we were a little disappointed, I think what
bothers us most was that she had posted about it, and that she tried (on the
page) to take on the persona of a rebel child, who has had many boyfriends, and
it was there for everyone to see (we are from a VERY small town.) But I was
quick to identify that what bothered me the MOST was what others would think
of ME and our family, and I've instead put that aside and said
"F-it"...she's the one I care about and I know she's a really good, creative, wonderful
kid.
My husband at first got really upset, and deleted their my space pages, put
their AOL screen names back down to no email, no IM's, no chats, but left
internet exploring open. But after stepping back from the situation, he
realized he had over-reacted. This situation which started out as a potential keg
of dynomite fizzled out and calmed very quickly. I encouraged him to talk
with each kid by themselves...my daughter got teary with him, she was really
embarassed more than anything.
My husband and I went by ourselves to the store later, and we had a good
talk about what we were doing at their ages, and how maybe instead of cutting
them off from the world in situations like that (no IM's, no Chats, Etc) it'd be
better to spend a lot more time talking with them about their worth, self
respect, respect of others (the pictures a few girls sent to my son were
terrible, heartbreaking that girls would feel the need to do this...), and safety.
I have convinced my husband that if we just monitor a little more closely
what they do, but give them full access,...that, along with lots of time spent
with us talking about what they see and do on the internet (especially my
husband and my daughter together) then I don't think we'll have much to worry
about. We talked about starting from scratch (for their My Space page) and
thinking about what they write, who sees it, etc,...at all times.
I just wanted to get thoughts from other parents about if something like
this has ever happened at their home, whether they notified the other parents
(in the case of the boys), and how they handled it, etc.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S Drag-teine
Well said! And I agree with you. if we think about all the things that could
happen. well, some of us wouldn't get out of bed.
When I said cautious I didn't mean not allowing it but just as you said -
keeping lines of communication open - making sure that your child are
stranger aware even on the internet. You don't have to tell me what kids do
on the computer I grew up with one. I was once one of those kids who could
stay up 24 hours talking online. I wrote viruses and infected my school
computers with the music bug. I hacked systems just to see if I could do it.
I write back and forth in IM language that makes most adults brain hurt lol.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
happen. well, some of us wouldn't get out of bed.
When I said cautious I didn't mean not allowing it but just as you said -
keeping lines of communication open - making sure that your child are
stranger aware even on the internet. You don't have to tell me what kids do
on the computer I grew up with one. I was once one of those kids who could
stay up 24 hours talking online. I wrote viruses and infected my school
computers with the music bug. I hacked systems just to see if I could do it.
I write back and forth in IM language that makes most adults brain hurt lol.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
On Jan 16, 2006, at 3:37 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
> I think everyone thinks that their life is blessed and nothing will
> happen
> to them until it does.
============
Well.... it's better than assuming something terrible is likely to
befall. With a life like that, there are never blessings.
And also, it makes it seem as though all is random. There are ways
to make life happier. One way is to just be happy.
=-With that said there is nothing wrong
with being cautious. You may want to look at a website that requires a
password.
-=-
Bad guys can get passwords.
But confident kids who communicate well with parents and wouldn't be
tempted to sneak out or to lie wouldn't be in danger of meeting
someone who says he'll marry her if she meets him at the train
station. That doesn't happen randomly.
There can be something wrong with being cautious.
Disallowing instant messages altogether because of imagined dangers
is like locking a kid up.
Not letting a teen have a webpage because of imagined or rumored
dangers is like saying "Here's a big library--don't touch the books,"
or "Here's a telephone; don't call anyone" or "Here's a TV; don't
turn it on."
That's what teens do with computers--chat with other kids and make
webpages. What it's good for is practice using computers and
programs (some easier than others) and encoding and artistic
decisions (Kirby will end up getting help from Holly on his webpage
because she knows things about how to make it easier to read), and
social exchanges.
Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious" and
just say no.
It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that," but
it's not a good unschooling move.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
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Sandra Dodd
On Jan 16, 2006, at 6:44 PM, CelticFrau@... wrote:
While you're remembering what you were doing at your kids' ages, also
remember WHERE you were doing it. Not in your own bedroom at home.
Not in your own front yard. Not with kids eight states away. If
you were anything like me, you were in a car at a drive-in, or parked
in some dark place alone with a boy, or with a group of other teens
drinking cheap wine, smoking dope...
Every one of my kids is older than I was when I had done things that
would kid of panic me if they were doing them, but they're not; not
even a little bit.
Marty's 17th birthday was held here at home, by his own agreement.
There was another party for him the night before at a house owned by
a newly 21 year old, who didn't go drinking on her birthday, who
didn't have alcohol at her house.
When I was 17 I was in college, going DAYS without my parents having
any earthly idea where I was or who I was with, and I was very often
not even in the same city they thought I was in, and with people they
had never met and never would.
That's not true of my kids.
A kid who's on the computer isn't out parking on a country road.
A kid who's not in school isn't out behind the bandroom ditching class.
Sandra
>================
> I just wanted to get thoughts from other parents about if something
> like
> this has ever happened at their home, whether they notified the
> other parents
> (in the case of the boys), and how they handled it, etc.
While you're remembering what you were doing at your kids' ages, also
remember WHERE you were doing it. Not in your own bedroom at home.
Not in your own front yard. Not with kids eight states away. If
you were anything like me, you were in a car at a drive-in, or parked
in some dark place alone with a boy, or with a group of other teens
drinking cheap wine, smoking dope...
Every one of my kids is older than I was when I had done things that
would kid of panic me if they were doing them, but they're not; not
even a little bit.
Marty's 17th birthday was held here at home, by his own agreement.
There was another party for him the night before at a house owned by
a newly 21 year old, who didn't go drinking on her birthday, who
didn't have alcohol at her house.
When I was 17 I was in college, going DAYS without my parents having
any earthly idea where I was or who I was with, and I was very often
not even in the same city they thought I was in, and with people they
had never met and never would.
That's not true of my kids.
A kid who's on the computer isn't out parking on a country road.
A kid who's not in school isn't out behind the bandroom ditching class.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 16, 2006, at 8:19 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
choice. We don't tell them what they have to do, but they're not
sneaky nor do they go without sleep.
-=-I wrote viruses and infected my school
computers with the music bug.-=-
That's not a good thing to brag about, is it? Maybe it's part and
parcel of going to school, but as unschoolers don't have resentment
toward school why would they want to vandalize them?
-=-I hacked systems just to see if I could do it.-=-
Bummer you didn't have better things to do. I'm sure you learned a
lot, but you might've been safer and the rest of the world safer if
you'd just been hanging out with other kids online, even if you were
just talking dirty and sharing nasty photos. Better than destruction
of other people's property.
Sandra
> I was once one of those kids who couldMine aren't. They go to sleep when they need to. But they have a
> stay up 24 hours talking online.
choice. We don't tell them what they have to do, but they're not
sneaky nor do they go without sleep.
-=-I wrote viruses and infected my school
computers with the music bug.-=-
That's not a good thing to brag about, is it? Maybe it's part and
parcel of going to school, but as unschoolers don't have resentment
toward school why would they want to vandalize them?
-=-I hacked systems just to see if I could do it.-=-
Bummer you didn't have better things to do. I'm sure you learned a
lot, but you might've been safer and the rest of the world safer if
you'd just been hanging out with other kids online, even if you were
just talking dirty and sharing nasty photos. Better than destruction
of other people's property.
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 16, 2006, at 12:35 PM, nellebelle wrote:
something and have vague unspecified fears -- is to nail down just
what I think could really happen. Say it really plain and simple -
say each possibility from bad to worse. Deal with it mentally -
assess how realistic it is and make a decision about how to deal with
it and then let it go.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm looking for advice on teens, photos, and the Internet.What helps me when I get the feeling I "should" be worried about
something and have vague unspecified fears -- is to nail down just
what I think could really happen. Say it really plain and simple -
say each possibility from bad to worse. Deal with it mentally -
assess how realistic it is and make a decision about how to deal with
it and then let it go.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nrskay
>dangers
> There can be something wrong with being cautious.
> Disallowing instant messages altogether because of imagined
> is like locking a kid up.books,"
> Not letting a teen have a webpage because of imagined or rumored
> dangers is like saying "Here's a big library--don't touch the
> or "Here's a telephone; don't call anyone" or "Here's a TV; don'tmake
> turn it on."
>
> That's what teens do with computers--chat with other kids and
> webpages. What it's good for is practice using computers andwebpage
> programs (some easier than others) and encoding and artistic
> decisions (Kirby will end up getting help from Holly on his
> because she knows things about how to make it easier to read),and
> social exchanges.and
>
> Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious"
> just say no.but
> It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that,"
> it's not a good unschooling move.========================================================
>
> Sandra
I agree, I have allowed my dd to have IM and she manages 2
websites. We talk about being careful, but I don't make such a fuss
that she will get major alarmed. She often shows me what she is
creating on her websites and she IM's with other gamers and friends.
We just need to keep the communication open with our children and
they will feel safe and will come to us when something doesn't feel
right.
Kay
S Drag-teine
Oh wait, I gave the wrong impression. I was online with permission and I was
talking online and playing games and could stay on for twenty four hours and
not think anything of it.
I wrote viruses because I could but it was never damaging - in fact once I
realized what I had done. Really it was just supposed to be a project for
school because my teacher didn't think I could do it. The bug itself did no
harm except locking the computer and playing an annoying song - hence the
music bug. Once it started to spread I developed an anti-virus so that the
computer would unlock.
I hacked but I didn't vandalize - it was a challenge to get into somewhere
you weren't supposed to but that is all. The challenge is what excited me
not doing anyone harm.
Yes, had I been better guided I could have done more with it and probably
became a programmer or some kind of network security person but I didn't and
I hope to better with my children.
The point I was trying to make was that I am computer savvy and would not
suggest to anyone to block their children from something that I grew up
using. Kids will be kids and while they might not do things the way we want
them to as long as they aren't causing harm to themselves or others or
endangering themselves. well at some point we have to trust that we did a
good job raising them.
My son is five and knows more about computing then I did at his age. I
didn't learn until age 7 or 8 - our first computer was a TRS-80 Color
computer on a B&W TV. It was such a big thing at the time there was a news
article in our local paper about buying the first home computer in our area.
My first "disks" were fifteen minute audio tapes. He will never have to time
a tape recording to a line enter on the computer.
Our children are facing the same situations we did in a different way as
well as new problems. Like being able to talk to thirty people online but
never having human interaction for that day. Like spending time with friends
and never really talking to them because they are all talking on their cell
phones. I am not saying that your children are doing anything bad - really I
didn't do anything bad either. Annoying maybe - sneaky yes - but not bad. I
think we all do our best to raise good kids.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
talking online and playing games and could stay on for twenty four hours and
not think anything of it.
I wrote viruses because I could but it was never damaging - in fact once I
realized what I had done. Really it was just supposed to be a project for
school because my teacher didn't think I could do it. The bug itself did no
harm except locking the computer and playing an annoying song - hence the
music bug. Once it started to spread I developed an anti-virus so that the
computer would unlock.
I hacked but I didn't vandalize - it was a challenge to get into somewhere
you weren't supposed to but that is all. The challenge is what excited me
not doing anyone harm.
Yes, had I been better guided I could have done more with it and probably
became a programmer or some kind of network security person but I didn't and
I hope to better with my children.
The point I was trying to make was that I am computer savvy and would not
suggest to anyone to block their children from something that I grew up
using. Kids will be kids and while they might not do things the way we want
them to as long as they aren't causing harm to themselves or others or
endangering themselves. well at some point we have to trust that we did a
good job raising them.
My son is five and knows more about computing then I did at his age. I
didn't learn until age 7 or 8 - our first computer was a TRS-80 Color
computer on a B&W TV. It was such a big thing at the time there was a news
article in our local paper about buying the first home computer in our area.
My first "disks" were fifteen minute audio tapes. He will never have to time
a tape recording to a line enter on the computer.
Our children are facing the same situations we did in a different way as
well as new problems. Like being able to talk to thirty people online but
never having human interaction for that day. Like spending time with friends
and never really talking to them because they are all talking on their cell
phones. I am not saying that your children are doing anything bad - really I
didn't do anything bad either. Annoying maybe - sneaky yes - but not bad. I
think we all do our best to raise good kids.
Shannon
~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~.~>|<~
Did you know?...
--most well-known brands of lipstick contain lead?
--air fresheners have toxic ingredients you aren't supposed to breathe?
--most household cleaners have carcinogens and neurotoxins such as
formaldehyde, phenols and/or phosphates?
--of 2,983 everyday products, 884 have toxic chemicals?
I'm glad we switched!
We are now safer and healthier, using toxic-free products and saving money,
too. Call (212) 990-6214 for a 10 minute prerecorded presentation or contact
me directly.
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] photos and the internet
On Jan 16, 2006, at 8:19 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
> I was once one of those kids who could
> stay up 24 hours talking online.
Mine aren't. They go to sleep when they need to. But they have a
choice. We don't tell them what they have to do, but they're not
sneaky nor do they go without sleep.
-=-I wrote viruses and infected my school
computers with the music bug.-=-
That's not a good thing to brag about, is it? Maybe it's part and
parcel of going to school, but as unschoolers don't have resentment
toward school why would they want to vandalize them?
-=-I hacked systems just to see if I could do it.-=-
Bummer you didn't have better things to do. I'm sure you learned a
lot, but you might've been safer and the rest of the world safer if
you'd just been hanging out with other kids online, even if you were
just talking dirty and sharing nasty photos. Better than destruction
of other people's property.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
_____
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
* Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lars Hedbor
I've got to weigh in here. I've thought long and hard about our kids and
exchange students having access to IM over the years. At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met them in
person first.
The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of.
It comes down to a philosophy of parenting: I view my role as a parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions, so long as they
are able to deal with those results. Asking a kid to fend off the
attentions of a determined online predator falls well outside of that
boundary.
- Lars D. H. Hedbor
Author, Small Business Projects/INTERNET
exchange students having access to IM over the years. At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met them in
person first.
The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of.
It comes down to a philosophy of parenting: I view my role as a parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions, so long as they
are able to deal with those results. Asking a kid to fend off the
attentions of a determined online predator falls well outside of that
boundary.
- Lars D. H. Hedbor
Author, Small Business Projects/INTERNET
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of nrskay
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:24 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: photos and the internet
>
> >
> > There can be something wrong with being cautious.
> > Disallowing instant messages altogether because of imagined
> dangers
> > is like locking a kid up.
> > Not letting a teen have a webpage because of imagined or rumored
> > dangers is like saying "Here's a big library--don't touch the
> books,"
> > or "Here's a telephone; don't call anyone" or "Here's a TV; don't
> > turn it on."
> >
> > That's what teens do with computers--chat with other kids and
> make
> > webpages. What it's good for is practice using computers and
> > programs (some easier than others) and encoding and artistic
> > decisions (Kirby will end up getting help from Holly on his
> webpage
> > because she knows things about how to make it easier to read),
> and
> > social exchanges.
> >
> > Or a family can say "There's nothing wrong with being cautious"
> and
> > just say no.
> > It's legal, and millions would say "Good; good parents do that,"
> but
> > it's not a good unschooling move.
> >
> > Sandra
> ========================================================
>
>
> I agree, I have allowed my dd to have IM and she manages 2
> websites. We talk about being careful, but I don't make such a fuss
> that she will get major alarmed. She often shows me what she is
> creating on her websites and she IM's with other gamers and friends.
>
> We just need to keep the communication open with our children and
> they will feel safe and will come to us when something doesn't feel
> right.
>
> Kay
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, Lars Hedbor wrote:
That might make a difference.
-=-The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there
who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring
kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of.
-=-
Why would your kids be susceptible to being lured away from a really
safe and communicative and loving family?
-=-At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met
them in
person first.-=-
I hope you get them out where they can meet people. But they're in
more danger going to a mall to meet people, or to a party, or to
anything, than they are sitting in your house right in sight of you,
aren't they?
-=-It comes down to a philosophy of parenting: I view my role as a
parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions, so long as
they
are able to deal with those results. -=-
If they decide never to leave the house to meet strangers, you'll
have no problem.
-=- I view my role as a parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions,-=-
But you're not letting them practice making decisions like whether to
chat with someone online.
Do they play X-Box Live? Are they allowed in chatrooms if there's
someone in there they've met?
-=-Asking a kid to fend off the
attentions of a determined online predator falls well outside of that
boundary.-=-
We just haven't had that problem at all here. My kids feel no need
to communicate with anyone who's not fun for them, and determination
does no good if a kid isn't needy. My kids aren't needy of attention
or acceptance, so online predators have nothing to offer them.
Adults generally seem to prefer e-mail, but kids like instant
messages. It's an interesting kind of writing, because it's in real
time, unlike anything done in school (besides passing notes in
class). I've corresponded with MANY, many people I hadn't met in
person first. Pam Sorooshian and two of her daughters spent a week
at our house last week, and we've stayed at their house before. I
met Pam online. I wasn't a predator; Pam wasn't a predator.
I have a German friend I met online because he noticed we had the
same birthday, month, day and year. We've had a long correspondence,
and when we say "When I was ten..." the other knows exactly what year
it was, and what the world was like. He's visited here twice, and my
kids like him.
Holly went to a homeschooling campout where she met dozens of kids,
and later was welcomed into their MSN discussions, many of whom chat
in groups, so she's met ("met" online) friends of theirs who are in
England and Wales, and chats with a guy from Sweden who was a friend
of one of the HesFes kids. On X-Box Live she has played games (and
chatted aloud, with headphones and mics) with people from Canada,
France, England, Poland and lots from Australia. Her opponents last
night were speaking Spanish; she doesn't know where they were from.
(Obviously she's right here and I'm asking her for details. <g> I
told her why I was asking, and she said "I'm not afraid of people in
Sweden.")
The Live and Learn conference would never have happened if we didn't
correspond with people we hadn't met in advance, or weren't willing
to meet people with whom we'd corresponded.
If my kids were in school they would be in the company of dozens of
adults and hundreds of children not chosen by me. They would not be
home with me. Compared to that, instant messages are EXTREMELY safe.
Rules invite sneakiness and dishonesty, too. Our kids are very open
with us and with each other. Confidence in little choices and
freedoms leads to bigger confidence and freedom. Someone on one of
these lists was IMing her niece who was a teen, and who said "Don't
tell my parents because I'm not supposed to use IM." The girl was
old enough to reproduce; she was talking to her aunt; that's not a
dangerous situation, yet her parents had set up a situation in which
she was no longer honest with her. And if they told her that using
IM was extremely dangerous, they weren't being honest with her either.
Sandra
> I've got to weigh in here. I've thought long and hard about ourYour exchange students aren't unschooled, are they?
> kids and
> exchange students having access to IM over the years.
That might make a difference.
-=-The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there
who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring
kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of.
-=-
Why would your kids be susceptible to being lured away from a really
safe and communicative and loving family?
-=-At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met
them in
person first.-=-
I hope you get them out where they can meet people. But they're in
more danger going to a mall to meet people, or to a party, or to
anything, than they are sitting in your house right in sight of you,
aren't they?
-=-It comes down to a philosophy of parenting: I view my role as a
parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions, so long as
they
are able to deal with those results. -=-
If they decide never to leave the house to meet strangers, you'll
have no problem.
-=- I view my role as a parent as
being to let my kids bear the results of their decisions,-=-
But you're not letting them practice making decisions like whether to
chat with someone online.
Do they play X-Box Live? Are they allowed in chatrooms if there's
someone in there they've met?
-=-Asking a kid to fend off the
attentions of a determined online predator falls well outside of that
boundary.-=-
We just haven't had that problem at all here. My kids feel no need
to communicate with anyone who's not fun for them, and determination
does no good if a kid isn't needy. My kids aren't needy of attention
or acceptance, so online predators have nothing to offer them.
Adults generally seem to prefer e-mail, but kids like instant
messages. It's an interesting kind of writing, because it's in real
time, unlike anything done in school (besides passing notes in
class). I've corresponded with MANY, many people I hadn't met in
person first. Pam Sorooshian and two of her daughters spent a week
at our house last week, and we've stayed at their house before. I
met Pam online. I wasn't a predator; Pam wasn't a predator.
I have a German friend I met online because he noticed we had the
same birthday, month, day and year. We've had a long correspondence,
and when we say "When I was ten..." the other knows exactly what year
it was, and what the world was like. He's visited here twice, and my
kids like him.
Holly went to a homeschooling campout where she met dozens of kids,
and later was welcomed into their MSN discussions, many of whom chat
in groups, so she's met ("met" online) friends of theirs who are in
England and Wales, and chats with a guy from Sweden who was a friend
of one of the HesFes kids. On X-Box Live she has played games (and
chatted aloud, with headphones and mics) with people from Canada,
France, England, Poland and lots from Australia. Her opponents last
night were speaking Spanish; she doesn't know where they were from.
(Obviously she's right here and I'm asking her for details. <g> I
told her why I was asking, and she said "I'm not afraid of people in
Sweden.")
The Live and Learn conference would never have happened if we didn't
correspond with people we hadn't met in advance, or weren't willing
to meet people with whom we'd corresponded.
If my kids were in school they would be in the company of dozens of
adults and hundreds of children not chosen by me. They would not be
home with me. Compared to that, instant messages are EXTREMELY safe.
Rules invite sneakiness and dishonesty, too. Our kids are very open
with us and with each other. Confidence in little choices and
freedoms leads to bigger confidence and freedom. Someone on one of
these lists was IMing her niece who was a teen, and who said "Don't
tell my parents because I'm not supposed to use IM." The girl was
old enough to reproduce; she was talking to her aunt; that's not a
dangerous situation, yet her parents had set up a situation in which
she was no longer honest with her. And if they told her that using
IM was extremely dangerous, they weren't being honest with her either.
Sandra
Krisula Moyer
Just this week we were at a horsemanship class at local stables and the
instructor wanted all the kids to go on line "with your parents" and find
out something about the horses they were looking at. One mom said "we don't
let the kids go on the internet." not even with them. The instructor
smiled and said, OK the library then. But I just thought Whoa. They have
the internet and don't let the kids see it at all. Weird.
Krisula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
instructor wanted all the kids to go on line "with your parents" and find
out something about the horses they were looking at. One mom said "we don't
let the kids go on the internet." not even with them. The instructor
smiled and said, OK the library then. But I just thought Whoa. They have
the internet and don't let the kids see it at all. Weird.
Krisula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 17, 2006, at 2:59 PM, Lars Hedbor wrote:
predator father of a child your children know who is pretending to be
a child.
If the principle is being happy and feeling safe, there's no reason
for rules (that always have loopholes).
isn't a reason to waste time on confident secure kids.
If you concentrate on making sure your kids feel confident and
secure, that they have someone to talk to when they have problems,
who won't shut them out when the kids are thinking of things that
make the parents uncomfortable then there isn't a need for rules to
protect them from predators.
If you're a road block between your kids and what they're trying to
get, then they're vulnerable to someone who says they can give it to
them.
If your kids tell you something and your focus isn't on what they're
saying but on how to get them to think right, then they're vulnerable
to someone who will say "I understand. Tell me about it."
Is that your house?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> At the moment, ourWhich has the loophole of IMing a predator you've met. Or IMing the
> house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met
> them in
> person first.
predator father of a child your children know who is pretending to be
a child.
If the principle is being happy and feeling safe, there's no reason
for rules (that always have loopholes).
> The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there whoPredators are looking for vulnerable, needy kids. They know there
> devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to
> luring kids
> into situations where they can be taken advantage of.
isn't a reason to waste time on confident secure kids.
If you concentrate on making sure your kids feel confident and
secure, that they have someone to talk to when they have problems,
who won't shut them out when the kids are thinking of things that
make the parents uncomfortable then there isn't a need for rules to
protect them from predators.
If you're a road block between your kids and what they're trying to
get, then they're vulnerable to someone who says they can give it to
them.
If your kids tell you something and your focus isn't on what they're
saying but on how to get them to think right, then they're vulnerable
to someone who will say "I understand. Tell me about it."
Is that your house?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Joyce your response is wonderful, and I've put it on a new page:
http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety
When checking the links on that new page, I found the following on a
page about discussing sex with kids, and the tale of Marty's
adventures with pornography. But the bit below seemed good for this
discussion. That page is http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety and I'm
going to put a link to the online safety stuff too.
==================================
Msg # From: SandraDodd@...
Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:20 am
My dh has shared that he believes that when the family is unhealthy,
porn more likely beomces an addiction to fill a hole.
I agree. I think it's the same as other "internet dangers." If a
child has nothing else to do and no affirmation of wholeness, the
internet can be an escape from what seems a lack of life. But when
life is big and real and happy, the child will be there, in his own
real life.
Your perspective and style of interacting with your kids is
refreshing and gives me hope.
Thanks. Sometimes when I write those things so plainly I worry that
I'll cause more damage than good in some families. But since things
ARE going so well with my boys (and I hope it stays that way) it
seems worth continuing to share.
Sandra
Anyone who wants to read the rest of that discussion can join this
list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/ and go to
message # 55403 and the responses, or go back two days and see the
original question.
=================================================
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety
When checking the links on that new page, I found the following on a
page about discussing sex with kids, and the tale of Marty's
adventures with pornography. But the bit below seemed good for this
discussion. That page is http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety and I'm
going to put a link to the online safety stuff too.
==================================
Msg # From: SandraDodd@...
Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:20 am
My dh has shared that he believes that when the family is unhealthy,
porn more likely beomces an addiction to fill a hole.
I agree. I think it's the same as other "internet dangers." If a
child has nothing else to do and no affirmation of wholeness, the
internet can be an escape from what seems a lack of life. But when
life is big and real and happy, the child will be there, in his own
real life.
Your perspective and style of interacting with your kids is
refreshing and gives me hope.
Thanks. Sometimes when I write those things so plainly I worry that
I'll cause more damage than good in some families. But since things
ARE going so well with my boys (and I hope it stays that way) it
seems worth continuing to share.
Sandra
Anyone who wants to read the rest of that discussion can join this
list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/ and go to
message # 55403 and the responses, or go back two days and see the
original question.
=================================================
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2006 11:33:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:
http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety
I am so glad to see a discussion about this as we have just began this
journey and are trying to make good choices as parents. So far I have taken the
position that you speak to, My son is smart and as you say, has been taught to
make good choices
Do you know anything about "MY SPACE" I see it is a subject of a coming Dr.
Phill show
My son has just started going there and I am happy that he is sharing what he
finds,
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
http://sandradodd.com/onlinesafety
I am so glad to see a discussion about this as we have just began this
journey and are trying to make good choices as parents. So far I have taken the
position that you speak to, My son is smart and as you say, has been taught to
make good choices
Do you know anything about "MY SPACE" I see it is a subject of a coming Dr.
Phill show
My son has just started going there and I am happy that he is sharing what he
finds,
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>>>>Like being able to talk to thirty people online butnever having human interaction for that day. Like spending time with friends
and never really talking to them because they are all talking on their cell
phones.>>>>>>>>>>>
How can you classify talking to "people" as not having human interaction?
My mom lives a 4 hour drive over a snowy mountain pass away from us. We recently got webcams and now do video chats with her. Is that not "interacting"? Sure we could go back to only exchanging letters with her. Maybe we could even find someone to deliver them by horseback or wagon, just like the good old days! <G>
There is another mom on this list whom I exchanged kid's emails with a couple of years ago. Her dd and mine are now the equivalent of penpals - except they instant message and sometimes video chat. Yes, it started out with me giving my dd's email address to a STRANGER. It has resulted in lots of laughs and both kids learning a little about other parts of the country.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 18, 2006, at 7:16 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
kids safe.
And if a child perceives that a parent isn't being absolutely
straight-up honest, she won't know what to believe after that.
If a parent says IMs lead to being taken away by predators and then
their kids meet kids like my daughter Holly who very safely chat
online and have for years, they might doubt their parents' view of
the world in other ways.
To use a further-off analogy, if a family has told their kids that
Harry Potter books are satanic spellbooks and their children could
summon the devil just by reading them, for one thing they're making
those books WAY (way) more powerful than they are. But when those
children meet kids who have read Harry Potter, dressed up and played
Hogwarts, who own all the DVDs and see the new movies the day they
come out, and when they learn that some of those kids are from very
religious families, many of them good Christians, the children will
stop trusting their parents. And especially if they see families in
which the parents are kind and generous, while their own parents are
being harsh and limiting and punitive, and blaming Jesus... it's a
good way to have them leave the church and not look back.
Kids won't need a predator to come and get them if the parents are
squeezing them out with rules and questionable truths.
[Lars, I'm not suggesting your family is at this point, but there's a
continuum of rules and limits, and as there are principles at work,
principles apply at both ends of the spectrum.]
Sandra
> If you're a road block between your kids and what they're trying toThis might be the most important thing ever written about keeping
> get, then they're vulnerable to someone who says they can give it to
> them.
kids safe.
And if a child perceives that a parent isn't being absolutely
straight-up honest, she won't know what to believe after that.
If a parent says IMs lead to being taken away by predators and then
their kids meet kids like my daughter Holly who very safely chat
online and have for years, they might doubt their parents' view of
the world in other ways.
To use a further-off analogy, if a family has told their kids that
Harry Potter books are satanic spellbooks and their children could
summon the devil just by reading them, for one thing they're making
those books WAY (way) more powerful than they are. But when those
children meet kids who have read Harry Potter, dressed up and played
Hogwarts, who own all the DVDs and see the new movies the day they
come out, and when they learn that some of those kids are from very
religious families, many of them good Christians, the children will
stop trusting their parents. And especially if they see families in
which the parents are kind and generous, while their own parents are
being harsh and limiting and punitive, and blaming Jesus... it's a
good way to have them leave the church and not look back.
Kids won't need a predator to come and get them if the parents are
squeezing them out with rules and questionable truths.
[Lars, I'm not suggesting your family is at this point, but there's a
continuum of rules and limits, and as there are principles at work,
principles apply at both ends of the spectrum.]
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:21 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:
-=-Our children are facing the same situations we did in a different
way as
well as new problems. Like being able to talk to thirty people online
but
never having human interaction for that day.-=-
I think that is human interaction.
They're real, unpredictable people with information and ideas.
Holly even has fun corresponding with bots, trying to figure out what
they're programmed to say.
If I read a book by someone who had great practical ideas, I'm
learning from that person. It's not "interaction" but it's
communication, and a little better than one way if I'm actually
learning as I read. But discussions online are interaction.
I've known some in-person visits that weren't worth the gasoline or
footpower it took to get there, when the people are just the very
same boring way as ever, or they're being mean or dishonest. Better
to be online where you can just close the window if you're not having
any fun.
It's just a different kind of human interaction. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-I hacked but I didn't vandalize - it was a challenge to get intoWell I feel better then. Thanks.
> somewhere
> you weren't supposed to but that is all. The challenge is what
> excited me
> not doing anyone harm.-=-
-=-Our children are facing the same situations we did in a different
way as
well as new problems. Like being able to talk to thirty people online
but
never having human interaction for that day.-=-
I think that is human interaction.
They're real, unpredictable people with information and ideas.
Holly even has fun corresponding with bots, trying to figure out what
they're programmed to say.
If I read a book by someone who had great practical ideas, I'm
learning from that person. It's not "interaction" but it's
communication, and a little better than one way if I'm actually
learning as I read. But discussions online are interaction.
I've known some in-person visits that weren't worth the gasoline or
footpower it took to get there, when the people are just the very
same boring way as ever, or they're being mean or dishonest. Better
to be online where you can just close the window if you're not having
any fun.
It's just a different kind of human interaction. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** And if a child perceives that a parent isn't being absolutely
straight-up honest, she won't know what to believe after that.
If a parent says IMs lead to being taken away by predators and then
their kids meet kids like my daughter Holly who very safely chat
online and have for years, they might doubt their parents' view of
the world in other ways.**
Is the most probably risk of IMing with bad guys the possibility that if
a kid clicks on an unsolicited IM, the "bad guy" correspondent might
make obscene remarks or send dirty pictures? That's what comes to my
mind as the most probable bad thing that could happen. (Not the worst
"bad thing", just the most common one.)
I can imagine making a distinction between being approached by someone
who is a co-participant in a game vs. someone who just pops up out of
the blue. (Yes, game co-participants can also be perverts. I just
think the percentage might be lower.)
We got a fast internet connection a few months ago, and my kid plays
online games. I think I may be a little behind in the safety
discussion, but things are going well so far. (I'm not totally
disengaged, my husband is in the same room gaming much of the time --
I've just let HIM be the one to consider this issue.)
I'm up for more discussion of big risks and little risks.
I figure if *I mostly can't get my kid to leave the house*, no stranger
is gonna know what to offer him to get him thru the front door. <g>
Betsy
PS When I was a curvaceous 15 year old, I got pissed at my family and
went for a 3 mile cross-town walk in a dress and barefoot (in the
afternoon). Two or three men driving by pulled over and offered me
rides and opportunities to go out for coffee. I was not at all tempted
to get in their cars! (I needed to escape my family that day, but I
wasn't stupid.) None of them hit me over the head and dragged me away.
But I realize it could have happened. Happy kids are less likely to be
out there being plump targets for stalkers. I wouldn't have been out
there if I was having a happy day.
straight-up honest, she won't know what to believe after that.
If a parent says IMs lead to being taken away by predators and then
their kids meet kids like my daughter Holly who very safely chat
online and have for years, they might doubt their parents' view of
the world in other ways.**
Is the most probably risk of IMing with bad guys the possibility that if
a kid clicks on an unsolicited IM, the "bad guy" correspondent might
make obscene remarks or send dirty pictures? That's what comes to my
mind as the most probable bad thing that could happen. (Not the worst
"bad thing", just the most common one.)
I can imagine making a distinction between being approached by someone
who is a co-participant in a game vs. someone who just pops up out of
the blue. (Yes, game co-participants can also be perverts. I just
think the percentage might be lower.)
We got a fast internet connection a few months ago, and my kid plays
online games. I think I may be a little behind in the safety
discussion, but things are going well so far. (I'm not totally
disengaged, my husband is in the same room gaming much of the time --
I've just let HIM be the one to consider this issue.)
I'm up for more discussion of big risks and little risks.
I figure if *I mostly can't get my kid to leave the house*, no stranger
is gonna know what to offer him to get him thru the front door. <g>
Betsy
PS When I was a curvaceous 15 year old, I got pissed at my family and
went for a 3 mile cross-town walk in a dress and barefoot (in the
afternoon). Two or three men driving by pulled over and offered me
rides and opportunities to go out for coffee. I was not at all tempted
to get in their cars! (I needed to escape my family that day, but I
wasn't stupid.) None of them hit me over the head and dragged me away.
But I realize it could have happened. Happy kids are less likely to be
out there being plump targets for stalkers. I wouldn't have been out
there if I was having a happy day.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2006 1:21:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
make obscene remarks or send dirty pictures? That's what comes to my
mind as the most probable bad thing that could happen. (Not the worst
"bad thing", just the most common one.)<<
We have had a virus come into our system because someone had IM'd our
daughter with a screen name that looked exactly like our other daughters. It
brought a virus in which sent IM's out from our computers under our names, which
in turn infected others. It was a real mess. There have been some bad virus'
come through IM's.
We now have a rule, don't click on an IM if it looks funny (ie:"Hey, I just
got my pics back..wanna have a look?") or if it's someone you don't
recognize. They have a lot of friends they met online who they IM with though. But
that doesn't have anything to do with online safety, just protection of the
computer!
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
>>Is the most probably risk of IMing with bad guys the possibility that ifa kid clicks on an unsolicited IM, the "bad guy" correspondent might
make obscene remarks or send dirty pictures? That's what comes to my
mind as the most probable bad thing that could happen. (Not the worst
"bad thing", just the most common one.)<<
We have had a virus come into our system because someone had IM'd our
daughter with a screen name that looked exactly like our other daughters. It
brought a virus in which sent IM's out from our computers under our names, which
in turn infected others. It was a real mess. There have been some bad virus'
come through IM's.
We now have a rule, don't click on an IM if it looks funny (ie:"Hey, I just
got my pics back..wanna have a look?") or if it's someone you don't
recognize. They have a lot of friends they met online who they IM with though. But
that doesn't have anything to do with online safety, just protection of the
computer!
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 18, 2006, at 9:39 AM, TheFadels@... wrote:
My kids all have "myspace" pages. Holly was in there first, but
because she's only 14 her page can't be looked at by just anyone.
You have to do a friend request and she has to approve it. Marty
made me a friend from his page (I made a page so I could see
Holly's--), so I can see all of Marty's. And Kirby's over 18 so his
is just public.
From each kid's page you can see their friends, and if you click on
those you can see some or all (depending on their age) of what they
have in there.
For a while Holly said she was 17, but that made me nervous so she
changed it. Then she changed it to 80 (some kids say they're 100, so
it's clear they're not trying to be sneaky). She has it back to 14.
Kirby's is easiest to remember:
http://myspace.com/kirbydodd
and you can get to Holly's and Marty's from there if you want.
Their user names (or whatever they call them) change from time to
time and are sometimes suited to the day or the occasion.
It's goofy kid-humor, so don't go in if you're easily grumpy about
kids having fun.
And yes, there are some people who are suggestive and "talk dirty"
but my kids just feel sorry for them about not having anything real
to discuss. One of our friend's kids has fibbed about his ethnicity,
just for fun I guess. He said East Indian and he's not; then again
he might've changed it by now anyway. They're not like pages people
make and leave along, at least not my kids and their friends. They
put new photos up every few days.
There are quite a few unschoolers in there, too.
Somehow it's just not the same as regular webpages. It's a kidville
kind of place.
Some people use them as blogs, but my kids' friends seem to use them
just as photo places and comment-exchanging excuses.
You might see some of Marty in his super-hero costume, "Above Average
Joe." There's one of Kirby in armor, too. I like that one.
Sandra
> Do you know anything about "MY SPACE" I see it is a subject of aYour post cut off after that comma. Maybe you were done.
> coming Dr.
> Phill show
> My son has just started going there and I am happy that he is
> sharing what he
> finds,
My kids all have "myspace" pages. Holly was in there first, but
because she's only 14 her page can't be looked at by just anyone.
You have to do a friend request and she has to approve it. Marty
made me a friend from his page (I made a page so I could see
Holly's--), so I can see all of Marty's. And Kirby's over 18 so his
is just public.
From each kid's page you can see their friends, and if you click on
those you can see some or all (depending on their age) of what they
have in there.
For a while Holly said she was 17, but that made me nervous so she
changed it. Then she changed it to 80 (some kids say they're 100, so
it's clear they're not trying to be sneaky). She has it back to 14.
Kirby's is easiest to remember:
http://myspace.com/kirbydodd
and you can get to Holly's and Marty's from there if you want.
Their user names (or whatever they call them) change from time to
time and are sometimes suited to the day or the occasion.
It's goofy kid-humor, so don't go in if you're easily grumpy about
kids having fun.
And yes, there are some people who are suggestive and "talk dirty"
but my kids just feel sorry for them about not having anything real
to discuss. One of our friend's kids has fibbed about his ethnicity,
just for fun I guess. He said East Indian and he's not; then again
he might've changed it by now anyway. They're not like pages people
make and leave along, at least not my kids and their friends. They
put new photos up every few days.
There are quite a few unschoolers in there, too.
Somehow it's just not the same as regular webpages. It's a kidville
kind of place.
Some people use them as blogs, but my kids' friends seem to use them
just as photo places and comment-exchanging excuses.
You might see some of Marty in his super-hero costume, "Above Average
Joe." There's one of Kirby in armor, too. I like that one.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think the worrisome thing about "myspace" is that it's
searchable in
a classifieds sort of way--by age (18+), gender, marital status
("swinger" is one category), orientation, etc., which seems to point
toward the site's original intent . . . I imagine some grown-ups
searching there are surprised to find children.
-=-
I received that off the list.
The purpose of the list, though, is to have discussion out where
others can read and consider, so I've brought it here.
Bowlings alleys and movie theaters were originally intended for
adults too. The bowling alley near us serves beer. Yet I let my
kids go there.
I don't see that as a worrisome thing about myspace. My kids have
lived their lives in a world that has people of all ages, genders,
marital status and orientation. They've even known swingers (though
I doubt they were aware of it).
The kids say that Neopets was originally aimed at older teens, but
younger kids liked it best and it's moved more toward their preferences.
Probably AOL and yahoo profiles are searchable by gender, marital
status, orientation, etc. My kids have been online for a long time
and haven't had problems.
It's hard to take super-cautious fears seriously, as those are
theories and our lives are lived out whole. Someone THINKS a child
wouldn't be safe if, but I know my children have been safe for years.
It's not a dark alley in a foreign town. It's my own kids, in my
house, sitting in their own rooms, or at the kitchen table, or in the
den.
If a parent says "Don't look behind that door," that's where the
child will want to look when the opportunity presents itself. Kids
told "Feel free to poke around" will not become obsessed with any
forbidden areas.
Lots of literature is based on "Don't look there" or "don't touch
that," starting with Adam and Eve.
Pandora.
Disney's Beauty and the Beast. <g> (not the original)
Five Children and It.
Let's just make a list.
Sandra
searchable in
a classifieds sort of way--by age (18+), gender, marital status
("swinger" is one category), orientation, etc., which seems to point
toward the site's original intent . . . I imagine some grown-ups
searching there are surprised to find children.
-=-
I received that off the list.
The purpose of the list, though, is to have discussion out where
others can read and consider, so I've brought it here.
Bowlings alleys and movie theaters were originally intended for
adults too. The bowling alley near us serves beer. Yet I let my
kids go there.
I don't see that as a worrisome thing about myspace. My kids have
lived their lives in a world that has people of all ages, genders,
marital status and orientation. They've even known swingers (though
I doubt they were aware of it).
The kids say that Neopets was originally aimed at older teens, but
younger kids liked it best and it's moved more toward their preferences.
Probably AOL and yahoo profiles are searchable by gender, marital
status, orientation, etc. My kids have been online for a long time
and haven't had problems.
It's hard to take super-cautious fears seriously, as those are
theories and our lives are lived out whole. Someone THINKS a child
wouldn't be safe if, but I know my children have been safe for years.
It's not a dark alley in a foreign town. It's my own kids, in my
house, sitting in their own rooms, or at the kitchen table, or in the
den.
If a parent says "Don't look behind that door," that's where the
child will want to look when the opportunity presents itself. Kids
told "Feel free to poke around" will not become obsessed with any
forbidden areas.
Lots of literature is based on "Don't look there" or "don't touch
that," starting with Adam and Eve.
Pandora.
Disney's Beauty and the Beast. <g> (not the original)
Five Children and It.
Let's just make a list.
Sandra
[email protected]
**I've got to weigh in here. I've thought long and hard about our kids and
exchange students having access to IM over the years. At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met them in
person first.
The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of. **
My kids know that if they meet someone online and decide they'd like to get
together in real life, I'll do my very best to help make it happen. We've
driven across states to meet up with families in their homes who we only know from
online until we get there.
A predator would have a really really REALLY hard time getting my kid into a
situation they could be taken advantage of. A kid who isn't supposed to talk
to anyone they don't know has much incentive to agree to sneak out to meet that
person - the parent isn't going to agree because the kid was breaking the ru
les. They're easy prey. My kids, on the other hand, know that they can ask and
I'll drive them to a safe meeting. If the "friend" said "Oh no, don't tell
your mom" that's a huge red flag for them.
We've had some experience with abuse and predation attempts however. Both
were people in our community, introduced to us, in person, by people we trusted.
Deborah in IL
exchange students having access to IM over the years. At the moment, our
house rule is that you can chat with someone, so long as you've met them in
person first.
The reason for this is pretty basic: There are predators out there who
devote a great deal of time, energy, experience and effort to luring kids
into situations where they can be taken advantage of. **
My kids know that if they meet someone online and decide they'd like to get
together in real life, I'll do my very best to help make it happen. We've
driven across states to meet up with families in their homes who we only know from
online until we get there.
A predator would have a really really REALLY hard time getting my kid into a
situation they could be taken advantage of. A kid who isn't supposed to talk
to anyone they don't know has much incentive to agree to sneak out to meet that
person - the parent isn't going to agree because the kid was breaking the ru
les. They're easy prey. My kids, on the other hand, know that they can ask and
I'll drive them to a safe meeting. If the "friend" said "Oh no, don't tell
your mom" that's a huge red flag for them.
We've had some experience with abuse and predation attempts however. Both
were people in our community, introduced to us, in person, by people we trusted.
Deborah in IL
Katy Jennings
<<<<<Five Children and It.
Let's just make a list.
Sandra>>>>>>>
A while back Sandra wrote something about Holly watching this movie, so I looked it up at Netflix. I found that there are 2 movies with that name, one is "Five Children and It" and one is "5 Children and It," and the latter has a sequel called "Return of It." I added all 3 to my queue.
Just an aside...
Katy J. in Southern NM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's just make a list.
Sandra>>>>>>>
A while back Sandra wrote something about Holly watching this movie, so I looked it up at Netflix. I found that there are 2 movies with that name, one is "Five Children and It" and one is "5 Children and It," and the latter has a sequel called "Return of It." I added all 3 to my queue.
Just an aside...
Katy J. in Southern NM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 18, 2006, at 2:28 PM, DACunefare@... wrote:
Marty was going to meet a girl at the mall, when he was 13 or 14. He
had met her online, on a role playing game. He was nervous. He took
a friend with him, and she took a friend with her. They found each
other and hung out a while. There was no problem, except that she
wasn't as interesting in person as she had been online, or maybe
Marty didn't seem interesting enough to her or something. So they
hung out an hour or so and politely said see you online or some such,
and Marty called for a ride home.
A woman who also knew them from that game came to town from
California. She was 30ish and had not much social life other than
that game, because she had a severely disabled daughter who was ten
or so and so had been taking care of her (single mom) for years, and
this was her first vacation. I gave the kids some warnings, and they
were never alone with her. She brought them gifts--and kind of
expensive gifts. She brought one of the boys a backpacking guitar,
and she brought Kirby an embroidered shirt and something (I forget),
but basically had bought two gifts each for four teenaged boys.
Partly I felt sorry for her, partly I was glad the boys had been
enough fun online that she wanted to meet them, and partly I didn't
trust her. But it was all fine.
Sandra
> My kids know that if they meet someone online and decide they'd==============
> like to get
> together in real life, I'll do my very best to help make it happen.
> We've
> driven across states to meet up with families in their homes who we
> only know from
> online until we get there.
Marty was going to meet a girl at the mall, when he was 13 or 14. He
had met her online, on a role playing game. He was nervous. He took
a friend with him, and she took a friend with her. They found each
other and hung out a while. There was no problem, except that she
wasn't as interesting in person as she had been online, or maybe
Marty didn't seem interesting enough to her or something. So they
hung out an hour or so and politely said see you online or some such,
and Marty called for a ride home.
A woman who also knew them from that game came to town from
California. She was 30ish and had not much social life other than
that game, because she had a severely disabled daughter who was ten
or so and so had been taking care of her (single mom) for years, and
this was her first vacation. I gave the kids some warnings, and they
were never alone with her. She brought them gifts--and kind of
expensive gifts. She brought one of the boys a backpacking guitar,
and she brought Kirby an embroidered shirt and something (I forget),
but basically had bought two gifts each for four teenaged boys.
Partly I felt sorry for her, partly I was glad the boys had been
enough fun online that she wanted to meet them, and partly I didn't
trust her. But it was all fine.
Sandra
Schuyler Waynforth
We (Simon, Linnaea and I) play on toontown.co.uk. I really enjoy how
much comes across about other players based on limited, pre-scripted
conversations. On toontown you can only talk to those people you
know, so you exchange a secret code that toontown gives you and off
the game and that allows you to chat directly with the person you
exchanged the code with. With those individuals you don't know you
cannot have any conversation outside of the phrases that toontown
allots.
Anyhow, it is clearly a human interaction. The game makes it
essential that you work with others. Linnaea likes to make friends.
Simon likes to make powerful friends. I tend to like to work with
other people, but not necessarily to befriend them. We have a local
friend who plays the game, both Linnaea and Simon will rush to her
aid, but she is less likely to help them when it isn't specifically
helpful to her. One player that Linnaea befriended the other day has
given her gifts. Linnaea's favorite thing to do is to go over to
other people's houses and try on their clothes (in the game--in person
too, I suppose). It seems a strange license to me, but she really
enjoys it. And other players seem to enjoy doing the same thing, but
it varies.
It is fascinating to watch these semi-virtual relationships play out.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
much comes across about other players based on limited, pre-scripted
conversations. On toontown you can only talk to those people you
know, so you exchange a secret code that toontown gives you and off
the game and that allows you to chat directly with the person you
exchanged the code with. With those individuals you don't know you
cannot have any conversation outside of the phrases that toontown
allots.
Anyhow, it is clearly a human interaction. The game makes it
essential that you work with others. Linnaea likes to make friends.
Simon likes to make powerful friends. I tend to like to work with
other people, but not necessarily to befriend them. We have a local
friend who plays the game, both Linnaea and Simon will rush to her
aid, but she is less likely to help them when it isn't specifically
helpful to her. One player that Linnaea befriended the other day has
given her gifts. Linnaea's favorite thing to do is to go over to
other people's houses and try on their clothes (in the game--in person
too, I suppose). It seems a strange license to me, but she really
enjoys it. And other players seem to enjoy doing the same thing, but
it varies.
It is fascinating to watch these semi-virtual relationships play out.
Schuyler
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:21 AM, S Drag-teine wrote:
>
> > -=-I hacked but I didn't vandalize - it was a challenge to get into
> > somewhere
> > you weren't supposed to but that is all. The challenge is what
> > excited me
> > not doing anyone harm.-=-
>
>
> Well I feel better then. Thanks.
>
> -=-Our children are facing the same situations we did in a different
> way as
> well as new problems. Like being able to talk to thirty people online
> but
> never having human interaction for that day.-=-
>
>
> I think that is human interaction.
> They're real, unpredictable people with information and ideas.
>
> Holly even has fun corresponding with bots, trying to figure out what
> they're programmed to say.
>
> If I read a book by someone who had great practical ideas, I'm
> learning from that person. It's not "interaction" but it's
> communication, and a little better than one way if I'm actually
> learning as I read. But discussions online are interaction.
>
> I've known some in-person visits that weren't worth the gasoline or
> footpower it took to get there, when the people are just the very
> same boring way as ever, or they're being mean or dishonest. Better
> to be online where you can just close the window if you're not having
> any fun.
>
> It's just a different kind of human interaction. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Schuyler Waynforth
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
Fantasticks "Never Say No". The premise is that two neighbors want
their children to marry each other. In trying to figure out how to
get them to marry they conclude the best way is to tell them not to
ever be together. The lyrics are here:
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/thefantasticks/neversayno.htm
Schuyler
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
>One of my favorite songs when I was a child was from the musical The
> If a parent says "Don't look behind that door," that's where the
> child will want to look when the opportunity presents itself. Kids
> told "Feel free to poke around" will not become obsessed with any
> forbidden areas.
>
> Lots of literature is based on "Don't look there" or "don't touch
> that," starting with Adam and Eve.
> Pandora.
> Disney's Beauty and the Beast. <g> (not the original)
> Five Children and It.
>
> Let's just make a list.
>
> Sandra
>
Fantasticks "Never Say No". The premise is that two neighbors want
their children to marry each other. In trying to figure out how to
get them to marry they conclude the best way is to tell them not to
ever be together. The lyrics are here:
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/thefantasticks/neversayno.htm
Schuyler
elainegh8
Five children and it was a book first by E Nesbit. I think she wrote
the Railway Children and quite a few other books as well. Five
children and it was also a brilliant series by the BBC.
BWs Elaine
the Railway Children and quite a few other books as well. Five
children and it was also a brilliant series by the BBC.
BWs Elaine