denise perri

"If the mom cares about the child being warm, the mom
should take a coat and a
blanket and a hat, and not make a big deal about it.
If they're needed,
they're there. If they're not needed, the mom can
learn to judge a little
better, or just not mind always being over-prepared. I
like to be
over-prepared
myself. <g> That way the children are never
under-warm, nor under-loved, nor
over-guilted."


is this along the same lines of me making sure i
always have lots of snacks and food and sippycups and
waterbottles or drinks when we go somewhere even if my
kids haven't asked for them, because i KNOW that
they'll probably get hungry/thirsty while we're
out? i'm thinking it is.

would it be true than that being prepared or
"over-prepared" does not equal enabling or spoiling a
kid?
is this similiar to times when my kids ask me how
to spell something and i tell them how it's spelled,
not have them sound it out or something else? i don't
see answering their questions as enabling them or as
stunting their intellectual growth or anything like
that, i see it as just the opposite.

i have a daughter who is 17 months old.
she has a fantastic kid size rocking chair that she
loves and lately she has been climbing up and standing
on it.
the natural consequence of that could be that she
falls. i guess that another natural consequence is
that her balancing skills get really really good, but
i seem to focus more on the *falling* chance.
i don't want to tell her to *stop*. i *do* not want
her to get hurt and i feel like i'd be mean if i just
let her figure it out herself. ????
what i do tis tell her that she has more of a chance
of falling if she stands on the rocker than if she
sits and i move closer to her if i was further away.
i'm really not sure what to do.
i think about when she learned to crawl and sit up and
walk and how i never stepped in or directed her, but
would just *be* close by for support-physical or words
wise, if she needed it.
i feel like what i'm doing in regards to the rocker is
still along those same lines but i'm doubting myself.

thank you guys so much for all of your responses.
i really appreciate them, they've been really helpful
:)








__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Deb

--- In [email protected], denise perri
<de_perri@y...> wrote:
>
> is this along the same lines of me making sure i
> always have lots of snacks and food and sippycups and
> waterbottles or drinks when we go somewhere even if my
> kids haven't asked for them, because i KNOW that
> they'll probably get hungry/thirsty while we're
> out? i'm thinking it is.
Yup

> would it be true than that being prepared or
> "over-prepared" does not equal enabling or spoiling a
> kid?
> is this similiar to times when my kids ask me how
> to spell something and i tell them how it's spelled,
> not have them sound it out or something else? i don't
> see answering their questions as enabling them or as
> stunting their intellectual growth or anything like
> that, i see it as just the opposite.
Yup
> i have a daughter who is 17 months old.
> she has a fantastic kid size rocking chair that she
> loves and lately she has been climbing up and standing
> on it.
> the natural consequence of that could be that she
> falls. i guess that another natural consequence is
> that her balancing skills get really really good, but
> i seem to focus more on the *falling* chance.
> i don't want to tell her to *stop*. i *do* not want
> her to get hurt and i feel like i'd be mean if i just
> let her figure it out herself. ????
> what i do tis tell her that she has more of a chance
> of falling if she stands on the rocker than if she
> sits and i move closer to her if i was further away.
> i'm really not sure what to do.
> i think about when she learned to crawl and sit up and
> walk and how i never stepped in or directed her, but
> would just *be* close by for support-physical or words
> wise, if she needed it.
> i feel like what i'm doing in regards to the rocker is
> still along those same lines but i'm doubting myself.

Can you maybe toss a cushion on the floor in front of and behind the
rocker? I know the feelings you speak of - I've got a DS who is
quite a climber (climbing furniture at 6 months! and we're talking
climbed onto the couch, over the arm onto a straightback chair and
was trying to get onto a 6 ft tall bookcase!) I've learned two
things over time: 1 - he has a way better sense of balance and
position than I do (his body-sense I guess you might call it - he
*knows* where he is, what he wants to do, and whether he can and how
to do it) 2 - injuries happen sometimes from the most innocuous
things. DS has had two broken bones and he's 7 1/2. The first was
running indoors - indoor/outdoor carpeting over concrete slab.
Landed oddly when he tripped (he was 18 months old at the time) and
made a nice clean break in his right radius near the wrist. Who'd'a
thunk it? - he'd done the same thing a gazillion times during his
toddlerhood. Then, right at about 4 yrs old, he and some other kids
were playing in and around a big box (the big old Gateway computer
boxes). They were climbing in and out for quite a while. DS had gone
in and out several times already. Then one time the box took a tip
and dumped DS out and he broke his left humerus just above the
elbow. He had been in and out bunches of times and even taken
spills. Just that one time the landing was a bit off.

A couple of thoughts - practice falls. Roll off the couch and stuff
and make it play to fall safely. Also, maybe look for a balance
board type thing, kid size - something that she can use to develop
balance (which she seems to be enjoying) that is designed for the
process rather than her rocker (after all, it is that gift-giving
time of the year).

--Deb

Su Penn

I am a big fan of "spotting" my kids when they try something like
this. Standing in a rocker and rocking it is fun, and at least for my
20-month-old, it's clear from how he's holding on that he's not very
likely to fall. But I do get up from what I'm doing and move closer
to him whenever he's doing something that looks extra-risky or that
he hasn't done before, and I do manage to keep him from tumbling--or
at least break a fall--once in awhile. I say, "That looks like fun.
Let me spot you!" My older son, 4, will ask me to spot him if he
wants to try something he's not sure about, and it helps him try
things that would be scary otherwise.

I know this might not look too different from hovering in an anxious
manner (smile) but I try to communicate a calm if-needed presence,
not "oh my god you'll crack your noggin if you don't get down right
now!" And I back off after the baby has tried something a few times
with good results.

Su

On Nov 29, 2005, at 9:19 PM, denise perri wrote:

>
> i have a daughter who is 17 months old.
> she has a fantastic kid size rocking chair that she
> loves and lately she has been climbing up and standing
> on it.
> the natural consequence of that could be that she
> falls. i guess that another natural consequence is
> that her balancing skills get really really good, but
> i seem to focus more on the *falling* chance.
> i don't want to tell her to *stop*. i *do* not want
> her to get hurt and i feel like i'd be mean if i just
> let her figure it out herself. ????
> what i do tis tell her that she has more of a chance
> of falling if she stands on the rocker than if she
> sits and i move closer to her if i was further away.
> i'm really not sure what to do.
> i think about when she learned

Deb

--- In [email protected], Su Penn <pennsu@m...>
wrote:
>
> I am a big fan of "spotting" my kids when they try something like
> this.

That's exactly it - provide a level of calm support so that both you
and the child feel relatively secure. At first it may be you stand
in close or even hold a hand (depending on the situation) then you
can gradually, as confidence grows, step back or step away entirely
and toss in a cushion on the off chance...

*soapbox time*
I also am a firm believer that every parent should learn basic first
aid and CPR and have an up to date first aid kit on hand, easily
accessible. It's a great way to beat the 'what if...?" worries
without making everyone nutso by hovering. As with anything,
information and practice lead to a level of confidence that results
in a measure of calm even in crisis.
*end of soapbox*
(FWIW we have 4 first aid kits - one in each glovebox, one small one
in my purse, and one in the bathroom that really needs a new case
since stuff falls all over the place too easily - and we'll probably
sub divide it into two, one for upstairs and one for downstairs,
when we do that)

--Deb

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/05 8:02:25 PM, de_perri@... writes:


> is this along the same lines of me making sure i
> always have lots of snacks and food and sippycups and
> waterbottles or drinks when we go somewhere even if my
> kids haven't asked for them, because i KNOW that
> they'll probably get hungry/thirsty while we're
> out? i'm thinking it is.
>

I don't see it as any different at all.
You probably also make sure there's gas in the car or that you have money for
public transportation--ALL the things needed for a safe, comfortable outing.


-=-would it be true than that being prepared or
"over-prepared" does not equal enabling or spoiling a
kid?-=-

"Enabling" is usually used of enabling someone to continue to use heroin or
to be an aloholic. If you're enabling your child to be safe and comfortable,
that's just good parenting. "Enabling" has a bad connotation when used as
you used it above.

Here's what I think about "spoiled"--http://sandradodd.com/spoiled

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

We do this too. And with a rocker, you could block it a bit front and back
so it only rocks a little, but make sure the child is aware of that so she
won't expect it to be as safe every time. And you could put soft stuff around
in case she falls, and more it away from other furniture.

Sandra

> =-=-I am a big fan of "spotting" my kids when they try something like 
> this. Standing in a rocker and rocking it is fun, and at least for my 
> 20-month-old, it's clear from how he's holding on that he's not very 
> likely to fall. But I do get up from what I'm doing and move closer 
> to him whenever he's doing something that looks extra-risky or that 
> he hasn't done before, and I do manage to keep him from tumbling--or 
> at least break a fall--once in awhile. I say, "That looks like fun. 
> Let me spot you!" My older son, 4, will ask me to spot him if he 
> wants to try something he's not sure about, and it helps him try 
> things that would be scary otherwise.-=-
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

April

-=-would it be true than that being prepared or
"over-prepared" does not equal enabling or spoiling a
kid?-=-



Kind of related, many years ago something that started my shift to
unschooling was a realization I had regarding treating my kids the same way
I would treat my spouse, a friend, or even myself. The parenting methodology
we had read would say things like if your child forget something as you were
leaving, not to turn around and go back so they could get it so they will
remember next time. Or, if they left laundry in the washer, bag it up so
they won't do it again. A "natural consequence". I just couldn't do it,
because when I forgot something, I was willing to turn around and go get
whatever it was (and my memory what it is, it happens a lot!) and I don't
always get to my laundry and I love it when someone switches a load into the
dryer for me. I just couldn't justify treating my children in a way that
seemed so disrespectful and was such a double standard from the way I wanted
to be treated. What has happened is my children and more than happy to
accommodate me forgetting things and they will gladly switch whoever's
laundry needs to be switched. Instead of creating dependent, irresponsible
children that the books warned would happen, I have children that are
thoughtful, considerate and understanding. And oddly enough, they forget
things a lot less than I do. Anyway, the above comment just reminded me of
this, because I had more than one person tell me I was doing my kids a
disservice. Humph. Shows what they know.



~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com

* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
SandraDodd@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: natural consequences




In a message dated 11/29/05 8:02:25 PM, de_perri@... writes:


> is this along the same lines of me making sure i
> always have lots of snacks and food and sippycups and
> waterbottles or drinks when we go somewhere even if my
> kids haven't asked for them, because i KNOW that
> they'll probably get hungry/thirsty while we're
> out? i'm thinking it is.
>

I don't see it as any different at all.
You probably also make sure there's gas in the car or that you have money
for
public transportation--ALL the things needed for a safe, comfortable outing.



-=-would it be true than that being prepared or
"over-prepared" does not equal enabling or spoiling a
kid?-=-

"Enabling" is usually used of enabling someone to continue to use heroin or
to be an aloholic. If you're enabling your child to be safe and
comfortable,
that's just good parenting. "Enabling" has a bad connotation when used as
you used it above.

Here's what I think about "spoiled"--http://sandradodd.com/spoiled

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>




_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/30/05 6:18:42 PM, abmorris23@... writes:


> Or, if they left laundry in the washer, bag it up so
> they won't do it again. A "natural consequence". 
>

Yeah, right.

And the "principle" behind that, I guess, is that "kids need to learn."

And kids DO learn, but too many poor kids are learning that their parents are
mean and coldhearted and are willing to ruin clothes and risk illlness and
ensure unhappiness to "make them learn."

If the parents go by the principles that taking care of clothes is good, then
the only thing they could do would be to put those clothes in the dryer.
And if they live by the principle that generosity breeds generosity, they could
put someone else's clothes in the dryer with a happy heart.

-=-  Instead of creating dependent, irresponsible
children that the books warned would happen, I have children that are
thoughtful, considerate and understanding.-=-

Amen.

Holly made me a Boca burger earlier because I was craving a burger and we
weren't able to go out. It was her idea, and even asked me if I wanted cheese,
and came back later to ask if I had liked it. (I've never had one
before--only she and Keith have eaten them.) I did like it, but I liked her
generosity and thoughtfulness even more.

-=-I had more than one person tell me I was doing my kids a
disservice. Humph. Shows what they know.-=-

Maybe you could tell them next time that you're being supremely selfish,
because you want to have kids who will love you for life and do things for your
grandchildren and be generous with you and others, rather than kids who learn to
leave home at 18 and hardly look back. (It would just go over them like
water over a rock, though.)

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I can call it *spotting* ds now. That's such a good way of putting it!

Thanks,
Kathe


Su Penn wrote:
> I am a big fan of "spotting" my kids when they try something like
> this. Standing in a rocker and rocking it is fun, and at least for my

> 20-month-old, it's clear from how he's holding on that he's not very

> likely to fall. But I do get up from what I'm doing and move closer
> to him whenever he's doing something that looks extra-risky or that
> he hasn't done before, and I do manage to keep him from tumbling--or

> at least break a fall--once in awhile. I say, "That looks like fun.
> Let me spot you!" My older son, 4, will ask me to spot him if he
> wants to try something he's not sure about, and it helps him try
> things that would be scary otherwise.
>
> I know this might not look too different from hovering in an anxious

> manner (smile) but I try to communicate a calm if-needed presence,
> not "oh my god you'll crack your noggin if you don't get down right
> now!" And I back off after the baby has tried something a few times
> with good results.
>
> Su
>
> On Nov 29, 2005, at 9:19 PM, denise perri wrote:
>
>
>>i have a daughter who is 17 months old.
>>she has a fantastic kid size rocking chair that she
>>loves and lately she has been climbing up and standing
>>on it.
>>the natural consequence of that could be that she
>>falls. i guess that another natural consequence is
>>that her balancing skills get really really good, but
>>i seem to focus more on the *falling* chance.
>>i don't want to tell her to *stop*. i *do* not want
>>her to get hurt and i feel like i'd be mean if i just
>>let her figure it out herself. ????
>>what i do tis tell her that she has more of a chance
>>of falling if she stands on the rocker than if she
>>sits and i move closer to her if i was further away.
>>i'm really not sure what to do.
>>i think about when she learned

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Rachel Oglesby

hiya all,

I don't come out of lurker status often but this touched history for
us.

When David was 1 year old he was standing on a rocking chair at his
preschool. It was on either hardwood or tile floors. Not being
watched too closely he began rocking it. It fell back and severed the
tip of his middle finger. They were not able to reattach it. It is
the same height as the ring finger.

He is 11 now, that nail grows wierd. And that is just one of the many
tales he loves to hear from his picninny mom. About how I rushed out
of school, ran to the hospital, almost fainted dead away at my baby
crying so badly- and- so - did not want to see that stub they could
not attach. Looking back at it now- almost wish he'd been older so we
could have had a funeral for it. <BWG>

That and the neon green poop are his favorites......

Be Well,
Rach & David