living out your philosophy
leavingemeraldcity
"But Kelly is right, she doesn't want to solve *her* problem."
Hello group members,
I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them. To not
judge according to arbitrary standards, to seek to understand and
gently nourish their initiatives. But I am not seeing this philosophy
being lived out in the dialogue following Susan's questions. I see
judgement, assumptions (the above quote is an example), even some
unkind attacks. I suspect that Susan has already concluded that
sincere, supportive help is not to be found here, as the consensus
seems to be that she has not "seen the light" and members have taken
to discussing her rather than responding to her. Following the tone of
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.
Tamara
Hello group members,
I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them. To not
judge according to arbitrary standards, to seek to understand and
gently nourish their initiatives. But I am not seeing this philosophy
being lived out in the dialogue following Susan's questions. I see
judgement, assumptions (the above quote is an example), even some
unkind attacks. I suspect that Susan has already concluded that
sincere, supportive help is not to be found here, as the consensus
seems to be that she has not "seen the light" and members have taken
to discussing her rather than responding to her. Following the tone of
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.
Tamara
Angela
<<Following the tone of
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.
Tamara>>
Don't take it personally Tamara because it isn't personal. This is a
discussion list not a support group and if what you are doing with your
children is disrespectful or hurtful this is the group that will point that
out to you and help you to move beyond it. (don't we all want to do better
by our children?) We are here to discuss unschooling; what it is and what it
isn't. When people come here with an agenda already mapped out and aren't
open to changing then what is the purpose of the dialog? The poster Momof7
was the first one to point out that she indeed was not an unschooler nor did
she want to be. She also said
it were only about how he felt, she would support him where he is at, not
push him to do more than he is ready for.
It can be painful to have our subconscious agendas pointed out to us, but
growth comes from self reflection.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.
Tamara>>
Don't take it personally Tamara because it isn't personal. This is a
discussion list not a support group and if what you are doing with your
children is disrespectful or hurtful this is the group that will point that
out to you and help you to move beyond it. (don't we all want to do better
by our children?) We are here to discuss unschooling; what it is and what it
isn't. When people come here with an agenda already mapped out and aren't
open to changing then what is the purpose of the dialog? The poster Momof7
was the first one to point out that she indeed was not an unschooler nor did
she want to be. She also said
> But I want my son to learn how to read. I'm afraid that if I just stopWhich would lead me to believe it was more about her than him. Because if
> "teaching" him, that when other people find out he can't read they
> will make a big deal about it. I'm afraid that this will make him feel
> dumb and damage his self-esteem.
it were only about how he felt, she would support him where he is at, not
push him to do more than he is ready for.
It can be painful to have our subconscious agendas pointed out to us, but
growth comes from self reflection.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[email protected]
I let Tamara's post through even though she only joined the list Monday.
The guidelines for this list are pretty clear, and are sent to each new member.
Read a couple of weeks before posting.
I didn't expect Susan's post to get good responses. I was impressed at how
patient and generous some were with information which is honestly available
elsewhere (Joyce is a saint). Susan had just joined the list too, and had I
been the moderator who came to her post first, I wouldn't have let it through.
So because Susan violated the list's recommendations (which are there for
good reason), she's unhappy with the response. She didn't know what to expect,
but had she followed the rules she would have had a much better idea.
Tamara, also very new to the list, wrote:
-=-I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them.-=-
Many list members seemed to think that Susan's attitude toward her son was
not leading toward loving acceptance. The truth is that the curriculum-using
community can't help her, because her problem can't be helped. A child who is
not ready to read cannot learn to read no matter HOW much he wants to, no
matter how hard he is willing to "work" and no matter how trickly clever the
teacher is. A baby too young to walk cannot walk no matter how much he wants to
or tries and no matter what the mom says, does, provides, threatens. There
are many factors and it happens when it happens. Moms can keep a baby from
learning to walk (or stall it off) but cannot induce it to happen "early."
Same with reading.
-=-I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them.-=-
Susan's not a child. The responses were given in favor of her son, not for
the comfort of the mother.
Now that you've joined the list, please go to the messages and read back to
last week's discussion about emotional support. If Susan joined for emotional
support for herself, rather than to examine how and why unschooling works,
she is needy of something this list can't provide. And a desire for emotional
(or technical) support for using a curriculum and pressing him to "want to
learn" is not something this list would do anyway.
-=- I see judgement, assumptions...-=-
Maybe the policy of not allowing posts until a person has read for two
weeks should be enforced more stringently.
-=- I suspect that Susan has already concluded that sincere, supportive help
is not to be found here-=-
If she concludes that, she will be incorrect in that assumption.
-=-Following the tone of
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.-=-
A day and a half of reading, posting before waiting a week or two, and
judging the list based on that is your option, but it's not the best option.
Those who have written do live out their philosophy with their children, and
they were freely and generously sharing what they KNOW to be true--that
families can live peacefully, joyfully, and children can learn to read gently and
surely in their own time. If that's not the answer Susan wanted to read, then
she came to the wrong place. But I think she knew that, and it was clear in
her first post that she didn't really intend to take our advice to heart, but
to continue with Rod and Staff and her teaching methods.
This is clearly, overtly, plainly not a Rod and Staff kind of list. Rod and
Staff is about control (the concept of the name of the curriculum, apart from
any other details, some of which can be discovered here):
http://www.anabaptists.org/tracts.html#rastracts
You can do your own google search. There is no official site, but this
curriculum is by the people who have little free tracts you can pick up at some
homeschooling conferences (certainly not the Live and Learn Unschooling
conference) that would just break your heart with their recommendations about the
treatment of children.
This doesn't mean that the family in question uses those methods. They
might not! (I hope not.)
But this list is very clearly described at yahoogroups, and those who post
before two weeks are taking their own chances AND disrupting the list.
But honestly, in this case even if the questioner decides she learned
nothing, others on the list who were unclear about whether they might calmly wait
through a child's "late reading" have probably been encouraged and enlightened,
and those who were still at the point of figuring out what they believed have
been able to see their ideas in light of those others that came by.
Every unschooler has to figure out each aspect on her own. Without
understanding it and really choosing to practice it, that aspect will be cloudy and
vague. We can't sell the instructions, as Rod and Staff does.
Control won't work, with reading. Reading cannot be controlled.
From a page on Disciplining Children at a site explaining Rod and Staff's
philosophy, right after the spanking paragraph (the five methods are Teaching,
Example, Praise, Warning and Spanking), there is discussion of, when the kids
get older, move toward withholding privileges instead of spanking. Get this
example:
-=-
Withholding privileges is more adult-like treatment. If one disobeys a proper
diet, the doctor will likely withhold pastries and sweets.-=-
These are people living with a set of life rules in which the idea that one's
doctor "withholds pastries" as an adult treatment.
http://www.anabaptists.org/bh/258.html
How far can or should unschoolers go to meet that in the middle?
We're not trying to sell unschooling here. We're giving it away. We're
helping people build it new in their own minds, to help make it work in their own
homes. Those who don't want it don't need to stand and complain about it. They
can go somewhere else where someone IS selling something, and buy that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The guidelines for this list are pretty clear, and are sent to each new member.
Read a couple of weeks before posting.
I didn't expect Susan's post to get good responses. I was impressed at how
patient and generous some were with information which is honestly available
elsewhere (Joyce is a saint). Susan had just joined the list too, and had I
been the moderator who came to her post first, I wouldn't have let it through.
So because Susan violated the list's recommendations (which are there for
good reason), she's unhappy with the response. She didn't know what to expect,
but had she followed the rules she would have had a much better idea.
Tamara, also very new to the list, wrote:
-=-I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them.-=-
Many list members seemed to think that Susan's attitude toward her son was
not leading toward loving acceptance. The truth is that the curriculum-using
community can't help her, because her problem can't be helped. A child who is
not ready to read cannot learn to read no matter HOW much he wants to, no
matter how hard he is willing to "work" and no matter how trickly clever the
teacher is. A baby too young to walk cannot walk no matter how much he wants to
or tries and no matter what the mom says, does, provides, threatens. There
are many factors and it happens when it happens. Moms can keep a baby from
learning to walk (or stall it off) but cannot induce it to happen "early."
Same with reading.
-=-I am a newbie, and debating whether or not to stay, after having
followed the "discussion" arising from Mommyof8plus1's questions about
her son's reading. I have read a lot about unschooling and am just
taking my first steps into it. My understanding is that it is a
loving, accepting way of allowing one's children to blossom and flower
in their own time according to the gifts that are in them.-=-
Susan's not a child. The responses were given in favor of her son, not for
the comfort of the mother.
Now that you've joined the list, please go to the messages and read back to
last week's discussion about emotional support. If Susan joined for emotional
support for herself, rather than to examine how and why unschooling works,
she is needy of something this list can't provide. And a desire for emotional
(or technical) support for using a curriculum and pressing him to "want to
learn" is not something this list would do anyway.
-=- I see judgement, assumptions...-=-
Maybe the policy of not allowing posts until a person has read for two
weeks should be enforced more stringently.
-=- I suspect that Susan has already concluded that sincere, supportive help
is not to be found here-=-
If she concludes that, she will be incorrect in that assumption.
-=-Following the tone of
this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it here.-=-
A day and a half of reading, posting before waiting a week or two, and
judging the list based on that is your option, but it's not the best option.
Those who have written do live out their philosophy with their children, and
they were freely and generously sharing what they KNOW to be true--that
families can live peacefully, joyfully, and children can learn to read gently and
surely in their own time. If that's not the answer Susan wanted to read, then
she came to the wrong place. But I think she knew that, and it was clear in
her first post that she didn't really intend to take our advice to heart, but
to continue with Rod and Staff and her teaching methods.
This is clearly, overtly, plainly not a Rod and Staff kind of list. Rod and
Staff is about control (the concept of the name of the curriculum, apart from
any other details, some of which can be discovered here):
http://www.anabaptists.org/tracts.html#rastracts
You can do your own google search. There is no official site, but this
curriculum is by the people who have little free tracts you can pick up at some
homeschooling conferences (certainly not the Live and Learn Unschooling
conference) that would just break your heart with their recommendations about the
treatment of children.
This doesn't mean that the family in question uses those methods. They
might not! (I hope not.)
But this list is very clearly described at yahoogroups, and those who post
before two weeks are taking their own chances AND disrupting the list.
But honestly, in this case even if the questioner decides she learned
nothing, others on the list who were unclear about whether they might calmly wait
through a child's "late reading" have probably been encouraged and enlightened,
and those who were still at the point of figuring out what they believed have
been able to see their ideas in light of those others that came by.
Every unschooler has to figure out each aspect on her own. Without
understanding it and really choosing to practice it, that aspect will be cloudy and
vague. We can't sell the instructions, as Rod and Staff does.
Control won't work, with reading. Reading cannot be controlled.
From a page on Disciplining Children at a site explaining Rod and Staff's
philosophy, right after the spanking paragraph (the five methods are Teaching,
Example, Praise, Warning and Spanking), there is discussion of, when the kids
get older, move toward withholding privileges instead of spanking. Get this
example:
-=-
Withholding privileges is more adult-like treatment. If one disobeys a proper
diet, the doctor will likely withhold pastries and sweets.-=-
These are people living with a set of life rules in which the idea that one's
doctor "withholds pastries" as an adult treatment.
http://www.anabaptists.org/bh/258.html
How far can or should unschoolers go to meet that in the middle?
We're not trying to sell unschooling here. We're giving it away. We're
helping people build it new in their own minds, to help make it work in their own
homes. Those who don't want it don't need to stand and complain about it. They
can go somewhere else where someone IS selling something, and buy that.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leavingemeraldcity
Angela, thank you for that clarification. However, where I come from,
"discussion" still involves respectful listening and thoughtful,
respectful response, not unkind attacks.
"It can be painful to have our subconscious agendas pointed out to us, but
postings, to unearth the "subconscious agendas" in another person
(unless you are a trained psychologist?) I would rather assume that
each parent has a sincere desire to help their child in the best way
they know how, and to tactfully, suuportively offer alternatives,
giving examples of how these have worked out well. Based on the
negative feedback she has received here, Susan is not only leaving
this website turned off on unschoolers, but also battered in spirit.
I will now "cease and desist" and turn elsewhere for mutually
respectful, supportive conversation. Best to you!
Tamara
--- In [email protected], "Angela"
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
"discussion" still involves respectful listening and thoughtful,
respectful response, not unkind attacks.
"It can be painful to have our subconscious agendas pointed out to us, but
> growth comes from self reflection."I'm not sure that any one of us is qualified, based on one or two
postings, to unearth the "subconscious agendas" in another person
(unless you are a trained psychologist?) I would rather assume that
each parent has a sincere desire to help their child in the best way
they know how, and to tactfully, suuportively offer alternatives,
giving examples of how these have worked out well. Based on the
negative feedback she has received here, Susan is not only leaving
this website turned off on unschoolers, but also battered in spirit.
I will now "cease and desist" and turn elsewhere for mutually
respectful, supportive conversation. Best to you!
Tamara
--- In [email protected], "Angela"
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
>here.
> <<Following the tone of
> this discussion has shaken me, as I had been hoping to find a circle
> of encouragement, support and acceptance. I'm not sure I'll find it
> Tamara>>point that
>
> Don't take it personally Tamara because it isn't personal. This is a
> discussion list not a support group and if what you are doing with your
> children is disrespectful or hurtful this is the group that will
> out to you and help you to move beyond it. (don't we all want to dobetter
> by our children?) We are here to discuss unschooling; what it is andwhat it
> isn't. When people come here with an agenda already mapped out andaren't
> open to changing then what is the purpose of the dialog? The posterMomof7
> was the first one to point out that she indeed was not an unschoolernor did
> she want to be. She also saidstop
>
> > But I want my son to learn how to read. I'm afraid that if I just
> > "teaching" him, that when other people find out he can't read theyfeel
> > will make a big deal about it. I'm afraid that this will make him
> > dumb and damage his self-esteem.Because if
>
> Which would lead me to believe it was more about her than him.
> it were only about how he felt, she would support him where he isat, not
> push him to do more than he is ready for.us, but
>
> It can be painful to have our subconscious agendas pointed out to
> growth comes from self reflection.
> Angela
> game-enthusiast@a...
>
mommyof7plus1
--- In [email protected], "Angela"
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
When people come here with an agenda already mapped out and aren't
Well, that is true if you consider wanting to learn something from
those you don't necessarily agree with an agenda.
The reason why I said I was an unschooler is because I wanted to be
honest and upfront. I don't recall ever saying that I don't want to be
an unschooler, just that I am not one.
She also said
about me. The only thing that is about me is that I do not want to see
my son suffer in any way and I am afraid he will suffer if he does not
learn how to read. So in that way it is about me. And if not wanting
my child to suffer is a crime than shoot me.
Also, many here have jumped to the conclusion that he feels dumb and
his self-esteem has already suffered. From what I can tell, that is
not the case. He does not think he is dumb. He does not think his
sister is smarter than he is. He has at times expressed frustration
over his inability to read. It has not, so far, caused any emotional
damage.
Susan
<game-enthusiast@a...> wrote:
When people come here with an agenda already mapped out and aren't
> open to changing then what is the purpose of the dialog? The posterMomof7
> was the first one to point out that she indeed was not an unschoolernor did
> she want to be.So now, among other things, I'm being accused of having an agenda.
Well, that is true if you consider wanting to learn something from
those you don't necessarily agree with an agenda.
The reason why I said I was an unschooler is because I wanted to be
honest and upfront. I don't recall ever saying that I don't want to be
an unschooler, just that I am not one.
She also said
>stop
> > But I want my son to learn how to read. I'm afraid that if I just
> > "teaching" him, that when other people find out he can't read theyfeel
> > will make a big deal about it. I'm afraid that this will make him
> > dumb and damage his self-esteem.It is interesting that so many think that my concern about my son is
>
> Which would lead me to believe it was more about her than him.
about me. The only thing that is about me is that I do not want to see
my son suffer in any way and I am afraid he will suffer if he does not
learn how to read. So in that way it is about me. And if not wanting
my child to suffer is a crime than shoot me.
Also, many here have jumped to the conclusion that he feels dumb and
his self-esteem has already suffered. From what I can tell, that is
not the case. He does not think he is dumb. He does not think his
sister is smarter than he is. He has at times expressed frustration
over his inability to read. It has not, so far, caused any emotional
damage.
Susan
Betsy Hill
** Don't take it personally Tamara because it isn't personal. This is a
discussion list not a support group and if what you are doing with your
children is disrespectful or hurtful this is the group that will point that
out to you and help you to move beyond it.**
Right.
Reading lessons for an unwilling or unhappy kid are an especial hot
button. (ANY kid, not one particular kid.)
Most of us here believe that pushing reading lessons (and other kinds of
lessons) on a kid who is either unready or unwilling (or both) can do
two kinds of harm. It will very likely *harm the child's belief in his
own competence* and it is also likely to *harm the quality of the
relationship between mother and child* if significant chunks of time
together are spent in unrewarding work and unpleasant conflict.
Betsy
discussion list not a support group and if what you are doing with your
children is disrespectful or hurtful this is the group that will point that
out to you and help you to move beyond it.**
Right.
Reading lessons for an unwilling or unhappy kid are an especial hot
button. (ANY kid, not one particular kid.)
Most of us here believe that pushing reading lessons (and other kinds of
lessons) on a kid who is either unready or unwilling (or both) can do
two kinds of harm. It will very likely *harm the child's belief in his
own competence* and it is also likely to *harm the quality of the
relationship between mother and child* if significant chunks of time
together are spent in unrewarding work and unpleasant conflict.
Betsy
[email protected]
> I'm not sure that any one of us is qualified, based on one or twoWe're reading English. How might a trained psychologist (and I think there
> postings, to unearth the "subconscious agendas" in another person
> (unless you are a trained psychologist?)
>
are a few here, but they keep it quiet because it doesn't matter) read this
differently?:
"What do you do with a child who doesn't want to learn?"
The mother wanted help making a child want to learn.
She wanted to know how to teach a child who doesn't want to learn.
Native speakers of English could deduce that from the title of the post and
the text of the post.
If I come here and write "My husband is a lying scumbag," would you
subsequently pooh pooh those who suggested perhaps I might be having issues with my
husband's integrity and that it could impact on the peace of my home? [For
the record, that was a fictional example, and my husband is not in any way a
liar nor a scumbag. But if I said it without a disclaimer, it would be
reasonable for people to assume that I had chosen those words myself for some
reason, and had posted it in public knowingly and purposefully. It wouldn't take a
psychologist, a detective or a psychic to make reasonable inferences.]
-=-I would rather assume that
each parent has a sincere desire to help their child in the best way
they know how-=-
Yeah, but an even MORE important assumption is that the person knowingly came
here, joined this list, wrote a post, and hit "send." From that I assume
the person knew enough about the list to know what to expect, and that the
person wanted the input of people on this list.
You, Tamara, may offer your own advice. But you may not criticize the input
of the others or the tone of the list without violating the guidelines which
you should have received by e-mail when you joined, that are in a file at the
Yahoogroups page associated with this list are also here:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/info
I've let two posts through, but now you need to follow the guidelines.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/05 9:02:06 AM, scraven@... writes:
suffering from not being able to learn it. He's not ready. We have pointed
out ways for you to avoid the outside "suffering" (help him with his
music--did you read the stories about Holly? She learned a whole script, a whole
book, made a public speech, in the presence of readers who did NONE of that as
well as she did).
-=-And if not wanting
my child to suffer is a crime than shoot me.-=-
None of us wants your child to suffer.
You seem to be willing to continue the suffering, and we're recommending
against that.
-=-Also, many here have jumped to the conclusion that he feels dumb and
his self-esteem has already suffered. From what I can tell, that is
not the case. He does not think he is dumb. He does not think his
sister is smarter than he is. He has at times expressed frustration
over his inability to read. It has not, so far, caused any emotional
damage.-=-
It's not a jump. You told us yourself. He's ruining homeschooling at our
house. You consider him to be a child who doesn't want to learn. He WILL
be picking up on those things. His emotional damage is his, and you don't
get to declare that there is none and have it be binding on him.
There is not a person here, I think, who hasn't dealt with the emotional
damage of a child (either herself, her own child, a friend's child, a relative).
We spend our time here and many elsewhere in person as well helping cut down
on the emotional damage caused by harsh parental and scholastic practices.
We help, freely and voluntarily, to provide other parents with ideas for how
to make their children's lives more peaceful and respectful and joyful.
If you don't want ideas like that, then I guess you've taken from this list
all you need.
-=- I have come to the conclusion that many homeschoolers "live their lives
in quiet
desperation."-=-
I will repeat this: Unschoolers do not live lives of quiet desperation.
We have been trying to help show you how to move away from quiet desperation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The only thing that is about me is that I do not want to seeWe're trying to point out what you already are figuring out yourself: He's
> my son suffer in any way and I am afraid he will suffer if he does not
> learn how to read.
>
suffering from not being able to learn it. He's not ready. We have pointed
out ways for you to avoid the outside "suffering" (help him with his
music--did you read the stories about Holly? She learned a whole script, a whole
book, made a public speech, in the presence of readers who did NONE of that as
well as she did).
-=-And if not wanting
my child to suffer is a crime than shoot me.-=-
None of us wants your child to suffer.
You seem to be willing to continue the suffering, and we're recommending
against that.
-=-Also, many here have jumped to the conclusion that he feels dumb and
his self-esteem has already suffered. From what I can tell, that is
not the case. He does not think he is dumb. He does not think his
sister is smarter than he is. He has at times expressed frustration
over his inability to read. It has not, so far, caused any emotional
damage.-=-
It's not a jump. You told us yourself. He's ruining homeschooling at our
house. You consider him to be a child who doesn't want to learn. He WILL
be picking up on those things. His emotional damage is his, and you don't
get to declare that there is none and have it be binding on him.
There is not a person here, I think, who hasn't dealt with the emotional
damage of a child (either herself, her own child, a friend's child, a relative).
We spend our time here and many elsewhere in person as well helping cut down
on the emotional damage caused by harsh parental and scholastic practices.
We help, freely and voluntarily, to provide other parents with ideas for how
to make their children's lives more peaceful and respectful and joyful.
If you don't want ideas like that, then I guess you've taken from this list
all you need.
-=- I have come to the conclusion that many homeschoolers "live their lives
in quiet
desperation."-=-
I will repeat this: Unschoolers do not live lives of quiet desperation.
We have been trying to help show you how to move away from quiet desperation.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vicki A. Dennis
I would add a third harm of increasing the time before a child becomes a
competent reader.............the harm of creating problems (perhaps even
physical ones) that will have to be undone before the child eventually
becomes a reader.
I'm not much of one for spelling lessons either :-)
vicki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Betsy Hill
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] living out your philosophy
Most of us here believe that pushing reading lessons (and other kinds of
lessons) on a kid who is either unready or unwilling (or both) can do
two kinds of harm. It will very likely *harm the child's belief in his
own competence* and it is also likely to *harm the quality of the
relationship between mother and child* if significant chunks of time
together are spent in unrewarding work and unpleasant conflict.
Betsy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
competent reader.............the harm of creating problems (perhaps even
physical ones) that will have to be undone before the child eventually
becomes a reader.
I'm not much of one for spelling lessons either :-)
vicki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Betsy Hill
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] living out your philosophy
Most of us here believe that pushing reading lessons (and other kinds of
lessons) on a kid who is either unready or unwilling (or both) can do
two kinds of harm. It will very likely *harm the child's belief in his
own competence* and it is also likely to *harm the quality of the
relationship between mother and child* if significant chunks of time
together are spent in unrewarding work and unpleasant conflict.
Betsy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]