[email protected]

twelve
O.E. twelf, lit. "two left" (over ten), from P.Gmc. *twa-lif-, a compound of
the root of two + *lif-, root of the verb leave (see eleven). Cf. O.S.
twelif, O.N. tolf, O.Fris. twelef, M.Du. twalef, Du. twaalf, O.H.G. zwelif, Ger.
zwölf, Goth. twalif. Outside Gmc., an analogous formation is Lith. drylika, with
second element -lika "left over."


(Oops to having fumbled the following post, and since the link won't work in
list e-mails, I followed it and have lifted the good part, above. Thanks,
Liz! —Sandra)

FROM: eerrhhaz@...
DATE: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:21:43 -0000
SUBJECT: Re: etymology note: "twelve"

I apologize; I should have included the link. When my trusty

American Heritage 3rd ed doesn't do it for me, I like the
Online Etymology Dictionary:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php? search=twelve

And then I usually Google to make sure that site isn't
blowing smoke (I've never found it to give an etymology that
wasn't supported elsewhere, but I usually check just the
same).


Liz


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Cool. I'm going to have to look that up in my Origins of English book
when ds isn't asleep on my lap... to see if it says the same thing or
something more/ different or if it's even listed (--hope so).

Kathe


SandraDodd@... wrote:
> twelve
> O.E. twelf, lit. "two left" (over ten), from P.Gmc. *twa-lif-, a
compound of
> the root of two + *lif-, root of the verb leave (see eleven). Cf.
O.S.
> twelif, O.N. tolf, O.Fris. twelef, M.Du. twalef, Du. twaalf, O.H.G.
zwelif, Ger.
> zwölf, Goth. twalif. Outside Gmc., an analogous formation is Lith.
drylika, with
> second element -lika "left over."
>
>
> (Oops to having fumbled the following post, and since the link won't
work in
> list e-mails, I followed it and have lifted the good part, above.
Thanks,
> Liz! —Sandra)
>
> FROM: eerrhhaz@...
> DATE: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:21:43 -0000
> SUBJECT: Re: etymology note: "twelve"
>
> I apologize; I should have included the link. When my trusty
>
> American Heritage 3rd ed doesn't do it for me, I like the
> Online Etymology Dictionary:
> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php? search=twelve
>
> And then I usually Google to make sure that site isn't
> blowing smoke (I've never found it to give an etymology that
> wasn't supported elsewhere, but I usually check just the
> same).
>
>
> Liz



__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com

Angela

<<<Cool. I'm going to have to look that up in my Origins of English book
when ds isn't asleep on my lap... to see if it says the same thing or
something more/ different or if it's even listed (--hope so).>>>


I'd love to have a book about the origins of words. Does anyone have a
recommendation? My kids are always asking, "why is a ______ called a
_____."

Angela
game-enthusiast@...

Sandra Dodd

On Dec 6, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Angela wrote:

> I'd love to have a book about the origins of words. Does anyone
> have a
> recommendation? My kids are always asking, "why is a ______ called a
> _____."

----------------------------------------------

I have no single recommendation for a book (I have lots), but to
remind you that books are outdated very quickly, but the etymology
sites online are updated all the time. <g>


Just as with any history, there are new discoveries made constantly,
so my current favorite source is to go to google, put in the word,
and "etymology."

I have a page with a few things saved, but in general the internet is
more useful than a single book.
http://sandradodd.com/etymology

But if you ARE going to use a book, get a dictionary with good
etymologies. After the words (root words, and English words, more
likely than long technical terms or formations) there will be
something that looks kind of like this:


[<ME blah blah <OE yaddayadda <Gm BINGO!]

My favorite is American Heritage.

Sandra

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Dodd Sandra@...

My favorite is American Heritage.

-=-=-=-=-

That was my favorite English teacher's fave too. I loved and only used American Heritage for years.

Then we got a mean teacher. MUST use Webster's. :-P~~~~*

Mrs. McColl was also my first Latin teacher---we both loved words and their origins. I still have the AH she required that first year.

I had never heard anyone else say anything nice---or even mention---the American Heritage until a few years ago on one of these lists when Sandra did.

Seems like home to me!

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
>
> I have no single recommendation for a book (I have lots), but to
> remind you that books are outdated very quickly, but the etymology
> sites online are updated all the time. <g>

For serious word usage, the OED--Oxford English Dictionary is a really
good source. Here's a blurb from their website, which you have to join
to search (ridiculous fee, but most libraries probably have it):

The Oxford English Dictionary is the accepted authority on the evolution
of the English language over the last millennium. It is an unsurpassed
guide to the meaning, history, and pronunciation of over half a million
words, both present and past. It traces the usage of words through 2.5
million quotations from a wide range of international English language
sources, from classic literature and specialist periodicals to film
scripts and cookery books.

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

NANCY OWENS

One of my all time favorite books on words. *When Is A Pig A Hog? A Guide to Confoundingly Related English Words* By Bernice Randall
Some of the topics:
When is a batter a hitter?
Are all lawyers attorneys?
What is the difference between a couch, a sofa, a divan, and a settee?
The difference between a second cousin and a first cousin once removed?

Not so much on the origin of words like twilight, but more on why we call somethings different things that seem to be the same thing. <g> A book that has answered a ton of those *Mom, why is a ___ called a ___?* questions for me and mine. Also has some informative appendixes in the back.
~Nancy

****Angela <game-enthusiast@...> wrote:
<<<Cool. I'm going to have to look that up in my Origins of English book
when ds isn't asleep on my lap... to see if it says the same thing or
something more/ different or if it's even listed (--hope so).>>>


I'd love to have a book about the origins of words. Does anyone have a
recommendation? My kids are always asking, "why is a ______ called a
_____."

Angela
game-enthusiast@...*****

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

Another one I like is The Mother Tongue and how it got that way - lots
of info but presented in a fun manner. Things like how come you have
one knife but two knives? why is it a cow on the hoof and beef on the
plate? all that fun stuff (both the examples are related to the Norman
invasion)

--Deb

Sandra Dodd

On Dec 6, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Danielle Conger wrote:

> For serious word usage, the OED--Oxford English Dictionary is a really
> good source.

-------------------------------

Oh yeah, I have that too. <g>

It's good for research for medieval-text purposes, but for everyday
origins of words, American Heritage is more interesting. The
American Heritage Dictionary used to be (isn't so much anymore, I
don't think, but I could be wrong) based around the Indo-European
Language research that was big in vogue in the 1960's and for a while
following, and that wasn't as well known when the OED was put
together. I like both of them, but someone asked for ONE book. <g>

The OED used to be available to members of the Quality Paperback
Bookclub, but I could never get it to access from my computer so I
quit the book club. I think it's a huge shame they didn't just get
sponsors and make it freely available.

I have the two-volume reduced-print OED that lots of people got for
$30 or so in the 1970's and 80's by joining Book of the Month Club.
It comes with a great magnifying glass. I used to be able to read it
without the magnifying glass. Now I use the magnifying glass for
other things, too. "Years have passed." My eyes are getting old. <g>


-=-The Oxford English Dictionary is the accepted authority on the
evolution
of the English language over the last millennium. It is an unsurpassed
guide to the meaning, history, and pronunciation of over half a million
words, both present and past.-=-

AND, until the recent revision, it was put together from 3x5 cards
(or the British equivalent) all done by hand, and all typeset and
proofread. That's the edition I have on paper, and that many
libraries have in umpty-I-forget-how-many volumes. The online
edition is said to have lots of newer stuff too.

Sandra

Angela

<<<But if you ARE going to use a book, get a dictionary with good
etymologies. After the words (root words, and English words, more
likely than long technical terms or formations) there will be
something that looks kind of like this:


[<ME blah blah <OE yaddayadda <Gm BINGO!]>>>


I have an American Heritage Dictionary and I just sat down with it figured
out what you were talking about above. Thanks! I never really thought to
look in the front of the book for all the abreviations. It's all quite
clear now.

And thanks to everyone else for their suggestions.

Angela
game-enthusiast@...

k

Angela wrote:
> <<<Cool. I'm going to have to look that up in my Origins of English
book
> when ds isn't asleep on my lap... to see if it says the same thing or

> something more/ different or if it's even listed (--hope so).>>>
>
>
> I'd love to have a book about the origins of words. Does anyone have
a
> recommendation? My kids are always asking, "why is a ______ called a
> _____."
>
> Angela
> game-enthusiast@...


I'm not recommending my Origins book by Eric Partridge for that
purpose.
In my opinion, it's primarily a linguistics book with a dash of
dictionary too. Laid out like an old thesaurus-- cumbersome to find
things until you're used to it but not unhandy, and interesting in it's

own way.

I enjoy reading the abbreviations. Gothic was a language. Huh, didn't

know that. I thought Gothic was all about architecture and these days
about dark teens and other things. Had no idea it was an actual
language, maybe still is?

For whoever's interested....
Twelve is discussed under "two" --paragraph 2. There's twelve our
familiar English word but follow the use of the same word in other
languages, Old Frisian, Old Saxon, Gothic, Old High and Middle High
German to the current German word, which is from Old Norse and then on
to something about Lithuanian formation and the English eleven. Fun.
I
like the quote page right before the contents page which says:

Philologists who chase
A Panting syllable through time and space,
Start it at home, and hunt it in the dark,
To Gaul, to Greece, and into Noah's Ark.
Cowper, Retirement

Here's the entry on twelve in Origins:

Twelve, ME twelve, earlier twelf, comes from OE twelf: cf OFris twelef,

twelif, twelf, tolef--OS twelif--Go twalife OHG-MHG zwelif, G
zwölf--ON
tōlf: lit, (10+) 2 leave, i.e. left over: for the formation, cf Lith
dvý-lika--and E ELEVEN, Twelfth, ME twelfthe, earlier twelfte, comes
from OE twelfta (from twelf): cf OFris twelefta, twilifta, tol(e)fta.

Kathe



__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com

kstjonn

I also like "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" and "Bryson's Dictionary of
Troublesome Words." I love reading about words!