Forced discussion vs. genuine
Kathy Stamp
I was in Target the other morning shopping. There was a lady shopping with her I would guess about 3-4 year old.
I passed her three different times while shopping and this is what I overheard....
"You're doing so GREAT!!!!!. Let's keep going"
"Fabulous choice. You picked out a really great card!!"
"Now we have to go buy detergent, so that we can wash our clothes. That way if you get paint or glue on them at preschool we can get them clean. Hop on the back of the cart and let's go."
Now the little boy never said anything, during the entire time I saw them. Maybe he just can't yet talk. He had a glazed over look on his face. Yes..only my observation I know....
I know that she was following the advice of some experts like "super nanny" to engage him in the process, to keep him from melting down or such. But the whole conversation was very unnatural. She seemed to speak extra loud (although I don't believe the child was hard of hearing), perhaps for the benefit of other's to hear, or maybe just because she was trying to keep his attention. I remember John Holt once mentioning in a book, about commenting on what you're doing "now we'll put on the coat and zip it up" etc., but he also mentioned that it had to be natural.
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer questions, be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort of curious.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I passed her three different times while shopping and this is what I overheard....
"You're doing so GREAT!!!!!. Let's keep going"
"Fabulous choice. You picked out a really great card!!"
"Now we have to go buy detergent, so that we can wash our clothes. That way if you get paint or glue on them at preschool we can get them clean. Hop on the back of the cart and let's go."
Now the little boy never said anything, during the entire time I saw them. Maybe he just can't yet talk. He had a glazed over look on his face. Yes..only my observation I know....
I know that she was following the advice of some experts like "super nanny" to engage him in the process, to keep him from melting down or such. But the whole conversation was very unnatural. She seemed to speak extra loud (although I don't believe the child was hard of hearing), perhaps for the benefit of other's to hear, or maybe just because she was trying to keep his attention. I remember John Holt once mentioning in a book, about commenting on what you're doing "now we'll put on the coat and zip it up" etc., but he also mentioned that it had to be natural.
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer questions, be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort of curious.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Kathy Stamp"
<bstamp@c...> wrote:
them clean. Hop on the back of the cart and let's go."
know more of what was going on in between those snippets and in
general. Obviously, the high, 'poodle voice' (as Sandra calls it,
fits well) is out but often with my DS at that age a running stream
of chat was how we made it through a shopping trip - it provided a
bridge for him from one thing to the next because transitions are
tough for him in general. Over the top "Fabulous!" was not one of my
choices but things like "Oh that looks like a great choice - I bet
<grandma, grandpa, cousin T...> will love it" I probably would leave
out the discussion of -why- we need detergent unless he asked
(because he helped out with laundry anyhow by then and knew what
detergent was) but I'd often say 'Okay now we need laundry
detergent, hop on and let's go find it' or something similar. Also,
I'd make sure to leave space in the commentary for his input - some
talk, some quiet space so he could just be or ask something or
comment or whatever.
--Deb
<bstamp@c...> wrote:
>shopping with her I would guess about 3-4 year old.
> I was in Target the other morning shopping. There was a lady
>I overheard....
> I passed her three different times while shopping and this is what
>That way if you get paint or glue on them at preschool we can get
> "You're doing so GREAT!!!!!. Let's keep going"
>
> "Fabulous choice. You picked out a really great card!!"
>
> "Now we have to go buy detergent, so that we can wash our clothes.
them clean. Hop on the back of the cart and let's go."
>I tend to do the latter too but in the situation given, I'd want to
>> I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity.
>Forced teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include
>and engage our children in the activities we are doing. But is
>forced or almost scripted conversation good with younger children,
>or is better to just answer questions, be genuine, share your own
>thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort of curious.
>
know more of what was going on in between those snippets and in
general. Obviously, the high, 'poodle voice' (as Sandra calls it,
fits well) is out but often with my DS at that age a running stream
of chat was how we made it through a shopping trip - it provided a
bridge for him from one thing to the next because transitions are
tough for him in general. Over the top "Fabulous!" was not one of my
choices but things like "Oh that looks like a great choice - I bet
<grandma, grandpa, cousin T...> will love it" I probably would leave
out the discussion of -why- we need detergent unless he asked
(because he helped out with laundry anyhow by then and knew what
detergent was) but I'd often say 'Okay now we need laundry
detergent, hop on and let's go find it' or something similar. Also,
I'd make sure to leave space in the commentary for his input - some
talk, some quiet space so he could just be or ask something or
comment or whatever.
--Deb
Su Penn
Sounds to me like that mom and her kid were doing fine. That "glazed"
look might just have been tiredness. I heard a lot of assumptions and
judgment in your assessment of what this woman was doing with her
son: that is, assuming that she was doing something artificial (that
didn't come naturally to her) on the advice of some expert she might
never have heard of, and assuming because of the look on his face and
how you interpreted that look, that it wasn't connecting with him.
She might have been speaking in a voice that sounded unnatural to
you, and giving more information than you would have given, but I
would have to interact with this family a lot more before I assumed
she was faking it or that he wasn't happily responsive to her chatter.
There are other ways to interpret the things you report her saying.
For instance, before I read your interpretation, I took her
explanation about detergent (so they could get his clothes clean if
he got paint or glue on them) as a nice affirmation on her part that
getting messy was OK! Then I read your interpretation and thought,
"Oh, I was supposed to think something negative about this mom!"
So, my response is: not enough data to draw a firm conclusion.
Su
look might just have been tiredness. I heard a lot of assumptions and
judgment in your assessment of what this woman was doing with her
son: that is, assuming that she was doing something artificial (that
didn't come naturally to her) on the advice of some expert she might
never have heard of, and assuming because of the look on his face and
how you interpreted that look, that it wasn't connecting with him.
She might have been speaking in a voice that sounded unnatural to
you, and giving more information than you would have given, but I
would have to interact with this family a lot more before I assumed
she was faking it or that he wasn't happily responsive to her chatter.
There are other ways to interpret the things you report her saying.
For instance, before I read your interpretation, I took her
explanation about detergent (so they could get his clothes clean if
he got paint or glue on them) as a nice affirmation on her part that
getting messy was OK! Then I read your interpretation and thought,
"Oh, I was supposed to think something negative about this mom!"
So, my response is: not enough data to draw a firm conclusion.
Su
On Dec 6, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Kathy Stamp wrote:
> Now the little boy never said anything, during the entire time I
> saw them. Maybe he just can't yet talk. He had a glazed over look
> on his face. Yes..only my observation I know....
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/6/2005 2:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bstamp@... writes:
I know that she was following the advice of some experts like "super nanny"
to engage him in the process, to keep him from melting down or such. But the
whole conversation was very unnatural. She seemed to speak extra loud
(although I don't believe the child was hard of hearing), perhaps for the benefit of
other's to hear, or maybe just because she was trying to keep his attention.
I remember John Holt once mentioning in a book, about commenting on what
you're doing "now we'll put on the coat and zip it up" etc., but he also
mentioned that it had to be natural.
Maybe it was natural for that family. When my children were very young, I
often got "looks" and occasionally someone felt the need to tell me that my
child didn't have a "clue" what I was talking about so why was I doing it?
The one time that clearly sticks out in memory was my oldest was maybe 2,
sitting in her stroller and we were clothes shopping for her. I knew it
couldn't be much fun and I was trying to engage her in conversation to make it a
bit more pleasant. I would hold up outfits and ask her which she liked better;
this one or this one? I clearly thought she was responding and making
choices but a "better" mother took the time to inform me that I was just being
ridiculous that she had no idea what I was talking about and I was wasting my
time.
Uh, OK, but short snippets of people's lives are rarely enough to make
profound judgments, especially when it's not something that "appears" at to be
harmful.
What is normal anyway? What's a "normal" voice for one Mom might seem very
animated to another Mom.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bstamp@... writes:
I know that she was following the advice of some experts like "super nanny"
to engage him in the process, to keep him from melting down or such. But the
whole conversation was very unnatural. She seemed to speak extra loud
(although I don't believe the child was hard of hearing), perhaps for the benefit of
other's to hear, or maybe just because she was trying to keep his attention.
I remember John Holt once mentioning in a book, about commenting on what
you're doing "now we'll put on the coat and zip it up" etc., but he also
mentioned that it had to be natural.
Maybe it was natural for that family. When my children were very young, I
often got "looks" and occasionally someone felt the need to tell me that my
child didn't have a "clue" what I was talking about so why was I doing it?
The one time that clearly sticks out in memory was my oldest was maybe 2,
sitting in her stroller and we were clothes shopping for her. I knew it
couldn't be much fun and I was trying to engage her in conversation to make it a
bit more pleasant. I would hold up outfits and ask her which she liked better;
this one or this one? I clearly thought she was responding and making
choices but a "better" mother took the time to inform me that I was just being
ridiculous that she had no idea what I was talking about and I was wasting my
time.
Uh, OK, but short snippets of people's lives are rarely enough to make
profound judgments, especially when it's not something that "appears" at to be
harmful.
What is normal anyway? What's a "normal" voice for one Mom might seem very
animated to another Mom.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathy Stamp
I clearly said it was" only my observation I know...".
I can see where my poor wording choice saying SHE was following some experts opinions meant I assumed she was. But that honestly was not what my words meant. I mean that I know some experts agree with this type of conversation and whether it was her own idea to do it or the experts was really not what I was getting at.
I wasn't thinking negative things towards her really. Actually at the time I did say to myself, hey she seems like a concerned mom who was trying to engage her child.
But from the tone of voice, it seemed UNnatural. Doesn't mean it was wrong or that it was right. It JUST seemed unnatural to me which then made me pause to think on it and wonder if it was truly unnatural then is that kind of forced discussion a good thing for our young children.
Situations make us think lots of things, and it was just something I thought about as I left and later at home and wanted to see what others thought.
I didn't mean anything negative. I looked at as something to discuss. Whether that type of one sided conversation if it is unnatural is a good thing.
Kathy
I can see where my poor wording choice saying SHE was following some experts opinions meant I assumed she was. But that honestly was not what my words meant. I mean that I know some experts agree with this type of conversation and whether it was her own idea to do it or the experts was really not what I was getting at.
I wasn't thinking negative things towards her really. Actually at the time I did say to myself, hey she seems like a concerned mom who was trying to engage her child.
But from the tone of voice, it seemed UNnatural. Doesn't mean it was wrong or that it was right. It JUST seemed unnatural to me which then made me pause to think on it and wonder if it was truly unnatural then is that kind of forced discussion a good thing for our young children.
Situations make us think lots of things, and it was just something I thought about as I left and later at home and wanted to see what others thought.
I didn't mean anything negative. I looked at as something to discuss. Whether that type of one sided conversation if it is unnatural is a good thing.
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: Su Penn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Forced discussion vs. genuine
Sounds to me like that mom and her kid were doing fine. That "glazed"
look might just have been tiredness. I heard a lot of assumptions and
judgment in your assessment of what this woman was doing with her
son: that is, assuming that she was doing something artificial (that
didn't come naturally to her) on the advice of some expert she might
never have heard of, and assuming because of the look on his face and
how you interpreted that look, that it wasn't connecting with him.
She might have been speaking in a voice that sounded unnatural to
you, and giving more information than you would have given, but I
would have to interact with this family a lot more before I assumed
she was faking it or that he wasn't happily responsive to her chatter.
There are other ways to interpret the things you report her saying.
For instance, before I read your interpretation, I took her
explanation about detergent (so they could get his clothes clean if
he got paint or glue on them) as a nice affirmation on her part that
getting messy was OK! Then I read your interpretation and thought,
"Oh, I was supposed to think something negative about this mom!"
So, my response is: not enough data to draw a firm conclusion.
Su
On Dec 6, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Kathy Stamp wrote:
> Now the little boy never said anything, during the entire time I
> saw them. Maybe he just can't yet talk. He had a glazed over look
> on his face. Yes..only my observation I know....
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Kathy Stamp wrote:
Some people just don't have the interpersonal skills God gave a
donut, and that's a sad thing.
Some people have the potential to do better, but they grew up without
good models and experiences and they're making it up on the fly.
Some do better at that than others.
Some people just don't have much facility with being natural, meaning
in this instance (my meaning, I mean) calm and sincere and
conversational.
Keith's mom writes the most stilted letters in the world. No human
talks that way. She doesn't talk that way. But she writes that
way. Some people kinda speak in an unnatural way too... I think I
know what you might mean by unnatural. Like a script, without regard
to the other person's responses.
If it was one sided it wasn't much of a discussion at all.
Sandra
> But from the tone of voice, it seemed UNnatural. Doesn't mean it===========================
> was wrong or that it was right. It JUST seemed unnatural to me
> which then made me pause to think on it and wonder if it was truly
> unnatural then is that kind of forced discussion a good thing for
> our young children.
Some people just don't have the interpersonal skills God gave a
donut, and that's a sad thing.
Some people have the potential to do better, but they grew up without
good models and experiences and they're making it up on the fly.
Some do better at that than others.
Some people just don't have much facility with being natural, meaning
in this instance (my meaning, I mean) calm and sincere and
conversational.
Keith's mom writes the most stilted letters in the world. No human
talks that way. She doesn't talk that way. But she writes that
way. Some people kinda speak in an unnatural way too... I think I
know what you might mean by unnatural. Like a script, without regard
to the other person's responses.
If it was one sided it wasn't much of a discussion at all.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
On Dec 6, 2005, at 9:54 AM, Kathy Stamp wrote:
I just thought of another time I've seen people do this and why (I
thought, at the time) they were.
If someone has been considered a bad mom and she's working to change,
sometimes she wants others to SEE that. I dealt for a while with a
couple of moms who had been accused of child neglect, and had later
children and parented them BLATANTLY and **GENTLY** (LOUDLY gently
<g>).
I'm not at all saying you witnessed a recovering bad mom, but that it
reminds me of a couple of times people were (seemingly) showing off
for others around them.
But maybe this mom was just self conscious and not good with kids yet
and wasn't seeing other people being natural and conversational in
real kid-terms with real kids.
Sandra, blathering, sorry
> I know that she was following the advice of some experts like----------------------------------------
> "super nanny" to engage him in the process, to keep him from
> melting down or such. But the whole conversation was very
> unnatural. She seemed to speak extra loud (although I don't believe
> the child was hard of hearing), perhaps for the benefit of other's
> to hear, or maybe just because she was trying to keep his attention
I just thought of another time I've seen people do this and why (I
thought, at the time) they were.
If someone has been considered a bad mom and she's working to change,
sometimes she wants others to SEE that. I dealt for a while with a
couple of moms who had been accused of child neglect, and had later
children and parented them BLATANTLY and **GENTLY** (LOUDLY gently
<g>).
I'm not at all saying you witnessed a recovering bad mom, but that it
reminds me of a couple of times people were (seemingly) showing off
for others around them.
But maybe this mom was just self conscious and not good with kids yet
and wasn't seeing other people being natural and conversational in
real kid-terms with real kids.
Sandra, blathering, sorry
Kathleen Whitfield
I hear that kind of thing all the time where I live (LA), where many people
are trying to be the Perfect Mom, Perfect Wife, Perfect Fill-in-the-Blank --
and let everyone elseknow how perfect they are.
Kathleen
on 12/6/05 3:54 PM, Sandra Dodd at Sandra@... wrote:
<I'm not at all saying you witnessed a recovering bad mom, but that it
<reminds me of a couple of times people were (seemingly) showing off
<for others around them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
are trying to be the Perfect Mom, Perfect Wife, Perfect Fill-in-the-Blank --
and let everyone elseknow how perfect they are.
Kathleen
on 12/6/05 3:54 PM, Sandra Dodd at Sandra@... wrote:
<I'm not at all saying you witnessed a recovering bad mom, but that it
<reminds me of a couple of times people were (seemingly) showing off
<for others around them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Stamp bstamp@...
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced
teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our
children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted
conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer questions,
be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort of
curious.
-=-=-=-=--
Depends. <g>
I call it thinking out loud (and more often math-out-loud).
I do it a LOT when figuring math---out loud rather than in my head---that way my kids can see that I have to *think* about it---that it doesn't just *appear*, but that i work to get to that answer. I do it at the beach: "Why are the sea gulls in Boston darker than the sea gulls in SC?" "I wonder why they chose to use red paper here rather than blue---the blue would have shown off the ____ better." "If I run by the bank first, I can have plenty for lunch AND that frame..."
Ben teases me about how MUCH I talk out loud! <G> I have running conversations with myself all day. It's how I think through things and make sure things get done. I'm sure many of you saw me doing that at the conference! <bwg> I just chat away at myself!
But I specifically do it when I'm with my (when-they-were-younger) boys (they're not so keen on it any more---they'd rather I think to myself more! <g>). But it helped them to *see* what I was thinking or how I came up with the reasons why/where/how to do something.
Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing or thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.
Chatty, chatty me,
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Kathy Stamp bstamp@...
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced
teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our
children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted
conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer questions,
be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort of
curious.
-=-=-=-=--
Depends. <g>
I call it thinking out loud (and more often math-out-loud).
I do it a LOT when figuring math---out loud rather than in my head---that way my kids can see that I have to *think* about it---that it doesn't just *appear*, but that i work to get to that answer. I do it at the beach: "Why are the sea gulls in Boston darker than the sea gulls in SC?" "I wonder why they chose to use red paper here rather than blue---the blue would have shown off the ____ better." "If I run by the bank first, I can have plenty for lunch AND that frame..."
Ben teases me about how MUCH I talk out loud! <G> I have running conversations with myself all day. It's how I think through things and make sure things get done. I'm sure many of you saw me doing that at the conference! <bwg> I just chat away at myself!
But I specifically do it when I'm with my (when-they-were-younger) boys (they're not so keen on it any more---they'd rather I think to myself more! <g>). But it helped them to *see* what I was thinking or how I came up with the reasons why/where/how to do something.
Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing or thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.
Chatty, chatty me,
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
<<Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing
or thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what
process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with
day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.>>
I have no idea if the mom in the store sounded unnatural or not, but I
always talked to my kids when they were little about what I was doing and it
seemed very natural to me. (I think my mom did the same thing) Both my
kids talked very young and understood speech very young and I attribute a
great deal of that to the fact that I talked to them a lot.
Angela
Game-enthusiast@...
or thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what
process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with
day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.>>
I have no idea if the mom in the store sounded unnatural or not, but I
always talked to my kids when they were little about what I was doing and it
seemed very natural to me. (I think my mom did the same thing) Both my
kids talked very young and understood speech very young and I attribute a
great deal of that to the fact that I talked to them a lot.
Angela
Game-enthusiast@...
Debi
This reminds me of the story of the young mother pushing her fussy child
in a shopping cart through a crowded grocery store. She kept up a
running monolog (Ha! I accidentally typed "momolog" -- that works,
too!) while she flung in the groceries -- "Just one more aisle, Jennifer
... I just have to get the meat while it's still on sale... there's
the milk ... we just have to get through the line. It'll only be a few
more minutes, Jennifer. You're doing great" kind of thing. An older
gentleman observed this, and complimented her parenting; her calming
tone; the care she was taking to try and distract the impatient
toddler. Then he turned to the little girl.
"See, Jennifer? That wasn't so bad, was it?"
The young mom sheepishly corrected him. "Ummmm.... *I*'m Jennifer..."
Well, it was a lot funnier before I knew about respectful parenting, and
NOT dragging your little ones through the store....
Debi, learning... (It's okay, Debi. You're doing fine...)
Sandra Dodd wrote:
in a shopping cart through a crowded grocery store. She kept up a
running monolog (Ha! I accidentally typed "momolog" -- that works,
too!) while she flung in the groceries -- "Just one more aisle, Jennifer
... I just have to get the meat while it's still on sale... there's
the milk ... we just have to get through the line. It'll only be a few
more minutes, Jennifer. You're doing great" kind of thing. An older
gentleman observed this, and complimented her parenting; her calming
tone; the care she was taking to try and distract the impatient
toddler. Then he turned to the little girl.
"See, Jennifer? That wasn't so bad, was it?"
The young mom sheepishly corrected him. "Ummmm.... *I*'m Jennifer..."
Well, it was a lot funnier before I knew about respectful parenting, and
NOT dragging your little ones through the store....
Debi, learning... (It's okay, Debi. You're doing fine...)
Sandra Dodd wrote:
> (snip)
>
>If someone has been considered a bad mom and she's working to change,
>sometimes she wants others to SEE that. I dealt for a while with a
>couple of moms who had been accused of child neglect, and had later
>children and parented them BLATANTLY and **GENTLY** (LOUDLY gently
><g>).
>
>I'm not at all saying you witnessed a recovering bad mom, but that it
>reminds me of a couple of times people were (seemingly) showing off
>for others around them.
>
>But maybe this mom was just self conscious and not good with kids yet
>and wasn't seeing other people being natural and conversational in
>real kid-terms with real kids.
>
>Sandra, blathering, sorry
>
>
Sylvia Toyama
Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing or thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.
****
I've always talked to mine in the thinking out loud mode. It's something my Mom and sister did/do, too. My Mom's grandpa used to tell her that kids should be talked to just like all people (not baby talk) from infancy to adulthood. He was convinced that conversation with adults is how kids learned. It's just always been the way we in our family talk to kids. Lots of running commentary. Like Kelly, I do it to help my kids see my thought process and what's involved.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
I've always talked to mine in the thinking out loud mode. It's something my Mom and sister did/do, too. My Mom's grandpa used to tell her that kids should be talked to just like all people (not baby talk) from infancy to adulthood. He was convinced that conversation with adults is how kids learned. It's just always been the way we in our family talk to kids. Lots of running commentary. Like Kelly, I do it to help my kids see my thought process and what's involved.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April
I think out loud all the time! I miss having small children to take to the
store...I didn't get quite so many strange looks when I kept up a running
commentary on my progress. Now, more often than not, I go to the store alone
and I can't seem to break the 'thinking out loud' habit. People are
beginning to wonder! ;)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Forced discussion vs. genuine
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Stamp bstamp@...
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced
teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our
children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted
conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer
questions,
be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort
of
curious.
-=-=-=-=--
Depends. <g>
I call it thinking out loud (and more often math-out-loud).
I do it a LOT when figuring math---out loud rather than in my head---that
way my kids can see that I have to *think* about it---that it doesn't just
*appear*, but that i work to get to that answer. I do it at the beach: "Why
are the sea gulls in Boston darker than the sea gulls in SC?" "I wonder why
they chose to use red paper here rather than blue---the blue would have
shown off the ____ better." "If I run by the bank first, I can have plenty
for lunch AND that frame..."
Ben teases me about how MUCH I talk out loud! <G> I have running
conversations with myself all day. It's how I think through things and make
sure things get done. I'm sure many of you saw me doing that at the
conference! <bwg> I just chat away at myself!
But I specifically do it when I'm with my (when-they-were-younger) boys
(they're not so keen on it any more---they'd rather I think to myself more!
<g>). But it helped them to *see* what I was thinking or how I came up with
the reasons why/where/how to do something.
Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing or
thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what
process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with
day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.
Chatty, chatty me,
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
store...I didn't get quite so many strange looks when I kept up a running
commentary on my progress. Now, more often than not, I go to the store alone
and I can't seem to break the 'thinking out loud' habit. People are
beginning to wonder! ;)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Forced discussion vs. genuine
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Stamp bstamp@...
I'm just wondering what you think about this type of activity. Forced
teaching/conversation. Obviously it's wonderful to include and engage our
children in the activities we are doing. But is forced or almost scripted
conversation good with younger children, or is better to just answer
questions,
be genuine, share your own thoughts etc. I tend to do the latter. Just sort
of
curious.
-=-=-=-=--
Depends. <g>
I call it thinking out loud (and more often math-out-loud).
I do it a LOT when figuring math---out loud rather than in my head---that
way my kids can see that I have to *think* about it---that it doesn't just
*appear*, but that i work to get to that answer. I do it at the beach: "Why
are the sea gulls in Boston darker than the sea gulls in SC?" "I wonder why
they chose to use red paper here rather than blue---the blue would have
shown off the ____ better." "If I run by the bank first, I can have plenty
for lunch AND that frame..."
Ben teases me about how MUCH I talk out loud! <G> I have running
conversations with myself all day. It's how I think through things and make
sure things get done. I'm sure many of you saw me doing that at the
conference! <bwg> I just chat away at myself!
But I specifically do it when I'm with my (when-they-were-younger) boys
(they're not so keen on it any more---they'd rather I think to myself more!
<g>). But it helped them to *see* what I was thinking or how I came up with
the reasons why/where/how to do something.
Too often I think adults DON'T talk to children about what they're doing or
thinking. The children have no idea where those thoughts came from---what
process was used to get to the end. They don't see us struggle with
day-to-day thoughts and ideas. *I* think we need to talk more.
Chatty, chatty me,
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
camden
I actually love people like you ! People talking out loud have often reminded me of something I have forgotten to pick up !
And also hearing people talk to themselves reminds me I'm not so strange when I talk to myself :)
Carol (in Maine)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think out loud all the time! I miss having small children to take to the
store...I didn't get quite so many strange looks when I kept up a running
commentary on my progress. Now, more often than not, I go to the store alone
and I can't seem to break the 'thinking out loud' habit. People are
beginning to wonder! ;)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And also hearing people talk to themselves reminds me I'm not so strange when I talk to myself :)
Carol (in Maine)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think out loud all the time! I miss having small children to take to the
store...I didn't get quite so many strange looks when I kept up a running
commentary on my progress. Now, more often than not, I go to the store alone
and I can't seem to break the 'thinking out loud' habit. People are
beginning to wonder! ;)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "April"
<abmorris23@c...> wrote:
introverted mommy to start talking to total strangers in the grocery
store! (typically when he's not there to listen) Just the other day
I mentioned to a person nearby in the baking goods aisle that the
cinnamon chips are tasty on oatmeal. And the trip before last, I had
two people ask me questions as I was meandering and mumbling and
helped them find what they were looking for. I think maybe it's
because having DS around I tend to be more outward focused (focusing
more on him than on my inside world) and moving a bit more slowly
and that's become habit. Pre-DS I used to turbo shop - speed through
without pausing to look around and make sure not to go on the day
that the senior citizens bus was there. Now I relax, maybe say a
word or two to someone here and there, chat with the cashier and bag
person, help the mom in the car next to mine get her groceries in
the trunk ASAP because a storm is coming and she's got an infant on
hand, and so on. I used to be way introverted but since DS I've
moderated more to the middle of things - I still need recharging
time alone but I can be more open more of the time. Interesting -
thanks for this thread - I hadn't pondered this for a while.
--Deb
<abmorris23@c...> wrote:
>take >to the
> I think out loud all the time! I miss having small children to
> store...I didn't get quite so many strange looks when I kept up aOddly enough, thinking out loud/talking to DS has even gotten this
>running
> commentary on my progress. Now, more often than not, I go to the
>store alone
> and I can't seem to break the 'thinking out loud' habit. People are
> beginning to wonder! ;)
introverted mommy to start talking to total strangers in the grocery
store! (typically when he's not there to listen) Just the other day
I mentioned to a person nearby in the baking goods aisle that the
cinnamon chips are tasty on oatmeal. And the trip before last, I had
two people ask me questions as I was meandering and mumbling and
helped them find what they were looking for. I think maybe it's
because having DS around I tend to be more outward focused (focusing
more on him than on my inside world) and moving a bit more slowly
and that's become habit. Pre-DS I used to turbo shop - speed through
without pausing to look around and make sure not to go on the day
that the senior citizens bus was there. Now I relax, maybe say a
word or two to someone here and there, chat with the cashier and bag
person, help the mom in the car next to mine get her groceries in
the trunk ASAP because a storm is coming and she's got an infant on
hand, and so on. I used to be way introverted but since DS I've
moderated more to the middle of things - I still need recharging
time alone but I can be more open more of the time. Interesting -
thanks for this thread - I hadn't pondered this for a while.
--Deb
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:28:12 PM Central Standard Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
The one time that clearly sticks out in memory was my oldest was maybe 2,
sitting in her stroller and we were clothes shopping for her. I knew it
couldn't be much fun and I was trying to engage her in conversation to make
it a
bit more pleasant. I would hold up outfits and ask her which she liked
better;
this one or this one? I clearly thought she was responding and making
choices but a "better" mother took the time to inform me that I was just
being
ridiculous that she had no idea what I was talking about and I was wasting
my
time.
~~~
Yeah, Will was about that age and he was playing with the train in the
bookstore while I sat nearby and looked at books. A dad was playing with his
little one at the train, too. It was almost time to go and I told Will, 'we have
two more minutes", and the guy looked at me and said, "He has no concept of
time. He doesn't know what you're talking about." I just kind of shrugged
and laughed.
When the two minutes were up I said, "Will, it's time to go" and Will looked
up and took my hand and said, 'bye bye" to the train.
The whole reason I warned my kids when it was time to go was so there
wouldn't be a scene when they didn't want to leave. I hardly ever had to carry a
screaming kid away from anything.
No, Will probably had no clue how long 2 minutes is. That guy had no clue
what Will knew or not.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
The one time that clearly sticks out in memory was my oldest was maybe 2,
sitting in her stroller and we were clothes shopping for her. I knew it
couldn't be much fun and I was trying to engage her in conversation to make
it a
bit more pleasant. I would hold up outfits and ask her which she liked
better;
this one or this one? I clearly thought she was responding and making
choices but a "better" mother took the time to inform me that I was just
being
ridiculous that she had no idea what I was talking about and I was wasting
my
time.
~~~
Yeah, Will was about that age and he was playing with the train in the
bookstore while I sat nearby and looked at books. A dad was playing with his
little one at the train, too. It was almost time to go and I told Will, 'we have
two more minutes", and the guy looked at me and said, "He has no concept of
time. He doesn't know what you're talking about." I just kind of shrugged
and laughed.
When the two minutes were up I said, "Will, it's time to go" and Will looked
up and took my hand and said, 'bye bye" to the train.
The whole reason I warned my kids when it was time to go was so there
wouldn't be a scene when they didn't want to leave. I hardly ever had to carry a
screaming kid away from anything.
No, Will probably had no clue how long 2 minutes is. That guy had no clue
what Will knew or not.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]