got one for ya!!
Geneva Goza
My son Echo is almost 5 yo. We came to unschooling about a yr and a half
ago and that has led us closer to TCS and radical unschooling. I recognize
that it is a journey and dh and I have lots to learn but more than anything
I want/try to be respectful, patient and understanding. Now for my dilemma
- Echo has a friend Aanaleese, she is 5.5 and homeschooled in a very relaxed
way, her mom and I have been friends for about a year and I consider her
very dear and I see our friendship as a very important one that I want to
nurture and grow old with - I hope that makes sense. I have lots of
girlfriends but I see her and her family as special.
Aanaleese and Echo play together about once per week, sometimes more.
In the past couple of mos, when she visits they play "family", where Echo is
the dad, Aanaleese is the mom and my 2 yo daughter is either the gma or more
recently the daughter. Echo and Aanaleese are very loving and nurturing to
their "daughter" and honestly I have teared up over some of the sweet
situations that have come up in their "parenting" of their "daughter". I
can go into more detail as needed.
My question is this.Echo has never expressed any type of romantic feelings
or play with any other kids so this is all very new for me. I have noticed
lately that lately when they play "family" Aanaleese always likes to bring
the role playing into bedtime.where the mom and dad are going to bed. So
this basically means 2 5 yo going to bed in the middle of the day. What do
they do - they lie in bed. There has been talk of "would you like to take
your wedding ring off and put it on the table with mine" etc. It's all very
innocent and sweet and I feel proud that they both have loving relationships
to model. Dh and I are very affectionate and always have been without
feeling shameful or as if we should not kiss/hug in front of the kids.
Again, I am happy to divuldge any info to help you understand the goings on
without typing it all out now. I'm just wondering in a nut shell if this
all sounds okay and if you would be comfortable with all of this. In my
heart I am okay with it but not sure "how" to handle it or if I should
"handle" anything in th e first place. We have a 2 story house where the
kids have 2 bedrooms and a bath upstairs. When my kids are home without
friends over, they choose to be downstairs with me ut when they have
Aanaleese over, they choose to be upstairs.I do pop in and visit with them,
I also invite them down to do other things with me but when Aanaleese is
over they are almost always in character it seems. There are 3 beds
upstairs as well as a pretend kitchen, living area, dinette, dress up box
etc.so that is the 'family's" homestead and when I try to involve myself
they obviously do not want/need me there.
On Friday.the kids came down for a snack and while I was preparing it, I
peeked into the living room to see Echo and Aanaleese in eachother's arms.
Well ithought it was very sweet but at the same time (was it MY upbringing
that triggered these feelings?) it did make me a tad uncomfortable. Again,
it was very innocent and loving looking.Echo says she is his best friend
ever and he loves her very much OR do I need to have a talk with my son.
I guess I am just a bit confused.are they too young? My parents shamed me
for this sort of thing and I don't want to make them feel shameful - they
really do love eachother, but they are 5!!!! Gotta go now but I look
forward to some feed back and hearing what you all would do/ have done in
this situation.
Geneva Goza
Personal Chef Services
214-660-0231
214-663-0141 cell
gozas@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ago and that has led us closer to TCS and radical unschooling. I recognize
that it is a journey and dh and I have lots to learn but more than anything
I want/try to be respectful, patient and understanding. Now for my dilemma
- Echo has a friend Aanaleese, she is 5.5 and homeschooled in a very relaxed
way, her mom and I have been friends for about a year and I consider her
very dear and I see our friendship as a very important one that I want to
nurture and grow old with - I hope that makes sense. I have lots of
girlfriends but I see her and her family as special.
Aanaleese and Echo play together about once per week, sometimes more.
In the past couple of mos, when she visits they play "family", where Echo is
the dad, Aanaleese is the mom and my 2 yo daughter is either the gma or more
recently the daughter. Echo and Aanaleese are very loving and nurturing to
their "daughter" and honestly I have teared up over some of the sweet
situations that have come up in their "parenting" of their "daughter". I
can go into more detail as needed.
My question is this.Echo has never expressed any type of romantic feelings
or play with any other kids so this is all very new for me. I have noticed
lately that lately when they play "family" Aanaleese always likes to bring
the role playing into bedtime.where the mom and dad are going to bed. So
this basically means 2 5 yo going to bed in the middle of the day. What do
they do - they lie in bed. There has been talk of "would you like to take
your wedding ring off and put it on the table with mine" etc. It's all very
innocent and sweet and I feel proud that they both have loving relationships
to model. Dh and I are very affectionate and always have been without
feeling shameful or as if we should not kiss/hug in front of the kids.
Again, I am happy to divuldge any info to help you understand the goings on
without typing it all out now. I'm just wondering in a nut shell if this
all sounds okay and if you would be comfortable with all of this. In my
heart I am okay with it but not sure "how" to handle it or if I should
"handle" anything in th e first place. We have a 2 story house where the
kids have 2 bedrooms and a bath upstairs. When my kids are home without
friends over, they choose to be downstairs with me ut when they have
Aanaleese over, they choose to be upstairs.I do pop in and visit with them,
I also invite them down to do other things with me but when Aanaleese is
over they are almost always in character it seems. There are 3 beds
upstairs as well as a pretend kitchen, living area, dinette, dress up box
etc.so that is the 'family's" homestead and when I try to involve myself
they obviously do not want/need me there.
On Friday.the kids came down for a snack and while I was preparing it, I
peeked into the living room to see Echo and Aanaleese in eachother's arms.
Well ithought it was very sweet but at the same time (was it MY upbringing
that triggered these feelings?) it did make me a tad uncomfortable. Again,
it was very innocent and loving looking.Echo says she is his best friend
ever and he loves her very much OR do I need to have a talk with my son.
I guess I am just a bit confused.are they too young? My parents shamed me
for this sort of thing and I don't want to make them feel shameful - they
really do love eachother, but they are 5!!!! Gotta go now but I look
forward to some feed back and hearing what you all would do/ have done in
this situation.
Geneva Goza
Personal Chef Services
214-660-0231
214-663-0141 cell
gozas@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Barb Lundgren
Geneva,
I say pat yourself on the back for fostering what sounds like a wonderful,
healthy, realistic friendship and roleplay between two 5 year olds. I
understand your feelings of discomfort however, as I recall the years my
kids did the same thing with their best friends. I think observation is
everything. As a mom, you watch your kids, listen to them and are ready to
involve yourself in their lives as a knowledgeable parent whenever they need
you to. When something seems confusing or amiss, you find a way to talk to
them about it - not in an admonishing way, but in a way that helps you
understand what they are thinking and what their plans are. You can help
guide their thinking and behavior with your questions and suggestions. Be
conscious about whether your concerns are fear-based (not good) or rational.
I also recommend talking to the other mom involved (I think you already
are?) so she knows what the kids are up to.
One of the most meaningful experiences I've ever had was in attending a
weekend seminar with Ashley Montague (now deceased) who is a British
anthropologist. He's written many wonderful works and has traveled and
studied cultures worldwide extensively. One of the things he talked about
was how important it is to the development of healthy behaviors in adults
for them as children to observe the behavior of adults and to freely mimic
behaviors through roleplaying. He was adamant that no good behavior could
be learned from a book.
Because this list seems to love controversy and shock quality information,
Montague was also adamant that children observe their parents having sex.
He claimed that in other cultures where parents are unafraid of their
children seeing them during sexual activity, and children are free to share
a family bed, walk into a room where parents are having sex, etc. that such
children grow up without the need to experiment with sex prematurely and
they have healthy sexual relationship(s) as adults. This was shocking,
monstrous news for me years ago when my kids were babies/toddlers, but I
heard it at the right time.
I think a responsible parent needs to dissect and evaluate the roots of
anger, depression, dysfunction and rethink what is necessary to grow a child
that is comfortable and thriving in her own space, free to state her
opinion, disagree and act in accordance with her own inclinations, etc. It
can be real challenging trying to overcome all that our culture feeds us
with regard to what our kids need, what we need. The wonderful thing about
being an unschooler is that we already have so much practice thinking for
ourselves and bucking traditional "wisdom".
Barb
barb.lundgren@...
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness
has genius, power, and magic in it." Goethe
I say pat yourself on the back for fostering what sounds like a wonderful,
healthy, realistic friendship and roleplay between two 5 year olds. I
understand your feelings of discomfort however, as I recall the years my
kids did the same thing with their best friends. I think observation is
everything. As a mom, you watch your kids, listen to them and are ready to
involve yourself in their lives as a knowledgeable parent whenever they need
you to. When something seems confusing or amiss, you find a way to talk to
them about it - not in an admonishing way, but in a way that helps you
understand what they are thinking and what their plans are. You can help
guide their thinking and behavior with your questions and suggestions. Be
conscious about whether your concerns are fear-based (not good) or rational.
I also recommend talking to the other mom involved (I think you already
are?) so she knows what the kids are up to.
One of the most meaningful experiences I've ever had was in attending a
weekend seminar with Ashley Montague (now deceased) who is a British
anthropologist. He's written many wonderful works and has traveled and
studied cultures worldwide extensively. One of the things he talked about
was how important it is to the development of healthy behaviors in adults
for them as children to observe the behavior of adults and to freely mimic
behaviors through roleplaying. He was adamant that no good behavior could
be learned from a book.
Because this list seems to love controversy and shock quality information,
Montague was also adamant that children observe their parents having sex.
He claimed that in other cultures where parents are unafraid of their
children seeing them during sexual activity, and children are free to share
a family bed, walk into a room where parents are having sex, etc. that such
children grow up without the need to experiment with sex prematurely and
they have healthy sexual relationship(s) as adults. This was shocking,
monstrous news for me years ago when my kids were babies/toddlers, but I
heard it at the right time.
I think a responsible parent needs to dissect and evaluate the roots of
anger, depression, dysfunction and rethink what is necessary to grow a child
that is comfortable and thriving in her own space, free to state her
opinion, disagree and act in accordance with her own inclinations, etc. It
can be real challenging trying to overcome all that our culture feeds us
with regard to what our kids need, what we need. The wonderful thing about
being an unschooler is that we already have so much practice thinking for
ourselves and bucking traditional "wisdom".
Barb
barb.lundgren@...
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness
has genius, power, and magic in it." Goethe
[email protected]
-=-So
this basically means 2 5 yo going to bed in the middle of the day. What do
they do - they lie in bed. There has been talk of "would you like to take
your wedding ring off and put it on the table with mine" etc. It's all very
innocent and sweet and I feel proud that they both have loving relationships
to model. -=-
That wouldn't bother me.
conversationally.
You could maybe mention that in some families games like that would make the
moms nervous, but that Aanaleese seems really nice. (Something, I don't know
what...)
You could give him the beginning of a clue that some families don't let boys
and girls play together alone without giving him tons of details. And you
could give him an opportunity to express any discomfort he might have, and maybe
he has none!
I'm assuming you've already had some talks about bodily privacy, and you
could remind him of that, that sometimes parents sleep naked, but it wouldn't be
nice for him and his friend to get naked; they should keep their clothes on.
That might be too much to say too, if you're sure they're not getting feelie
about it.
I'd talk just a little and see whether the next move seems necessary.
Conversations with kids about touchy subjects are like chess games. If you were a
lawyer in court, you might be able to win with just a few moves. But it's
not court, and you don't want to "win." You want your son to win. So move
gently and give him a chance to move. It might take years to get through
that whole conversation, but you have years. Give him every opportunity to be a
winner.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
this basically means 2 5 yo going to bed in the middle of the day. What do
they do - they lie in bed. There has been talk of "would you like to take
your wedding ring off and put it on the table with mine" etc. It's all very
innocent and sweet and I feel proud that they both have loving relationships
to model. -=-
That wouldn't bother me.
> -=-Echo says she is his best friendDon't you always talk with him? Ask him about the game, just
> ever and he loves her very much OR do I need to have a talk with my son.-=-
>
conversationally.
You could maybe mention that in some families games like that would make the
moms nervous, but that Aanaleese seems really nice. (Something, I don't know
what...)
You could give him the beginning of a clue that some families don't let boys
and girls play together alone without giving him tons of details. And you
could give him an opportunity to express any discomfort he might have, and maybe
he has none!
I'm assuming you've already had some talks about bodily privacy, and you
could remind him of that, that sometimes parents sleep naked, but it wouldn't be
nice for him and his friend to get naked; they should keep their clothes on.
That might be too much to say too, if you're sure they're not getting feelie
about it.
I'd talk just a little and see whether the next move seems necessary.
Conversations with kids about touchy subjects are like chess games. If you were a
lawyer in court, you might be able to win with just a few moves. But it's
not court, and you don't want to "win." You want your son to win. So move
gently and give him a chance to move. It might take years to get through
that whole conversation, but you have years. Give him every opportunity to be a
winner.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Blair
Something to consider is your belief system about human sexuality. Do you believe children are sexual beings? If so, and a "sexual" experience arises with the children, how will you and your friend handle it. I suggest the moms talk to each other, discuss the possibilities and how they would want to handle it rather than bringing social issues with girl/boy play to the kids. I feel its better to be prepared than to wait for an issue to arise and possibly handle it in a way that could be later regretted (scolding, making the kids feel shamed, etc...)
Jennifer
Jennifer
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...<mailto:SandraDodd@...>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] got one for ya!!
-=-So
this basically means 2 5 yo going to bed in the middle of the day. What do
they do - they lie in bed. There has been talk of "would you like to take
your wedding ring off and put it on the table with mine" etc. It's all very
innocent and sweet and I feel proud that they both have loving relationships
to model. -=-
That wouldn't bother me.
> -=-Echo says she is his best friend
> ever and he loves her very much OR do I need to have a talk with my son.-=-
>
Don't you always talk with him? Ask him about the game, just
conversationally.
You could maybe mention that in some families games like that would make the
moms nervous, but that Aanaleese seems really nice. (Something, I don't know
what...)
You could give him the beginning of a clue that some families don't let boys
and girls play together alone without giving him tons of details. And you
could give him an opportunity to express any discomfort he might have, and maybe
he has none!
I'm assuming you've already had some talks about bodily privacy, and you
could remind him of that, that sometimes parents sleep naked, but it wouldn't be
nice for him and his friend to get naked; they should keep their clothes on.
That might be too much to say too, if you're sure they're not getting feelie
about it.
I'd talk just a little and see whether the next move seems necessary.
Conversations with kids about touchy subjects are like chess games. If you were a
lawyer in court, you might be able to win with just a few moves. But it's
not court, and you don't want to "win." You want your son to win. So move
gently and give him a chance to move. It might take years to get through
that whole conversation, but you have years. Give him every opportunity to be a
winner.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
I don't know if I'd worry, but only because I was in this predicament myself - as the child! When I was about 6, my best friend was a little boy I had grown up with. (Literally! Our mothers were pregnant with us together and our birthdays are only a week apart.) His father was transferred out of country, making us extremely unhappy, so he and I announced to our parents that we were getting married so they couldn't separate us. We even insisted on a little "wedding" bowl of macaroni and cheese with a birthday candle in it!!! <grin!>
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>>>Echo says she is his best friend ever and he loves her very much OR do I need to have a talk with my son.___________________________________________________
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