What to do?
jillianmarie817
I don't post often, but we've run into an issue that I could really
use some help with.
My kids (8 and 6.5) came home from school last February. We've never
limited food and I've always tried to avoid saying no
automatically. The only thing left, really, was bedtimes.
Not "getting" how to do it gradually, I told them they could go to
bed when their bodies told them they were tired. I asked them to
please be respectful of the people in the house who were sleeping.
Well, it worked some nights and not others. They'd be downstairs
watching TV and playing games, getting too loud. I'd wake up
numerous times through the night, tell them that they are waking me
up. My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms. Sometimes, they'd
decide to stay up and go in seperate rooms.
Lately, it's just not working. We've talked during the day about
how everyone needs sleep, I will mention I'm grouchy because I'm
tired cause I woke up so many times because of the noise. My dh
won't have energy to play/roughhouse after work because he's tired
from being woken up, too. Not in a condescending mean way, just as
the reason why we are not up for something. And not all the time,
just when that really is why.
I honestly don't have a problem with them being up very late. It
actually works out quite well, my younger two fall asleep with my
dh (usually around 9ish), I clean up around the house for the night
and then I get to play
games, read, watch shows with the bigger kids that I'm not able to
do when the little ones are up. I go to bed when anywhere from
midnight to 2am and get
some time with the little ones before the big ones get up. (they
stay up after me even, though.)
We've recently decided together that after 9pm it's "quiet time" -
cards,
computer, movies, whatever - just quietly. I read how Sandra
says "Yes, you can...if you (whatever)". I've told them "you can
stay up, if you're quiet". So, my question is, after you talk about
why, come up with ideas and they're still having a hard time being
quiet, what do you do? If they can be quiet they can stay up...so
if they're not quiet, they can't. How do I enforce that? We've
said before, "okay you're not being quiet, lights out". But I feel
like I'm punishing them. Is that okay because its something we all
agreed to? Sometimes they groan, sometimes they agree and sometimes
they come up with another idea (seperating or whatever). We've
tried talking about it before bed, what will help you be quiet?
Lights out and a movie together?
Sorry if I'm rambling, last night was one of those nights! I know
they need time to get used to that freedom and I realize I didn't
start it off on the right foot by throwing away bedtime, but it has
been almost a year and the issue isn't really that I want them to go
to sleep, it's more about consideration, I guess - we need our
sleep! I really feel like I've tried everything...any advice or
suggestions please. Constructive criticism welcomed :)
Jill, in PA
ds8, dd6.5, ds3.5, ds1
use some help with.
My kids (8 and 6.5) came home from school last February. We've never
limited food and I've always tried to avoid saying no
automatically. The only thing left, really, was bedtimes.
Not "getting" how to do it gradually, I told them they could go to
bed when their bodies told them they were tired. I asked them to
please be respectful of the people in the house who were sleeping.
Well, it worked some nights and not others. They'd be downstairs
watching TV and playing games, getting too loud. I'd wake up
numerous times through the night, tell them that they are waking me
up. My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms. Sometimes, they'd
decide to stay up and go in seperate rooms.
Lately, it's just not working. We've talked during the day about
how everyone needs sleep, I will mention I'm grouchy because I'm
tired cause I woke up so many times because of the noise. My dh
won't have energy to play/roughhouse after work because he's tired
from being woken up, too. Not in a condescending mean way, just as
the reason why we are not up for something. And not all the time,
just when that really is why.
I honestly don't have a problem with them being up very late. It
actually works out quite well, my younger two fall asleep with my
dh (usually around 9ish), I clean up around the house for the night
and then I get to play
games, read, watch shows with the bigger kids that I'm not able to
do when the little ones are up. I go to bed when anywhere from
midnight to 2am and get
some time with the little ones before the big ones get up. (they
stay up after me even, though.)
We've recently decided together that after 9pm it's "quiet time" -
cards,
computer, movies, whatever - just quietly. I read how Sandra
says "Yes, you can...if you (whatever)". I've told them "you can
stay up, if you're quiet". So, my question is, after you talk about
why, come up with ideas and they're still having a hard time being
quiet, what do you do? If they can be quiet they can stay up...so
if they're not quiet, they can't. How do I enforce that? We've
said before, "okay you're not being quiet, lights out". But I feel
like I'm punishing them. Is that okay because its something we all
agreed to? Sometimes they groan, sometimes they agree and sometimes
they come up with another idea (seperating or whatever). We've
tried talking about it before bed, what will help you be quiet?
Lights out and a movie together?
Sorry if I'm rambling, last night was one of those nights! I know
they need time to get used to that freedom and I realize I didn't
start it off on the right foot by throwing away bedtime, but it has
been almost a year and the issue isn't really that I want them to go
to sleep, it's more about consideration, I guess - we need our
sleep! I really feel like I've tried everything...any advice or
suggestions please. Constructive criticism welcomed :)
Jill, in PA
ds8, dd6.5, ds3.5, ds1
Deb
A couple of thoughts -
are there ways to make it quieter in general? for example, can the
TV be moved to the family room rather than the living room if the
family room is farther from the sleeping areas? can the doors to the
sleeping areas be closed? add quilts and wall hangings to the walls
to add sound proofing? can you get headphones for the TV (with
splitter so two can use them at one time)? stuff like that. Oh, and
look for a TV with self-regulating volume, that way it
doesn't 'suddenly' get loud when a commercial comes on or the
channel or program changes (I hate it that some programs are really
quiet and then the next program starts and blasts out).
and, if the discussion and agreement were made by the family as a
whole (the kids had full input on the subject), then there needs to
be a follow up saying "this is what we discussed and agreed on. the
current arrangement isn't working. here are the problem areas. what
can we do about these things?" Maybe set in place specific steps -
if they get loud and you or DH go out to them, they get a warning.
If it happens again, they need to change what they are doing. If it
happens a 3rd time, they need to head to their beds. Something like
that - work out amongst you what is reasonable for all concerned.
Since you tend to stay up later with them, maybe it would be
reasonable for your family that when you (mom) head to bed, the kids
who are still awake need to head to their rooms for 'quiet time' -
perhaps a TV in their room where they can watch quietly if it would
be less disturbing than the one in the main room(?). We don't
generally have this issue since DS (7) is an only - if he wants to
stay up, that's fine, he watches TV downstairs and it doesn't
generally disturb us upstairs (on rare occasions, we pop down and
ask to have the volume lowered but that is more related to the
program or channel issues rather than him suddenly making it louder
himself).
Good luck
--Deb
are there ways to make it quieter in general? for example, can the
TV be moved to the family room rather than the living room if the
family room is farther from the sleeping areas? can the doors to the
sleeping areas be closed? add quilts and wall hangings to the walls
to add sound proofing? can you get headphones for the TV (with
splitter so two can use them at one time)? stuff like that. Oh, and
look for a TV with self-regulating volume, that way it
doesn't 'suddenly' get loud when a commercial comes on or the
channel or program changes (I hate it that some programs are really
quiet and then the next program starts and blasts out).
and, if the discussion and agreement were made by the family as a
whole (the kids had full input on the subject), then there needs to
be a follow up saying "this is what we discussed and agreed on. the
current arrangement isn't working. here are the problem areas. what
can we do about these things?" Maybe set in place specific steps -
if they get loud and you or DH go out to them, they get a warning.
If it happens again, they need to change what they are doing. If it
happens a 3rd time, they need to head to their beds. Something like
that - work out amongst you what is reasonable for all concerned.
Since you tend to stay up later with them, maybe it would be
reasonable for your family that when you (mom) head to bed, the kids
who are still awake need to head to their rooms for 'quiet time' -
perhaps a TV in their room where they can watch quietly if it would
be less disturbing than the one in the main room(?). We don't
generally have this issue since DS (7) is an only - if he wants to
stay up, that's fine, he watches TV downstairs and it doesn't
generally disturb us upstairs (on rare occasions, we pop down and
ask to have the volume lowered but that is more related to the
program or channel issues rather than him suddenly making it louder
himself).
Good luck
--Deb
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/05 12:27:07 PM, jillianmarie@... writes:
worse than you would walk over them by setting a by-the-clock bedtime.
A rule that says they can only stay up if they're quiet is NOT an arbitrary
rule, it's a for-good-reasons, real deal that they make with you to stay up.
-=-My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms.-=-
One single upset-and-stomp is enough to call the whole deal off, in my
opinion. IF they want to go to bed when they want to instead of when you say to,
THEN they need to do it without disturbing ANYone else (you, neighbors, the
dog...).
-=-My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms. Sometimes, they'd
decide to stay up and go in seperate rooms. -=-
At that point, I wouldn't have left it to their decision. If someone was up
more than ONCE, turned off a TV and said "go to bed," how was it they decided
to stay up?
-=- We've talked during the day about
how everyone needs sleep, I will mention I'm grouchy because I'm
tired cause I woke up so many times because of the noise. My dh
won't have energy to play/roughhouse after work because he's tired
from being woken up, too. Not in a condescending mean way, just as
the reason why we are not up for something. And not all the time,
just when that really is why.
-=-
Sounds like you put the kids in charge of the house, but someone is still in
charge of the house, and it's not you.
You didn't move toward mindfulness, you threw out rules and the wound-up-kids
launched themselves fast and far.
-=- I read how Sandra
says "Yes, you can...if you (whatever)". I've told them "you can
stay up, if you're quiet". So, my question is, after you talk about
why, come up with ideas and they're still having a hard time being
quiet, what do you do?-=-
Then I tell them to go to bed, and the next night I might (depends on various
factors) ask them to just stay in their rooms instead of being in the den or
library the next night, so I could make up missed sleep.
-=- If they can be quiet they can stay up...so
if they're not quiet, they can't. How do I enforce that? We've
said before, "okay you're not being quiet, lights out". But I feel
like I'm punishing them. -=-
If they're not keeping their deal, they're not keeping their deal.
How is it a punishment if you say If..then and they botch "if"?
Then-not should kick in without you even having to say so.
-=- Is that okay because its something we all agreed to? -=-
My kids can stay up because Keith and I said they could.
They can go to sleep whenever they want to; we're not MAKING them stay up.
But it's our house, and we have more obligations to be places at certain times
(except the boys' jobs, now), and we can take back privileges and freedoms we
granted. We've rarely done it, but we've never said "Gosh, we don't have
the right to tell you what to do." We say "Do your parents' friends let them
do X?" The answer's usually "no," and with that reminder they remember to
appreciate the VAST freedoms they have.
-=- We've
tried talking about it before bed, what will help you be quiet?
Lights out and a movie together? -=-
If they can't figure it out, they might not be old enough to make the
decision, then.
-=-I really feel like I've tried everything...any advice or
suggestions please. -=-
You don't seem to have tried "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOKE ME UP AGAIN! GET IN
THE BED RIGHT NOW."
Seriously, they're walking on you.
It was easier for us, starting gradually from birth, but even now, if they
wake me up irresponsibly and inconsiderately, I'm not going to ask them any
polite questions about what I can do to help them calm down.
I don't wake them up rudely, and because of that they don't wake me up rudely
either.
There have been times when there were latenight gaming sessions and other
kids were over and they'd get loud more than once and I've told them and company
too to get to a stopping place and go to sleep (other boys were staying over)
and if they woke me up again, the game would have to be at [whichever other
kid's] house the next time. They did NOT want to go to the other kids' house,
because the mom would've made them stop by midnight and go home, so because
they WANTED this location, they got very, very quiet the couple of times I set
the ultimatum on them.
-=--=-ds8, dd6.5, ds3.5, -=-
These kids are very, very young to be letting them stay up. I'd be more
likely (especially if they had had bedtimes before) to let them listen to music
or watch a movie FROM A BED (floor bed or in a room), or play on the computer,
but that would be about all. If you've done it for a year, tha tmeans you
told a five year old to stay up til whenever? And a seven year old?
There are lots of steps between relaxing arbitrary inflexible rules and
having total anarchy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Well, it worked some nights and not others. They'd be downstairsOn the second waking-up, if you allowed for a third one they walked over you
> watching TV and playing games, getting too loud. I'd wake up
> numerous times through the night, tell them that they are waking me
> up.
>
worse than you would walk over them by setting a by-the-clock bedtime.
A rule that says they can only stay up if they're quiet is NOT an arbitrary
rule, it's a for-good-reasons, real deal that they make with you to stay up.
-=-My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms.-=-
One single upset-and-stomp is enough to call the whole deal off, in my
opinion. IF they want to go to bed when they want to instead of when you say to,
THEN they need to do it without disturbing ANYone else (you, neighbors, the
dog...).
-=-My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go to
bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms. Sometimes, they'd
decide to stay up and go in seperate rooms. -=-
At that point, I wouldn't have left it to their decision. If someone was up
more than ONCE, turned off a TV and said "go to bed," how was it they decided
to stay up?
-=- We've talked during the day about
how everyone needs sleep, I will mention I'm grouchy because I'm
tired cause I woke up so many times because of the noise. My dh
won't have energy to play/roughhouse after work because he's tired
from being woken up, too. Not in a condescending mean way, just as
the reason why we are not up for something. And not all the time,
just when that really is why.
-=-
Sounds like you put the kids in charge of the house, but someone is still in
charge of the house, and it's not you.
You didn't move toward mindfulness, you threw out rules and the wound-up-kids
launched themselves fast and far.
-=- I read how Sandra
says "Yes, you can...if you (whatever)". I've told them "you can
stay up, if you're quiet". So, my question is, after you talk about
why, come up with ideas and they're still having a hard time being
quiet, what do you do?-=-
Then I tell them to go to bed, and the next night I might (depends on various
factors) ask them to just stay in their rooms instead of being in the den or
library the next night, so I could make up missed sleep.
-=- If they can be quiet they can stay up...so
if they're not quiet, they can't. How do I enforce that? We've
said before, "okay you're not being quiet, lights out". But I feel
like I'm punishing them. -=-
If they're not keeping their deal, they're not keeping their deal.
How is it a punishment if you say If..then and they botch "if"?
Then-not should kick in without you even having to say so.
-=- Is that okay because its something we all agreed to? -=-
My kids can stay up because Keith and I said they could.
They can go to sleep whenever they want to; we're not MAKING them stay up.
But it's our house, and we have more obligations to be places at certain times
(except the boys' jobs, now), and we can take back privileges and freedoms we
granted. We've rarely done it, but we've never said "Gosh, we don't have
the right to tell you what to do." We say "Do your parents' friends let them
do X?" The answer's usually "no," and with that reminder they remember to
appreciate the VAST freedoms they have.
-=- We've
tried talking about it before bed, what will help you be quiet?
Lights out and a movie together? -=-
If they can't figure it out, they might not be old enough to make the
decision, then.
-=-I really feel like I've tried everything...any advice or
suggestions please. -=-
You don't seem to have tried "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOKE ME UP AGAIN! GET IN
THE BED RIGHT NOW."
Seriously, they're walking on you.
It was easier for us, starting gradually from birth, but even now, if they
wake me up irresponsibly and inconsiderately, I'm not going to ask them any
polite questions about what I can do to help them calm down.
I don't wake them up rudely, and because of that they don't wake me up rudely
either.
There have been times when there were latenight gaming sessions and other
kids were over and they'd get loud more than once and I've told them and company
too to get to a stopping place and go to sleep (other boys were staying over)
and if they woke me up again, the game would have to be at [whichever other
kid's] house the next time. They did NOT want to go to the other kids' house,
because the mom would've made them stop by midnight and go home, so because
they WANTED this location, they got very, very quiet the couple of times I set
the ultimatum on them.
-=--=-ds8, dd6.5, ds3.5, -=-
These kids are very, very young to be letting them stay up. I'd be more
likely (especially if they had had bedtimes before) to let them listen to music
or watch a movie FROM A BED (floor bed or in a room), or play on the computer,
but that would be about all. If you've done it for a year, tha tmeans you
told a five year old to stay up til whenever? And a seven year old?
There are lots of steps between relaxing arbitrary inflexible rules and
having total anarchy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jillianmarie817
> -=-My dh would wake up and turn the tv off and tell them to go tosomeone was up
> bed, they'd get upset and stomp to their rooms. Sometimes, they'd
> decide to stay up and go in seperate rooms. -=-
>
> At that point, I wouldn't have left it to their decision. If
> more than ONCE, turned off a TV and said "go to bed," how was itthey decided
> to stay up?*****
I should've seperated those two sentences. The second one was more
about how they came up with ideas to be quiet. No, once my dh says
lights out, they might get upset but they do do it.
>*****
> Seriously, they're walking on you.
That pretty much sums up all you said and how I feel.
I read a whole lot but for some reason, I didn't get how to
implement it slowly - I really don't know how that escaped me. I re-
read the same articles and see it very clearly now. I know I
should've done it differently. I just don't know how to get it back
to normal without going backwards, ya know?
Thanks!
jillianmarie817
--- In [email protected], "Deb"
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
Oh, and
times.
Thanks for the suggestions :)
Jill
<debra.rossing@m...> wrote:
>***The headphones are a great idea! I'll have to check some out.
> A couple of thoughts -
>
> are there ways to make it quieter in general?
Oh, and
> look for a TV with self-regulating volume, that way itreally
> doesn't 'suddenly' get loud when a commercial comes on or the
> channel or program changes (I hate it that some programs are
> quiet and then the next program starts and blasts out).***I hate that, too! Even when I'm not sleeping...
>to
> and, if the discussion and agreement were made by the family as a
> whole (the kids had full input on the subject), then there needs
> be a follow up saying "this is what we discussed and agreed on.the
> current arrangement isn't working. here are the problem areas.what
> can we do about these things?" Maybe set in place specific steps -it
> if they get loud and you or DH go out to them, they get a warning.
> If it happens again, they need to change what they are doing. If
> happens a 3rd time, they need to head to their beds. Somethinglike
> that - work out amongst you what is reasonable for all concerned.***We do that already, and I just can't keep getting up so many
times.
> Since you tend to stay up later with them, maybe it would bekids
> reasonable for your family that when you (mom) head to bed, the
> who are still awake need to head to their rooms for 'quiet time' -***That's a good idea.
Thanks for the suggestions :)
Jill
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/05 10:32:55 PM, jillianmarie@... writes:
I wrote mine before I saw how very young they are, though.
While it's true my kids were up and down and not on a sleep schedule even
while they were little, it developed as gradually as everything else in their
lives, as they got old enough to do things for themselves and to make binding
deals (like "yes, I'll be quiet").
Gradually it got bigger and looser and freer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Seriously, they're walking on you.-----------------
>
> *****
> That pretty much sums up all you said and how I feel.
>
>
I wrote mine before I saw how very young they are, though.
While it's true my kids were up and down and not on a sleep schedule even
while they were little, it developed as gradually as everything else in their
lives, as they got old enough to do things for themselves and to make binding
deals (like "yes, I'll be quiet").
Gradually it got bigger and looser and freer.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
Pondering this a bit more and thought about something else....during
that time when you are still awake and DH and the littlest ones are in
bed, are you making it a transitional, gradually quieting down time or
is it business as usual, cleaning, talking, playing, etc? Maybe
creating a wind down time would be helpful rather than going from
daytime activity and noise level to quiet rapidly. For instance, at
our house, even though DS can choose to stay up, he generally wants to
spend some time snuggling with me before I fall asleep (I'm first to
bed since I'm the one who gets up for work in the morning). He may
snuggle and fall asleep or he may snuggle then get back up as I fall
asleep. Either way, we've done some winding down from the day so it is
just easier to relax and be quiet. Might be a way to rein things in a
bit without going back to set bedtimes.
It was kind of interesting when we got back from the conference since
DH and I brought the flu back with us. So, we were falling asleep way
early and DS would turn off the TV in our room, turn out any lights,
and take himself off to his room whenever he was ready.
--Deb
that time when you are still awake and DH and the littlest ones are in
bed, are you making it a transitional, gradually quieting down time or
is it business as usual, cleaning, talking, playing, etc? Maybe
creating a wind down time would be helpful rather than going from
daytime activity and noise level to quiet rapidly. For instance, at
our house, even though DS can choose to stay up, he generally wants to
spend some time snuggling with me before I fall asleep (I'm first to
bed since I'm the one who gets up for work in the morning). He may
snuggle and fall asleep or he may snuggle then get back up as I fall
asleep. Either way, we've done some winding down from the day so it is
just easier to relax and be quiet. Might be a way to rein things in a
bit without going back to set bedtimes.
It was kind of interesting when we got back from the conference since
DH and I brought the flu back with us. So, we were falling asleep way
early and DS would turn off the TV in our room, turn out any lights,
and take himself off to his room whenever he was ready.
--Deb
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/26/05 6:14:54 AM, debra.rossing@... writes:
I suppose a big part of why my kids have gone to sleep when sleepy but not
been wildly crazy is because every time they stayed up it was a one-shot (in a
way, when they were little). They would say they didn't want to go to bed
yet, when I was going to sleep with the nursing baby. Nursing a baby to sleep
isn't something you have to SAY ("Go to bed.") They Want to nurse, and they
fall asleep. Often the older sibling will fall asleep then too, because
there's soft music or a book being read, and that's EASY. But when one gets old
enough to want to stay up, and you make a deal with him, know what he's going
to be doing, and he knows if he isn't cool and mature he might be told no the
next time, then he's cool. And gradually from that developed the days when
Kirby might still not be home at 3:00 a.m. but I was sure he was being cool and
quiet, somewhere, and that he wasn't doing something crazy and irresponsible.
Because it came gradually, there was no celebratory WOOHOO!!!! moment when
the old bedtime passed the child was FREE! Free to celebrate being awake at
11:00 p.m.!!!
So in a small model of exactly WHY it's good to give kids freedoms while
they're kids, so that they don't escape their bonds at the age of 18 (or whenever
they leave for college or whatever) and fly as far and crazily AWAY from what
their families made them do or forbade them to do that they Juse Go
CRAZY!~!!!!!!
To avoid "crazy," they need to be making lots of decisions earlier.
To avoid food binge and irresponsibly rejecting all vegetables and salads
because now they don't "HAVE TO" eat them, let them turn them down earlier. Let
them eat ice cream for breakfast if they want to now, and they'll probably
really never imagine that it might be a cool act of maturity to eat ice cream
for breakfast. <g>
To avoid adult avoidance of books and learning, don't make it a powerless
kid-thing to "have to" study from books and to prove learning.
It's better for an eight year old to be wild at night than an eighteen year
old. But still, if you can make clearest above all else that nighttime needs
to be a quiet time, and that they can ONLY stay up if they maintain that
quiet, only then can they really start listening to their own bodies to see if
they're asleep. If sleep had been something children "had to" do and now they're
told they "don't have to," they're "being adult" by staying up.
Their motive is not to be up because they want to be, but because the gate
was lifted and they rushed out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Pondering this a bit more and thought about something else....duringI was thinking last night too, and Deb's ideas are good.
> that time when you are still awake and DH and the littlest ones are in
> bed, are you making it a transitional, gradually quieting down time or
> is it business as usual, cleaning, talking, playing, etc?
>
I suppose a big part of why my kids have gone to sleep when sleepy but not
been wildly crazy is because every time they stayed up it was a one-shot (in a
way, when they were little). They would say they didn't want to go to bed
yet, when I was going to sleep with the nursing baby. Nursing a baby to sleep
isn't something you have to SAY ("Go to bed.") They Want to nurse, and they
fall asleep. Often the older sibling will fall asleep then too, because
there's soft music or a book being read, and that's EASY. But when one gets old
enough to want to stay up, and you make a deal with him, know what he's going
to be doing, and he knows if he isn't cool and mature he might be told no the
next time, then he's cool. And gradually from that developed the days when
Kirby might still not be home at 3:00 a.m. but I was sure he was being cool and
quiet, somewhere, and that he wasn't doing something crazy and irresponsible.
Because it came gradually, there was no celebratory WOOHOO!!!! moment when
the old bedtime passed the child was FREE! Free to celebrate being awake at
11:00 p.m.!!!
So in a small model of exactly WHY it's good to give kids freedoms while
they're kids, so that they don't escape their bonds at the age of 18 (or whenever
they leave for college or whatever) and fly as far and crazily AWAY from what
their families made them do or forbade them to do that they Juse Go
CRAZY!~!!!!!!
To avoid "crazy," they need to be making lots of decisions earlier.
To avoid food binge and irresponsibly rejecting all vegetables and salads
because now they don't "HAVE TO" eat them, let them turn them down earlier. Let
them eat ice cream for breakfast if they want to now, and they'll probably
really never imagine that it might be a cool act of maturity to eat ice cream
for breakfast. <g>
To avoid adult avoidance of books and learning, don't make it a powerless
kid-thing to "have to" study from books and to prove learning.
It's better for an eight year old to be wild at night than an eighteen year
old. But still, if you can make clearest above all else that nighttime needs
to be a quiet time, and that they can ONLY stay up if they maintain that
quiet, only then can they really start listening to their own bodies to see if
they're asleep. If sleep had been something children "had to" do and now they're
told they "don't have to," they're "being adult" by staying up.
Their motive is not to be up because they want to be, but because the gate
was lifted and they rushed out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
We did have bedtime for DS when he was littler (toddler to almost
age 5). It was one of the last bits of stuff we mulled over and
discussed (me and DH) and one of the few 'rule based' things anyhow.
When we decided to drop bedtime, we just went about things like
usual in the evening and at about my usual time, I said I was
heading off to bed but I'd probably be awake reading for a little
while. DH headed up with me. DS was watching TV and said he wanted
to watch more because there were back to back episodes of whatever
it was. We said OK just turn out the light and turn off the TV when
you come up. An hour or so later, he came up. Those first couple of
nights of us saying OK, he did stay up later by about 2 hrs. Then he
started coming up with us more of the time. A whole dynamic changed
when we got a TV (w/cable) for our bedroom and moved the DVD player
in there. Now he can watch TV and snuggle with me while I doze off
so he doesn't have to be downstairs alone. Next on the agenda for
this winter is a TV for his room (we'll likely move the TV, DVD/VCR
and PS2 from the basement to his room for the winter - basement is
nice and cool for summer but barely heated in winter).
--Deb
age 5). It was one of the last bits of stuff we mulled over and
discussed (me and DH) and one of the few 'rule based' things anyhow.
When we decided to drop bedtime, we just went about things like
usual in the evening and at about my usual time, I said I was
heading off to bed but I'd probably be awake reading for a little
while. DH headed up with me. DS was watching TV and said he wanted
to watch more because there were back to back episodes of whatever
it was. We said OK just turn out the light and turn off the TV when
you come up. An hour or so later, he came up. Those first couple of
nights of us saying OK, he did stay up later by about 2 hrs. Then he
started coming up with us more of the time. A whole dynamic changed
when we got a TV (w/cable) for our bedroom and moved the DVD player
in there. Now he can watch TV and snuggle with me while I doze off
so he doesn't have to be downstairs alone. Next on the agenda for
this winter is a TV for his room (we'll likely move the TV, DVD/VCR
and PS2 from the basement to his room for the winter - basement is
nice and cool for summer but barely heated in winter).
--Deb
jillianmarie817
Yes, its definately transitional. Dh goes up with the littlest
guys, they fall asleep with him. I do whatever I need to do for the
next day, pick up around the house...the oldest two get something to
eat, brush teeth, pj's if they want. Then we play a card game or
read or watch tv shows, like I said I need them to stay up late for
this time with them without the little guys around. (Plus, I get
the morning with the younger two.) Lights are off or low, when I go
to bed and they just stay up watching tv. If they just got a new
game or something, then they'd probably play that. Usually they're
in one of their rooms, sometimes they stay downstairs. They're not
up running around.
When they first came home from school, they'd stay up REAL late.
Which was fine, because things mellowed out as they got used to it.
I had said in the one post that it did feel like they are walking
all over me, but when I think about it, it's more like consideration
is the problem. I don't really care how late they stay up, I know
they're okay...they aren't doing anything unsafe. It's just
sometimes they get loud chatting or the tv is too loud.
Just clarifying a little bit. Thanks for all the suggestion. I'm
definately going to get headphones, for sure!
Jill
guys, they fall asleep with him. I do whatever I need to do for the
next day, pick up around the house...the oldest two get something to
eat, brush teeth, pj's if they want. Then we play a card game or
read or watch tv shows, like I said I need them to stay up late for
this time with them without the little guys around. (Plus, I get
the morning with the younger two.) Lights are off or low, when I go
to bed and they just stay up watching tv. If they just got a new
game or something, then they'd probably play that. Usually they're
in one of their rooms, sometimes they stay downstairs. They're not
up running around.
When they first came home from school, they'd stay up REAL late.
Which was fine, because things mellowed out as they got used to it.
I had said in the one post that it did feel like they are walking
all over me, but when I think about it, it's more like consideration
is the problem. I don't really care how late they stay up, I know
they're okay...they aren't doing anything unsafe. It's just
sometimes they get loud chatting or the tv is too loud.
Just clarifying a little bit. Thanks for all the suggestion. I'm
definately going to get headphones, for sure!
Jill
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/26/05 6:14:54 AM, debra.rossing@m... writes:
>
>
> > Pondering this a bit more and thought about something
else....during
> > that time when you are still awake and DH and the littlest ones
are in
> > bed, are you making it a transitional, gradually quieting down
time or
> > is it business as usual, cleaning, talking, playing, etc?
> >
>
> I was thinking last night too, and Deb's ideas are good.
>
> I suppose a big part of why my kids have gone to sleep when sleepy
but not
> been wildly crazy is because every time they stayed up it was a
one-shot (in a
> way, when they were little). They would say they didn't want to
go to bed
> yet, when I was going to sleep with the nursing baby. Nursing a
baby to sleep
> isn't something you have to SAY ("Go to bed.") They Want to
nurse, and they
> fall asleep. Often the older sibling will fall asleep then too,
because
> there's soft music or a book being read, and that's EASY. But
when one gets old
> enough to want to stay up, and you make a deal with him, know what
he's going
> to be doing, and he knows if he isn't cool and mature he might be
told no the
> next time, then he's cool. And gradually from that developed the
days when
> Kirby might still not be home at 3:00 a.m. but I was sure he was
being cool and
> quiet, somewhere, and that he wasn't doing something crazy and
irresponsible.
>
>
> Because it came gradually, there was no celebratory WOOHOO!!!!
moment when
> the old bedtime passed the child was FREE! Free to celebrate
being awake at
> 11:00 p.m.!!!
>
> So in a small model of exactly WHY it's good to give kids freedoms
while
> they're kids, so that they don't escape their bonds at the age of
18 (or whenever
> they leave for college or whatever) and fly as far and crazily
AWAY from what
> their families made them do or forbade them to do that they Juse
Go
> CRAZY!~!!!!!!
>
> To avoid "crazy," they need to be making lots of decisions earlier.
>
> To avoid food binge and irresponsibly rejecting all vegetables and
salads
> because now they don't "HAVE TO" eat them, let them turn them down
earlier. Let
> them eat ice cream for breakfast if they want to now, and they'll
probably
> really never imagine that it might be a cool act of maturity to
eat ice cream
> for breakfast. <g>
>
> To avoid adult avoidance of books and learning, don't make it a
powerless
> kid-thing to "have to" study from books and to prove learning.
>
> It's better for an eight year old to be wild at night than an
eighteen year
> old. But still, if you can make clearest above all else that
nighttime needs
> to be a quiet time, and that they can ONLY stay up if they
maintain that
> quiet, only then can they really start listening to their own
bodies to see if
> they're asleep. If sleep had been something children "had to" do
and now they're
> told they "don't have to," they're "being adult" by staying up.
>
> Their motive is not to be up because they want to be, but because
the gate
> was lifted and they rushed out.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Stacy Sargent
I could use some input from you wonderful folks on a related issue at
my home: my older DS (7 1/2) goes to bed when he's ready- usually it's
2:30 am or later. My younger DS (5 1/2) almost always goes to bed when
I do (which is around 11), and we snuggle and read and fall asleep
together. Sometimes my DS will come read with us, then get back up if
he is not ready for sleep. He is very considerate of noise and keeps
the tv volume low, turns out the lights and then crawls in bed with us,
or sometimes gets in his own bed after snuggling for just a little.
Sometimes he'll fall asleep in front of the tv (which is in the living
room) and my husband will carry him into bed.
This has been going fairly well, except on the nights younger DS wants
to stay up late with older DS- then they are loud. I have pretty much
said, since we started this, that younger DS needs to come to bed when
I do. Sometimes he'll really want to stay up, especially if he's had a
late nap, so I usually stay up later too, then entice him into bed with
a story and he usually comes to bed without complaint.
I started questioning myself, though, when reading some of the posts
related to Jill's question. Was I giving them too much choice at too
young of an age? I think I got my answer to that question when my
younger DS said, "but you said we could do whatever we wanted to do" in
response to my telling him it was time to go to bed last night. I need
to work on gradually letting them have more and more choices, with the
understanding that those choices might be reduced if certain conditions
aren't met. I let go of bedtimes and tv restrictions last February, in
an abrupt way, and I now know I could have been more gradual about it.
Also, I know it is me that has fostered this environment where they
think they can do whatever they want, and this has led to other
problems away from home (when trying to leave the park or a friend's
house, or unacceptable behavior in stores- roughhousing, being too
loud, and when I say stop they don't).
Back to the bedtime issue, older DS rarely remembers to brush his teeth
before he goes to bed. I need to help him more in the morning and
during the day to remember to brush, so at least he's brushing at least
once a day. Also, he often does not want to eat when he first gets up,
so he's eating his first food of the day often at 1 or 2 pm, then is
hungry all evening, and eats a lot after I've gone to bed. He selects
popsicles, popcorn, snacky stuff, and I'm concerned about his food
quality, especially when I'm not awake to help him get something he
might prefer if someone were up who could fix it for him (he eats
really well, usually, in terms of veggies, fruits, etc., and can choose
whatever he wants). Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, and
I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for bed.
He's not confident with the microwave yet, so won't heat up food by
himself. Also, I'm concerned that when he stays up really late he gets
8 to 10 hours of sleep, usually on the lower end of this range, but on
the nights he has gone to bed before midnight, he'll sleep 11 hours or
so, which has been his normal sleep amount for a couple of years (and
before we let go of bedtimes; he has always needed a lot sleep). Also,
if he's falling asleep in front of the tv and not getting himself to
bed, is he really listening to his body about sleep?
So, last night I told him he needed to come to bed when I did, the
situation was not working due to the toothbrushing and food and sleep
amount issues! I wish I had not changed things so abruptly, and with
no family discussion or input from him on the matter- my big screwup.
I said the same thing tonight, and he seemed fine when we made sure we
recorded his shows that were on late at night and he would be missing.
He slept 12 1/2 hours last night, and fell asleep tonight about 10:30
with little trouble. He still ate his first food at about 1 pm today,
and then had a good dinner and late snack. We were busy with Halloween
costume making today and tonight, so I did not do as good as job as I
could have getting him some extra food in there during the day.
One more thing to throw in- my DH really does not like it that older DS
stays up late- he feels he misses out on being with my son so much, as
DS is usually asleep all morning (my DH is semi-retired, so is home two
days of the workweek), and then stays up hours after my DH goes to bed
around 10 or 10:30. He very much would like us all to be going to bed
around the same time, so his sleep and the sleep of my older DS match
up better. Also, my DH and I enjoy going to church together, but this
is really tough when older DS has been up very late, and then
can't/won't get up at 8:30 to get ready for church. He really does not
enjoy church right now, but the rest of us do, and one of us ends up
having to stay home with older DS. I'm not expecting him to go every
Sunday, but once a month would be nice so DH and I could go together.
We are planning to look into Tivo, so we can more easily record the
shows he enjoys and make sure he doesn't miss his faves.
If you've read this far, thanks!!!! I know this is terribly long. Did
I yank back his self-regulating bedtime too abruptly, and should I let
go of that again, or would it be best to go with the bedtime for a
while, see how the recording of shows, toothbrushing, etc., goes, then
gradually let go of the bedtime (even if that is over the next couple
of years?) Any thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Stacy
my home: my older DS (7 1/2) goes to bed when he's ready- usually it's
2:30 am or later. My younger DS (5 1/2) almost always goes to bed when
I do (which is around 11), and we snuggle and read and fall asleep
together. Sometimes my DS will come read with us, then get back up if
he is not ready for sleep. He is very considerate of noise and keeps
the tv volume low, turns out the lights and then crawls in bed with us,
or sometimes gets in his own bed after snuggling for just a little.
Sometimes he'll fall asleep in front of the tv (which is in the living
room) and my husband will carry him into bed.
This has been going fairly well, except on the nights younger DS wants
to stay up late with older DS- then they are loud. I have pretty much
said, since we started this, that younger DS needs to come to bed when
I do. Sometimes he'll really want to stay up, especially if he's had a
late nap, so I usually stay up later too, then entice him into bed with
a story and he usually comes to bed without complaint.
I started questioning myself, though, when reading some of the posts
related to Jill's question. Was I giving them too much choice at too
young of an age? I think I got my answer to that question when my
younger DS said, "but you said we could do whatever we wanted to do" in
response to my telling him it was time to go to bed last night. I need
to work on gradually letting them have more and more choices, with the
understanding that those choices might be reduced if certain conditions
aren't met. I let go of bedtimes and tv restrictions last February, in
an abrupt way, and I now know I could have been more gradual about it.
Also, I know it is me that has fostered this environment where they
think they can do whatever they want, and this has led to other
problems away from home (when trying to leave the park or a friend's
house, or unacceptable behavior in stores- roughhousing, being too
loud, and when I say stop they don't).
Back to the bedtime issue, older DS rarely remembers to brush his teeth
before he goes to bed. I need to help him more in the morning and
during the day to remember to brush, so at least he's brushing at least
once a day. Also, he often does not want to eat when he first gets up,
so he's eating his first food of the day often at 1 or 2 pm, then is
hungry all evening, and eats a lot after I've gone to bed. He selects
popsicles, popcorn, snacky stuff, and I'm concerned about his food
quality, especially when I'm not awake to help him get something he
might prefer if someone were up who could fix it for him (he eats
really well, usually, in terms of veggies, fruits, etc., and can choose
whatever he wants). Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, and
I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for bed.
He's not confident with the microwave yet, so won't heat up food by
himself. Also, I'm concerned that when he stays up really late he gets
8 to 10 hours of sleep, usually on the lower end of this range, but on
the nights he has gone to bed before midnight, he'll sleep 11 hours or
so, which has been his normal sleep amount for a couple of years (and
before we let go of bedtimes; he has always needed a lot sleep). Also,
if he's falling asleep in front of the tv and not getting himself to
bed, is he really listening to his body about sleep?
So, last night I told him he needed to come to bed when I did, the
situation was not working due to the toothbrushing and food and sleep
amount issues! I wish I had not changed things so abruptly, and with
no family discussion or input from him on the matter- my big screwup.
I said the same thing tonight, and he seemed fine when we made sure we
recorded his shows that were on late at night and he would be missing.
He slept 12 1/2 hours last night, and fell asleep tonight about 10:30
with little trouble. He still ate his first food at about 1 pm today,
and then had a good dinner and late snack. We were busy with Halloween
costume making today and tonight, so I did not do as good as job as I
could have getting him some extra food in there during the day.
One more thing to throw in- my DH really does not like it that older DS
stays up late- he feels he misses out on being with my son so much, as
DS is usually asleep all morning (my DH is semi-retired, so is home two
days of the workweek), and then stays up hours after my DH goes to bed
around 10 or 10:30. He very much would like us all to be going to bed
around the same time, so his sleep and the sleep of my older DS match
up better. Also, my DH and I enjoy going to church together, but this
is really tough when older DS has been up very late, and then
can't/won't get up at 8:30 to get ready for church. He really does not
enjoy church right now, but the rest of us do, and one of us ends up
having to stay home with older DS. I'm not expecting him to go every
Sunday, but once a month would be nice so DH and I could go together.
We are planning to look into Tivo, so we can more easily record the
shows he enjoys and make sure he doesn't miss his faves.
If you've read this far, thanks!!!! I know this is terribly long. Did
I yank back his self-regulating bedtime too abruptly, and should I let
go of that again, or would it be best to go with the bedtime for a
while, see how the recording of shows, toothbrushing, etc., goes, then
gradually let go of the bedtime (even if that is over the next couple
of years?) Any thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Stacy
On Wednesday, October 26, 2005, at 03:12 PM, jillianmarie817 wrote:
> Yes, its definately transitional. Dh goes up with the littlest
> guys, they fall asleep with him. I do whatever I need to do for the
> next day, pick up around the house...the oldest two get something to
> eat, brush teeth, pj's if they want. Then we play a card game or
> read or watch tv shows, like I said I need them to stay up late for
> this time with them without the little guys around. (Plus, I get
> the morning with the younger two.) Lights are off or low, when I go
> to bed and they just stay up watching tv. If they just got a new
> game or something, then they'd probably play that. Usually they're
> in one of their rooms, sometimes they stay downstairs. They're not
> up running around.
>
> When they first came home from school, they'd stay up REAL late.
> Which was fine, because things mellowed out as they got used to it.
> I had said in the one post that it did feel like they are walking
> all over me, but when I think about it, it's more like consideration
> is the problem. I don't really care how late they stay up, I know
> they're okay...they aren't doing anything unsafe. It's just
> sometimes they get loud chatting or the tv is too loud.
>
> Just clarifying a little bit. Thanks for all the suggestion. I'm
> definately going to get headphones, for sure!
>
> Jill
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/26/05 6:14:54 AM, debra.rossing@m... writes:
>>
>>
>>> Pondering this a bit more and thought about something
> else....during
>>> that time when you are still awake and DH and the littlest ones
> are in
>>> bed, are you making it a transitional, gradually quieting down
> time or
>>> is it business as usual, cleaning, talking, playing, etc?
>>>
>>
>> I was thinking last night too, and Deb's ideas are good.
>>
>> I suppose a big part of why my kids have gone to sleep when sleepy
> but not
>> been wildly crazy is because every time they stayed up it was a
> one-shot (in a
>> way, when they were little). They would say they didn't want to
> go to bed
>> yet, when I was going to sleep with the nursing baby. Nursing a
> baby to sleep
>> isn't something you have to SAY ("Go to bed.") They Want to
> nurse, and they
>> fall asleep. Often the older sibling will fall asleep then too,
> because
>> there's soft music or a book being read, and that's EASY. But
> when one gets old
>> enough to want to stay up, and you make a deal with him, know what
> he's going
>> to be doing, and he knows if he isn't cool and mature he might be
> told no the
>> next time, then he's cool. And gradually from that developed the
> days when
>> Kirby might still not be home at 3:00 a.m. but I was sure he was
> being cool and
>> quiet, somewhere, and that he wasn't doing something crazy and
> irresponsible.
>>
>>
>> Because it came gradually, there was no celebratory WOOHOO!!!!
> moment when
>> the old bedtime passed the child was FREE! Free to celebrate
> being awake at
>> 11:00 p.m.!!!
>>
>> So in a small model of exactly WHY it's good to give kids freedoms
> while
>> they're kids, so that they don't escape their bonds at the age of
> 18 (or whenever
>> they leave for college or whatever) and fly as far and crazily
> AWAY from what
>> their families made them do or forbade them to do that they Juse
> Go
>> CRAZY!~!!!!!!
>>
>> To avoid "crazy," they need to be making lots of decisions earlier.
>>
>> To avoid food binge and irresponsibly rejecting all vegetables and
> salads
>> because now they don't "HAVE TO" eat them, let them turn them down
> earlier. Let
>> them eat ice cream for breakfast if they want to now, and they'll
> probably
>> really never imagine that it might be a cool act of maturity to
> eat ice cream
>> for breakfast. <g>
>>
>> To avoid adult avoidance of books and learning, don't make it a
> powerless
>> kid-thing to "have to" study from books and to prove learning.
>>
>> It's better for an eight year old to be wild at night than an
> eighteen year
>> old. But still, if you can make clearest above all else that
> nighttime needs
>> to be a quiet time, and that they can ONLY stay up if they
> maintain that
>> quiet, only then can they really start listening to their own
> bodies to see if
>> they're asleep. If sleep had been something children "had to" do
> and now they're
>> told they "don't have to," they're "being adult" by staying up.
>>
>> Their motive is not to be up because they want to be, but because
> the gate
>> was lifted and they rushed out.
>>
>> Sandra
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/05 2:40:49 AM, momasarg@... writes:
Lots of adults read themselves to sleep, or watch late night TV and turn the
TV off when they wake up later. <g> I don't think it's immoral.
When my kids were younger they were quite likely to fall asleep during a
movie, on the couch or on a futon in front of the TV. When they got older, 12
and so, they really wanted their own beds, but Holly still falls asleep to a CD,
and Kirby has a timer on his TV. Marty used to watch TV, but now just turns
the lights off and goes to sleep.
-=-I said the same thing tonight, and he seemed fine when we made sure we
recorded his shows that were on late at night and he would be missing. -=-
That made a big difference with us in lots of ways, recording things. Kids
were willing to risk being out of the house "too long" if we had set whichever
favorite show to record. And after a while they got to the point they might
not even watch the tapes at all (me too, for my own favorites a few years
back) and as they got older and more confident there would be reruns (and now,
confident they can see it on DVD later), they cared less.
-=-One more thing to throw in- my DH really does not like it that older DS
stays up late- he feels he misses out on being with my son so much, as
DS is usually asleep all morning (my DH is semi-retired, so is home two
days of the workweek), and then stays up hours after my DH goes to bed
around 10 or 10:30. -=-
Have you talked to your son about that? On the day before his dad's going
to be home, do you remind him to go to sleep earlier so he can hang out with
his dad?
-=- Also, my DH and I enjoy going to church together, but this
is really tough when older DS has been up very late, and then
can't/won't get up at 8:30 to get ready for church. He really does not
enjoy church right now, but the rest of us do, and one of us ends up
having to stay home with older DS. -=-
Can you get someone else to stay with him? If not, I'd just say "Until
you're old enough to stay home alone, you need to go with us, because dad really
wants to go." And on Saturday night, count back eight hours from when he
would need to get up and go to church, and tell him to go to bed then. If he's
too sleepy, he'll learn to go to sleep earlier.
If there's something scheduled, that should take priority over sleeping
whenever. There ARE reasons to sleep, and reasons sometimes to plan ahead about
sleeping.
Maybe you could tell your son that staying up as late as he can is as
arbitrary and inflexible as a 9:00 bedtime, and he's disrupting your life the same
way a traditional by-the-clock bedtime would disrubt his.
-=- I'm not expecting him to go every
Sunday, but once a month would be nice so DH and I could go together.
-=-
"Would be so nice" sounds so wistful for a thing you should JUST DO, I think.
It seems that making dibs on certain things you REALLY want to do as a
couple or as a family and telling him he just needs to go with you is not at ALL
unreasonable. Does he have scheduled things he goes to? (Lessons, scouts,
something you always take him to?) He shouldn't leave you hanging until the
last minute and have control of whether you get to go or not. You wouldn't
do that to him, would you?
-=- Did I yank back his self-regulating bedtime too abruptly, and should I
let
go of that again, or would it be best to go with the bedtime for a
while, see how the recording of shows, toothbrushing, etc., goes, then
gradually let go of the bedtime (even if that is over the next couple
of years?) -=-
It seems to me more than just a question of sudden or gradual. I don't
think moving to unschooling gradually is a good idea when the question involves
reading lessons or a curriculum or forced math. But in either case, I don't
think the parents (or ANY adults) should do something so drastic without really
understanding it themselves.
In the early stage of the idea of relaxing bedtimes, I think it starts with
people coming to discussions like these all tense and frustrated because they
can't control their kids, and saying "How can I make them go to bed on time?"
And the questions and suggestions might involve "Why?" or "You don't HAVE to
have a time," or "Which is more important--rules or your relationship?"
All those ideas are good to consider, but to just register "some people don't
have a bedtime" and declaring that now YOU don't have a bedtime seems to me to
be replacing one "rule" with another.
Your rule now seems to be that parents won't tell your older child when to go
to sleep. His "right" to stay up is the priority, more important than
church, more important than being with his dad.
(On the other hand, does his dad do cool things with him on those days home?
To expect a child to be up and available just in case dad takes the notion
to hang out with him doesn't seem sufficient reason to get up.)
Our staying up always involved the child being old enough to stay up safely
and quietly, or staying awake, but being in a bed (or having the bed all made
and available and close by) and having a long video and some drinks and snacks
at hand.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Also,==============
> if he's falling asleep in front of the tv and not getting himself to
> bed, is he really listening to his body about sleep?
>
Lots of adults read themselves to sleep, or watch late night TV and turn the
TV off when they wake up later. <g> I don't think it's immoral.
When my kids were younger they were quite likely to fall asleep during a
movie, on the couch or on a futon in front of the TV. When they got older, 12
and so, they really wanted their own beds, but Holly still falls asleep to a CD,
and Kirby has a timer on his TV. Marty used to watch TV, but now just turns
the lights off and goes to sleep.
-=-I said the same thing tonight, and he seemed fine when we made sure we
recorded his shows that were on late at night and he would be missing. -=-
That made a big difference with us in lots of ways, recording things. Kids
were willing to risk being out of the house "too long" if we had set whichever
favorite show to record. And after a while they got to the point they might
not even watch the tapes at all (me too, for my own favorites a few years
back) and as they got older and more confident there would be reruns (and now,
confident they can see it on DVD later), they cared less.
-=-One more thing to throw in- my DH really does not like it that older DS
stays up late- he feels he misses out on being with my son so much, as
DS is usually asleep all morning (my DH is semi-retired, so is home two
days of the workweek), and then stays up hours after my DH goes to bed
around 10 or 10:30. -=-
Have you talked to your son about that? On the day before his dad's going
to be home, do you remind him to go to sleep earlier so he can hang out with
his dad?
-=- Also, my DH and I enjoy going to church together, but this
is really tough when older DS has been up very late, and then
can't/won't get up at 8:30 to get ready for church. He really does not
enjoy church right now, but the rest of us do, and one of us ends up
having to stay home with older DS. -=-
Can you get someone else to stay with him? If not, I'd just say "Until
you're old enough to stay home alone, you need to go with us, because dad really
wants to go." And on Saturday night, count back eight hours from when he
would need to get up and go to church, and tell him to go to bed then. If he's
too sleepy, he'll learn to go to sleep earlier.
If there's something scheduled, that should take priority over sleeping
whenever. There ARE reasons to sleep, and reasons sometimes to plan ahead about
sleeping.
Maybe you could tell your son that staying up as late as he can is as
arbitrary and inflexible as a 9:00 bedtime, and he's disrupting your life the same
way a traditional by-the-clock bedtime would disrubt his.
-=- I'm not expecting him to go every
Sunday, but once a month would be nice so DH and I could go together.
-=-
"Would be so nice" sounds so wistful for a thing you should JUST DO, I think.
It seems that making dibs on certain things you REALLY want to do as a
couple or as a family and telling him he just needs to go with you is not at ALL
unreasonable. Does he have scheduled things he goes to? (Lessons, scouts,
something you always take him to?) He shouldn't leave you hanging until the
last minute and have control of whether you get to go or not. You wouldn't
do that to him, would you?
-=- Did I yank back his self-regulating bedtime too abruptly, and should I
let
go of that again, or would it be best to go with the bedtime for a
while, see how the recording of shows, toothbrushing, etc., goes, then
gradually let go of the bedtime (even if that is over the next couple
of years?) -=-
It seems to me more than just a question of sudden or gradual. I don't
think moving to unschooling gradually is a good idea when the question involves
reading lessons or a curriculum or forced math. But in either case, I don't
think the parents (or ANY adults) should do something so drastic without really
understanding it themselves.
In the early stage of the idea of relaxing bedtimes, I think it starts with
people coming to discussions like these all tense and frustrated because they
can't control their kids, and saying "How can I make them go to bed on time?"
And the questions and suggestions might involve "Why?" or "You don't HAVE to
have a time," or "Which is more important--rules or your relationship?"
All those ideas are good to consider, but to just register "some people don't
have a bedtime" and declaring that now YOU don't have a bedtime seems to me to
be replacing one "rule" with another.
Your rule now seems to be that parents won't tell your older child when to go
to sleep. His "right" to stay up is the priority, more important than
church, more important than being with his dad.
(On the other hand, does his dad do cool things with him on those days home?
To expect a child to be up and available just in case dad takes the notion
to hang out with him doesn't seem sufficient reason to get up.)
Our staying up always involved the child being old enough to stay up safely
and quietly, or staying awake, but being in a bed (or having the bed all made
and available and close by) and having a long video and some drinks and snacks
at hand.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** I think I got my answer to that question when my
younger DS said, "but you said we could do whatever we wanted to do"**
My answer would include "... as long as you are considerate of other
people."
Being able to see things from the point of view of a different person is
a skill that some kids develop earlier than others. Practice probably
helps. Perhaps if a child is too young to understand how other people
feel when they are woken up (or other problems), they are too young to
make some of these behavior choices independently.
Even older kids and teenagers need guidance from parents.
** Back to the bedtime issue, older DS rarely remembers to brush his teeth
before he goes to bed. I need to help him more in the morning and
during the day to remember to brush, so at least he's brushing at least
once a day. **
My 11 year old is more of a night person than I am, but he usually
doesn't stay up more than an hour after I go to bed. We encourage him
to brush his teeth and take his medicine when we are doing our teeth and
medicine.
**Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, and
I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for bed. **
I relate to that. I'm not enthusiastic about cooking after 10, because
10 is the time I like to go to bed.
** We are planning to look into Tivo, so we can more easily record the
shows he enjoys and make sure he doesn't miss his faves.**
We really like being able to record TV shows on a PVR thing like TiVo.
It's handy.
Just my thoughts,
Betsy
Betsy
younger DS said, "but you said we could do whatever we wanted to do"**
My answer would include "... as long as you are considerate of other
people."
Being able to see things from the point of view of a different person is
a skill that some kids develop earlier than others. Practice probably
helps. Perhaps if a child is too young to understand how other people
feel when they are woken up (or other problems), they are too young to
make some of these behavior choices independently.
Even older kids and teenagers need guidance from parents.
** Back to the bedtime issue, older DS rarely remembers to brush his teeth
before he goes to bed. I need to help him more in the morning and
during the day to remember to brush, so at least he's brushing at least
once a day. **
My 11 year old is more of a night person than I am, but he usually
doesn't stay up more than an hour after I go to bed. We encourage him
to brush his teeth and take his medicine when we are doing our teeth and
medicine.
**Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, and
I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for bed. **
I relate to that. I'm not enthusiastic about cooking after 10, because
10 is the time I like to go to bed.
** We are planning to look into Tivo, so we can more easily record the
shows he enjoys and make sure he doesn't miss his faves.**
We really like being able to record TV shows on a PVR thing like TiVo.
It's handy.
Just my thoughts,
Betsy
Betsy
Deb
--- In [email protected], Stacy Sargent
<momasarg@b...> wrote:
it's simply a desire for my focused attention more than food need (and
sometimes it's food and sometimes it's both). Some things we have
done:
I'll 'announce' when I'm going to sleep and that if anyone wants
anything, now is the time to ask. I'm the wage earner in the family so
I need to be up early (I'm usually at my desk around 7:45 am), DH and
DS can sleep however long they want generally, so DS knows that when I
say I'm going to sleep, I am. If I'm heading to bed but planning to
read or watch TV, I'll note that as well since I'll be awake a while
longer. Once I'm asleep, I'm asleep - unless there's vomiting or
bloodshed or something going on.
We keep readily available foods handy - snack size puddings are a
current favorite, other popular things include blocks of cheese and a
manual wire slicer (the wire slicer is nice since it can't cut skin,
just cheese), single serving boxes of dry cereal, pre-cut chunks of
melon in single serving sized ziplocks, baby bel cheese, graham
crackers with or without peanut butter. In the last 6 months or so,
he's gotten more comfortable with the microwave so he can reheat pasta
or mac & cheese or make an omelette (our microwave has a setting
called Omelette so we don't have to worry about properly cooking the
eggs)
Sometimes, especially if he has eaten a bunch since dinner, I'll
double check with him on his hunger level. I might postpone going to
get food with him until a commercial or end of a chapter or something
reasonably short, definite time (not random indefinite 'wait') -
sometimes he's still wanting food then, other times he's gotten
involved in something else *with* me (snuggling, talking, reading,
watching TV, playing a computer game with DH, etc) and drops the food
request because what he was 'hungry' for was the attention, not the
calories.
Sometimes DH will go take care of it if DS wants food and I'm asleep
or almost asleep. So that's another alternative - it doesn't always
have to be you getting up (if you've got a spouse or SO that is).
Bottom line is that there are more ways to address this than saying No
or always getting up.
--Deb
<momasarg@b...> wrote:
> Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, andThis is something that I've experienced with DS (7)- and sometimes
> I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for >bed.
> He's not confident with the microwave yet, so won't heat up food >by
> himself.
it's simply a desire for my focused attention more than food need (and
sometimes it's food and sometimes it's both). Some things we have
done:
I'll 'announce' when I'm going to sleep and that if anyone wants
anything, now is the time to ask. I'm the wage earner in the family so
I need to be up early (I'm usually at my desk around 7:45 am), DH and
DS can sleep however long they want generally, so DS knows that when I
say I'm going to sleep, I am. If I'm heading to bed but planning to
read or watch TV, I'll note that as well since I'll be awake a while
longer. Once I'm asleep, I'm asleep - unless there's vomiting or
bloodshed or something going on.
We keep readily available foods handy - snack size puddings are a
current favorite, other popular things include blocks of cheese and a
manual wire slicer (the wire slicer is nice since it can't cut skin,
just cheese), single serving boxes of dry cereal, pre-cut chunks of
melon in single serving sized ziplocks, baby bel cheese, graham
crackers with or without peanut butter. In the last 6 months or so,
he's gotten more comfortable with the microwave so he can reheat pasta
or mac & cheese or make an omelette (our microwave has a setting
called Omelette so we don't have to worry about properly cooking the
eggs)
Sometimes, especially if he has eaten a bunch since dinner, I'll
double check with him on his hunger level. I might postpone going to
get food with him until a commercial or end of a chapter or something
reasonably short, definite time (not random indefinite 'wait') -
sometimes he's still wanting food then, other times he's gotten
involved in something else *with* me (snuggling, talking, reading,
watching TV, playing a computer game with DH, etc) and drops the food
request because what he was 'hungry' for was the attention, not the
calories.
Sometimes DH will go take care of it if DS wants food and I'm asleep
or almost asleep. So that's another alternative - it doesn't always
have to be you getting up (if you've got a spouse or SO that is).
Bottom line is that there are more ways to address this than saying No
or always getting up.
--Deb
Stacy Sargent
Thank you so much for the replies. I need to work to be sure he has
some good snacks readily available, and yes, my DH will help out, but
he is the wage earner in our family so he needs to be asleep before I
do most nights.
I have mixed feelings about the church issue- I do not want to force
church on either of my children, but I think I've gotten out of balance
on the issue of choice. His refusal to go means I or my husband can't
go at this point (we don't have anyone available to stay with him on a
regular basis Sunday mornings). So, I can see letting him know we are
going as a family, and as Sandra suggested, until he can stay home
alone he needs to go with us. This is the only regular family activity
we do that we don't all enjoy- our other family outings are things
everyone loves (camping, movies, parks, etc.).
"We encourage him
to brush his teeth and take his medicine when we are doing our teeth and
medicine."
He will brush with me, no problem. It's when he stays up several hours
after I do and snacks that he forgets.
"On the day before his dad's going
to be home, do you remind him to go to sleep earlier so he can hang out
with
his dad? And on Saturday night, count back eight hours from when he
would need to get up and go to church, and tell him to go to bed then.
If he's
too sleepy, he'll learn to go to sleep earlier."
I've tried this, and he will say he is just not sleepy. I can
understand this- if I am used to going to sleep at a certain time, say
11 pm, often times I am just not sleepy earlier in the evening. In his
case, after several nights of staying up until 2 or 3 am and then when
I ask him to go to bed at 11 pm or midnight, he will say he just isn't
sleepy, will lie in bed a while, I'll give him a backrub and lay with
him, but most of the time he will get back up.
"Your rule now seems to be that parents won't tell your older child
when to go
to sleep. His "right" to stay up is the priority, more important than
church, more important than being with his dad."
I think you're right, Sandra. Again, I think in my zeal to let go of
controls on him, I have let the pendulum swing completely to the
opposite end (I don't know if you remember, but you were gracious
enough to correspond via email with me last February when I was
struggling with tv and letting go of controls on it. Along with
dropping the tv controls, I dropped the bedtime controls.). While he
is still young and needs someone home with him and fixing him the
majority of his meals and making sure he's keeping up with oral care,
he probably needs to be more in sync with us on the sleep times. I
know also he misses being with me and his dad, and would love for me to
stay up and watch with him. With a younger child who wakes up early
and wanting to be with my husband, I just don't want to do this on a
regular basis. He has wanted to stay up all night, until the sun comes
up, and the other night I said let's do it. We made it until 4 am, and
then he said let's go to bed. I kind of had my second wind by that
time and I think I could have made it, but I readily agreed. We
snuggled a lot that night and I got to watch some of his favorite shows
with him and we both really enjoyed being together. So, I know he
really needs this time with us, and he is not getting it when he is
alone and awake hours after the rest of the house has gone to bed.
Any other thoughts? I guess I am still sorting out in my mind to some
extent the issue of control versus family lifestyle/rights, needs, and
wants of everyone being considered.
Thanks so much,
Stacy
some good snacks readily available, and yes, my DH will help out, but
he is the wage earner in our family so he needs to be asleep before I
do most nights.
I have mixed feelings about the church issue- I do not want to force
church on either of my children, but I think I've gotten out of balance
on the issue of choice. His refusal to go means I or my husband can't
go at this point (we don't have anyone available to stay with him on a
regular basis Sunday mornings). So, I can see letting him know we are
going as a family, and as Sandra suggested, until he can stay home
alone he needs to go with us. This is the only regular family activity
we do that we don't all enjoy- our other family outings are things
everyone loves (camping, movies, parks, etc.).
"We encourage him
to brush his teeth and take his medicine when we are doing our teeth and
medicine."
He will brush with me, no problem. It's when he stays up several hours
after I do and snacks that he forgets.
"On the day before his dad's going
to be home, do you remind him to go to sleep earlier so he can hang out
with
his dad? And on Saturday night, count back eight hours from when he
would need to get up and go to church, and tell him to go to bed then.
If he's
too sleepy, he'll learn to go to sleep earlier."
I've tried this, and he will say he is just not sleepy. I can
understand this- if I am used to going to sleep at a certain time, say
11 pm, often times I am just not sleepy earlier in the evening. In his
case, after several nights of staying up until 2 or 3 am and then when
I ask him to go to bed at 11 pm or midnight, he will say he just isn't
sleepy, will lie in bed a while, I'll give him a backrub and lay with
him, but most of the time he will get back up.
"Your rule now seems to be that parents won't tell your older child
when to go
to sleep. His "right" to stay up is the priority, more important than
church, more important than being with his dad."
I think you're right, Sandra. Again, I think in my zeal to let go of
controls on him, I have let the pendulum swing completely to the
opposite end (I don't know if you remember, but you were gracious
enough to correspond via email with me last February when I was
struggling with tv and letting go of controls on it. Along with
dropping the tv controls, I dropped the bedtime controls.). While he
is still young and needs someone home with him and fixing him the
majority of his meals and making sure he's keeping up with oral care,
he probably needs to be more in sync with us on the sleep times. I
know also he misses being with me and his dad, and would love for me to
stay up and watch with him. With a younger child who wakes up early
and wanting to be with my husband, I just don't want to do this on a
regular basis. He has wanted to stay up all night, until the sun comes
up, and the other night I said let's do it. We made it until 4 am, and
then he said let's go to bed. I kind of had my second wind by that
time and I think I could have made it, but I readily agreed. We
snuggled a lot that night and I got to watch some of his favorite shows
with him and we both really enjoyed being together. So, I know he
really needs this time with us, and he is not getting it when he is
alone and awake hours after the rest of the house has gone to bed.
Any other thoughts? I guess I am still sorting out in my mind to some
extent the issue of control versus family lifestyle/rights, needs, and
wants of everyone being considered.
Thanks so much,
Stacy
On Thursday, October 27, 2005, at 02:12 PM, Deb wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Stacy Sargent
> <momasarg@b...> wrote:
>
>> Or, he asks me to cook him food at 10 or 11pm, and
>> I'm just not in the mood to cook when I'm tired and ready for >bed.
>> He's not confident with the microwave yet, so won't heat up food >by
>> himself.
> This is something that I've experienced with DS (7)- and sometimes
> it's simply a desire for my focused attention more than food need (and
> sometimes it's food and sometimes it's both). Some things we have
> done:
>
> I'll 'announce' when I'm going to sleep and that if anyone wants
> anything, now is the time to ask. I'm the wage earner in the family so
> I need to be up early (I'm usually at my desk around 7:45 am), DH and
> DS can sleep however long they want generally, so DS knows that when I
> say I'm going to sleep, I am. If I'm heading to bed but planning to
> read or watch TV, I'll note that as well since I'll be awake a while
> longer. Once I'm asleep, I'm asleep - unless there's vomiting or
> bloodshed or something going on.
>
> We keep readily available foods handy - snack size puddings are a
> current favorite, other popular things include blocks of cheese and a
> manual wire slicer (the wire slicer is nice since it can't cut skin,
> just cheese), single serving boxes of dry cereal, pre-cut chunks of
> melon in single serving sized ziplocks, baby bel cheese, graham
> crackers with or without peanut butter. In the last 6 months or so,
> he's gotten more comfortable with the microwave so he can reheat pasta
> or mac & cheese or make an omelette (our microwave has a setting
> called Omelette so we don't have to worry about properly cooking the
> eggs)
>
> Sometimes, especially if he has eaten a bunch since dinner, I'll
> double check with him on his hunger level. I might postpone going to
> get food with him until a commercial or end of a chapter or something
> reasonably short, definite time (not random indefinite 'wait') -
> sometimes he's still wanting food then, other times he's gotten
> involved in something else *with* me (snuggling, talking, reading,
> watching TV, playing a computer game with DH, etc) and drops the food
> request because what he was 'hungry' for was the attention, not the
> calories.
>
> Sometimes DH will go take care of it if DS wants food and I'm asleep
> or almost asleep. So that's another alternative - it doesn't always
> have to be you getting up (if you've got a spouse or SO that is).
>
> Bottom line is that there are more ways to address this than saying No
> or always getting up.
>
> --Deb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> <http://www.unschooling.info>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/27/05 7:52:37 PM, momasarg@... writes:
maybe?)?
Puzzle books?
Something quiet and unobtrusive?
Can you stop at one of his favorite lunch or snack places on the way home?
(Or breakfast, depending how early <g>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> -=-I have mixed feelings about the church issue- I do not want to forceCan he take a book, or something to draw on (not big paper, but a little pad
> church on either of my children,-=-
>
maybe?)?
Puzzle books?
Something quiet and unobtrusive?
Can you stop at one of his favorite lunch or snack places on the way home?
(Or breakfast, depending how early <g>)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
headphones and the a/c adapter, we sit near an outlet in the back),
sketchpad, markers, pens, lined paper notebook, a couple of misc
items depending on what he wants to bring (maybe a book or two or a
pair of matchbox cars, or whatever), plus a bottle of water and some
snacking materials (like baby bel cheese or cut out cheese shapes -
provolone slices and mini cookie cutters work great - maybe cookies
or snack bars or fruit snacks or graham crackers, we discuss what to
put in and I'll also put in the occasional extra surprise item as
well). And, too, we stop someplace for lunch each week - not always
his favorite place but we usually pick someplace that is reasonable
for all, sometimes a favorite sometimes it's just 'ok' (mostly
because we do this every week and we all like a bit of variety now
and again - DS would happily go to the same place every week but DH
and I would get a bit tired of it, so we discuss and discuss and
come to agreement - often it's not the place, it's a specific item
DS is wanting and as long as he can get that, he's okay anywhere).
And sometimes one of us will stay home. Sometimes it's a matter of
habit (or getting out of the habit) - we were away at the conference
for one Sunday then home with the flu the following Sunday, and the
next Sunday, DS said he didn't want to go to church. I sat and
talked with him, giving him info on my feelings, finding out what he
was thinking/feeling, and since he can't stay home alone at this
point, coming to church would have to happen - but we then moved
right to him choosing what to pack in his bag and discussing where
we'd go for lunch and all instead of dwelling on the negatives OR
trying to argue him into changing his feelings. He still didn't -
feel- like it, but he recognized that he couldn't stay home alone
and we did as much as we could (snacks, playthings, etc) to make it
as comfortable for him to come along as possible - and making
specific plans for lunch and afternoon activities (playing Age of
Empires with DH for instance).
--Deb
>We -always- have DS' "Church bag" - it contains his Gameboy (with
>
> In a message dated 10/27/05 7:52:37 PM, momasarg@b... writes:
>
>
> > -=-I have mixed feelings about the church issue- I do not want
>to force
> > church on either of my children,-=-
> >
> Can he take a book, or something to draw on (not big paper, but a
>little pad
> maybe?)?
> Puzzle books?
>
> Something quiet and unobtrusive?
>
> Can you stop at one of his favorite lunch or snack places on the
>way home?
> (Or breakfast, depending how early <g>)
>
> Sandra
>
>
headphones and the a/c adapter, we sit near an outlet in the back),
sketchpad, markers, pens, lined paper notebook, a couple of misc
items depending on what he wants to bring (maybe a book or two or a
pair of matchbox cars, or whatever), plus a bottle of water and some
snacking materials (like baby bel cheese or cut out cheese shapes -
provolone slices and mini cookie cutters work great - maybe cookies
or snack bars or fruit snacks or graham crackers, we discuss what to
put in and I'll also put in the occasional extra surprise item as
well). And, too, we stop someplace for lunch each week - not always
his favorite place but we usually pick someplace that is reasonable
for all, sometimes a favorite sometimes it's just 'ok' (mostly
because we do this every week and we all like a bit of variety now
and again - DS would happily go to the same place every week but DH
and I would get a bit tired of it, so we discuss and discuss and
come to agreement - often it's not the place, it's a specific item
DS is wanting and as long as he can get that, he's okay anywhere).
And sometimes one of us will stay home. Sometimes it's a matter of
habit (or getting out of the habit) - we were away at the conference
for one Sunday then home with the flu the following Sunday, and the
next Sunday, DS said he didn't want to go to church. I sat and
talked with him, giving him info on my feelings, finding out what he
was thinking/feeling, and since he can't stay home alone at this
point, coming to church would have to happen - but we then moved
right to him choosing what to pack in his bag and discussing where
we'd go for lunch and all instead of dwelling on the negatives OR
trying to argue him into changing his feelings. He still didn't -
feel- like it, but he recognized that he couldn't stay home alone
and we did as much as we could (snacks, playthings, etc) to make it
as comfortable for him to come along as possible - and making
specific plans for lunch and afternoon activities (playing Age of
Empires with DH for instance).
--Deb
Brandie
In a message dated 10/27/05 2:40:49 AM,
momasarg@... writes:
that sleeping must equal a bed is the same thing as
saying that eating equals a fork. It might not...you
can eat food with your fingers, with a spoon,
chopsticks, etc. You can sleep in a recliner, on a
floor, on a sofa, in a carseat.
If you don't connect the activity of sleeping with one
particular piece of furniture then can help you to
just see the need (being sleepy) with the action
(sleeping).
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
momasarg@... writes:
> Also,A bed isn't the only place to sleep though. The idea
> if he's falling asleep in front of the tv and not
> getting himself to
> bed, is he really listening to his body about sleep?
>
that sleeping must equal a bed is the same thing as
saying that eating equals a fork. It might not...you
can eat food with your fingers, with a spoon,
chopsticks, etc. You can sleep in a recliner, on a
floor, on a sofa, in a carseat.
If you don't connect the activity of sleeping with one
particular piece of furniture then can help you to
just see the need (being sleepy) with the action
(sleeping).
Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/30/05 7:44:39 AM, scrapdiva73@... writes:
When our children were babies and others would ask "when does he go to bed?"
Keith used to say "About half an hour after he goes to sleep."
For the first MANY years of their lives, our kids fell asleep being nursed,
or being held or rocked by dad or mom, or in the car on the way home from
something fun. They slept because they were sleepy, not because we told them to.
So when they got older, they would fall asleep near us, happily.
We never minded putting them in the bed after they were asleep. It was rare
they went to sleep in the bed. They would wake up there (or in our bed, or
on the couch or on a floor bed) knowing only that they had been put there and
covered up by somone who loved them.
Going to sleep wasn't about "going to bed."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Also,Good point.
> > if he's falling asleep in front of the tv and not
> > getting himself to
> > bed, is he really listening to his body about sleep?
> >
>
>
> -=-A bed isn't the only place to sleep though. The idea
> that sleeping must equal a bed is the same thing as
> saying that eating equals a fork.-=-
>
When our children were babies and others would ask "when does he go to bed?"
Keith used to say "About half an hour after he goes to sleep."
For the first MANY years of their lives, our kids fell asleep being nursed,
or being held or rocked by dad or mom, or in the car on the way home from
something fun. They slept because they were sleepy, not because we told them to.
So when they got older, they would fall asleep near us, happily.
We never minded putting them in the bed after they were asleep. It was rare
they went to sleep in the bed. They would wake up there (or in our bed, or
on the couch or on a floor bed) knowing only that they had been put there and
covered up by somone who loved them.
Going to sleep wasn't about "going to bed."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]